Avid XO Trail Brakes - Noisy Shudder - HELP

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Avid XO Trail Brakes - Noisy Shudder - HELP
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flag urinalmint
O+
Posted: Sep 21, 2013 at 14:40 Quote
whattheheel wrote:
Get jagwire pads that have the painted back on them or get out your wife's fingernail paint and paint the backside of the pads. Or try some lithium grease on the back of the pads.
Thanks, I'll try this. But seriously, wtf? Who wants to go through all this shit to try to stop his/her bike? It's a joke.
flag whattheheel
Posted: Sep 21, 2013 at 14:42 Quote
Just paint the back of the pads man. That or just make your bike shop warranty that shit for you. It happens on some bikes, that's why I don't buy Special ed.
flag urinalmint
O+
Posted: Sep 21, 2013 at 14:44 Quote
whattheheel wrote:
Just paint the back of the pads man. That or just make your bike shop warranty that shit for you. It happens on some bikes, that's why I don't buy Special ed.
The shop owner wants me to just ride it until the snow flies and then he'll send them in for warranty. Until then I'll try the paint. Thanks.
flag Holmeren
Posted: Oct 2, 2013 at 13:17 Quote
Same issue...
Never had this before (used Avid Elixir 7 9 ish for 2 years)
The pads are also gone thin VERY fast!
I will try and paint them but with purple or monster green that is what the missus got.
Wink
flag urinalmint
O+
Posted: Oct 2, 2013 at 19:39 Quote
I picked up a set of Code R's and dropped the Elixir 5's off at the shop. I'm done messing around with them. The nail polish seemed to help but after a few rides the shaking and grinding was back as bad as before. The pads look fine, the brakes still look new, but they just don't get it done. It's in the shop's hands now.
flag shuriken141
Posted: Nov 1, 2013 at 5:47 Quote
Wow the amount of problems I see with Avids are crazy
flag JoeManz
Posted: Nov 18, 2013 at 5:41 Quote
Getting the bed in process correct is critical to how avids in particular function. I had the same issue with my trails after i just jumped straight on the bike without performing any sort of bedding in.

To get rid of it I heavily abraded the rotors and pads with P120 paper to the point where there were no witnesses of use, i.e. all the marks were from the abrasive rather than the scoring/lines you get from use. Full degrease with brake cleaner or IPA and then followed the bedding in procedure set by SRAM. From memory 20 hard stops without coming to a complete standstill, its important to keep the wheels turning and then 10 lighter lower speed stops.
flag gabbatron
Posted: Feb 11, 2014 at 18:34 Quote
I've got the same issue with my Avid Trail 9s (basically the same as X0) on the rear of my 2014 Specialized Enduro Expert Carbon 29. The rear brake under hard braking vibrates so bad and the noise is horrible and only gets worse the more I pull the lever.

I performed Avid's bed in procedure on the first day I got the bike. I never noticed there was a problem until I hit a trail that require hard braking downhill braking.

I cleaned the pads and rotors with Isopropyl Alcohol and religned the calliper. After a quick test in my street they seemed fine but the issue came back first ride.

I spoke to my LBS and they are sending another set of pads. From reading this, I don't think it is going to help. Something that might help is this solid sweep rotor from Avid:
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/au/en/avid-solid-sweep-g3-rotor-specialized-/rp-prod74216

So far this seems to be the summary of methods to try and resolve:


- try rotating the caliper slightly by putting a washer on just one of the mounts.
- try paint the back of the pads with nail varnish/similar or some of the brake squeal killer stuff if you find some
- Either paint the back of the pads or find some teflon grease type stuff on the back of pads.
- Engineers at Specialized who informed him it was not the brake but instead a design factor with the cable routing and the super light aluminum seat stays that caused the extreme noise and vibrations. He said to align the housing so it faces down on an angle (roughly 45 degrees or so) and then just leave it attached to the chain stay and remove the housing clip on the seat stay.
- The root cause of the problem however is the rotors, The shape causes the pad to move more then typical creating a more sever noise/vibration/shutter then typical and in many cases the solution is a new set of organic pads and a different rotor ( the more uniform it is in shape the better.) In the Giants I worked on it was caused by the specific avd G3 rotor causing the pads to move forward and backward at a frequency almost identical to that of the frames harmonic resonance.

This guy says what worked for him was having a straighter brake line:
http://specialized.desk.com/customer/portal/questions/1280133-frame-vibration-problem-with-brakes

I'm going to give all of this a go and will report back.
flag dieggman
Posted: Feb 24, 2014 at 13:45 Quote
I had the same problem, tried a lot of rotors, but the only and one solution was the Hope Rotors.....

gabbatron wrote:
I've got the same issue with my Avid Trail 9s (basically the same as X0) on the rear of my 2014 Specialized Enduro Expert Carbon 29. The rear brake under hard braking vibrates so bad and the noise is horrible and only gets worse the more I pull the lever.

I performed Avid's bed in procedure on the first day I got the bike. I never noticed there was a problem until I hit a trail that require hard braking downhill braking.

I cleaned the pads and rotors with Isopropyl Alcohol and religned the calliper. After a quick test in my street they seemed fine but the issue came back first ride.

I spoke to my LBS and they are sending another set of pads. From reading this, I don't think it is going to help. Something that might help is this solid sweep rotor from Avid:
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/au/en/avid-solid-sweep-g3-rotor-specialized-/rp-prod74216

So far this seems to be the summary of methods to try and resolve:


- try rotating the caliper slightly by putting a washer on just one of the mounts.
- try paint the back of the pads with nail varnish/similar or some of the brake squeal killer stuff if you find some
- Either paint the back of the pads or find some teflon grease type stuff on the back of pads.
- Engineers at Specialized who informed him it was not the brake but instead a design factor with the cable routing and the super light aluminum seat stays that caused the extreme noise and vibrations. He said to align the housing so it faces down on an angle (roughly 45 degrees or so) and then just leave it attached to the chain stay and remove the housing clip on the seat stay.
- The root cause of the problem however is the rotors, The shape causes the pad to move more then typical creating a more sever noise/vibration/shutter then typical and in many cases the solution is a new set of organic pads and a different rotor ( the more uniform it is in shape the better.) In the Giants I worked on it was caused by the specific avd G3 rotor causing the pads to move forward and backward at a frequency almost identical to that of the frames harmonic resonance.

This guy says what worked for him was having a straighter brake line:
http://specialized.desk.com/customer/portal/questions/1280133-frame-vibration-problem-with-brakes

I'm going to give all of this a go and will report back.
flag gabbatron
Posted: Mar 10, 2014 at 16:59 Quote
I read in an MBR mag edition where the article author was having the same issues with the rear brakes on a new Stumpjumper. A reader of the mag contacted him and told him to wrap electrical tape around the rear brake hose and chain stay.

I tried this yesterday and rode the two trail segments which caused my rear Avid 9 Trail brake to go wild and the result is no more crazy loud vibrating shudder. Admittedly it was only one ride so I will report back again but it used to happen on every ride on these two segments. I should note that because others had reported success by simply unclipping the rear brake hose from the seatstay, mine is also unclipped. As for the wrapping I held the rear hose against the chainstay firmly while tightly wrapping the tape around the hose and the chainstay for a good 20cm, I reversed back up the line again so that there is two layers.
flag Dautist
Posted: Mar 31, 2014 at 13:21 Quote
Hi,

I'm another "happy" user of 2013 SJ FSR Expert EVO29er, bike itself is great but this f#####g noise and vibrations drives me mad and takes away all the pleasure of going down. I've read here about porposed back up but could not find a feedback with firm solution. Question to gabbatron, how is electrical tape doing after few rides ? is it still working ? by the way, could please drop me a few photos of where exacly you applied for warping ?

Cheers
flag travisink
Posted: Apr 22, 2014 at 23:22 Quote
Listen guys. The main issue with excessive noise, vibration and pad wear on Avid brakes comes from harmonic resonance caused by each pad oscillating in sympathetic vibration with the other. This is a super simple issue with a super simple fix. Simply mix pad compounds in each caliper. I like using a metallic on one side with a semi metallic on the other. Because of slightly different vibration frequencies from each compound, the oscillations are better kept out of phase, therefore no more "turkey call" effect and reduced wear on pads from stutter. Use this front and back to improve both feel and modulation as well.
This video shows how certain frequencies cause massive sympathetic vibrations in a drop of mercury. This is what your brakes are doing that is making you crazy.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/13.7/2014/04/22/305898703/mercury-moves-in-mysterious-ways?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20140422
flag iffy
Posted: Apr 23, 2014 at 1:03 Quote
worth a go, nice tip! the issue only seems to happen a lot more with Avids Elixir so there has to be a cause specific to that design I think.
flag travisink
Posted: Apr 23, 2014 at 10:31 Quote
Yes, the Elixir model seems to have this issue more than others. I suspect Avid has inadvertently designed a caliper that excels at generating this harmonic phenomenon. Most likely has a lot to do with the internal shape within the caliper.

 


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