Dude. Don't try to make a rational argument using religion. You can't justify your belief in christianity. It's illogical in all senses of the word. If you want to believe, fine, but don't try to justify it.
See, storey book, and fact crosses over here, shit like that probably happened, but jebus walking on water,, Noah's ark, and all that probably didnt.
Flame retardant suit, engage.......yes, I believe Jesus walked on water because I believe He was/is God. Also believe Noah's ark really did happen. As well as the whole rising from dead thing, kinda made Him stand out.
Obviously I believe very different things from a lot of people, but so is life. However, I'm not going to be a pushover and say "well this is what's right for me, and that's what rights for you, so whatever works for you!" just for the sake of being able to fit in. That's crap. You think the book that I believe is Holy, is a storybook.
B is popular, but still means that millions of people such as me are delusional, tell them to wake up. Yet I more frequently get the whole "Hey if its cool for you, then....." line
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3 points... "the whole rising from dead thing, kinda made Him stand out. " exactly... That why he is the base of the story, he is the moral setter. Going back to fables, people invent monsters and tales to make the message stand better, the idea of Jesus does this, someone to prove yourself to. Th idea of this is that it encourages people to follow the morrals set by the storeys, and makes them live life by the way the religion sets down.
"You think the book that I believe is Holy, is a storybook. " Yes, but with a lot of good stuff in it to say... The fabric of the book isnt holy as such, what is holy is the effect the intertwined message can have.
" B is popular, but still means that millions of people such as me are delusional, tell them to wake up. Yet I more frequently get the whole "Hey if its cool for you, then....." line" If it works for you fine, the idea of jesus is to make people belive he is real, and therefore for people to follow the guidelines he set down. But it is not the vital part of religion. To live as a christian you dont have to believe the shit, just know what it tells you to do and do it.
again, all my take on it, but i think it is a logical one.
So it was my friend's 21st party last night. The morning after I gave his girlfriend (also one of my best friends) a lift to a big-ass evangelist Christian festival. I snuck in (sneaking in to God Squad festivals, definition of hardcore) and spent the evening there. They all went to a big tent and while it wasn't quite
http://www.youtube.com/v/hMJcVGx0QYA
it wasn't a million miles off. At times there were people going mental. One guy just wouldn't stop laughing for about ten minutes straight, hysterically shrieking. Others were shouting out random words and shit... this was hardcore Christianity. The preacher 'sensed' people who were in the room (read: say really vague things that could apply to anyone), and called them up where people would touch them and basically freeze in place to call God's healing power on them. Then they had a testimonial from a woman who had been trying to get pregnant for years and finally conceived with her husband AT the festival (not sure how she managed to pinpoint the conception to a three-day period... or maybe they just didn't have sex unless they were both feeling super Jesusy). Finally they called up anyone who didn't identify as Christian... the pastor called them "not-yet-Christians". I wisely refrained. They did a prayer for them and then led them off like a bunch of lepers to start evangelising hard. It was all weird as f*ck.
Geeze. I'm all my years stuck in church, I've never seen anything like this. And I mean my parents roped me into everything. I had to volunteer at the church, volunteer when christian bands came to town. It was crazy. But I never saw anything like this
So it was my friend's 21st party last night. The morning after I gave his girlfriend (also one of my best friends) a lift to a big-ass evangelist Christian festival. I snuck in (sneaking in to God Squad festivals, definition of hardcore) and spent the evening there. They all went to a big tent and while it wasn't quite it wasn't a million miles off. At times there were people going mental. One guy just wouldn't stop laughing for about ten minutes straight, hysterically shrieking. Others were shouting out random words and shit... this was hardcore Christianity. The preacher 'sensed' people who were in the room (read: say really vague things that could apply to anyone), and called them up where people would touch them and basically freeze in place to call God's healing power on them. Then they had a testimonial from a woman who had been trying to get pregnant for years and finally conceived with her husband AT the festival (not sure how she managed to pinpoint the conception to a three-day period... or maybe they just didn't have sex unless they were both feeling super Jesusy). Finally they called up anyone who didn't identify as Christian... the pastor called them "not-yet-Christians". I wisely refrained. They did a prayer for them and then led them off like a bunch of lepers to start evangelising hard. It was all weird as f*ck.
Holy cockballs, I'm so making this a drinking game....everytime someone speaks in tongues take a shot.
The girl I went with is one of my best friends, probably my one best friend right now. A number of the others who were there I know well and they're not noticeably less well-adjusted than other, non-religious nutjobs. Plus we later went to one of the festival bars and they serve alcohol and stuff so it's not ultra-extreme. Though I'm sure that I wouldn't have had to look far to find some serious bible-thumping, glazed-over-expression Jesus freekz.
This past Sunday, my girlfriend's mom took me to church because it was some dating-her-daughter rule. I was told once only, so whatever. Never been to a church before. Figured I may as well try it. It was definitely captivating in its own way, but definitely not for me.
The concept of religion really interests me though, as well as its social impact. It's got so much history behind it, no matter the culture. I really appreciate mass amounts of people gathering together peacefully for a common cause. It's nice to see.
That being said, I will never accept a religion without definite proof of existence of a greater power. So when I'm now expected to show up to church more often, you can imagine I wasn't pleased. I respect their choice of religious deity and am not going to put myself in a position to argue it, but I would appreciate it if you were to not discreetly force it upon me. I will not go again. I was told once.
I personally sit on the fence when it comes to religion. As what you said, I aswell like the idea of people being able to congregate as a community and be able to be together in peace.
But then there is the other side of religion that almost makes me an antitheist, the people who try to use religious material as a justification for their personal fear of the unfamiliar. It almost angers me to see on the news thousands of people protesting against abortions, gay marriage etc, I simply don't get how ignorant they can be to try and deny others right's. I see when these people follow their religion so ignorantly and blindly they'll do anything their told by a guy in a funny hat, I personally find that scary.
I think if everyone could take the actual morals of the Bible/Qu'ran etc that the world could potentially be a better place, if there was no prejudice or hatred against one another like they try to say. In the bible there is only two commands in the new testament;
Matthew 22:37-40, "Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
It's a shame that so many Catholics/Christians etc call themselves followers of the bible yet don't uphold the two primary commandments.
I also wonder what the world would be like without theism, I wonder if there would still be bigotry, hatred, murder etc if they couldn't say a book told them to do it.
An intelligent person does not need the promise of Heaven to see merit in a good deed
-Carl Sagan
Apologies if the post doesn't make sense in points because I'm shit tired and already written a 3k word assignment for homework
The concept of religion really interests me though, as well as its social impact. It's got so much history behind it, no matter the culture. I really appreciate mass amounts of people gathering together peacefully for a common cause. It's nice to see.
Until you realize these same people are also part of a religious group that traveled across countries killing people if they didn't convert, has gone to war over it, and are sometimes downright hateful towards people who don't believe in the same thing as them. Yes, some Christians are in fact very kind and generous people and a lot of the teachings in the bible are good it still contains stuff like this: “‘If a man sleeps with a female slave who is promised to another man but who has not been ransomed or given her freedom, there must be due punishment.[a] Yet they are not to be put to death, because she had not been freed. 21 The man, however, must bring a ram to the entrance to the tent of meeting for a guilt offering to the Lord. 22 With the ram of the guilt offering the priest is to make atonement for him before the Lord for the sin he has committed, and his sin will be forgiven." and this: “‘Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material." and this: “‘Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard."
It seems pretty silly. These people are believing in a book written about 3500 years ago that has been translated numerous times and has been disproved by science, it's almost sad watching their minds become captivated by it.
Trozei, I get what you are saying. Having that sort of community is important and without religion I think people would have a hard time getting into communities that care so much about the people in it. Having a support network is a great thing. When I was a kid my mom was heavily involved in the church so I got a ton of exposure to some of the awesome things this community did for people. Letting fellow church members borrow cars when someones car broke down or delivering home cooked meals when someone is ill. While a church certainly isn't needed to do these things, the sense of community and ease of acceptance into this tight community has inherit value.
Say what you will about the history of religion sgt-frog. There are many peaceful religions and Christians in the past century have started to join the ranks of say Mennonites, Buddhists and whatnot.
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