Tips for building base fitness for time poor dh riders

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Tips for building base fitness for time poor dh riders
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flag jeff444
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Posted: Feb 4, 2014 at 6:45 Quote
slidways wrote:
jeff444 wrote:
Eat healthy by far number 1 advice!!!

Regular light weights everyday different body part!

30 mins on a intense exercise bike, mine came with pre programmed rides.

Lots of stretching and or yoga!

Did I mention EAT HEALTHY. No bread,cheese,minimal sugar, no trans fats!

No bread?

reason behind this?
well if trying to shed weight bread or white flour is your enemy!! Any bread
flag slidways
Posted: Feb 4, 2014 at 7:42 Quote
jeff444 wrote:
slidways wrote:
jeff444 wrote:
Eat healthy by far number 1 advice!!!

Regular light weights everyday different body part!

30 mins on a intense exercise bike, mine came with pre programmed rides.

Lots of stretching and or yoga!

Did I mention EAT HEALTHY. No bread,cheese,minimal sugar, no trans fats!

No bread?

reason behind this?
well if trying to shed weight bread or white flour is your enemy!! Any bread

debatable. white flours in general or any processed grains I think should be everyone enemy haha, definitely change to whole grains, grain in general I think are good to limit as they tend to be inflammatory and arguably are not great for the human digestive tract, but carbs are not bad, there are definitely some more ideal ones quinoa been a good source. I will admit the whole no carb thing does shed weight but its not really an ideal way for everyone. more so If you are competing in sports that require carb stores it might not be such a good idea. fat and carbs don't make you fat, over eating makes you fat.
there is some argument about the insulin rise associated with carbs and how that effects fat storage and burning.
flag jeff444
O+
Posted: Feb 4, 2014 at 7:49 Quote
slidways wrote:
jeff444 wrote:
slidways wrote:


No bread?

reason behind this?
well if trying to shed weight bread or white flour is your enemy!! Any bread

debatable. white flours in general or any processed grains I think should be everyone enemy haha, definitely change to whole grains, grain in general I think are good to limit as they tend to be inflammatory and arguably are not great for the human digestive tract, but carbs are not bad, there are definitely some more ideal ones quinoa been a good source. I will admit the whole no carb thing does shed weight but its not really an ideal way for everyone. more so If you are competing in sports that require carb stores it might not be such a good idea. fat and carbs don't make you fat, over eating makes you fat.
there is some argument about the insulin rise associated with carbs and how that effects fat storage and burning.
this is tips for training? Correct. If I was riding all day or racing I would eat plenty of carbs for fuel.
But IMO everyday training to get in shape I don't want a lot of carbs. Lots of Vit c and protein.
I agree that eating proper meals sizes more frequently has really helped me. But I still stay clear of trans fat cause that's what packs on the belly
flag Turboute
Posted: Feb 4, 2014 at 17:46 Quote
I never used to eat breakfast, just a litre of iced coffee at pre start. Wife makes me smoothies the night before now and I'm off the ice coffee. Smaller portions too. Did some hiit training yesterday arv. It was not much fun but I can see a huge benefit. Just trying to do something at least every other day. I have lost a few kilos and I can button my old work pants up again.
flag slidways
Posted: Feb 4, 2014 at 21:00 Quote
jeff444 wrote:
slidways wrote:
jeff444 wrote:
well if trying to shed weight bread or white flour is your enemy!! Any bread

debatable. white flours in general or any processed grains I think should be everyone enemy haha, definitely change to whole grains, grain in general I think are good to limit as they tend to be inflammatory and arguably are not great for the human digestive tract, but carbs are not bad, there are definitely some more ideal ones quinoa been a good source. I will admit the whole no carb thing does shed weight but its not really an ideal way for everyone. more so If you are competing in sports that require carb stores it might not be such a good idea. fat and carbs don't make you fat, over eating makes you fat.
there is some argument about the insulin rise associated with carbs and how that effects fat storage and burning.
this is tips for training? Correct. If I was riding all day or racing I would eat plenty of carbs for fuel.
But IMO everyday training to get in shape I don't want a lot of carbs. Lots of Vit c and protein.
I agree that eating proper meals sizes more frequently has really helped me. But I still stay clear of trans fat cause that's what packs on the belly

Not just training carbs are important for daily needs, although if you eat a healthy diet veggies and fruit should provide you with enough to at least fuel the brain, the brain uses about 100grams of glucose a day. Yeah when i say fat is not bad I mean that in a general statement. trans fats you want zero, sat fat you want some but limited to recommended intakes although there are some studies showing saturated fat is less a concern in conjunction with other eating habits.
Unsaturated fats though are not a worry massively, monounsaturated fats are not a concern, polyunsaturated fats do contain the omegas you want to try to eat a ratio of 1:2-1:4 omega 3 to omega6.Modern diets are too high in O6 and too low in O3 throwing the balance out. so while polyunsaturated fats are unsaturated they still can be bad if you are eating high Omega6 diet and low Omega3.

Overall each fat carries 9calories per gram but the body is better at breaking down certain fats.

that all said some people do suit certain foods, myself I can eat carbs all day and not gain weight, but others find it hard to eat any carbs without putting on weight, I think this is partly down to the individual but also their level of insulin sensitivity. I think important to do what works for you as long as its healthy, I just don't like it when carbs or fats are labeled bad because reality is they are not. there are better sources no doubt. but i think the blanket terms creates more confusion and misleading information to the general public.

just note im not qualified just very health focused with lots of research so just my opinions here.
flag traintoride
Posted: Feb 5, 2014 at 14:21 Quote
I'm one of the trainer guys that believe that outright "cardio base" programs for DH and Enduro are mostly obsolete (unless you are being paid as a pro- diff topic). DH is straight up max HR mayhem for 3-6 minutes and requires a very efficient body in order to maximize your body's ability to perform at high heart rates and high respiratory rates, all while your body performs at its best.
I encourage clients to look at their training as a "performance pyramid" where the base of the pyramid is what allows for a strong, stable and high pyramid top. Without the base being wide, then you can create a tall pyramid, but eventually it's going to tip over and run out of altitude compared to someone who has a side base and can create a much taller pyramid.
Working from the bottom up, it looks like this:
1- Muscle Flexibility, core stability, joint mobility and posture are the foundation to precise human movement and performance, especially for gravity events like DH and Enduro.
2- Continuing to train elements of #1, but adding movement pattern education is crucial. MTB'ing requires every primal movement pattern that the human can perform- the ability to: squat, lunge, push, pull, bend, twist. Being proficient at these is vitally important.
3- Grow muscle and get strong buy taking advantage of #1 and #2. Growing muscle, tendon and nervous system strength is beneficial for being able to handle the strength requirements of DH. It also helps prevent injury if you crash.
4- Power. Power is strength with speed. Obviously DH is all about power. BUT in order to create power (real strength based power), you can only accomplish it in the gym and fine tune it on the bike.

My vote, is to spend a time in the gym for the aforementioned reasons, and add HIIT type of training protocols on top of your gym work. It will pay off in ways you never thought possible!
flag slidways
Posted: Feb 5, 2014 at 20:42 Quote
enduromtbtrainer wrote:
I'm one of the trainer guys that believe that outright "cardio base" programs for DH and Enduro are mostly obsolete (unless you are being paid as a pro- diff topic). DH is straight up max HR mayhem for 3-6 minutes and requires a very efficient body in order to maximize your body's ability to perform at high heart rates and high respiratory rates, all while your body performs at its best.
I encourage clients to look at their training as a "performance pyramid" where the base of the pyramid is what allows for a strong, stable and high pyramid top. Without the base being wide, then you can create a tall pyramid, but eventually it's going to tip over and run out of altitude compared to someone who has a side base and can create a much taller pyramid.
Working from the bottom up, it looks like this:
1- Muscle Flexibility, core stability, joint mobility and posture are the foundation to precise human movement and performance, especially for gravity events like DH and Enduro.
2- Continuing to train elements of #1, but adding movement pattern education is crucial. MTB'ing requires every primal movement pattern that the human can perform- the ability to: squat, lunge, push, pull, bend, twist. Being proficient at these is vitally important.
3- Grow muscle and get strong buy taking advantage of #1 and #2. Growing muscle, tendon and nervous system strength is beneficial for being able to handle the strength requirements of DH. It also helps prevent injury if you crash.
4- Power. Power is strength with speed. Obviously DH is all about power. BUT in order to create power (real strength based power), you can only accomplish it in the gym and fine tune it on the bike.

My vote, is to spend a time in the gym for the aforementioned reasons, and add HIIT type of training protocols on top of your gym work. It will pay off in ways you never thought possible!

i asked a wc trainer about this and they said that the long distance adaptions are still beneficial because it increases the riders ability to with stand training loads. Which allows them to peak for longer and work harder during the season.
As you shift from aerobic to anaerobic there are different adaptations that go on, im still not sold entirely on only sprinting. If you look at downhill, you need to consider the load, you're usually there for 5 days + with lots of practice and testing, to not burn out after one day you need a good aerobic base for downtime and recovery. Also while downhill is very anaerobic you rarely see a rider sprint 100% unless its at the end most the time they are hitting high heart rates but its not always 100% but instead to maintain a high level of effort to get the best time instead of burning out. A strong aerobic base also improves recovery.

I can see benefit to both, however that said you could equally just train by doing 5 days in a row of sprints and mimic a downhill weekend. there not better way to train than to train like the event.

Im on the fence but hanging over on the no aerobic side, just haven't let go of the fence yet.
flag traintoride
Posted: Feb 6, 2014 at 10:05 Quote
Well there are many ways to go on your response. I didn't say that sprinting was the only way, my point is is to say that strength training as I describes can go a long way in creating a base level of cardio fitness that most are unfamiliar with. PLUS, most mtbers ride plenty to get enough base for DH racing at the amateur level. My argument is is that amateur DH racers don't spend enough time in the gym preparing their bodies for the rigor of DH racing and all if facets.
So in the end, my argument is that most DH racers have enough "basic level" cardio, not enough stability, mobility, strength and power, and not enough anaerobic power to perform at their true potential.
Oh- and trust me, I have a much more complex approach to this, but I don't feel like spending tons of time explaining it, ya know!
Thanks slidways
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