Can you be too short to effectively ride a DJ/street MTB?

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Can you be too short to effectively ride a DJ/street MTB?
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flag ridelikeacat
Posted: Mar 1, 2015 at 13:36 Quote
Brakeless Suburban 24

Ive been riding street/park a couple years and although im skilled and talented, i run across things that seem way harder for me than the other riders around me. Im stocky muscular and short, about 170lbs and 5'5". I can manual, j hop, 180, fakie, air halfpipes, tabletop and whip. Workin on bars and 3s but it seems physically harder for me to do these tricks than the people around me. Im wondering if my height and short legs (26" inseem) are clashing with my bikes geo? Am i too short to ride the bike i have? I feely balance point is small when manualing, i want to topple forewards or backwards as soon as im there and im having to compensate alot with body position and it feels unnatural. I am someone who usually outperforms my peers physically and has better balance and cognitive abilities as well. Am i making a simple thing harder than it has to by using a bike that doesnt fit? This is my setup




Frame: 2013 NS Suburban park (21.7" top tube)
Fork: 2014 NS RNS (428mm a2c)
Bars: 2013 NS District 4" rise and cut to 27" wide
Cranks: 2013 O1 2pcs pro 175mm arms with externall bb, so wider foot position
Wheels: 24" with 2.1" tires.

Since its based on a compact yet long frame and wide long crank arms and a wide bar, am i maybe in a shitty riding position compared to an ideal position for trick riding? Would i perform better on a shorter bmx, to such a degree that i should swap rides? Ive put $2.5k+ into this bike its 10.5kg and i love it to death. I just wonder id its holding back my riding? Or should i be able to get used to its size and it doesnt make much of a difference? Im VERY strong, and i feel like my strength is compensating a little for the extra difficulty in spinning/hopping due to its size. This is a compact frame like i said but what is tiny for a 6' rider feels big for me (i.e. This bike) and im wondering if im better suited for something thats compact for ME like a street oriented 20" bmx? Really would appreciate your input. I have mental issues that make me easily overwhelmed with hard decisions and i tend to overthink things. Thank you!
flag cmc4130
Posted: Mar 1, 2015 at 15:26 Quote
Andreu Lacondeguy is probably about your height.

So you're not too short.

At the same time, I feel like it always helps to try different bikes. Certain tricks do feel way different on 20" bmx, and I think it benefits anyone (regardless of height) to try both. I think switching back and forth actually helps progress you more than just riding one format. It's like cross-training and it can help break you out of ruts.

About your current bike, maybe 4" bars are a little too tall? Seems like 1"s would be more typical for someone at your height.

I also think you should test ride a 24"-specific park bike, like a Black Market Contraband or something.
flag ridelikeacat
Posted: Mar 1, 2015 at 19:21 Quote
cmc4130 wrote:
Andreu Lacondeguy is probably about your height.

So you're not too short.

At the same time, I feel like it always helps to try different bikes. Certain tricks do feel way different on 20" bmx, and I think it benefits anyone (regardless of height) to try both. I think switching back and forth actually helps progress you more than just riding one format. It's like cross-training and it can help break you out of ruts.

About your current bike, maybe 4" bars are a little too tall? Seems like 1"s would be more typical for someone at your height.

I also think you should test ride a 24"-specific park bike, like a Black Market Contraband or something.

K i feel a lil better, sam pilgrims only 5'8" as well and he rides a NS park frame with 26s. Correct me if im wrong but the only difference in geo between my frame and that contraband is a lil chainstay length.

SUBURBAN PARK
- material: custom butted 4130 cromoly
- recommended fork travel: Dirt: 80-140mm, Park: 60-120mm
- top tube (physical c-c): Dirt: 573mm / 22.5”, Park: 554 mm / 21.8”
- chain stays: Dirt: 381mm / 15” slammed, Park: 374 mm / 14.7” slammed
- frame size: Dirt: 307mm / 12.1”, Park: 301mm / 11.8”
- headset: integrated headset Campy spec (45x45°, OD41.8mm),
- head tube stack: 115mm / 4.5”
- bb: euro bb 68mm
- biggest chainring: up to ~32t
- mtb hub spacing (O.L.D 135 x 10mm)
- disk brake mount IS (International Standard), rotor size up to 185mm max
- max tyre size: Dirt: 26”x2.4”, Park: 26”x2.3” or 24”x2.4”
- 27.2mm seat post / integrated seat clamp
- weight: Dirt: ~2.49kg. Park: ~2.46kg
- colours: black (with lime decals), jungle, chrome, raw-orange

Black market contraband specs:
Head Angle: 72* with 414 Axle to Crown Fork Head Tube Length: 6.625"/ 117.5MM Headset Type: 42MM Integrated Campy Spec. Seat Angle: 71* Seat Tube Size: 27.2MM Seat Tube Length: 10.8"/ 275MM BB: 73MM Mid Chainstays: 14.3"/365MM Drop Outs: 10MM Taper Lock Wheel Spacing: 135MM Wheel Size: 24" Only Available with 21.5" and 22" top tubes Stamped BlkMrkt DT Gusset Sanko butted tubing Weight: 5lbs. 12oz. / 2.6kg.

Since im gonna run 26" wheels i think i have the perfect frame afterall! ( have pair of 2015 NS fundamentals in 26" just need to build wheels with sapim DB race spokes and pay for my kenda kiniptions. I guess i was overthinking it and my bike is fine

BUT that being said. Why do you say lower rise is better cuz im short? I was under the impression you couldnt get a bar high enough, as the higher bar provides more leverage for mannys and hopping? Id appreciate ur input
flag cmc4130
Posted: Mar 2, 2015 at 8:10 Quote
ridelikeacat wrote:

K i feel a lil better, sam pilgrims only 5'8" as well and he rides a NS park frame with 26s. Correct me if im wrong but the only difference in geo between my frame and that contraband is a lil chainstay length.

SUBURBAN PARK
- material: custom butted 4130 cromoly
- recommended fork travel: Dirt: 80-140mm, Park: 60-120mm
- top tube (physical c-c): Dirt: 573mm / 22.5”, Park: 554 mm / 21.8”
- chain stays: Dirt: 381mm / 15” slammed, Park: 374 mm / 14.7” slammed
- frame size: Dirt: 307mm / 12.1”, Park: 301mm / 11.8”
- headset: integrated headset Campy spec (45x45°, OD41.8mm),
- head tube stack: 115mm / 4.5”
- bb: euro bb 68mm
- biggest chainring: up to ~32t
- mtb hub spacing (O.L.D 135 x 10mm)
- disk brake mount IS (International Standard), rotor size up to 185mm max
- max tyre size: Dirt: 26”x2.4”, Park: 26”x2.3” or 24”x2.4”
- 27.2mm seat post / integrated seat clamp
- weight: Dirt: ~2.49kg. Park: ~2.46kg
- colours: black (with lime decals), jungle, chrome, raw-orange

Black market contraband specs:
Head Angle: 72* with 414 Axle to Crown Fork Head Tube Length: 6.625"/ 117.5MM Headset Type: 42MM Integrated Campy Spec. Seat Angle: 71* Seat Tube Size: 27.2MM Seat Tube Length: 10.8"/ 275MM BB: 73MM Mid Chainstays: 14.3"/365MM Drop Outs: 10MM Taper Lock Wheel Spacing: 135MM Wheel Size: 24" Only Available with 21.5" and 22" top tubes Stamped BlkMrkt DT Gusset Sanko butted tubing Weight: 5lbs. 12oz. / 2.6kg.

Since im gonna run 26" wheels i think i have the perfect frame afterall! ( have pair of 2015 NS fundamentals in 26" just need to build wheels with sapim DB race spokes and pay for my kenda kiniptions. I guess i was overthinking it and my bike is fine

BUT that being said. Why do you say lower rise is better cuz im short? I was under the impression you couldnt get a bar high enough, as the higher bar provides more leverage for mannys and hopping? Id appreciate ur input

I just noticed you already are riding 24" wheels, and I didn't key in to the Suburban 'park' being different from the older Suburban, so never mind about the Contraband. You already have a park bike.

I personally like 3" and 4" rise bars, but it's because I'm tall and lower bars make me feel like I'm hunching down too much. It seemed like it was trendy for a while for everyone to have taller bars, then a lot of people started switching to really low DH-style bars. I don't know, it's purely a personal preference thing. Some people think they hop higher with low bars. I don't. Whatever!! Wink
flag ridelikeacat
Posted: Mar 2, 2015 at 8:23 Quote
Im unsure of proper weight distribution when standing over yur bike. My weight is like mostly all over my pedals probably 10% over bars. I remember when i first got this bike setup i had to struggle to jump then i tilted my bars foreward and it became easier. Maybe my weight should be more like 70% pedals 30% over bars? What do you think? I cant really find any good articles for short dj riders, or how to dial in your bar height for your body when standing is your main riding position, or about standober position. So hearing ur take on it might be helpful. So far im starting to get the idea maybe i would benefit from a lower bar. I just dont know how much hunch is good and how much is bad lol
flag cmc4130
Posted: Mar 2, 2015 at 8:35 Quote
Carter Holland, the owner of Black Market bikes is also about your height. Looks like he's riding 1" or 2" bars here:

photo

This is when he came to our trails:
Unsecure image, only https images allowed: http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh138/upsetbmx/ALLIED-jam-11-28-09_Carter-0012.jpg
flag ridelikeacat
Posted: Mar 2, 2015 at 21:55 Quote
So i look like i need just to move slightly more over the bar? I feel like my hands are resting on the bar but not really any weight is "over" them, other than leaning sort of "against" them.

I had to use a 10sec timer in my tinnnny apartment lol so bear with me

Lazy manual position
photo

Ready position
photo
photo

I look pver it i guess but my weight distribution is more over the pedals. What so you think? I can get used to anything so idk if my bars are too high and im just used to them or if theyre the right height
flag cmc4130
Posted: Mar 3, 2015 at 14:29 Quote
Your bars seem fine. Grips above knee level but below waist level. There's really no way to generalize though, because people run various bar heights, sometimes correlated with height, other times not.

Do you ever do them this low?

Unsecure image, only https images allowed: http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh138/upsetbmx/manual--triangle.jpg
http://forums.mtbr.com/urban-dj-park/problmes-manual-649964.html

from leelikesbikes.com:
Unsecure image, only https images allowed: http://leelikesbikes.com/Stories/121504b/ManualGetUp.jpg
flag ridelikeacat
Posted: Mar 3, 2015 at 19:39 Quote
Nah i never tried em low, i dont really know any theory i just ride and go by feel. I can hold a manual for like 3-5 seconds balanced where im at, maybe if i try em lower ill have more luck Smile glad to hear bars look fine, less money to spend in upgrades hahaha Razz i am also glad i can keep these chromo bars. Neat diagram. well apparently from this whole thread, im getting that im right trusting my instincts and ahouldnt uestion myself so much. I used to be a stoner so rising wwithout overthinking was very easy lol gotta learn to just do rather than think lol

lso ur the only one replying, so thanks man i appreciate it
flag Aaronz25RS
Posted: Mar 6, 2015 at 7:29 Quote
I had similar issues and a lot changed when I went taller with my bars
flag ridelikeacat
Posted: May 11, 2015 at 14:52 Quote
Mine are maxed aha the change from 24" to 26" made my bike a little easier to grt on the back wheel since my center of gravity is higher.
flag ricar
Posted: May 12, 2015 at 18:55 Quote
My first response is to say that the bike may very well be big for you. I don't want to com across as a jerk, or that I am pushing my own preference but if you look at bikes in general, they are designed around the population in general. If you are shorter/smaller than the average then you may want to consider a bike that is smaller than average, yet you chose to pick up the bikes with the largest wheels... I honestly think this will be a detriment to your riding.


That being said, there is no reason you can not excel on your bike of choice but IMO you may need to put a bit more into it than the "average" guys. I would be willing to bet that a good workout would help quite a bit. Not going to the gym and pumping iron, that tends to make things worse as you are always pumped and prone to pulling muscles. Many BMX racers have said going to the gym made them slower because it killed their rhythm (tracks have changes quite a bit though so that seems to not apply so much any more). My suggestion would be pushups, not reps and sets but bang out 50. If you can get 50 then 60 and call it done for the day. You will notice strength gains and it will give you upper body mass but not the quick burst kind of muscles but muscle that has more endurance.

Or you can call me full of crap and ignore me. You have to do what works for you.

"BUT that being said. Why do you say lower rise is better cuz im short? I was under the impression you couldnt get a bar high enough, as the higher bar provides more leverage for mannys and hopping? Id appreciate ur input "

There is more to it than that. Bar height, BB height, C-stay length all play into it. You can't just expect a taller bar to fix things, you have to realize it's all a compromise, what is that taller bar taking away? Control for one. Take that to the extreme and you won't see any racers with massive monkey bars like you do on some park bikes. Obviously race bikes take control to the extreme and park/street bikes not so much, but there will be a happy middle ground of give and take and all things must be in proportion to have "the right bike".
flag ridelikeacat
Posted: May 13, 2015 at 19:53 Quote
In response to ricar:

I kinda wondered if id have a much easier time riding a bmx, but i do like the mtb style and feel, just is a bit of a slow spinner lol but i love to shred it at high speed and do gaps and jumps, its just kind of clumsy in a close technical space. As for the riser bar question, i ride an NS Suburban Park, 175mm cranks, 26" wheels, ns rns 428 a2c fork and tall as balls ns district 4" riser bars. And im 5'5.5" i just dont know where to begin figuring out how tall of a bar is ideal.
flag Metro-Gnome
Posted: May 13, 2015 at 23:57 Quote
ridelikeacat wrote:
In response to ricar:

I kinda wondered if id have a much easier time riding a bmx, but i do like the mtb style and feel, just is a bit of a slow spinner lol but i love to shred it at high speed and do gaps and jumps, its just kind of clumsy in a close technical space. As for the riser bar question, i ride an NS Suburban Park, 175mm cranks, 26" wheels, ns rns 428 a2c fork and tall as balls ns district 4" riser bars. And im 5'5.5" i just dont know where to begin figuring out how tall of a bar is ideal.

I have districts on a 24" DJ bike and I love them too... I am 5' 8"-5-9" though and I have pretty long arms and inseam (33" inseam) and my bike has way different geo than yours... I actually have the frame (2014 suburban, check my profile) you have as well, so can make a comparison. Although I run a 38mm riser on that bike...

Edit: to clarify.... I have a lot of bikes and I am referring to a 24" specific norco 250 that has districts on it... The Suburban park has a 38mm rise bar on it right now.

As I always say.. 'Ricar is right, lol'.... I've tried every rise/material/width bar you can imagine, and it Is a compromise... I didn't like high rise bars back in 2005 because they were all crossbar-style monster heavy beasts... And they weren't wide enough, so balancing in a manual was more difficult, Imo. Now, ns and other companies make wide bars with no crossbar, so theyre better, but it's still gonna be a compromise. My recommendation for a bar would be a 38mm rise. Still high enough to manual and hop pretty high, but low enough to tuck in when railing berms. Low bars make pumping down easier, too on jump lines... With that added control it can help you maintain (and scrub, in the air) or at least that's how I feel. Heavy, high rise bars change the way a bike handles quite a bit as well. I've always thought of the bar(and stem, in tandem) as the most important factor in how you ar controlling the bike. Yes, a high rise, heavy bar will put the weight of the bike closer to you, but a lighter, lower bar will force you to get down there and spring up more. When you think about the physics of riding a bike through the air at high speed, pulling back or forward on a bar while flying is completely different than holding it in your hands without a bike attached to it. Hopefully that made sense to you....what I mean is you can't compare picking up two different bars on their own and feeling them on a bike. I've found that as little as a 100 gram difference will make a huge difference while riding/shredding.

My body is proportionately opposite of yours though, short torso-long legs...but I lovethe suburban park frame... It started as my spare parts build and became my favourite bike this year. I strongly recommend against switching frames, but I
would personally run a lighter, lower bar WITH suspension if I were you. Rigid is cool and all, but weight wise you'd end up at almost the same weight if you had a 38mm renthal carbon bar and a pike DJ or 36 831. Districts are a lot heavier than the average carbon bar and the renthal is the highest rise I've ever found (believe me I looked)
flag cmc4130
Posted: May 14, 2015 at 10:59 Quote
Metro-Gnome.... I just "got" the pun in your name..... Geez, I can be slow sometimes.... Wink

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