Suspension SETUP, a 'how to' guide...

PB Forum :: Mechanics' Lounge
Suspension SETUP, a 'how to' guide...
Author Message
flag richie223
Posted: Apr 22, 2014 at 7:49 Quote
Nobble wrote:
I believe it, i'd suggest upgrading to a needle bearing, they dont wear out as easily and they decrease friction but they're a lot more expensive.

Who make the needle bearing for it ??
flag Nobble
Posted: Apr 22, 2014 at 7:56 Quote
I'm on mobile so i cant make it into a link bit these guys sell them for just about any bike. I dont know if they ship across the pond, you could always try TF too.

http://www.enduroforkseals.com/id275.html
flag richie223
Posted: Apr 22, 2014 at 7:58 Quote
Nobble wrote:
I'm on mobile so i cant make it into a link bit these guys sell them for just about any bike. I dont know if they ship across the pond, you could always try TF too.

http://www.enduroforkseals.com/id275.html

thanks mate will give them a try Smile
flag dmadness
Posted: Apr 22, 2014 at 17:52 Quote
richie223 wrote:
Nobble wrote:
richie223 wrote:


Hi Mate

Its a fox dhx rc2

The main reason i ask is that ive noticed a bit of play in the top mount bush of the shock , and thinking it because im bottoming out alot ??
your upper shock mount DU is worn out. The glory eats upper shock bushings because the pivot undergoes a high angle of rotation.


Edit: a 500lb coil would be way too heavy. I'm 170lbs + gear and i'm running a 450 and it's perfect.


Thanks for the info , ive ordered a new heavy duty bush and upgrading the spring to 450 , i still cant believe it has worn out so fast only 3 and half months of riding ,

in the meantime while you wait for your new bushings use Beer can shims to eliminate play, they work surprisingly well and are free... well you have to drink a beer... WAIT.!!! they're better than free, Smile
flag z-man
O+
Posted: Apr 22, 2014 at 17:57 Quote
My M9 would go through D.U bushings every couple months. Its not a big deal

The new 5-piece igus hardware is proving to be awesome after a whole season of use. Never had one wear out.

Lighter, wear slower, and have waaaaaayyyy less friction. Plus you can change them with your hands and new ones are cheap as heck!
flag slidways
Posted: Apr 22, 2014 at 21:21 Quote
Nobble wrote:
I believe it, i'd suggest upgrading to a needle bearing, they dont wear out as easily and they decrease friction but they're a lot more expensive.

Dont wear out as fast?

What bearings are you using? They are designed for rotation not static load much of which is what is encountered in riding, while the shock does rotate a small amount if the mount doesn't move much you wear down the needles in one spot, which usually means more maintenance and more often replacement. performance is amazing for sensitivity though. Before you buy the bearing check the manufacturers static load rating is high enough, if so than go for it.

The new fox mounting hardware would be the safe way to go supposedly the life is drastically increased, friction is also massively reduced.

Edit
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/f19/needle-bearing-shock-bushings-very-smooth-228550/index2/

User: dhbrigade
Post #19
"From an engineering point of view those bearings are not permitted to every type of frame. Needle bearings have less static load rating then normal shock eye bushings.

If you have a look at the *ag or SKF bearing cataloge you will see that this special cup needle roller bearing (SKF code: SCE57 for example) offers a basic static load rating of 4850N. If you own a shock with 3 inches of travel an use a 400lbs/inch spring you put at bottom out a minimum of 1200lbs on that bearing. This is equal to 544.32kg which equals a radial force on the bearing of 5339.8N. So nearly 10% over the maximum static load rating. "
flag Nobble
Posted: Apr 22, 2014 at 21:59 Quote
slidways wrote:
Nobble wrote:
I believe it, i'd suggest upgrading to a needle bearing, they dont wear out as easily and they decrease friction but they're a lot more expensive.

Dont wear out as fast?

What bearings are you using? They are designed for rotation not static load much of which is what is encountered in riding, while the shock does rotate a small amount if the mount doesn't move much you wear down the needles in one spot, which usually means more maintenance and more often replacement. performance is amazing for sensitivity though. Before you buy the bearing check the manufacturers static load rating is high enough, if so than go for it.

The new fox mounting hardware would be the safe way to go supposedly the life is drastically increased, friction is also massively reduced.

Edit
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/f19/needle-bearing-shock-bushings-very-smooth-228550/index2/

User: dhbrigade
Post #19
"From an engineering point of view those bearings are not permitted to every type of frame. Needle bearings have less static load rating then normal shock eye bushings.

If you have a look at the *ag or SKF bearing cataloge you will see that this special cup needle roller bearing (SKF code: SCE57 for example) offers a basic static load rating of 4850N. If you own a shock with 3 inches of travel an use a 400lbs/inch spring you put at bottom out a minimum of 1200lbs on that bearing. This is equal to 544.32kg which equals a radial force on the bearing of 5339.8N. So nearly 10% over the maximum static load rating. "
Obviously a bearing has a lower load rating than a bushing... that's the whole point of bushings. You're forgetting that bearings are designed with a factor of safety included though, if the bearing has a factor of safety of 2 then a 5000n rated bearing will function up to 10kn.


but it depends on your frame, the upper pivot on my glory undergoes a shitload of rotation, probably close to 30 degree. For $35 I'd happily give it a shot seeing as I constantly have play in these stupid f*cking DU bushings.
flag slidways
Posted: Apr 22, 2014 at 23:25 Quote
Nobble wrote:
slidways wrote:
Nobble wrote:
I believe it, i'd suggest upgrading to a needle bearing, they dont wear out as easily and they decrease friction but they're a lot more expensive.

Dont wear out as fast?

What bearings are you using? They are designed for rotation not static load much of which is what is encountered in riding, while the shock does rotate a small amount if the mount doesn't move much you wear down the needles in one spot, which usually means more maintenance and more often replacement. performance is amazing for sensitivity though. Before you buy the bearing check the manufacturers static load rating is high enough, if so than go for it.

The new fox mounting hardware would be the safe way to go supposedly the life is drastically increased, friction is also massively reduced.

Edit
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/f19/needle-bearing-shock-bushings-very-smooth-228550/index2/

User: dhbrigade
Post #19
"From an engineering point of view those bearings are not permitted to every type of frame. Needle bearings have less static load rating then normal shock eye bushings.

If you have a look at the *ag or SKF bearing cataloge you will see that this special cup needle roller bearing (SKF code: SCE57 for example) offers a basic static load rating of 4850N. If you own a shock with 3 inches of travel an use a 400lbs/inch spring you put at bottom out a minimum of 1200lbs on that bearing. This is equal to 544.32kg which equals a radial force on the bearing of 5339.8N. So nearly 10% over the maximum static load rating. "
Obviously a bearing has a lower load rating than a bushing... that's the whole point of bushings. You're forgetting that bearings are designed with a factor of safety included though, if the bearing has a factor of safety of 2 then a 5000n rated bearing will function up to 10kn.


but it depends on your frame, the upper pivot on my glory undergoes a shitload of rotation, probably close to 30 degree. For $35 I'd happily give it a shot seeing as I constantly have play in these stupid f*cking DU bushings.
yeah I think for the price its a good investment if your frame suits it and the bearing you buy has an appropriate static load rating the improvement in sensitivity is incredible.
flag whitebullit
Posted: Apr 23, 2014 at 4:24 Quote
i have needle bearings on my shocker, with a 3 inch stroke and a 550lb spring i hope i dont encounter any strength issues, but i couldnt be happier with a 35$ upgrade, quieter, smoother, wears slower, looks better too.
flag bikesandfun
Posted: Apr 30, 2014 at 18:23 Quote
So I'm running a 388 lb spring on my Demo right now and it's at like 35% sag. I weigh 160.

I was thinking of buying a 400 lb spring to stiffen it up a bit but since it's only a 12 lb difference I'm wondering if I should just go up to a 450, or if that'd be too stiff?

Also, a bit unrelated but do a lot of world cup guys run less sag than normal (30%ish)?
flag dmadness
Posted: Apr 30, 2014 at 19:41 Quote
388 lb ?? what an odd weight, never heard of it.

35% on a dh is fine, you can add some more compression dampening if you find it too soft ... within reason. you WANT the oil circuits to work and do as much compensating as possible ( most active ) cause this is where your dampening happens, you would rather run suspension too soft than too hard.pro dh riders run stuff a lot firmer than you or I would, they would have it set up per track also, but generally they are hitting speeds in average more than the average guy.

Salute
flag z-man
O+
Posted: Apr 30, 2014 at 21:56 Quote
World cup riders typically aim for 20-25% rear and 15-20% front.

I find 20 front and 25 rear to be the best for speed and aggressive style riding.
flag slidways
Posted: Apr 30, 2014 at 22:35 Quote
bikesandfun wrote:
So I'm running a 388 lb spring on my Demo right now and it's at like 35% sag. I weigh 160.

I was thinking of buying a 400 lb spring to stiffen it up a bit but since it's only a 12 lb difference I'm wondering if I should just go up to a 450, or if that'd be too stiff?

Also, a bit unrelated but do a lot of world cup guys run less sag than normal (30%ish)?

388

The only way it is a 388 is if it has been tested on a spring machine (cant remember the actually name) and it tells you the exact rate

you might buy a 400lbs and ti could be 415 or it could be 385 all springs have a range of accuracy.

What are you feeling that makes you want a stiffer spring?
You need to make sure it is spring rate you are having issues with and not the dampening.
flag bikesandfun
Posted: Apr 30, 2014 at 23:12 Quote
slidways wrote:
bikesandfun wrote:
So I'm running a 388 lb spring on my Demo right now and it's at like 35% sag. I weigh 160.

I was thinking of buying a 400 lb spring to stiffen it up a bit but since it's only a 12 lb difference I'm wondering if I should just go up to a 450, or if that'd be too stiff?

Also, a bit unrelated but do a lot of world cup guys run less sag than normal (30%ish)?

388

The only way it is a 388 is if it has been tested on a spring machine (cant remember the actually name) and it tells you the exact rate

you might buy a 400lbs and ti could be 415 or it could be 385 all springs have a range of accuracy.

What are you feeling that makes you want a stiffer spring?
You need to make sure it is spring rate you are having issues with and not the dampening.

Yeah the one I have right now came on an Ohlins shock, they have weird spring sizes. I wonder if 450 might just be a good call then if a 400lb spring might actually be pretty much the same as mine now?

I'm sitting pretty deep in the travel in corners is the main thing, even with a lot of high speed compression and a fair bit of low speed too.
flag slidways
Posted: May 1, 2014 at 1:44 Quote
bikesandfun wrote:
slidways wrote:
bikesandfun wrote:
So I'm running a 388 lb spring on my Demo right now and it's at like 35% sag. I weigh 160.

I was thinking of buying a 400 lb spring to stiffen it up a bit but since it's only a 12 lb difference I'm wondering if I should just go up to a 450, or if that'd be too stiff?

Also, a bit unrelated but do a lot of world cup guys run less sag than normal (30%ish)?

388

The only way it is a 388 is if it has been tested on a spring machine (cant remember the actually name) and it tells you the exact rate

you might buy a 400lbs and ti could be 415 or it could be 385 all springs have a range of accuracy.

What are you feeling that makes you want a stiffer spring?
You need to make sure it is spring rate you are having issues with and not the dampening.

Yeah the one I have right now came on an Ohlins shock, they have weird spring sizes. I wonder if 450 might just be a good call then if a 400lb spring might actually be pretty much the same as mine now?

I'm sitting pretty deep in the travel in corners is the main thing, even with a lot of high speed compression and a fair bit of low speed too.

Corners will generally be a LSC movement. You may also have too slow rebound if its not actually sitting too deep but just getting bogged down into the corners.

 


Copyright © 2000 - 2024. Pinkbike.com. All rights reserved.
dv42 0.018329
Mobile Version of Website