My Wheel Building Guide

PB Forum :: Mechanics' Lounge
My Wheel Building Guide
Author Message
flag radatabs
Posted: Feb 7, 2015 at 15:02 Quote
seraph wrote:
radatabs wrote:
stymiecat wrote:


Well looks like either Ambrosio's or H plus Son's then.... hmmm....

Thanks for the heads up.

Its because they've cut distributors all our stuff comes direct now

IIRC they've always been direct. Never been able to order them from any of our distributors, always direct. Can get them on complete custom wheels from QBP but not on their own.

Yes what I meant is they used to have a UK warehouse/their own UK based company
flag Barkit
Posted: Mar 21, 2015 at 6:07 Quote
Hi everyone,

I've built my wheels and overall it went very well. However, when I built the wheels I was using and old tensiometer and the conversion chart was not available. As such, I used only relative values to even spoke tensions and I tried to tighten the spokes enough to get robust wheels by judging tension with my hands.

I recently got the Parktool tensiometer and I realized that the readings are beyond the highest specified value on the chart (I use Sapim CX ray spokes and my tension seems to be beyond 163 kgf according to the tool).

I have the impression that going back to even the highest value of the chart will make the spokes a bit too "loose". I guess I may be wrong but my question is the following:

Do you guys think I went way too high in tension and I should drop to values within the range of the chart (i.e. is there a real risk of wrecking the wheel) or do you think it is fine to go with high tension?

EDIT: oddly enough I found out my old wheelset (not build by me - also with Sapim CX Ray) is also running super high tensions according to the chart. I used them without any problem. It seems the park tool chart is totally useless then, do you guys use it and stick to it???
flag stymiecat
Posted: Mar 21, 2015 at 6:51 Quote
Barkit wrote:
Hi everyone,

I've built my wheels and overall it went very well. However, when I built the wheels I was using and old tensiometer and the conversion chart was not available. As such, I used only relative values to even spoke tensions and I tried to tighten the spokes enough to get robust wheels by judging tension with my hands.

I recently got the Parktool tensiometer and I realized that the readings are beyond the highest specified value on the chart (I use Sapim CX ray spokes and my tension seems to be beyond 163 kgf according to the tool).

I have the impression that going back to even the highest value of the chart will make the spokes a bit too "loose". I guess I may be wrong but my question is the following:

Do you guys think I went way too high in tension and I should drop to values within the range of the chart (i.e. is there a real risk of wrecking the wheel) or do you think it is fine to go with high tension?

EDIT: oddly enough I found out my old wheelset (not build by me - also with Sapim CX Ray) is also running super high tensions according to the chart. I used them without any problem. It seems the park tool chart is totally useless then, do you guys use it and stick to it???

In all the wheels I have built over the years, I started out using a spoke tension meter and after my first dozen wheels and having it drive me nuts, it has been set in my tool box and rarely taken out unless building wooden rims.

Some may disagree but by tensioning wheels and making sure your true, and relieving tension as you build you will more than likely exceed the tension recommended anyway.

As you tension, the wheel will let you know when it has had enough and cannot take much more. By that I mean, as the tension get's high, every small turn of the spoke wrench makes a significant impact on the way the rim is pulled to one side or the other.

Many times if the spokes have too little tension on them, or the rims are crappy, they seem to almost live in the truing stand.

One bit of advice is that after you have built the wheel. walk away from it forr a few days and let the spoke settle into the rim, and then put it back into the stand and see if there are any small adjustments that need to be made yet.
flag Barkit
Posted: Mar 21, 2015 at 7:14 Quote
Thanks for your reply stymiecat. I definitely followed your above advices when I built my wheelset and I found them to be extremely helpful. tup

Good to hear your experience about tensiometers.

My main concern is regarding the aluminium hubs because they are recommended at 120 kgf max tension, while I may be at 200, maybe more because it is out of the chart. I think it is unlikely that the current tension will make them snap immediately but I am more concerned that it may fatigue them and drastically shorten their life.

I have the feeling that dropping the tension to Park tool max values is a huge drop though so I am unsure on what to do now Confused .
flag stymiecat
Posted: Mar 21, 2015 at 7:51 Quote
Barkit wrote:
Thanks for your reply stymiecat. I definitely followed your above advices when I built my wheelset and I found them to be extremely helpful. tup

Good to hear your experience about tensiometers.

My main concern is regarding the aluminium hubs because they are recommended at 120 kgf max tension, while I may be at 200, maybe more because it is out of the chart. I think it is unlikely that the current tension will make them snap immediately but I am more concerned that it may fatigue them and drastically shorten their life.

I have the feeling that dropping the tension to Park tool max values is a huge drop though so I am unsure on what to do now Confused .

No worries. and most hubs are fine with high tension as long as you are crossing your spokes on some way. A radial lace and tension will always put the highest amount of stress on any hub and unless it is made for that purpose. This is why many times you will find that major brands will have a disclaimer tag that will recommend that Radial lacing they accept no responsibility for.

I used to have a SPOT brand hub on my single speed mountain bike that was tensioned way high and with all the bashing around it got, I am still using it 5 years later and no problems.
flag Barkit
Posted: Mar 21, 2015 at 7:55 Quote
stymiecat wrote:
Barkit wrote:
Thanks for your reply stymiecat. I definitely followed your above advices when I built my wheelset and I found them to be extremely helpful. tup

Good to hear your experience about tensiometers.

My main concern is regarding the aluminium hubs because they are recommended at 120 kgf max tension, while I may be at 200, maybe more because it is out of the chart. I think it is unlikely that the current tension will make them snap immediately but I am more concerned that it may fatigue them and drastically shorten their life.

I have the feeling that dropping the tension to Park tool max values is a huge drop though so I am unsure on what to do now Confused .

No worries. and most hubs are fine with high tension as long as you are crossing your spokes on some way. A radial lace and tension will always put the highest amount of stress on any hub and unless it is made for that purpose. This is why many times you will find that major brands will have a disclaimer tag that will recommend that Radial lacing they accept no responsibility for.

I used to have a SPOT brand hub on my single speed mountain bike that was tensioned way high and with all the bashing around it got, I am still using it 5 years later and no problems.

Cool, sounds reassuring especially because you talk from experience. I have a 3 cross pattern so all good then.
Thanks a lot for your help!
flag stymiecat
Posted: Mar 21, 2015 at 9:55 Quote
Cool, sounds reassuring especially because you talk from experience. I have a 3 cross pattern so all good then.
Thanks a lot for your help![/Quote]

No worries.. have fun with it...

Learning to do your own wheels is always interesting. I used to take apart old wheels and re build them as I learned as well. So if I messed anything up I did it on a scrap wheel.
flag Barkit
Posted: Mar 21, 2015 at 10:13 Quote
No worries.. have fun with it...

Learning to do your own wheels is always interesting. I used to take apart old wheels and re build them as I learned as well. So if I messed anything up I did it on a scrap wheel. [/Quote]


Ha! I maybe should have done that this is my first wheelset but technically not what we could call a "scrap wheel project" so I better not f*ck it up. Big Grin

On a side note I figured the spokes on the rear wheel, disc side (where the tension is the weakest) do fit into the second to max. value of the chart. When I grab these spokes by hand, I clearly see that this tension could not be applied to a whole wheel without risking of coming out of true easily (or maybe even breaking a spoke). So yeah, either the tensiometer is very badly calibrated when it comes out of factory or the chart values are really off...
flag seraph
Posted: Mar 21, 2015 at 10:33 Quote
Your spokes are going to lose tension after a few rides anyway, so building them at a higher than recommended tension is usually all right.
flag dimitrisz
Posted: Mar 22, 2015 at 1:40 Quote
Hi Guys, i wanted to ask the wheel building experts, some questions. As many have noticed, there is a suggestion that internally wider rims are better for some reasons.I too want to try this.
My question is: can i replace the rims of my mavic crosslines ( rims are 28 hole, 21 mm internal, with straight pull spokes ) with (for example) dt swiss ex471 (28 hole, 25 mm internal) re-using my mavic hubs ( very big cost saving if i re-use them). I understand that the problem will be the spokes, is there compatibility between mavic straight pull spokes and dt swiss rims or any other rims? thanks
flag seraph
Posted: Mar 22, 2015 at 11:46 Quote
Zagos wrote:
Hi Guys, i wanted to ask the wheel building experts, some questions. As many have noticed, there is a suggestion that internally wider rims are better for some reasons.I too want to try this.
My question is: can i replace the rims of my mavic crosslines ( rims are 28 hole, 21 mm internal, with straight pull spokes ) with (for example) dt swiss ex471 (28 hole, 25 mm internal) re-using my mavic hubs ( very big cost saving if i re-use them). I understand that the problem will be the spokes, is there compatibility between mavic straight pull spokes and dt swiss rims or any other rims? thanks

The problem will be getting the measurements off of the hubs. After you get that, you can figure out what length spoke you need, and run almost anything that's straight pull.
flag PbSkot
Posted: Apr 17, 2015 at 12:57 Quote
A great way of getting your spokes to sit correctly after truing the wheel is to sit on the rim in a few different places. You hear the twanging as they bed in. The put the rim back in the jig an give it a spin see if theres an movement in it.

I build motorbike wheels for a living. An the bigger narrower wheels like speedway fronts etc. We always do this method to sit the spokes in the hub correctly
flag seraph
Posted: Apr 18, 2015 at 1:53 Quote
PbSkot wrote:
A great way of getting your spokes to sit correctly after truing the wheel is to sit on the rim in a few different places. You hear the twanging as they bed in. The put the rim back in the jig an give it a spin see if theres an movement in it.

I build motorbike wheels for a living. An the bigger narrower wheels like speedway fronts etc. We always do this method to sit the spokes in the hub correctly

You don't need to sit on the wheel. Simply bracing it against your stomach and pushing down with your elbows will suffice.
flag Tier1
Posted: Apr 18, 2015 at 22:15 Quote
I probably should have asked this before pulling the trigger but how bad is it to use a 28h wheel for the rear of what I'm hoping will be an AM/Enduro shredding machine since it will be subject to more stresses by virtue of being a rear wheel?

I pulled the trigger on a set of DT M480's (650b) on closeout (they only had 28h rims left in stock) along with the DT 350 hubs. According to the calculator I'm supposed to lace them up with 278 and 279mm spokes (28H 3 cross pattern).

I'm hoping to toss something like the Schwalbe Rock Razor (2.35") or Maxxis Ardents (2.4") on it for tires and I'm hoping the tires will be able to take some of the load and deform to reduce transmitted shock to my spokes/rim to keep it fairly true. I know the DT Competition spokes will work but do I want those or should I look into grabbing something like the Alpine III's if I've got less spokes on my rear wheel (also can anyone tell me if the triple butted spokes will fit in the 350 hub)?
flag Theeeeo
O+
Posted: May 13, 2015 at 8:45 Quote
So I calculated my spoke length (it's 267.9) could I get away with running 264mm spokes? It's just I'm trying to rebuild a bike out of spares and I have a tonne of spare spokes lying around but they're all 264mm, many thanks guys!

 


Copyright © 2000 - 2024. Pinkbike.com. All rights reserved.
dv65 0.013741
Mobile Version of Website