Press Release: Introducing the Canfield Brothers' Balance
Canfield Brothers' Balance
The original Balance, released in 2006, was known as one of the first true mini-DH bikes. While our second generation Balance is aimed more for all mountain use, it still retains our original Balance’s aggressive heritage. The goal with the new version was to produce one of the most efficient pedaling bikes in its class, while giving it the classic Canfield Brothers bump eating, DH performance. Designed around 27.5” wheels, the geo was also configured to also run 26′s.
After 10 years of development, we are proud to announce the 2015 Canfield Brothers Balance is in stock and shipping now.
Features
● Patent pending Canfield Balance Formula Suspension
● 160mm travel
● 27.5” and 26” compatible
● 66° head angle, (27.5” with a 160mm Pike)
● 16.75” chainstay
● Front derailleur compatible
● 142x12mm rear spacing
● RockShox Maxle included
● Colors: anodized black or brushed with six different link color options
● Frame weight: 7.5lbs without shock
● Sizes: S, M, L, XL
● Price: $2100 US, (frame and Cane Creek DB Air CS)
● Frame and fork/wheel/crank and pedal packages available
Frame Details
Constructed from 6061 aluminum, the Balance features a tapered headtube, 73mm bottom bracket shell, ISCG tabs, 142 x 12mm rear dropouts and stealth dropper routing. Oversized, 15mm pivots and Enduro Max bearings are incorporated for low maintenance, even in the wettest of environments. Stout tubing was used to to ensure the frame is strong, stiff and ready for hard charging.
Available in anodized black or brushed finishes, with six different link colors.
Suspension Design
Over the last 15 years we have been refining parallel link suspension designs. In 2006 we had an incredible feeling 6” bike, the original Balance, but the subtleties of perfect pedaling were not quite dialed. In 2008 we introduced the next evolution, The One, with a “magical” pedaling feel. Combined with 8" of travel, it was a bump eating machine that pedaled as well as bikes with half its travel.
Seven years later, with a patent pending, our goal with the Balance was to create a super efficient pedaling, 160mm platform, with massive bump eating performance. Utilizing a vertical wheel path, the Balance has a consistent feel, no matter where you are in the travel. A smooth, even, progression rate provides a supple feel off the top, mid stroke support and ramp up at the end to prevent harsh bottom outs. To aid in its pedaling characteristics, we tightened the moving virtual pivots around the chainring to neutralize the forces from the suspension, allowing for maximum power transfer to the drivetrain. Lastly, the instant center moves down through travel eliminating pedal kick, a trait that is prevalent in many bikes in this genre.
Geometry
Special thanks to ReilShift Media for the helping us on this project – Reilly Kintzele, Dakota Huntley and most of all, Trevor Parsons for throwing down on our Balance!
Please see canfieldbrothers.com for more details.
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B. He hit Duane (sp) which is huge, especially on an all mountain bike (atleast imo)
Says someone who's been there. Holes in the berms that would swallow a Volkswagen... I actually Jr to pick up a new bike as my 6,5" is still getting rebuilt from last visit a month ago!
for those who haven't seen Remy riding wild on an AM bike...
www.pinkbike.com/video/373442
anyone who watched that video and thought that the trail was tame has spent way too much time on their couch eating cheetos and watching red bull rampage. That trail had some sick smooth corners that got shredded! however the jumps were huge for an AM bike and there were some chunky sections he absolutely blasted through. Its funny how tough people get behind the keyboard. its like watching my washed up uncle complain about Aaron Rodgers arm strength during Sunday football. watch the video again.
This bike was on a very short list for my next bike until I saw the BB drop.
Another thing is that increases stack to fit 650B wheels (but somehow some manufacturer managed to keep the stack height the same)
enduro-mtb.com/en/vergleichstest-zehn-ews-race-bikes-im-test
I met the Canfield clan, brothers, Sean and Vin, on the boat to a local island gravity hot spot and immediately knew these guys believe in riding, believe in making the best product, and are all around positive community members. Two weeks later I got to demo the balance after riding a Jekyll,sight, range, Bronson, and Mach 6. What caught my attention about the Balance, was the playfulness of the short chain stays, the stiffness of the rear triangle, and the confidence the bike inspired overall. I quickly made an appointment to demo the same bike at Galbraith where we rode for 6 hours and covered anything from EVo-unemployment line-atomic dog (twice) to unknown loamy beauty. The bike made me smile. It made me laugh. It made me scream. The suspension climbs like a Jekyll in the 95mm mode, descends like a nomad, and somehow makes 2 stroke sounds....I immediately sold my ktm to fund my own Balance. I don't regret a thing.
Haters can hate, just ride it and make your decisions off of that. Thanks Canfields. This bike is a dream.
I don't think it'll make you a "better" rider, but after 5 minutes on it, I dropped the biggest ladder I've done to date without hesitation.
I guess it depends on how you define "cross country". Since you are looking at a 160mm trail bike build by downhillers. Take it on the Colorado Trail? Nope. Would I have this as my only bike? Yeah. I would. Would I take it on a 6k ft day? Yeah.
Everything climbs. Like a fat pair of powder skis, the question is often "how much extra are you willing to work on the way up for more fun on the way down?"
However, 7.5 lbs without shock.....??
'The goal with the new version was to produce one of the most efficient pedalling bikes in it's class' Really? The frame without shock is almost the same weight as a V10 with a steel coil.....
Also, please notice the price difference and intentions: to get the same quality bike, but much lighter it would have cost big bucks (after all, pinkbikes favourite joke right now is just how many kidneys you'd have to sell to buy a V10). Yet going for a similiar priced option, although lighter, wouldnt have been as durable.
That was my logic, and my opinion, take it as you will! I'll whack up a user ride report tomorrow (big ride today) to give some actual feedback on the frame! Happy riding
What's special in this suspension design ? I didn't see any. The BB is placed at the and of the front triangle. That's enough to understand the rear susp will compress under pedalling forces.
Or please, describe, what special is made to cheat the mother nature, because actually the pics are made so no one could really see how the susp parts are placed behind the front chainring and etc.
The most pedal efficient full susp bike is made by Mongoose - FreeDrive suspension (Teocali, Bootr, Pinnr, Nugget etc ) and GT - AOS (sterted from 2014y models) suspension. These are actually the same design in slightly different implementations.
Here we have the rear susp do not move when you pedaling even really hard because the pedalling force vector is pointed counter suspension moving vector. That is possible because of the BB placed at the lever link not directly at the front triangle.
Oh, and don't talk about the BB moves behind - this bull**it is already boring, because when you stay on the pedals the front moves forward and that is good.
Travel 8" ?
Whell Mongoose Boot'r and Pinn'r has 210mm of rear travel.
And seems it is not the maximum for this design. But is it necessarily to have more ?
Other designs which use the BB placed at the end point of front triangle are generally meanse the same FOR PEDALLING: whereever the shock placed or whatever the links are made like - when you press the pedal the BB with the front triangle moves down relative to rear susp frame.
Thus you need some "brain" in the shock to distinguish pedal force to block it or suspension force to let it go. There are such shocks. But they all are compromise solution.
Yes, some more "brain" would be good for you and others to explain at least a tiny thing.
Can anyone of you, oh the greatest engineers, explain kindly BUT SERIOUSLY and technically, without stupidity and blah blah what's special in this suspension ? (And any other of the same kind)
Obviously - no any thing.
And if I'm wrong - why ? Describe please.
...if you are all so highly educated in susoensions, as you think.
@ madm3chanic
So It would be nice, please, explain what you are know what I don't, what special in this what's weong in others.
Go on. I really want to know.
Actually, I see the trend: whatever a "fresh" bike design or frame just appears at the Pinkbike rapidly the crowd appears and cries - "IT IS SUPERB! GREAT! I WANT IT! REALLY GENIUOS! I WANT IT" and so on.
Funny
you armchair engineers read some retarded comments about rising rates, stiffness and pedal bob and think you actually know something about suspension, but im gonna give you a massive slap in the face and say you know next to nothing. you probably ride a bike with an air shock im willing to bet.
you say what makes this platform special- i have no idea at all. and i dont pretend to know, because i did not spend the thousands and thousands of hours dialing it over the same tracks, day in day out, over many prototypes over successive years, changing a pivot point 10mm to the left at a cost of thousands of dollars. i have done that for my own frames tho, and im willing to bet my left nut that canfield did that too.
what i do know is that the build quality looks fantastic, and visually it appears to be a fantastic frame worthy of the pages of PB. that alone is worthy of our admiration, because again, little outspoken armchair engineers such as yourself have no idea the kind of effort it takes to make a machine to this kind of quality, consistently.
go away troll, learn life before you try to school it
"you say what makes this platform special- i have no idea at all."
So what are you talking about ?
Obviously again just blah blah.
"changing a pivot point 10mm to the left at a cost of thousands of dollars"
Hahahah! And seems you will do that for next a hundred years for your special frames.
"But im gonna give you a massive slap in the face."
You'd better take an easy, kid.
@BeerGuzlinFool
The same blah blah stuff from you also, man.
Listen, guys, you seems like only WRITERS not readers.
Read what i wrote carefully.
I wrote about the PEDAL EFFICIENCY of this suspension FRAME DESIGN.
Look carefully to the 3D images of the frame at the Canfield webpage. If you have a good imagination you will understand just obvious thing: pressing the pedal the BB will move down-forward relative to wheel axle pivot point.
And the only thing that can make something against it is the SHOCK. So it must be some "brain" inside the shock to distinguish between the pedaling force( when the crank is in it's forward stroking sector ) and the hit to the rear wheel.
It is usually the compromise. And one can dial the shock's shim stack or pivot placment a 100 years resulting in 0.1% better pedaling efficiency, but the problem of loosing energy under pedal strok will persist because of such susp frame design.
Doctor, you сure in wrong place
If you have something special to explain, please do it in tech terms, normal words, without an blind agression and rudeness.
But no one still did.
Ok. I wait, I'm really interested what's special in it. May be something inside frame tubes ? Or the clever dude in the shock ?
Seems the reason is beyond
I'm not going to fight or troll this bike or this company or other company. Just see nothing new and special.
Good bike, however, not so good price IMHO.
That's all, folks. Take an easy.
The Balance generally is very well bike. There is no doubt it is well dh machine.
But about the pedal efficiency of the FRAME design - common, it's making me giggling. The pedal efficiency of that frame design is nothing special. Only the shock can do it's job and add something to make it better.
Vertical rear wheel movement ? Old news.
And what does it mean VERTICAL when you heading down the hill ? Seems purpendicullary to the surface - I'm scared to ride such bike in the steep descent trails.
Ideally the rear wheel should move backward-up to kinda wrap(or slip or flow around -whatever word you like) the obstacle when you moving FORWARD.
Especially when heading down the steep descent hill.
The so called "vertical" movement is simply the maximum that can be achived in such designes where the BB is at the front triangle and the rear susp moves apart.
That's why it is so promoted. Several other companies has that "vertical" movement of the susp.
It is better than forward-up movement.
But it is worse than backward-up movement.
Just see nothing new and special.
Good bike, however, not so good price IMHO.
your idea that "pressing down on the BB moves the BB down-forward" is ignorant to say the least.
you are completely disregarding the force transferred thru the chain, and the effect that can have on the rear wheel. if you put the pivot point (or in the case of this bike, the instant virtual center) above the chain, when you "push the pedal down on the BB" your BB can jump sharply upwards as your pedal stroke is in the apex of its revolution. are you telling me you know where the instant center of this platform is, thru all its stages of travel? i think not. how about its pedal feedback profile? and what does its compression gradient look like Einstein? these are the factors that dictate what you perceive to be "pedal efficiency", which incidentally is a completely unquantifiable expression that people like yourself that know very little about suspension theory bandy about like this years enduro trends.
once again, you know absolutely nothing and you are out of your depth terribly. for you to make statements like "its nothing special" is just plain ignorant. it may be amazing, it may be shit, you have no idea.
ill quite happily "take an easy" once fools like yourself leave my little world.
Generally speaking the more fluid in a shock, the longer it takes to heat up the fluid to the point of thinning and fading.
Xc shocks like a fox float use a tiny amount of fluid, and fade pretty quick. dh shocks like a vivid ccdb use the same amount of oil in the coil and air versions and neither really have fade issues.
The only down side to air shocks is having additional seal which can add friction to the initial movement of the shock. These seals are getting super dialed and smooth, so anyone who has ridden a pike fork, vivid air, or ccdba will generally tell you that that they are super smooth.
Canfield are renowned for the rearward axle path bikes. More-so than pretty much any other brand, so maybe do some research there. The Balance is their least rearward axle path bike. With better rolling 650b wheels and a desire for simplicity, public acceptance, pedaling efficiency, shock technology, suspension design and intended usage, they've obviously come to the conclusion this is the best BALANCE of compromise to use for this bikes intended use.
Where did you find me talking about URT ?
GT AOS is not URT, you're wrong.
"I like the look of the High pivot Enduro GT(whatever it's called again)"
What does it mean CALLED AGAIN ? Previously till 2014 there was I-Drive and it is just totally different suspension design and approach.
Now they make AOS, it is really the same of Mongoose FreeDrive with some improvements.
It really do the job, rear part moves backwrad-up eating bumps like crazy.
And it is not a high pivot or low pivot like one can find at the suspensions with the BB placed at the front triangle.
It is wrong to describe AOS or FreeDrive with the characteristics of conventional susp where the BB is placed at the front triangle.
BB moves slightly backward RELATIVE to the FRONT TRIANGLE.
But you stay on the pedals, you move with BB, so relative to you it's not moving. Isn't it good to move the weight backward when heading down the hill or jumping ?
Sitting on the saddle the moving of the BB is not even noticable as like as standing on the pedals.
When pedalling everything stays still like hardtail frame. What to need more ?
...No any pedal bobs or other issues, what are you talking about ?
I can't really understand why the people like you try to invent the problems that not really exist in FreeDrive or AOS.
I have Mongoose Teocali, ride everything I want and can, there is no any issues you talk about.
And the pedal efficiency is just like hardtail. No difference at all. Without any expensive shocks or other "propedal brain" stuff.
There is no need in shock lockout here!
Also there is no any issues with the linkage, my weight 85kg, I dropped 1.5m on this bike.
The pivots are 10mm solid steel, bearings 28x10x8
GT made AOS even with 15mm diameter linkage pivots. It's more than enough.
People used to old suspension designs are affraid of something new and unusual tend to invent a virtual problems making the elephant from the bug.
Other people, like Madm3chanic, maddly know everything about the suspensions. That's why they're not able to invent new things and make a breakthrough.
Seems the guys from GT and Mongoose do not know everything about the suspensions, thus they were able to make the most pedal friendly suspension design.
Well, I agree that AOS with 130mm-140mm is not enough for some really big drops about 5m.
But look at mongoose Pinn't or Boot'r, it is a sick DH machine, FreeDrive susp there has 210mm of rear travel.
I saw the guys in 2014 Whistler DH ridding Mongoose.
Other example is Chriss Ackrigg doing crazy things riding his Teocali.
But it is not the point.
The essense is that I never told the Canfield Balance is BAD bike.
I asked what is new and special in their SUSPENSION FRAME DESIGN (appart from shock) ?
Still did not receive the answer, besides just rudeness, mad pseudo engineeirng bull..it from the guys that did not konw theirself (as they wrote it) and who just trying to make things complicated hazing the essence.
And also I still presume the pedalling efficiency is not the best.
The Giant has already a couple of years ago designed the suspension that very pedal friendly (as they told) and where the BB is on the front triangle and rear frame moving vertically.
Who else...well, what about Spec Demo 8 susp desing ? Isn't it also very pedal friendly and veritcally moving ?
And so on.
So, what is new here apart from others? Just good DH bike for acceptable money.
I agree, the Canfield try to make things more acceptable for people - yes, it really so, comparing the $2100 for this bike to $2500...$4000...$9000 for some others.
There is the simple question:
- will this suspension frame design work just the same pedal friendly and bump eating with MUCH SIMPLER than Cane Creek DB shock (like long DH springer kinda Fox vanilla or other ) ?
I'm very doubt it will.
On the other hand:
- will one feel the difference in pedaling efficiency if to substitute the CaneCreek DB shock just with the rigid steel stick (or totally frimly lock the shock)?
I presume - yes.
And of course, I'm interested to try and test and compare it. No doubt.
just go away mate, you are a [penis] and nobody wants to hear your stupid opinions. you really have to face facts that when someone demonstrates that when you can not back up your silly childish opinions, you need to back down and take it on the chin. i feel you are missing some very basic concepts about suspension design in your narrow minded pursuit of some other designs, and a very limited understanding of what you perceive as a "brain" design in a shock (unless of course you're talking about telemetry, but i see no evidence to suggest you even know what that means).
you are a hipster lightweight punching in the heavys here mate, just know when to stay down.
Oh, you still alive !? I'm surprised, cause you seemed were at the insult stage.
Look, pivoted creature, seems like your really purple-mad in your little all-suspension world.
Who in healthy mind will accept you seriously after this madness you're writnig ?
Your posts full of sh..t to fog the essense.
That not me who continue to alienate myself but you who continues to pour rudeness on me and others.
Your posts have no any usefull thing about the essense of my questions and doubts.
Why do you start writing @me and still do ? No one reads you, dude
please justify your arguments using actual quantifiable terms, not pseudo-science and opinion. then you will have submitted a comment worth reading!
please, i invite you to the stage; justify a single one of your claims using actual science, and i will continue the conversation old chap! if not, i will leave you in the hole that you have so neatly dug yourself.
and please, i implore you, use proper english! its hard to debate your senselessness when you cannot write in received dictation.
"you are completely disregarding the force transferred thru the chain, and the effect that can have on the rear wheel. "
You claim me completely disregarding but it is you who admit that nonsence, I do not even admit it.
And then you derive the bullsh..t from your nonsence adressing it to me.
You're really mad.
The force is transfered through the chain everytime you push the pedal. So I imply it everytime when talking about pedal pushing.
Because for me it is nonsence when the real (not futue prototype)bike that no have a chain or the force is not transfered somehow through it.
And you seems know the situations when the force is not transfered through the chain under the pedal push ?
Very interesting really.
Yes, you are right, this is the problrem of such designs. That's why the pivots are placed low.
Tell me please, where did you see and what design you are particulary describing ?
What does it mean "if to put the pivot point above the chain..." who do that ????
Canfield in Balance design do it ? No. It is low pivoted.
So what are you talking about ? and why ?
"when you "push the pedal down on the BB" your BB can jump "
CAN JUMP....Hmm and also CAN NOT, right ?
So will it ? When? Why ? What if can not ? Under what circumstances ?
One more time: what design you are particullary talk of ?
Dude, what do you trying to do here, I can't understand ?
I made the simple statements about this design: the design is no innovative as for me, the pedalling efficiency is not the best.
That's all.
But the overal bike is well.
So why you call me a troll ????
And you fogged the things with unnecessary "IF TO PUT" and "CAN"
Everyone knew long ago what can be "if to put..." without you, no matter you think about people here are noobs or other bad words.
I call this design not new "as is", already implied all the pivot puts and virtual "can_s".
And the last but not the least:
so you think the AOS and FreeDrive is of a wrong pivot placement cheap crapy designs that has a pedal bobs, BB jumps upwards and unfriendly pedalling ?
If yes - you just an idiot.
" i pour rudeness on you "and others"? so who are these others onto whom i pour rudeness? no, it is entirely yourself. but if i offend, i apologise."
What a light simple man you are: one time just poured rudeness, just the other time appologized!
Very simple! Of course why not! there is no any responsibility here!
Well done!
But you must to do something more than just write "I APPOLOGIZE" to me accept your appologizes and not a one time but for every single bad word used towards me.
Because it is you who startde this unpleasent things to write here in my adress.
And you
Man, you are fantastically impudent fellow!
2 days ago you officialy has written:
"you say what makes this platform special- i have no idea at all. and i dont pretend to know..."
After that you wrote so much in my adress HAVING NO IDEA AT ALL about that suspension, but pretending you do!
So who you are ?
And as for me I just see nothing new and innovate in this design, doubt it is best pedal friendly - that's all.
I'm not obliged to justify any argument to you after all that. You are blank place for me.
I'm end on this.
You can write whatever you want trying to proove you know everything about suspensions.
and come now, lets not take my words out of context. you know as well as i that when i stated i have no idea at all, i was referring to how nice it felt to ride, not the fundamentals behind a short-link 4-bar (what you probably know as a VPP) suspension platform. or perhaps you did not even realise this bike is indeed a short link 4-bar?
it somewhat surprises me that you choose to end this debate; after all of your "rebuttals" i thought you would not be bright enough to realise when you are clearly making yourself out to have no knowledgeable opinion whatsoever.
in the interest of maintaining an intelligent debate, would you like me to prove to you the concept of positive bottom bracket displacement upon pedaling? because if you believe it to be impossible, you are sorely misinformed, child
once again, you have made the claim that "pedaling efficiency is not the best" of this bike; so now i implore you- define for me what it is that you conceive as "pedaling efficiency", and explain to me how you arrived at the conclusion that in this frame, it is "not the best"?
Bikecustomizer. GT RTS, SUNN Radical, GT IT, Lahar, many others share the suspension design of the GT Enduro bike(I'm talking about the high pivot one, I can't recall it's name, as I tried to say before). Accept with the new GT, the BB is on the linage.
I love my Mongoose EC 4X, one of the most fun bikes I've ever owned.
The big travel mongooses feel boring and non plush though IMO.
Without seeing the wheel path, leverage curves, anti squat etc, it's not really worth commenting on the Balance having nothing new suspension wise. There's no need to have a totally new design when small tweeks can change an existing style design a great deal and change the bikes balance of compromise a lot to favor something different.
I referred to the GT and Mongoose as URTs in Jest, they are the closest design to an URT, but yes, they're different.
You have made some interesting points, it's hard to see some through your English though(no offense meant).
Yep, I agree, becaues English is not my native language. Sorry for mistakes, but I just try to describe my thoughts in my words not complicating the essence.
Nevertheless, seems you're understanding me, isn't it ?
I'm not any angry at all
Ok, now I see GT RTS and others.Yep, absolutely agree - it is high pivot design. Just obviously.
But new GT AOS is just another story. It is even NOT the same as I-Drive. And it is the same as FreeDrive of Mongoose and Schwinn Rocket Comp.(Oh yeah! Cheap crap! of course! don't buy! etc.)
Mongoose EC 4X ? Oh, dude, seems like you as me also riding teenage cheap crap bike
About boring and non plush...well, what if try another better shock ? I can't say it is boring for me or non plush. Depends of weight and air preassure.
Where one could get the wheel path, leverage curves, anti squat etc. when there are no any info on this particular suspension design even at official web page ?
The only what is allowed are pics and 3D images that shows nothing special in susp frame linkage design and many text about how beautiful it is.
Well, I don't beleive the words.
" There's no need to have a totally new design when small tweeks can change an existing style design ....."
Here I should disagree a little: If it eats tremendous money=energy, time then one should be self warned - am I doing rightway ? if the solution is so hard achived or there is no solution in this current system seems like it needs to make a stepout from the system or leave it to completely different solution at another level, that free of base problems of the previous system and takes radically less efforts ?
Hope you understand that English
Yep, they are close VISUALLY but are different.
May be the same with the Balance: looks the same as many.
But, damn, why do not to show what is special and different ?
You missed my point about GT RTS, SUNN Radical, GT IT, Lahar, many others, They're not just also high pivots, they share the same linkage desgin accept the new Force has the riders weight on a semi unsprung part of the suspension.
I owned Teocalis. Very boring un plush bike. Might be the shock, but other bikes felt better with same shock.
Companies don't print all data probably because E engineers that get a diagnostic wrong can mislead potential customers easily.
If we talk about GT Force it has the "I-Drive" susp and it is not the same as Angle Optimized Susp(AOS)
The "AOS" is the newest GT's suspension design. But it is the same as FreeDrive of Mongoose, just look
And the BB is on the link-lever also.
Am I missing something... You have Mongoose EC 4X, you told love it. It has the same FreeDrive susp as Teocali.
So why then Teocali is unplush and very boring ? But if you think so, it is your decision.
Might be not only the shock but also the fork and rider weight/shock setup.
I like mine, at least at this time.
By the way, I've looked through the Canfield web site and found several interesting things
-JEDI frame(very interesting) and it's description
-and the shock tuning positions images for Balance, particulary Low Speed Comp string: Supple to Pedal Efficiency
Mongoose 4X is basically a plush hardtail, it's great at that ;-) Teocalis suspension is docile and lifeless feeling, same with Booters I've ridden, guessing because you're standing on a moving part. They're feel nimble, but that's about it.
Do a test on either GT with about the same travel and a Canfield Balance, report back then, otherwise your statements are relying on your engineering skills and our diagnosis of your English translating.
AOS is not the best suspension design for everything and everyone, no suspension design is. The Balance may well be a better Balance. From my experiences on it and Mongooses, I'd quite confidently say it is for most things. Keen to ride a Force, but I think it'll reaffirm my Mongoose findings, hopefully better though.
I think this conversation is over, we've all made our points, we're just rambling now.
Balance is an awesome little bike.
Yep, you're right. 2014 Force is AOS now.
But in 2013 it was I-Drive: www.gtbicycles.com/usa_en/force-1-0
The Fury is I-Drive still.
Mongoose EC 4X is the same suspension that Teocali, isn't it ?
Then how can the Teocali be lifeless and the EC 4X not ?
DOCILE AND LIFELESS...may be I'm missing something but the word "DOCILE" means "easily taught"...and LIFELESS seems like not so easily taught.
The Boot'r and Pinn'r alos has the same susp DESIGN as EC 4X, Teocali.
I'm talking only about the DESIGN apart from shock.
What fork and shock were on your Teo and EC 4X ?
I agree with "guessing because you're standing on a moving part." Yes, but the pedalling efficiency is superb. And I like it very much because I ride more kinda not DH than DH.
I think just the plushness and supple is not the main goal. And I can live with the style of working of FreeDrive Teocali, because I' pedalling much. It has enough plush for me.
JEDI Canfield is much better than Balance. It has 3" backward moving and 8" of upward. And other things.
Zerode is just the best seems.
Just look and read at their site - it just confirm my thoughts and words.
But the Balance is good, of course. I never tell contrary.
Then how can the Teocali be lifeless and the EC 4X not ?"
Yes. But as a hardtail style bike(sub 4 inch travel) it is good, as I said. For a trail bike, most want Pedaling and plushness. Can't recall what shocks. 4X has a tiny rockshox in it.
"I think just the plushness and supple is not the main goal. And I can live with the style of working of FreeDrive Teocali, because I' pedalling much. It has enough plush for me."
The Balances target cliental I don't think are focussed mainly on riding up. It's made by guys passionate about DH, one of the Canfield Brothers goes in Red Bull Rampage. They've made it more pedal friendly, but it's not an XC bike ;-)
"JEDI Canfield is much better than Balance. It has 3" backward moving and 8" of upward. And other things."
Better for what? It's a DH bike. Balance is as the name suggests ;-)
I have a Zerode, it's great. Would like to try a Jedi.
Everyone loves their Balance because it's awesome fun. Ride one and see. If non fun stuff like riding up is your main focus then stick with the Goose and maybe see a doctor or dominatrix ;-)
Let this die now. You have proved your dislike is because you are more focussed on pedaling, pretty safe to say others reading this in future aren't like minded with you,so don't taint it for them aye.
...Dominatrix !?!?!?!? OH MY GOD, NO!!!!
...Gone to buy the Canfield Balance.
The Balance seems the better Balance, spreading it's purpose further than either of the equivalent GTS.
Ultimately the system should be as fun and predictable to ride as, say, and Orange Alpine, but with improved pedalling and braking (anyone who's owned an Orange knows how predictable and fun they are).
remember the concept of "instant center" refers to the center of rotation at any given point of its compression, so that point can change considerably at any stage of the suspension's movement.
By Canfield specifying "vertical" it does kinda suggest that the wheel moves straight upwards, which would require that the IC either moves upwards too, or is an extremely long way in front of the front axle. They however suggest it moves downwards. I still agree with Ad-j, this is a bit strange....
Ride one man, if you still give a damn about not having the lightest bike bragging rights, then don't buy one. If you realize fun, speed or Confidence offer you more, get the Balance.
My mate has one, couldn't be happier, hitting stuff he wasn't before on his first ride, hadn't even played with shock or forks much yet. and faster.
...and you all thought id say 'session'!