1 Question - The Biggest Mistake That's Been Made In Mountain Biking
All of us have made a few good mistakes during our time on earth, some of them being far worse than others. For instance, people get their head and hands tattooed, which is a minor error in judgement compared to the time Shimano tried to make brake levers double as shifter paddles. Different shades of wrong, you see, as the first example only makes one person look silly, while the latter managed to make an entire group of cyclists look pretty foolish.
But what about the bigger picture? What about the errors that might have literally changed mountain biking as we know it? We all love this sport, I know, but mistakes have been made and sometimes it pays to look back and have a think on them so we don't tattoo our metaphorical head more than once. This isn't a 'sit in the corner and think about what you've done' moment, however, but more of a look back at some of the most impactful blunders and bad choices that have been made in our sport.
Below, nine industry rainmakers weigh in with their opinions as to what they each believe was the worst mistake of all.
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Bryson Martin - Owner and Founder, DVO Suspension
The thirty-plus years that Bryson has been embedded in the mountain bike industry have seen him focus on pretty much one thing and one thing only: suspension. Twenty-two of those years were spent at Marzocchi, where he played a major role in bringing to life the Bomber series (including the game-changing Z1), the RAC, Monster T, Shiver, 888, and many more. Suspension nerds everywhere had their eyes rolling into the backs of their heads when Bryson announced that he was leaving to found a new company, DVO Suspension, and he's followed that announcement up with the release of both the Emerald downhill fork and the Diamond mid-travel offering, as well as a few different shocks.
The thirty-plus years that Bryson has been embedded in the mountain bike industry have seen him focus on pretty much one thing and one thing only: suspension. Twenty-two of those years were spent at Marzocchi, where he played a major role in bringing to life the Bomber series (including the game-changing Z1), the RAC, Monster T, Shiver, 888, and many more. Suspension nerds everywhere had their eyes rolling into the backs of their heads when Bryson announced that he was leaving to found a new company, DVO Suspension, and he's followed that announcement up with the release of both the Emerald downhill fork and the Diamond mid-travel offering, as well as a few different shocks.
 | After being in the bike biz since 1980, this was a hard question to funnel into one solid answer, but I have to say that the mountain bike market really took a tumble after the UCI took over the racing program here in the USA. I'm sure there were other contributing factors that accelerated its demise, but the UCI had a lot to do with it. I recall all the incredible World Cup downhill events that we had through North America, large crowds, great outside sponsors like Chevy Trucks, SoBe drinks, Volvo, Volkswagen, etc. Sure, the market took a bit of a dip in overall popularity here, but without any large and officially sanctioned races happening, with the exception of Windham in NY, racing and the overall market really took a hit. For local racers wanting to someday be part of the World Cup downhill circuit, moving to Europe is the only option, and that alone makes it very difficult for our young juniors and first year pros to accomplish it. I have a junior development racing program with Incycle and these kids dream of being the next Aaron Gwin, but the caliber of events and depth of World Cup style tracks are mainly in Europe. Geographically, this makes getting your feet wet and honing your skills very difficult, and attending the amazingly LAME Sea Otter Classic won't get you closer to being a UCI DH contender. Maybe it's time for some of the large bike manufacturers to get together and equally fund a new high-quality racing program similar to the iXS DH Series in Europe. Maybe then the UCI might realize that the USA has an equal right to have more WC racing here. The market is here, the riders are keen, we have amazing locations, the mountain bike was invented here, so whats the deal, UCI? |
Ken Avery - Vice Pres, Marketing / Product, Vittoria
While Ken's name might not be familiar to some outside of the industry, he's the man who's largely responsible for one of the most widely used Maxxis downhill tires in recent times. Fast forward a handful of years and Avery is now working to bring the Vittoria range up to speed, with a number of new models recently being released.
While Ken's name might not be familiar to some outside of the industry, he's the man who's largely responsible for one of the most widely used Maxxis downhill tires in recent times. Fast forward a handful of years and Avery is now working to bring the Vittoria range up to speed, with a number of new models recently being released.
| To say that this is a mistake is tough, as I like to think that we learn from experiences, but my nod for the biggest mistake is the lack of a unified set of industry standards. Typically, as an industry grows, trends are established and things become more streamlined. This brings prices down, makes products easier for consumers to understand, and brings stability to an industry. Especially in the past few years, the only ''standard'' in the bike biz seems to be change. Admittedly, in an industry founded on individuality, change pushes the evolution towards better gear, which makes the riding more fun. However, disorganized change can be crippling. With three (primary) wheel sizes, endless axle combinations, rim widths, cassette interfaces, bar diameters, head tubes, etc, it's a lot to keep up with. This is especially true for independent bicycle dealers who are expected to stock parts and service riders who could have any number of combinations of the above. For new riders looking to get into the sport, it's daunting. From a product design perspective, it's a challenge in that tooling costs alone have risen, not to mention the added cost of overhead. Want to make a simple wheelset for trail use? Prepare to produce, stock, and service a minimum of six variations, not including cassette drivers and rotor compatibility. All of this adds cost, as well as complexity, neither of which helps. Hey, at least it keeps it interesting, right? |
Craig Glaspell - Bicycle Global Marketing, Troy Lee Designs
Craig ''Stikman'' Glaspell's career has seen him go from working as a shop mechanic in Redondo Beach, California, to wrenching on the National and World Cup circuits for some of the quickest racers in the around. He's keeping things a bit more local these days, although he's still working with the fastest racers out there as the Bicycle Global Marketing man at Troy Lee Designs.
Craig ''Stikman'' Glaspell's career has seen him go from working as a shop mechanic in Redondo Beach, California, to wrenching on the National and World Cup circuits for some of the quickest racers in the around. He's keeping things a bit more local these days, although he's still working with the fastest racers out there as the Bicycle Global Marketing man at Troy Lee Designs.
| My view is a racing one, and it's about the fragmentation of racing. Events like Sea Otter, while not having optimal courses for enduro, cross-country, downhill or slalom, at least gets the entire cycling family together. This is needed for the sport and the industry to grow. Splitting all the sports up and getting away from big World Cup triple-events and big festivals with racing has slowed progression in every regard. There is strength in numbers, and the larger multi-discipline events are what spawned growth. Let's get all of mountain biking back as much as we can and stop splitting up race series across the globe. |
Gary Fisher - Chief Consultant On Everything Great About Cycling, Trek
You think you're an OG? Gary was right in the thick of it when this whole mountain bike thing was taking off in the mid-70s in California, and he's still around today. His earliest off-road creation was based on a Schwinn Excelsior X from the 1930s, complete with brake levers taken from a motorbike, three chain rings to allow it to be ridden up the mountain, and drum brakes to replace the coaster brake. Gary went on to start Gary Fisher Mountain Bikes in 1983, and the brand would be acquired by Trek ten years later, which is a long way from the time he was suspended from road racing in 1968 because his hair was too long.
You think you're an OG? Gary was right in the thick of it when this whole mountain bike thing was taking off in the mid-70s in California, and he's still around today. His earliest off-road creation was based on a Schwinn Excelsior X from the 1930s, complete with brake levers taken from a motorbike, three chain rings to allow it to be ridden up the mountain, and drum brakes to replace the coaster brake. Gary went on to start Gary Fisher Mountain Bikes in 1983, and the brand would be acquired by Trek ten years later, which is a long way from the time he was suspended from road racing in 1968 because his hair was too long.
| It was the early nineties and mountain bikes were on fire, and ESPN and the X Games were hot to show the world. Riders were making big money and endorsements were rolling in. I was on the board of trustees at NORBA and we did something totally wrong - we cheaped out! The courses we used were whatever we found, ranching roads, hiking trails, and nothing really fun to ride or to watch someone ride on. And the television production was the lowest bidder takes all. The shows were boring and a big failure. The advertisers ran! NORBA was dead. I am so grateful for the new courses, riders and contests! I knew there was an outrageous sport in there! |
Leigh Donovan - Downhill World Champion, MTB and BMX Hall of Famer
Leigh's success on two wheels started early, with a National Championship BMX title that eventually led her to 26'' wheels (remember those?) many years later. Nine National Championships, a World Championship downhill win in 1995, and a 2001 UCI World Cup Championship all came later, along with inductions into both the Mountain Bike and BMX Hall of Fame. You'd have a hard time getting any of those stats out of Leigh these days, though, with her new focus being ichoosebikes, a skills camp that's aimed at introducing more women to mountain biking.
Leigh's success on two wheels started early, with a National Championship BMX title that eventually led her to 26'' wheels (remember those?) many years later. Nine National Championships, a World Championship downhill win in 1995, and a 2001 UCI World Cup Championship all came later, along with inductions into both the Mountain Bike and BMX Hall of Fame. You'd have a hard time getting any of those stats out of Leigh these days, though, with her new focus being ichoosebikes, a skills camp that's aimed at introducing more women to mountain biking.
| From a racer's perspective, I'd have to say that putting cross-country in the Olympics was the single biggest mistake that has been made in mountain biking. Once that happened, the dynamic of the sport changed. The cross-country racers became the focus for the governing bodies and the gravity athletes became the stepchildren. Before this happened, teams had both cross-country and downhill racers traveling and staying together, and it was a family of racers. We weren't defined for what category we raced, we were just mountain bike racers. The separation between the categories confused corporate sponsorship and ended financial relationships that we have yet to regain twenty years later. |
Joel Smith - General Manager, X-Fusion
Smith is an industry veteran, with a half decade spent at Mountain Biker Magazine that came before nine years at Manitou, five owning and running Tomac, and now as the General Manger at X-Fusion Shox. There's also the small matter of him still being able to tear the legs off of racers half his age, which makes him one of the few industry heavyweights who can hold his own behind a desk and behind the handlebar.
Smith is an industry veteran, with a half decade spent at Mountain Biker Magazine that came before nine years at Manitou, five owning and running Tomac, and now as the General Manger at X-Fusion Shox. There's also the small matter of him still being able to tear the legs off of racers half his age, which makes him one of the few industry heavyweights who can hold his own behind a desk and behind the handlebar.
| The biggest mistake in our industry has been our cynicism (unfortunately, I am one of the worst offenders). We are too cynical to come together in a serious way to tackle issue like trail advocacy, parts standardization, safety standards, legislation, etc, so we just continue to work independently and mostly counter-productively as if we are all secret NSA organizations that are protecting our respective turf. |
Vernon Felton - Senior Editor, Bike Magazine
Vernon has been penning reviews and other editorial for Bike Magazine since 1998, which means that you've likely read something by him during that time, especially considering that his thoughts have also been featured in everything from Adventure Sports magazine to Playboy. These days you're also likely to come across the Bellingham-based writer's refreshingly opinionated column, 'The Web Monkey Speaks', on Bike's website, where he sounds off on everything from land access issues to our complete lack of fashion sense.
Vernon has been penning reviews and other editorial for Bike Magazine since 1998, which means that you've likely read something by him during that time, especially considering that his thoughts have also been featured in everything from Adventure Sports magazine to Playboy. These days you're also likely to come across the Bellingham-based writer's refreshingly opinionated column, 'The Web Monkey Speaks', on Bike's website, where he sounds off on everything from land access issues to our complete lack of fashion sense.
| I cried when Gwin won that World Cup race without a chain. Cried like some giant, man-baby, it was so beautiful. I can't get enough of racing... Hell, it's why I named my first daughter ''John Tomac''. That might make her dating life awkward, but we all have our crosses to bear. Yep, love me some racing, but I also believe the bike industry's biggest mistake was to sink so much money into professional racing for so many years and, relatively speaking, so little money into trail advocacy and development. How many companies had team managers, masseurs, fancy big rigs, World Cup teams and national series squads? Now, how many companies fielded full-time advocacy directors? I can count them on one hand - that's downright shitty. Racing is inspiring, but all the shiny trophies in the world did nothing to grow our trail systems or increase access to the many places we still can't ride. If Julien Absalon wins his seventh World Cup Overall title this year, will it actually make mountain biking any better for you? We're in a better, more balanced, place these days. I see things like the Bell Built grant program and I know we're on the right track. Still, we need to increase our investment in the one thing that actually makes riding better for riders - trails. |
Richard Cunningham - Tech Editor, Pinkbike
How do you sum up RC? You probably can't, but the fact that he's done everything from manufacturing and selling his own mountain bikes in the early 80s, to designing and building his own plane gives you an idea as to how he likes to spend his time, and to this day you're still likely to find him doodling a new component or figuring out a way to improve an existing one. That way of thinking suits him well as Technical Editor here at Pinkbike, as it did for so many years when he was at Mountain Bike Action, and, as you can see below, all these years in the industry definitely hasn't dulled his opinionated ways.
How do you sum up RC? You probably can't, but the fact that he's done everything from manufacturing and selling his own mountain bikes in the early 80s, to designing and building his own plane gives you an idea as to how he likes to spend his time, and to this day you're still likely to find him doodling a new component or figuring out a way to improve an existing one. That way of thinking suits him well as Technical Editor here at Pinkbike, as it did for so many years when he was at Mountain Bike Action, and, as you can see below, all these years in the industry definitely hasn't dulled his opinionated ways.
| Burn me at the stake, but the greatest shortcoming of the sport has been its religious adherence to the belief that professional competition is its ultimate expression, and in the same breath, that television coverage is somehow going to be our great salvation. History is my witness. Every time our sport has enjoyed a massive growth, it has come from grassroots riders. Every time an aspect of our sport has plummeted, it occurred shortly after it was reorganized into a professional venue and amateur riders were excluded from participation. Every time a lifestyle sport has been produced for television, it blows out the flame. The X Games burn through ''extreme sports'' faster than San Diego sailors burn through toilet paper after a weekend in Tijuana. Red Bull only needs one fatality to go poof and leave the FMB holding an empty bag. And, the Olympics? Name the cross-country winners since Atlanta and in BMX without naming Anne Caro. Who got second place at the last three Rampages? Amateur racing survives, of course, but the lifeline has been cut. Cross-country, downhill, 24-hour events, trans-alpine, freeride and bikepark were massively popular and massively attended - right up until the moment that they were ripped from the hands of average riders and turned into pro-only venues. It's a bitter pill to swallow for those who believed they were part of a movement only to be locked out of the game and sidelined as spectators. Before you start wrapping sticks with linen and dipping them into kerosene, I recognize that professional racing and freeride competition has its place within the body of the sport, but only as an appendage. It never has been, nor ever can be, the heart and soul of mountain biking. Racing itself is not the issue here, and Strava is evidence enough that there is a racer in almost every one of us. Mountain biking, however, is a lifestyle sport and as riders we need to perceive ourselves as being part of the whole. |
Charlie Sponsel - Pro Racer, Top Robot
Some might say that Sponsel is an eccentric that sits on the fringe of the cycling industry, while others would tell you that he's leading the charge when it comes to spitting truth. Either way you look at it, Charlie isn't one to hold back when he writes his often rambling yet completely sensical diatribes on whatever topic he feels needs to be addressed. All this usually goes down on the Team Robot blog (put aside a few hours if you end up there), but it seemed right to turn to him again given the subject matter. Oh, and Charlie also races in enduro and gravity events to mid-pack finishes for Felt Bikes and Gravity Components.
Some might say that Sponsel is an eccentric that sits on the fringe of the cycling industry, while others would tell you that he's leading the charge when it comes to spitting truth. Either way you look at it, Charlie isn't one to hold back when he writes his often rambling yet completely sensical diatribes on whatever topic he feels needs to be addressed. All this usually goes down on the Team Robot blog (put aside a few hours if you end up there), but it seemed right to turn to him again given the subject matter. Oh, and Charlie also races in enduro and gravity events to mid-pack finishes for Felt Bikes and Gravity Components.
| That's an easy one. The worst mistake in the history of mountain biking is the industry's recent obsession with ''growing the sport.'' In industry circles it's taken as gospel truth that more consumers is always better. ''A rising tide floats all boats,'' they say, and that logic has been used to justify any and all efforts to attract new mountain bike consumers, no matter how marginal these consumers may be, and no matter how disinterested they may be in the actual act of mountain biking. ''If we can attract new riders, we can finally do XYZ policy initiative,'' they say. With ''new riders'' apparently being the self-evident solution for everything from slow revenue-growth at your favourite bike brand, to race support, to trail access problems in your riding community. Obviously the reason XYZ bike brand had to cut your favourite rider off the downhill team is because they didn't sell enough SLX-equipped hardtails. The reason you can't have a new jump trail at your local riding area is because there aren't enough green-level beginner loops. ''If only we could attract more new riders, then we could finally do [fill in the blank with your preferred pipe dream].'' Mountain biking is a beautiful thing. It's also an inherently dangerous activity, but it rewards you in proportion to the risks you take. Point down the hill and you go fast. Let off the brakes and you go faster. The less you brake in turns, the more speed you carry out. Want to catch some air? You'll have to leave the ground first. Risk is as essential to the sport as wheels or handlebars. If you don't want to skin your knee, get lost, get hypothermia or bonk from time to time, you never want to risk wearing a cast for a few weeks, and you want your trails smoothly groomed, straight with good sight lines, well-marked and not too fast or pointed downhill, maybe you should take up jogging or spin class instead of mountain biking. And yet these are exactly the sort of marginal consumers that bicycle manufacturers, trail builders, and bike parks are drooling for the chance to ''bring into the sport.'' I have no problem with more people riding bikes, and I don't even have a problem with growing the sport. But the idea of lowering the bar or dumbing down mountain biking to make it more appealing to marginal consumers who could just as soon be in Zumba class? It's insulting, it's offensive, and it's counter-productive. Mountain biking is amazing. It's so much fun that it's basically ruined my life. From my first trip to Whistler I was hooked, and despite countless crashes, flat tires, wrong turns, rainy days, concussions, broken bones, surgeries, and more losing race results than I'd care to remember, I keep coming back to mountain bikes, and I probably will for the rest of my life. And hey, no one had to dumb it down for me to get hooked. Let's sell that idea instead. Let's sell mountain biking as its real self instead of some spoon fed, bite-sized harmless fitness/healthy outdoor lifestyle-based shadow of itself. And guess what? If you don't want to skin your knee, there are lots of other healthy outdoor lifestyle sports out there for you, like rollerblading, geocaching, or frisbee golf. Lets market our sport honestly so we can attract like-minded individuals instead of trying to trick disinterested potential consumers into a slower, safer, dumber version of ''Mountain Bike Lite.'' Maybe if we do that we can enjoy riding with passionate, knowledgeable, dedicated lifelong consumers instead of weaving through mobs of weekend warrior working dads trying out a new alternative to spin class. And out of those two demographics, bonus points if you can guess who gives more money back to the industry. |
Did one of them nail it? Is anyone out to lunch? Let's hear your thoughts as to what you feel has been the biggest mistake in mountain biking.
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So, do you want a fringe sport where companies scrape by on thin margins, closing doors is common, and where there is little money for racing and innovation? Or do you involve families and weekend warriors, and get city & county boards onboard with building new trail systems. Who sits on land ordinance boards that can really make changes? Hipster mountain bikers or those 'working dads'?
Totally disagree. This sport is not very accessible- it's not obvious how to choose/set up a bike, where to go as a beginner, what aspect of the sport you're gonna love, how to operate the damn thing... almost every mtb'er i know loves it because they were introduced by an MTB 'ambassador' that made sure they had a great first season.
Advertising to non-MTB'ers attracts casual fitness enthusiasts, and might sell some Stumphoppers, but it doesn't help the sport since those poor folk are left stranded on fire roads with toe clips, shitty FS bikes, road rash, and novelty cushy shorts. They don't become weekend warriors, they become garage ornament owners. Weekend warriors are enthusiasts' friends.
We need to stop wrapping people in bubble wrap for the future of mountain biking , even the UK is hooked on this protective style of building right now which worries me that our crop of world class riders may be affected because there are not demanding enough trails about , or that kids are being fooled into thinking what they are riding is actually a mountain bike trail...
Take the FoD for instance. The trail centre has trails, but the entire forest is riddled with amazing trails which are unmarked. Some of them far better than the advertised routes, and all of these trails are a lot more natural, and far less bubble wrapped.
There is no all weather surface on the natural trails, if you can ride some of that clay in wet conditions you can ride anything.
You just need to know where to look. Strava has been a big help for those who want to find something new, unfortunately it doesn't allow for more of a route description and grading. Hopefully trailforks can take this to the next level.
Bubble wrapped trails are great if you are new to an area too, its nice to know if your time is limited that you can get out and escape the in-laws without having to roll everything first in fear of the unknown.
There is such a balance required, the future of the sport is children. The earlier they can start to enjoy it the better they will be. Bubble wrapped trails really help the younger generation get into it, and reassure the parents that it's ok. So they do it more, and get better, then find the harder stuff or build it.
Best thing about MTB, is if what you want to ride isnt there, you can probably build it somewhere! Find trail centres too easy or boring, get your mates together and make something rad and scary as hell.
Unfortunately when a sport does gain more momentum (like MTB in the UK - it's way in advance of the setup here in France) you will always get the people who do it for the wrong reasons. They wont stick at it, and their brand new Bronson C will quickly gather dust in their tripple garage, next to the R1 they bought cos it was cool.
MTB is what you make it. We need tracks of all levels for all people.
There is none , which is why so many of us are forced to build illegal trails to get our fix , and yes there will always be unofficial trails around but these are getting fewer and fewer as more and more riders are happy riding these cookie cutter no brainer , gravel tow path trails.
Long live the local built trail !
Have you ridden at Revs? or Rheola, or even the Black Mountains is getting good. There's also local grass roots uplifts and events all the time (British Cycling used to list them last year before I left to find some long steep trails).
Obviously they are lots less since the insurance issues - which is to me the thing killing the hardcore less accessible trails and really hurting the sport's progression. Only the bigger corporations and corporate money making ventures (like BPW) can afford to have things permanently in place and that always makes it more sterile and it's all about the shareholders.
I totally agree wit you, but a country like Korea that mtb is not a popular sport, those "working dads" play an important role in the bike industry. Hope someday in Korea those weekend warriors can play that role.
IMBA style ""flow trails"" aren't exactly challenging for the experienced biker but how do they stop you from building and riding steep and loose tracks? Same goes for the bikeparky stuff. To use a European example, in return for the beginner and ""flow"" lines at the Winterberg park you get the IXS line which is as natural as they get. Near my hometown the government built an XC route which closely resembles a highway but locals built little alternative lines through it with lots of natural and off camber stuff.
These weekend warriors might have a different attitute towards biking, seeing it as a form of exercise and a way to get out of the city rather than the sole object of their existence but how is this 'insulting, offensive and counter-productive' to the 'real' mountainbiker? You aren't forced to ride with them, share trails with them (see above) or frequent the same shops, are you? And keep in mind that it's only bike riding, I have no problem to go for a spin with a casual biker if (s)he has interesting ideas on politics or works in a similar field; there's way more to a person than just his take on mountainbiking. Being an elitist dickhead gets you nowhere.
And I am no economist but it only seems logical that a larger number of riders drives prices down and technology up. I highly doubt we'd have these 3k enduro bikes nowadays that you could win a DH WC on 10 years ago if it weren't for all those 'weekend warrior working dads'..
UCI aside one movement I'd love to be a part of is local sponsorship.
ridethree is somehow right... a race geometry is for racing and a freeride geometry should be built for jumping, dropping, manualing...
BUT there are still freeride bikes ( kona 167, scott voltage ) and you surely can use a enduro bike for doing "freeride stuff"
Your clogging up my dash. :/
The no1 mistake in mtb is that beginners want to ride them on the road.
The fact that they stay on roads and paving would be a strong indicator that they feel unsecure and unstable on their xc-geometries, wouldn't you say?
Also me, having not eaten for an entire school year in order to buy my first big bike, I started DH/FR with a simple frame, XCR fork and very good V-brakes. I invested the most in wheels and one tire. Cockpit came a year later and I had so much fun! Nowadays marketing seems to reign supreme. People still think the XCR is a bad forkbecause of all the ones left behing neglected literally rusting away.
You do not need a Zee/Saint, a Sora/Tiagra does the exact same job. I ride the current Deore cranks and the have outlasted a couple of my friends's older XT ones. The same goes for the current Deore and SLX brakes, you cannot beat them! Just think and buy because you know it's good not because they say so in the ad. And Walmart should step their game up, they are charging way too much for outdated and uncomfortable designs.
Or dont beleive the hype and just go ride and race your friends and have the time of your life and let your addiction spread to others like a junkie in a crack house with a dealer giving out free samples of the new and improved crack!
As RC said, "..... as riders, we need to perceive ourselves as being part of the whole."...
which becomes increasingly difficult the more the market is diversified and the more that increasingly marginal innovative standards are adopted piecemeal.. since this (in Ken's words)....
".... adds cost, as well as complexity, neither of which helps"..... producers or consumers alike.
Mountain biking to me is grassroots; local races, mates' rides and general cameraderie. Recent movements in the industry are anything but promoting grassroots biking.
Hey, lets smooth out the trails and make them too while we're at it!
The Mountain Bike Industry is not, never has been nor ever will be a bigger part of MTB than the riders themselves. If all of you were to bankrupt and close tomorrow, people would still go out and rag their bikes through the woods. As years went on, individuals would pop up who could service, fix and replace parts on those bikes. This would go on until individuals became companies and later, corporations. Thus, we would spawn you again. The MTB industry is only in existence because of us, the riders and builders.The first among you to "ask the riders what they'd like" instead of "telling the riders what they want" will be the last ones to drown whilst the rest of you continue to drill holes in your own boat......Asshats!!!
Twas on this, the seventh day of the seventh month 2015 that GNAR Bike Park's chances of industry sponsorship were quashed.
MTB is for fat dads, and sissies usually. I pass 90% of riders, and I'm not fast. I get smoked like a f*ckin cigar on the trail by shredders.
Prime example: blue at FoD, blue at Glentress.
Would I ride them if I wasnt there with her? Probably not.
Am I glad they're there, so she can get an idea of the fun available on a MTB early in her introduction to the sport? Hell yes.
Blue runs which are nothing but fire-road loops are doing nobody any favours.
Maybe Charlie doesn't have it right?
Exclusivity will not help your concerns, not sure if there is any example of when it has. Charlie is wrong.
@AllMountin - I know so many people that enjoy the sport for reasons other than progressing, riding more difficult trails, and pushing themselves. Many, many riders enjoy the sport for exactly what green and blue trails promote: fitness and the access to outdoors. In fact, I've heard from plenty of people that they felt pushed away from the sport because of the elitist and high-level aspects of the sport, and only realized its value when they ignored those and rode for their own reasons. The thing I like the most about mountain biking is how inclusive it can be: bikers generally get along with bikers, no matter their reasons for riding. Advocating for fewer beginner and intermediate trails (which get a large majority of the traffic) at the risk of not having as many advanced trails is counter-intuitive to the notion of being inclusive.
My point was that Sponsel likely got hooked on the sport riding the lower mountain trails of Whistler. Just the kind of trails he seems to imply being opposed to.
I wonder what Charlie's day job is. Like, how does he pay his bills for real? Because if he's actually earning any semblance of a salary spreading his perceived self importance and elitism on his blog or occasionally on Pikebike or Vital I would say that right there is one of the bigger mistakes within the bike industry.
I could be completely wrong on both these assumptions, but I doubt it...
There is zero balance in these so-called "grow the sport" efforts. They are entirely, 100%, devoted to the introduction of mountain biking to people who are likely to be scared away from mountain biking. Which is why every new trail initiative is a green or a blue, along with the sanitization of legit trails for other bullsh*t reasons like "drainage."
IMBA is a religious cult. They've developed these feel-good, clap trap slogans about trail rights and advocacy, but nobody ever questions the efficacy of creating legions of half-interested mountain bikers. There is no data on it. But here's what we do know (as in, most readers here can personally attest to this truth): shitty gravel covered flow trails with 17 switchbacks and zero gnar would have never gotten us hooked on mountain bikes. So why the actual f*ck would we promote this garbage now?
Charlie is right. People don't need bubble wrap and kid gloves to fall in love with this sport. If they do, it's the wrong sport for them. End of story.
Slamming IMBA or efforts to grow the sport aren't going to help your cause. Just look at all the people who have agreed with Charlie, like you. Not one person offered a solution, not one single idea from any of you, just pure moaning and crying.
@deadtime: Everyone has offered a solution. Build the green and blue BUT LEAVE THE EXISTING BLACK ALONE! It really IS that simple and it's really not moaning or crying.
Slamming IMBA actually does help my cause. IMBA is too often treated as divinity and is rarely if ever questioned by riders who blindly support them, so it usually sparks a conversation where someone will say something like "now that you mention it, they've backed down from most land disputes in my area and every trail they've built recently kinda looks like a sidewalk made out of dirt."
It sounds like Bell made something good happen in Michigan. There are rare instances of goodness on the west coast as well, but not enough, and the dumbing-down trend is strong right now. Questioning the philosophy of growing the sport at the cost of actual mountain bike trails isn't "moaning and crying" just because you don't understand the argument or it simply doesn't apply to you.
We've all spent a lot of money getting our bikes sorted and in the next couple of years 26" will be niche!
I've mostly ridden in Utah, Colorado, Arizona, and Wyoming, and biking hit these places a lot earlier than most and we still had very dismal options for trails. Now the hard part is deciding what type of riding we want to do and where we want to do it.
I am happy to see plenty of beginners getting into the sport even if it means a lot of really groomed up trails. Now people are forming trail building associations in areas that you would never have thought possible. I live in Wyoming now and it is really important that as many people as possible get into the sport since our populations are so small and rural and luckily, it is already happening.
Shouldn't the same be said for removing natural things, features or even types of trails, in order to 'cater' to someone who's earlier on in their (assumed) progression as a mountain biker? Especially when it's considerably easier to avoid an obstacle or trail rather than ride one that isn't there any more.
I agree that having all kinds of trails is what makes mountain biking as fun as it is. Imagine F1 at one course or DH at one track. And therein lies the problem, where every 'sanctioned/official/funded/etc' trail I've seen thus far are made similarly, to a pretty tame (regressive?) standard.
Which brings us back to my first point: Nowadays the good trails on public land are generally built outside of a rule book. We have a great set of decent sized jumps and drops through our 7km loop that routes through crown land. There's no way a trail built officially would include such features or even be the same trail. It's cool that you feel challenged by whats around you, but many peoples experiences aren't the same.
Why? Because they're all only concerned about their own little niche.
CLEARLY, the BIGGEST screw-up(and there HAVE been many), is the bike industry's FAILURE to agree on ANY standard.
Hell, ISCG tabs.. There's barely any difference between ISCG and ISCG '05, yet there they are.
Why is it that you can go buy an MX bike and you don't have to worry about various-sized brake adapters, 31.8 or 35mm stems/bars, or [now] F-I-V-E different wheel sizes(26, 27.5, 29, 27.5PLUS, 29PLUS)? And that's just to name a few...
Because the bike industry as a whole is SO concerned with getting you to buy new EVERY YEAR, they've literally gone NUTZ trying to come up with the latest craze, with the new *PLUS* wheel sizes being the latest fad.
With all the rags being more industry mouth-pieces than un-biased, H-O-N-E-S-T, independent new-sources, the flag is solidly bent in the wrong fricken direction, and isn't likely to change any time soon.
Thus, we'll keep getting 'buy this NOW' shoved down our collective throats for the foreseeable future.
Although I've ridden MTBs since the mid-late '80s(first 'REAL' bike was a Miyata), I remember going from a Trek 990, to a Liquid 20, to a Fisher Pro Caliber, not even knowing what 'style' bike I was on, and how much travel I had.
Because I bought my bikes from ONE store over the decades, all I needed to do was walk into said store and tell 'em I needed a new bike. Bingo Boffo and 20 mins later, and I'd be out the door on a new bike I LOVED.
Now days, if you walk into a store, heck just a YEAR after your last bike purchase, and if you need 'help', it's gonna take the sales schmeizer an hour JUST to go over the newest wheel size(s), never mind why you NOW want a longer top tube and a shorter stem, whether you prefer a 1x11, or 1x10 with the 42/16t combo, or if you just wanna say SCREW IT ALL, and grab the 80lbs DH bike with an electric motor
Grassroots groups connected by pb/other industry groups can make a utopia.
I am personally fine with growing the sport. More rides means more public support. Look at what it has done for Utah. More trails every year. And New York is finally starting to add trails too. You want more legal trails, gotta have more legal riders.
There have been some great introductions. The clutch mech, narrow wide.... all small changes to existing compatible tech and not the push to get riders to spend their hard earned on new wheel sizes, new frames, complete new drive trains or even a bike with a motor.
We should keep MTB simple, making to many options with lots of misinformation just confuses the masses.
Road did it right when they started the revolution and set the rules in stone. CX do it right. Therules are set in stone. It's just MTB where we are not big enough for the governing bodies to care too much where we keep introducing unnecessary change for the sake of sales figures.
Pah ! it's got wheels that spin , brakes that stop when I go pully pully on the levers and 50mm of fork travel . I'll ride it down what ever the f*ck I want and it wont break like your Cannondale and there aren't a million of them like your specialized hardrockepicstumpwank . It doesn't have trick parts (well ok it does have parallel linear pull brakes) .
I've had new riders in the sport point and laugh at my 120mm stem and 505mm bars . I've heard them say "huh huh he hasn't got a real bike."
So to me the biggest mistake are buzz words and divergence of riding styles . To stay "Cool" you aren't allowed to wear Lycra and ride skinny bars , hard tails are not "suitable" for trail riding . Bollocks to that !
That and endless different standards, that needs to stop!
Profiteering.
create standard stick to them stop looking for the next big thing that usually turns out to be nothing more than a minor step forward.. give the little guys in the local shops who provide a very REAL and valuable service to beginners and experts alike a chance !
P.S. I only live ~4 hours from whistler bike park
www.oregonlive.com/clackamascounty/index.ssf/2013/11/sandy_ridge_mountain_biking_tr.html
I wish more bike companies would focus on supporting local bike shops to develop local mt. bike economies. This can be as simple as helping with the organization of trail events through swag & product discounts for volunteers or provide trail experts and economists that can help support local shops & trail groups work with local government for land use approvals.
I heard a sad story the other day - I went back to my college town of Bozeman, MT expecting to hear about an amazing Mt. Bike scene only to hear from a shop owner that it SUCKS. I was told there are multiple groups fighting over what to do with no central organization - hence the local shop owner told me his mid-high end Mt. bike sales have been flat for years. Wouldn't it be great if a company sent in some trail experts to help organize these towns to get an organized trail group up and running - after 5 years they just might have 30+ miles of local trail to attract new mt. bike buyers.
I also did feel a bit like Bryson felt a little put out that Murica wasn't the cradle of MTB still. As it diversified and some of the worlds greatest racers across all disciplines XC, DH, Jump came from the EU, USA and beyond it would only make sense that and to enable fairness that the World series of racing had it's World cups held in the locality that wins the most points. USA or EU both have amazing choices for riding. Side note; the World series in baseball only seems to have USA teams in it? To me that kind of denotes the narrow mindedness of sports organization. Bikes have a global presence and should be repped equally globally.
What is the advantage of 650b? Nothing all I have noticed are the wheels are a little bigger and the bike is not as snappy and fun to ride. Why did 26 get thrown under the bus for this 650b crap? Dumbest thing so far.
Then it's finished as a sport
The mountain bike industry is just that, an INDUSTRY. It must make money in order to continue to exist. If the argument that we don't care how fast we go doesn't concern the 95% of us that don't race (myself included) is valid then who cares if the industry brings out new, expensive standards? Just don't buy it and carry on having fun. The whole "If it ain't broke don't fix it" argument is incredibly naive, it would never happen and if it did it would see the end of the mountainbike industry
I bought my canyon ex about 6 months before 650b pretty much became the norm on every single new bike coming out. Ask me if I care. Next time I buy a bike it'll probably be a 650b, as it is probably superior to 26 inch (another argument for another day) but I'm not going to change it out until I need to. I absolutely love my bike! No one forces you to buy the new standards of components that comes out but it drives the development of our sport so I say bring it on.
I have called in sick to work, missed family events, bribed and cheated my way onto trails since my first lap on B-Line. Its been a beautiful road of dark nylons, picking dirt out of my nails and trying to find a perfume that goes with chamois and a haircut that will handle a helmet. I don't care what I ride, where or with whom. I just want to be on a trail with my bike.
Peace
My biggest mistake is somewhere between wanting to give my left nut for a 2050 bike and the one I'm on now.
When I read internet complaints about "dumbing down trails," I can't relate at all. That hasn't been my experience. Where does a cycling nirvana like that exist—where trails are "too easy?" Where I live and ride, it takes much more effort to build a fast, flowing trail than to build a rock garden. Where I live and ride, I would absolutely welcome a greater variety of trails. Around here, what counts as "variety" is trail names with different synonyms for "rock."
Either just have pro races, or try to spread out the attention/prizes just a bit, a little more equity in prize distribution, break up the cliques, and respect for the "lower class" riders who ultimately pay the bulk of the bills of the shops and manufacturers promoting the event by buying bikes and equipment.
Resulting in closures, huge discussions/agreements/MEETINGS, and big $ for flow trails=diff bikes.
harden the FK up and ride, or pick a different sport.
*I didn't read the article, so I don't know what I'm talking about. But brah that shits hella long!*
I imagined what would it be to have contenders race in different parts of the world? Europe, US, North America, Middle East? well maybe not the Middle East but around the world? I imagined racers bombing down Mexican mountains in Durango or dropping down drift popular mountains in Japan. I guess it would be a logistics nightmare and even harder for new racers to join in due to the overwhelming cost of yearly around the world travel, but it would be damn cool too see!
Grab Garry by the front of his shirt and shake him around screaming with spittle flying out my mouth.
Hey Garry just because you dress like a clown why did you and Trakalized decide to turn XC into a 29" wagon wheel riding circus! That then turned Enduro into a 650b riding circus that now has turned the whole bike industry into a big ff%cking circus.?
Seperating the bike tribes worse than ever 29ers vs 650 and the death stroke of 26!
You mo-fo have turned this into a sectarian war! Shia, Suni and Kurds look on at us in PITY!
It has undermined the average Joes confidence in buying any new bike, in fear of things that were once never thought of .
Can I find a new fork for this tire size in the future? Willl my new bike have any resale value? Wil I buy this only to have it be the OLD standard next week?
Shaking that old clown violently I would of demanded some accounting for this monstrous screw up, he should feel some shame.
Looks like a session meme? Oh please spare me I have seen cooler logos on a packet of laundry detergent.
I would not wipe my dogs but with one.
Is everyone doping in that company? I this what it's like at a meeting in planet Trekalized.
JOHN: Pass that syringe, hey looking at this power point it seems quartery sales are down. Now let's create some new thing new to boost the bottom line any idea everyone? hands go up.
JOHN : yes Jimmy -
JIMMY: How about 28 inch wheels.?
JOHN: No it's too soon we just did 27.5 the consumers won't go for it they will tear us down.
Another hand goes up,
JOHN: Yes Tommy.
TOMMY: What if we call it 27 plus?
JOHN: Great Idea!
And to beginners the cycling world is intimidating and the gear required to get started (bike, accessories, rack, etc) can be overwhelming. Help the customer get off the ground instead of clipping their wings from the beginning.
wow.
finally someone shares my thoughts...
also glad the "standard" issue got mentioned. just yesterday I tried to install my new DB inline, until I realised the eyelet is wider than the competition so neither fox nor rock shox bushings worked... just why?
Sponsel really nailed some good shit.
All I know is the answer to all our problems, MORE MACDUFF!!!
That was sold to us as important at one time :-)
Spot on.
The "f*cking" prices are a reflection of the f*cking R&d in addition to the "f*cking" promotion, the "f*cking" materials and the "f*cking" education for proper maintenance and adjustment Shimano brings to a product so that PPL may accuse something like a STX derailleur of "Sucking" even though it is a pretty well thought out and significant improvement over previous generations.
I suppose the next thing to answer is "how does a small bike shop amass an inventory of parts and accessories to battle the internet on a tight budget?" The simple answer to this is start at the basics. Carry the things a consumer expects you to carry. Grips, chains, derailleurs, stems, handlebars, pedals, bike racks, tires, seat posts etc. Make your bike shop easy to shop, and be friendly with your customers. As your business grows, so should your inventory. Eventually you will be able to stock forks, shocks, frames, dropper posts, and more exotic pieces. Before you know it, your product mix is broad and you have the sales/revenue to justify it.
People do not want to deal with people- it's one of the main reasons the internet is such a success as it means we can buy things and get them delivered to our door without even having to talk to anyone. Look at 'Just Eat.com' for example- they operate by allowing people to submit an order to their local takeaway without having to call them and speak to them. They're huge now.
What makes things worse are companies like Canyon and YT who deal direct to the consumer- yeah it's great for the end user as they get their ride for less- but they're cutting out a link in the retail chain which is hitting shops too. To be honest I'm glad I got out of the industry when I did. Now I can just ride my bike and enjoy it and I earn double the money in half the time at work.
But because I know and trust the guy in the shop that does the work and doesn't say stupid 5hit, I'll support him. If he gives me good advice (when I ask) and stands behind his work, he's worth his weight in gold. This is the shop that doesn't care where I got the parts and doesn't care that my frame was bought on Pinkbike and the wheels from a different shop in a different state.
I do go to that shop and buy things. But not for everything!
The real truth is that the biking industry needs to figure out how to make bikes for less than motorcycles. A lot more new 5h1t will move off the racks when that happens.
I doubt anybody is looking at this still, but I want to stress the original post of "Good" bike shops out there, I did not mean the Deeekhead that starts a shop and thinks everybody owes him because he is local.
I have been a tech for 20 years and the fact that there is no certification process like the auto industry breeds some real hacks, but...The real complaint I have is with the fact that most of the guys I was in shops with in the "old days" were in the shop making min. wage were there for the discount. This drew in proper bikers, not salespeople laid off from a department store, not a shit mechanic that had "Clients".
They rode, broke stuff, and only cared about keeping there act together so that they could eventually turn PRO and make a living out of racing. I made a living out of being a good mechanic and have traveled the world on USAcycling's dime because of it, not my plan, but still was a shop guy's mission. So trust me, guys come to my shop asking the difference between BB30, BB386, Italian 70mm, Shimano pressfit 86, and Trek's BB90...and they buy their stuff online in the end. (What does this 1.370 mean on my bike?)
Nowadays E.P. pricing is meaningless, and because overseas internet stores will have a product listed cheaper than what an AMERCAN retailer can purchase it for means we suffer. It is basic outsourcing, the consumer is not to blame, the shop is not to blame. It just sucks, that is all I was saying.