Fill In The Holes - Sam Dueck

 more like bad ass mother fucker

 People do complain about the cheerleaders and monster girls. I don't take my family to sporting events where they are objectifying women. I have written letters to the CFL and CMRC explaining my choice. I know many families who did so as well. They make a lot of money off it, and are not likely to stop, but it is something I can do. I don't buy riding gear from companies that use sex to sell their products. I have a close friend who teaches pole dancing for fitness, and expression. There is no exploitation going on there so it is fine. Maybe a seed will be planted here, and you can start maturing. When you listen to the trauma experienced by women who were exploited by men, you change your tune quickly.

 Sex offender? nah I just thought your comments were stupid.

 As tasteless as most comments are in the "articles" on female riders, I think this is the wrong place to vent about sexism (or in most cases, immature boys/man-children fantasizing about what they'll never get).

 @ Willie1

Because most riders here on pinkbike are heterosexual men who happen to appreciate attractive women on bikes.

If you aren't into women, I do understand, and I have absolutely no judgement whatsoever.

 wow this conversation got real intense real quick.

 Dude willie, I am right there with you in respecting women but I think you are a bit off base in saying pinkbike promotes that attitude... Maybe since most of the pinkbike posters are young teenage and 20 something guys you get more comments to that nature, but that doesn't mean pinkbike promotes it. That means the demographic of the community represents those views, as hard as pinkbike trys to change that it won't happen. So now your quest should be getting all boys between the ages of 10 to 30 to stop being boys. Good LUCK with that.

Still I don't understand how any of your posts relate to this photo ... that is why I neg'd you.

Oh wait I read through some of your posts in other discussions. Looks like were in for a treat. Step one, disregard my grammar, step 2 disregard my lack of education, step 3 re-assert your education and expertise in all matters, Step 4 : tell you patients that you need a therapist just as much as they do! Holy cow you got some issues bud.

 time and a place man... yes, your points are valid, but a little off topic with article...

 Pinkbike takes the inappropriate pictures and asks questions such as "pink or black?" That is promoting the attitudes.

This is off topic with the article, but why the difference in tone of the mens articles from the women? Thje boys here think its gross to think of male riders in water shots or asking about colors. It should be with the women as well. Its sad women have to sexualize their activities to get some exposure in their sport. Pinkbike needs to degrade the men to equalize things, or stop degrading the women.

You didn't really read my previous posts did you pbrider? The posts on education were having some fun on an arrogant kid who could not admit he misunderstood gravity and pulled out every excuse in the book to justify his initial statements. Would you hire an architect who didn't understand gravity to design something for you? How did he get through school LOL!!! ? If he had the education he claimed to he would have written professional articles and could form complete sentences without trying.

I have done many reports for judges on kids who were convicted on sexual assault charges as "all boys are like that." Keep promoting inappropriateness as its just the way it is. That doesn't cut it for me.

 for fuck sake, just be quiet, if you noticed no one wants to hear your opinion!

 If female athletes really wanted to, they could say no to the pictures in the water, or wearing bikinis Truth is, they know the attention they are getting is also benefiting them. As well, a lot of times female athletes can turn to modelling when or if their sports career doesn't work out Not a lot of men have that option.

 I don't care if no one wants to hear it. Go ahead and degrade women. I will challenge it whenever I see it. Keep justifying your deviant thinking that women deserve it or want it. The more you try to normalize the belief that degrading women is OK, the more you show how sick you really are. Keep proving the point.

 The 6 or 7 deviants are sticking together here. Too funny.

 Dude, you are calling the majority of pinkbike users and Ian Hylands sex offender.

Why are you still here?

 the word therapist split up spells 'the-rapist'

 @Willie1. you just said "I will challenge it whenever I see it." fair enough... BUT you didn't see it here, all there is here is a shot of a dirt jump and a short questionnaire with the rider from the photo... the writer said nothing degrading to women and the rider interviewed said nothing degrading to women...
YOU ARE THE ONE THAT BROUGHT THIS ALL UP OUT OF NOWHERE...
so don't fool yourself into thinking you're fighting the good fight against what you're commenting on...

world hunger is problem in the world too, but complaining about it has no relevance here...

 @ biketrials, there are -5 props for my comments, but -27 for commenting on the use of a mac. The perverts are sticking together, but are a small number of people.
6 or 7 perverts is hardly a majority LOL!!!!

 Majority of comments that were directed towards pinkbike posts featuring female athletes that you mentioned in your first post.

 Right first of all, shut up, but Ian hylands isn't objectifying women, look on holly Feniaks account and read the comments she made, it was her choice to do the water pictures, yes her choice, she wanted to do them, she also repeats how she has a boyfriend and doesn't want more male attention, Ian put the picture up as it fitted the line "holly is on fire" and also Ian did an article the week before about women being objectified. You're so ignorant about the whole topic so look into things before you speak now shut up cause you're not doing yourself any favours.

 Such intelligent responses from the pervs. Your best arguments are "shut up." At least those sort of made sense. The 6 or so of you with deviant thinking, look up the terms, consent, coercion, and compliance. The girls comply with the objectification, or they get passed over for articles. Its the only way they get the press. There is 50 years of research on this.

Is Ian Hylands your hero or something? I acknowledge he is expected to and paid to objectify women, but he still does it. The problem is very few people will risk their jobs or careers to do the right thing.

Thank you for the entertainment. Its like watching trailer park boys where the losers look up to other losers, and have all sorts of ridiculous explanations and excuses why they are better than "normal" people. I find it disturbing, and frightening, but the stupid arguments and the ease of unraveling the faulty logic is too tempting to ignore.

Joemtbftw, go get out your dictionary and start looking up terms. If you put in the effort and explain why it is ok for girls to be treated differently than boys, I would happily help you see the injustice here. Girls don't choose being porn stars, prostitutes, or strippers for career advancement. I don't know of a single girls who moved up from a sexualized promotion to a respected position. They do it because they get paid and don't have other marketable skills. What relevance does what a woman wears in her time off the bike have to do with her riding skills?

@ buttonpusher: I did see it here. Boys are not objectified. This article showed different treatment of the boys than girls VERY clearly.

 What would happen to Holly Feniak's future of promotion on Pinkbike and other sites if she said she felt uncomfortable with the pics but the pressure was there to get the exposure from the article? Why was she even asked to do these picturers? I bet Sam wasn't. She is doing the same thing as when Aaron Gwin talks about how great the Saint groupset is in each interview. She is giving good promotion of the hand that feeds her. This is compliance.

When I was a kid I was taught behaviour speaks louder than words. What does Ian's behaviour say?

 Stop trying to be all psychological on us. Great no one cares, i do Psychology A level, you dont hear me making a big fuss that i know psychological terms and theories. Now read what Holly has to say.

And heres holly's comment on the article:

Ian, it wasn't a mistake. It is an amazing photo, did anyone even recognize how beautiful that photo Ian took is? Amazing quality, professional photo. As for everyone else, I am proud of everything in this article, I stand by it all, no regrets. Lol, I gotta admit, the G-Spot video is pretty funny, and I blush a little every time I watch it. I can see where the people who disagree are all coming from, but if I could speak with each of you face to face, I'm sure I could assure you that I am confident with what I am doing, and am not going in the wrong direction. I may be only (17 in a month..) 16, but I come from a place where things start very early, and believe me when I say, I am fully aware of the power of being an attractive female in a male dominant sport has. I say that with a lot of experience (please don't take that the wrong way!), and I take serious pride in being a role model, staying classy always, and staying true to myself. This is only the beginning to a very positive, and successful career for me. Outside of racing, I am a very artistic person, with an open mind and a love for photography. My intentions with the first photo have art, style and sass written all over it! Thanks everyone for the positive comments, I appreciate all the support. And for the others, I also appreciate your concerns, but you can relax because I already have a wonderful team of people looking out for me, who I trust..and everything is under control!!"

 @willie1 aka you think to much.... try doing some productive for a change rather than thinking about it!...

 You don't care, but that doesn't mean anything other than to you. At 17, your knowledge of psychology even if you took a course is limited. Your brain isn't even fully developed until you are 25. If you haven't noticed, you are the only one still supporting being a perv. I worked with so many kids just like you, and your arguments are the same as all of them. You don't get it, and can't.

At 16/17, Holly doesn't have the life experience to really understand the impact of this picture. What does her father say? What would her brother say? We don't allow for children to consent to sex, drinking, or voting, buy its OK for Ian to take sexy pictures of her as career promotion? I think Ian has some screws loose to do this, even if his boss wants him to. What if she was 14? is it still OK? If she's not living on her own, supporting herself, she isn't psychologically ready to consent to these pictures. This is how we decide if a kid gets mature minor status. Can they look after the adult responsibilities and understand the consequences of their decisions. Holly clearly cannot by her defending this inappropriate action. She is right, the photo is gorgeous, but to sexualize a female rider is inappropriate, but to add the youth aspect makes it extremely uncomfortable for those who understand this subject. Even Ian suggested it was a mistake at least showing some respect even if after the fact. Abuse victims often say it was their fault.

 I dont like willies. especially this one ^

 And you just called the photo gorgeous and youre 41, now youre the perv!!

 The thing is though im not being a perv because im not making comments about Holly, I'm making comments about her consenting to taking the pictures. Well if shes old enough to get married i think she should be allowed to have her picture taken without daddys consent.
You dont know me, dont say you work with kids like me. firstly, im not a kid and secondly, Id never see a therapist with the name willie. Already bad connotations.
no it wouldnt be okay at 14, but i know people that have lived on their own since 16. and she said, she didnt want to sexualize it, that was unitentional, she wanted a photo of beauty and sass. You dont know Holly, you dont know hollys mental stability, stop acting like the dogs bollocks. All therapists are the same, you dont listen and youre so stubborn because you think youre always right, you dont know what holly is capable of in her life.
Oh and i get everything youre saying, im not stupid, youre just not listening and think youre right, everything has to have a meaning with you doesnt it?

 Lighting, composition, framing= gorgeous. Content=perv. You really are immature, and have limited reading comprehension.

I do know you. You say the same things as all the other kids who defend inappropriate behaviour. You use the same arguments, make the same claims, you use the same insults. Its just like doing an assessment on a 17 year old who claims "she wanted it. She didn't say no" after being charged with date rape. Ian didn't post here defending his choices. In fact Ian suggested it was a mistake. Why is this so important to you that teen girls can be sexualized? This is really puzzling to me. You are providing me with great entertainment. I keep checking back to see if you do the next predicted behaviour in defending your position. Its like all the other pervs. You make statements that are socially inappropriate, and when challenged, rather than admitting you have a problem, or shouldn't have said them, which is what adults do, you normalize, then compare yourself to others with the same beliefs, then you project its the person who is challenging you is the sick one. After that you blame the profession, and finally you storm out of the room. Its predictable.

Interestingly, you seem to have experienced more than one therapist who challenged you on your inappropriate behaviour and beliefs, resulting in you needing to degrade therapists. You commented all therapists are the same, which suggests you have met at least 2 or 3 who challenged you. Your first comment on therapists was to call the them "the rapists," a very common joke amongst sex offenders. This is getting really interesting now. I look forward to your next insults, or being dismissed, which is the predicted response.

 Im not immature, I just felt the responsibility to throw in that comment since no one has.
And You don't know me in the slightest, You've never met me, the closest you have to any identification of me is mucking about on the internet. I'm not making the argument teenage girls can be sexualized, i havent said anything about it being good, ive said its been Hollys choice, neither of us know whos choice it was, you can keep believing that Holly just conformed to Ian because she wanted an article, but it doesnt make it an accurate assumption does it? For all you know she may have suggested it. I havent compared myself to anyone either, and I've never been to a therapist actually, but there have been councilers and therapists at my old schools etc so i have known some, there are also psychologists in my family so i am quite aware of their behaviours. Like i said, you dont know me so dont make assumptions. And one belief to you may be different to another, dont try and twist it to say i believe all the opposite to you, i dont at all, and not once have i said that sexulizing women or teenagers in Downhill is acceptable, youve decided i said that, when ive actually said that Hollys admited to wanting the picture taken. and yet youre telling me to read...

 Try going out more, women will wear short skirts and tight clothing, on their own choice. Let women take care of themselves and let women make their own decisions. Because otherwise we would be living in Iraq where women are forced to hide every inch of their skins.

 Thankyou! i tried telling old willie here but he refused to listen and decided to twist it!

 You two are sick. You don't get it.

 The pervs keep justfying their position, just like I predicted. This is too entertaining.

 I think to be a perv I would have had to have done something pervy, please tell me what I've said that's pervy? I've stated what Holly said and you've called me a perv and you're 41 and called the photo gorgeous so tell me what I've done to be a perv when you've made more pervy comments than anyone in this post. No one else has said anything about Holly's looks, only you.

 And men do get sexualised actually, in rugby league in the UK men get paid bonuses for wearing shorter shorts to attract female audiences, that's sexualising and you get male strippers, pornstars and prostitutes just like you get female ones, I'm not saying its okay and I've never said that, women may be sexualised in riding but that depends on who, American football games have cheerleaders, never heard any heterosexual man complaining at that, the monster girls at races...never heard anyone complain about that?

 Your other responses have shown off your immaturity, and the grasping at straws to support a position that mainstream society does not hold. The fact that you took on this argument more strongly than anyone else suggests you found my comments offensive. Behaviour speaks louder than words. The motivations under the statements are more important than the statements. You claimed to have knowledge of how therapists work, yet backtracked when challenged. You could not know unless you have worked extensively with them, or you were making an immature irrelevant insult to support yourself. You backed yourself into a corner there.

Take care, enjoy life, and remember this conversation in 8 years when your brain matures. (not an insult, males brains aren't fully matured until 25.) As I said, don't just take this from me. Have your parents read this, and ask them what they think of the different treatment of boys and girls

 Show this to your mom and see what she says about your attitudes here. I suspect she would be embarrassed.

You say the same things as the sex offenders when defending objectification of women. You went on a huge number of tangents, but the original post was asking why Sam wasn't asked to pose in sexy ways like the girls are. You listed many reasons why it is OK, such as the girls benefit from it (it shows off their riding doesn't it, making them more credible.) You made the "the rapist" comment, which is common with sex offenders. You mentioned Holly wanted it, and its OK at 16 to pose in sexy ways when an adult in a power position asked her to. This isn't informed consent, and is abusive. You feel this is normal which is what sex offenders think. You agreed with Biketrials who said women ask to be sexualized because of how they dress. These are all the attitudes of those who have been charged with sex offenses. You made references to me being a "willie" which is another sexualized comment. You couldn't stick to the facts, and had to throw out sexualized insults. You assumed my comment on the picture was about her appearance, not the photography skills, another sexualized theme. Yes, you do have pervy behaviour, in at least as your attitudes suggest.

 Read again:

I wrote "Let women take care of themselves and let women make their own decisions."
You might not agree with their decisions on how they dress or how they take photos, but it's ultimately women's freedom to choose what they want to do with themselves.

You do have a valid point, so talk to pinkbike moderators

But posting these comments on a Sam Dueck's Fill in the Holes article and calling people that you don't know "rapists" and "sex offenders" will not do much to your cause.

 I see that you have good intention, looking out for women. But you have to respect their decisions. In Holly's case, she agreed to the photo shoot and she even wrote extra explanation afterwards. And so she is 16, she can look back on it few years from now, and decide if she wants to do something like this again in future. Neither of us are in the position to question her decision. If you are a therapist, then you know, over protection is just another form of abuse.

 Biketrials, this isn't an debate on women's freedom. Holly is still legally a child, which makes this that inappropriate. Secondly, what does a woman going out in a miniskirt have to do with DH riding? About as much as Sam posing in a speedo. This is why the comments were about Sam not being asked to be photographed in water. This is the perfect place to post, as it is a "fill in the holes" segment, where men and women are treated differently.

I did not call anyone a sex offender, but commented the statements are the same as the hundreds of sex offenders I have assessed and treated. Their behaviours become justified in cognitive distortions revolving around how they perceive women advertising their sexual desires through their dress, or photos, etc. I did call people pervs though, which is appropriate based on the comments. Look up perverted in Webster's and you'll see it fits really well.

So you are still saying you think it is OK for Holly to be asked to pose that way, at her age, to show off her DH riding skills when even the photographer stated it was a mistake?

 I said and I am still saying that you gotta let women do what they want, by giving an example of how they dress.

Why can't you let Holly take photos even if she agreed to her yourself?
I really don't care what she does or how she takes photos, it's not our job to tell her what to do.

 I see that you didn't agree with her decision, and I understand that.

But it is her decision to make. Get it?

 This has nothing to do with anyone's ability to make a decision, its about exploiting underage women, and sexualizing women in general. You missed the point completely.

Why does she have the choice to be exploited, but the men aren't put in the same boat? ITS NOT ABOUT CHOICE!!!!! It goes back to the ideas of informed consent and compliance. Please look those up, along with the legalities of minors consent before you go on about choice. I have listened to many sex offenders tell me their victim was consensual, and they did consent, but there is a responsibility to NOT give people at certain ages the choice. It is called a statutory offense. Its legal once you can consent, but not before you reach the age of consent. The laws are arbitrary, not based on any developmental understanding.

BTW, I DO CARE that minors are posed in sexualized ways by adults when it has nothing to do with her bike riding skills, so quit promoting exploitation. No one other than a few pervs support your view.

Your logic is this: "I have the chance to get some exposure and possibly new sponsors through Pinkbike. Wow, what a great opportunity. Hey, Maybe they will let me pose in sexy ways to show off what a great rider I am. I can't believe how lucky I am to have the freedom to detract from my riding this way." I'm sure this is what she hoped for when she decided to pursue a carreer in cycling.

 Yup and this is a photo shoot, not sex.

The fact that you connected some wet photos, and riding in half lid helmet to having sex means you are quite a perv yourself.

And I also agree that sexualizing women is definitely present in our media, but so are sexualizing men.

Couple examples:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=owGykVbfgUE
www.google.ca/search?q=david+beckham+calvin+klein&hl=en&rlz=1C1ASUT_enCA466CA466&prmd=imvnso&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=3qr0T5yrJ-ak2gXzg63KBg&ved=0CD4Q_AUoAQ&biw=1366&bih=667

Again, keep in mind that she can say 'No' anytime, but now you are just putting words into her mouth.

This will be the last post I make.

 Thank the heavens it is your last post. Anyone who denies the suggestive theme of the pic is grasping at straws. You are very rigid in defending your inappropriate views of women and how they are exploited. The fact that men are exploited in other venues has no bearing on whether it is appropriate here. Its inappropriate in all venues. Its like little Johhny saying "he hit me first!" You make rediculous jumps in logic. FWIW, I won't even look at this post again. We'll resume in the next "fill in the holes" when the inequality presents itself again.

 Thought I would add 346 people felt the photo was inappropriate, based on the props in the article. That is the highest number of props I have seen on pinkbike for any comment.