2014 Vivid R2C Shock - First Look

Mar 8, 2013
by Mike Levy  
 
You must login to Pinkbike.
Don't have an account? Sign up

Join Pinkbike  Login
FIRST LOOK
Vivid
R2C
WORDS Mike Levy
PHOTOS Victor Lucas







What's new with the 2014 Vivid

• Counter Measure negative spring
• Rapid Recovery damping
• Re-worked piggyback bridge and adjustment dials
• Smoother oil flow paths for less turbulence


Vivid R2C and Vivid Air R2C Details

• New for 2014
• Adjustments: separate beginning and ending stroke rebound, compression
• Weight: Vivid - 402 grams (depending on size), Vivid Air - 520 grams (depending on size)
• MSRP: $430 USD (coil), $674 USD (air)


Fighting Friction

It doesn't matter if you are talking about mountain bikes or motorized vehicles, reducing system friction within suspension is always high on any engineer's wish list. One only has to look to the worlds of motocross and supercross, where great lengths are taken to improve suspension action via insanely expensive stanchion and damper shaft treatments, high-quality seals, and internal trickery. What is all the fuss about? Improving suspension sensitivity can go a long ways towards improving traction, especially when you're talking about the initial breakaway force at the top of the stroke. This advantage, however slight when conditions are ideal and traction feels endless, can play a bigger role when mud, wet roots, and even dust come into play as the suspension works to keep your tires from slipping. The battle for slick suspension becomes even harder when the coil spring is swapped out for air due to both the increased seal contact area and the number of total seals required. RockShox told us that it takes between 40 and 60in/lb to overcome the initial breakaway friction found within a typical shock sans spring, a number that comes not only from the shock's seals, but largely from the 250psi behind the internal floating piston (IFP) employed within the piggybacks of all long-stroke mountain bike shocks. Simply removing the IFP isn't an option: it compensates for shaft oil displacement as the shock is compressed, and allows for more oil, and therefore better heat management, especially in long-travel applications. While a compressible rubber bladder can accomplish the same goal, nothing beats the proven IFP layout when it comes to reliability. The trick, then, is to figure out a way to counteract seal friction and IFP pressure in order to improve suppleness.


Counter Measure

RockShox's answer is a system that they have dubbed 'Counter Measure', which is essentially a negative spring that pushes the shock into its stroke while balancing the seal friction and IFP pressure, with RockShox saying that it brings the required activation force down to essentially zero. The steel Counter Measure spring sits directly under the seal head, just above the piston when the shock is at full extension, and affects only the first 10mm of stroke. It wasn't simply a matter of shoehorning the Counter Measure spring into the new Vivid R2C and Air R2C shocks, though, with there being very limited real estate up for grabs within the shock body. The solution was a completely new countersunk seal head assembly that allows the Counter Measure spring to sit partly up inside the seal head, thereby allowing it to be squeezed in without limiting shock stroke.

RockShox
  The Counter Measure spring (circled in red ) proved to be especially effective within the Vivid Air R2C, going a long way towards eliminating the added friction associated with an air spring.

RockShox
  Our Vivid R2C and the Vivid Air R2C shocks were fitted to Nuke Proof's new Pulse, a bike that you'll be able to read all about in an upcoming review.

On trail with the Vivid

We spent two days sampling both the new coil-sprung Vivid RC2 and the lighter weight Vivid Air R2C on two different tracks in San Remo, Italy, an area well known for terrain that suits downhill bikes well. In fact, San Remo's trails are a favourite training ground for many top-flight downhillers who are looking to do some pre-season testing to sort out their bikes. The plan involved shuttle runs on two tracks, one smoother and tighter, and the other wide open, rough, and full of multiple line choices, with day one being spent on the coil and day two on the Vivid Air. My rig for the two days was Nuke Proof's brand new Pulse DH bike, a machine that we've been very curious about since Sam Hill made headlines with his move to the U.K. brand earlier in the year - we have a Pulse test bike on the way for testing, but this would serve as our initial appraisal. RockShox product manager Jeremiah Boobar was on hand to explain the updates and help us with tuning, and World Champion Danny Hart took turns showing us lines that we would have never seen otherwise.

RockShox
  While not scary-steep, San Remo's tracks are incredibly rocky. In other words, the ideal place to have a go on some new suspension.

Vivid Air R2C

The upsides of an air-sprung shock include less weight and the ability to precisely fine-tune the spring rate, but we'd be seeing them on every racer's bike if they were without fault. There are two major points of contention: one, the sometimes inconsistent spring rate and damping due to heat buildup (RockShox's Hot Rod, an adjuster needle with a thermoplastic resin core that self adjusts in size as temps go up, goes a long way towards remedying this), and two, the increased friction from the high-pressure seals required by an air shock. Yes, a modern air-sprung shock, especially a long-stroke model, is much more active than they were from years past, but most can't compare to the extremely supple nature of a coil-sprung model. You don't need to be a suspension engineer to see that an air shock is the ideal application for RockShox's Counter Measure system, and that much felt to be true during our day's testing with the new Counter Measure-equipped Vivid Air R2C.

In practice there is a marked increase in sensitivity at the top of the stroke between the 2014 Vivid Air and previous versions, with a supple feel that rivals a coil shock in ease of entry into its travel. The difference is night-and-day when pushing down on the bike's saddle, offering an impressively smooth feel to the back of the bike. That translates to a very fluid-feeling rear end when on the trail, with a noticeable improvement in sensitivity. While the Counter Measure system may only affect the first 10mm of the shock's stroke, the extremely light action certainly changes the shock's personality for the better as a whole - it felt more active to us throughout its stroke, likely because it is so eager to go into its travel at the very beginning.

We are not going to go so far as to say that the Vivid Air R2C is ever going to replace the coil-sprung version on the World Cup circuit - top racers can be a finicky bunch and air suspension has not been popular so far - but we wouldn't be all that surprised to see it pop up on a few top riders' bikes more often than in years past. And as for the average rider and racer, air suspension is beginning to make a lot more sense, if not for the weight loss, certainly for the adjustability.

Vivid R2C

The coil-sprung Vivid R2C is always going to offer a more active ride than its lighter weight brother simply due to it not having to deal with the seals required by the air spring, but like any long-stroke shock, it still employs the same IFP within its piggyback - every time the shock is compressed it must also push against the 250psi behind the IFP. Fitting the Counter Measure negative spring to the standard Vivid R2C has created a shock that is so gung-ho to get into its stroke that it takes only the slightest impact to have it activate, and it is fair to say that we were impressed with the responsiveness that RockShox has been able to create. The difference in performance between a non-Counter Measure Vivid and the 2014 model doesn't seem as pronounced as the contrast between the new and old Vivid Air shocks, but that is to be expected given the already active nature of the coil-sprung Vivid. Unfortunately, there were no older model Vivids for us to compare back-to-back, but you can expect a comparison review in the near future that goes deeper into the performance differences.


RockShox
  Does it get any better? High above San Remo, Italy.




RockShox's Jeremiah Boobar explains the Vivid R2C

Views: 23,381    Faves: 159    Comments: 72





RockShox
  While most of us were happy to simply carry good speed down this section near the end of the run, Giant's Danny Hart took to the air to find smoother lines. To say that it was an impressive display of riding would be a gross understatement.

Rock Shox Blackbox boss Jon Cancellier gives us a sneak peak at Troy Brosnan s Vivid Air prototype featuring compression rebound and rebound end stroke adjustments as well as a volume adjuster.
  BlackBox technician Jon Cancellier holds up an earlier Vivid Air R2C prototype, a shock that employed a preliminary version of the Counter Measure system, while at last year's Pietermaritzburg World Cup. RockShox has decided to forgo the volume adjustment feature (note the knob on the end of the piggyback ) on the production version due to testers not feeling the need for it and the small amount of added weight.

RockShox
  RockShox long-travel Product Manager Jeremiah Boobar has played a big role in the Vivid project from the very beginning, and the latest Vivid R2C shock is an evolution of those earlier designs. The man can throw down on bike, too, which certainly doesn't hurt.


www.rockshox.com

348 Comments

  • + 283
 WAIT WAIT WAIT.....i cant buy this becuase im not good enough? thats the stupidest thing i have ever heard!!! how are they going to make any money only selling to the top 1% or riders!!!!!!
  • - 8
 I don't think they're trying to make money off this shock, they wanted to make a shock that will give they're riders and advantage and hopefully more wins in the World Cup. Yeah it sucks we can't buy it, but they said that we wouldn't even be able to get the advantages from the shock.
  • + 98
 Let the training begin...
  • + 286
 Could you imagine having bike/component companies determine what they will sell you based upon your skill level? I'd be stuck with Suntour and Promax the rest of my life! Confused
  • + 13
 once they fix the shocks blowing and destroying themselfs ill think about purchasing a new vivid, till then i guess im going to have to stick with my old blown vivid, that had a rebuild only a few months ago
  • + 17
 BlackBox is their R&D and early Dev program. Pros get the goods early, then consumers get it later. Basically an article letting the public know what's inside the gear pros will be running the next 18 months. Consumers will probably see it as a 2015 model year product assuming performance is good and all the kinks are worked out.
  • + 4
 Seems like RS wants to extend the Black Box program to other pros for additional R&D. They're probably hoping their top pros will get wins with it to get folks into aspirational mode and excited to purchase when made generally available.
  • + 100
 RockShox and Sram were well known for their costumer friendly behavior - servicing their forks was never easier (especially compared to Fox).

Now they say that 97% of their costumers are too bad for their latest products.

Great Move RockShox, i think your marketing director should be fired.
  • + 9
 I just got my new 2014 vivid R2C...I dont like it so check my buy/sell in the next few weeks.
  • - 15
 Can't any of you tell that he's being sarcastic? why would they announce a product say they can sell it everyone then not sell it? Basically they've made a product its not totally finished so don't want to announce when you can buy it.
  • + 23
 so basically only pro riders can get their mits on one of these, but think. out of the 3% who are "good enough" for the shock, how many are sponsored by other companies like fox, manitou, marzo etc. and other than rock shox team riders you probs only have 1% who qualify and can actually buy it? there are many riders out there who shred just as hard as any racer but dont race. i honestly think this is a terrible idea and these shocks should be available to anyone.
  • + 12
 boobar with the early lead in the 2014 academy awards nominations for best supporting actor. classic.
  • + 31
 Have ya ever gone riding with a Pro? How about an Olympic Athlete?? Have you ever seen a bunch of geared-up "free-riders" riding big travel bikes on the north shore get whooped?? Both times I was in that group and we had assumed that we would arrive at the parking lot first because we ride every weekend in, on and around the north shore where we lived.... the CROSS COUNTRY racer who was the Olympic Athlete riding in spandex beat us down to the parking lot by five minutes on HER race bike. We all work in bike shops, and have ridden hard for 8 or more years. I raced for 17 years, I'm not slow, neither are any of the guys that I ride with.... but we got whooped!!
  • + 9
 Sooo... has anyone considered that this was just a poor attempt to be sarcastically funny? Pretty sure that no marketing team would be so dumb as to alienate their market and only make products available to people who require little to no price to run them. This is pretty bad either way
  • + 24
 Pompous bastards , is it for pro's only because it falls apart every other run? , if you have this much to spend on a rear shock and don't want the coil options (marzocchi, fox etc...) just order a canecreek double air! .
  • + 3
 Sicklines is reporting all of these same pictures but saying its the 2013 line up. Someone dun screwed up!
  • + 12
 Whet the public apetite, ring the bell, get the dogs drooling, then right before we all go nuts put it up for sale. Good marketing.
You doubt me? Why else give us the price? 99% of us would look at it once and say no way, but when they say we can't have it suddenly we all want it.
This is going to sellout in 2014 when it goes on the market for the rest of us.
  • + 2
 In a way this is really smart, like evil genius smart. Because they are telling us that we cant have this rear shock it is generating a whole lot of hipe. i can just like guarantee this is all everyone is going to be talking about for a while. All Blackbox products are trickledown products. They have them on a very few people bikes to test and then it eventually trickles down to the regular consumer. Soon enough us Average Joes will be able to buy this product. I am not really sure if this is the greatest way to go about releasing a product but yeah
  • + 68
 Good thing I'm on the list!....hah...sike.

This is 100% Marketing and steps as follows:

1) 1st Part - Create Desire - Introduce Product as "PRO'S Only" ("Special Edition") technology through mass media, etc...Why would they show us in the first place then if they really wanted only Pro's to ride it? To brag in your face? To really tell you "HA HA you guiseee suxx0rs!". No. This creates Desire. Show us something we can't have, for now. The MTB crowd especially DH, LOVES to follow what the pro's do/use..if they literally told you that piece of cardboard was good as a rear axle, 80%+ would follow.... Marketing in MTB is fairly straightforward, we all drool over the stuff the Pro's and only Pro's have access to, for good or worse.

2) 2nd Part - Create Demand & Wait - This period where they say "Pro's Only" is a good time for them to keep eye on things and see how the product performs before "real" release, whether due to problems, refinement testing, etc. Cause, no company without their Consumers can sustain themselves, 98% time, IT IS for the consumers. That's just how economics work. So for them to tell us, this isn't for you is pretty much see-through tactic. More marketing at this point for us to see and be reminded of. 1 year down the road?

3) 3rd Part - Delivery - All of a sudden, one day, they say "Hey! Through some process of ___insert thing___, we got this technology or decided to pass this product to you, YES YOU, the 70%+ who thinks they must have the latest and greatest!". They'll make it seem very special that the product gets passed on to us..

4) ???

5) Profit.

Surprised RS decided to go this way with marketing...Either way, this stuff will be passed down to consumers whether or not this is a "strategy". Competitiveness from other brands/companies and need for money will push the product to us. MTB products is usually 1/2 marketing anyways...
  • + 6
 why is the vivid air heavier then the coil? I presume these weights are measured without a spring?
  • + 11
 I love these marketing schemes, gives me a rush
  • + 9
 Really they just came up with a clever way to say "we aren't ready to release the new vivid to the general public but have enough ready to roll out to people who will pay their own money to test our products for us"
  • + 4
 @tabletop, that was a beautiful article, right into the bookmarks!
  • + 1
 @scotlanddownhill It's because the coilover is weighted without the steel coil.
  • + 1
 @Spicy-Mike
This is absolute f*cking truth, i's all there is..
  • + 1
 @kevinthelilbiker Nail on the head. How to get a large group of quality riders to beta test your product. They could have said nothing and released this product as the 2014/2015 Vivid but this is really clever.
  • + 12
 Just buy Cane Creek Double Barrel it's dedicated to all of us Wink
  • + 7
 Looks like a TR450 :-|
  • + 2
 I'm sure they would release if the risk of failure out weighed the price. I would not be surprised if this is made available to the public in a year or so after all the kinks are worked out. However I'm not sure why they are giving so much info to the public. Reading this article is making me want a more powerful rear shock, and since this one is not available to me I may go get a new fox or cane creek db. Not sure how this type of marketing helps them, prob a bad call on rock shox part.
  • - 6
 ok,now i will not buy their shocks because they are assholes,i would rather buy sountour than fucking rs..fucking assholes,i hope rock shox will sink , fuckers
  • + 22
 Thanks Boobar,

You just sold me a Cane Creek Double Barrel Air for my new bike

Here Cane Creek "Please take my money"
  • + 2
 Could care less about the marketing. I'm not arrogant enough to think I'm in the realm of these top-shot riders. Would I like to try and possibly own? Sure. Is my season F***ed because I don't have one? No. Will others not on the list get a chance? I'm willing to bet we will.
  • + 7
 didn't want it anyway...
  • + 2
 Marketing's kinda dumb if you ask me... flawed is a better term. First they go off saying its completely amazing, Then say how its actually not that noticable unless youre the most elite rider
  • + 0
 Its called Reverse Marketing - now you want it even more, because you cant have it. right.....
  • + 10
 Artificially creating a "halo" product, that is still not as good as CCDB or BOS.
  • + 3
 Interesting that Norbz and Curtis are featured plenty in that video yet their names have been left off the list of uci pros on the sram site......looks like they dont get one either
  • + 2
 well they are sponsored by sram so i think they are an exception, but it would be funny if they didn't.
  • + 1
 It got to be the dumbest marketing move in a long while.

They are acknowledging that they are not able to mass produce a decent and reliable rear shock, so that they have to hand pick guinea pigs to ride it, and still try to spin it like something positive.

"Counter measure"? Really? For a negative coil spring? Just like I have in my old fork?

Their target audience are gullible 15 year olds it seems.
  • + 4
 We'll only sell to the top 1% = the first 1000 batch from china are all leaking. but we've still got the 150 from the preproduction batch that the chinese made right to get the order, but we need to get it out to the market before Boss corner the market or Fox bring their air shock out.
  • + 4
 Funny thing is that something like CCDB platform is technically more "complex" but despite that CC still makes a forum/dedicated site just to share, inform, and help all levels of consumers...
  • + 1
 hahaha tabletop84 that article you linked was great
  • + 3
 hahahaahahahahahahahahahahaha rockshox you have out done yourself great marketing just great, but most people are talking about the marketing and not looking into the tech, lets start with the Counter Measure spring that is not new at all!! specialized put a spring like that into their brain shock with help from fox after it wasn't work good enough over alot of small bumps a few years back and setting it up for small and big hits is what CC have been doing for years. get some new ideas, dont just get ideas off other companies who sell it to everyone and put it into your shock and say its special because its not!!!
  • + 1
 what if this whole thing isn't a marketing scheme...
  • + 1
 What would it be then? Genuine stupidity? Inability to produce a product?
  • + 2
 whatever marketing this is, if 97% of customers can't make the difference between the old and the new version, it's probably because their ain't much of it. If their is, than they f*cked up their add.

On the other side, you have DVO poping up with CG and saying to everyone that they can understand and tune their fork and shock if they follow the steps they'll give us and that we are good enough to do so.
  • + 1
 Spicy Mike is right to a certain extent but its also good to have the pros test the prototypes instead of the public. Making their shock more complicated seems like it might make it more unreliable.
  • + 1
 That's not good, that would be NORMAL. Releasing products that are actually not ready to be released is just BAD! Which unfortunately happens all too often..
  • + 1
 What they are doing is like telling the girl you want to get with that she's fat: oh yea! you got her attention now! but its not like you can take it back and say 'haha i was just kidding', its OUT there and she's never gonna get with you.

This kind of sensation whoring is like Paris hilton or Lindsey lohan or Geert Wilders, its like a little child who resorts to the negative attention of throwing tantrums, just because it wants attention and cant get enough in a positive way. Plain pathetic.
  • + 2
 They haven't said just kidding. In this case she is still fat. But that doesn't mean they don't like them large, just that she won't fit the skimpy swimsuit she is looking at on the rack. Frankly I would rather they save us the cost of the bikini.
  • + 3
 In a way they re geniuses. There pulling a Night club and making them exclusive. Only letting the best have them makes the not so best want them even more. When these are released to the public they are going to sale so damn fast you wouldn't even be able to buy them without preordering. And in a way they have already created way more hype then almost anything PB has ever posted on. 300+ comments in a few days!!! They are playing us like a card game.... But only a card game where you counting cards
  • + 2
 It's a bit risky because it can also mean that a few people won't buy it when shocks like the ccdb are around. But there are enough sheeple out there in the mtb-crowd...
  • + 2
 Didn't last long, this marketing move
www.facebook.com/rockshox/posts/573987202620769
"The RockShox Vivid and Vivid Air will be available to all at your local bike shop and distributor starting May 2013. [...]"
  • + 2
 Judging from comments around the interwebz, they had been ripped a new one. Now take down that stupid smug video linked here and pretend nothing had happened. Oh, and fire the new PR guy.
  • + 3
 What an angry twit
  • + 2
 so they are playing the whole thing off as a joke?
  • + 1
 They forgot that when you are in a hole it is better to stop digging.

Their PR/marketing are just not professional. They do not know what they are doing.
  • - 3
 Lol, I pre-paid mine like 2 weeks ago, picking it up when it arrives in mid may. People actually think that a company would do this? Shame.... shame on you.
  • + 3
 People did not think they will actually do anything in particular. People had been commenting about idiotic promotional video stating that.
[Reply]
  • + 165
 Don't worry everybody, we here at DVO want everyone to experience what great suspension feels like and 100% of the people are important to us! The Jade rear shock is coming soon. Cheers, DVO!
  • + 44
 Yes DVO! Congrats on getting CG aboard and make a 160mm travel fork for me to buy! (If I'm allowed)
  • + 37
 Haha, perfect timing for some serious new competition to step onto the scene.
  • + 10
 Yes DVO! Respect! Big Grin
  • + 4
 Also air system?
  • + 6
 Will you guys be making a DVO dh air shock? Cant wait to test out your products!
  • + 2
 Air or just spring?
  • + 4
 I just glad you guys came and pissed in RS cereal. I don't like when companies do stuff like that try to market crap like this. I don't care how great it is. I dare say it's almost dumb as Specialized doing the thing about their bike being stolen. Having your bike stolen isn't cool.
  • + 3
 Yep. What an incredibly dumb move from Rock Shox. I am perfectly happy with CCDBA, but I would certainly check out DVO next time around. Besides having a great product I do appreciate not being treated like a moron. Eff you Rock Shox, you can keep your toys, that are still not as good.
  • + 2
 I'll probably try and get an emerald cuz my boxxer works OK (of course depending on the price tag)
  • + 2
 yeah DVO, that's awesome.

also, what's this about specialized's bikes getting stolen?
  • + 14
 good guy DVO
  • + 9
 HAHA I would LOVE to see the look on that pompous prick's face when he sees DVO's comment LOOOL
  • + 18
 We plan on having both an air and coil shock in all lengths for Enduro and DH applications. All with solid designs, no gimmicks, excellent build quality, and full support on tuning and service information for the novice to the World Cup Pro. Everyone is important, our products and customer service will speak for themselves. Cheers DVO!
  • + 6
 SSOOOOO Stoked for you guys to have Cedric on the team!!!
  • + 3
 Also super excited for DVO's products, their tunability approach, and CG!! If you make coil sprung versions of your usd forks, I guarantee you, I WILL buy them DVO, shocks as well!
  • + 10
 DVO, you just gained full respect from me right there ahahaah
  • + 4
 DVO Hijacking comments? Awesome!
  • + 1
 Nice. Hopefully you'll have kits for Spez Enduro 2010/2011...
  • + 1
 I'm more than down with DOV! My life will just go downhill from the purchase. I think I'll need a doctor too because something is going to feel (sic).
  • + 1
 dvo is the best those colors will bring you to the top yo not to mention inverted forks look amamzing so bascilly when some idiot decides they dont like your forks and shocks ill buy em cuz im a cheap mother fucker
  • + 2
 YEAH!! Green (and all its shades) is the new black! DVO, don't make the same mistake as RockShox!
[Reply]
  • + 17
 "97% of riders out there lack the skill to push the vivid to its limits" Sooooo they're going to aim for 3% of the market with this product. I don't know what is going through their heads....
  • + 63
 Heres the thing though, 97% of the riders out there think they are part of the 3%. Wink
  • + 8
 and the riders in the 3% are sponsored
  • + 28
 This leads me to believe this product is: a) in beta testing and not ready for prime time. b) Rock Shox is having reliability issues in testing and don't want to deal with warranty issues until they can be contained to smaller numbers.
  • + 4
 I think k1creeker is on the right track. The reliability of the original vivid was shit and I can't see this one being much better.
  • + 4
 Yeah k1creeker has it correct I think, I don't know many people who haven't blown up Vivids
  • + 1
 But they could have not told is the price, or even called it a prototype. You might be right, but i say this was to whet our whistles.
  • + 1
 Brilliant idea.

This plan adds exclusivity - once anyone can buy it people will feel like they're getting pro level stuff. Also, after the first season's testing is finished and the riders offer feedback the shock will be better fine tuned for general release (i.e. the pro racers are guinea pigs/soft release for Rock Shox). Pros are a good test panel since they do scheduled maintenance and can really exploit the differences from one shock to another. Most riders can't be bothered to set up a bike correctly, regardless of cost.

I'd also assume Rock Shox has limited production capabilities one way or another and can't fill all the orders right away ...
  • + 6
 Hey Jeremiah, thanks for your condescending and patronizing video. A shock so advanced we likely won't get to experience its full benefits? A shock so exclusive that only a select few people can ever ride it? What a load of crap!

If you're going to spend 6 years doing R&D to make such an "amazing" product, how bout telling us how we're going to benefit from the trickle down of technology rather than just wagging it in our faces and sticking your tongue out at us? Don't forget what Eddie Murphy said:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=J61aeN7apF0
  • + 2
 its okay... i can get one. hhahahhaa muhahhaa
  • + 2
 Do you want to get one? Looks like Rock Shox suspension now is either for smug douches (new Vivid), or for crappy, unskilled riders who do not even care about shitty performance of their suspension (the rest of their line). Brilliant choice.

Do not know about you, but I am neither.
  • + 1
 I think most new changes aren't noticeable to most people unless it is something big, and then everyone resists it and claims they are being manipulated. It is possible RS is just being realistic. A mistake they won't repeat if that's what's going on.
  • + 1
 Realistic about what? That average riders do not care about their suspension? That's bollocks. Love my CCDBA, one of the best improvements for my bike ever.

They are just not capable of mass producing a reliable part, that's all. Came out with the most idiotic plan ever to hide that fact.
  • + 2
 I bet after a few months of the shock being released they will put it up on the market due to not selling enough. If not then a whole new black-market will be brought in selling the shock. There is no way that they can stop people getting their hands on the shock if it really is as good as they say. Personally I'll just take the cane creek.
  • + 0
 Realistic in that most people can't tell the diference when they turn their dials. Period.
RS not capable of mass producing a reliable part? You obviosly weren't a fan to begin with if you think that. As for me, I've had 2 rs forks and have been extremely pleased with both. I've only had fox shox in the back, but i have had repeated problems with the rp23 and my brother has had 3 dhx coil shox stop functioning in some way. He swithches to marz and rs and has not looked back.
  • + 1
 I do run Lyrik DH, and my my wife runs SID. They work fine. But the reasoning not to sell a shock, that is less tunable than popular CCDBA, for example, is the most idiotic, misguided and obnoxious reason ever. It is telling your paying customers that because they are dumb, they can only have second best. There could be NO legitimate reason for this. The only possible reasonable explanation would be if they could not make a large enough production run and try to spin it. Thankfully there are companies out there who make a better product and do not employ idiots in marketing.
  • + 1
 I don't think it amounts to being dumb, but rather lacking the finely tuned sensitivity to recognize the difference. That said, in blind taste tests no conosur can tell cheap box wine from expensive stuff. Chances are if most of us can't tell the pros can't either. ergo, no difference
  • + 1
 "Fine tuned sensitivity"? What a load of bullshit.
It is not the question of whether you can tell the difference, or care about it. (I can and I do) It is the question of how you treat your customers. What I was referring to was the implied message: "You are to clueless, so you can only buy second best stuff". It is an idiotic message. Nobody in his right mind will treat his customers like that.
My customers do not need 90% of features in my product. Telling them that is the easiest was to lose a contract. Not because they do not know that, but because it is obnoxious and insulting to communicate in this way.
Do not try to defend idiocy. They either can't produce the goods, or they are morons.
  • + 1
 Would it be that different if RS said "We're doing an extended Black Box release program for any rider that can qualify for a Pro license"?
  • + 1
 @ taletotell.... the wine analogy is bad..... I'm not even close to what I would consider a connoisseur, I just work in the beverage industry and can blind taste like a motherf@ckr.....
  • + 1
 mrbrett has a point, the pros get alot of crap the public doesn't, it's like the hybrid 40 for example (you can get it on the session 9.9 but not many have the cash, and if they did they don't have the skill) or how some frames are custom made exactly for a rider with a specific weave and everything (although thats more road/xc not dh)
  • + 1
 @OldSkoolAK: if you understood my analogy it was good enough. Enjoy your blind tasting.
@Axxe: yes, I am sure their intention (implication. . .) was that you and all the rest of us we are clueless. That was the goal. That explains why they said they all enjoy carnal knowledge of your sister, made fun of your mom and insulted your haircut.
Bunch of premadonnas. . .
It was either a marketing gimic gone wrong (though how wrong will really be seen when it really does go on the market), or they are the engineers and pros who know something about it and not all improvements are significant enough to improve the ride enough to justify calling it an upgrade, but it might be the first step towards something that does. Either way, it obviously is not intended to be an insult. Look forward to future innovations or buy your self a CCDB. Either way stop taking it so personally.

I accept the neg props that will come of this. It means you read it.
  • + 1
 @mrbrett: Yes phrasing it that way would be perfectly fine. No fancy press releases though.

@taletotell: I do not take it personally. I do not care about their rear shock at all, would not buy it in any case. And I will keep using my Lyrik DH, which I think is the best AM fork right now. I am commenting on a blatantly idiotic PR move from Rock Shox. And you are trying to defend them - which actually seems far more personal.
  • + 1
 people getting worked up over the small stuff gets me worked up haha. touche
[Reply]
  • + 18
 Looks amazing! I might just have to upgrade my 2012 Vivid Air to a newer model Smile
[Reply]
  • + 13
 The joys of marketing spin and bollox all rolled up in 1 video.
The bottom line is that many riders have not gone faster for years.
The Fort William time seems to get slower and slower, year on year on a track that is often faster than the previous year.
Many riders still use the Minion up there, there have been many newest, best, most pro, fastest tyres since then but they have not slaughtered the minion.

Many pro riders use more compression damping on their shock, you cant pump the back side of an obstacle with something that is super mega brilliant, best ever, floating on oil, plush (never heard so much BS in my life).

As for the marketing strategy, of trying to create desire.... who cares.

My Vivid coil is faster on my Scalp than the air, as the frame is designed around a coil, mu vivid Air is faster on my Nomad than the coil as the frame is designed around an Air shock (timing on Freelap).

The best "feeling" shock I have ever owned is an Avalanche Woodie, I wonder when they will move away from air again and Nitrogen charge shocks, telling us how good that is compared to air....

2 weekends ago a guy on a Hard tail beat over 50% of the field on Dh bikes. He had this new technology for rear suspension called..... Legs!

Must stop ranting.... I have been a development engineer for nearly 20 years, marketing do my nut in. Smile
  • + 1
 A guy on a HT beating guys on DH bike is a completely irrelevant argument, as he would most likely beat himself if he were on a full bouncer.
  • + 4
 care to provide evidence ..... no, your statement is a guess! It is a fact, therefore presentable. He had no new toy on the back of his bike to make him go faster, just the skill he possessed to ride his bike fast.
  • + 3
 You can be so random sometimes betsie and entirely missing my point. cba explaining if you didn't get it.
  • + 3
 Marketing can make the job of an engineer much harder than it ever needs to be (trust me, I live with the fall out every day).

The purpose of including the performance of someone on a hard tail, taking part in a downhill race was to illustrate that it is not the suspension that made him fast, but the pilot.
It is true that this shock may make a rider 0.1% faster down a hill than the previous version, in certain conditions. But what next, is the rear shock now better than the front shock, so a new fork iteration is required.
I would love to know what the engineers who design for RS would like to see in a fork, that is outside of their COG's allocation from their sponsors. What can really be pushed in terms of performance, weight, reliability etc. I would guess that this shock would not look like it does just now.

Having worked for SME's to very large multinational companies in R&D in oil, military, aerospace, and the medical industry, it is amazing who is constrained by what budgets, what decisions are over ruled by the needs of marketing, who gets to do the "real" development, and what influence you have when you work for a mass manufacturer compared to a bespoke design house or high reliability, high temperature downhole tool manufacturer.

If you look at the bike industry, the small companies are often constrained by material selection, the large by marketing requirements, some try to deviate, develop and integrate new solutions but often we, the consumer revert to type due to what we are used to. The gearbox bike, the Empire, the millard bike, the Anchilotti all were different, but essentially we all ride bikes that have no great innovation that has been ground breaking. Which brings me back to.... a guy on a traditionally shaped hard tail with a short travel fork beat many on their high end Dh bikes, dripping with kit.... because the pilot is still the main influence on suspension, we have more influence on how a bike rides than any shock.
  • + 2
 I do not care how fast pros ride. I do not race the clock. I still can appreciate well performing, well tuned suspension. Comfort, safety, easier to climb..
  • + 1
 cane creek double barrel is the way forward, all rockshox EVER does is re-brand their old tech and borrow some from other people. would not touch with a barge pole! as wouldn't make it to the bottom before it blew up! like almost every vivid ever made.

it is WELL proven suspension that does not drop wheels into holes IS faster as less square edge hits so less loss of speed. all they are doing is sugar coating a tech that is implemented in the wrong way to claim itll make you faster when factually it wont.

why do you think ALL top pro's run their super hard (less loss of energy in suspension) with super slow rebound, to stop wheels falling into holes. i know this for fact having spent time with Al bond last season (ex crc/nukeproof rider) and now actually have his old fork, having left at his settings is admittedly so much better then i achieve before with my old 888. so actually stiffened and slowed my CCDB to suite and can easily say i am in more control with more speed then ever before. even to point i have spring rate in fork one up from what i am supposed to run and a shock coil 75-100lbs heavier then supposed to. and its really really works, 30% sag is too much.
[Reply]
  • + 12
 Think it's a pretty cool idea to be honest. Don't understand what people are moaning about. Surely it's a good thing that they believe in their product so much to be this honest and say they doubt most riders will be able to use it to it's full ability. Shows they're not just in it for the money. It's probably also another way to test the shock on a bit of a wider scale before releasing it to the masses anyway. Stop moaning, go set your current shock up correctly.
  • + 4
 Most of us need 2 inches less travel and much cheaper bikes, doesn't mean they don't sell it to us. This is a marketing gimic wrapped around a prototype. It'll be forsale half way through 2014.
  • + 1
 taletotell - I think that's a common misconception. I'm nowhere near a pro rider, yet I can still use a good bike well. I believe my status is pretty well built, and according to this nonsense I should probably ride an old hardtail 'cos I'm not getting good results at races, neither bombing utah with all the confidence in the world.
However, thanks to my bike, I can somewhat ride the double diamonds on North Shore or pro lines in Whistler, and if I didn't have my boxxer wc up front, I would pretty sure eat mud much more often (had a RC couple months ago, and still can use the difference). Not to mention riding it on a bike that's "my level", 'cos then I would just ride down the shuttle road. Same goes for replacing my Atlas bars with some cheap 680s or maybe jus a shock the discussion is all about here. I could use a bit more high speed compression, but to tinker with that, I need either to get some of the best shocks, or do a custom tuning, why shouldn't I be allowed to do that just 'cos I'm not all that good. To me, downhill biking is all about having fun and getting faster, riding harder, and having a proper bike clearly makes it happen ever since my begginning not even 3 years ago.
  • + 2
 if you know how to use your highspeed compression you aren't part of the ignorant masses. It is true a DH rig is needed for the more intense DH trails, but a lot of them aren't used there. I would bet that most people on 180 travel rigs could get by with a burly 6. Half the people on this site think suspension is for jumps. The few things that make a big difference for most of us is wheel weight and bar width and the difference between hydraulic and cable brakes. Other than that requires time and effort to learn and adjust and I don't think most riders do that.
How many negative reviews are user error? Don't give us too much credit man. A vanilla r coil is more than enough for most riders.
PS this was the topic of an article recently, and there was a cool video of a couple of guys on xc bikes doing crazy FR a while back too.
[Reply]
  • + 16
 Thanks, I will buy a CCDB. At least they let me buy it -.-
[Reply]
  • + 15
 Maybe Fox has a shock I'm allowed to buy.
  • - 1
 No doubt eh.
  • + 3
 or X-Fusion
  • + 5
 Cane Creek, I mean really is there even a purpose other than the negative spring on this to consider the new vivid
  • + 1
 my vivid air is fine, I don't need this neg spring shit imo
[Reply]
  • + 15
 This is probably Duncan Riffle's work.
[Reply]
  • + 11
 According to the RockShox Facebook page, only the top 50 UCI Ranked Pros qualify. Why are there no women on this list Rock Shox?

sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/181060_571916799494476_1816286664_n.jpg
  • + 3
 Too bad that the top three are on Fox. And Gwinny running Sram everything on his new bike except suspension must be a slap in the face to them.
  • + 4
 The woman are on there, look again, there are however no black men or woman on that, racists!
  • + 3
 ^^^ IKR!!!! Tell me Elliot Jackson wouldn't push one of these to the edge!!!!
  • + 1
 Exactly who I was thinking of, that guy kills it!
  • + 3
 So according to that, brandon semenuk, kurt sorge, darren berrecloth... etc. can't have it
  • + 5
 Exactly Kevin267, They are not PRO UCI riders, therefore they are weak, slow and have no skill! Or appearently that's the way RS sees it.....
  • + 4
 The women weren't on there when Circes first posted the comment. They were added afterwards.
  • + 1
 ^thought I had just missed it at first....
[Reply]
  • + 14
 The new VividAir is very beautiful ! 3
[Reply]
  • + 11
 So why do they have journalists testing these shocks out? Is Mike Levy going to race world cups this year? I think this article wasn't supposed to come out until April 1st.
[Reply]
  • + 8
 Does rockshox have enough money already that they don't need to sell this to everyone? Why even post this non-sense if we cant buy it...a virtual "na na na na boo boo" What is next rockshox, are we not invited to your birthday party either?
  • + 13
 Pretty ridiculous. You show us this then tell us we can't have it? Good one Rockshox.
  • + 3
 i thought that improved rockshox tech that we all can't buy was just called blackbox????
[Reply]
  • + 9
 Porous surface holds oil better? Yeah!

That's not a new idea. An invention called the "internal combustion engine" uses textures on surfaces to maintain hydrodynamic lubrication and has for the last 100 years or so.
[Reply]
  • + 8
 Too bad it's Rock Shit and after destroying a front AND rear shock of theirs TWO years in a row I'm beyond giving them the benefit of the doubt. Long live Fox and Marzocchi.
[Reply]
  • + 7
 I understand the marketing strategy behind RS saying, "97% of riders won't be able to push the new Vivid hard enough to tell the difference", but seriously, really, honestly, did one of the main suspension brands in the world just tell its whole consumer base (everybody thats not already sponsored and getting suspension for free), that they suck too badly to tell a difference in their suspension? Are they REALLY insulting their consumer base!? There has to be a better explanation for this than that they thought it was a good marketing strategy to insult all of us.
[Reply]
  • + 9
 You need to be a pro rider to buy this shock?
That's ridiculous.
  • + 13
 its bullshit
  • + 5
 Only Sram product ill ever buy is shifter and derailleur. I'll stick with my "antiquated" 40 and RC4.
  • + 1
 yes, sram shifters and shimano brakes
[Reply]
  • + 7
 The list doesn't even include any female riders.

I guess Anne Caroline is not in the top 3%
[Reply]
  • + 4
 Hah must be some kind of joke or extreme marketing stunt. Either way, definitely comes off as pretty douchey and really gives me no desire to give them my money at all. OMG your shock can be tuned for small bump sensitivity and big hits?? Wait.. so can any other high end shock. I say make your stuff shiny gold or gtfo.
[Reply]
  • + 4
 After 4 minutes of you telling me how awesome your product is then you tell me I'll never be able to buy one. What a waste of time, I guess I'll have to stick with my tried, tested and true Fox shock that I was allowed to buy.
[Reply]
  • + 4
 So the biggest change is a large increase in small bump sensitivity which translates to higher speeds, better traction and more comfort. Rockshox is completely out to lunch or must think we're all pretty stupid if they think that that 97% of riders wouldn't benefit by those improvements. Maybe they're talking about hardtail riders!?
[Reply]
  • + 6
 Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla ...........
[Reply]
  • + 6
 Way to go Rockshox...
You just managed to blow smoke up the @ss of 97% of your customer base...
Not the brightest move surely :-/
[Reply]
  • + 3
 Ok.... so instead of buying a new vivid for my bike i might aswell but a rc4. And since Rock Shox now thinks their customers are slow ass clowns, i might aswell go for a new Fox 40 instead of replacing my r2c2 with a worldcup. Never thought ity would come to this but they aint getting one penny of my hard earned money anymore,
[Reply]
  • + 3
 Am I misunderstanding this? But if this new negative spring only effects the first 10mm of shock shaft movement, then basically it only improves the car park push test?! Once you get through to the sag point and further, this has zero effect? So, what's the point?
  • + 1
 I see where your coming from,what i would say to that is the bike isnt always in its sag position,i mean like when the bike is sometimes un-weighted through a rock garden for instance then if the rear wheel hit a top of a rock it would hardly be noticeable compared to a vivid you get now,which might cause you to tip forward more than you would want.Hope that helps.
  • + 1
 The point missed is that although yes it appears only to be relevant in the initial 10mm for the zero force movements as it were. The friction would still be prevalent through the travel of the shock, the spring will aide in resisting the friction over the whole stroke making it more supple.
  • + 1
 The point is more nuanced than that. THIS SYSTEM ELIMINATES THE DAMPING FROM THE FIRST 10mm and creates an undamped coil spring over that travel. A slight improvement for air, perhaps, but, unless you want undamped initial travel (and the delay caused by the sprung piston) it probably limits the tunability of a coil. Might give you more pop, however.
[Reply]
  • + 3
 Hold on a minute there Mike Levy Sir....

"We are not going to go so far as to say that the Vivid Air R2C is ever going to replace the coil-sprung version on the World Cup circuit"....

Errm, didn't I just read here:http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Pinkbike-Poll-Air-Suspension-in-World-Cup-Downhilling.html

This:
"There is no doubt in my mind that there will be a time when we see air-sprung forks and shocks widely accepted as the best equipment for World Cup downhill racing."

So I am genuinely confused now as to what you actually think, because use of the word "ever" in the first quote does seem to eliminate the potential for the second.
  • + 1
 there will always be people that love their coil shocks just like there will always be people that love their flat pedals, regardless of weather the air shock presents an advantage some people just prefer the slightly different riding experience offered
  • + 1
 Agreed. Me for one, however just as when I am talking to a friend of mine who one day says "Something will eventually replace iTunes" and then the next says "iTunes will never be replaced", I generallya sk for clarification, which is what I am doing here. I genuinely don&t understand what Mike is saying: one article says air will definitely replace coil, it's only a matter of time, and the other says, actually we're not going to go as far as say that. Confused? I am.
[Reply]
  • + 4
 It has been brought to my attention that I am not good enough to own a new Vivid. My self esteem has just been dropped ANOTHER notch. Now I will never feel good enough to even think about buying this shock... oh whoa is me.
[Reply]
  • + 3
 Its effectively a "Blackbox" product with a little bit more promotion and information available as there would be normally. The regular Vivid coil/air are superb shocks and good enough for most, better again Cane Creek Double Barrel should be the one everyone is aiming for.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Looks like I'll be stuck in the 97% of riders that can't have this shock... Guess I'll just stick with my CCDB then. :-)

On another note, the Nukeproof Pulse is really growing on me. Still don't like the 'Nukeproof' branding, looks and sounds cheap
  • + 4
 I was going to upvote this until I read the second line Razz
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Apparently they are not able to mass produce a reliable and well performing rear shock. Thus they figured out how to spin that fact.

I am probably in the bottom 3% of DH riders, but still can tell the difference with every click of CCDBA adjustments - and appreciate a well performing part.
[Reply]
  • + 5
 can't wait for the review of the new Pulse. At least I'll be ALLOWED to buy that!
[Reply]
  • + 2
 and im never buying rockshox agains thank you very much who the fuck tells people to buy their stuff then says your not good enough to hove it like wtf theres also people out there who just dont wanna race or anything like for instance those guys who tryed to do the record jump last year who the fuck says they cant have the shit
[Reply]
  • + 2
 This is a marketing gimmick... Don't get too attached to what they are saying. Cuz, bottom line...they want to sell these shocks. So, these guys need to make make gimmicks and create sensationalism around their product to even be in the running (or riding in this case). There are guys out there that are better riders than the UCI riders and do not want to follow that route. they want to shred just for the fun of it. lame video, lame statement.....might be a good shock, but that is not the point with this cocky marketing scheme.
[Reply]
  • + 3
 Lol what a bunch of horse shit. "Only our best rider can have this." I can guarantee that there are people that are not know at all, but push their bikes to the same limit as pro riders.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 It's a cool shock with a lot of technology and development. I'm sorry though, when did the road riding attidtude of elitism and having to be "good enough" for something invade mountain biking? That's crap in my opinion of RockShox.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Wonder if Rockshox made the Vivid Air compatible with my 2011 Specialized Demo?? Ruined 2 of the old ones up already grinding the tab down that’s supposed to guide the aircan into one of 4 positions – but this also hinders it from fitting into the “cage” on Demo…Might give it a try if Rockshox gives the thumbs up!!!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 This is quite comical. They aren't saying you aren't good enough for the shock, but if you aren't riding hard and fast enough to make your current shock fade (lose its damping or pressure during a run) then you won't see much difference with this product. Many of the parts pros use, whether in MTB or moto are to withstand the abuse, not function better. Do any of us really need heat treated gears or shafts in our transmissions? Many pros do. There is no performance improvement, just durability improvement.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Counter measure system is there to limit the shock's market availability.

Honestly though, are you guys dumb? Of course they're gonna sell it like any other shock the sell; it's a marketing campaign to get everyone excited about it being exclusive.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 www.ridefox.com/product.php?m=bike&t=shocks&p=99301&ref=filter Sorry but these fox peoples product and shit are both strait, and they figured out that being an a*shole to 97% of riders isn't going to make them money. Thus, I don't buy your stuff
[Reply]
  • + 5
 rockshox marketing department must look like this bit.ly/wODMmf
[Reply]
  • + 4
 I can't tell if that "your not good enough" thing is a joke or if they're actually serious.. They should fallow up.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 congratulations mr Boobar on alienating Rockshox from your biggest customer,not UCI competitors but lowly old mountain bikers like us, let us decide how we spend our money, you never know this may just be how you fund your development programe, by the way im now just about to spend my money on a brand new CCDB ha ha ha !!!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 so youre going to spend 4 minutes of my life telling me that this is the best shock ever and then tell me i cant have it... right.....

if i went to a bikepark and took the front wheels of everyone who wasnt cornering as fast as is humanly possible then there would be alot of unicyclists around!! just because we cant take it to the limit does that mean we arn't allowed it???

im not a poser, i don't have a 5000 carbon framed dh bike or a 29er hardtail with xtr bling but it seems pretty silly that you wont let average joe have one of these....

more importantly though what have you done to stop the lower shock eyelet unscrewing itself from the sanction that was my biggest problem with the vivids of past, the fact they dissasembled themselves as you ride!!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 What a cock. 90% of riders aren't good enough...... That is one way to sell products. I wont buy RockShox just for that comment. There are a lot of people who can ride just as good as pros. What a knob jocky. You can keep your shit products RockShox.
[Reply]
  • + 3
 Wow its so good but I can't have it??? Oh boy, golly now I'VE GOTTA HAVE IT... gee mister I'll do anything! bahaha f*ck*ng marketing
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Hmmmmm....
You don't need to be a card-carrying Mensa to realize that the best way to properly evaluate a shock, would be to mount it on a bike you have a LOT of experience riding on, and a track you know like the back of your hand.
When you hop on a new-to-you bike, and ride it on a new-to-you track, you're not only NOT gonna ride the bike (hence the shock) in its performance window, you're not even gonna be able to tell between what the chassis and linkage is responsible for, and what the shock is.
Until you memorize every bump, line, and corner on the track, and become comfortable enough with the bike to learn to differentiate between what the chassis is doing, and what the suspension is doing, you're quite frankly gonna be worthless as an evaluator.
And anybody with a pulse is gonna realize, ONE day riding on the shock is NOT enough to do so. That is, unless your name is Aaron Gwin, and you learn tracks in two runs, and have the ability to ride above a product's capabilities at will.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I've been looking at a Vivid Air/coil rear shock to put on my BigHit build. Now that the new one's come out (well, been announced) I'm really excited. Please tell me the whole "non-pro riders can't buy the shock" thing is a joke...
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Actually their marketing is working - look how much flame in comments this video made. If they would just post a video without something controversial no one would actually even give a shit about new vivid. And that "only 50 pro uci riders will get it" is just pure crap. Just making hype for their new product, that's all.
  • + 1
 lol read my reply to first comment.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Great article, Mike! Love your interpretation of the tech and the values you look for, such as getting to know the people behind the creation of such products. I also like how you step back and compare to other design challenges faced by other similar industries and how it was tackled for MTB specific purposes. Props!
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Nice marketing scheme Rockshox! Not selling this to 97% of the market...need a racing licsence to qualitfy to buy...Is this video a joke or what?!

Glad I'm running FOX front/back, always will...Crackers.
  • + 1
 Fox and Manitou will blow RS´s ass when it comes to damping, go RLC /TPC+.
[Reply]
  • + 5
 Bizarre marketing choice.
[Reply]
  • + 5
 Yeah rockshox... I love my Elka rear shock!
[Reply]
  • + 2
 I can just see all the "pros" buying this, only to sell them and make some $$$, so stupid of Rockshox. Like Tejj said, it will probably be available for everyone after a few months anyway.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Insanity, Rock Shox... So I'm well outside of the people that are "allowed" to buy the shock, but even if I could, using Glam Metal as your selling point for features of the shock is not the best idea. Seriously, you chose the lamest subcategory of Metal to highlight the features of this shock?

"Hey kids, remember when grown men used to wear spandex, tease their hair, put on their mother's make up and sing about roses having thorns? Remember how awesome that was? That's how awesome our shock is."

The only good thing to come from the glam metal scene was the thrash metal backlash.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 the marketing

2013 vivid rc2 = top 50 PRO riders only
top 50 PRO riders only = 97% Really Mad consumers
97% Really Mad consumers = ROCKSHOX ad tah dah!!! Now available to the public
ROCKSHOX ad tah dah!!! Now available to the public = HUGE $$$$$$$$ vivid rc2
HUGE $$$$$$$$ vivid rc2 = fox’s rc4 price
fox’s rc4 price = mike levy Beer
[Reply]
  • + 1
 This says it all, Dungey, Stewart, Reed all returning to Coil Spring. Moto has the best suspension engineers in the world working on this and they still can not make it right !

www.vitalmx.com/videos/member/Chad-Reed-My-Way-Suspension-Testing-For-Monster-Energy-SX,8524/ocscottie,405
[Reply]
  • + 1
 So actually if you have a Fox or any other shock and you are not a pro, you can't have the new Vivid. If you have the old vivid and you're not a pro you also shouldn't buy the new one, because you won't notice the difference. Who the f... did they make it for??? Was that supposed to be provocative? Maybe somebody from SRAM will explain it here?
[Reply]
  • + 5
 CANECREEK FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I am one of the 97% that wont be allowed to purchase this thing but I still see it as a marketing genious. See there are a lot more local pros out there than there are rock shox reps. So by telling the whole world that only the pros are allowed on these magical new dampers they have, now everyone is onna flock to their neaest pro who rides a vivid and that pro will o on and on about how magical they are. Meanin in 2 more years when the vivid is open to the public there will be all kinds of suspense and the tension will be released by selling semi loads of these shocks. By sellin to only pros they create more interest for the future and effectly multiply there sales fleet. That being said. I still wish I could ride one.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 "sadly 97% of riders out there lack the skill to push the vivid to it's limits" well no sh*t isn't that the case with most top end products? I always liked rockshocks love my vivid air rc2, and i know for a fact that i will never make it reach its potential, but i still love the thing. but this is a pile of crap, if a rider isnt a pro which is the majority, I think it is up to them to decide if they want to spend alot of unesesary money, not the manufactures choice! this is one of the dumbest moves rockshocks could have made, good for you.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Well, on the topics of statistics and customer target markets... Basically you have 5 main target groups during a product's lifecycle. Assuming that the customers are normally distributed and that you've excluded the non-interesting customers (professional riders getting the shit for free), you can roughly and a bit simplified say the following (walking through a normal distribution over time):

The first 2,5% of the customers are the so called innovators (willing to purchase the product the very second it is released, despite a high price and questionable quality, just for the sake of being first)
Thereafter follows Early Adopters (roughly 13,5%), Early Majority (roughly 34%), Late Majority (roughly 34%) and finally the laggards (roughly 16%).

Regarding which target market to satisfy, you can follow the principle that if you get access to satisfying the first market (innovators), you can then move along and get access to satisfying the succeeding ones, thus getting access to selling the product to a larger amount of potential customers during the product life. If your target market at the point of releasing the product would be the early majority, you will loose out on roughly 16% of the customers since they don't find it being exclusive enough for their need of "being special". Rock Shox's 3% rule corresponds to this quite well to the 2,5% mark of innovators, and this "theory" would imply that the shocks will indeed be sold to "normal" customers at some point in the future.

(disclaimer: this could just be one out of maaaany reasons; not enough manufacturing capacity, supplier trouble etc., I'm just adding this for the sake of discussion)

Science bitch.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 LOL @ Rock Shox....

Re-releasing an product saying its better and then telling everyone that they are too slow/dumb to use/tune it and its exclusive for pro's..... its completely see through marketing and treating your customers like idiots is going to get your sales through the roof no doubt. NOT!

"The new counter measure feature of your marketing strategy will no doubt increase the friction between RS and the customers money....."

Btw, love my new 2013 Boxxers......haha
  • + 1
 Love my 2013 r2c2 aswell, but if this is for real, it will be the last RS shock I bought.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Show 3 and half minutes selling the shock , telling you how much better it is than the original , then say you cannot have it as you are not good enough . This doesn't sound like a way to make money or happy customers ? PS im glad I can still buy your under performing shock to fit in that 97% window , make me feel special !
[Reply]
  • + 4
 fox rear suspension is better anyway!
[Reply]
  • + 2
 I cannot wait for the list of the other 97 - 99% of riders who get to use their sub standard equipment. That will take some sorting through, I hope I make the grade.
[Reply]
  • + 3
 Isn't this "new and revolutionary counter measure system" just negative spring in a shock instead of a fork?
[Reply]
  • + 2
 I've tried vivid coil last season. Stroke has exploded after 2 weeks. Please feel free to add extra springs. I will stay with fox.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I get the whole marketing strategy but, to say all you guys watching this aren't good enough for the product is a dick move. They should have just left it at "pro only" and avoided all of the shit their getting now.
[Reply]
  • + 3
 Anyone notice the dig at dvo? That bladders in shocks are not as reliable as floating pistons?
  • + 1
 Ye I did too, pretty lame.

A bladder literally has NO stiction, whereas an IFP has massive stiction detracting from damping performances. I also recon it should last at least as long as the o-ring on IFP's. Think about drive belts and all their applications, they fatigue so slowly, and only because they dry out; which they dont in an oil bath. And, I doubt it, but if cavitation could be reduced if the IFP moved faster (less stiction, less friction, lower mass), a bladder would be the solutiont: no stiction, éven lower friction (just viscosity of the rubber really) and probably less mass too. Furthermore a bladder thermally insulates the air from the oil and from the barrel, so the shock is less affected by heat buildup (the air also cools down slower, but that heat didnt get in there in the first place). I never gave it much thought but wtf.. could someone tell us why not all shocks run a bladder? Sealing is super easy too.
[Reply]
  • + 3
 Riddiculous statement at the end about giving it only to pro riders! You guys should take classes on how to run advertising.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Going by the amount of comments posted here and on other sites, I'd say congratulations RS, your marketing strategy has worked and you've got everyone talking about your new shock.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 So they make a product video, to show off and to market their new product, but at the end of it they tell you that you can't have one unless your a pro. Tha just seems like a stupid idea to me.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Im not really sure what the deal is with rockshox, this article made them seem pretty stuck up. It wont be any wonder why everyone is running fox next year when RAD technology is added to the 40 and rc4
[Reply]
  • + 1
 They put an internal spring on the piston shaft, then they think its the holy grail of suspension... only the capable are worthy. i say its the crappiest idea since some random guy discovered soap.
[Reply]
  • + 0
 FOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXFOXF
  • + 1
 Racing Shox or apparel?
[Reply]
  • + 0
 These fools got it all wrong!
Anything over three inches of travel, with less than 27 gears, more than 1" headtube and with hydraulic brakes is waaay more than I need for my skill level...yet, I ride a 38lb 7" travel bike because every time I run out of skill having more equipment than I need has saved my life...I guess RS doesn't care about my health...Thanks RS!
[Reply]
  • + 3
 Man I would totally say fuck rockshox because of this video but I like my lyric too much...
  • + 2
 Why such vivid language?
[Reply]
  • + 5
 Love the knobs
  • - 2
 WHO GIVES A SHIT
[Reply]
  • + 2
 So i watched this whole video of build ups and over expectancy to be told im not good enough for it.... champion PR levels rockshox, JUST TAKE MY MONEY.
  • - 1
 Could this be a secret way to prevent rival companies getting a hands on look at this new tech by Rockshox?
  • + 3
 It's more of a secret way to prevent anyone getting a hands on look at this new tech by Rockshox... Also they have a cut away photo of this 'new tech', with a red circle drawn on it so you can clearly identify what is the 'new tech'. That will foil those devious rival companies!
[Reply]
  • + 4
 The 'counter measure' system seems pretty interesting.
  • + 5
 its a negative spring, theyve been used in suspension forks for years, its not new technology its just in a new application
  • + 3
 I don't get one thing. When this spring is only active in the first 1cm of travel, why do I need it anyway? A correct sag would compress the damper far more, so the only time when it becomes useful is when an expert is pushing the saddle in the stand or when landing a jump so small it would not compress the damper...

Any ideas anybody?
  • + 2
 indeed X-Fusion does it on their Vengeance fork. It feels nicer than a traditional air negative spring but is quite a bit heavier.
  • + 3
 DrFlow, when unloading your bike going throug rockgarden you're gonna need every bit of suppleness your shock can deliver, especially in the initial part of the stroke. Wink
  • + 1
 Exactly what i said to another similar question posted further up,we know the score TAb66Smile
  • + 1
 XD We sure do. Wink
  • + 1
 TAb66 and merlinmarlee: got ya, thx. Didnt think about that aspect.
[Reply]
  • + 0
 They do it in every aspect of racing, pros always get it first. Its part of r & d, let the hardest people on equipment rip it first, work out kinks, once its statistically made them faster sell it to the public. Its always been that way. If you want one that bad go win some wc's ;p
[Reply]
  • + 4
 Fuck RS CCDB Rulez
[Reply]
  • + 2
 I had the 2012 Vivid Air and it was a total pile of sh*t...... they can keep it! FOX all the way!!
[Reply]
  • + 0
 Guys, this is a joke. This shock is going to be great. I don't know if it's an RC4 killer but it will be good. This is just poor marketing funnys from squares. Hence 2014, aka this summer.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Fuck you SRAM I was about to get out my credit card! I'll just be buying a cane creek then!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Cartman already did it with his "You can't go in" Theme park. If they won't sell to everybody people will buy Fox or Manitou. It's simple as that.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Does not make me want to switch from CCDBA. HSR and LSR seems more straightforward - I noticed that I do prefer speed sensitive to position sensitive.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Stupid move Rockshox, and I am a fan. You had me excited and everything was going great until you pulled that BS at the end. Go screw yourself.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Whats Next... Passing a test to ride DH Bikes? hhhmmmm never mind that sounds like a good idea.. lol
[Reply]
  • + 3
 Is Mike Levy good enough to tell the difference? Is Mike Levy on UCI list?
[Reply]
  • + 1
 The only reason probably is that UCI need more riders on a list, at least it sounds like that.
Well so who is registered and will send me air version? Smile
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I think DVO's bladder solution is far more elegant than a coil negative spring for reducing initial stiction. It will actually reduce it independent of position.
  • + 1
 indeed but imagine using both, itd be swwweeeeet Smile
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Why do people even bother with RS when there are so many better options. Nothing but bad experience with RS. PIKE was the only fork that lived up to the performance...
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Wow really fuck Rockshox iggnorance is what it is shiiry marketing...Garenteee some people will notice differences not just pros....fox or cane fuck RS
[Reply]
  • + 2
 this shock is SOO AWESOME!!! its way to AWESOOMMEE for YOU!!!! guess il go buy a fox then..........................
[Reply]
  • + 3
 snobbery at its finest....keep it rockshox il stick to my trusty fox
[Reply]
  • + 1
 If you go on the rockshox website the new vivids are on there and say nothing about the pro license!!! I think it was all a joke.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 add a short bungee - voilà - you just retrofitted your old airshock to 2013 spec. But then again coilovers with oil do just that - they are floating in the stroke.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 "It's the best of both worlds, just like make-up and metal"
You f%$*ing sh@£ sm%@~ing fu£%ing turkey!
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Just because I'm not registered as a pro doesn't mean I couldn't push this shock to the limit
  • + 3
 You see - they made you wish for it.

Forget about those jokers - buy Cane Creek/DVO/BOS/Elka/Xfusion...
[Reply]
  • + 2
 yes mike levy, i think air suspension will find its way into world cup downhill racing.
[Reply]
  • + 3
 just get a DB air...they are better, and readily available!
[Reply]
  • + 2
 "Goes together Like Metal and Makeup"?
Did he really say that?
And here I thought it was 2013.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 is a joke common .....look is for sell on rock shock site....: www.sram.com/rockshox/products/vivid-air-r2c
[Reply]
  • + 1
 There is a lot of people on here complaining who leave their settings alone because they can't tell the difference. Just saying.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Meanwhile, I will be patiently waiting to see what DVO brings to the table for the rest of us poor saps.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 think the Vivid Air would finish my bike off a treat!..... time to start saving!
[Reply]
  • + 3
 Early April Fools joke people
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Thats ridiculous... EVERYBODY SHOULD BE ABLE TO BUY IT. Why tell us about it if we cant buy it?
  • + 5
 Just to show us how awesome they think they are. But i guess they just want us to go buy Fox or DVO Wink
  • + 2
 DEVO NIGGA
[Reply]
  • + 0
 Man you guys couldn't see sarcasm if it ran you over. They gave you the msrp of the new vivid in the first bit of the info about the shock. This shock will be available to everyone once its out of the prototype stages.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 So what they're saying is if you're a pro, you're not buying one but getting it for free-I don't know many pros that pay for anything...
[Reply]
  • + 1
 It's kinda cool that only racers can get their hands on this. It's also cool to think that only 3% of people out there are pushing the limits of their bikes.
  • + 3
 I would like to know how they came up with the 97% number??? I think that is not smart to sell it to everyone. That is why companies hire marketers/promoters; engineers dont know how to do that stuff..... or is it part of their marketing?
  • + 3
 hah yeah... surprise in 3 months... " now available for everyone "
[Reply]
  • + 2
 I went through 3 rock shox shocks last year and every time it was the same problem
[Reply]
  • + 1
 sooooooooo, now us mere mortals can buy one? nice marketing scheme RS :rolleyes:
[Reply]
  • + 0
 lost respect for all fox racing components. how dare you!! maby ur trailer getting stollen a wile back was karma for your future f*ck ups. any one want my dhx 4?
  • + 1
 Yesss i do
[Reply]
  • + 1
 When are we going to be able to just bolt components onto shocks and no worry about frames anymore .
[Reply]
  • + 2
 must hack uci masterlist. I want this shock!
[Reply]
  • + 2
 That makes me want to switch from Fox. Hmmm?
  • + 8
 Fox was always better anyways.
  • + 8
 i prefer fox's entry level van to rockshox's vivid r2c, never mind the rc4 the fox's are way more reliable too, too bad most of us will never know if rockshox has managed to catch up :/
  • + 2
 I agree with alazamanza, my r2c vivid coil needed servicing every month. On the other hand, my fox rc4 was still buttery after a whole season. Never mind making the shock plush, just make the oil stay in it!
  • + 1
 the van is the same as the rc4 anywayeither than the kashima all the adjustments are inside the shock and you have to use more tools to do it
[Reply]
  • + 1
 so if i get this right, the guys who designed this aren't going to be good enough to ride it...moooo hahaha
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Well i think i might have to try out the new coil on my 222 as last rockshox rear i had was on my giant ac team
  • + 2
 I think you need a new bike first buddy.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 2014 stuff alredy? its not even summer here yet
  • + 1
 Money cars and trucks prob already out with the 2014-16s
[Reply]
  • + 1
 perhaps i'll never own one but still like to try one out and see what i'm missing....
[Reply]
  • + 1
 sounds like my new vivid air 2013 is trash! please tell me that it's not..........
  • + 2
 dude just drive and enjoy
[Reply]
  • + 1
 If I'm paying why does it matter if I can or cannot use it to its full potential!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 but then...why would we buy this if we don't need it??? I don't even care...
[Reply]
  • + 3
 Looks like a session.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Is the Coil version from last year at all comparable to this year or is it better just to jump on the new one???
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Stuff like this is exactly why Im doing engineering Smile
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Thanks, now I don't need a reason for not buying RockShox...Fox is available to all and much better than RS anyway!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I doesn't matter to me cuz I don't have anywhere to ride my downhill bike and besides, even when I do, I suck at it!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 How lame.... just rub it in our faces....heres the new shock you will NEVER have!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Negative forces inside the damper means you can run your rebound faster too without harsh top out. Double plus good
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Successful Troll ( by Rock Shox ) Is successful Smile
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Cant have DLC coating and now this.. 2nd line for ordinary customer.. Vivid interactive FTW! LOL
  • + 2
 You probably wouldn't want DLC anyway as it's been proved to have a short life span as a stanchion coating
[Reply]
  • + 1
 how I get on the "uci pro list " , because I want this shock so badly ?! Big Grin
[Reply]
  • + 2
 One more thing to cross off the birthday gift list.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Good thing the Reverb is still available to us peasants.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Mr. Slugworthe is looking for a new vivid, along with an everlasting gob stopper !!
[Reply]
  • + 2
 so its going to be a grate year for other brands
[Reply]
  • + 1
 when he said I couldn't have one, I just sat there trying not to scream F*CK YOU!!!!!!
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Hell with that shock, I want that AVID hat.....
[Reply]
  • + 1
 mai asteptati sa vor fabrica in CHINA si se vor vinde tuturor! Smile )))) ha ha ha
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I'll take one of each, thank you...
[Reply]
  • + 1
 we'll see how many Pro UCI riders bike get JACKED this season.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 This is stupid pros should start selling these shocks on ebay
[Reply]
  • + 1
 CCDB air is better anyway
[Reply]
  • + 1
 The air is defiantly finding its way to my bike!
[Reply]
  • + 2
 guess its time to pro up
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I'll stick with Fox, but due to money I have to run a domain fork for now.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 you guys are posers...I already got mine!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 what a bunch of BS...Great work RS!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Mike Levy has the best job ever.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 so basically theyr saying this shit is too dope for you, too bad sucka!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Dosent Mike Levy look as pleased as punch!
[Reply]
  • + 0
 the way i cant have the new vivid? what is this on my bike then? www.pinkbike.com/photo/9028290
  • + 3
 That's not the same one. The adjustments nobs aren't at the same place and it dosent have the "counter measure" technology.
  • + 2
 Yeah, you got second rate crap for suckers. No good stuff for you. Ride, and enjoy the fact that Rock Shox thinks you are not worthy.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Fox for the win
[Reply]
  • + 2
 COCK TEASE!
  • + 3
 agreed, wait till the new boxxer comes out and it goes the same way. I have rockshox on all my bikes, but this year, I am going X-fusion or Fox.
  • + 1
 hahahahha indeeed
[Reply]
  • - 1
 Hmmmmm, wonder if you need to be a dh pro to get one, because I know a few guys in xc.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Pretty good job!
[Reply]
Below threshold threads are hidden

Post a Comment



Copyright © 2000 - 2014. Pinkbike.com. All rights reserved.
dv88 0.084051
Mobile Version of Website