Giant USA released its 2014 bike lineup to the press and it comes as no surprise that mid-sized wheels play a large role in the brand's upper level mountain bike range. We were surprised, however, to discover that Giant will up-size all of its most important 26 inch all-mountain and dual-suspension trailbikes to 27.5 inch wheels, as well as down-size its 29er XC-racing hardtails and short-travel dual-suspension bikes to 27.5 as well. Giant will still offer its key 29er XC racing bikes next season and the Reign-X and Glory will be 26-inch only - for now - but the writing is definitely on the wall at Giant USA. Many mid-size-wheel naysayers insist that 27.5-inch wheels are an industry-driven fad being pushed upon customers who never asked for it. After two years in the mainstream, though, the growth of 650B points at an entirely different scenario. While there is significant push-back from existing mountain bike owners, new-bike customers seem perfectly happy to buy in to 650B. Traditionally, cyclists readily accept significant, but incremental improvements in drivetrains and frame design. Rather than inciting a revolution, apparently, the 650B wheel is being accepted similarly - as a worthwhile performance enhancement to the basic mountain bike. I believe that Giant USA has done its homework on this one and could be poised to take a leadership role among North America's 'Big Three' brands. - RC
Does This Spell the End of 26-inch Wheels For Giant?Pinkbike asked Giant USA's Global Product Marketing Manager Andrew Juskaitis a few questions about the switch to 27.5-inch wheels:
Is Giant USA eliminating 29 and 26-inch wheels from its XC, Trail and AM models for 2104?· No, not entirely for 2014. Reign X and Glory remain 26 inch for 2014 and Anthem X and Trance X will still be offered in 29-inch. But that story will change in the future….
So, there are no 29er XC racing bikes for 2014?· Anthem X 29er, XtC Advanced 29er and XtC Composite 29er will still be offered.
Will Giant follow this path throughout its DH range next year?· Can’t answer that question directly, but you can imagine that if we believe so strongly in 27.5 for the majority of our range in 2014, you can guess what might happen in our future…
Can we expect to see 29 and 26-inch wheels eventually disappear in Giant's consumer-priced bikes in the near future?· 26-inch for sure, but 29-inch will be dependent on market feedback. That said, if the market progresses the way we believe it will, 29-inch will be phased out in approximately two years....again, totally dependent on market feedback.
Press Release:GIANT 27.5: RIDE WITHOUT LIMITS.The off-road world now has three wheel sizes from which to choose. Through extensive research and ride testing, Giant has
thoroughly analyzed how each size performs under different riding styles and in varying conditions. Our findings show that
mountain bikes with 27.5-inch wheels deliver superior performance without the compromises of 26 or 29-inch-wheel bikes.
So to create the best off-road riding experience, Giant has fully committed its 2014 lineup to this superior technology.
Why 27.5?There is a common misconception that the performance of 27.5 technology sits squarely in the middle between 26 and 29. But
as our data reveals, 27.5 actually displays some of the best characteristics of 26 and 29—and it never measures out exactly in
the middle.
When it comes to weight, 27.5 performs more like 26—it’s light and agile. And for efficiency and control, it outperforms 29.
Rather than introduce a single 27.5 model, as some of our competitors have, Giant is rolling out entirely new designs and
engineering solutions to maximize the performance advantages of 27.5-inch wheels. Here’s why:
27.5 TECHNOLOGY: Three reasons to believeLighter Weight• 27.5-inch wheels are only five percent heavier than 26-inch. By comparison, 29-inch wheels are 11 percent heavier than
26-inch.
• Overall weights of 27.5 bikes also trend closer to 26 than heavier 29 versions of the same series.
More Efficient• 27.5 wheels accelerate much like 26, outperforming the more sluggish feel of 29-inch wheels.
• 27.5 wheels roll over obstacles with much more control than 26. That translates into more efficient cornering,
acceleration and braking capabilities.
Better Control• The larger the diameter of a wheel, the greater the contact patch of the tire. A larger contact patch results in better
traction—which improves acceleration, deceleration and cornering. 27.5 wheels provide a contact patch that is similar
to 29-inch wheels.
• The larger the wheel, the larger the frame dimensions must be—and that leads to unwanted flex. A flexing frame
causes sloppy handling and slower acceleration under heavy power. A 27.5 frame flexes less than a 29 frame,
resulting in better control.
1. WeightEvery rider experiences two types of weight affecting their ride: overall bike weight and rotational wheel weight. Here’s a
closer look at these two forces and how different wheel sizes alter the dynamics of your ride:
Overall Bike Weight Compare the weights of identically equipped bikes with different wheel sizes and you’ll see substantial weight differences. As
expected, the 26-inch-wheel bike is somewhat lighter than the 27.5, and substantially lighter than the 29 (up to two pounds of
overall bike weight savings from 29 to 27.5). Every gram saved helps you ride faster.
Wheel/Tire WeightThe overall weight of a 27.5 wheelset (wheel, tire and inner tube) is only 5% greater than that of an identically built 26-inch
wheelset. Compare this to the 12% increase of a 29-inch wheelset and you can see how a seemingly small increase in
diameter results in substantial weight gain—and poorer performance when climbing or accelerating.
2. EfficiencyRoll-overIncreased wheel diameter decreases the angle of attack (the angle in which a round object intersects a square object). This
is a good thing. A 29-inch wheel rolls over a 6-centimeter square-edge obstacle 14% more efficiently than a 26-inch wheel
does. In comparison, a 27.5-inch wheel rolls over the same obstacle 9.8% more efficiently than a 26-inch wheel does.
Another way to analyze angle of attack is the degree of impact—where 26-inch equals X degree, 27.5 equals X-4 degrees
and 29 equals X-6 degrees. Again, a shallower angle is better—so 29-inch takes the win, with 27.5 exhibiting nearly the same
performance but without the weight penalty.
Frame StiffnessLateral (side-to-side) frame stiffness can be affected by wheel size. To accommodate larger wheels, frame dimensions must
be elongated. Therefore, a size medium 29-inch wheel frame has more lateral flex (bottom bracket and headtube) than a size
medium 27.5- or 26-inch wheel frameset. Additional flex compromises handling under heavy pedaling or sharp cornering.
3. ControlFrame GeometryThe larger the wheel, the more difficult it is to optimize geometry, especially on smaller frames. As the frame size decreases,
head tube heights become higher (in relation to saddle height). On 26 or 27.5-inch frames, it’s less of a problem, but geometry
limitations can affect smaller 29-inch-wheel frames.
TractionThe larger the diameter of a wheel, the greater the contact patch of the tire. A larger contact patch results in better traction,
which leads to improved acceleration, deceleration and cornering. As you can see below, a 27.5-inch wheel has a similar
contact patch to the 29.
The Back-Story About Giant's 27.5 RangeGiant, the world leader in cycling technology, is revolutionizing its 2014 off-road lineup with a full range of new bikes featuring 27.5-inch wheel technology. Some of Giant’s most recognizable and successful off-road models—including XtC, Anthem, and Trance—will now include 27.5 choices in both composite and aluminum frame options.
For 2014, a total of seven new men’s series and 28 global models feature 27.5 wheel technology, which Giant has been developing for the past two years. Several prototype Giant 27.5 bikes have already been ridden to major race wins in pro XC and enduro competition.
“The diversity and range of our new collection of 27.5 bikes shows how strongly we believe in this new technology,” said Kevin Dana, Giant Global Off-Road Category Manager. “That belief is founded on a lot of internal research and testing. We worked with a wide variety of riders—and from our World Cup XC pros to our enduro riders, all of them feel strongly that the end result is improved performance.”
Research and ride testing in different off-road racing disciplines, and in a variety of terrain, showed that the 27.5 wheel size delivers significant performance advantages in three key areas: weight, efficiency and control. Bikes with 27.5-inch wheels displayed some of the best characteristics of 26 and 29-inch wheels—but without the compromises associated with each.
Truly capitalizing on the advantages of 27.5 required a deep commitment to engineering and development. Giant’s team of engineers, product developers and athletes looked at each new model individually, dialing in the frame features and geometry to optimize the new wheel size for particular types of terrain and performance goals.
The end result is a full line of purpose-built 27.5 performance bikes for all different types of off-road riding. From the XC World Cup-proven XtC Advanced 27.5 hardtail to the trail and enduro focused Trance Advanced 27.5, each series has undergone extensive development from the ground up.
For elite-level Giant XC pros like Swedish national champion Emil Lindgren, the lighter weight and quicker acceleration offer a huge advantage.
| When you're racing cross-country, you're pushing the limits. The heart rate is maxed and you want a bike that responds and makes the effort feel a little easier. Going from a 26 to a 29, there's a big difference in the way the bike rides. But with 27.5, it's the perfect balance of quickness and acceleration of a 26, with the traction and stability of a 29er. - Emil Lindgren |
To meet the needs of racers like Lindgren and teammate Michiel van der Heijden, who recently won the Dutch XC Championships aboard a prototype 27.5 hardtail, Giant developed 27.5 versions of its XtC platform in both Advanced-grade composite (XtC Advanced 27.5) and ALUXX SL aluminum (XtC 27.5).
For technical XC terrain, Giant developed 27.5 versions of its legendary Anthem platform, available in both Advanced-grade composite (Anthem Advanced 27.5) and ALUXX SL aluminum (Anthem 27.5) frame options featuring Maestro Suspension with 4 inches of travel. Giant Factory Off-Road rider Adam Craig played a major role in the bike’s development, and rode his prototype Anthem Advanced 27.5 to a win at an Oregon Enduro Series event earlier this summer.
| For cross-country racing, the 27.5 offers a very clear advantage. It's not just about how fast a bike rolls, but how fast it can be in real racing scenarios, and that involves accelerating, braking, climbing, a lot of low-speed stuff. A bike that's a little more nimble and quick is ultimately an advantage. - Adam Craig |
For more aggressive trail and enduro riding—the type that Australian enduro racer Josh Carlson has been racing with his prototype Trance Advanced 27.5, which features 5.5 inches of Maestro rear suspension technology—the added control and stability makes a huge difference. The Trance platform is also available with the Advanced-grade composite frame (Trance Advanced 27.5) or ALUXX SL aluminum (Trance 27.5). Both the Trance Advanced 27.5 and Trance 27.5 also come in an “SX” model for more aggressive, gravity-oriented riding.
For 2014, Giant is offering the following off-road series with 27.5 technology: XtC Advanced 27.5 (Advanced-grade composite hardtail XC)
XtC 27.5 (ALUXX SL aluminum hardtail XC)
Anthem Advanced 27.5 (Advanced-grade composite full-suspension XC)
Anthem 27.5 (ALUXX SL aluminum full-suspension XC)
Trance Advanced 27.5 (Advanced-grade composite full-suspension trail and enduro)
Trance 27.5 (ALUXX SL aluminum full-suspension trail and enduro)
Talon 27.5 (ALUXX aluminum hardtail XC)
2014 Giant 27.5 off-road bikes will be available through Giant retailers later this summer.
Bring more options, but don't kill the ones that people love.
Nearly every single mountain biking product has been designed to make the terrain easier to ride , I just dont get why people get so upset over this wheel size but not when Fox brings out super slippery and plush forks to make the trails easier ?
Though I do see your point regarding them forcing the market , and I do agree that 26 is better for DH IMO and I have no plans to run anything but 26".
Why don't you ride 24" wheels? Lighter, stiffer and you even can pop of even smaller roots and rocks.
HOW THE HELL DO YOU GET MARKET FEEDBACK IN RESPONSE TO WHEEL SIZE WHEN YOU PREDOMINATELY PRODUCE 650B AND PUSH THE SALES OF 650B. What look at specialized or trek sales i dont think so.
Good on you GIANT guess the bike i buy in 2015 won't be one of yours. Keep 29ers for xc till i stop riding!!!
DannyJB, most of the people on Pinkbike run longer travel bikes which is why most prefer 26"- have a look at the polls, BUT most riders are riding trails, not lifted runs (it simply is extremely popular style on this website) The Glory is still 26", and one day a WC DH race is going to be won on a 27.5" bike - and many people will be happy to buy in. Remember not too long ago many people thought air would never replace springs for DH? Now many are salivating over air forks that weren't before.
The 29ers were first utilized primarily by larger than 6' males which is who benefits the most because a 29" wheel scales a L or XL size frame better.
I also own a bike shop and sell all 3 wheelsizes so I'm not biased to any of them but assess how people ride and recommend what suits them. I stock Giant as one of my main brands and to see that 26" is defo going to be fazed out is a bit dissapointing.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zs60CqBYnvg
WTF does anyone talk about "progression" & bigger wheel sizes in the same sentence for? None of this has anything to do with "progress". If it did, they would've made bigger wheels to roll over bumps long before they ever made suspension. A bigger wheel size is NOT innovative. You can't re-invent the wheel & you pretty much can't re-invent the bicycle anymore to keep selling "new" to all the dumb trendies. So we get shit like these stupid wheels, & 15mm axles. f*ckin' regress is what it is. Ya word?
Enjoy.
www.pinkbike.com/photo/9895427
@Brakesnotincluded. I have lots of hard data. I've been Stravaing my rides for some time now, on trails I've been riding over and over for many years. On my local Super D-like descents, I am faster on the 29er, and on the XC loops, much faster. Yesterday I came fourth and I was 12 seconds behind the winner over 16 minutes of Enduro-ish descents. I would have preferred to have come first and I certainly am no Pro - just a washed up old Master. In about a week I will have my Anthem 27.5 and the first thing I will do will be to go out and see which wheel size is faster. People say they like 26" because they are more fun, I find going fast and doing well in races fun. Gimme the fastest bike, I don't care about the wheel size. Gotta collect the data before I form an opinion.
@helibike - I love the graphic!!!! I amy not agree with it, but at least it is funny.
I am sold - the Trance looks lovely!
Gotta give credit when credit is due.
What do you think the odds are that tangaroo is still riding 26"?
One thing I've promised myself in life as I get older...don't age like those old complaining folks that are always reminding us that things were better in the old bygone days and that the new generation has lost the plot I plan to stay young at mind and keep growing. Why do people hate progression in nature and life. It's who we are as humans. Things will be fine tuned and will change and will progress and yes there will be complaints along the way, but it's for our own good in the long run. Like my recently purchased and yes expensive XX1. I love it's simplicity, feels like a single speed and silently goes about its business without any hiccups. And thanks to the first consumers out there paying stupid prices like I did the costings will come down and benefit all. Thanks also to the masses that bought into a large % of the 29er hype. Let them be the crash test dummies.
Let's try stay open minded about wider bars, thicker diameters bars, drop post, short stems, composite materials, electronic suspension, more suspension and a alternative wheel size that will make ripping up the trails a even bigger and awesome experience
BTW Scott bike did extensive real world testing like Giant before bringing their 650b bikes to market as did Rocky Mountain, now Trek and others. There is a place for all 3 wheel sizes but 650b covers a wider all around sweet spot than 26 or 29. 26 will has the smallest sweet spot range and hence why it's sales are going down the tubes (isn't it funny how Trek dumped their 26 Fuel, Remedy and Slash also?????). 26 is certainly a great size to build skills on before moving up in wheel size (especially to a 29'er) which can mask deficiencies in ability. There will be plenty of companies around to keep the 26 guys happy but form a manufactures position most on this forum just don't get it at all as they aren't the one trying to sell the products or the dealers who now might have to carry 3 wheel sizes. Joe mtn. bike customer (and this is who it's really about) comes into a shop to buy a mtn bike and lets say identical 26 and 650b bikes are available to purchase and he gets the rundown on each and it's pros and cons and a test ride on each. I'll guarantee you almost all will spring for the 650b bike. 26 will live as a smaller niche while 650b and 29 will dominate. I'm confident the feedback to Giant will be to continue producing/developing the 29'er platform as it works well in many conditions. I seriously don't believe they will abandon that segment despite their comments.
And if you take a brief look at the history of design of anything, you might want to rap those words: everything you do's already been done. People on both sides of the argument believe the world will change because someone increased a bicycle wheel diameter by an inch. Nothing will change apart from second hand market. It's neither natural nor evolution. In objective reality it is just another event and I am more than sure that die hard 26ers won't notice the difference if they had to buy a 650b bike if their old one cracked. Just as new owners of 650b that bought it before the wave came, can only wank about the superiority of their recent purchase. BB went down half of an inch and this is what you will feel, the rest is natural revolving bullcrap.
Meanwhile I will enjoy a 26" carbon blur TRc that I bought for a half price, cheaper than alu Nomad 5 years ago, because Rob went bananas and throws all 26" stock overboard, panicking that extra cargo will stop him from reaching the 27.5 gold island before the dawn... Otherwise I would not be able to afford it. So It's all good guys, trust me. Especially for die hard 26ers
You know... Elections are won by winning votes of swinger voters, people who are not sure or just don't give a damn, not by licking arses of die hard followers, and nobody waists time repenting the opposition. And conspiracy theories only help you at the throne taking attention of yhe main game. Public opinion man! But some big fkrs lost their job because of whistle blowers I will enjoy watching it unfold, it's interesting times ahead.
There are also so many more disciplines now with so many more people riding than ever before and the answer to the wheel size debate is 'what the f*ck do you feel suits your type of riding best'. If your brand doesn't offer it anymore then well done to the next guy who does. To the purist gravity riders I can understand the passion and the bullshit that goes along with wheel size but at the end if the day if a rider can get down the mountain faster, hucking everything on a HT 29er well then that's the bike for them!
"Superior technology"... it's just a bigger wheel!!
Every bike company is trying to convince us that they were saying bullshits a few years ago when they were praising the 29 wheels...We believe you! Apareently in two years time, in the name of the profit, bike companies will list the benefits of the square wheel.
I do not mind spending more energy overall to retain the sharp handling and playfulness of a 26er when things get fun (at least in my eyes). Meanwhile, some people might prefere an overall easier ride at the price of slowing down when things get serious. Different strokes for different folks.
Giant has always been known to make slightly more affordable bikes and I feel they're realizing that you cannot do that by catering to all wheel sizes across many platforms. Selling a wheelsize as "the one" seems disconnected from reality though, wether it be 26ers, 650b or 29ers.
--I'M NOT GOING TO THROW AWAY THE REST OF MY KIT TO BUY YOUR NEW BIKES... THE ONE WHO MAKES 26" IS SUPPORTING MY INVESTMENT IN THE SPORT THUS FAR AND THEY WILL GET MY MONEY!
Every bike, Every website all we hear lately is "650B, 27.5' -Knock it the hell off!
-You want to make a new bike with a new wheel size, great I'm sure some will buy it and love it but eliminating other wheel sizes is ridiculous. Trying to leverage consumers into having to buy the new bikes is ridiculous.
Somebody will continue to make the 26" and they will get my money.
Nowadays, I don't Frankenstein parts from one bike to the next. I just sell the old one complete and buy a new one. Problems solved.
I have wheel spares with 126mm rear bolt on axles that use freewheels. I don't use them, but I can still get parts for them and keep them working for the kids to use at the cabin. I have a box with 8 speed/cable brake combo shifters. I can still get new ones if needed. I have 1" steerer forks with threaded headsets. None of these components work on my current bikes. I have square taper/isis/holowtech/bb30 spares. I have a box full of cantilever and v-brakes. They don't fit on my frames either, My wheels without disk mounts won't work on my frames. (The last frame I bought was 2010. I had a knee surgery and missed a full season, so my bikes will likely be good for another 2-3 years before I will need to replace them.)
As I said, when your current frame wears out, and if its aluminum, 5 years is about the fatigue life of an aluminum frame, it will be time to upgrade. I don't have many 5 year old hard use rims I would trust, other than on a commuter, so those would need replacing as well. I really don't see the problem.
If manufacturers continue to decide to cut out the 26" from their line up (& to the dismay of the public) then they are basically rendering any related components useless.
So if the public is saying that they DON'T want to give up their 26" wheels then the only reason the manufacturers are switching is to propagate an unwanted forced spending trend, is it not?
It's NOT supply & demand nor consumer spending metrics that are telling them to go this way because 90% of the public seems to like what they have.
Forcing a change to propagate forced spending well that all smells like B'ullsh't to me!
If it was for any other reason then they would have kept a small contingent of 27.5 bikes on their line up and still supported the consumers investment in the 26" standard. But that's NOT what people feel is happening...
They are saying "HEY WE WILL MAKE YOU HAVE TO BUY THIS EVENTUALLY BY DISCONTINUING WHAT YOU HAVE OVERNIGHT!"
Keep them? I was riding a road bike with 27" wheels until 6 months ago when I got knocked off and the wheels got squashed. You could still get spares then, but I upgraded to 700c due to tyre choices and parts availability. It's been 30 years since the last 27" bikes were sold.
From my experience when obstacles get big enough, that attack angle thing becomes irrelevant as it is the suspension that takes the edge of the hit. It becomes necessary not to roll over the obstacle at better attack angle but to take the wheel out of the way. For gross gravel and minor roots that might be the case but for baby heads up we are talking only about the increased grip due to larger tyre contact patch and your favourite: rich in stability BB drop. Then 29ers suffer from slower handling and evidently decreased acceleration (which, off course, is not always needed - hint: London Olympics course). The only way to get around that acceleration is carbon rims, and those will never be available to the masses. Even LB rims are above pain threshold. I sold my 29er because I got minimal if any gain in average speeds and evident decrease in handling and subjective fun level. I really can't get around what kind of idiot one had to be to get that marketing slogan: 29er ht rides like 100mm 26 full susser.
I see a great future for 29ers in long distance riding, some more advanced versions of touring. Also as bike for really high people, but since 650b are here for good can we say that 29ers in S are daft?
1.Giant added a ton of 27.5" bikes for 2014.(27.5" fits small-medium size riders much better than 29". Really great for women too!) I want an Anthem 27.5".
2.Giant still has a ton of 29" bikes(Talon, Revel, XTC, Trance, Anthem...) I love my Trance 29er! I will keep it....
3.Almost no large company offers 26" because they don't sell! Giant still has 26" bikes too(STP, Revel, Reign X, Glory...) I still own a STP 26"!
That seems like alot of choices to me!?
Don't panic. This is just marketing.
And have you ever wondered why they never actually quote a figure about the energy required to accelerate the wheels? Well try this at home... Lift up the front of your bike and with the wheel stationary, give it a flick with your hand (the wheel that is!) You can accelerate a wheel from 0 to 20kph with such little energy, the figure doesn't even register. Its just hype.
Go ride.
1) 26" bikes and their geometry has been refined to damn near perfection FOR THAT WHEEL SIZE. Manufacturers see an idealized wheel diameter as a new "format" upon which to improve, and it will continue to progress as time goes on.
2) 26" specific components are going to plummet in price, so if one is so committed to the 26er, stock up!!!
I'm just fine with my 26- only stable of DH, DJ, Trail, and townie bikes. Each one feels perfect. My biggest concern is legacy parts, but let's be realistic. Hubs are hubs, spokes are spokes, and the last 26" rims to go are the burly ones I'll want anyway, so really it's not going anywhere. Besides, nothing in my stable is more than 2.5 years old, and I'll probably be on 650b sometime around 2015-2016. I'm sure the 650b bikes will have seriously dialed geo by then.
I'm going to miss my 400-415mm chainstays though. I'm sure of it.
So who will invest in a troll-owned company? I think I am starting one... Waki-bikes. By trolls for riders - 26 FTW
BTW: wonderful graphic-artwork-driven "science" Giant eheheh... People will eat it like Ben&Jerry.
Then I'd make a 650B clunker with thumb shifters and call it Deeeight
We can start with making a PB poll: "who is the most annoying PB user?"
I suppose that there are some benefits, but there are also some draw backs that they're not telling you and really should.
C'mon nobody wants to buy a carbon bike with an aluminum rear triangle.
Oh wait, let me guess: it's the best of both worlds.
>does. In comparison, a 27.5-inch wheel rolls over the same obstacle 9.8% more efficiently than a 26-inch wheel does.
What a bunch of crap. The dependency of efficiency on wheel size is strongly linear.
If "29-inch wheel rolls over a 6-centimeter square-edge obstacle 14% more efficiently", then 650b will have only 5.6% increase in efficiency. Do your math better, Giant.
Who the f*ck made those rigged calculations?
Given wheel sizes: 673mm for 26", 698mm for 650b and 736mm for 29".
And we have a 3 inch square edged obstacle. Angles of attack:
26" - 13.76°
650 - 13.51°
29" - 13.15°
2 inch square edged obstacle? Not a problem:
26" - 11.20°
650 - 11.00°
29" - 10.71°
Anyone sees that 650b is closer to 29"? Not me.
Now to contact patch. Anyone knows what is the circumference of a circle? It's formula is as simple as it can be: π*d, where d is diameter and π is constant 3.1415...
Wheel circumferences:
26" - 2114 mm
650 - 2193 mm = 3.5% bigger than 26"
29" - 2312 mm = 9% bigger than 26"
And do you know what is contact patch? It's just a fixed fraction of total wheel circumference. Anyone knows why in Giant's poster 650b is suddenly closer to 29" in contact patch? I'll tell you what - it's not about physics or math. It's about company that is interested in selling new standard. Period.
But they have a WorldCup winner on 650b wheels and a good-looking (but crippled) arguments, so we are now the spectators of the eclipse of 26" trail bike. Not because 26" were worse, just because it was decided that 26" stuff (wheels, forks, tires) is obsolete.
Pressure is defined as force per unit area, i.e.: P=F/A.
In the case of a bicycle wheel, pressure relates to the air pressure in the tyre, force relates to the load on the tyre and area relates to the contact patch used to support the load.
By making Area the subject of the formula, we get A=F/P.
Please note the importance of rim radius, tyre width and rim width and all of the other things that you've ever been told create a bigger contact patch.
That and raging on web forums makes f*ck all difference to a companies bottom line, and therefore the bikes they are going to release next year. you want to make a difference, vote with your money! (I vote 9er for short travel, undecided for long travel)
Does the trance have ISCG tabs yet?....
I highly doubt Giant going to 27.5 inch wheels will bankrupt them, I would expect that a large proportion of revenue comes from the sale of complete bikes, so inherently if someone buys a complete bike with 26 inch, or 27.5 inch wheels it matters not, and frankly most people buying a complete bike won't be to bothered (best spec for the money plays a large part and Giant do very well at that). Infact if the salesmen do their jobs the bikes having 27.5 actaully becomes a selling point, something different to the sea of 26 and 29 inch bikes avaliable.
It's interesting that some manufacturers are shunning 27.5 completely, whilst others are embracing it as the mainstay for their lineup.....
So Giant, I might be a minority in the bike world, but please do not stop making your 29er trail and race bikes.
causes sloppy handling and slower acceleration under heavy power. A 27.5 frame flexes less than a 29 frame,
resulting in better control" but still not like a 26"
I would say that Giant did a great job on the Trance 29er. We can line em up and race...then you tell me the geo is holding me back. !
I plan on buying a 27.5 Anthem to race XC on next year. I will keep the Trance 29 for trail riding and SuperD/Enduro.
Also if t makes that much difference why are they trying to make smaller volume 27.5 tyres so that they match high volume 26" tyres?. if bigger wheels are so much better why arent dirt bikes following this trend ? with the supposed advantages it gives, DH should be the one leading this but its not, why ? because its total pish.
im not saying its a marketing scam for a laugh, it is a marketing scam because 26" cant really be tweaked (exploited with new tech except carbon) any more and people arent forking (excuse the pun) out on new kit every year as much as they were. 26" works end of. if you feel the need to splash silly money to gain an extra second on the trail and feel more "confident" then thats fine but i dont think the industry should be hammering the people that have already invested a lot of money in kit because a few people with too much money think that 1.5" bigger rims are going to make them a better rider.
Don't go there with the dirt bike stuff either. I've got close to 40 years of off road riding and racing on that side of things how about you? They have settled on the 21 front and either 18 or 19 rear with the 19 used mostly in MX. 23" was tried at one point and didn't work out. And guess what my friend, a 21" dirt bike wheel with tire works out to 27.5"-28" depending on tire size....just like a 650b wheel. Give it a fair chance and you might actually like it.
No i havent spent much time on 27.5" bikes, do i want to shell out a shed load of money to try one ? no. and the people i have seen out there on them arent exactly flying past me on the trails so i dont see it as a high ranking upgrade like moving to a fork with better damping or a dropper post. Im sure in a few years i'll have no choice but to move to it but in the mean time im gonna have to put up with crap tyre/fork choice all because a bunch of people think its gonna make them faster/better riders.
I think this sums it up nicely:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbVKWCpNFhY
No one is forcing you guy's to go buy 650b and no one is telling you it's gonna make you some fantastic rider. What it does is hit a broader sweet spot than 26" or 29" and will work more comfortably and more easily for more people and that = sales and that's what the manufacturers are ALL looking at. 26" will be around for awhile but you may not find it from the big players anymore and rest assured, despite what they say publicly, Specialized will have a 650b bike announced or in production within a years time. Heck, most of the Spec. dealers around where I live only stock 29'ers now or very low end 26'er for price conscience folks. I also don't believe Giant will discontinue 29'er production/development despite what they might be saying and after they listen to riders and dealer feedback over the next year. 29'ers just sell to well for them to take a pass on it. With 650b's strong presence now 26" bikes are gonna be the slow sellers (except to devoted 26" diehards and/or an uneducated buyer) and stagnant inventory for allot of dealers. Is what it is.
Its not choice thats being added to the market, these companies know theyre gonna have to push people off 26" bikes to keep the revenue coming in at current levels. 26" are so dialled people keep them for too long, there's no built in redundancy so they have to create it by hyping stuff up. I have no problem with 650b being another option and if it puts a grin on your face then stick to it, just dont make my hard earned bikes obsolete just because some marketing hack threw some twisted percentages on a webby to make a fast buck from people who dont know better than to trust whatever the guy at the bike shop says.
as a side note:
contact patch can be increased slightly by dropping pressures, using wider rims and higher volume tyres. rolling over stuff can be made easier if you lower pressures so the tyre actually tracks the ground rather than bouncing off small obstacles (yes this will make it harder to ride but man up). you can go faster by pushing yourself harder or changing gear ratios. The faster you go the less you notice the little bumps. all this is free and tuneable on existing tech, same as years ago when we werent able to dial in rebound on some cheap forks we just put heavier oil in.
"make riding "gnarly" trails easy"
Its a shame the 26" wheel is going to go but that's progress. As will be the demise of 29ers
eh guess giant= snobb marketing and doesnt wanna offer more choices
And a rip off of DW? Do you even work in the industry, or do you read one sentence out of and article and comment blindly on it?
Get the facts first...
However, they are a bicycle sales company too....of course they are in business to sell more bikes. Right now (2014) they are giving everyone lots of choices! More 27.5" choices than any other bike company.
Doesn't that go against the Giant is a great value belief pushed here on PB?
On most local trails difference is not consequential. Much more important to have a well fitted, light bike.
650b will be perfectly fine though. Not as much fit and weight compromise as 29".
I guess we should also cancel all that fatbikes on trails riding I see around. They did not get the memo that it always has to be faster. While we are at it, lets explain to mountain unicycle riders that they are idiots for not going fast enough.
Now turn on your reading comprehension circuits and parse the following phrase again "Faster does not always mean better". Yes, most people enjoy a ride without paying attention to a minuscule possible maximum speed penalty. If you think a 5% bigger wheel is key to riding enjoyment, you are delusional. But we already know that.
IE 27.5 accelerates like a slug compared to 26 just not as sluggish as 29 - just ride one
as long as I can get 26" tires F@*k you Giant!
I just recently bought a Trance X 29er 1 from my local Giant store after their big sell on how perfectly suited it is to my riding (XC / Trail). Not having had any opportunity to ride it round trails I took the plunge based on what little I knew.
I was more keen on the idea of 650b but a few months ago it didn't seem like there was going to be this mass exodus to 650b - and even talk about 650b not taking off.
I guess I was a bit hasty (but my previous bike had been stolen and I just wanted to get riding again).
Anyway, I'm just a bit disappointed that their article above seems to rubbish the 29er.... Have they forgotten that they have spent the last couple of years gaining quite a few customers on the grounds that their 29ers are the way forward.
Don't get me wrong... I like change! In fact that Trance might be too good to resist in a year or so... but I can't help feeling slightly disappointed that I've just spent big bucks with them and now they're coming out with this
Well for XC I´m just a fanboy and actually prefer enduro and DH riding BUT FYI 2012 and 2013 XC is dominated by Nino Schurter on a Scott Scale 650B bike so 27.5 I think is good for XC too........
But I was thinking on changing my Glory 2012 next year but I will hold on and wait for the Glory 650B option.
On the flip side I love innovation and embrace it as, in this case, larger wheels, long travel suspension and improved geometry allow you to tackle more difficult terrain, go faster and generally increase the fun factor. Some "improvements" prove not to work so expect to see what works best prevail and generate the most sales.So my point is no one should force their opinion on anyone. We all don't want the same things out of bike riding. It would be great if manufacturers could make something for everyone but, it's a business and they will go with what keeps them in business. For me the 27.5 is in the near future.. I got trails to conquer.. wait.. what's that I hear? Moab is calling... see ya gents.
Whats the point in 1 inch or 3.8% more circumference? The problem is that the bike firms made a rod for their own back. They said 29ers were the thing and they do work but not for DH or some AM but they do for XC and Trail so now they have to support two consumer bases. Giant are trying to make everyone compromise and we ain't having it ! In years to come they will also refine and polish the 29er weight, responsiveness and geo issues out. So I see 26 and 29 will stay and 650b will be a fad.
The larger the diameter of a wheel, the greater the contact patch of the tire. A larger contact patch results in better traction,
which leads to improved acceleration, deceleration and cornering. As you can see below, a 27.5-inch wheel has a similar
contact patch to the 29."
Now this is one big fat lie. I am really sorry about the marketing expert but the area of the contact patch on one tire is only control by the tire pressure. Under the condition that the rider's weight and it is the same and the tire pressure is the same the area of the contact patch in all 3 sizes will be the same it is simple physics.
Unless Giant sales team have invented there own law of physics.. F=P*A F is the riders weight A is area of the contact patch P pressure of the tire.
In our case F is a constant P is a constant so from does 2 conditions in all 3 cases the contact area A of the tire A=F/P it will also remain constant. This is the reason way when you drive on the beach even with really large tires you need to drop the pressure down to 20 psi so you can increase contact Area of the tire.
In our case with the 3 different wheels size what can change only from size to size is only the shape of the area but not the total area witch means in practice that with the same tire pressure and same tire width traction will be the same. The traction will improve only with wide tires running lower tire pressure , but implies on all 3 wheel sizes.
contact patch it's always the same. area = force / pressure, its fisics, if the weight and de air pressure are the same, the contact patch it's similar in all kind of tires.
and the attack angle also is false. a 26" has a 559 rim (22"), a 27,5 as only 1" more, with a 584 rim (23") and a 29er has 1,5 more than the 27,5 making a 622 rim (24,5") an object with 5cms height a 26" has an angle of 17,4º, a 27,5 as a 17,01º and a 29" as one with 16,47, so Giant is inventing what ever it takes to sell what they whon to the people, and it seems that they don't wont to be honest with us and don't care about us, people that love to ride bikes.
Giant will be a midget if they position for 650 only.
Actually I like Giant is going for 27.5, 29er might be faster for XC racing if you can spend as much money as you want to buy a race-ready bike but if you compare a 26 and a 29er bike for, let's say, 1500$ the 29er is just no fun to ride because the wheels are so heavy, no fun up the hill and no fun down the hill. So I think 27.5 will do it's job better then a 29er in this price range.
And when your frame is dead, get a new frame with 27.5. It is really not that much different from 26. Just like tapered fork is not much different form 1-1/8, and we managed to live through that transition just fine.
In short, stop whining, and care about it when buying the new bike. The only possible problem is lower resale value for your current bike. Well, then stop being a gear whore and keep it longer, until it is properly dead.
When I started my adventure with mountain bikes in early '90ties, there was only one definition of a mountain bike - 26inch wheels. Why 26inch ? Because it is the right balance between the large diameter wheel with all its benefits and stiffness. It may be that it is possible to make a larger wheel with better stiffness nowadays, or in the future, as the technology developed, but we should not forget about our history here. Ask Gary Fisher. We owe Him.
It is the battle between the tradition and technology progress. We ought to experiment in order to develop, but we shouldn't forget, about the history. Time will say which wheel size wins, I am sure 95% of us haven't even tried the larger sizes, but the alternative to go back, or stay with 26inch size is more than holy in this case.
Now I am riding along some spots and people tend to pretend they have larger xc 29inch bikes than my giant glory...
There was a war between tradition and progress in Japan some hundreds years ago, and still is, everywhere in the world between traditional customs, religion and casual pop culture. People should be inteligent enough to learn on mistakes, and make conclusions. Reading paper books is worse than audiobooks, typing is better than hand writting, cars are better than horses. Is it really better? How about manicured trails better than the unknown of wild path? How about electric powered car replacing V8? We all need tradidion. This is our identity and if somebody thinks he's gonna make me forget about my mtb tradition of 26inch size, than I am not going to buy any new (larger) bike part to the rest of my life, just like I am not going to quit reading paper books and reving v8.
..and about the diagrams above. They are all right and true, larger wheel is better, just the same like robots are better than humans.
If it is really worth to change, it should be done slowly and reasonably. Let us all try and decide, and let us all have equally developed alternatives.
26 came from availability of what those guys could get there hands on at the time and make last. They didn't do extensive research & development, lab testing and prototyping with rider feedback on the scale that today's manufacturers are doing. If they did, they might well have ended up at a different size just like what we are seeing in the 650b & 29 market now.
MTB's are technology based and have continuously improved over these many years. New & better materials, production methods, design tools have all lead to incremental improvement in performance and capabilities of our bikes. I find it funny how this topic seems to be the final straw when we have all upgraded to suspension, discs, more gears, tubeless tires and countless other improvements prior to this.
Anyone who has ridden for 5 years or more probably has tubs of obsolete parts that were totally amazing in their day, but are nothing more than spares for beaters now. Maybe it's time wheel size gets to join the party with all the other crap we have upgraded.
I don't give a d... how much better they say it is. I am staying with my 26inch wheels just because they are good enough for me. I don't need few percent better. I'd rather train my body. Majority of the pinkbike community is not professional and watching the questionary most of us rides for fun, so why should bother all the time with best bikes available.
I am not a professional rider so 650b or 29er improvements will attract me in remote future, when 26inch will occur not enough for my skills and fitness (but it sounds ridiculous after decades of riding 26inch wheels). The problem is this is not evolution they are offering, it is a total revolution and I just don't see any point in changing something that is good. Better is always the enemy of good.
I am asking where the balance is. The width of the cassette is always the same, so when they will be offering 16 speed cassette what durability will it have to use gears 0.132mm wide. More gears are better, larger wheels are better.. off course they are but untill the guarantee time runs out and then it is time for You Chader09 and all of us to go and buy it once again or change into better. Who needs 16speed cassette. This is all the same. You know what motorbikes are faster! Why don't we all stop offering bicycles and make us all to buy motorbikes. That is just the way I see it.
I'm too tired to think of something clever to say.
In all reality, giant just sealed the fate of the 26" wheel for performance pedalable mountain bikes.
I'm so sorry to see that MTB industry lost its momentum because of marketing departments being so done already.
GIANT tells us what size it will be.
but maybe they can have a choice of 29" or 27.5" for Anthem/XTC/Trance M size and below......
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contact_patch
Many riders know the limits of 26 wheels. Anyone that has ridden a 29r over rugged all mountain trails understands the brilliance of those larger tires. However,
I had no shocks! I was using a Salsa Fargo 29r, what a brilliant experience with drop down handle bars on those rugged trails.
I tried a specialized 29r with 100mm of shock front and back on skittish flat local single track, " horrible" boring, and to hard to push forward. You could not make me buy a 29r with sus! Id use my Reign SX before a sus 29r!
Thus comes the 27.5! and now Im curious! Pleasantly curious! I have a new Santa Cruz Heckler 650b in-mind!
My point: I did not need marketing feedback from the big name companies! I have my own opinions from running several versions of tire size on different slopes. I was my own marketer and engineer assessment manager!
I believe enough equipment is available for the average rider to make up his/her mind on the tire size question!
I believe it is the MBT riders that are shaping the opinions of the marketing segment of bike companies, in-turn creating influenced new products like 650B for the newer customer!
Long Live the Rider!
Im sure Giant did their due diligence and research on the matter and they believe in 650b; Trek and Specialized are going this way too so there got to be some merit behind this change.
Sounds like everyone here knows more than these major manufacturers.
If Giant does eliminate the 26/29 size, then I'll check out the 27.5's. If I like it then, cool... I'll switch next time I buy. If not, then I'll go to another brand. This really isn't that difficult folks. Everyone needs to calm down and ride what you got. Or not. Who cares what Giant does?
I believe that the 29er is killer in super light Hardtail but that in FS the 650B may be the go. I am a spoilt owner of both in 29 (anthem X, Stevens sonora SL). Yes, bought the hype.
The type of trails you can rocket on a hardtail (smooth single track or firetrail) aren't an issue when it comes to the apparent lower acceleration or nimbleness. Because its not super technical and you are maintaining momentum/speed most of the time.
FS bikes where you can smash the rooty/rocky or more twisted trails may be just a bit better on the slightly smaller wheelsize
V8 for firetrail type racing
rally car for rooty single track
?
My old 26 feels small after riding a 29er. Cant get used it anymore.
Just personal opinion
Cheers
PS hate being a suckered sheep though and buying the hype. It sucks to be told Bike A by bike company X is the business then next year bike A is now shit, only bike B is good. If so, they should let me trade my heavily devalued bike to them for a changeover. Then I would not feel so cheated.
Mtb is following what road did many years ago. 26=road bike, 27.5=cyclo cross. 29=womans shopping bike, just add a basket.
We may think we are being new and innovative, but this was all done many many years ago.
High volume 26 tyres offered by the likes of schwalbe have been a stepping stone to a slightly lower volume 27.5.
Stiffness is not everything. How many top manufacturers are moving away from carbon frames as it is too stiff, just like motorbikes did. Try a wheel with single butted spokes then cone with double or triple butted spokes, the double or triple butting just feels so much more compliant and does not tend to come loose as often as the loads on the nipples are so different and better controlled by the butting.
Two years in the mainstream? How so? 650b has been lurking in the shadows for years, just waiting to for 29 to take hold - it is very unlikely to successfully release/enforce TWO wheel standards at once, since 29ers had momentum (no pun), it had to play out first.
And of course NEW-BIKE CUSTOMER are perfectly happy, they don't know the whole story, only the marketing mumbo jumbo. They don't have any sort of context to place the information about 650, just "listen to what I say, I'm a bike sales person"....
Hey, 650b might be the best thing since dropper posts, but I'm skeptical. I don't take this as such a jump in technology, as I take it as a lack of imagination from bike designers. That's right. Seems they've done all that can do with 26. And I wouldn't argue that, but I don't think that means its time to push an entirely new bike standard out (what - pressfit didn't catch on well enough?) /rant.
Here's is a small hint: 26 inch wheel wasn't the optimal size.
just like maestro.. its a flexier version of the dw link and needs an update...
Watch what happens this will turn out like the 4stroke 2 stroke debate by manufactures, those manufactures that threw out the bath water suffered the most during the economic collapse have lost market share and now a company that 10years ago that was a minor player now dominates both the 4 stroke and 2 stoke bike markets and has had year on year growth, it stayed loyal and listened to all its consumer markets, now Orange is the only colour. I won't support any bike, wheel or fork manufactures who will not support 26" don't compare 24" it was an introduced option by one manufacture it was not std that was why it was not accepted other than that Id did not work for general mtb its not even on the same page, if a company will throw out 29ers as well as 26" people should really be worried especially from the largest bike company in the world, where are all those parts and existing products going to go, well in America we know they just dump everything in a field or desert, the throw away nation and society, throw people away so why not bikes huh!
I used to help people buy Giant because they were great bang for buck, def wont be doing that anymore!
I live in the greatest forest in the US, Pisgah....and it is tight as hell. A long trail bike sucks if you want to actually push the bike and the terrain. You can't work the bike, move it around, make it cut on a dime. Heck, you can barely get a 2" around the switchbacks here.
Stupid, stupid marketing ploy.
It is just not that much of a difference to be a problem. Ride it with an open mind.
bizbutch* try a Pivot firebird 650 b and tell me its too sluggish.. the geo is short n playful, only thing i did notice coming from a 29er hardtail is it didnt plow over things like my bike does but it handled the rough stuff with more agility. also wheel sizes dont matter much in terms of weight.. thats why cannondale made a flash 29er that weighed 16 lbs right?
Selling a NEW technology with new start up and design costs and passing those on to the consumer is just greed. Create a new platform, sell it for the same if not more than the previous product. If you buy it, they'll make their money and you'll feel cozy inside because you're on something new and different.
It's unncecessary. What they don't speak about with 27.5 or 29" is never the INCREASE in percentage of the RIDERS BODY WEIGHT. The lighter you are, the greater that increase and the less the benefit of ANYTHING BIGGER OR HEAVIER! A 5% weight increase on a bike might sound minimal until you divide the total weight of the person by the total weight of the bike. Less...and less...and less benefit to the rider.
_26 "
_cadre SR steel
_Reliable equipment and timeless
_No Standards shit
That's it!
Did you take us small guys in your homeland into consideration?
"There are an increasing number of thinly veiled comments appearing from frame manufacturers that would suggest the 26 inch wheel compatible frame may well disappear from the LBS shelves within the next 3 to 5 years.Given the previous decade's massive sales of 26 inch MTB frames and components, the majority of which are still very much ridden and at large, what do you envisage will happen to the relationship between manufacturers and consumers over the next 3 to 5 years?"
Any thoughts welcome.
And please respect those thoughts people should Richard be kind enough to share them with us.
They tell engineers to keep products fractionalized because that makes accountants happy. I embrace all that is new whether to watch it fail or succeed, each are entertaining but for folks with limited resources in remote regions (most mountain bikers) the 650b may be the final nail in the coffin for your local bike shop. Small shops can't afford to keep up as standardization decreases. That's why appliance repair shops are rare now but were very common 20 years ago. The 3 wheel sizes will hit us hardest in the aftermarket where component prices will remain escalated despite increased volume of sales. My 1992 MB-1 was super reliable and cheap to keep running. Ya sure my new bikes are way better but they are not cheap and fail constantly.
Here's the short version:
I do think that most bike makers will phase out 26-inch mountain bikes in the three-year period you mentioned, and I don't believe that it will cause any significant problems for riders. I also maintain that 29ers will maintain a strong presence. I think that 26 will remain strong in freestyle, because that diameter seems to be a magic balance between its ability to sustain inertia for recovery from a trick, while still allowing the rider to overcome that force to initiate one. By the time we realize that there are hardly any 26-inch mountain bikes on the dealer's floor, however, we will be too caught up with the next big thing to give it more than a passing thought. For me, it will mark a more significant moment - the 26-inch wheel and tire were the last major components that I can fit to my vintage Mantis Pro Floater. It will mark the end of an era.
For the whole answer:
www.pinkbike.com/u/richardcunningham/blog/Answer-to-Orientdaves-650B-Question.html
haha