Banshee Legend MKII Review
TESTED
Banshee Legend
MKII
MKII
BY Mike Kazimer
Banshee's Legend MKII frame is intended to be a no-holds-barred downhill race machine, a bike designed with the input from a fleet of hard-charging test riders. Their feedback was used to make decisions about the final production version of the frame, and since its initial release, the Legend has earned its stripes on race tracks and bike parks around the world. Late last season, Banshee and Cane Creek held test sessions at the Whistler Bike Park to determine if the Double Barrel Air rear shock would be a suitable match for the Legend. Testing was successful, and riders can now purchase a DBair equipped Legend MKII frame for $3199. We took our test sled on numerous shuttle runs as well as countless early season laps at Whistler to see how the Legend and the DBair got along.
Banshee Legend MKII Details
• Intended use: downhill
• Rear wheel travel: 203mm / 8"
• 7005 series aluminum frame
• 1.5" head tube
• ISCG-05 chain guide tabs
• Internally ribbed seat and chain stays
• Weight: 39lbs (as tested), 8.59lb (frame, claimed)
• Colors: anodized black, raw, fluorescent yellow
• MSRP: $3199.99 USD (frame only, w/ DBair shock as tested)
 |
 The Legend MKII is designed to be stiff and strong, with a 1.5 inch head tube, 12x150mm thru-axle and internally braced seat and chain stays to help it achieve this goal. |
Frame Details
The Legend MKII is constructed from hydroformed 7005 aluminum, with the rear shock surrounded by an impressively stout-looking forged section, an area Banshee calls the 'canoe.' A 1.5” head tube allows for the use of an AngleSet, giving riders more options if they decide to deviate from the stock 63.8 degree head angle. At the rear of the bike, a bolt on 12x150 thru-axle keeps the rear wheel secure and adds additional stiffness. The Legend uses sealed cartridge bearings at all pivot locations, and to save weight without sacrificing strength, titanium pivot hardware is used throughout the frame. As would be expected, ISCG 05 tabs are in place around the 83mm threaded bottom bracket shell. Cable routing is clean and simple, running along the top of the down tube and then on top of each side of the seat stays.
 |
| The rear shock rests inside a forged 'canoe,' and is mounted directly to the lower link of the twin link suspension design. |
Suspension Design
The Legend uses a twin link four-bar suspension design that Banshee calls VF4B (virtual floating four bar) a design that allows for a solid rear triangle to be used, further increasing frame stiffness. Similar to other virtual pivot designs, the VF4B is designed to be minimally affected by pedaling forces while remaining supple and active even during heavy braking. The Legend's suspension layout has an initially rearward axle path, the intent of which is to allow for better square edge bump absorption. There are numerous twin link suspension designs that mount the rear shock to the upper linkage, but the Legend goes a slightly different route, with the rear shock mounted directly to the lower link. The most significant advantage of this is the lower center of gravity – the shock sits as low as possible in the frame, which should aid in the overall stability and cornering characteristics of the bike.
Components
Downhill riders, especially racers, can be a fickle bunch, a fact Banshee addresses by not offering complete build kits for the Legend. The Legend MKII is only available as a frame, allowing riders to choose the build kit of their dreams. Banshee had our test sled built up with a heavy dose of Canadian pride, which makes sense given the company's "Born on the Shore" motto. Whistler-based Chromag took care of the bars and direct mount stem, and the cranks, grips, seat and seatpost were all handled by products from Race Face's lineup. A coil-sprung Fox 40 RC2 handled the suspension duties up front, while the previously mentioned Cane Creek Double Barrel Air took care of the rear.
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Riding the
Legend MKII
Legend MKII
 | It's like a battleship blasting through stormy seas - the Legend maintains its forward momentum no matter how big the waves. |
Descending
Solid. That's the feeling the Legend conveys, a feeling that translates into excellent stability at high speeds on the most chopped up of trails. As long as you can hold on, the Legend will stick to its line. Our test bike came equipped with a Fox 40, which certainly helps contribute to this equation, but the solid rear triangle and stout forged portions around the bottom bracket area certainly deserve credit for creating this feeling of stiffness as well. It's like a battleship blasting through stormy seas - the Legend maintains its forward momentum no matter how big the waves. While going flat-out is the Legend's preferred operating speed, on tighter, more technical trails it was still quite manageable.
The Legend is most at home on steep,
technical terrain, the gnarlier the better.
A take-charge riding style is definitely necessary in order to take full advantage of the Legend's capabilities - become complacent and the Legend can become a bit unwieldy. That being said, while it does take more effort to get it around tight corners, riders with an aggressive riding style shouldn't have much trouble getting the back end to go where they want it. Cornering on the Legend is like being on a pair of race stock GS skis – it responds best at high speeds, and can be pushed incredibly hard into corners without breaking loose. While some downhill bikes have a more playful, carvey feel, the Legend is all business, a rock solid platform for smashing into berms and rocketing out the other side. Jumps and drops were dispatched without trouble, and while we certainly used all the travel, we never felt any harsh bottoming out, even off of large drops into not-so-steep landings.
Suspension Performance
We stayed fairly close to the settings recommended by Banshee and Cane Creek for the Double Barrel Air, with the only changes being a little less high speed rebound (HSR) for a more lively feel. 35mm of sag is recommended, which we found to be fine for more natural trails, but ended up running slightly more air pressure for our laps at Whistler due to the higher speed, jump filled trails we ended up spending much of our time on. Increasing the air pressure made the bike ride higher in its travel and made it easier to pop off the lip of jumps. The shock's initial stroke didn't feel quite as supple on smaller obstacles, say an extended section of roots running perpendicular to the trail, but this wasn't a detriment, just a different feel when compared to a coil shock. The performance was flawless even on high speed, rough laps in the bike park, with the DBair consistently sucking up everything in its path for the duration of each run. We'd gladly run this shock instead of a coil shock, especially when factoring in the considerable weight savings it provides.
When pedalling on flat ground there was a noticeable amount of suspension movement, especially when standing. Each pedal stroke drove the shock well into its travel, creating a bobbing feeling - you certainly wouldn't even want to attempt to pedal this bike to the top of a run. But, as long as the slope pointed downhill there wasn't any trouble, and the bobbing sensation went away, even when pedalling out of the saddle. This is likely due to body position and weight distribution - the Legend pedals better with the rider's weight biased to the rear of the bike, which makes sense given that it's intended to be a pure downhill machine. The only other slight quibble we had was that getting a shock pump onto the DBair was a little tricky - our hands weren't quite small enough to sneak between the frame and the shock to thread the pump head on. It was quicker to undo the top shock bolt in order to tip the shock back and make accessing the valve easier.
 |
Component Report
• A Maxxis Minion DHF in the front and a Maxxis Highroller II in the rear were apt choices for the terrain we took the Legend on. Even on wet, slimy rock races and off-camber roots the tires had enough grip to stay on course. The Highroller II isn't the fastest rolling tire, but it earns its keep by providing excellent traction and control on steep, loose terrain.
• The Fox 40 RC2 is a big bruiser of a fork, happily plowing through rock gardens at full race pace. Once we had the compression, rebound, and preload set to our liking we didn't need to touch the fork for the remainder of the test.
• The non-clutch equipped SRAM X9 rear derailleur emerged with a few battle scars, but still shifted perfectly. The Truvativ chainguide helped reduce chainslap, but a Type II derailleur would have been nice to make the bike even quieter.
Pinkbike's Take:
| Although carbon fiber seems to be the latest wonder material of choice for many downhill racers, aluminum hasn't gone by the way side. Need proof? Take a look at the results from the last two World Cup races - aluminum bikes are still making their way into the top positions. Reduced frame weight is one of the reasons carbon fiber's popularity is increasing on the race circuit, but while our complete Legend weighed in at 39 pounds, it wouldn't be hard to shave a couple pounds off with a different build kit, putting it at a very competitive fighting weight. The Legend is a bike that can take a beating and keep on going strong, making it a good choice for riders who plan on spending all summer charging around at bike parks and on race courses. Riders with a bat-out-of-hell riding style and an eye towards durability may find that the Legend MKII is right up their alley. - Mike Kazimer |
www.bansheebikes.com
Author Info:
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one bike.. i will never part with i think..
the Canfields axlepath and leverage ratio is quite different, but jep both use a vpp linkage
still every four bar design does have a virtual pivot, which both designs are. I do not want to say the same system like SC but still a virtual pivot design.
IIRC they may even be the ones who do trek's carbon.
RE: the legend, the linkage, with two relatively short links connecting front and rear triangles, with the lower link driving the shock is similar to a SC V10, no?
Check that - upon further review, the difference is then the SC upper link is counter-rotating.
p-dub-4 The Pacific Cycle that you speak of is different than the smaller Pacific Cycles (Taiwan) that makes Banshee, Canfield, Niner and other small brands. Confusing, the large Pacific Cycle is a division of Dorel Industries, who owns Schwinn, GT, Mongoose, Cannondale, IronHorse, Sugoi and a bunch of other brand names.
The TR450, the Da Bomb Tsar Bomba, and the newest Airborn DH bike are examples of this process. The basic layout is the same, with different spec on the geo, and tube profiles. I find it interesting for all the negatives Da Bomb gets here, they are the house brand of the factory that makes the transition, which is well liked. The Da Bomb is a showcase of their profiling capabilites.
the banshee designer responded to you btw. keith wrote his master thesis about his linkage vf4b, get your facts.
the clone at taipe cycle show was a copy like the macmahone proto at eurobike which was a copy of a commencal supreme v3.
I had a transition tr450 prior to the legend, the guys at transition worked out their kinematics aswell or why do you think did it take them more than 2 years from seeing the first prototypes to get them on the market?
What you say about layouts is wrong, it just showes how audacious companies are by stealing designs which are good working...
You cannot reinvent the wheel
Honestly, you seem to be biased and not in favour of Banshee, I do not have a problem with that. Foes designs are equally to transition single pivot designs, I do not see a difference here... And what you say about axle paths is not correct. Every design does have specific movement such as a single pivot which rotates on a circular path. And the fact that Virtual Pivot designs (short link ones) do have pedal feedback on small rings does not only apply for Banshee...
Don´t get me wrong, I like Foes, I like Transition, I like Banshee. All of these brands do have soul and the people behind those brands do love to ride bikes. And in my case I made good experiences with their customer service.
But might it be possible that you try to bad mouth Banshee due to your bad experiences?
Did I not say I liked the Rune? I liked the Spitfire too. My comments are related to manufacturing in the modern era. Many manufacturers "claim' many things, but once investigated, the reality comes out. I don't think I'm badmouthing anyone. The original rune had a few flaws, the second version improved on some of them, and the new version looks pretty damn good. I was a loyal banshee customer previously, owning three banshee's prior to the Rune. Didn't matter to them. Customer service is what it is. Banshee chose to handle the situation the way they did, and its just reality. If they were just honest and said they made a mistake, or had a problem with the production run, so be it. Instead they chose to lie to me saying the frame was shipped, when it wasn't. They didn't even have one to ship. What did they offer in compensation for missing a whole season? The opportunity to PURCHASE another Banshee at employee pricing. They should have sent me a frame for free. I didn't mention this in any of my previous posts until builttoride claimed the customer service was superior. I had a previous run in with a paid for frame that was never delivered as well. The LBS reluctantly took care of that though.
From a 3rd party perspective, I don't feel Willie1 is negative about Banshee's bikes, just about their customer service. It is very interesting to walk round the Taipei show and see what he talks about, but I never know which came first - the name brand designs or the house brand designs.
I don't see it as negative at all, it's just the process of manufacturing. The only thing that I find quite strange is that by looking at frames, you can see the varying level of tech that goes into different brands. For instance, if you put an aluminium Demo and a Transition TR250 side by side, as I did when I was about to buy a TR250 two years ago, the difference in finish quality is staggering. The transition looks like it was cobbled together for someone's university project in comaprison to the highly polished Demo. That's all fine, until you look at the price tags.
Which brings me to my point. I think a lot of smaller companies are very lucky about, or skillful in their exploitation of, the stigma attached to big brands. I personally would never pay $3000 for a frame from one of the boutique brands, when I could have a Wilson or V10 that looks like a work of art for pretty much the same price. I know those two are small brands too, but take a look at Giant, Trek or Spesh and you see a much more polished product than a small brand bike. There is definitely a place for the smaller brands in the marketplace, but for me they should be priced according to the tech used in manufacture, and they aren't. A TR450 is not in the same league as a Wilson or Demo in my opinion. They should be $1800 for a frame, not $2800.
"Rider owned for life" - who cares? I care about paying my mortgage, my kids' school fees and putting food on the table. I don't give a shit who made my bike or whose pocket the money is going in. Obviously a lot of people disagree though, or I fear a lot of small but expensive bike firms would cease to be.
It sounds like a bike Gwinner should be riding
ps. I didn't neg rep you.
oxxxxxxxxxxOxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxo = Trek, Da Bomb
oxxxxxxxOxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxo = Demo
oxxxxxxxOxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxo = large Demo
see the difference?
oxxxxxxxOxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxo = Wilson: has similar proportion to line 1 in weight distribution. Line 2 is too rearward, placing too much weight on the rear, and not enough on the front. Line 3 is Aaron's solution. Gives him more room, but makes the original problem worse.
It sounds like a bike Gwinner should be riding"
btw. It's my job to evaluate if stories are well written so I doubt I'm at fault here
Shame cos otherwise its a great mobile site
I love mine, won't change for a long time!
www.pinkbike.com/photo/8943258
Exactly why i chose this frame 3 years ago. The faster it goes the better she feels. Still going strong, plan on not replacing it for another 2 years.
p.s i break a lot of stuff
My bike.....Legend MK1
^^*)
Good luck with sales! It's a rockin' rig!
MK1 is my bike too stiff pivot.
^^*)
they truly are an amazing bike to ride. build quality is second to none.
www.pinkbike.com/photo/9319481
R35P3C7
2014is just round the season
Solid rear triangle really are much stiffer. Alu is material of choice. Way to go.
Airshocks - nowhere near as good as a springshock. If you get a frame with a 2-3:1 leverage you run a 250lb spring - half the weight of a 500lb spring and only 200gr more than airshock.
Pricing for this taiwanese frame is off:
Turner, Foes, Intense start at 2.3k to 2.6k.
As for prices - if the frame is good I don't care where it was made. Intense had huge alignement issues.
As for low leverage ratio why we are discussing it when the legend is 2.6? Also too low leverage ratio and stiction is a much bigger issue, the shock becomes way less sensitive.
And runing a to low weight spring with too much sag means your frame is unbalanced and you run in the wrong part of the anglepath meaning worse pedaling, worse breaking and way way worse bump sensitivity.
The reason you changed to air is probably that you ran heavy springsrates - no need to discuss that issue here because you lack the experience of running low rates. So what you have now is an airshock stuck in midtravel and stiction whereas before you had the coil do all the work because you couldn`t use the full lower range of damper adjustments. Low range because that is where you get linear behavior of adjustment only. High range is sort of damage control to keep the shock from selfdestructing. Stiction is not a proper form of damping ;-)
My frame - rear and front are balanced. Huge difference. Smoothing bumps and braking is absolutely great. I want my suspension action beyond platform action. I really dont care if its pedaling well or not. We are talking Big Bikes here.
wrlksw.sn2.livefilestore.com/y2pIukeGQefqpo7f6BXJJ49OlxegDK884Ht3LHaKPshLuovGF7BxjTeKlrozf8YT3Ui315Qr_7zgb3gphche4rzvNQMQCt7sl1ac94bwQbMwCo1oZQpM5rUoeU-gXl0jcDO/_DSC4567.JPG?psid=1
@BDKR: Exactly, its not right to run high spring rates for that special moment where you would need it. I know my track - there are two landings where I could easely use up all travel and bumpstop my shocks. But since my bike is not a pogo stick I keep my trajectory flat and - no problem - fast in fast out.
Weightsaving doesn`t mean squat on a dh-rig...
Also again we are speaking about the legend. You don't know crap about legend leverage rate which works very well with an air shock since it has a high leverage ratio at first which overcomes shock stiction. Please don't theorise if you have close to no knowledge about suspension.
btw. Coil and air shocks may be bad and good. The only problem with air shocks is initial stiction but if the leverage rate is progressive at first it will work well.