The New Banshee Rune - One Bike to Rule Them All

248 Comments

Score Time Who Faved

+ 35

bigoecoiler (Nov 24, 2012 at 13:29)

Oh gee thanks pinkbike. Way to open the door to more stupid LOTR comments...

+ 27

JoseBravo (Nov 24, 2012 at 13:49)

You shall not flat!!!

Kerba (Nov 24, 2012 at 15:00)

a thing of beauty...

- 31

iridept (Nov 24, 2012 at 15:54) (Below Threshold) show comment

sick bike but the music was harsh neg props pleze

larryssman7 (Nov 24, 2012 at 16:45)

That's a crazy rock roll in the last pic, I'd be scared to ride that!

dirtjumper787 (Nov 24, 2012 at 17:20) (Below Threshold) show comment

What is lotr?

+ 26

sngltrkmnd (Nov 24, 2012 at 17:26)

One does not simply RIDE down Mount Doom!

diabolicaldan (Nov 24, 2012 at 18:29)

My precious.... preeeeciooooss....

gooberx (Nov 24, 2012 at 21:23)

I like it when frames have much simpler graphics. (Thank you for reading my shallow/ dumb comment!)

+ 42

LordFly (Nov 24, 2012 at 21:56)

Too bad it comes out in the winter, seems late. but then again, a Banshee is never late. Nor is it early. It arrives precisely when it means to.

The-Medic (Nov 24, 2012 at 22:39)

When you're born in a place where it's ALWAYS rainy.. there is no "winter" Wink

pigman65 (Nov 25, 2012 at 7:17)

LOTR is so old school,time to start on The Hobbit quotes !

full15 (Nov 25, 2012 at 8:54)

I literally just made a list of my options for my next/only bike entitled "one bike to rule them all" two weeks ago. Could it be that Jon Hadfield a nerd like me?

samsemtex (Nov 25, 2012 at 16:43)

Oh Americans and Canadians who think its always rainy in the Pacific Northwest, how i laugh at thee. Your rain pales in comparison to Ireland and the UKs. You get summers, we do not.

The-Medic (Nov 25, 2012 at 17:53)

"Your rain pales in comparison to Ireland and the UKs..." hahahahahaha Ok whatever. I'm not saying you live in a "dry" region, but that statement just shows you've never spent any serius time here. It's a different type of rain, but we actualy get more anual rainfall in the PNW then all of the UK and IRE yearly.

It's called the "Cascade Rain-shadow" and untill you've experienced it you've never SEEN rain fall this hard or long. I know what you mean about the constant grey skies in the UK, but having been born in the North of Scottland (inverness) and spending a LOT of time there I've never seen a rain storm like what we get all fall/winter long here (this weekend it was raining so hard the water was bouncing 2 FEET in the air after hitting the ground). Yes we get a form of summer, and maybe we even get more sunny days, but we get more average rain fall yearly too. It's because of our topography that we have the climate we do. The UK is so comparitively flat that storms just move across the land in a way that doesn't hapen here. It's pretty crazy to have a desert climate just the other sides of the Cascades, but WEST of the Cascades... totally different story. It also has to do with the storm tracks we get coming down from Alaska and since we live on the side of the biggest body of water in the world Wink

Oh AND we get many many FEET of snow which is just frozen rain.

The-Medic (Nov 25, 2012 at 20:19)

I'll give you this... at least you foks can DRIVE in the bloody rain!!!!! For a place where it rains this much, people are truly awfull at driving in the rain... like REALLY REALLY, beyond all imagination AWFULL.

pigman65 (Nov 26, 2012 at 10:41)

Snow, however is a different proposition !

The-Medic (Nov 26, 2012 at 23:45)

I'll bet Pigman... Wet snow is a bitch to drive in espescialy when drivers see it so rarely in the UK. it's the same in the citys here, we get that wet, slippery snow (people can't belive how much dry snow actually AIDS traction as it packs the tyre treads and actually sticks to the other snow) that likes to freeze over at night and turn into ice and frost... Portland Oregon is litterally PARALYZED when it snows... I do my "good Karma" deeds for the year and go out in my Hillux and pull people out of ditches to save them the cost of and the ong wait on a Tow Truck. My truck is a mountain goat in teh snow and I worked up on Mt. Hood here in OR for a few years aftter HS. a Good set of winter tyres does wonders, but everyone HERE just decides to get studs put and then for the majority of the time it's never snowy so they just chews the roads and have even WRSE traction on bare roads :headslap: Seriously, US drivers are so BAD... Some of you lot drive like crazzy fookers (being passed by a kid in a turbo Fiesta on a BARELY 2 lane road with jagged rck wals 5 ft high on both sides of the road is a life shcangeing expereince aye Wink

hahahaha) , but at least you guys actually have the concept that driving is a SERIOUS THING (and training in HOW TO DRIVE). Everyone here feels entitled to drive and the don't seem to realize how deadly a car can be. It's like waving a gun aroud in a crowded room with some fo these idiots. I love driving on the M's over there cause people DO NOT drive in teh fast lane just to cruise along, and traffic just flows so much better... man I gotta get back to Sco. soon, I really miss it. plus that vid of the Lake District in Whales just made me crazy wanting to be over there again (been ike 3 years since I was over to see the fam)

samsemtex (Nov 28, 2012 at 14:59)

I see where you are coming from Medic but you are making the mistake of assuming our national rainfall average is accurate everywhere (as for never having spent any time in PNW, i lived in Whistler/North Vancouver for the last two years so...yeah). Most of Ireland isn't that mountainous so the inland areas get vastly less rain than the mountainous areas. This summer in Whistler it rained a lot until June and then stopped completely. I dont think it rained again until i left in October and as far as im aware it was pretty much the same everywhere in the PNW.

Where i live gets about double the national average and in places like Kerry they get 3 times the national average. For example, here it averages 2800mm/110 inches of rainfall a year, that is 2.5 times wetter than Seattle and thats just on average. This year it is probably going to be closer to 4000mm/160inches and this isnt even the wettest part of the country.So basically all the good places to ride bikes, hike, climb, kayak are way rainier than the national average. So your rainy places are just a little bit wetter than our national average and way less so than our rainy areas I think my original statement was accurate.

God why am i so intent on depressing myself? Why cant i agree with you and pretend its not actually that wet here haha.

jgusta (Nov 28, 2012 at 20:52)

The-Medic, sounds like your in P-town like me, When you get your Rune, let's ride! -Jon

The-Medic (Nov 29, 2012 at 12:42)

@J-Gusta: Yeah I'm actually just over in "old main st". Tigard, but yes I'm in the Portland Area. Would LOVE to go for a ride mate, I PM'd ya back.

@Samsemtex: Sorry I assumed you hadn't lived here, clearly I was wrong aye. YES, we had a VERY nice summer this year, but also a very uncharetaristic one at that. I cant remember the last time it was this sunny and warm for this long, but hey I'm not complaining Wink

I know what you mean about "averages" too, when you look at the maps of Oregon and Washington you see a LOT of yellow and orange then you get over Portland and Puget Sound and it's all dark blue and Purple (meaning heavy rain)... I'm in a little place here too tht get's this wierd "Rain shadow within a rain-shoadow" too kind of what yu;re refering to where you live. Our place down near the coast get's it's own little rain shadow and see's almost 175-200" of rain a year, the mountains are just high enough and there are all these little draws and it just SUCKS in the rain.... SO bloody WET, but when it's sunny... OH baby is it gorgeous.

Let's just both, for the sake of not depressing our-selves, declare that we both live in WET ASS PLACES Wink

"more wet" at this point is just a matter of who's standing farther out in the pond aye Wink

I like to think it makes us better riders hahahahahahahaha.

samsemtex (Nov 29, 2012 at 16:31)

Haha definitely. Also both of these places are amazingly beautiful when the weather is good. I was in Portland for a few weeks in October, its a great city.

The-Medic (Nov 29, 2012 at 17:27)

Yeah it's amazing what rain will do for plant life aye Wink

I've only spent a VERY little time in Ireland, and I want to go explore more... Cheers mate and try'n keep yer powder dry hahahahahaha.

woodyc (May 13, 2013 at 22:04)

Heavier rain less often. More sunny days. Lots of snow all winter. That's better than miserable shit pissy rain that falls here almost every day.

samsemtex (May 14, 2013 at 10:09)

f*cking truth!

@the medic just so you know we literally havent had any nice weather since i made my last comment. Its 7 degrees and pissing rain again as it has done all of april and May. Ive been home 6 months now and have not seen one sustained period of good weather. Cattle are still indoors because land is too wet and there is no grass growth. Its may!!!

The-Medic (May 14, 2013 at 22:21)

Ouch!!! We've had unseasonably good weather here mate.... if I could I'd send some your way. Theyre talking "drought" here... nothing like down south or Australia where I lived but we litteraly NEVER hear those words... cheers mate, hope the weather gets better aye.

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+ 20

MTB-Harry (Nov 24, 2012 at 13:33)

I love do it all bikes, I'd probaly get one just like this, exept theres a recession on at the moment, I'll just stick it out on my obese all-mountain hardtail...

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+ 11

The-Medic (Nov 24, 2012 at 14:23)

I think this thing looks phenomenal and the engineering/design ideas behind it are awesome. I love the ability to run both sizes of wheel, but now we need some 650B forks that aren't the pinner Fox 34 and have a 20mm axle for harder riding...

GiantXTC-0 (Nov 24, 2012 at 15:52)

Magura, x fusion, white brothers... and all rockshox fork have decent clearance with 650b tires

deeeight Plus (Nov 24, 2012 at 18:06)

Actually the ONLY rockshox forks with "decent" clearance are Psylos, first generation Pikes, the Lyrics and Domains, the new 650B specific models, and their 29er forks.

Ollie-J (Nov 24, 2012 at 21:22)

Bansheeit these are sick

The-Medic (Nov 24, 2012 at 22:35)

Agreed... I was really excited to hear this as a rumor several moths ago and I wrote Banshee and got a very prompt and "non-robotic" responce from them saying that they were indeed bringing this option and to wait for an announcment "very soon"... Now I'll be honest, I've heard this a LOT in the many years I've been riding and around the bike industry in general (33 now, started racing BMX at 5... it's been a while Wink

) but I give Bashee MEGA CREDIT because... unlike so many releases of "new and or Revolutionary" deisgns, it is on the front page in less then a month... Big props to Banshee for getting this frame out as predicted and looking so great. 160MM and 3 differnt wheel options WITHOUT BEING ROPED INTO ONE SPECIFIC SIZE is brillinat in my book. The design of the rear end is just kind of one of those "oh yeah... why didn't we do that before" kind of things now that it's being embraced and utilized to give us more flexibility in a "one bike" set-up. Awesome work Banshee, you guys must be proud parents Wink

Mishtar (Nov 24, 2012 at 22:47)

Yup xfusion states on their website their 170mm Vengance fork works with 650b .

The-Medic (Nov 25, 2012 at 0:19)

That I would be very interested in... X-Fusion has been really sneaking in the back door on "the big 3" and I'd gladly give their stuff a try esp. if it's 650B and 20mm.

dchill (Nov 25, 2012 at 4:59)

Big 3? Fox, RS and?

deeeight Plus (Nov 25, 2012 at 7:03)

Actually the Big 3 WAS Manitou, Rockshox, and Marzocchi.

dchill (Nov 25, 2012 at 7:30)

My bad I forgot about Marzocchi. Besides the Dorado manipoo really doesn't do anything well at all.

The-Medic (Nov 26, 2012 at 16:17)

Everyone does these days it seems... Sad cause when they're working propperly, they're easily THE plushest forks Ive ever ridden. I got lucky with my 55 and have had ZERO issues with the dampner or the axle so I like the thing. No odd noises either and no other "typical" issues... I know I'm the exception not the rule on this though Wink

I'm hoping that DVO and SR-Suntour will start to be more excepted and continue to grow as X-Fusion is (esp DVO, I'm loving what they're coming up with) so we'll have some more healthy competetion leading to lower prices for quality forks/shocks again. Right now if you;re gonna buy new, you're either going RS, FOX or you've got some serious coin and buying BOS. The current "Big 2" have both bike co.'s and us consumers over a barrel right now and prices refect that.

Mishtar (Nov 30, 2012 at 21:36)

Marzocchi is back to making the best forks since 2011. I have not heard anything but high praise about the 55, 66 or 888 on the north shore.

The-Medic (Dec 1, 2012 at 18:22)

Thanks for the Heads up Mishtar, that's awesome to hear (not that it get's through the "noise" of the internet per usual... I still hear everyone talking about how "bad Marz is these days" everywhere :rolleyes: ) cause I LOVE Marzo Forks personally. I was just looking at their site as I've not been on it in at LEAST a year and I'm REALLY sad to see that like a lot of Bike companies, the concept of "Freeride" is dead to them now-days with the passing of the 66 Frown

... The 66 was a GREAT fork and as much as I've been happy with my 55, it's no replacement for the 66 in it's intended use (and as great as the 888 is, Long-Travel SC forks are better fr FR IMO). I AM glad to see that you can still get a COIL SPRUNG 55 with good internals and adjustments. For a min I though it was either a Coil sprung "R" or an Air sprung "RC yadda yadda yadda"... Still bummed that by al accounts the "freeride" market is dying...

dchill (Dec 1, 2012 at 20:29)

Freeride market dying? With Fox making the 180 series and RS doing the Totem and Lyrik, XFusion Vengence.

The-Medic (Dec 1, 2012 at 22:39)

You're correct of course in respect to those models, and maybe I'm looking at the bike industry as a whole, but look at all the FR bikes that don't exist and have had no replacements planned... It's pretty clear that like "freeride" was 15 years ago, "Enduro" is the new buzz word/category that EVERY company is trying like mad to get in on. Quite a few at the cost of having freeride stuff in their line-up. Big companies that have a virtual strangle-hold on the industry get to have LOTS of differnt products in their lines while a lot of smaller comapnies have to cut back and Freeride seems to be where the cuts are coming. I think X-Fusion is on the rise AND they were pretty much started as an AM/FR comapny from the get go. Marzo has been having troubles and lost a HUGE ammount of the market share over the last few years so, they have to pare down the line to make it more profitable with fewer products and what goes?? The 66.. notice how many XC/trail forks they have though. To be fair, compared to what we were making do with when this whole sub-segment of the sport began, these "AM forks" look like dual-crowns in terms of size (I remmber when the Marz DJ came out with those "huge" 32mm stanchions) and most XC race forks have more travel and are stiffer/stronger then the first forks I started getting into FR on aye. Realisticly, you can ride most "FR" trails these days on a 6" bike so maybe its a moot point.

dchill (Dec 2, 2012 at 5:28)

The reason Marzocchi lost a big part of the market share was because they made crap forks during some key years 08-2011. They lost many customers because of this and the fact that RS started producing better products at lighter weights. Fox was honing their line up with fit and took over the gap that Marzocchi left wide open. There was a time Marzocchi was known as a set and forget fork, change the oil once or twice a year and that was it. It was the only company I used. Now I still wouldn't touch one. I know they really turned around in 2012 but they are still heavy and they have to prove themselves.

deeeight Plus (Dec 2, 2012 at 20:35)

Well marzocchi was trying to play catchup on OEM sales in order to get their brand name onto lower price point bikes so the quality was just crap and the technology was 15-20 years old. Non-damped coil forks that cost more than a SR-Suntour that came with oil-damping, but was labeled marzocchi with the M-stylized lower castings. This was especially moronic to do given that by that time, SR-Suntour WAS making their forks for them at the lower ranges. Even with them doing production, Marzocchi was still having forks priced higher (no brainer there given that suntour produced WAY more units of their own models, so once the tooling was paid off the price per fork gets rididiculously cheap). The more units you produce, the more you can spread development costs over the production run and lower the price you need to sell it at to stay in business. Anyone who's been following the F-35 fighter boondogle should be familiar with this... as problems have mounted, the unit costs have risen (per plane) from what was supposed to be around $60 million each, to now close to $150 million each. Then the various customers reduce their orders and the unit cost goes up yet again.

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+ 11

scruff0372 (Nov 24, 2012 at 23:10)

The rider is Banshees Sales and marketing manager, hes no pro but how many other bike companies do you know whose sales rep rides the shore on vids?

Frame looks superb and angles look great.

blitz66 (Nov 26, 2012 at 8:36)

pretty sure the transition reps shred....

The-Medic (Nov 26, 2012 at 16:23)

They (transition reps) do, but neither are "typical" companies in many ways. LOTS of the big brands have guys who ride, but probably not in a "film worthy" way like this fella. This guy looks like he's a pretty dam good rider and I give his vid a big thumbs up along with the new frame. It'd be a DAM shame to get to work for on of these companies and NOT ride aye.

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Matt76 (Nov 24, 2012 at 13:46)

I used to have the previous Rune and it rode amazing, just dogged with reliability problems. This new Rune looks in a different league to the the one I had. I am looking forward to them getting a new UK importer. I always said that I would never buy another Banshee after the problems I had with my prevoius one but this has definitely changed my mind. This look amazing and I bet it rides amazing too. Keith Scott is a brilliant designer and was nothing but helpful with my prevoius bike. Well done guys it looks like you hit the nail in the head!'

Willie1 (Nov 24, 2012 at 14:09)

Banshee lost me as a customer over repeated warranty issues a few years back. I had 4 different Banshee's prior to that, and a 5th they never did deliver in spite of a deposit at the local LBS. I waited 9 months for that bike prior to cancelling the order, and a warranty repair frame took nearly a year.

fries (Nov 24, 2012 at 18:14)

I've owned quite a few Banshee's and any issues or warranty stuff that has ever come up has been dealt with quickly and always free, I think after all this time they are still my favorite company.the Rampant was such a sick bike, so much fun at whis, this Rune is my next park bike for sure. Maybe it was the LBS dickin you around there bud

Willie1 (Nov 25, 2012 at 10:10)

It wasn't the LBS. I was dealing directly with Banshee after the distributor gave me a bunch of BS.

bizyclayz (Nov 26, 2012 at 12:29) (Below Threshold) show comment

I've also given up on Banshee. My Rune fell apart, and now I'm supposed to pay 900$ to get this new pile of a frame, or I can get another bushing frame as a warranty replacement. Total garbage. My 2000$ frame lasted not even a year, and i'm not the most aggressive rider. My warranty process has been a total pain in the ass. I was told all along that i was going to get a 2013 Rune as a warranty replacement, now it turns out that i have to pay. I'm glad that I've switched over to the Slayer, it's a way better bike in every way. Lighter, stiffer, waaaay better climber. Also the the Slayer comes in proper sizes not this small medium large crap.
Seriously, who cares about 650b if the main link is gonna loosen up permanently in a few months? Never. Again. Rocky Mountain Rules!

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aerox1982 (Nov 25, 2012 at 2:57)

LOL "Rule them All" ??? The last I check for the best Mountainbike Technology, nothing is much different other than Zerode's rig. All it needs are finer tune.

www.pinkbike.com/news/Zerode-G-1-Gearbox-DH-Frame-2012.html .... this will be the future of mountainbike frame and gearing!!!! Can wait for their AM Carbon Fiber Rig!!!!!!

Stralov (Nov 25, 2012 at 5:54)

yeah its interesting for sure... but you dont need revolution all the time. progress is fine. for me personally the zerode is ugly... though centered gearbox is an interesting thing. such as pinion frames from nicolai or alutech.

aerox1982 (Nov 25, 2012 at 21:46)

lets just say zerode is ugly, but personally aesthetics is the last thing to consider with a machine in motion. ANd like I've said it needs more tuning, and yes progress is fine specially when it comes to the interest of the community, like interchangeable drop-outs and deleting deraileurs ....

Stralov (Nov 26, 2012 at 4:17)

aight. im curious to see whats about to come.

The-Medic (Nov 26, 2012 at 17:25)

I agree with wantign to see more G-Box bikes... the ALutech AM bike looks stunning (I VASTLY prefer the gear box to Zerode's Alfine hub, but I gove erode nothing bup big props for their innovative designs and I think their DH bike looks stunning) As do a few others. If you look at my profile under the "ME WANT" pic folder I have a coupe cool G-box bikes in there. The Nicolai frames are for the most part, IMO, HIDEOUS, but their one simple looking G-box bike (the Helieos???) is really cool looking. I think that Gear Boxes or even something like what Zerode did to utilize the IG'd hub WITHOUT having to put that much unsprung weight on the rear axle is a geat idea and realy some of the most TRUE Technological progress we've seen in the industry over the last 20+ years. All the same... This new RUNE looks fantastic to my eyes and I LOVE the thinking behind it...Now a Rune with a nice low mounted Gearbox (looks REALLY easy to do since the lower links don't cross the plane of the seat tube) would truly be BEYOND Drool

worthy....

Stralov (Nov 29, 2012 at 1:58)

yeah... the downside is, you still have to pay around 1k more for the gearbox version Wink

The-Medic (Nov 29, 2012 at 17:32)

Agreed... so sad, BUT in theory, as long as you like the geo of your frame over the long haul (and with todays ultra-adjustable frames you could always change this and that) you'd have a tranny that you could easily rebuild. The same can be a down-side too as most frames seem t be pretty proprietary with the fitemnt meaning you;re likely NOT gonna be able to take you G-Boxx with you to another frame, with modern Der's you CAN just swap everything over to a new frame and I think THAT'S where they need to do work to make a "standard" so that the G-Boxx can be a transposable item from bike to bike aye... We can dream though right Wink

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gastonbx (Nov 24, 2012 at 15:35)

+10 for the Interchangeable dropouts, hope more brands start including them

The-Medic (Nov 26, 2012 at 18:20)

@gastonbx: AGREED X1,000,000

THe Blackmarket Roam uses them for the same use. Other brands like Scott and Intense (and a few more I'm sure I can't think of) use them as well, but NOT to give you mutiple wheel options which is what I'm extremey excited about. It's such a simple design (not to nock the designer or enineer, it's still smart thinking) but it makes this frame (and the ROAM as well) SUCH a great option for those riders who eaither can't afford or can't have multiple bikes for whatever reason. With geo like this and 160mm of travel this bike really is fully "DO IT ALL" bike aye. I assue the frame is built beefy enough to handle some park riding, I hope it is cause if I choose to build one of these up (it just made my top 3 choices as of right now and it's rising in that list more and more) it WILL be seeing some time in Oregon's famous FR spots.

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rAtty-c (Nov 24, 2012 at 18:27)

Not often a fan of all-mountain style frames but this in the black ano with a coil shock may just be the sexiest thing i have ever seen. would sell all my bikes for it if they would cover anything more than just the frame lol

The-Medic (Nov 26, 2012 at 18:21)

yeah I REALLY want to see one of these with like a Totem or a Vanilla 170-180mm 20mm axled fork and a rear coil in it as well... That would be DEAD sexy, but I think I'd have to go with the Blue it's just so sweet looking, but ano-black is a tough call as i'd bet it'll look completely badass too Wink

rAtty-c (Nov 26, 2012 at 19:10)

This is the kinda build i had in mind for one.. Hella expensive but my god it would be a fun thing:
www.pinkbike.com/photo/8946157

The-Medic (Nov 26, 2012 at 23:33)

uh YEAH.... Spendy??? Most definately YES, DEAD SEXY??? OH f*ck YEAH!!!!! That would look SO sick. I'd like to go with green Chromag stuff and maybe some green Spank rims etc. Basicly just green where you have the red, but yeah that would be SUC a sick build... I think with a majority of black components and like gold chain ring, hubs , grip LO-rings with black stem/barsbars, maybe saint group with gold straight-ines platforms??? That would look sweet to, but now that I think about it, a "stealth black" build with cold accent prts would look tight too...

I'm gonna have to make up one of those little build collages. Did you just do it in PS??? My new laptop is lacking so I thik all I have is MS paint Frown

hipefully it'' work aye... You've inspired e to see what kind of color combos I want cause this bike is pretty much top of my list right now.

rAtty-c (Nov 27, 2012 at 5:36)

Yeah they are a fun thing to do, just to see what parts you could mash together. I make these on powerpoint as it is easy to resize/crop photos on there.

The-Medic (Dec 1, 2012 at 18:26)

Here was a little idea I whipped up Wink

Lots of Stuff to change in there (a CCBDA would be the first) but I think it'd be a sweet bike that I could be happy with for MANY years.... THanks for reminding me of how much fun to make these little "collage's" are aye mate...

http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/8950249/

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Skyppy (Nov 24, 2012 at 17:01)

Finally a VPP bike looking interesting and innovative !

Exactly the kind of bike I would like to try, because it looking to be a real bike, made with sense (not just a commercial or marketing sense) and made for real ride and real fun.

vic690 (Nov 25, 2012 at 3:48)

Totally agree .. a great and innovative frame .. angles seem to be perfect and VPP completes it all ... The only down note is the price ... specially for us europeans ...

drakche (Nov 26, 2012 at 4:55)

I think that 1720E for a fox one is a solid price. Compared to the adaptability of the frame.

c1olin (Nov 27, 2012 at 14:17)

It's four-bar, but I don't think it's VPP because the top link swings up.

drakche (Nov 27, 2012 at 14:36)

I think it's a refinement of the VPP. I read it somewhere, but I can't find the link.

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remone (Nov 24, 2012 at 15:56)

banshee still makes the most interesting bikes this bike is wonderfull i would have it if i had the money

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schnecor000 (Nov 24, 2012 at 14:00)

should be... "the new banshee rune - one bike to RUNE them all"

Worm-Burner (Nov 24, 2012 at 23:14)

or Ruin perhap....

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maximumradness (Nov 25, 2012 at 14:56)

not one of you mentioned that there is finally a enduro/am bike with a 150 rear hub. s many adj. so many options, and great modern angles- what a great bike. pray for the carbonium angels to kiss this one in 2014!!

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EnduroManiac (Nov 25, 2012 at 10:23)

Hey Banshee

That's old news you're posting here. What about the weight? The one of the proto was scarry (frame alone way higher than a V10c with coil shock (I know, frames don't have the same price point, but I don't want a frame heavier than the one I have, same category, and my Slayer is all but light). Projections for production were more reasonable. So what's the final story? I know weight isn't everything. But it still counts.

hypermoto (Nov 25, 2012 at 18:51)

^^Agreed, website says 6.5lbs for medium, assuming that means without shock. Would like to see a picture of the frame on a scale to confirm. If that's accurate then this could truly be one hell of a bike.

drakche (Nov 26, 2012 at 7:16)

On one of the forums someone weighted the L frame with Fox at 3.6 kg

EnduroManiac (Nov 27, 2012 at 3:34)

It's a little higher than I'd like it but it's still ok. Thanks for the post!

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bikehard11 (Nov 24, 2012 at 14:23)

Cool looking bike but what the heck was that music?

sngltrkmnd (Nov 24, 2012 at 17:27)

Utter shite. And the riding was frankly ho-hum, too.

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jimeg (Nov 24, 2012 at 17:30)

The Covert is totally different animal. The travel is all these two have in common. The Rune is slacker, lower and shorter in the rear. Not to mention totally adjustable and convertible without a Cane Creek AS knocker. The only thing the Covert has over the Rune is it is carbon. A carbon bike can be built stiffer and lighter than AL - (OK, here come the AL apologists). Hope to see '14 carbon version of this bike. Banshee will really be making the industry play catch up then, and they already are with this bike. Someone has to show the way. Thanks Banshee.

conv3rt (Nov 25, 2012 at 0:36)

Any comments on the ibis hd?

jaame (Nov 25, 2012 at 2:36)

The covert looks a lot better, but the Rune looks to have better angles and a superior suspension platform.

This video is great. I love the vital stats being given at the start, really a good idea. Thumbs up for the video. Thumbs down for the plate gusset at the top/seat tube junction.

Thumbs up for the adjustability at the dropout, thumbs down for the industrial appearance of it. They could have made it look cleaner me thinks.

Still, it looks like a great bike. I think it will ride well.

jimeg (Nov 25, 2012 at 11:19)

I actually just sold my Mojo HD. It was a very good bike. Extremely stiff, stable and spot on tracked like it was on rails. I was running an angles set at 65.5 degree HA and a coil shock with 170 fork. I sold it. I want something like this Rune. Shorter chainstays, lower BB and a stock slack HA so I don't have to run a headset that knocks under heavy hits. I just wish the Rune were carbon. Carbon frame ride quality is superior.

conv3rt (Nov 25, 2012 at 17:11)

Yeah good comments. Ran mine with a 180 talas and was slightly sub 66 HA. Really like mine but just picked up a cheap truax and its pretty sweet. Rides like a mini DH that you can climb. Touch on the heavy side though. I agree that when I saw the rune come out I was pretty attracted to it. If a carbon version comes out, it'll be high on my list for a future ride. No qualms about riding hard on a carbon frame. the HD took absolutely everything that i threw at it and was like "meh." My impression is that most makers are looking for ways to bring carbon into their product line. Agreed on the angle set. Knocks whilst shredding are not welcome. Cheers

jaame (Nov 25, 2012 at 20:24)

In ten years everyone will be doing carbon. Cheaper, better and more desirable.

EnduroManiac (Nov 25, 2012 at 23:54)

Not sure about that. It surely is economy dependent, but energy should not be cheaper in the future, neither the salaries of chinese employees. Sure they can still move the factories to other places that are still cheaper than China (Vietnam, Bengladesh or even north Korea) to aleviate the latter issue.
Carbon fiber (and its matrix) are oil-based products. In everage the price of oil rises.

So unless they find brilliant new processes, like using robots and stuffs, i don't really see the price of carbon frames dropping. I hope I'm wrong though!

khan (Nov 26, 2012 at 8:24)

The best way to describe the Mojo HD is that it is a precision instrument that will reward you like no other bike when you're on your game. It is less forgiving though when you're not. I also have a Banshee legend and I love how it performs. I'm sure this offering from Banshee is sweet too.

conv3rt (Nov 26, 2012 at 20:01)

Enduro. I think the carbon frame prices will drop based on scale. My top quality mojo HD frame was $2500. I can find a lot of aluminum frames in the same price category. Either way, we'll find out. I prefer carbon but I'm happy to ride either.

EnduroManiac (Nov 27, 2012 at 3:36)

You're in part right indeed, the high prices of the molds play a big role in the price I guess. But let's see! Either carbon or alu I want a fun bike!

conv3rt (Nov 27, 2012 at 16:16)

Well said. Totally agree.

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Pmrmusic26 (Nov 29, 2012 at 18:08)

I think its a great video, I don't know why people always think cuz its a video it has to be a pro rider. I think this shows that they are a passionate company cuz even there sales rep is out there shredding the trails. Looks like a great bike, I would love to see it in carbon also.

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The-Medic (Nov 26, 2012 at 18:24)

I wonder if the frames on these are beefy enough for riding the parks and some "milder" FR??? I assume it is, but I'd be interested to hear from Banshee if this is somethig they intended for this bike (kind of guess it is, but with the Wildcard, maybe its not meant to take big hits as much...maybe). Either way I find it SO sexy...

wallheater (Nov 26, 2012 at 22:41)

I don't know if anyone from Banshee will enter the gongshow, but I know that the bike in the vid has done plenty of lift assisted stuff in Europe (such as the Pila vid above), plus until around two weeks ago it lived on the North Shore so has done plenty of gnarly stuff here too. I've seen Jon hit some decent doubles on it, and followed the bike down various DH runs on the Sunshine Coast. I've no idea if it would survive casing a 15ft dorp to falt, but for modern day DH / light FR I'm sure it'd be fine and dandy.

The-Medic (Nov 27, 2012 at 13:03)

Yeah my days of stair gaps and dorps to falt are def. behind me Wink

I figured this was built to take abuse, sounds like it's truly an amazing bike... I'm sold.

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philip9175 (Nov 24, 2012 at 13:53)

not really a big fan of that open and hollow seat tube/ top tube gusset, why leave an opening for mud/water/dirt to get into a place not easily accessible to clean? Very nice looking bike though apart from that. Still wish i could get a Knolly Chilcotin over here in Australia. Might try to pick one up when i'm in BC in June

SFRacing (Nov 24, 2012 at 17:27)

You can get knolly here in Aus, give Over the Edge a call, they are in Melrose, South Australia, they do all boutique bike's here in Aus, bloody awesome shop and service!!!

philip9175 (Nov 24, 2012 at 19:09)

i've tried emailing them before but no response, will try again and contact them

Treehugger84 (Nov 24, 2012 at 23:50)

It's in effort to stay light. An easy fix for this is stretch a piece of innertube across that opening to keep the mud out. I'm already envisioning my build....

philip9175 (Nov 25, 2012 at 2:47)

i understand it may be an effort to save weight but that adds something to a frame that you shouldn't have to worry about. and on such a good looking bike why would you want to stretch a piece of inner tube across the frame?

general-lee (Nov 25, 2012 at 4:53)

It's identical to the one used on an Iron Horse Sunday, Zerode and countless other frames (maybe even your own). I'm surprised this is somehow a matter of concern. I've had lots of bike with this style gusset and it doesn't collect dirt or prove difficult to clean (notice in the video, spray it with a hose and it washes right out). Sometimes I must seriously question the sensibilities of some posts here. Just spray it with the hose and it's fine, gravity does the rest. That's if dirt is even in there in the first place since it is blocked by the seatube to begin with.

lenmerderdenfer (Nov 25, 2012 at 7:28)

I don't spray!

Treehugger84 (Nov 25, 2012 at 13:35)

Oh I see the gusset you're talking about now...that is a weird choice to leave that open. Can't think of a reason for it. I had been referring to the open chain/seatstay brace being open as opposed to the new V10c which is a solid carbon plate. Not sure how I misunderstood that Smile

hampsteadbandit (Nov 26, 2012 at 1:56)

@Treehugger84

the 'open' gusset simply shows the design engineer knows what he is doing, as anyone who knows K.S. will attest to Wink

'closing' that gusset by welding along the sides creates stress risers, adds weight (extra gusset plate area and weld rod) and extra heat (bigger HAZ) to the tube set, all of which are unwanted

what has surprised me more over the years, is the number of companies who DO fully weld their gussets for aesthetic reasons, which goes against proper engineering practise in terms of structural design

lenmerderdenfer (Nov 26, 2012 at 5:32)

@hampsteadbandit, More contact surface area is also a positive feature.

hampsteadbandit (Nov 26, 2012 at 10:02)

@lenmerderdenfer

its not, if you study engineering!!

welding the side faces of a structural gusset adds nothing but stress risers and extra weight, and weakens the welded junction by introducing more heat to the tube set, regardless of whatever heat treatment (typically T6) you apply post-weld

I did not spend 4 years at University building and testing prototype aluminium-alloy heat-treated full suspension frames for no-reason, just to be clear about this issue Wink

lenmerderdenfer (Nov 26, 2012 at 10:35)

@hampsteadbandit,

So are the "tubular" gussets on Specialized frames such as the Demo, among others, Engineering mistakes? I am in no way trying to be disrespectful-- Just asking.

Treehugger84 (Nov 26, 2012 at 11:48)

@hampsteadbandit

Ok, what you're saying makes sense and I'm glad you chimed in. I'm sure the gap that he has left between the tubing joint weld and the gusset is no mistake either. I can see the open gusset being beneficial because you could weld your tubes together and come in after the fact and add your gusset while keeping the gusset welds just the right distance away from the joint so that the two HAZs don't overlap. Pretty wise I must say.

hampsteadbandit (Nov 30, 2012 at 12:27)

@lenmerderdenfer

good point about the Specialized frames, that really surprised me when I first started selling them and noticed that gusset style, it went against everything I had been taught and seen on many frames

the point of not welding the right angle faces (fore and aft) of the gusset is that you introduce a stress riser (penetrating weld bead) into the tube exactly where you are trying to reinforce the welded junction. the function of the gusset is to add strength along the length of the tube, not cutting across the tube

I was taught about gusset design during my industrial design degree (focused on suspension frame design) starting way back in 1992; we were taught by a very respected mechanical engineer who had worked for Japanese Motorbike companies fabricating aluminium alloy road race bike chassis

you would see the correct gusset on early boutique brands like Turner and AMP, and its good to see that Keith (Banshee) knows his engineering and has followed this principle correctly

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Jamesb15uk (Nov 25, 2012 at 2:01)

That is one fun looking machine. Want want want. Shame Ive settled on a DH bike, an aggreive Ti hardtail and a steel DJ bike. No room or money for a full sus AM bike.

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Questrails (Nov 26, 2012 at 9:19)

This new version looks very interesting from banshee. The wheel options and head angle adjustment capability will make a big difference when riders are forced to choose a frame. The only issue I can find is the weight which is a standard problem for banshee. No weight listed on this write up can only mean one thing, heavy. Banshee makes extremely burly frames but at some point they will have to back off of the bomber over building campaign. This frame looks to me like a 7-8 pounder with or without air shock. The shock weighs almost nothing so they could easily shave weight on the rear end and headtube area. I respect the need to have a stiff rugged frame but other companies have accomplished this already and much lighter. I think the standard for 140-160 mm frames made of alu should be around 5-6 lbs. Still alot of ways to make it adjustable and stiff without adding soo much material. Just my 2 cents and I would consider a rune frame but know it on the heavy side.

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kieran (Nov 24, 2012 at 14:14)

Nice one Jon. Famous at last!

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KrackDC (Nov 24, 2012 at 13:36)

Im so tied between this and the Yeti SB66c... when will Banshee start working with carbon!!!!

EnduroManiac (Nov 25, 2012 at 10:17)

When will yeti start working on a bike showing descent geo (seat angle, BB height) with a real fork (36, lyrik, Deville...)? Otherwise the SB66 would be mine already.

bradwalton Plus (Dec 2, 2012 at 17:28)

My '11 160mm 36 Van has the same A-C as the '12 150mm 34 that came on my SB-66. The 2013 34 160mm is 1/2" taller A-C than both. None of this has anything to do with Yeti's geometry.

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jackdirtjumping7 (Nov 25, 2012 at 1:17)

THE RETURN OF THE KING IS HERE! Wink

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robandrews73 (Nov 24, 2012 at 17:35)

Man up and take the hits on your 26". A 29" isny that much quicker to make a difference to anyone other rhan racers, and advertising otherwise is wrong.See past the market trend, they just want you to spend more money! I challenge anyone on a 29er to get round a trail quicker than me on my 26" FSR Stumpy!

+ 11

groghunter (Nov 24, 2012 at 18:49)

Challenging random people on the internet... wow, how does it feel to win so hard?

NoahColorado (Nov 24, 2012 at 21:23)

Challenge accepted

rt76 (Nov 25, 2012 at 2:42)

I'll take you on! We won't prove anything coz I'm on 26" too but I reckon that's a fun day.

jfyfe (Nov 25, 2012 at 11:30)

Well I don't know you but I would beat my own time going from a 26" to a 29"er on an XC track. But the choice is up to you what you find to be the most fun. I myself ride a 26" from 2007 because I simply can't afford to keep up with all the changes.

shikokukichiguy (Nov 26, 2012 at 11:17)

My money's on Noah

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spyretto (Nov 24, 2012 at 15:11)

I made a promise, Mr Frodo. A promise. "Have the lime preproduction green as an available color"

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Camoguy1 (Nov 25, 2012 at 18:53)

I like my bottlerocket with the vividair and 160mm lyric. climbs sweet and rips the descent, and jumps great too.

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superbikes (Nov 25, 2012 at 3:08)

Something about this frame i just dont like. The rider in the vid did not look like he was haveing much fun mmmmmm dont know can not put my finger on it

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betsie Plus (Nov 24, 2012 at 13:38)

I love my do it all bike... she is a Nomad, but I have built a track that I have not yet done on her! So she aint do it all.... grrrr

betsie Plus (Nov 24, 2012 at 13:50)

Just watched the Video of the Banshee.... that is enough to convince me that this bike is not for me.
I hope it is the riders riding position and not the bike/frame that was forcing him to ride like that!
Seemed that he was scared to get over the front and take control of the front wheel to smash the trail.

Willie1 (Nov 24, 2012 at 14:11)

ITS TOO Slack, to keep up with marketing trends, not actual proper ride.

SintraFreeride (Nov 24, 2012 at 14:14)

Nah I think he just needs to ride a bigger frame size. That bike just looks too small for him which is why he is hanging off the back the whole time!

betsie Plus (Nov 24, 2012 at 14:18)

I thought it looked a little on the small side also.

spaced (Nov 24, 2012 at 16:34)

Willie it's not too slack. The steeper angles are for epic riding while slack angles are for park riding and endurance racing. Try riding the megaavalanche track and you will know why a 65deg makes sense.

Stralov (Nov 24, 2012 at 16:34)

hm... if u watch the presentation on vitalMTB the riders there are behaving in the same way. all the time over the back. dont know if its lack of skill or they all riding a too small frame... but i wanted to buy a rune and now im not sure due to your observation.
here: www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/Exclusive-First-Look-The-All-New-2013-Banshee-Rune,4150/Slideshow,0/bturman,109

spaced (Nov 24, 2012 at 16:37)

Maybe it's just one proto they were filming/shooting and the cockpit makes for a more rearward position. Though I don't understand why rearward is bad. Brendog, Brayton and a few others seem to be doing well with it in dh

Stralov (Nov 24, 2012 at 16:40)

they look so stiff. not really relaxed and in control. ... yeah but maybe they just have to make proper filming with a professional rider that can show the potential of the bike. and i think most of us wouldn't look different on the trail Wink

... but maybe i should just get an alutech fanes anyway. a bit cheaper for me in germany and already a proven design with great review scores. and definitely a do-it-all machine, too.

spaced (Nov 24, 2012 at 16:44)

They go relatively fast. Wait till Strahan gets one and we will have a stylish vid. Tha'ts just the marketing manager, not a pro rider.

Stralov (Nov 24, 2012 at 17:03)

aye. thats the point ... i still have to wait till next year. so still some time to think and reading reviews/watching videos.

letsgetit Plus (Nov 24, 2012 at 19:08)

Why is the CCDB facing different ways in the pinkbike vid than in the vital vid? In the vital vid, the rider on the yellow bike didn't have the shoulders for those wide bars at all. Fashion over function I suppose.

wallheater (Nov 24, 2012 at 19:50)

LOL burn ha ha.... You'd have to be a total m0ng to buy (or not) buy a bike based on a video. It's also pretty obvious that the vid flattens the trail somewhat.

VTwintips (Nov 24, 2012 at 20:50)

It looked like the trail wasn't very rocky and bumpy to me, but because of the way the bike was bouncing, it looked like the trail was a rock garden. Maybe the travel was set up more for big jumps and not for small impact absorption?

wallheater (Nov 24, 2012 at 23:32)

It doesn't matter what a trail LOOKS like on a video. I've RIDDEN a few feet behind that exact bike on a few DH runs and it seemed perfectly good to me. I'd catch up a bit on super rocky sections but I was on an old school Giant Glory that would knock a tree down if I rode into it.....

VTwintips (Nov 25, 2012 at 7:45)

So you are saying that the trail must have actually been really f*cking bumpy and we just couldn't see it from the video?

wallheater (Nov 25, 2012 at 9:08)

I'm saying (again) that one can't really comment on how a bike absorbs bumps on a video when one can't realistically tell how steep or bumpy the trail is in reality! The gnarliest trails in the world tend to look pretty straight forward on video. I'll also add that I do know that the suspension on that bike was tuned by arguably one of the best suspension shops around, and the days of 10 psi tyres, 40% sag and rebound cranked up to 11 are long gone. We don't have easy trails up here so riding a rocking horse sitting on a marshmallow just doesn't cut it. Man up and and absorb those fireroad pebbles with your body!

betsie Plus (Nov 25, 2012 at 9:59)

Spaced... you are right, that is just the marketing manager, not a pro rider..... so... this video is bad marketing.... what does that say for the marketing managers ability at managing marketing.... lol

wallheater (Nov 25, 2012 at 10:26)

I guess Ticket2RideBC won't be getting sponsored by Banshee any time soon eh Betsie? LOL etc....bitch bitch moan etc.....

spaced (Nov 25, 2012 at 11:41)

@betsie it is bad marketing. Banshee as a company never had good markerting. In most cases they started quality marketing well into production of their frames. As a marketing manager myself I find that surprising but that doesn't change the fact that the 2013 line looks killer and I love my legend.

betsie Plus (Nov 25, 2012 at 13:16)

The Legend is a nice looking bike, wondered how the BB raising under power feels on the trail, only ever tried one in the car park.
What to moan about next... the weather... nah, just got wet today. Smile

I love the idea of an adjustable bike, 1 bike to ride all the time.
I loved my first Full bouncer, the Marin Attack trail. Had the normal and alpine links.
Shame they never made a burlier version.

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taletotell (Nov 24, 2012 at 13:39)

I'll take it. I want to be able to convert to anything I need or want. I will just need a dorado fork so I can just throw the 650b wheels on there any time

Mishtar (Nov 25, 2012 at 7:05)

Xfusion 170mm Vengeance will take both wheel sizes.

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tomorrowillbeyou (Nov 24, 2012 at 14:06)

...One Bike to find them, One Bike to bring them all and in the darkness bind them. Ya, my nerd is showing, but GOD I WANT THIS FRAME!

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Mishtar (Nov 26, 2012 at 8:12)

Some close up shots here.
vimb.com/bboard/viewtopic.php?t=5016&start=20

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Canadmos (Nov 24, 2012 at 15:13)

Spitfire > Rune

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jshore1427 (Nov 25, 2012 at 12:33)

This is definitely what i want to ask santa for christmas

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freddy-b (Nov 25, 2012 at 2:14)

65degree headtube!?? This must be really good on the downs...

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pocketshepherd (Nov 27, 2012 at 2:30)

Been thinking about a do-it-all fully to go with my hardtail, I think this might be the one. It's so nice!

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Bashment (Nov 24, 2012 at 13:51)

wow thats one sweet bike like the 650b option (even if its a markeing scam :-) )

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GiantMan7 (Nov 24, 2012 at 13:32)

I must say, if this is one bike to rule them all, what about the Blck Mrkt Roam, as that is a 29er, 650b and 26er?

nostyle (Nov 25, 2012 at 4:06)

Is the Roam ready for Production, or is it still Prototype? Had lots of interrest but heard nothing of it again for over a Year now ...

GiantMan7 (Nov 25, 2012 at 8:37)

I'm not sure, maybe get in touch with Blck Mrkt and see what they say?

Stralov (Nov 25, 2012 at 10:01)

yeah. that framed looks nice and clean. i already asked them about a retailer fpr germany or anything about when the frame will be available. it was about mid year but no answer yet.

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PhoS (Nov 24, 2012 at 14:40)

Totally sweet frame, I guess my only question is.. Why isn't there a carbon option?

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triplezero (Nov 24, 2012 at 16:04)

I haven't even had my rune a year yet and they release this amazing new redesign. Grrrrr.......

Mishtar (Nov 25, 2012 at 7:04)

Well they do have a trade in system on going for a discounted price depending on your situation. Just talk to your shop.

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SintraFreeride (Nov 24, 2012 at 14:21)

Looks like a sweet bike. Like the 650b option and as well as the 65º HA

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GoRideYoBike (Nov 24, 2012 at 13:35)

Different wheel sizes is pointless. 26 to 27.5 is a simple marketing scam.

crazyoldcoot (Nov 24, 2012 at 13:47)

Not for rocky square-edged trails like where I ride in AZ. 29er really does roll over them much better. It's just too big for my taste, and the geometry trade-offs are too much. This one, with the perfect geometry that I am looking for, with 650b wheels, would ride like a dream for me! For other tail types I would agree with you. The crazy square-edged rocky trails behind my house, it's worth it in my opinion.

d-petrovic (Nov 24, 2012 at 13:49)

You obviously haven't ridden 650b then.

GoRideYoBike (Nov 24, 2012 at 13:50)

A 26'' wheel with a 2.3 inch tire has the same diameter as a 27.5'' wheel with a 2.0 inch tire.

nouseforaname (Nov 24, 2012 at 14:09)

Why would i want to go from a 2.3" tire to a 2.0" tire? Your argument is a flawed.

GoRideYoBike (Nov 24, 2012 at 14:14)

That fact was to point out that the difference between 26 and 650B is not that noticeable, certainly not enough to drastically affect performance. Honestly, if the difference in diameter is only equal to the difference in height volume from 2.0 to 2.3, why bother?

SintraFreeride (Nov 24, 2012 at 14:20)

The advantage of a 650b wheel is that it has larger diameter over the equivalent 26" tire combo AND it is lighter than the 26" equivalent in diameter eg: a 650b x 2.3 tire probably has the same diameter as a 26x2.6 tire but the wheel+tire will weigh less because the heaviest part of a wheel is the tire and not the rim.

GoRideYoBike (Nov 24, 2012 at 14:25)

Yessir. However, no one is going to run a 2.6'' tire. The point I was trying to make is that difference is not extremely significant between a 26 with 2.3 and a 650B with 2.3.

deeeight Plus (Nov 24, 2012 at 18:12)

#1 A 26 x 2.3 is about 26.5" diameter on average though that will depend on brand too. Continental tires are almost always TALLER in casign height and narrower in actual casing width than their claimed size. The ONLY 650B x 2.0 tire to exist currently, the Pacenti QuasiMoto is 27.1" in diameter. Most 650B riders however are running 2.3s which are 27.5" or more in diameter.

#2 The difference from 26er to 650B is not as noticeable a jump as 26er to 29er, but that's why it appeals so well to so many users. They don't NEED or WANT a 29er... but they're tired of being limited by 26ers. Think goldilocks... its not too small, its not too big... its just right.

#3 Exactly HOW much actual riding time do you have on 650B x 2.3 tires? or any 650B tires ?

crazyoldcoot (Nov 24, 2012 at 20:34)

What's with all the 650b bashing? Nobody is forcing you to buy it! I've rode all three, and yes it makes a difference. Saying that you can get the same diameter with a 26" and wider tires is ridiculous. The ride dynamics are totally different, and the weight difference is significant. Going to 29" doesn't make sense for me, since the wheels are weaker, the wheelbase is longer, and the geometry just isn't what I want. The 650b wheel size works better for the trails I ride. If you try one and disagree, then stick with the 26". Why dictate what's best for me?

dchill (Nov 25, 2012 at 5:14)

Deeight what are you talking about??? There are several 27.5 tires available right now, Schwable, Kenda, Maxxis in sizes from 2.0-2.35.

deeeight Plus (Nov 25, 2012 at 7:01)

When did I say there weren't any 2.35s ?! I said MOST 650B riders use 2.3s...because MOST 650B riders use the Pacenti Neo-Moto 2.3 as it was the first and thus far most widely produced.

Kenda is going to be the first other 2.0 offering, but not until 2013 models are shipping when they do a version of the Karma. But they're not available right now to anyone but OEM manufacturers.

dchill (Nov 25, 2012 at 7:34)

"The ONLY 650B x 2.0 tire to exist currently, the Pacenti QuasiMoto"

I guess I read this wrong.

will-burr (Nov 25, 2012 at 7:52)

Ahhh.. The internet fables spread by kids with no facts.
My first advice is to buy an accurate metric tape measure...

27.5" tires are 30.0mm larger in diameter than comparable 26" tires.
29" tires are 60.0mm larger in diameter than comparable 26" tires.

crazyoldcoot (Nov 25, 2012 at 9:19)

The new Pacenti Mega Moto is a 2.4". That's currently the largest 650b I know of. It has a diameter of 28", or 712mm. It is significantly larger in diameter than any 26" tire out there.

Look at this picture- farm8.staticflickr.com/7036/6810916652_cbf79f17df_b.jpg

The Mega Moto is on the left, the Neo Moto is in the center, and the quasi moto on the right. Saying that you will not feel a difference between it and a 26" tire is just plain incorrect.

nissmo127 (Nov 25, 2012 at 9:31)

I find it funny that people who are not even riding or have never ridden 650B are making assumptions/comparisons about 26 vs 27.5 vs 29.

I actually have the same bike(Santa Cruz Butcher) setup 26" and 27.5". I have the same wheels(Velocity P35 26' vs Velocity P35 27.5") with the same Kenda 2.35" tires as well as the same Saint brake rotors 203mmF 165mmR mounted to both sizes just so I could ride both back to back on the same trails within minutes of each other..........I'm not drinking the 650B Kool Aid (like so many did with 29er) I am actually testing and timing

SintraFreeride (Nov 25, 2012 at 12:11)

I look forward to hearing your thoughts @nissmo127 on your 26vs650b comparison.

nissmo127 (Nov 25, 2012 at 14:47)

@SintraFreeride So far I have been taking 5 run averages on timed climbs sprints and descents I am also wearing a HRM and logging on my garmin. I really wish I could throw a Quarq on it but I don't have a extra $2k for a crank...I posted a quick blog I my first initial rides

Questrails (Nov 26, 2012 at 20:14)

Thank god there someone else thinking exactly like me. That is right 26x2.3 same as 650x2.1. More rubber you have the better for traction and suspension. Are you forgetting about that added cushion large volume tires give. Running 650x2.3 same as 29 and going to give you bad geo and jumping characteristics as well as alot harder to manual. This only apply to tech riders that tend to jump large hits and dirt jumps. Your probably not going to see many riders in park with 650b huge wheels. Its the same for 4x4 and moto x, large tires on smaller rims give ultimate tracking. If you more about smooth long distance riding go for the 650. The hardcore riders not going to allow the proven 26 to die out. Companies are at the risk of loosing their whole audience over this one. They claim this is a search to find more speed. The 26 has gotten us here so why mess with that. Now the tracks are smoother and more manicured so that where the time difference comes from. Next year they building 650 b tracks and pounding chest we going soo much faster now lol. I have a few trails you not going to like on a big wheel 27-29. Start posting 26 only trail signs at whistler.

deeeight Plus (Nov 26, 2012 at 22:57)

@questrails... another person thinking wrong things and failing at math also doesn't make either of you right.

26 x 2.3s are NOT the same diameter or air volume as 650B x 2.1, nor is a 650B x 2.3 the same as a 29 by anything, well maybe a 29 x 1.9 in volume, but definitely not in diameter. They DO teach how to calculate volumes of cylinders in grade ten math in canada... have you made it that far yet?

650B are barely any more difficult to manual or jump than 26" wheels. Did you skip watching/reading any of the 2012 Redbull Rampage coverage? Logan Binggeli who placed third, did it with a final run that had TWO backflips during it, on the KHS 650B DH bike. Aaron Gwin announced in an interview a few weeks ago that he's already testing and will be racing select events next year on a tire size larger than 26" diameter... and Kirk Pacenti has already revealed that there are new 650B DH/AM tires from Bontrager... which would not have been made if Trek didn't plan to be adopting the wheels, and having their top rider using them.

Questrails (Nov 27, 2012 at 8:04)

You actually just proved my whole point. Small tweaks to any size is better suited for fashion students then mountain bikes. The fact is it really doesn't make a great difference what wheel size you have. Most riders I know suffer from this obssession of buying new parts in an effort to improve their riding skills. The answer to what is really faster lies in your brain not in your wallet. Feed the industry if that is what drives you as a rider. I already know what wheels are capable of, there is no mystery. People are dying to go faster than learn how to ride, or maybe its your bike slowing you down?

deeeight Plus (Nov 27, 2012 at 9:03)

Again proving you haven't ever actually ridden the bikes so you should really stop giving your opinion like its in any way based on actual facts. I've ridden 650B mountain bikes for FOUR years now. The advantages outweigh the disadvantages enough that I decided two years ago that other than a fat bike, I was not going to build myself another mountain bike in 26" wheel format ever again. And that was before the industry explosion of interest in them when there was a lot fewer options in terms of frames, forks and tires. In fact, had my girlfriend not given me a full suspension 29er frameset for christmas last year, I would not have built another 29er for myself ever again either.

nissmo127 (Nov 27, 2012 at 17:13)

@ Questrails"Running 650x2.3 same as 29 and going to give you bad geo and jumping characteristics as well as alot harder to manual."

You really have no idea what you are talking about...A 27.5"(650b) X 2.3 is nothing like running a 29"
A 29" is hard to manual mostly do to the BB drop usually 2+ inches below the axle
You can actually run a 27.5' X 2.3" with the exact same geo as a 26"
How do I know...because I just setup my butcher on 650B and my plan is to try them on my DH bike also.

Please see my blog on my initial thoughts of the conversion

Questrails (Nov 28, 2012 at 13:19)

Nobody is saying you shouldn't make 650b just don't try and force it on everyone. Its pretty clear the manufacturers have teamed up on this one and decided 650b is the revenue stream they have been looking for. It is all about revenue when you stop producing a standard and force people to switch to a new size. 26" wheels are the standard and the reason we here today on this website. Experimenting with different wheel sizes is one thing but to stop production is sending a message. They need money and trying to sell you on an idea such as go faster thru purchase of said 650b products. The best example of progress with minimal mechanical changes is bmx 20" bikes. Not much has changed over the years yet the riding continues to progress. If you at the auto shop you can buy 14" wheels to 22" wheels and tires and everything in between. Its called options for one's personal prefference. Ride whatever size you see fit lol. Where does it end? Next year they switch to 27" then its back to 26 3/8" then lets try 27.74" then i want to go real real fast so its 28" then i want to fit into some jumps so 25" is perfect for that.

deeeight Plus (Nov 28, 2012 at 17:00)

@Questrails... its obvious that its pointless discussing this with you and other close minded riders who want to keep living in the narrow time period where off-road bikes / mountain bikes only had 26" tires (nevermind the fact the sport pioneers wanted to use 700C or 650B off-road tires from europe which were better but next to impossible to source in california of the 1970s). Twenty six wheels are the standard for only one reason... tire availability. They were an inferior size format to what the designers WANTED to use, but they were available in sufficient numbers to move the sport from handbuilt custom bikes for enthusiasts to something that could be sold to hundreds of people. In practically every other sport/industry, changes and improvements are embraced by consumers... but not bicycles... here we have whiners and people moping and yearning for the good old days...

There is no conspiracy among manufacturers to sell people things that aren't needed...though there is a general acceptance around the industry that CONSUMERS and RACERS alike have woken up to the facts that the sport pioneers knew firsthand 40 years ago, and that is that twenty-six inch wheels should never have been adopted in the first place. They should have been a niche segment tire size, and that's it. All mountain bikes should have been built around a larger format from the start.

Its funny to me that on pinkbike, which tries to present itself as one of the most progressive forums for mountain biking, there are so many members who are so anti-everything that they'll do anything to get their way, even if that means slinging dirt at people/brands they previously praised because they're now leading the sport in a direction that these sheep don't want to follow.

Questrails (Dec 8, 2012 at 10:02)

Hey no kidding that is no surprise people can manual on a 29er. Guess what if you have decent bike skills it doesn't matter what size wheels you have. Aron gwin could race on 29x20" wheels and still win that doesnt mean anything. Dont fall for marketing campaigns that place top riders on any bike doing tricks and you fall for it every time. Hey look loggan bingwinny did a bunny hop on a 28.4 " wheel now I want one. They are under contract to push new products for their sponsor and not going to tell you the disadvantages of a product they trying to sell you on. Again its not about dont make big wheels its about dont stop producing the standard wheels and force people to switch everything out because thats called marketing not progressing. Give me 45" wheels and I can manual for miles and bunny hop over your car. Why because I have the bmx fundamentals. Any bike any size any time.

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MrMJM3 (Nov 24, 2012 at 14:54)

Where is the new 2013 Banshee Spitfire?

general-lee (Nov 25, 2012 at 0:06)

Check back to Vital in a few weeks. Wink wink

nostyle (Nov 25, 2012 at 4:01)

My german Distributor told me yesterday that my 2013er Spitfire is on it´s way - so excited and happy to be on another Banshee for the next Years!
Really love the new Banshee-Design. Geometry is spot-on, the adjustability and 650B-Option is outstanding at the moment and the first Riding-Impressions of some Customers gave huge Praises to the KS-Link.

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rednova (Nov 24, 2012 at 14:00)

I have mine ordered!

Willie1 (Nov 24, 2012 at 14:12)

Let us know if you get it before 2014!!!!

zenis (Nov 24, 2012 at 14:23)

I have ordered mine as well, size large, black ano colour and can't wait to have it

jimeg (Nov 24, 2012 at 17:46)

It's anodized, not powder coated?

general-lee (Nov 24, 2012 at 23:55)

@Willie: I was at the factory last week. The first Rune production run was done and shipping. They'd already started production and assembly of another new model which you'll be hearing about shortly. So yeah, he'll be seeing it long before 2014

nostyle (Nov 25, 2012 at 4:09)

Some Customers have received their Runes already. The next Batches Runes and Spitfires are shipped now to be expected in Dezember (2012) :-).

Mishtar (Nov 25, 2012 at 7:01)

Black is Ano, Blue is powder Coated and the Silver is polished and clear coated. I am just waiting on my FD to arrive then I should have mine built up. Went with the polished, CCDB and throwing on a 2012 55 RC3 EVO TI.

Willie1 (Nov 25, 2012 at 10:05)

@ general-lee- My experience a couple years ago was hearing the exact same BS- We're currently shipping- you'll have it in a few weeks. What a waste of my time. Too bad you couldn't get it together then, or at least compensated me for the hassles. Several times, Banshee claimed the frame was shipped, but when I asked for the shipping number, the replies stopped. I shouldn't have to e-mail 20 times over 6 months to try to get information on where my frame is when I have been waiting months already and it was supposedly shipped already.

Its too bad because I really like this frame, but Banshee left me high and dry twice in two years.

rednova (Nov 25, 2012 at 16:48)

My buddy will have his frame next week and mine should arrive in Canada 1st week in Dec.

general-lee (Nov 25, 2012 at 19:12)

@Willie - What do you mean by "you couldn't get it together then?" I have nothing to do with Banshee or with your past issues. Sorry to hear you had problems a few years ago, but don't assume everyone is going to have the same experience. But then the internet self-selects for pissing and moaning so I shouldn't be surprised...

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cmdrvoodoo (Nov 26, 2012 at 8:32)

So how long did 29 inch wheels last, 2 years?

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mprosper (Nov 25, 2012 at 21:44)

And I thought I rode all mountain

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monkeykidd14 (Nov 24, 2012 at 13:34)

I think, considering the layout of the pivot: if i wanted a better and similar bike them it would have to be the Yeti SB66!

betsie Plus (Nov 24, 2012 at 13:44)

I know people with the SB66.
It seems to work best with a shorter fork (140-150mm), people who have ridden it with a 160mm fork, tend to change to a shorter fork to make it work on the climbs.
I tried one and thought it was very very nice, it had a 150mm fork on it.

schnecor000 (Nov 24, 2012 at 14:01)

i would have a transition covert 2013.

FRguild (Nov 24, 2012 at 17:01)

This makes me laugh.

dchill (Nov 25, 2012 at 5:08)

It's amazing how many people like Transitions crappy sp. the Banshee is nice but for the price I would spend a little extra and get an Intense Tracer 2. A hand made in the USA frame

nobrain (Nov 25, 2012 at 10:17)

Cher compatriote,
Few question :
- DU Bushing on shock yes but you should read why ( almost no rotation)
-Cheap pivot hardware. have you get a banshee frame in you hand? ( The legend is probably the only DH frame with TI axle hardware)
-Price point are you kidding ??,
-aesthetics Sorry I'm laughing but such comment coming from someone riding without jersey over his chest protector THIS IS UNFINISHED!

You guys must have a closer look to the frame, riding it instead of car park testing before talking crap...

general-lee (Nov 25, 2012 at 23:08)

@dchill Don't let the flag fool you, I'm 100% American born and bred (living in TW), but what is so much better about handmade in US vs handmade in Taiwan? Don't make the mistake of assuming that just because it's made overseas it is somehow automated and lower quality.

dchill (Nov 26, 2012 at 3:56)

General I am not going to say because it is made in the USA it is better. There are many nice frames welded overseas. I would just rather support American workers and it is only $150 more. I also find the VPP2 to be a good all around platform. Just my personal preference
Banshees are very nice and would love to try a Legend or Spitfire.

lenmerderdenfer (Nov 26, 2012 at 5:21)

@Nobrain, Is it not better to ride well than to be fashionable? The protection takes the nasty hits before my shirt gets ripped up. This sounds logical to me. Anyway, My T-shirts are now older and I also ride with my T-shirt on the outside with a snugger fitting D3O underneath. I've thrown wrenches at Banshee bikes before and I don't like the pivot hardware as the bearing race is still visible and susceptible to more moisture and dust infiltration. Lastly, Banshee's 2 year warranty is just too short for me. I have paid less for lifetime warranties and 5 year warranties on products that are second to none.

bradwalton Plus (Dec 2, 2012 at 17:40)

Have to agree with dchill- where it's made has nothing to do with quality, it's just about investing your money into your own country.

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helmetless2 (Nov 27, 2012 at 3:43)

SALUPLIDOMINIMAL! I love this song lol

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hamncheez (Nov 27, 2012 at 11:32)

650b in the rear, then slap on a 140mm 29er front end? Anyone?

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highlandrider3 (Nov 24, 2012 at 13:39)

this is gorgeous.

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MikeLadurner (Nov 26, 2012 at 11:36)

i saw better promo videos but the bike looks nice.

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aerox1982 (Nov 25, 2012 at 3:02)

www.pinkbike.com/news/Zerode-G-1-Gearbox-DH-Frame-2012.html

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Below threshold threads are hidden

lenmerderdenfer (Nov 25, 2012 at 1:54)

Really? This bike is a joke! $1,999 for a frame with unfinished gussets, nearly inaccessible points to clean around the lower pivot point, a DU bushing interface and cheap pivot hardware, truly call Banshee's price point into question! Sorry! That's right the 3/4ths of an inch is so very worth all the other shortcomings. Banshee of all people should also note that a company is (singular).

jaame (Nov 25, 2012 at 2:38)

It looks quite low tech for the price.

lenmerderdenfer (Nov 25, 2012 at 7:20)

To all PB users, Come out from behind your negative props and say something! I believe that a comment should be a prerequisite for placing negative or positive props.

nostyle (Nov 25, 2012 at 8:58)

Hmmm ... aesthetics is somehow personal, but: I truly believe the price point is great, as always with Banshee. These "unfinished" Gussets were ok on Ironhorse or older Turners, they are ok on Banshees now. How can you judge the pivot hardware being cheap? And where is the "low tech"?

superbobob (Nov 25, 2012 at 9:14)

Sérieux, tu veux qu'on commente les dires d'un gars qui s'appelle "l'emmerdeur d'enfer" ?!
Don't feed the troll they say.

lenmerderdenfer (Nov 25, 2012 at 9:56)

It's called sarcasm! Don't walk blindly throughout your life.

martins (Nov 25, 2012 at 10:19)

The KS pivot Banshee frames run bearings now, DU bushings are gone. I've got a Prime and the pivot hardware is well made and solid, no different than most other companies. Don't get the comment on unfinished gussets, they are no different than many other companies. I agree that there is a bit of a mud trap on the lower pivot above the bb, but it doesn't keep the mud in contact with the bearings. There is a drawing for a home made deflector on the Prime discussion board on mtbr that helps for your location if mud is an issue.

lenmerderdenfer (Nov 25, 2012 at 10:24)

Thank you for your comment!

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ninjatarian (Nov 24, 2012 at 15:51)

Sweet looking bike and design but... 65* in the slackest setting? Typical bike industry move, take a good thing and over-do it. 67*-68* seems pretty ideal for the 150mm-170mm segment, I run my Uzzi in the steepest setting and it keeps it nice and nimble. In the 66* setting it feels slugish and like I'm just holding on while it plows into crap. I couldnt Imagine 65* on a bike like that. I like the rest of it though, dropouts and all are neat.

spaced (Nov 24, 2012 at 16:32)

68deg for a 150-170mm bike? Are you shitting me? If your uzzi was too sluggish at 66 you either wasn't riding fast enough or you didn't need that big of a bike. I'm not a fan of going overly slack, never got 64 deg park bikes or 61 deg dh bikes but 68 isn't slack even for a 100mm trailbike. My current tralbike is 140/100mm and it is around 67deg (was 66.7 with old fork) and it rode amazingly. Not sluggish at all because the weight and travel were setup properly to the terrain.

pinehillbikeshop (Nov 24, 2012 at 17:01)

If it is too slack then run a 650b rear wheel with a 26'' front wheel and a 120mm fork.

ninjatarian (Nov 24, 2012 at 17:08)

@pinehillbikeshop- Why would you run a large wheen on the back and small on the front? Thats straight up backwards.

@spaced- look at slope bikes, they run 68-69 head angles all day long. Running the Uzzi in the 67* setting makes it nice and nimble, feels like a plush slope style bike. I think people are just too worried to get high centered at speed and plow instead.

pinehillbikeshop (Nov 24, 2012 at 17:17)

It was a joke Ninja.

ninjatarian (Nov 24, 2012 at 17:40)

lol, gotcha.

tetonlarry (Nov 24, 2012 at 17:56)

I think the adjust-ability from 65 to 66 degrees on the Rune is perfect. Uzzi's are notoriously steep.

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- 10

khndsasre (Nov 24, 2012 at 13:34)

SSOOO GAY

taletotell (Nov 24, 2012 at 13:43)

? How so? Seems like a good idea to me.

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THE-GUNT (Nov 25, 2012 at 11:57)

2K ? HAHAHA Over priced

KrackDC (Nov 25, 2012 at 19:09)

Not at all

nostyle (Nov 26, 2012 at 4:38)

Hmmm ... overprized?
On the other hand more and more are shouting for Carbon and are willing to pay additional 500-800 or even more - I assume that would be greater Value?
Rune with CCDB Air is under 1800 Euros, with Fox CTD under 1700 Euros - sounds really fair to me ...

zenis (Nov 26, 2012 at 13:13)

If you head the old Rune you can upgrade it as I did with mine and it costed me only £850 for the frame with shox, two dropouts, headset and black anodized colour which costs more, bargain Razz

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Xc2dh1 (Nov 24, 2012 at 13:56)

I'd take the new carbon Covert.

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Matt-W (Nov 24, 2012 at 15:55)

this frame = jack of all trades, master of none.

larryssman7 (Nov 24, 2012 at 16:50)

is that a actual saying or does the next lyric go: look at the world through your smiling eye and laugh at the devil as his train goes by?

rt76 (Nov 25, 2012 at 2:59)

It's an actual saying.

Matt-W (Nov 25, 2012 at 14:11)

it means that if you trade being exceptional at one thing for being ok at everything, you will always be surpassed by a specialist.

THE-GUNT (Nov 28, 2012 at 11:44)

What do you mean if I head the old Rune? Hahaha
Banshee is awesome for doing that with the old frames.

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