Cane Creek - Ask Us Anything

Oct 17, 2012 at 7:52
Oct 17, 2012
by Richard Cunningham  
 
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Thanks for all questions, that's all for now! The staff at Cane Creek are heading home

Pinkbike and Cane Creek partnered up to launch the first episode of 'Ask Us Anything' - a live question-and-answer session that links bike industry manufacturers to you so that you can get the story directly from the source. This is no limp-wrist link to some Joe Blow in Customer Service who agreed to skip lunch. Ask Us Anything offers a rare opportunity to communicate with the suspension tuner, product engineer and marketing hack who actually created the product or service that you are asking about. For one day only, everyone at Cane Creek will drop what they are doing to personally explain anything that relates to the products that they make.


Introducing the Cane Creek Cast

Cane Creek Staff 2012


How 'Ask Us Anything' Works
Type your question into the 'Comments' box at the bottom of this page and Cane Creek's staff will answer it directly below. Feel free to direct your question to a specific person. Every question and answer will be published for all to see, so you may want to scan previous comments to see if the information that you seek has already been posted.

Helpful tips:
• Try to stay on point. Ask one question at a time and follow your question with a brief context about the situation, so that the folks at Cane Creek can give you a specific reply. For example: if your question is about a headset fit-up issue, include the brand and model of the frame and also of the fork. If your question is about suspension tuning, then follow up with information about your bike, your riding style, your previous setup and your weight.

• Try to keep your questions to about 200 words or less

• Ask Us Anything is a service to PB readers who are seeking helpful information, not a forum to broadcast opinions or grievances. If you do have a negative issue that you want to ask about, no worries, just keep your complaint relevant and in the context of a question so that it can be addressed in a productive manner.

• Use the comment propping to upvote questions you care about, and downvote the bad.

Cane Creek hero

Who better to help you wade through the hundreds of headset combinations available, or answer your questions about dialing in the Double Barrel than the people who design, repair and sell them?



About Cane Creek:
Cane Creek is an employee-owned company of 35 people in Fletcher, North Carolina, who ride what we make. Our goal is to foster, develop, and provide innovative solutions that enhance the cycling experience and make them the very best that they can be. This reflects what is truly important to us as an organization. This could mean better performance, enhanced features, superior quality and durability, proprietary tools and programs that enhance the rider experience, or excellent customer service. At the end of the day, you can expect the best from us.


Everyday help at Cane Creek can be found here.
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671 Comments

  • + 113
 Do you guys plan to ever produce a fork or fork cartridge based off of the Double Barrel damper? And could that technology even be applied to a fork?
  • + 8
 I've always wondered if this would happen.
  • + 159
 Yes. Our long-term strategy is to fill out our product line to include forks. It is our intent to incorporate Double Barrel technology in all of our suspension products.
  • + 51
 Wow, thanks for answering! That wasn't the answer that I was expecting, but the one I was hoping for. Looking forward to seeing it.
  • + 18
 What is it that you would like to see in a fork from Cane Creek?
  • + 25
 i hope to see a nice 150mm or so freeride fork, any chance?
  • + 68
 I'd love to see a Downhill fork from you guys.
  • + 66
 An air sprung trail fork with a 20mm thru-axle that offers the same adjustments as your rear shocks, please. No funny three-level damper adjustments that aren't required, no complicated travel adjustment feature, and a competitive weight. Damping in a closed cartridge (or sealed within the stanchion tube) so that the lowers can be dropped for a cleaning and fresh lube without having to jump into doing a damper service. Plenty of low-speed compression damping range.

Do you have functioning prototypes at this point, be it a full fork or a cartridge that is being tested in another brands chassis?
  • - 15
 A whole range of forks that competes with Fox, Rockshox etc at a price we can afford. When I say 'competes' what I mean is equal to or better than for less money
  • + 26
 I would like to see both a 200mm coil full crown fork and an 170-180mm Enduro/Freeride coil fork.
  • - 4
 A downhill fork that compete's with the other top brands and comes in a variety of designs and colours.... And, if possible, cheaper then Fox or Rockshox
  • + 3
 a coil downhil fork that doesn't have a ridiculous weight penalty.
  • + 0
 Something for FR bikes, single crown 190mm fork. Sth like Travis 203 SC was, but with open oil bath and better damping.
  • + 11
 I would like to see a set of Cane Creek 200mm dual crown upside down forks... like the old school marzocchi shivers
  • + 8
 I would love to see a downhill fork. Air and coil options.
  • + 15
 another vote here for inverted. double barrel USD would probably be the most amazing fork ever.
  • + 15
 A top of the line DH fork. Its a bit much for people to ask for it to be better and cheaper. That doesn't make any sense. I would just want to see it function better, the price will be what it is.
  • + 9
 yeh a 150 or 160mm for the AM rig would be perfect to match the CCDBA when i get one . . .
  • + 3
 200mm single crow fork like the old Manitou Travis... these were good times...
  • + 6
 I second the 150 - 160mm AM fork and add in a vote for 650B
  • + 8
 It might be a better start to just make cartridges for something like a 35 mil boxxer fork first
  • + 11
 A 34mm stanchion 150mm trail fork and a 36mm stanchion 160mm AM fork.
  • + 3
 Short travel dirt jump fork, compression damping control to soften up for playing about on trails
  • + 7
 I agree that a short travel dirt jump fork would be a great addition to the suspension market and a good move by Cane Creek if they were going to enter the fork game. However you'd have to make it affordable in order to outsell Rock Shox and Fox (whose DJ forks are overpriced in my opinion). In the process of making it affordable you'd have to limit the amount of technology that goes into it, thus all but eliminating the use of any proprietary internal suspension technology that you might want to implement (such as the Double Barrel technology), which would actually be fine because pretty much all DJ and street riders want is a 20mm axle, rebound and high speed compression adjustment.
  • + 8
 Yet another vote for an inverted dh slider. A solidly-built, well-damped USD fork would be amazing. And (incidentally) could be marketed to fill 26", 650b and 29" wheels if a travel limiter was incorporated.
  • + 12
 I would love for CC in the short term to take the Lyrik chassis and make the damping match the DB/ DBair whether this uses a retrofit cartridge system or open system as it currently is im not fused. Later make their own fork in the same vein and offer it with a 1.5 steerer not just taper and 1.1/8 and with a full range of drop out options.

Final thing, please just make a reliable dropper and show everyone else how its done. total CC convert since getting my DB air
  • + 9
 an inverted DH fork!
  • + 3
 A 200 mm coil sprung downhill fork with the same adjustments like the DB and in the same weightclass like a Boxxer R2C2 Smile . Please!
  • + 10
 -200mm downhill fork, air and coil, inverted only if logical, with settings that can allow you to get an actually linear curve if wanted
-170mm air sprung fork with travel adjust, A2C of a 160mm fork, 36mm stanchions
-150mm air sprung fork with travel adjust, 34mm stanchions, 29er availability
-a super light 100mm for the xc boys, 29er availability
+no tools needed adjustments
  • + 0
 Multiple wheel size options.
adjustability
lockout/ increased compression mode +blowoff
Lightweight/stiff
Air sprung
  • - 2
 I feel like a good way to start a ridiculous question like that, Sam would be by spelling the product correctly. I mean, its not all that tricky is it..
  • + 3
 A trail fork with 140mm- 160mm travel 15mm QR. Fixed travel or internally adjustable. The same adjustability as your shocks.
Fox and Rock Shox refuse to give us much in the way in adjustability, and keep shoving crap like CTD down our throats. That only work well on certain suspension types.

When can we expect a fork from you?
  • + 7
 I think you know as well or better than us that a "full" fork line right now looks pretty daunting. The crazy degree of splitting that marketing has imposed on riding (DJ/4X ≠ XC ≠ trail ≠ AM ≠ enduro ≠ FR), plus three totally viable wheel diameters, plus legacy stuff (e.g. 9 mm QR) plus redundant stuff (e.g. 15QR vs. 20 thru -- the idea that these two are "optimized" for different riding is laughable--the wheelsets may be, the forks may be, but the axle, c'mon, pick one). Instead of trying, like Fox or Rockshox, to have a line of 30+ products and try to save $ by hiding common parts inside, let the retailers and end users enjoy the benefit of fewer SKUs by making a few forks that really are great for a breadth of riding. Something like the Fox 36 RC2 but aimed at the middle (enduro), but everyone knows it's tough enough for freeride, adjustable down to ~100 mm for DJs, light enough for racing any discipline but high-level XC, and BFD if it's not the lightest. You can't please everyone. You have a lot of cred right now from the double barrel, if you pay someone fast and famous to ride a decent fork (upside down would be great), people will believe the torsional issues are fixed and they will buy it.
  • + 2
 something to compete with the 36/ lyrik level, maybe with a tall enough crown to allow a 650b wheel
  • + 1
 something that is stiff light and responsive a fork that has a one pieced machined upper and steerer tube (xfusion) travel ranging from 4 to 8.5 inchess would be nice to see a whole line up with tapered steerers and straight .
  • + 0
 o and maybe some open bath type systems
  • + 1
 Snfoilhat, thanks for adressing this, I could'nt agree more.15QR vs. 20 thru, has pissed me off since the day I first stumbled across it. Who ever introduced 15QR should be banned from designing bike parts. 20 thru made my DH rig rule and my XC bike more fun, no one has anything to gain from, or being a weenie!
  • - 2
 where did my comment go?
  • + 2
 As much as I would like to scream 200mm DH fork...

For starting a new fork line, personally I think you should make a 120mm fork to begin with, more people ride XC then DH and it would be a good way to get some feedback, especially if (when) you can get a pro rider on it. You can work out the bugs, get some serious ride time on them and since XC is more popular, maybe even a market, then branch out into longer forks so you can keep finding and removing bugs and figure out how to keep the fork stiffness at longer travels (I don't even know if this is a thing you have to perfect, but RS and Fox keep going on about how their new model of fork is stiffer, so I assume it is.).

But I know nothing
  • + 2
 I have to throw in a vote for the creation of a fork of which covers all terrain.

I know that "all terrain" sounds cliche, but a bike that is further evolved from the specialized enduro evo or the trek slash, each of which are coined as all mountain bikes today. I envision a bike that is able to pedal long distances well all the way up and across everything. I want to be able to ride from my house in the city for 50 miles then rock down a mountain side with a bike that can take hits and is comfy jumping and agile to control.

What I'm getting at is i'd like to see about a 150 to 180mm fork that can handle a downhill run, but is light: that idea has been beaten to death with a stick already, but your double barrel tech may be what evolves this truly do-it-all-mountain rig.

Sean
  • + 1
 I would love to see a 180mm Freeride fork. So I could really have a "Cane-Creeked-Out" ride.
  • + 5
 180mm Single Crown with 40mm stanchions,through axle of course. Call it The Wyatt Earp.
  • + 1
 Why was this comment " below threshold"?
[Reply]
  • + 29
 Wow - you guys are on it! Good morning or afternoon as the case may be!
  • + 21
 Not a question but massive props for doing this.
  • + 3
 Holly: I need your help! Leave it to the Marketing Director to shamelessly exploit you...20 more likes and we get to 10k on our Facebook page...what a day! Oh and did I mention, when we get to 10,110 - we'll be giving away 10,110-series headsets! www.facebook.com/pages/Cane-Creek-Cycling-Components/124691776683
  • + 1
 @Holly Like #10,028. in another part of this thread there is a call for internships - is this for design/engineering only or for marketing/biz/etc as well? (If so, my resume is winging its way to NC). Thanks!
  • + 2
 Holly: We made it - thanks - that'll come in handy when I hit up the boss for that raise.
  • + 2
 An inverted fork, which needs little service and is easy to adjust and has plenty if adjustment would be able to easily compete with all the other forks on the market. I think Canada needs a new dh fork the just rock shock, fox, manitou and marzocchi
  • + 2
 please... make a downhill fork that would compete with the fox 40, the manitou dorado, and the rockshox boxxer... but NOT in price. a sweet 203mm dual crown under 1500 bucks would be nice
  • + 1
 usually small outfits can't afford to cut the price and keep up quality. If they made a DH fork $100 more than a fox 40 it would be a good deal.
[Reply]
  • + 18
 Can i just say that this is an amazing thing for a company to do. direct feedback between companies and consumers is getting rare in this industry, and these posts really do wonders. I thoroughly support you guys, You make THE best headsets in the game, and hopefully I'll be in a position to try out one of your shocks soon. Keep it up!
  • + 4
 Holly: We were honored when Pinkbike brought the idea to us and have been even more amazed by everyone's response! Now...my wheels are turning and my new goals is to convince the guys to do Live Chats in The Lounge ( www.canecreek.com/products/suspension/lounge ) just like this. MUUHAHAHA!....whoops I think Josh just passed out.
[Reply]
  • + 20
 When is the 1 1/8 angleset going to be available?
  • + 1
 I agree. I'd love to slacken my MC.
  • + 7
 There wouldn't be enough space in a 1.1/8 headset for the steerer to go at a certain angle
  • + 1
 Yeah I started to think that after I commented.
  • + 2
 There might be enough room if the headset bearings were external as opposed to internal and have a much larger inner race diameter than would otherwise be required. It might look a bit funny, though, not to mention a high stack height (which wouldn't be an issue considering how many spacers people run under their stems).
  • + 3
 sure stack height might increase but a small price to pay.. most old DH bikes could use an Angleset to keep geometry more updated because lets face it old DH bikes are just really built tough and the common reason people are not using them anymore is outdated geometry..
  • + 2
 I believe CC did make a 1 1/8" (EC34) angleset but didn't release it to the public.

dirt.mpora.com/news/dirt-exclusive-1-18-angleset-campaign.html
  • + 9
 Holly: It is possible to incorporate our AngleSet design within an 1 1/8 headtube. Were still in the process of evaluating whether there is enough market demand to move forward with the project.
  • + 4
 So is the 1 1/8 headset going to be released to the public? I sure would buy 1.
  • + 2
 I'd certainly buy one and I'm sure there'd be many more like me who would. Pretty sure the head angle for my bike is 67 so slackening that even by a little would make a big difference. Not only do I love my bike but I also don't have the money for a new one with up to date geometry. I wouldn't be the only one either.
  • + 1
 Also interesting in an 1-1/8th angleset (even though my Hope headset is like brand new ...) ! Might get 2 ... but the hardtail has an integrated headtube ...
  • + 0
 Regarding a straight 1 1/8" AngleSet: What's the max change in HT angle one could expect from such a component? I offer that it would be about as minimal as the potential market. What say you, Cane Creek?
  • + 2
 www.workscomponents.co.uk/full-headsets---most-common-sizes-10-c.asp

The works components headsets do what is required, not frills, they just work.
  • + 1
 Didn't want to post that until the question period was over. Thought it would be the proper etiquette. That said, I have one on the way for my wife's V-10.3.
  • + 1
 the works headset is brilliant, I have 2 of them.
  • + 2
 Holly: sngltrkmnd....1 degree.
  • + 1
 Again Sam? Really?
[Reply]
  • + 16
 Alright everyone - we are out of here! Thanks so much for spending the day with us - its been fun. Time for a coldie! Chris, Josh, Jim, Holly, Malcolm, Gary, Eric & Nick
[Reply]
  • + 12
 Hello cane creek staff, I have been drawn to the bike industry for quite some time, and in conjunction with an interest in engineering I've decided that i would love, if anything, to be working in the industry as a professional engineer. What sort of professional degrees or training do your engineers have and what is expected at other companies more specialized in frame design, (trek, specialized, etc.)?
  • + 48
 All of our engineers have PhD.'s in nuclear physics. That is kinda the price of entry for an engineer in the cycling industry.
  • + 17
 Jim: In all seriousness though, you'll want some kind of mechanical engineering degree. Experience with Solidworks or ProE/Creo is a must and for the frame guys some FEA knowledge would be good. I myself have a BS in mechanical with lots of SW experience and several years of bike shop wrenching under my belt. Josh also has a BS in mechanical engineering with a masters degree and part of a PhD on top of that. He's literally a rocket scientist. I think the biggest thing if you want to be in the industry is to get some decent credentials and then just continue being passionate about bikes. Trust me, we do this because we love it, not for the money.
  • + 1
 ^Sweet! So do you guys machine prototypes yourselves in the shop? i.e. does/can the designer then go on to fabricate the prototype themselves? Would pretty much be my ideal job...
  • + 8
 Jim: Lurchh, you'll often find one of our engineers out on the floor making chips. I'm not going to lie, it's pretty awesome.
  • + 1
 Wow, sounds awesome!
  • + 3
 Thanks for the reply, got a laugh out of me.
  • + 1
 hey, i am 18 and also would love to work in the bike industry, but i would be more interested in suspension design however it is a very specific market in my opinion. what would i have to do to get into this area after doing a undergraduate in mechanical engineering? do you need a post graduate?
thanks for any info.
Marcel
  • + 2
 When are you guys hiring? I graduate in June with a BSME, personally I feel I am strongest in Machine design, as well as hands on machine shop work. Should end up with a FEA class by the time I graduate also.
  • + 1
 Holly: Its exciting around here - check our website for employment posts: www.canecreek.com/culture/employment
  • + 2
 I'm still in high school, so this info is perfect for me because working in the biking industry is my dream, so now I know what I'll have to do to fulfill the dream
  • + 1
 If you're still in HS, I'd say get a part time job at a LBS. I wish I had experience like this, because it seems to be one of the easiest ways into the industry. Certainly helps to have that experience.
  • + 2
 Jim: LBS experience is a big help!
  • + 1
 i already do work in my LBS, and planning to do a course on suspension service from toxoholics (fox center in germany like mojo for UK).
but no one has answerd my question from CC Frown
what university degree do you normaly need to work in designing suspension and dampening systems?
and what should you do after having that degree?
  • + 1
 Jim: Xfighter, see my response above. Suspension and damper design would fall into Mechanical Engineering. After that degree try your hardest to get a job doing it...experience is the best teacher by far.
  • + 1
 I can tell you that an ME degree will have you taking classes that deal with springs, damping, etc among many other classes.
  • + 2
 Josh: Don't forget thermodynamics, heat transfer, and good old fashion coding.
  • + 1
 Should i get this or the van rc
[Reply]
  • + 10
 I would love to see a dropper seatpost from Cane Creek. Have you guys ever considered this? I also just saw that you mentioned electrical engineering in one of your answers - how about a battery operated post that cycles up and down on its own?
  • + 4
 Holly: Thanks for the idea Spiffy!
[Reply]
  • + 9
 Question for Jim: Why did you leave a life of sex,drugs and rock&roll as the lead man for the Doors to work as a design engineer? Being an engineer, I know you're no longer getting any of those.

Many thanks. And rock on.
  • + 58
 Jim: Good question Sarcastic, I found the lifestyle of a '60s rockstar to be too bland for my liking. After much self reflection and a near death experience I chose the life of a bicycle engineer in western NC because as you know it's pretty much all loose women and free blow for the Lizard King.
  • - 4
 off topic but i too am from western NC. go catamounts!
[Reply]
  • + 8
 One of the biggest problems I've had with air shocks is that I'm a lanky git weighing in at like 230lbs, and that's before I don riding gear and day pack. All previous experiments with rear shocks especially leaves a lot to be desired because I have to ramp the pressure way up thus losing a lot of small bump sensitivity, Now, I haven't actually tried the DB air, but I'd like to know if your design process of an air shock takes in consideration of someone my size and if you have any other thoughts. I normally run coil over shocks now as I get the feeling I'm after (I do XC, Enduro and DH riding) but always think I could be missing out on the air shock experience.
  • + 2
 Chris: The beauty of the DB Air is that the high- and low-speed compression and rebound are independent of the air can. Similar to the Coil, while you set the preload (sag) on the spring (air can), the adjustability is in the damper, the closed oil circuits.

We've tested the DB Air on a variety of bikes and under a variety of riders (XC geeks to National-level downhill racing), and while we can't address your setup specifically, we can tell you that it's unquestionably the most adjustable shock on the market, and would likely be able to be tuned to meet your needs. Have you checked out the Suspension section of our web site for more information? www.canecreek.com/products/suspension Thanks for the question!
  • + 2
 Dude i share your pain, im 5'9" and weigh 9 stone, shocks have always been way to stiff resulting in having to mess with the tuning to get a good feel or way too soft in the mid stroke meaning i have to bang the pressure up and as you say lose small bump compliance.

My advice: buy a DB air, works absoultly amazing once its dialed, and even when its not its blown all previous shocks ive had out of the water. no blowing through travel ala rp23, no crap midstroke ala dhx air/ swinger and unlike the coil shocks ive owned i can get the spring rate correct. It is steep on the price but worth every penny for the ride quality. My beloved lyriks which i always thought were the best piece of gear on my bike now feel like they came off an apollo in comparion.
  • + 6
 Jim: BigTim, the response from Chris above of course rings true with regard to damping and as you may know our shocks are well known for their exceptional lack of stiction which contributes to their low-speed sensitivity. But I read you question to be with regard to the spring itself so I will try to speak directly to that. I will start by saying that I think that your observances regarding coil and air feel are without regard to your impressive stature. Coil springs and air springs are inherently different.

Coil springs will typically be more sensitive for two reasons. The first is that you don't have all the extra seals associated with an air spring so a lot of friction goes out the window right there. The other reason is that you can more easily vary the force required to get the correct sag (preload) and the rate of the spring. In the other words you could achieve the correct sag with a high spring rate and very little preload or a lower spring rate and more preload. In the first case you would lose sensitively because the spring force would increase quickly once you pass the sag point. In the second case you gain low-speed sensitively while perhaps compromising bottom-out resistance. Either way, the point is that preload and spring rate can be varied independently.

With air springs you of course lose some sensitivity due to the friction of the air seals but you also lose the ability to tune preload independently of spring rate. This is because most if not all air shocks on the market have a negative spring that charges automatically. More negative pressure is like less preload. When we design the negative spring charging port we try to hit the optimum location for the most sensitivity but since you cannot vary the spring rate independently of the "preload" the air spring will often not be as sensitive as some coil setups.

Make sense?
  • + 1
 very new to mtb but I had that theory about the "high spring rate+ low preload vs low spring rate+ high preload" myself as iv'e bin trying to sort the settings on my fox 40. thanks for clarifying that for me as I didn't want to go buying a new spring and find out my idea was wrong. iv'e got a makulu and it just floats along, its very subtle but would prefer a bit more feedback/feeling from the track. so a firm spring is now on its way. Smile
  • + 1
 Thanks for the answers, really informative. The one thing other I would like to know about air shocks is about their natural rising rate (happy to be corrected on that - I'm not an expert!). If I pump up an air shock to 200psi (when lighter riders are running like 150) it is already a good portion of its way through it's 'spring curve', which I believe is another reason why I lose out on a lot of small bump sensitivity. As I said, I'm no expert but would be interested to know.
(and yes, I know the CC guys have left, just wondering if anyone else might know.)
  • + 1
 @Bigtim, my understanding of this is that your cranking up the pressure in order to stop bottom out right ? your losing small bump compliance because your running too much pressure so the shock is ramping up way too fast. ideally youd need something that gives you HSC control to resist bottoming and that way you could run lower pressure giving you small bump performace back. I had this with an RP23.
  • + 1
 Jaydmf - nail on the head....
  • + 1
 Sorry, but either I'm confused here or I got a different answer from you guys (Cane Creek) when I called. I had a 450lb ti spring on my CCDB when I originally built my bike. At that time I weighed 205lbs w/o gear and the shock felt great. I now weigh 155lbs w/o gear and have barely any preload on the 450lb spring to get the proper sag. I've adjusted the shock over & over but I would swear the shock doesn't feel quite as good over small rough stuff. I called and asked about changing to a lighter spring rate (350lbs, as this is what I've seen other riders my weight using) and was told as long as I got the correct sag the spring doesn't matter and because of this I've kept tinkering with shock as it just doesn't feel quite as smooth as I think it should. Based on what I read above it looks like going to a lighter spring rate may actually be beneficial?
  • + 2
 @ Bigtim, Look out for a cheap dhx air or maybe consider a monarch plus rc3 if money is tight. my experience of the DHX is that its just an rp23 with a bit of bottoming resistance which may help. if your running a high volume can and its an RP23 you could swap to the standard can which may help a small amount as its going to ramp up more and its a pretty cheap mod. same if this is with a monarch. From my experience however nothing has the control of the DB for HSC. im talking air cans here. my personal preference is always to have a bit in reserve when it comes to travel i dont like bottoming forks/shox.

@ Kdiff i would certainly try a lighter spring use the same setup as with the 450. TF tuning have a spring calculator that may be handy as it may be worth going to a 400 rather than a 350 but depends on your preference, riding style and frame. with my orange i always found i wanted a higher weight than the calculator but the same shock on a tomac needed a lighter spring so its a bit trial and error.
[Reply]
  • + 7
 I've heard some shocks are better suited to different frames depending on leverage rate and leverage curve (progressive, falling, etc). What type of suspension is best suited for the CCDB coil? I'm currently riding a Yeti ASR7 and curious as to how they will play together.
  • + 8
 Josh: awesome question. This is the exact reason we made the DBair, for bikes that like/need a progressive spring rate. Anyway, the DBcoil (CCDB) likes bikes with a "progressive" leverage ratio. Mike Levy did a nice job explaining this in the recent Rock Shox rear shock article, but basically this means that the ending leverage ratio is lower than the starting leverage ratio. On the Yeti ASR7, the DBcoil rocks. I have a friend who rides that exact setup.
  • + 1
 My question is very similar to krisrayner; but for a mojo hd, many riders have choose the CCBD Air but they have found a lot of issues trying to get the correct feeling, this is due to dw link design?
  • + 2
 Jim: You're on the right track but it's not due to the DW design generically but due to the specific design of the Mojo HD. As you may be aware (and as a fellow pinkbiker posted elsewhere in this discussion) we have a new "high flow" inner air can that increases the linearity of the air spring during high shaft velocity events. Our experience has been that this update really helps to dial in the feel on the Mojo HD. Give your local service center a call to see about updating your shock if you're having issues on an HD.
  • + 1
 DB Air or DB Coil? Trek Session 9.9? Santa Cruz V10c?
  • + 1
 Session, DBAir strong enough?
  • + 1
 Josh: Brett13 - Trek Session 9.9 - DBcoil - see settings on our tune finder. Having said that, if you are park riding your 9.9 the DBair does work very well as some serious Whistler time has proven. SCB V10c - a hard call. Malc likes the DBair because it allows use of both travel settings without needing an extra spring. I prefer the DBcoil because I use the big travel setting only.
  • + 1
 iv got a 2012 giant glory and i dont know weather to go a db air or coi?l and will it suit this style of bike?
[Reply]
  • + 9
 Why is the DBAir the best shock ever, and what seat can you potentially recommend to coincide with the constant erection I get from using this awesome shock?
  • + 27
 Holly: I actually have a canned response for this, we get it so often.....we recommend the Hobson Easy Seat. painfreecycling.com/index.php/bike-seats/hobson-saddles?gclid=CL2o2du7iLMCFQKCnQodWXAAdg
  • + 2
 *slow clap* haha.

seriously thanks though, shock is foreal the best one I've ever used when paired with my Intense Tracer 2. I love it. I know some of the other responses said, "sometimes engineers win out over marketing (shock coatings)"... but pairing up with Ohlins sure didn't hurt you guys (maybe that was both sided). Been racing cars and motorbikes a long while, and that name is one the industry standard names synonymous with quality. Good marketing choice to broadcast that one. Keep on keeping on.
  • + 1
 I agree. Ohlins is legit and you guys being engineers know that. It's a classic argument of form vs function. I can say with confidence that the CCDB and air shock accomplish both superbly. with function being the primary driving force of innovation of course.
[Reply]
  • + 5
 How do I get rid of the stiction in the beginning of the stroke on my CCDB? I have the same problem with my DB and DBA. The stiction on the air has kinda got better but it's still there and coils still as bad as it always was.

Any help would be RAD!!!!!
  • + 7
 Josh: Can you call us on this? The Double Barrel has an inherently low friction design, maybe there is something else at play here. 800.234.2725
  • + 7
 the more and more i follow cane creeks stuff the more i like them its like they have a help desk right in the products pages. prob gonna switch up some rear suspension here pretty soon.
[Reply]
  • + 4
 I have a CCDB with 16mm eyelets and spherical bearings fitted, can I use the spherical bearing on 34x8mm and 22.2mm shock hardware? Or will I need to change to bushings?

Also can the CCDB be used with 12.7mm hardware if norglide bushings are fitted?
  • + 3
 Josh: You will need to change to bushings. Our max recommended width for spherical bearings is 25.4mm.

As for the 12.7mm hardware - yes.
  • + 3
 So I could essentially run the spherical bearing at one end 22.2mm hardware and a bushing at the other 34mm hardware then?
  • + 4
 Josh: Yes. We made shocks several years ago that were spec'ed just like this.
[Reply]
  • + 4
 I work at a cannondale dealership and we get alot of people that want to change their headshocks to standard forks. The problem is that Cdales 1.5 headtube actually measures to 1.56 and there are no headsets availble for this. Any chance you guys will make one?
  • + 1
 Jim: Whoa! Great Question!!! Cannondale has several different headtubes - some of them are standard "1.5" which is actually a 49.76mm "SHIS: 49". There are many different headsets that are available for this type of headtube that will work with many standard forks. The two other headtubes they use on mountain bikes utilize proprietary bearings that press directly into the headtube and currently (as you know) there is no aftermarket support for these headtubes. As we understand it, Cannondale offers headset options for fitting standard forks to these headtubes but you will be limited to 1 1/8" steerer forks. As a dealership, do you have access to these parts?
  • + 1
 More specifically, prior to 2010, Cannondale Headshok and Lefty head-tubes can be converted to a standard 1-1/8" fork with a ZS49|ZS49/30 headset, as the inner diameter was 49.5mm. Since 2010, however, the head-tubes are 50.5mm, and currently the only converter is available from Cannondale.
  • + 1
 No access in Canada as of yet for these parts. thank you for taking the time to answer my question.
[Reply]
  • + 3
 Hey Guys! As it is notoriously known that the rockshox vivid air does not play nice with the 2011-2012 demo 8's, atleast without personal risk and modification, will the DBA fit in the DB yolk as provided by specialized? I want to switch over to air on my demo 8, and don't want to rip apart a shock to grind off a tab.
  • + 2
 The DBair for the Demo 8 (2011-2013) is not ready yet, as it requires a different interface at the rear shock mount. Having said that, we've been riding them for well over a year now. One of our engineers won several DH races on this exact setup coupled with a Boxxer WC.
  • + 1
 Any estimations on a time frame for release then?

I'd love to try a DB air on either of our Demos.
  • + 1
 Holly: My lips are sealed.
  • + 1
 i would love to put a CCDB air on my demo...do let us kow know where and how we can get the shock and yoke when it becomes available!
[Reply]
  • + 3
 What does Cane Creek currently do in its design and manufacturing to increase its environmental sustainability? What direction do you see your company and the industry going in the near future?
  • + 30
 David: The #1 consumer of energy in our facility is lighting. To lower our footprint, we recently upgraded much of our plant lighting to T-8 fixtures, which are much more efficient, and plan to complete the process by summer next year. In addition, our goal is to become a zero-land-fill facility by the end of 2013, and we already have in place an aggressive recycling program.

Being environmentally conscious is not only good for communities, it's good for business, and we believe the industry as a whole is moving in that direction.
  • - 4
 Hehe, have you read "Confessions of a radixal industrialist" by Ray Anderson?
  • + 2
 David: Sorry, no, haven't read that -- thanks for the suggestion.
  • - 1
 it's really good and of a great value to everyone, I guess you guys implement most of the stuff he writes about already, but it is truly amazing book on how to make things right with enviornment in mind, and cash on it better than doing things in wasteful way Smile I was fortunate to use products and services with Andersons company "Interface" and they do more great stuff than it is written about in the book. It's just better when you meet those guys.

I just thought it was relevant to your previous comment.

All the best!
Wacek
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Hey Cane Creek,
So i have a question, I just finished a pretty great season in whistler and i had a few friends running CCDB coil shocks. Only problem is they all snapped their shafts on them 2-4 times. bad set up? or Whistler just eats bikes? also they were on 2011 Demo 8's
  • + 3
 It's the fault of the shock extender on the Demos, basically - it puts a bending load on the shaft at bottom out that they were never supposed to see. I have seen updated shafts (9.5mm diameter IIRC instead of the standard 8mm) from CC to help this issue - someone from Cane Creek can give you more info on that.
  • + 1
 I think that basically answers my question. I was really just wondering why. Thanks Socket
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Hey guys,

The base tunes section of your site has different tunes for the 2012 and 2013 Knolly Chilcotin. The frame itself hasn't seen any changes that I know of, has the DBAir undergone any changes in that time?

Thanks!
Brian
  • + 1
 Malcolm: We're working with Knolly on those and will update our web site once they've been finalized. Thanks for the question!
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Hey CC crew

I ride a mondraker summum, and id love to try out the CCDB coil or air.

the shock mounts sizes are however not the usual 6 or 8 MM but rather 1 22x10 mm.

Ive been looking for mountkits to accomodate this but so far no luck.

The bike is not listed on the bikefinder.

Thx Smile
  • + 2
 Malcolm:

We do have 22x10mm hardware part # .HWDL we have sold a number of DB's to Mondraker owners. Great bike!
  • + 2
 Thank the lord! Deffo buying a DB now! Had the same issue, couldn't see the bike listed. Cheers
[Reply]
  • + 3
 Any plans for a dropper seatpost? A 6" drop post with high reliability, infinite adjustment and smooth actuation (hydraulic remote would be ideal, a la the Reverb) would be killer.
  • + 1
 Holly: Not at this time....sorry - hate to disappoint.
[Reply]
  • + 3
 Hey Guys,

What is the purpose of the new high-volume inner air can for the DBAir? Would it be beneficial to put the new inner can in the DBAir on my Knolly Chilcotin?

Thanks,
  • + 3
 I'd love to hear more about this as well in terms of the potential benefits. I'm not having any getting full travel when running sag in the 30-35% range but wouldn't mind being able to get full travel while setting up for a bit less sag.
  • + 2
 Josh: some myths to bust here:
1) The new inner air can is actually not high volume, it is just higher flow. It improves the air flow between the inner and outer air cans.
2) The new inner air can cannot hurt, but isn't always necessary. You should look into it if you are not able to achieve full travel in situations where you would like to and have sag and HSC set properly.

Catch22 - If you wanna run less sag on the Chili (and awesome bike btw) the new inner can would be your cup of tea.
  • + 1
 Does the new air can make the shock more linear in it;s travel?
  • + 2
 Jim: The new inner air can increases the spring's linearity during high shaft-velocity events. At low shaft speeds there's no change in the spring curve.
  • + 1
 Thanks Jim!
[Reply]
  • + 3
 Hey guys, just wanted to say we love what you've done with the brand and the products.

The team enjoyed the DB Air this year on our Makulus ( www.pinkbike.com/photo/8118990 ).

Keep up the good work!
  • + 1
 Holly: Awwwww shucks, now I'm blushing. Honestly though - much like our answers today, its truly a team effort in everything we do. Thanks for representing us so well!
[Reply]
  • + 2
 A lot of people is complaining about the DBAir being too progressive. Is it really just a problem of air flow betwen the two chambers, or is it going to be almost the same with the new sleeve??? Fox has a table in their site with the compresion ratio of all their shocks. (Initial volume/final volume) and they are around 3:1... Can you give us a number to compare the BDAir with them? It would be very helpfull.
  • + 1
 Jim: Yeah. In some cases the "too progressive" feeling is a result of the air flow between the inner and outer air cans being slightly restricted. The updated inner air can (see our response to Tadass) addresses this. With regard to compression ratios, our compression ratio varies slightly with respect to damper length but generally falls within 3.15 - 3.45 : 1.
  • + 1
 Holly: Ok, Ok....that is enough for now Jim.
  • + 1
 Thanks, that CR looks good, not crazy hight at all, so I guess that the new version will work very good on most bikes.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 I have a question about the air volume spacers on the double barrel air. When do you know to use them or not, could you guys maybe include their use in the tune lounge somehow or maybe give some kind of tutorial on how and why to use them.
  • + 1
 Chris: Thanks richwantsout, great suggestion. We've taken some of this info on the road to dealers via the Park Tool Summit program here in the U.S., and will add it to the to-do list for the Tech Section of our web site. Cheers!
  • + 1
 Any news on this? Documentation on the correct usage of the air volume adjustment rings is sparse.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I have a 2011 Specialized Enduro Expert with a Fox Vanilla RC2 36 with 160mm travel fork. I would like to know if Cane Creek offers an Angleset or any other headset that will offer me the ability to steepen the head angle from the stock 66.5 degree one. I have a difficult time keeping the front wheel planted in the turns. I have a motocross background and am very familiar with suspension setting manipulation to help this situation but nothing seems to help. My local bike shops have never seen an Enduro before so I speak directly with Specialized about this problem and not even they are able to offer any solutions that address my problem. Do you have any advice about this? That is, if you don't offer a headset that will address my problem.
  • + 1
 Holly: Sorry, but no. This bike uses integrated headsets which cannot accept an AngleSet.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Hey guys,

I'm currently riding a '11 Specialzed Enduro Evo. I want to upgrade my suspension to a Air-Shock that gives me the same downhill performance as the Steel-Version, but shows better performance uphill and gives me a better weight on my bike.
Since you're supplying the '13 Enduros with your CCDBA I would like to ask if it also fits into the older Enduros and if it's possible to get it with the needed changes made (special travel, special socket) or let somebody do the needes changes to it.

Also you're supplying a special Lever for the '13 S-Works Enduro to change the lowspeed-compression faster while riding. Is that lever going to be supplied as an aftermarket product?

Thanks for your answers and keep upt the good work,

Ben
  • + 1
 Jim: Ben, check out the thread started by Lexatron14
  • + 1
 Thanks, Jim.
Can you already say, about what time it will be available? I want to upgrade the suspension this winter, before Season starts in March.
  • + 1
 Jim: It is available now and all new shocks being shipped come equipped this way!
[Reply]
  • + 4
 Did you employ your design engineer purely on the basis that he is the frontman of The Doors?
  • + 3
 Holly: Is there a better reason?
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I have a DB air, and a previously a DB coil. Now when I back it out to reset my setup, is there a chance that I could go too far back and accidently unscrew the adjusters which would release oil or nitro pressure? I have some what pushed it too far at one point cause I was trying to find when it ends spinning. And a little oil came out. Did I ruin my shock?
  • + 3
 Chris: There are detents and stops on the adjusters, however they are fairly "light." If you're backing out the needles, you do need to be careful -- these are high-performance pieces of equipment, and tolerances are tight. As long as you experience the end point in either direction, you should be OK -- if you got a little oil when closing the circuit, it shouldn't be a problem.

Oh, and the nitro pressure is set and closed, you won't affect that at all.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Dear CaneCreek,
do you have an apprenticeship (10 weeks) and a following bachelor thesis/paper (3 months) to complete my mechanical engineering degree? I'm currently a student at the 'Beuth Hochschule für Technik' (Technical College) in Berlin, Germany. But I won't think a minute about resettling.. If so, I would write out an application?!
  • + 1
 'Oh yeah check this out: bmxtb.pinkbike.com/blog/My-Internship-at-Nicolai-Engineering.html

I would say I'm not the worst apprentice Smile
  • + 2
 Jim: We don't have an official program but send us a resume!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Squeaky CC ti spring? I replaced the stock steel spring with the ti version on a new Demo II but right after the swap, it sounds like a box spring with a binder-full of women. I've snugged up and wound down the pre-load, added some grease to the spring retaining collars, but no silence. Function is otherwise perfect. Make it go away!?
  • + 1
 Malcolm:
Stifford - you said binder full of women----- Ti springs tend to have a thicker coil size and a little rougher finish so it's likely rubbing the spring sleeve. Make sure the open of the coil is not facing the open end of the spring retainer. You may also want to try an flip the spring over.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Can you go into more detail about the dbair on a 2012 demo 8. I currently run a vivid air and love it but have been interested in the tune ability of the DBair. First off, I worry it will be a nightmare to fit like my vivid was. And second, will it be to progressive? I do not like a harsh ramp up near the end of my travel.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 A customer's shock, ccdb air, fitted to a nomad c. After a week of heavy use, it is now stiff at the beginning of the stroke, drops the next inch, hits another 'stiff' point then ramps up rapidly through the rest of the travel. Rd say this is normal... We don't think so and sent it back regardless. Your opinion? Regards T
  • + 1
 Jim: Well, that certainly doesn't sound normal so it's good your sent it back. I can't think of anything that would cause this feeling but I hope your distributor and service center are taking care of you.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Dear Cane Creek,

Congratulations for your excellent products. Excuse me for bringing linearity, progression and choosing between the air and coil once again, but what would help me choose would be the following.

On a bike with an 8.5 by 2.5 stroke shock with a 400lb/in coil I use 2mm of preload and 30% sag which yields aprox 320lb force, and I am assuming negligible internal and linkage friction. At 60% suspension depression the coil force will be 600lbs. At t full travel it will be 1000lbs.

At rest the force for both coil and air will be the same. So my question is at 65% and 100% travel , is the force of the air spring lower or higher and by what percentage accordingly. A link to a graph would be most helpful.

Thanks and Regards.
  • + 2
 Holly: Thanks - excellent suggestion...but a bit specific to get into here...I will let you in on a secret, we do have a Spring Force Calculator in the works.
[Reply]
  • + 3
 I run a Double Barrel in a sit ski and it is fantastic. Ever thought your products would end up on different applications? Quad downhill bikes?
  • + 2
 Chris: Hey Ben, thanks. We've heard about some folks doing that, pretty rad! Our focus is mainly on the bike market, but that's not to say we won't work with special projects -- we've had some interesting calls in the past few years, including some military types! We evaluate opportunities as they come, and if they make sense, anything is possible ... Cheers!
  • + 1
 Check it out - www.pinkbike.com/photo/8797270

The action shots are better, keep in mind I was still playing with my suspension set up when I was dropping the cliff vimeo.com/45172497

Also I really appreciated the for dummies tuning guide on the cane creek site makes life easy!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Would the Double Air work well with a 2011 demo 8 2? how similar would the characteristics be to my boxxer wc up front? also 2011. I am currently running an RC4, while it is very tunable, and a great shock, I want to find somthing that balances out the world cup, because they both have entirely different feelings and characteristics, no matter what the setup or situation.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Hey guys, I have 2012 Scott voltage that is paired up with a marz 66 fork. My problem is I'm running a zero stack headset and the spring preload knob on the top of the fork won't pass under my down tube, say for barspins or ex-ups. In order for this to happen I would need a new headset, prob is it will make an already slack frame more slack. I need maybe 3-4mm extra stack height. What would you recommend?
  • + 1
 Gary: So if that's the ZS49|ZS49/30 configuration we show in our Headset FitFinder, then you can run a ZS49|EC49 AngleSet with a /30 reducer crown race to reel in the angle change. Maybe 0.5 degrees steeper would offset? Before you buy, measure the bottom of that head-tube though -- many Scott bikes are ZS55, which we do not support with AngleSet.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I don't know if this was already asked as there are 500 comments and can't go through all of them right now, so sorry if it was already asked. But do you guys plan on making a rear shock in a shorter eye to eye lengths? I have an intense spider and would love to try a ccdba, but the e2e is 6.5 and I believe the shortest you make is a 7.5.
  • + 1
 Jim: We don't make anything that short yet!
  • + 1
 Well I'm willing to test one for you if you ever need help testing!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I have two questions:

1. have a 222mm e2e CCDB coil. I have a newer bike that needs a 216mm e2e. Can I use a top out spacer with the DB design, as I used to do with WP and Showa moto shocks, or is there a design limitation that prevents this?

Secondly, an AM air fork with internally adjustible travel from 180-140mm in 10mm increments. 34-38mm stanchions and 650b compatible. I am using 650b on my Mojo SL and love it.
  • + 1
 Jim: You actually can do it - that is how we make our 216mm shock. You will need to send it to a service center - Norco or SuspensionWerx in Canada to have the conversion made.
  • + 1
 I have worked on my own shocks and have revalved shocks in the past. I use the local shop to recharge only. What oil do you recommend and what is the nitrogen pressure? Can I buy the spacer from you, or do I have to make my own?
  • + 1
 Josh: I recommend you use a service center!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Hello Cane Creek!

As someone who is keen to get into suspension setup and service, can you recommend a good starting point for learning what I need to know?

I currently work at an LBS in Vancouver, not as a mechanic, but I'm comfortable overhauling suspension components on my own bikes. My eventual goal is to offer setup, tuning and overhaul services to people. I've picked up some books and looked at UBI courses, am I on the right path? Any tips, or things to concentrate on learning?

Thanks for your help and taking the time today to do this.

PINKBIKE: More of these please! This is awesome!
  • + 1
 Holly: You are certainly on the right path already - there are excellent books available and it doesn't hurt to have a strong understanding of physics (yep, they told me to type that). Our advice, continue the course and make sure our Tuning Field Guide is in your library. www.canecreek.com/resources/products/suspension/double-barrel/DB_Field_guide.pdf
  • + 1
 Thanks, Holly.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I have a 2012 Glory and want to put a DB Air shock on. I have seen DB Coil shocks mounted with great results, but I have not seen DB Air on 2010-2013 Glory. Can you please tell me if the DBA mounts to Glory? If not, can you please tell me when an air shock will be available? Thank you!
  • + 2
 Josh: Very soon SundayVans, very soon. The DBair eyelet required for the 2012 Glory is the same as that required for several other bikes (Bergamont Big Air, previous generation Demo 8, etc). We'll certainly have that by the end of the year, though I can't quote an exact date right now.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Cane Creek:
I had a Double Barrel on my Demo this past summer, and will also have one on my new Guerrilla Gravity when its built. I loved how it rode, but was a bit saddened when I experienced what appears to be a common occurrence of the spring rubbing on the shock body. At minimal it was a noise annoyance, and at most, you could actually feel it somewhat. For a product that is billed as top-of-the-heap performance, why is there no solution for this yet? I was reassured it wouldn't affect the shock's safety, but could you not just make replacement springs with a slightly larger I.D.?
  • + 1
 Malcolm: Thanks for the question. We're constrained due to the configuration with the reservoir -- increasing the ID will increase the OD, and we'd run into interference with the backside of the reservoir. Make sure the open end of the spring's coil is not grabbing the open end of the lower spring retainer. You want these 180 degrees apart from each other. Also try re-mounting the spring upside down.
  • + 1
 Vivid coil works, just got to center it. With preload the spring does'nt move around.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 hi cane creek its shane haines from moose jaw i have a few questions fore your suspension guys and hi holly. i have a 2004 santa cruz v10.1 i just bought it has a 5th element air dh shock on it i can find any tech stuff on it . and the reveiws i found say it was very good. and can i put your db air in to my frame with harm the geomitry of. they were only at the time of build 7inch max.
  • + 1
 Malcolm:
Blocks the older V10 looks like there is enough room to place a DBair on the frame. If you are near Vancouver James at Suspension Werx maybe he could mock up a fit.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Hi Cane Creek team. After seeing the VP Varial adjustable headset, I was wondering if you guys might be considering something similar (IE: an on-the-trail adjustable headset). Would be awesome to be able to dial in the head angle at any time, anywhere. Even though VP already makes this, competition is always good. Thanks!
  • + 2
 Jim: The VP design is very interesting and it certainly gives us something to think about when it comes to AngleSet II. We really like the folks at VP though so we would of course have to have our own brainstorm on how to do this in a robust manner.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Is there a size of the DBAir that will fit a 2012 Giant Trance. I had looked around your site and there was no listing for the Trance. As I understand it, the Trance has a weird stroke length, so would I need to get it custom if I wanted to run that rear shock?
  • + 1
 Holly: I'm afraid we'll have to get back with you on this one.
  • + 1
 Ok thanks! It is something I was looking at since my RP2 has blown the seals twice this summer.
  • + 1
 Sorry we do not have a DB Air or Coil to fit the Giant Trance models, due to the unique shock size and stroke required.
  • + 1
 Thanks for getting back to me. Will keep looking for a solution!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Hey CaneCreek team. Do you guys offer internships for mech eng students? It's a little while away still for me (another 2 years till I do my placement) but doing a placement within the cycling industry would be fantastic. I've already used SolidWorks before; is that what you guys stick to, or do you have some method of using other programs like SolidEdge, Matlab etc?
  • + 4
 Holly: We do - send us your resume when the time comes!!!
Basic Job Requirements are:
1. Love of Hillbilly culture
2. Love of beer and banjos
3. Missing teeth (not required but instant credibility)
  • + 1
 awesome, thanks for the reply Holly! I think i'll have to save up a lot before then, as sadly I live in Scotland, far away from you guys!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Hi, I have another Angleset question:
Would your Angleset headset fit a 2011 Scott Genius 30, and would I be able to get the full 1.5 degrees of change? I have also been told by a someone that has used it, that the headset causes an annoying knocking sound, has that been addressed? And when can we expect a new version of the Angleset to be released?
Thanks
  • + 1
 Gary: Thanks for the question; Scott uses a ZS55 Bottom standard, which we do not produce for AngleSet, sorry. As for the knocking sound, proper installation is the key to AngleSets, and instructions and videos can be found on our web site.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Hi, I am running a CCDBA on my Ibis Mojo HD but do not get close to using full travel. On NSMB I saw that a high volume mod - an internal air can giving larger air volume, is available now. Do you think that would help me?
I am 175lbs, 6'4" tall, riding an XL-size Mojo HD with Talas 180 forks, one offset shock bushing to keep the BB down and to slack it off half a degree. I run the CC-website recommended settings for Mojo HD apart from slowing the fast rebound just a tiny bit to match the fork but have had to reduce HSC to zero. With 104 to 108psi I get about 35% sag and in high-G berms the shock travels much deeper in its travel than my RP23 or DHX5.0 did. It feels a bit soft pulling up out of corners. I am fully aware that full travel does not use the last few mm of the damper body and I have full travel, with zero air, marked with a zip-tie, so that I can judge. Is the mod user-serviceable? Is it available in UK?
  • + 1
 Jim: see tadass' thread
  • + 1
 Malcolm: Mutly,The new inner air can is actually not high volume, it is just higher flow. It improves the air flow between the inner and outer air cans.
You should look into it if you are not able to achieve full travel in situations where you would like to and have sag and HSC set properly.

TF tuned should have the can available!
  • + 1
 Sorry if you are near Vancouver Suspension Werx has the inner cans. TF Tuned is in the UK......
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Hello, I have a two part question please.
1- I recently acquired a Canfield Brothers One frame with a 2013 DB air. Did you guys spec the installed volume spacer specifically for this bike? Or should I experiment with the other spacers?

2- With no riding on it at all, there is a small knock from bushing play and I am pretty sure it is from the rearward shock mount. Should I contact Canfield or Cane Creek about this?
  • + 1
 Malcolm:
The volume spacer sizes spec is for the size shock. You would add the spacers as needed for a more progressive feel.

Call the CS crew here 800 234 2725 we can help you with the bushing play.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Hey Cane Creek, I love the damper adjustment range on your DB shocks. Given that the adjustability is a big selling point for DB, why no adjustable bottomout control (i.e. volume and pressure as on the fox DHX RC4)? I ask because I prefer a fairly undamped setup (compression, both low and high speed) for plushness but like to have good bottom out control at end stroke for jumping. I ride lots of places and bikes but I like freeriding and downhilling on my 2012 Intense SlopeStyle 2 best. Current set up is Fox 36 float 180 in front (with angle set which I love, thx) and Fox DHX RC4 in rear at 6.5" travel. Is DB air better? Why? Thx for coming out today.
  • + 1
 Josh: warhorse - We made the DBair to provide this type of bottom out control. By adjusting the air volume, you can control the bottoming resistance.

The bottom out control on any coil spring bike shock (at least those that I know about) use the reservoir as an air spring in parallel with the coil spring. For some very sound engineering reasons, this is not practical in the DBcoil.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 i have been out on a search for an awesome DJ/slope style fork and i cant find anything that matches what i would like, a 20mm threw axle 34-36 mm stanchions 80-100 travel and a tapered steerer under 5 pounds do you think you will eventually make something like this?
[Reply]
  • + 1
 im not as advanced as most of the people on here, most of these comments are lost on me.....my riding style is more freeridey, i ride more gaps and drops than full on downhill. i run a ccdb, im in a split mind to swich to the ccdba, i like to ride a rigid shock but would you advise to use a stronger spring something more like a 550? or get onto an air shock and just put someware a high pressure?
  • + 1
 Holly: DBair all the way...you can do both.
  • + 1
 ooooh, thanks for that..
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Hi Cane Creek, I've just bought an Orange Five with a CCDB fitted, this is a factory fitting, but when I go onto your site there's no option of Orange Bikes on your list of manufacturers for tuning advice, other than that your site is very helpful (except no mention on the zip-tie trick you have to use to remove the spring off a Five)
  • + 2
 Holly: We are working on getting more settings in our database - and confirming them with our partners - there are shocks flying all over the world as I type. In The Lounge we will be launching New Tunes on Tuesday - guess now I REALLY just committed to that 2am idea huh? Look for them to start....in say sometime in the near future.... To make it easy you can sign up with your pinkbike account: www.canecreek.com/products/suspension/lounge
  • + 2
 Cheers Holly, I signed up to it the other day so will keep my eyes on it for New Tunes, thanks for your time
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Hey guys, So right now I have a CC 110 headset on my Rune which has a full 1.5 head tube with a fox float tapered steer fork, but I will be switching to the new Rune that has a tapered head tube. I'm guessing I can keep the bottom of the headset, but for the top do I need to replace the whole thing or can I just replace the cup as the bearing already fits a 1 1/8 steer? Thanks
  • + 1
 Chris: Thanks for the question. The Rune you currently have is a ZS49 converter for that steerer tube; the new one is a ZS44, right? Same bearing, but the cups and covers are all different, so it's a new Top assembly. The good news is, CC offers Tops and Bottoms separately, so you don't have to purchase a whole new headset, just the Top!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I recently bought a ccdb coil for my nomad with the push link and unfortunately it did not fit the push adapter had to go with a fox still have my ccdb hoping that you guys would have some way to make the ccdb work with the push link
  • + 1
 Jim: Sounds like you just got the wrong hardware with your shock. Give us a call and we'll sort it out.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I noticed that Banshee has been running a CCDB Air on the new Banshee Rune V2 while finishing up testing on the Proto frames. I was wondering if you guys have been given a frame to do any testing yourselves so that you can have the Tune stats up on your sight once the new Rune is released?
  • + 1
 Josh: We did an extensive testing session with Banshee at Whistler (an insanely fun first chair to last chair day), followed up with European testing by the Banshee guys. Settings for the DBair on the Rune V2 are dialed. See our Tune Finder to see the exact settings: canecreek.com/products/suspension/db-air/base-tunes

On a side note, the Prime is sooooo fun
  • + 1
 Are you going to provide more base tunes for somewhat uncommon bikes that come stock with the CCDB? I was thinking the Zerode in particular.
  • + 1
 Holly: Working on that TWilks, see my answer to HarryakaDave. We are all in!
  • + 1
 zerode g2 base tune is up.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 my cane creek double barrel on my 2012 demo 8 is starting to creak quite abit like a rub sort of noise its not cumming from the links of my frame or the bolts its from the shock itself??? what could this be? and also i am wanting to set my bike up to me like my weight height riding style etc if that means sending my bike off or taking it somewhere then thats okay too whats best? i want the double barrel setting up properly and serviced and my rockshox boxxer world cup forks servicing and setting up but you will only be able to do my shock im guessing so whats best to do? idealy i would like to take my bike somewhere and get both set up together at the same time so what would you recomend or wheres best to have this done?
cheers
Ollie Smile
  • + 2
 Malcolm:
Hey Ollie, the boys at TF tuned could help you out.
  • + 1
 found the problem Frown the shaft on the shock is bent at the bottom near the bottom eyelet Frown reli not happy Frown ((( and yh im gonna get in contact with tf tuned cheers Big Grin
[Reply]
  • + 1
 hey all,
with DH head angles becoming more slack an the popularity of angle sets, do you think DH fork stanctions are up to it, will they need beefing up if the trend continues. The reason i ask your opinion is I've see more than a few still photo's of riders bottoming out or deep into the forks travel and the stanctions are flexing a HELL of a lot!
is theres such a thing as too slack?
  • + 1
 Chris: nojzilla, that's a tough question to answer. I'll liken it to the recent Red Bull Rampage: Guys were doing runs in practice that 2-3 years ago were their final runs! Bike and fork technology continue to push the envelope, and we're working together with manufacturers to meet the demand. "Too slack" may be a personal opinion!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Hi, I am going to be purchasing a 2013 Canfield Jedi and am set on getting cane creek suspension with it. I am thinking I want the DB air but saw this thread and thought I would ask your opinion. I weigh about 220 with my gear on and plan to do just about everything with the bike including racing, bike parks, and the occasional short uphill to get to the downhill which is why I liked the adjustability of the air shock. Would the DB air be a good choice for me or would the coil be a better fit.
  • + 2
 Eric: With the multiple travel settings on the bike, and the DB Air's adjustment range, you may opt for the Air since you're riding different stuff all the time. It would be easier to set up proper sag, etc. The Air will be more progressive and "lively;" if that's not your cup of tea, go for the Coil.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 If my bike has a very linear suspension which is better for a 2011 banshee legend. A db air or db coil I hear from looking around on sites that. Linear suspension curve isnt best with ccdb products but I rather hear directly from the source. Will Ccdb air or coil be good for a linear curve if so what shock would you recommend for the 2011 banshee legend
  • + 1
 Josh: Go DBair - settings are on our Tune Finder. These settings were gathered under the watchful eyes of the awesome guys at Banshee on a little known mountain outside of Vancouver, BC - Whistler baby.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Soo cool to see CC talking to the people!!! I've got a CC 110 headset and CCDB coil shock on my Orange 224 evo, both superb products. The shock changed the bike for the better even more than I'd hoped :-) Do you have any tips for getting the best out of the shock on this frame? I run my rebound pretty slow, seems to work well. Also seemed to get a lot of pedal bob when I first got it but I've almost got that sorted now. I've found that I need to run a slightly heavier spring than what would be recommended on most shock/spring calculators, is that normal?
Cheers
  • + 1
 Eric: Hey Jonny, have you joined our Lounge yet? The Lounge Lizard community is growing each day, and it's there you can share tunes and tips: www.canecreek.com/products/suspension/lounge. Also check back for New Tune Tuesdays, coming soon ...
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Hi Pleasant CCC folk thanks for the opportunity to ask you questions like this on an open forum

A double barrelled question for you (see what I did there)

* Is there such a thing as a bike specific tune for the double barrel?

** Has there ever before been a bike specific tune on any of the DBs?

The reason I ask this, is because I have, from the Horses mouth (Malcolm) heard that there's no (in my case) a Makulu specific tune.
This has however sparked debate on my local hill, as some friends have been told by people like Dave Garland (who was the CRC lead mechanic at the time) that the DB can in fact be shimmed, if the shock does not cater for the bike, or more to the point - the rider's range.

Forums also tend to be a double edged sword in this regard, because some feverishly argue that there are DB "tunes" and others say there aren't.

It would be great if you could answer this question in public and make an ed to it all Smile

Regards
  • + 6
 Malcolm: Great Question!
Correct we have not had a one-off shim stack tune for a specific bike model. We do work with specific bike manufactures to arrive at a tune externally, using the adjusters and lot of testing back and forth.The DB is different with it's vast tuning range, this allows us to work from the outside towards the ideal tuning range.
Now I have heard of team techs trying different shim stacks etc. What happens when you do this, you take away from the shock's overall adjustment range and sensitivity. It's not that we haven't tried various shim stack models in house. Lets say we build shocks with shim stacks in a different manner, knowing that this would take away from the over all range. We would end up with something like an A, B and C tune range. Three shock models? We would rather have all of those tuning ranges in one shock. Then you be the tuner using the adjusters on your own terms your own trail.
  • + 1
 Thanks Malcolm, much appreciated.
  • + 1
 I thought there was a Makulu tune, in the early years. The only difference was a bigger piggy back or something like that. But now with the current DB you addressed that and there is no frame specific tune.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I may have gotten here too late.... We'll see. :-)

In the motorcycle world, there are lots of shocks with ride height adjustment. Why don't we see more of that on Mountain Bikes? It could go a long ways towards adjusting BB height and steering head angle.

Or is that something the frame manufacturers lobby against? LOL
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Several times i mailed you guys at Cane Creek on more than one mailadres(tech and info for instance) Filled in the form at the website either..... I repeadetly forwarded this mail to the adresses more than once. NEVER i got an answer.....about my DBAir that does not get to its full compression. For more details you can PB me, or check your mailbox at work! So far aftersales from CC for me fails.Big time! For the money their products costs an answer to a simple mail would be the least.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I have an older CCDB (2008?) with screwdriver flats to adjust the low speed settings on my shock, also the shock is completely black instead of partially gold. How does this compare to the current generation of CCDB and would it be worth me upgrading the valves (might have already been done but I'm unsure, how can you tell?). This will be for a 2012 nuke proof mega
  • + 1
 Also what would be a good base tune for this shock on this bike?
  • + 1
 Malcolm:

The updated valving change would give you more adjustment range when tuning the shock. Greater low speed sensitivity. To identify the updated low speed adjusters have the phillips marking instead of the flat screw driver slot.

Sorry I don't have a base tune for your model yet. I'm working on it with the CRC boys. Stay Tuned....
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I've tried suspension products from most of the companies on the market, for me there are only two I'd buy from now, BOS and Cane Creek, the attention to detail and quality of finish just seems to exceed the competition. I'd love to see CCDB forks for DH and a single crown 160mm version. I think the attention to detail and finish of BOS products is on a par with the CCDB I have on my Spicy if your forks follow the same format consider at least one set of each sold. I currently ride a Lapierre Spicy for trail with a Deville on the front and a CCDB on the rear and and an Intense M6 with a Fox 40 up front and a SToy on the rear. My DH rig is getting sold and replaced with the LTD WC YT Tues as soon as it's released. Black and gold looks sick by the way, keep with that colour scheme. Both bikes also run your headsets which must be the most easily serviceable and trouble free components on the bikes. Keep up the good work and release some prototype pics/gossip on any fork developments. Once I know the forks are on the horizon all other suspensions purchases go on hold.....
[Reply]
  • + 1
 1) In other comments you say the DB has no shims to change you just have a very wide range in the valves. Since i got my DBcoil from TF tuned will they do anything to the internals? I was very happy with the shock/setup/service i had from them. I would not have found the settings on my own very easily. (i have an orange sub 5).
2) As you dont have any forks on the market yet and you have your own workshop to play in. Do any of the Cane Creek team have standard parts in their forks or have you made your own internals?
3) Also whats your view on titainium springs. Are they worth it for all strokes in terms of performance and weight loss?
4) Do you do much modeling on matlab or any other program to see how a shock responds?
[Reply]
  • + 1
 With the double barrel damper providing a massive range of adjustment from standard do you ever create custom valving setups for specific riders, frames or even yourselves? Do you feel that there is any fork manufacturer that compliments your shocks the best? And finally I'm currently doing a degree in mechanical engineering and would like to get into the bike industryz any advice? Thanks for your time!
  • + 9
 Josh: to answer each question:
1) We strive to create a "damping envelope" that allows riders to achieve an ideal tune for their bike of choice from a single damper setup. Having said that, do we do such things for ourselves? Of course. It would be a disservice to all the riders out there if we were not constantly testing/refining/evaluating to modify these internals as we continue to progress our designs.
2) I'm taking the 5th on the fork suggestion question
3) any advice for getting into the bike industry as an engineer - 1) learn to live off top ramen and white rice 2) learn to accept bike parts in lieu of actual money 3) place a value on riding at lunch higher than actually eating lunch
  • + 1
 Cheers for the response, might have to try and talk to the companies around here! Got to say love the DBAir i've got on my Nukeproof Mega, totally changed the bike for the better and it's not even totally dialled yet.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Hey, I saw a lot of Demo 8 with a broken CCDB this Summer (5-6 broken Shocks which isn´t normal is it?). Can you tell me what the problem with the Demo 8 frame is that leads to a broken CCDB (always at the same position (piston rod))?

Any idea when the CCDB-Air will be available for the Demo 8 frame?

thx
[Reply]
  • + 1
 1) On Cane Creek Base Tunes website for CCDB [coil] there is a difference between settings for 2012 and 2013 Knolly Chilcotin. Why?

2) Choosing the correct spring rate for Chilcotin frame. I weigh 215-220 lbs ready to ride. When I entered all data in the "fit finder" on Cane Creek website I came up with suggested 550 lb/in spring rate. However, on Knolly website suggested spring rate for my weight is 450 lb/in. There is quite a discrepancy between these two rates. Please, give us some advice about this.

3) I have read about some problem with shock mounting hardware:
forums.mtbr.com/9403022-post6.html
Is this issue sorted out yet?

4) Keep up the good work! Love your products and customer service! Thank you!
  • + 2
 Josh:
1) Good catch. There should not be a difference, since the 2012-2013 Chili's are the same. We have corrected our website. I literally just got off the phone with Knolly to make sure we had this sorted. We spent quite a bit of time with Knolly in the development of the DBair (even spent a day in the snow on Seymour together), so there were a lot of various settings going around. Looks like we goofed the entry of the 2012.
2) On spring rate- that is a big difference. I'll need to look into this. Until then, Knolly knows their bikes and the CCDB, so it would be hard for me not to go with their suggestion over our analytical model.
3) Hardware - I think if you look through enough forums you'll find a problem with everything! For people who have had trouble we've worked with them to resolve any issues. Please feel free to give us a call if you have a specific issue.
4) fist-bump to you sir!
  • + 1
 Josh: Hey I'm back - I looked into this and turns out Knolly just updated their website (knollybikes.com/bikes/chilcotin), and now suggest a 500lb spring. Our spring calculator gives 550lb. So, we vary by 50lb/in (10%).

There is obviously still a difference, but it is within 1 spring rate. Our spring rate calculator is based on an average leverage ratio (as it is for all bikes) and is thus simply a suggested starting point. So if/when an OEM suggests a specific spring rate for a given rider weight on a given model, we will always yield to that since it takes into consideration the specifics of that bike's kinematics. We recommend you to follow their lead.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 yeah im late to find out but hopefully CC is still listening or reading. awesome shock, thicker shaft will be even more so. and stoked to hear youre thinking about forks....

what would happen if a fork and a shock could communicate? what if tuning was simple from RTD feedback that was individualy taken from each ride a rider had. >?

your shocks stand out from the rest ive ridden, will the forks? I will gladly test the first gen.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Several times i mailed you guys at Cane Creek on more than one mailadres(tech and info for instance)
Filled in the form at the website either.....
I repeadetly forwarded this mail to the adresses more than once.
NEVER i got an answer.....about my DBAir that does not get to its full compression.
For more details you can PB me, or check your mailbox at work!
So far aftersales from CC for me fails.Big time!
For the money their products costs an answer to a simple mail would be the least.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Can you guys get into basics behind piston design. Specifically, how are shimstacks arrived at? Practical experience or analysis (CFD, system dynamics etc) what is your strategy for developing a damper from the ground up?
  • + 3
 Josh: Shim stacks are only one of several things that dictate the damping in our Double Barrel design. We use a combination of analysis and practical experience. System dynamics is obviously critical (I recommend Ogata's textbook).

Our strategy for making a damper from the ground up - make the radest dampers available.
  • + 1
 Ogata is god, all we got for years in school. Haha.

I guess specifically I have always wondered what your starting point is, and how best to arrive at it. Do you assume an average weight of rider and trail conditions or do you say I have a spring/mass/damper system and I want it X% over damped, under damped, critically damped etc.
  • + 4
 Josh: trade secrets are very expensive. You'll need a briefcase full of bills for me to have this discussion.
  • + 1
 Priceless response.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I would like to see a smart marketing! there are too many models of forks with complicated naming! for example Apple has 2 kinds of laptops MacBook Pro and Mac Air! easy to follow. While SRAM has so many models that confuse ppl.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I'm a huge fan of you guys products and run a double barrel on my bike right now I'm looking at getting a db air for a bike I'm building up and I want all the benefits of an air shock but I'm still not to sure how it will compare to just a coil double barrel do you have any sort of suggestions?
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Hi I have a question. Many forks today are have internal adjustments for height using spacers so that people can fine tune their ride. I was wondering is it possible to make a shock that is internally adjustable for height? It would be really nice to be able to dial my bb height and head angle by dropping my shock a little.
[Reply]
  • + 4
 Hi Cane Creek
I just wonder what hardware I need to mount
your double barrel Air shock to my nukeproof scalp frame?
  • + 2
 Chris: Have you visited our Suspension FitFinder? www.canecreek.com/products/suspension/double-barrel/fit-finder

For the Scalp, it looks like 22.2x8 and 24.0x8. Thanks for the question!
  • + 1
 Thanks alot for your answere! :-)
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I have the Large Devinci Wilson Carbon with the CCDB. It came with a 250 Spring which was way too soft, when I called Cane Creek support the representative immediately recommended the 350 based on my weight. I am 6'4" 225lbs with gear I could be up to 235(don't know for sure) and ride DH/slope style trails. Even with the settings to allow for the stiffest, liveliest ride it was mush even just sitting down on it let alone trying to get any pop off a jump or drop. I'm now up to a 400 Spring with all the settings wide open.
Questions:
Am I crazy to feel like I need the 400 and maybe a 450? The leverage ratio's are supposed to call for a much lower spring weight but I'm not finding that to be the case and right now I'm not really utilizing any of the adjustments CaneCreek offers and highlights as its big advantages.
Am I missing out on the benefits of the CCDB by not utilizing the damping/settings?
Should I step up to the 450 and then start dialing it in?
Is anyone else my size experiencing the same issue?
Thank you for the opportunity to get these answers from the designers and the folks talking to other stores and riders.
DB
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Hi,
I have a ccdb 215 mm i2i ,2.5 stroke with a 500 lb spring which is too heavy for me.
This came factory fitted on a 2013 nukeproof mega am . lrg size
I have purchased a lighter spring but cannot get the old one off as there is only 5 mm or so of thread left on the preload collar to slacken it off.
The collar has no room to drop down enough to slide it out due to the spring not clearing the shoulder of the preload collar ! any ideas please ??
Cheers Ray
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Hi CaneCreek, I am ready to purchase a CCDBAir for my V10 Carbon. you have mentioned in one of the post above regarding the redsign on the air can to have high flow inner air can to minimize to crazy ramp-up toward the end stroke. Has this been incorporated in the newer CCDBAir shock currently in the bike shop? If not, who do I tell whether of not the BBAir I purchase has this incorporated into it. Perhaps by the S/N or something else? Thanks
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Hey Cane creek, i've tried out both of your rear shocks and love them, i'm thinking of possibly getting one for my 2013 bike which will be a 2013 scott gambler, i'm wondering which shock (coil or air) is best when i'm riding rouch rocky terrain every day of the season (literally everyday since i live right beside the mountain) and it has to be a 10.5 long because the gambler requires that length of shock. any suggestions and do u guys make both shocks in that length ?

thanks

Nick
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Dear PB Editors Mr.Brule, Mr.Richard, Mr.Mikey,
WC season is off, and we need cool articles
1. Component review esp. shocks & forks which are very cool.
2. WC rider / freerider interview
3. New Bikes / WC team sneak peak
4. Riding & vacation stuff .. epic photos

THANK YOU SO MUCH Big Grin
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Why does the CCDB use such a small shaft?
Doesnt a small shaft have less oil displacement in a shock, thus not having as high flow through the valving as most coilovers?
Or since the ccdb isnt a mono-tube shock, does it work on a different set of principles?
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Hi CCCC!

Can you confirm absolutely the correct dimensions, angles etc for the headset in a 2008 Specialized EnduroSL S-works Carbon frame? Specialized UK, my LBS and the internet all seem to have differing opinions! Since it's one of yours, you would seem to be the guys to ask :-) ! Any help much appreciated! Tim
  • + 2
 Jim: The 2008 Enduro should be a standard IS42 top ("Campy spec") with a recessed (modified/not standard) IS52 bottom. The bottom assembly will utilize pretty much any 52mm bearing but the bearing will sit much deeper in the headtube than is normal. If you're using a Specialized "Future Shock" with a molded-in crown race, you'll need to drop in a 52mm bearing with 45 degree chamfers on the ID and OD. If you're using a "regular" fork, you can use a standard IS52/40 (or IS52/30) lower headset with an adapter that is available from Specialized.
  • + 1
 Thanks guys - its for a friend's bike I recently rebuilt - he's running the E150 dual-crown future shock still, but it doesn't have a molded in crown race - it has a split ring. Since swapping the bearings for new ones, according to the ones sold to me by my LBS (a Spesh dealer who for some reason refused to order in the bearings from Spesh UK for me, and instead sold me a campy standard one), there is a slight amount of movement/play in the headset. The dimensions of the new one, by eye, were slightly different from the ones I removed (which were toast!) - hence my real concern. Only one of the two bearing cartridges that came out of the frame had any writing on it - hence the problem!

From your answer, am I to understand that I actually need to buy two distinct, different, bearings that aren't actually available in one single headset? I'm guessing I have the correct top, but that the bottom might be wrong. My understanding is that the headset was one of "yours"; if so, can you point me at the right one?

No worries at all if this is all too complex to deal with here - quite understand :-) ! Thanks for the answer - greatly appreciated!
  • + 1
 Jim: Well, this is getting pretty specific and complicated so the best thing would be to call our CS team and get things straightened out. But yes, in essence you'll need to split your headset spec up into top and bottom fitments. This makes life much easier in the age of tapered.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 just a short question. I have a specialized demo 7 2009 and I'm out of headsets. Could you please exact which headsets I am going to buy? I have boxxer team 200mm in front (tapered - semi integrated). Thanks Smile
  • + 3
 Jim: You need a ZS49/28.6|ZS49/30. I suggest a 110 for that bike!

This info, as well as a HUGE amount of other headset fitment info is available on our Headset Fit Finder: canecreek.com/headset-finder
[Reply]
  • + 2
 What type of Education do most "Suspension Engineers" have? Mechanical engineering? Also, how does one get into the industry of making/ designing suspension products for the mountain bike industry?
  • + 1
 Holly: The blanket answer is Mechanical Engineering. But it appears that Electrical Engineering is becoming increasingly important. As for entry to our industry as an engineer - refer to Josh's 3 Step program he provided for Wilm87.
  • + 1
 It's very interesting that you'd include electrical engineering with mechanical engineering. Should we be expecting something from CC that uses batteries? Do tell!
  • + 9
 Josh, No, we are going solar
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I want a DB Air extremely bad for my 2011 specialized enduro comp (or if I got the new 2013 version of the enduro comp, to put one on right away!), but I am unsure about how it would attach to the linkage. On the 2013 s-works there appears to be a custom DB Air that attaches directly into the end of the shock. Do I need this custom shock through specialized? or can I buy a stock shock and make it work? Thank you very much.
  • + 5
 Josh: We are working on DBairs for 2010-2012 Enduros (all flavors), so sit tight on that unless you want to go ahead and upgrade to the 2013 anyway. You can't use a standard DBair on any Enduro, the linkage interfaces require special end eyes.
  • + 4
 Malcolm: We've been working with Specialized to accommodate their eyelets for several different models, especially for 2013. At this time we do not have an eyelet for the 2011 Enduro line; however, it's in the works. Thanks for the question!
  • + 1
 I've been waiting for this news! But I am more interested in the DB Coil, will it be available for Spez Enduro?
  • + 1
 Josh and Malcolm, thank you very much for taking the time to answer my question! You guys were extremely helpful and have answered something I have been wondering about for months now! Thanks again!
  • + 1
 Ahh perfect. I was going to ask the same question. I cant wait. I have a 2012 Enduro EVO and I would love a DB Air on mine!
  • + 1
 Josh: Cyphereza - DBcoil on the Enduro is not in the cards... however, the DBcoil comes with the 2013 Enduro EVO
  • + 2
 This is fantastic news! I ride a 2011 Enduro and my only problem with it is the shock... Not so much the function but more the worry of what to do if it blew up. If I could get a CC DBA to fit, I could run that as my regular shock and keep the RP23 as a spare. Sweet… problem solved!

Make it happen soon please!!
  • + 1
 I think I am on the same wagon... I would like to get DB Air for my current and new Glory (2010 and/or 2013) frame. The frame uses 15mm axle to hold bottom end of the shock. It goes through bare shock eyelet (w/o bushing). Can you give more precise date of the release of the specific DB Air version?
  • + 1
 Thx Josh, Cheers!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Not really sure whether this question has been answered already though, I'm new to owning the CCDB and very impressed with it so far, but is there any way to avoid the shock rub on the black part of the body? Or it isn't a great concern, and shouldn't worry about it? Thanks
  • + 1
 Josh: see @pz3z

It isn't a functional concern, the black sleeve is there to protect the shock from any damage. Worry not...
  • + 1
 If you want to see that sexy gold body without doing damage to it, try these thrust bearings with their ti spring:
www.k9industries.com

I use the Obtainium ones, but it is the same thing and Obtainium don't exist any more from what I know. You might still get a small rub on occasion, but I ran for 2 years with only some really minimal rub. I now believe that happened because I didn't clean the thrust bearings often enough and they got sticky.

You'll need to warm up the black sleeve with a hair-dryer or heat gun to get it off, it's on tight.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I have a 2011 Mongoose Khyber 1.5 head tube running with a tapered Totem Air fork. Currently I have a standard headset the is an external cup design adding about 1 CM to the stack height. My Bottom bracket rides a bit high at 14.25 and I would like to get an angleset that has a .5 degree slacker with a zero stack bottom cup option to drop that stack height and bottom bracket height. I have been searching around and cant find a Zero stack bottom cup option in 1.5 for tapered forks. Am I missing something?
  • + 1
 Gary: bmdtech, tapered forks require the 52mm bearing, which means an external cup bottom on AngleSets, sorry -- no Zero Stack option there.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Another angleset question here: Do you guys offer an angleset that would fit a 2011 Lapierre Spicy with a Fox Float 160 on it and if so which one? I looked into this before but I keep getting different answers everywhere I look. Thanks
  • + 3
 Chris: According to our Headset FitFinder at www.canecreek.com/headset-finder, you'd be looking for the ZS44|EC56 Angleset, with either a /30 crown race (straight steerer) or /40 (tapered). Thanks for the question!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 What oil cST or what is the Ohlins Oil part number that is the the factory shock oil or recommended oil for the Double Barrel Coil? I ask this, as I haven't been able to get a confident answer from the 2 of the recommended service centers, I have called. Thanks.
  • + 5
 Josh: The shock oil we use is 11cST@40deg C. Another great option for the DBcoil and DBair is Motul VI400. It is a bit easier to get.
  • + 3
 Awesome! Thanks Josh, Pink Bike and Cane Creek. This was way easier!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I currently have an Ibis Mojo HD with a CCDB coil. Freeriding - it feels great and it does not bottom out using the base settings for that frame. My question is what will be the most significant difference in feel with the CCDB Air with the same sag settings and using the recommended base settings?
  • + 1
 Josh: Empty403 - If you switch to a DBair, at the stock air volume and settings with the same sag as you run with the DBcoil, the DBair will feel more progressive (harder to get to the bottom of the shock) and slightly less sensitive. However, as you already know, you won't stay at base settings for long, so you can tune to suit your style with either DB shock.
  • + 1
 Are you referring to the Mojo or the Mojo HD? I have the HD version. Cane Creek DB Coil Base Tune database does have a tune on the Mojo HD.
So your saying both shocks work, but the Air will be more balanced? When you say "balanced" - does that mean all the adjustments are closer to the middle of its range?
I guess I have to just try it out to feel what you guys are feeling.
  • + 1
 Jim: My recommendation would be try before you buy. The coil is always going to be more sensitive and more linear. Both shock will work but the air will feel more, well, "air-y". If you're just freeriding/descending you'll probably be more happy with the coil feel while if you pedal uphill at all the air will probably suit your needs. That said, the shocks are so adjustable that you can get an air to feel a lot like a coil and vice versa. For your riding style though it sounds like the coil is a good call as long as you're happy with the performance.
  • + 1
 "Try before you buy"? Haha, I guess that means you are offering a loaner CCDB Air to me? Message me on my Pinkbike account!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Awesome idea to pull this together, it's great! I have a 2010 Specialized Enduro and I was thinking about upgrading to a DBAir. When I go to your fit finder I don't see an option for it. What are your thoughts on running the DBAir on this bike?

Cheers!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Think its a fantastic idea that you take time to speak to the people who actually buy your products to see what the consumer wants/needs. Alot of companies could learn from this.

Im currently running a CCDB on my tracer, and have to say its transformed the bike totally, however thinking about switching it out for the air version. Other than the weight is there any advantages to doing this?

Just to be nosey, what's there to look forward to from CC in 2013?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Andy
  • + 2
 Josh: for 2013 we're all getting new calendars!
  • + 1
 haha, epic reply!
  • + 1
 Just wanted to say commencalcruzer, I dont think Cane Creek was blowing off your question, its just been said more than once that the ccdbair is a more progressive option to the ccdb to suit different bikes' leverage rates
  • + 1
 thought it might have, but kind of gave up trying to keep track of all the questions and answers
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Hey CaneCreek, I'm currently looking in to buying a Morewood Jabula, my current setup is a Pivot firebird with a 36 160 talas and Kashima RP23. I was wondering if the DBair would serve me good for climbing or should I stick with an RP23 and it's pro pedal? My current RP23 is to soft on the compression side when I hit the fast rough stuff. I'm guessing the DBair would be alot better on the downhills, but it's loosing efficiency in the uphills that I'm worried about. I ride AM/enduro mostly. Any plans for a more AM/XC shock like the RP23 and Monarc RC3?

Thanks!
  • + 2
 Josh: Morewood Jabula and DBair are a very nice couple. They snuggle and never go to bed angry. We're working on settings for the DBair on the Firebird now... seriously, there is one in my office.

The DBair can be setup on either bike to be an efficient climber. Of course there will be a compromise in some low speed sensitivity, so depending on your preferences (what you value more: uphill or downhill) it may or may not be the right choice for you.

Any plans for a more AM/XC shock - that would be awesome huh?
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I would like to slacken the head angle on my Canyon Nerve AM 2012 model. It is fitted with the standard Fox Talas Tapered fork. I have tried your Headset Fit Finder but am unsure of the Steerer-Tube Diameter and Crown Race Seat Diameter to get the correct model.
Which model angleset do i require or how to measure the forks details to get the right model? Many thanks.
  • + 1
 On the same subject my current headset has zero stack height. I dont have a lot of steerer tube so need to keep this in consideration.
  • + 2
 Chris: Thanks for the question. The Canyon Nerve is set up with an Integrated (IS) Bottom, which means the bearing chamfer is molded into the head-tube. As such, there is not an AngleSet available that will help you slacken the angle -- AngleSet headsets require cups both Top and Bottom to work.
  • - 1
 Just get rid of that crap man, Canyon is a "Burn after riding" frame. I think if you gave it to Joe Graney for a spon he would puke his guts out, sorry...
[Reply]
  • + 1
 In regards to parabolic valves, can you better explain why these designs are better than traditional designs using speed sensitive shims/orfice based principles. Also can you please elaborate on the defencieces. Because there are known inherit issues and would like your take on that. To conclude I have seen amazing shock dynos on newer dual speed , dual port shim based dampers , what is your thought on these.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I would like to fit a CCDB Air shock on my 2013 Specialized Demo 8 Frame. I've had great experience with the coil on my '12 frame and I want to make the bike lighter and feel more progressive with the Air shock. Do you think I will need to modify my link at the back of the bike? I know the link is designed to work with CCDB's and Fox RC4's, but the vivid air requires it to be slightly modified. Will this be the case with the CCDB Air?

Alex
[Reply]
  • + 1
 cork(8 hours ago)

An air sprung trail fork with a 20mm thru-axle that offers the same adjustments as your rear shocks, please. No funny three-level damper adjustments that aren't required, no complicated travel adjustment feature, and a competitive weight. Damping in a closed cartridge (or sealed within the stanchion tube) so that the lowers can be dropped for a cleaning and fresh lube without having to jump into doing a damper service. Plenty of low-speed compression damping range.

This guys post is right on!!!! This is exactly what we need.

My question is as follows. I currently ride a Santa Cruz Driver8. Would the DB Air and the DB Coil work well with my rear suspension style? Do you guys have any idea what leverage ratio the Driver8 is Also, if I upgraded to a new Santa Cruz v10 carbon would your shocks work awesome on that frame aswell? Is the leverage ratio the same as the Driver8?
Thanks so much for your help!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 cane creek one quick question where would i find my ccdb serial number so i can log onto your lounge? im looking for some other people's settings because im running a 400 lb spring and only 155 lbs, but i feel like i bottom too often. i dont want to compromise small bump, but ive added a few clicks hsc of your guy's base tune and i still feel that bottom. thanks for help/advice
  • + 1
 The Serial Number is on the front side of your shock under the end eye.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I have been toying with the idea of fitting a DBAir to my yeti SB66, done the usual forum scouting, have yielded mixed feedback.

The forum consensus is that the DBAir spring is too progressive for the essentially linear leverage rate found on the SB66. Or this to do more with the comparatively long stroke used on the SB66?

Is the DBAir spring more progressive than the typical offerings from rockshox and fox? I find my XV fox air can with large air can spacer pretty ideal.
  • + 2
 Josh: The DBair can be setup to be similar in progressivity to other shocks. We've had great feedback on DBair'ed SB66's. Linear leverage is no problem for the DBair.... it likes it... Have you ever found a consensus on a forum?
  • + 1
 Josh, thank you very much for the reply. Yep, forums aren't the best. Great to hear, loks like im going to be running a DBair eventually then.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I'm a toolmaker apprentice in the Northwest and I'm interested in moving into the bicycle industry when I finish my apprenticeship. Does your company employ toolmakers? If so, what particular skill-sets do you seek in your machinists/toolmakers?
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Hi Cane Creek, I'm currently using an angleset on my SC Tallboy LTc and after following your video and installation process carefully i'm still having a light knocking sound on my headset. I tried reinstalling it twice already with more grease and proper alignment but it still make a pop sound when the bike hits a bump. Is there anything else i can do to solve this issue.
Also im running a DB Air on my 2011 Turner DHR and i was wondering so i need to upgrade to the new sleeve since its a DW Link bike? Also what is the service intervals for the DB Air and can it be done ourselves? can you guys come up with a video for the DIY servicing i it is possible? And i would definitely buy a fork from Cane Creek maybe something for 29er Trail Bikes and also a DH Fork!
Thanks for feedback.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 cane creek do you have any pictures of a double barrel cut in half... i know its almost a crime to do it... lol but do you have it?
  • + 1
 Jim: check google for pictures, here's a link to our friends down the mountain: www.bike198.com/look-cane-creek-db-air-rear-mtb/cane-creek-db-air-cutaway
  • + 1
 can i purpose something that might help you? its like on air shock it has no end travel bumper... so a few people have a few problems in having the right sag without bottoming out... dont you think that adding a bumper like in common spring shock would help to prevent this bottoming out issue? so like that it could be 33% sag with no issue of bottoming out...
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Cane Creek. Will you guys ever produce a fork? if so how much would it be? Also, I have a Kona stinky TL 2011, Is there a DB air shock that would fit it? Would love to get a response.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Been riding db coils since 2008, bought a new 2013 giant trance x29er, would love to run a dbair on it. Will it fit, looks kinda tight. Could you run the piggy back on a remote hose?
  • + 1
 Josh: We'll have to look into this one...

On the remote hose - we don't have any plans to do this
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Any plans to make an Angleset that is compatible with cannondale system integration head tubes? I own a 2009 cannondale rize and have always wondered about playing with geometry numbers on my bike. Thanks
  • + 1
 Eric: madmax, if that's the 49.5mm head-tube bore (which I I think it is), you're good with a ZS49|ZS49 AngleSet and a 1-1/8" straight-steerer fork. We've done that conversion a couple of times on Cannondales (including a ghetto 69er), and as long as you install it properly, the AngleSet works great. Thanks for the question!
  • + 1
 So I've tried that size before with a 40 series headset but ended up with a paperweight. The ID of the canondale ht is 1.56" I've read, so is that a no then? What models were those cannondales by chance if you have that info?
  • + 1
 Eric: In general, pre-2010 were 49.5mm and since then they've gone to 50.5mm; you need to measure without any cups in there. If the 40-Series didn't fit (was it too small?) then the AngleSet won't either.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 how can i get full travel out of my DB Air on my Intense M9? ive found the main seal doesnt go to 3" on the shaft. should i back out the HSC? is there a smaller volume sleeve available?
  • + 1
 Josh: Please give us a call - 800.234.2725
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Hi,

I'm using Scott Voltage FR3, i want to change my rear shock with CCDB Coil e2e 24. I've lookin for best suspension setup for CCDB. My weight is 82 Kg possibly my riding weight are +/-90 Kg. Thanks alot.
  • + 1
 soo does anyone have experience with Scott Voltage with CCDB Coil?
[Reply]
  • + 1
 How does te ccdb air hold up to heat? Xgusion uses a super thin can, rockshox has the hot rod, how do you guys do it?
Also could you guys tell me what headset fits into a 2012 specialized p.2 cro-mo frame?
  • + 1
 Josh: It does quite well, just like the DBcoil. How do we do it? From a fundamental design directive. Damping in both DBcoil and DBair is primarily handled in the cylinderhead (the part with the adjusters) which is a very effective part for exchanging heat to the atmosphere. Also, the since the air can (an excellent insulator) does not surround the primary heat source in the DBs, the difference in fade is relatively small between the DBcoil and the DBair.

On the 2012 P.2 - That little guy takes an IS42/28.6|IS42/30. Info also available on our headset fit finder: www.canecreek.com/headset-finder
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Not sure if it has been asked before a I skimmed to the comments box so here goes.
What made you come up with your CCDB idea and were there many technical issues/problems in designing and creating the shock.

Cheers
James
  • + 1
 Josh: Wonkle - uh oh, pandora's box just opened, but great question.

When Cane Creek decided to enter the oil-damped shock market (10 years ago now) a thorough search was done to identify technologies with potential in the bicycle world. The twin tube style damper was selected as the most promising platform, which was a dice-roll, but turned out to be a great decision. Twin tube style damping, as integrated in the Double Barrel shocks brings the tunability to the rider - you control your tuning destiny. Without getting sales-pitchy, it also does so in a way that is accessible. The 4 damping adjustments are independent, so you can tune LSC without affecting HSC, LSR without affecting LSC, etc. While we underestimated the difficulty in re-educating an entire market to spread this gospel, we seemed to have turned the corner. Many here on Pinkbike are as good at tuning as we are (or better) and can take that ability right to the trail on a DB. We have also created a Tuning Field Guide (to simplify the tuning process), as well as "Base Tunes" so the starting point is closer to the finishing point ( to make the tuning process faster). There are some other more technical reasons for the choice to adopt the twin tube damping structure: smaller diameter damper shafts, better cavitation resistance, less hysteresis in the damping curves.

Were there any technical issues/problems early on? Oh man, I'll say. It is a pretty complicated assembly that requires many high tolerance parts that all must coexist in a very small volume. Is was fraught with issues, but this is to be expected. We pretty much know that we will makes mistakes on the first protos... to quote Donald Rumsfeld, "there are unknown unknowns"
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Just another quick one, to all who wish to answer what products do you guys want to see coming soon? I know you can't say all that you have in the pipeline but there must be something you'd all like to see/do bike wise?
  • + 1
 Chris: WIllm, is that to us or the others logged in? If directed at CC, I can tell you that we'll keep pushing the envelope to make your rides the best they can be, whatever form that may take!
  • + 1
 No it's to you guys! Just wondering if there were projects or ideas that you'd like to see become a reality not necessarily by you guys but in the general bike world!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I love that you guys have a "base tunes" section on your site, but there's no info in it for the Knolly Podium - either the new 2012 version or the older model. Any chance we might get some soon?
  • + 1
 Josh: 100% chance, for both DBcoil and DBair
  • + 1
 Awesome! How soon?
[Reply]
  • + 1
 hi cane creek Smile i have a cane creek double barrel on my intense m6, the ccdb i have is silver with a metalic red piggy back ? pics on my profile ! my question is.... is it a prototype?
  • + 1
 Josh: Where did you obtain said shock? Please contact Malcolm at Cane Creek for a replacement - 800-234-2725

This shock if not sent back immediately will result in perpetual impotence.
  • + 1
 are you having a laugth ?
  • + 2
 Josh: Yes. But seriously, send it back.
  • + 1
 so your having me on! not sumthink i would expect from a company. so what do i have ? is a proto? does it not work properly where they made and then called back? whats the problem with me owning this?
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I like to do all the maintenance on my Boxxer WC forks (all the way down to replacing o-rings on the damper and air shock). Why don't you want us going into our CCDB's to do the same service?
  • + 1
 Gary: ReductiMat, servicing a CCDB requires some specialized tools and training. All of our Authorized Service Centers have had training on rebuilds; you can find their information on our web site.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I need help to adjust my Shock. I have the 7in travel shock and i have it on my freeride bike. I weigh roughly 175 and id like to soften the compression some. Any suggestions on amount of clicks and whatnot?
  • - 3
 Josh: whoa, whoa, easy on the details!

Our Tuning Field Guide was made for you - www.canecreek.com/resources/products/suspension/double-barrel/DB_Field_guide.pdf
  • + 1
 Chris: Hawaii, it depends on which bike you're talking about. Have you checked out our recommended settings on the web site, or become a Lounge Lizard? www.canecreek.com/products/suspension
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Any chance of a simple entry level rear air shock in the future? Prefefably for those on a budget...? It would be good to see more adjustable shocks at the bottom of the price range Smile
  • + 1
 Chris: Thanks for the suggestion!
  • + 2
 Holly: Thanks for your question Jamie, at this point our focus is on premium level suspension.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 What are the differences between the DB Air and the DB coil as far as how they handle and what types of riding they are good for?
  • + 1
 I am curious about the same thing. At Rampage a lot of guys running air shocks. What is the advantage? More specifically, should someone who rides a Demo 8 II such as myself ever be considering going to DB Air?
  • + 3
 Josh: Man, I could go dissertation style on this one... must refrain...
The DBcoil is the preferred choice for DH racing and any situation where traction is of paramount importance. Most bikes created to excel in these situations have progressive suspension kinematics and thus play well with the DBcoil.
The DBair, while perfectly race worthy, can also be setup to be really playful. This can be more fun (IMHO) for park riding. Also, any bike that is not significantly progressive in leverage ratio, should use the DBair.

As far as Rampage - Doerfling and Buehler just prefer the DBair. It would be hard to conclude much from that for applicability though. When was the last time you dropped 50ft in a tank top?

On the DBair for the Demo 8 - We ride 'em this way, but not quite ready for primetime.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I have a morewood makulu with a 10.5 inch ccdb shock. Coil version. The coil is a 250pounds.

There seems to be about 1 or 2 mm of play in the shock. Should I get it serviced? Could it hurt the shock?
  • + 1
 Sounds like it is probably your DU bushings, which become worn over time and are usually the cause of such play.
  • + 1
 Malcolm: Give us a call to discuss, as we need to do some diagnosis: 800.234.2375
  • + 1
 Jim: +1 to Tim's response. Also, make sure that you have at least a full turn of preload on the spring to make sure that it's not free at top out.

If it's not the bushings, the spring, or even the suspension pivots then something is bad the matter and you should send the damper in to your local service center for a thorough going over.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 what measures have you guys taken to stop the coil form rubbing on the shock body of the CCDB (coil)?
Is this something that I just have to get used to?
  • + 1
 Malcolm:
Make sure the open end of the spring's coil is not grabbing the open end of the lower spring retainer. You want these 180 degrees apart from each other. Also try re-mounting the spring upside down.
  • + 1
 I don't believe this will resolve the problem. It seems like the ID (Inside Diameter) of the spring is too close to the OD (Outside Diameter) of the shock body.
So far, solutions to this problem that I've seen on the hill are - a light layer of grease on the plastic shock body casing every 3-4 hard rides, -remove the casing all together and risk mangling those beautiful gold threads, or ride with music loud enough to drown out that horrible used mattress squeak that the shock generates.

Malcom?
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I have one of your angle sets for my DH bike, and I love it! The only thing is I find it is quite noisy (Creaking etc.). Is there any way of combating this, apart from greasing it up? (Installation tips maybe?)
  • + 2
 Chris: Correct installation of AngleSet is key, as you have guessed. The best bet is to click over to our Tech Section of our web site to view installation videos and tips! www.canecreek.com/tech-center/headsets/manuals Thanks for the question!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I may be changing frame soon which has a different Eye-to-Eye measurement than my current frame. Is it possible to get the shaft changed in my DB Coil to make for a longer Eye-to-Eye, or will I need a whole new shock?
  • + 1
 Chris: The mechanics of changing shaft sizes make it such that it's cost-prohibitive, and a change-over is basically a whole new shock -- I'm afraid you will need to purchase a new one. Thanks for the question!
  • + 1
 There's a shame. Thanks anyway! Smile
  • + 1
 Josh: secondtimeuser - give Malcolm a call (800.234.2725) - there are some sizes that are easier to change.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Is it normal for oil to come out where my compression and rebound screws are on my DB? When I first set up my shock on my demo and added compression and rebound some oil came out from where the screws screw into. Thanks.
  • + 2
 Malcolm:
Where is the leak from?
At times we can have an oring burp when the High speed adjuster is turned but this is not a leak of all fluid it’s more like a drop of oil. This can look worse if the shock is warm from riding, the grease we use to build the shock is also mixed in the adjuster threads and this can run down the shock. This can look like a lot of oil if the shock is warm or hot from riding – Think oil in a hot pan. The shock is usually fine.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 How critical is getting an Angle Set centered on a frame and what procedure do you recommend to finding the center of a frame?
  • + 2
 Chris: Absolutely critical! Correct installation of AngleSet is key - don't be afraid to pull it apart and re-install it. The best bet is to click over to our Tech Section of our web site to view installation videos and tips! www.canecreek.com/tech-center/headsets/manuals Thanks for the question!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Hey CC Staff, I have an Intense M9(w/ CCDB Coil) that's a year old and I try and ride it a couple times a month. Now with that much seat time and 3 Mammoth trips, When should I get the shock rebuilt with seals, oil, etc??
  • + 1
 Eric: We recommend a full service from one of our Authorized Service Centers at least once a year. (DB Air seal service 2x/year, damper yearly.) They'll get your CCDB running like butter ...
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Do you have a base tune for the ccdbair on a 2012 orange five. I've joined the forum and emailed seperately but not heard anything yet.
  • + 2
 Holly: Who did you email? I will have them flogged. We are working on this tune - see my response to HarryakaDave.
  • + 1
 I emailed the info@canecreek address. Thanks for the quick reply that's great to know you are working on it.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Is there a difference between the CCDB coil that Malcolm Hadley is pictured holding and the current CCDB coil?
Is it just looks or are there internal changes as well?
  • + 1
 Malcolm:
Yeah that's an old picture with a 2009 era shock. Older graphics and old crusty Malcolm - the internals would be the same.
  • + 1
 Haha thanks for the answer Malcolm
  • + 3
 Jim: We know your internals are same Malcolm but what about the shock?
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Is the CCDB Air recommended for the Intense M9 frame?
AND
What is the weight difference between the CCDB Air and a CCDB with Ti spring?
[Reply]
  • + 1
 For those of us with Demo 8 frames with CCDB's, how much will it cost to get our shocks upgraded to the 9.5mm damper shaft? Thanks!
  • + 1
 Holly: Give us a call and we can walk you through your options. 800.234.2725
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Are you going to look at making the adjusters on the CCDB adjustable without a tool?
  • + 2
 Jim: we have looked at this but to date we have found that the disadvantages of making this happen outweigh the advantages. It's on our radar but we aren't willing to compromise adjustability or frame-fit to make it happen.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Cane Creek previously made the DB in a 6.5x1.5", but it is no longer listed on the CC website. Is it possible to "special order" a 6.5x1.5" DB or possible a DBair??
  • + 1
 Jim: emna69, right you are. Unfortunately this size is now most common on short travel bikes where our damper is not often used. So the economics of the thing kicked in and we can no longer support this size for the DBCoil as we once could.

For the DBAir we skipped this size entirely during the design phase. So for now you're out of luck unless you find a used 165/38 from an older generation.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Howdy folks.... Would I notice any difference between my db coil (ti) and Adblock air on my 951cc? .... Love my coil tho... Thx
[Reply]
  • + 1
 "Angleset "I've put grease, I've used plummer tape, I even talk to it nicely but the noise is still there, I'm used to it by now ...
  • + 2
 Chris: Correct installation of AngleSet is key - don't be afraid to pull it apart and re-install it. The best bet is to click over to our Tech Section of our web site to view installation videos and tips! www.canecreek.com/tech-center/headsets/manuals Thanks for the question!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 can u do a 'test trial' for all pinkbike users with the dbair? if we mail u our adress, u send it to us and we test. il even send u feddback !!!!!!!! Smile
  • + 2
 Holly: Welcome to the Family!!! Just send me $650 USD in unmarked bills with a self-addressed, stamped box.
  • + 1
 hahah... well USD bills are kinda hard to come by here in norway... but it seems we have entered into the barter system!
I can send u 3 kilos of salmon... or a bit of crude oil?? there seems to be plenty of that here... il even throw in a horned viking helmet for good measure... that should be a fair trade?!? Smile
  • + 2
 Holly: I softened at the Viking Helmet....keep talking.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 How about a light weight 40mm stantion plush 200mm duel crown fork?? I like the light wight feel but also the duability of 40mm forks
[Reply]
  • + 1
 How do i line up the angleset cups perfectly? Is there a certain way to do this or just by eyeball? And if it is just a bit off will that cause harm?
  • + 1
 Gary: Check out our installation videos on the Tech section of our web site -- that step is critical to good installation! No harm, but you don't want it knocking either!
[Reply]
  • + 3
 have you ever shot someone with a double barrel ?
  • + 2
 Gary: It's hunting season here in the mountains, blaze orange is the order of the day ...
  • + 1
 Jim: we here at Cane Creek try our utmost to avoid pulling a Cheney.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I have heard that the shaft on the newer ccdb spring is a little bigger than previous when I bought mine for a Demo. Is this true? If so why did the size change?
  • + 1
 Josh: As of August 2012, all DBcoil shocks that will be used on bikes with a "shaft extension" (Demo 8, Enduro EVO, LaPierre Spicy, etc) are getting 9.5mm damper shafts (up from 8mm). This was done as a precautionary measure for the potentially higher bending loads.
  • + 1
 Thats cool, thank you very much!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I would like to see a coil sprung shock designed for 4" to 5" travel cross country bikes. Or a smaller version of your DB shocks for the same application.
  • + 1
 Chris: Trundle, thanks for the suggestion! We love hearing what riders want to see from us. Keep 'em coming!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Cane Creek: Nascar, F1, or Moto GP, Whats the shops consensus? Alos what other industries (if any) do you guys serve, and at what level?
  • + 1
 Eric: Moto GP. But Chris is a NASCAR fan. We're all over the place here!
  • + 3
 Pete: Formula 1. Benissimo!
  • + 2
 Chris: We're located about 2 hours from the heart of NASCAR country. Yee-haw!
  • + 3
 Holly: Did you see Kasey Kahne in ESPN Magazine - I'm now a fan for life.
Josh: Moto GP
Jim: Formula 1
Scott: I like the one that Dannika Patrick races in.
  • + 1
 Jim: We do a lot of work with Ohlins and their TTX20 damper for FSAE competition...by a lot of work I mean we make it. Other than that we also supply DBs and headsets to all kinds of markets including trikes, sit-ski, unmanned robotic boats, it's a very interesting business.
  • + 1
 Right on, world class operation
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Hi guys i have the problem of that i am very light and are my rear shock is not sagging enough for my liking!
what do you think i should try i am on a 350 pound spring?
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Couldn't seem to get the ccdb to work like I was hoping on a pivot phoenix is there any chance the air version might work better or is the humped curve a bit of a pia?
  • + 1
 Josh: Hmmm... there is no reason why this should be the case. Did you try: www.canecreek.com/resources/products/suspension/double-barrel/DB_Field_guide.pdf

Also, our CS dept is available to assist you 800.234.2725

I don't know if the DBair fits in the "shock hole" on the Phoenix - I need to look into that.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 so cane creek, where's the double barrel air in 7.875 x 2" ... I've been waiting
  • + 1
 Gary: It's available now, contact your local bike shop. Thanks!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 What´s the service interval you guys recommend for a DB Air, since I do a lot of DH on all types of terrains and conditions (yes, lots of mud and rain riding too)?
  • + 2
 Chris: For DB Air, we recommend a seal rebuild at least every 6 months, with a full service from an Authorized Service Center at least once per year. For your riding conditions, that seal service may be needed more often. Thanks for the question!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 @Jim M.

I was curious to know what you thought of my design 'changes' from a couple of years ago?
Can be found here:

www.pinkbike.com/photo/4773760
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I keep blowing up my proprietary fox rear shock on a 2012 stumpy comp. Is there any chance the CCDBair from the newer s-works enduros could fit onto my bike? Thanks.
  • + 1
 Josh: We do not currently have a shock that will fit any Stumpy's. Apologies...
  • + 1
 Any plans on making that a reality in the future? Although my rp23 has been great, it would be nice to have options..
  • + 1
 Sounds a lot better than a flat out "no", good to hear there's hope!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Great to see a company like this offering so much info/advice, and taking on board what the customers want. Even better that you all have a good sense of humour
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I would buy a 200 mm dual crown in a heartbeat from you guys! your work is amazing! keep it up!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 other than weight what are the advantages / disadvantages of the CCDB air vs CCDB coil with ti spring?
  • + 4
 Chris: We view the CCDB and the DB Air as two separate conversations. Suspension designs and leverage curves being what they are, the way a coil or an air behave are very different. What it comes down to, is what is your bike optimized for? If it's a coil bike, then CCDB is probably your best bet. If your bike is meant for an air spring, then DB Air is your go-to choice. There are ways to make your Air behave more like a coil on some bikes, but optimizing for your bike design is a good place to start. Thanks for the question!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 What are the chances of getting a 216x54mm Cane Creek Double Barrel Air shock?
  • + 2
 Josh: slim to none. What bike is this for?
  • + 1
 Think you guys are gone so it doesn't matter, but a 2011 Specialized Enduro Evo. Pretty Awesome bike that could be made better with individual oil circuits and a little less weight, but not worth the $400 upgrade to a 2013 frame with DB Air.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Why is no one build a Sealed drive bike before?
www.pinkbike.com/buysell/1104108
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Quick question: Will Enduro ACB 36 x 45 SS bearings fit my Angleset ZS49?
  • + 1
 Chris: That AngleSet would take 41mm x 7mm bearings, so if that's the size then they should. All of our AngleSet bearings (41mm or 52mm) are the same as those found in our standard headsets. Thanks for the question!
  • + 1
 hey guys do you sell 1.5 headset bearings which are 36 x 36 degrees and 7mm deep?There for my GT fury main pivot bearings.Thanks
  • + 1
 Our 52mm (1.5") bearings are 36x45 and 6.5mm deep, sorry.
  • + 1
 Ok no worries,the search goes on lol,these bearings seem to be as rare as the holy grail
  • + 1
 Jim: yep, Enduro bearings will fit. Their chamfers are a little different than ours so the cover to gimbal gap will vary by 0.25mm or so but no big deal.
  • + 2
 Just beware the Killer Rabbit of Caerbannog and you'll be good. Cheers!
  • + 2
 Thanks for the reply
[Reply]
  • + 2
 I would want to see a 3,5kg fork with DB damping and 300mm of travel Big Grin
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I was wondering, how would changing out my fox rc4 for a ccdb coil benefit my ride Thanks
  • + 1
 Josh - Change your ride? It'll change your life!

But seriously, if you call us (800.234.2725) with your bike make/model/year we can help.

Thanks
  • + 1
 Really? Would it really make that much of a difference? I'm riding an 08 orange 224 (not Evo version)
  • + 1
 Josh: The guys at Orange can comment on this...
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I'm looking at completing a xc build this winter. Would the db be good for a full sus. XC or what? Thanks.
  • + 2
 Chris: Your first issue might be fit -- the DB Air doesn't fit on some shorter-travel bikes. Even if it does fit, the shock is really optimized for 5+ inches of travel -- it's an incredible all-mountain ride, but may not be the best choice for XC racing. Your call -- get a test ride if you can!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Could you please make me a shock to replace my Fox DRCV on the Trek Fuel EX?
  • + 1
 Jim: Eric in customer service has a setup like this on his Fuel EX so it is possible but it takes some doing. We're looking into making this a marketable setup. Stay tuned.
  • + 1
 Chris: Thanks for the suggestion!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 A full list of compatibility of rear shocks with at least last 4 years frames would be great for potential buyers.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 can i have a sponsorship?
  • + 2
 completely kidding
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Would like to upgrade my inset headset. 2010 Giant trance/ 1' 1/18 revelation XX thanks eh
  • + 1
 Chris: Depends on the Trance. If it's a straight headtube, you need the ZS44|ZS44/30; if it's tapered, then the ZS44|ZS56/30 (conversion) is the ticket. These are available in both 110 and 40-Series. Thanks for the question!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 why are the reviews for the double barrel airs so bad? was it made to compete against the vivid air?
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Is there any way to still buy replacement parts for the Cane Creek Zonos wheelset?
  • + 2
 Chris: Cane Creek exited the wheel business some 5 years ago, and we no longer have replacement parts. That said the bearings were from Enduro, and can be purchased off the shelf; likewise, straight-pull spokes are available from dealers and distributors worldwide. As for spoke nipples, the Bontrager design works with our wheels, and if you're really interested, 3T has re-introduced the Cane Creek design for road wheels. Thanks for your question!
  • + 1
 cool. thanks!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 is there a Cane creek double barrel air available for the Lapierre Zesty 314 2012?
[Reply]
  • + 2
 How would a CCDB perform on a Canfield Jedi?
  • + 1
 Just to piggy back, and Not a professional advice, but I ran a DB coil on my 2011 Jedi. It was amazing, once I figured out the bugs and got it dailed. Which really took a while. Now on a 2012 Jedi with a DB air, and I've had it for a month and a half, so still in the process of Dailing it in.

My question, to add to this is, can you guys put a baseline setup for the Canfield Jedi on your site in teh DB Coil/Air lounge. Just so we have something to go off of. Especailly since the jedi has 3 different shock poisitoins which affect the rate of the travel from progressive to linear.

Thanks
  • + 3
 Malcolm:

The Jedi and DB do play well together. Feel free to post up your settings in the lounge, it would be great to compare with others.
We are still digging into the Jedi.
  • + 1
 Thanks alot for the response!
  • + 3
 The CCDB coil has been one of our favorite shocks with the Jedi with the open valving nature of the shock. We also have quite a few customers super stoked with the DB Air on it as well!
  • + 3
 Josh: Canfield Bros - high five!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Hi Guys, have read comments con DB and DA for Enduros but how about SX Trails from 2009 - 2012? Thanks!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Hi Guys, have read comments con DB and DA for Enduros but how about SX Trails from 2009 - 2012? Thanks!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 could you fit a cane creek double barrel air or coil in an iron horse sunday frame with a modified bottom link?
  • + 3
 Chris: We don't recommend modifying anything that has to do with the shock or your frame. Thanks for the question!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 My question to cane creek is, Can I use a DBair-CS 215x63mm on my yeti 2011 ASR7?
[Reply]
  • + 1
 What is the Diameters/Parameters & Width for the Bianchi oltre xr2 headset 1.1/8" Acb Top bearing 1.5" Acb Btm bearings?
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Hey.
I have a v10 carbon with a fox 40 fork. My angleset bearings are bad and i need new.
What kind do i need?
  • + 1
 Chris: casdude, the bearings in the AngleSet are the same as those found in all Cane Creek headsets to make them easier to service. Visit your local bike shop to determine size and they can help you out. Thanks for the question!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 For forks it would be good to see xfusion prices and marizochi durability and performance
  • + 1
 ill ride my 888 till i cant anymore i love it! the older Italian made ones seem stronger if you take care of them,love mine. marzochhi is great,id love to see a CC fork.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Whats your relationship with Ohlins?
  • + 5
 Malcolm: it was consensual
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I am currently a college student Dual majoring in mechanical and electrical engineering. Do you offer Co-ops or internships?
  • + 1
 Holly: We do - send your resume.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 What is the difference between the Cane Creek DB and the Rock Shox Vidid? Is one better than the other? If so, why?
  • + 3
 Josh: Loaded question. From my totally unbiased opinion, I'm leaning towards the Cane Creek.

The main functional difference between the Vivid and the DBs (both coil and air flavors) is in the way the damping fluid is ported inside the shocks. In fact, this is the main difference between all other bike shocks and the DBs. The Double Barrel shocks use a twin tube design, where the main damping is achieved through externally adjustable valving. All other shocks use the main damper piston as the primary source of damping.

Side note - One should use the word 'damping' whenever talking about fluid dynamics, hydraulics, system dynamics, etc. The word 'dampening' should be reserved for discussions about getting wet.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 What's the story on the lever on the DBair picture from one of the recent bike trade shows?
  • + 1
 Holly: That is a quick-flip lever that we created specific to the 2013 Specialized Enduro. Basically it is a fast Low Speed Compression adjustment. Nothing fancy.
  • + 0
 Which brings us to the next question: any plans for a smaller air shock with a platform lever? Sort of a CCDB RP23?
  • + 1
 so.... any chance that can be a standard item or accessory? It'd be nice to be able to ramp up that low speed for climbs for those of us without an enduro as well...
  • + 1
 Holly: Not at this time, the lever is exclusively for Specialized.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Why do shocks look like toilet paper holders?
  • + 2
 Jim: Where would you keep your toilet paper if they didn't?
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Id like to know some settings for my CCDB for a Zerode? The Zerode isn't on your site.
  • + 1
 Eric: kanter, thanks -- have you become a Lounge Lizard yet? www.canecreek.com/products/suspension/lounge We're updating manufacturer recommended settings as quickly as we can, and in the meantime users are sharing settings for a wide variety of bikes!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Hey, I was wondering if the CCDB air shock would go well on a commencal V3 frame, and would set up help be available?
  • + 1
 *how much set up help would be available, I know it's there, just not to what extent
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Hi,

Will you add the rocky mountain flatline 2010+ in the basic setting for the ccdb coil?
  • + 1
 Malcolm: xiloti We are still gathering up the info on the Flatline. If you have a chance - post your setting up in the lounge, the settings from customers help us as well!
  • + 1
 Holly: My dream, my dream - see my answer to HarryakaDave.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Hey Cane Creek... Do you use any kind of hydraulic simulation / CFD tools for the development?
  • + 1
 What kind of software do you use? Do you have any special prepared shock for testing on a test bench? Whould be really nice to see some photos from your R&D departement. I´m working as an development engineering for mobile hydraulics and I`m really interested in that stuff Smile
  • + 3
 Josh: You do not have adequate security clearance
  • + 2
 Alrigh. Confidential stuff... I get it Wink
[Reply]
  • + 1
 The Double Barrel is really loud on my Demo 8. I've had it serviced but no luck. Any suggestions?
  • + 1
 Malcolm:
Can you explain what the noise is ? Spring rub can make squeaking sound.
  • + 1
 I believe it is the spring rubbing, any solutions?
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I own a 2011 banshee legend and it has a verry linear suspension. Which is better or the bike the db coil or the db air.
  • + 1
 Holly: Great bike - see our answer to flatline-pro-2.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 i ve got a CCDB on my morewood makulu and some time the spring rub the shock and make some noise, what that?
  • + 2
 Malcolm: Make sure the open end of the spring's coil is not grabbing the open end of the lower spring retainer. You want these 180 degrees apart from each other. Also try re-mounting the spring upside down. Thanks!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 What is a good recommended shock for the Santa Cruz Blur LT (2012 or newer)? Is the CCDBA too much?
  • + 1
 Jim: Benuntu, I am under marketing orders not to tip my hand too much but suffice it to say that we have an upcoming shock mod that will make the DBAir ideally suited to VPP bikes like the Blur LT, Nomad, and Intense Tracer 2.

That said, I personally own a 2009 Blur LTc with a DBAir and my afformentioned "mod" and it's rad. Definitly not too much shock for that bike!
  • + 1
 When will this shock mod be available? Is it easy to modify an existing DBAir? I'm riding an Intense Tracer 2 with a DBAir and have problems with the setup especially when climbing fire roads (back is sinking, bad climbing efficiency). So I'm switching back to the RP23 on rides with longer climbs. Thanks.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 you guys have the best customer service,great parts,when can i see a cane creek fork??? ever? tup Salute
  • + 1
 Holly: Thanks! See our post at the top-o-the-page.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 it would be nice to see a functioning dropper post that doesn't have the typical wear and play issues.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Are You guys going to branch out into gearing components e.g rear derailers?
  • + 1
 Chris: Johnny, we love hearing what you all want to see from us, thanks for the suggestion. Can you imagine a DB rear mech? :-)
[Reply]
  • + 1
 The stock shock is 7.25x1.75 on that Trance, can a dbair be made for this application?
  • + 1
 Malcolm: Sorry no options that size.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I just by a BD coil for my Yeti SB66 and I would like to know a base setting to start with?
Thanks
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Malcom

I just by a BD coil for my Yeti SB66 and I would like to know a base setting to start with?

Thanks
  • + 1
 Malcolm:
Give this a try - Open all adjusters counter clockwise. Be careful with the low speed adjusters they have small clicks, when you get near the end of the adjustment range and you feel resistance stop.

Turn Adjusters clockwise

HSR- 2.0-2.5 turns in from all out
LSR - 10-12 clicks from all out
HSC - 0.5-1.0 turns in from all out
LSC - 15-17 clicks in from all out
  • + 1
 thank's Malcom Last question I also have a Yeti 303 wc the 25th anniversary , and I'm planning to change the Fox with a DB coil as well can you give me a base setting on this as well Thank's again
  • + 1
 Malcolm: For that bike it would be best for you to use our Tuning Field Guide: www.canecreek.com/resources/products/suspension/double-barrel/DB_Field_guide.pdf
[Reply]
  • + 1
 What bands are ya'll most looking forward to on the Moogfest line-up this year?
  • + 1
 Eric: Miike Snow, Santigold, Gza ... the list goes on ...
  • + 1
 Gary: And y'all know it's pronounced "mohg-fest," not "moog-fest", right?
  • + 1
 Holly: Its a toss up - Thomas Dolby or Mike Snow.
  • + 1
 Jim: Justice is playing the civic center a few days prior too!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Hi CC do you have a base tune for DB AIR on a 2012 Nukeproof Mega ???
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Reason for my question I am dying to try a Ccdb either coil or air!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 When is the new fork gonna come out?
  • + 2
 Josh: we still have a lot of inventory of our old fork..

oh wait, see @cork
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Why doesn't Cane Creek have any distributors or service centers in Canada?
  • + 1
 Chris: enduro, Cane Creek products are distributed in Canada by Norco, and Norco is the service center for Double Barrel. Thanks for the question!
  • + 1
 Malcolm: Enduro - you can also hit up Suspension Werx in Vancouver for DB service.
  • + 1
 Vorsprung Suspension in Whistler also offers DB servicing.
  • + 1
 Malcolm: Vorsprung would not be an authorized Cane Creek service center.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 which model of angleset i need for my devinci wilson 2013 ?
  • + 3
 Chris: Assuming they haven't changed from their 2012 design, you're looking at the ZS49|EC56 AngleSet. Thanks for the question!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 why does it cost $60 to send a titanium spring to new zealand?
  • + 2
 the weight most likley
[Reply]
  • - 3
 How can my brand new CCDB mounted on my Norco aurum 2013 comes with loose DU bushings ? Pulling up on the bike saddle make em click like they are worn out already... I torqued shock bolts to spec. When i put my Fox RC4 with the same mounting hardware the it dosent happen ???

Also how come when i undo all my adjusting knobs the LSC one just spins endlessly ?

This is a BRAND NEW shock ????? Where is QC ????
  • + 1
 Malcolm:

Give our CS team a call 800 234 2725 - lets get you set up proper.
  • + 0
 My shock is already out for warranty service. I just find it sad to send a brand new shock in...
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Is it possible to fit a 1.5 fork into a 1.1/8 headtube?
[Reply]
  • + 1
 do you have a grassroots program?
  • + 16
 Holly: Interesting Username, is it the grass or the roots you are interested in?
  • + 1
 i get that so much. i wasnt thinking when i made my account. but really do you have a grassroots rider program
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Do you have any base tunes for a scalp with a CCDB coil?
  • + 1
 Malcolm:

Getting closer on this but we are waiting some data from the CRC riders.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 how much swag does cane creek have?
  • + 4
 Holly: As much as I can buy.
  • + 1
 Malcolm:
Josh has Knolly Tshirts......Me, just a bunch of crazy years gone by treasures.
  • + 1
 Jim: Holly's not lying, I haven't bought a t-shirt since I started working here.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Which us better cc db or fix dhx 5.0 whats the differebces
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Please give us a USD fork to match the DBA. Thanks
  • + 3
 Josh: You want a fork made from US Dollars? I have never thought of fabricating something from actual money, but not a bad idea...
  • + 1
 Since US dollars are not worth very much anymore, how about gold or silver? At least they will increase in value.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Is the air spring modification available now for the 8.5 x 2.5 DBA?
  • + 1
 Eric: Contact your nearest service center on that one -- contact info available on the web site. Thanks!
  • + 1
 Does it require an oil bleed?
[Reply]
  • + 1
 How much will the dbair be?
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Should I use BDair on a V10??? or a DB coil?
  • + 1
 Malcolm:
With the V10's travel settings, you may want to run the DB air so you don't have to swap out spring rates for different travel settings. Also if you want a more progressive/lively feel the DB air may be the choice.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Will you be developing a Kashima like coating for any of your shocks?
  • + 5
 Josh: We are always exploring technologies that improve Double Barrel function, so in that sense we are also exploring coatings. From our testing, our current coating technology (I guess we should name it) performs exactly as it should. We are not willing to weight form over function at our customer's expense. That is to say, sometimes the engineers actually win the battle with marketing at Cane Creek.
  • + 4
 Holly: Ha! I got you here today though didn't I????
[Reply]
  • + 1
 More bang for less buck. Cane creek should explore them options.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 will the DB coil or DB air fit in a 08' Giant Glory 0 frame? Thx Dan
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Is the double barrel air shock a good enduro rear shock?
  • + 8
 Josh: I think you meant to say, "Is the Double Barrel air shock the best enduro rear shock".

yes
[Reply]
  • + 1
 The lounge is hard to navigate. Does anyone else agree?
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Do I have to register to use the THE LOUNGE?
  • + 1
 Chris: Kanter, yes -- all you need is your CCDB serial number. Cheers!
  • + 1
 What if you don't own a CCBD and you just want to read up before you buy one?
  • + 1
 Holly: Sorry - there are lots of resources on our website and reviews online....The Lounge is for the VIPS. Join us!!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Will a DB air fit onto a 2012 Demo 8?
  • + 1
 Holly: We are working on that - see Josh's answer to Lexatron14
  • + 0
 Are you going to release a DBair to the public for the demo8 soon?
[Reply]
  • + 1
 What shock works better for a 2010 Demo 8. The DB coil or air?
  • + 3
 Malcolm: We haven't built a production DB air for the Demo 8 II model yet. However we have ridden the bike with both DBair and coil shocks.
It really comes down to rider choice, the DB air will give you more feedback/pop due to the progression of the air spring. Many riders prefer that feel plus the DB air would lighter. Now, we have to actually have a production DB air for the Demo II to have this choice....
Hopefully in the next month or so.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Why are the piston rods on the Double Barrel coil so small in diameter?
  • + 1
 Malcolm:
Hey Alex, Most other shocks have a rebound adjuster contained in the shock shaft. This requires a larger diameter shaft because the inside is hollow. The Double Barrel's rebound adjusters are in the cylinder head so a smaller diameter solid shaft can be used. To get even more complicated, most other shocks rely on the oil displaced by the shaft as it enters the shock body to provide external damping adjustment. The shaft has to be made artificially large to provide even a minimal adjustment range. The Double Barrel is different. It does not rely on the oil displaced by the shaft to provide external damping adjustment so having a smaller diameter shaft doesn't reduce adjustability.
  • + 1
 You have the wrong assumption, if you think the DB coil shock is weaker due to the thinner shaft! It's a solid shaft and not a hollow thin walled tube. Another positive item, less stiction/friction, due to less surface area on the thinner shaft.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 What is your favorite kind of mac and cheese? Do you add anything to it?
  • + 1
 Chris: The mac and cheese from 12 Bones is the bomb!
  • + 1
 Holly: My secret recipe with brazilian bacon on top!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Jim: emna69, right you are. Unfortunately this size is now most common on short travel bikes where our damper is not often used. So the economics of the thing kicked in and we can no longer support this size for the DBCoil as we once could.

For the DBAir we skipped this size entirely during the design phase. So for now you're out of luck unless you find a used 165/38 from an older generation.
[Reply]
  • - 1
 My angleset seems to creak
  • + 1
 Chris: Correct installation of AngleSet is key. The best bet is to click over to our Tech Section of our web site to view installation videos and tips! www.canecreek.com/tech-center/headsets/manuals Thanks for the question!
  • + 2
 Do you guys plan on creating a coating like the other companies?
[Reply]
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