And the DW-Link goes to...Turner Bikes!

Sep 4, 2008 at 16:00
Sep 4, 2008
by Kip Denoyer  
 
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After years of collaboration and months of anticipation and secrecy, it has finally become official that the next company to use DW-Link and build the next DW-Link downhill bike is Turner Bikes.

Check out their 2009 line up:

Here are DW's own words where he explains how the DHR, and other new Turner bikes have improved and his reasons for moving to Turner:

Everyone who has spent time on the interwebs and cycling forums knows that the Turner homers are some of the most passionate and opinionated riders to ever ride and scrutinize a bicycle. As someone who thrives on riding and scrutinizing bicycles, I am thrilled to join your family.

Thanks to all of you who have sent kind words of support, encouragement, and excitement about the dw-link / Turner partnership. I’m as excited as you are. Many of you who know me, either in person or through years of talking on forums, know that Turner has been one of the brands that I’ve really looked up to since I first got into mountain bikes in the late ‘90s. I’ve always been a big fan of the Turner hallmarks of quality, straightforward design, and customer service. I think that this new dw-linked line really will help keep that tradition going. As a rider, I can say that the Turner dw-links are each as individually unique as the dw-link designs used by Ibis and Pivot. I urge you to test the bikes, whatever opinion you hold from a picture or prior experience will be backed up with real, live experience. I am looking forward to hearing all of the homer feedback. To that end, I’ll be available at the Turner, IBIS, and Pivot booths at Interbike and Dirt Demo for Q&A, general grilling, and hopefully a lot more talk about great rides than the finer points of rear suspension..

I’ve briefly scanned the hundreds and hundreds of posts / questions that have popped up since yesterday on the multitude of boards. I will try to answer some of the more commonly occurring questions that I saw.

- Can you switch links back and forth between different dw-link Turner models?

A: Nope, dw-link is a lot more reliant on specific pivot location and kinematic layout than FSR or TNT. The ability to tune and characterize dw-link’s comparatively complex anti-squat and wheel rate curves comes through closely calibrated suspension geometry. Even very small changes, less than 2mm, can have major and unplanned effects on performance.

- Will the Turner dw-links ride like other dw-link bikes that I have ridden?

A: The development of a new dw-link bike is a collaborative affair. For the Turner bikes, the process starts with frame geometry developed by DT himself. This is the first part that gives each bike a unique Turner personality. All dw-link bikes ever made share one common factor. I was responsible for the development of the suspension kinematics for each of these bikes. Whether it’s an Iron Horse, Ibis, Pivot, Turner, or IF, the how’s and why’s of the dw-link suspension begin and end here. So from one standpoint, the bikes are going to ride similarly in some respects, but for the most part they are all very different.

The heart of the dw-link system is its position sensitive anti-squat, and this is shared by all dw-link platforms. There is a very wide range of variability in wheel rate possible within the dw-link system, and I use this to help create each unique suspension bike’s personality. I work hand in hand with each manufacturer to help them realize their idea of what the ultimate suspension bike feels like on the trail. Based on the feedback that I gathered from talking with and riding with Dave Turner and his trusted advisors, I developed wheel rates and ultimately leverage rates to give us the “feel” that we were looking for.

The realization of these ideas on “feel” are what makes each bike special. For example, an Ibis Mojo was engineered to have a coil-like feel using a lightweight air shock, a Pivot Mach 4 was made to have a racy XC feel with very neutral braking, and a Turner 5-Spot was designed to eat small bumps and still take the big hit.

- I think that the bikes look sweet, ugly, like IH bikes, like a Turner, etc

A: I think that this is another area that really lets a company like Turner showcase their abilities. If you put these bikes in a lineup of 100 frames, I could pick them out as Turners instantly. Round downtubes, CNC pivot blocks, bushing pivots, square chainstays and seatstays? I can think of only one manufacturer that combines these elements. The bikes are uniquely Turner, and in a world of swoops and forming I think that they are refreshing.

Someone commented that this is what the dw-link Iron Horse line would have looked like moving forward. To all of the you who commented really like the look of the Iron Horse dw-link bikes, thanks for the nice complement, these were my babies, and I developed every inch of them from the ground up. They were my first (and for now I am content to say last) attempt at styling a whole line. For sure there are things that I would have liked to do differently, but the situation at IH did not allow that. Either way, I am proud of those bikes and it was a great experience for me. If I had decided to allow IH to continue building dw-link bikes, they would have been much different looking than the Turner bikes. Aside from the general dw-link layout the similarities would have ended there.

- Is the DHR a new Sunday etc

Back in 2000 and 2001, when I really was heavily into developing dw-link, I spent more time than I should have posting on the MTBR forums about the finer points of suspension design. During that time, the number one downhill bike that I recommended to riders was the DHR. I knew when I designed the Sunday that this was the benchmark. Since then it seems like the Sunday has become the new downhill benchmark, but I still thought that I could improve upon it based on my experience on the World Cup circuit and feedback from many talented riders. Think of the new DHR as an evolution of the ideas that made both the DHR and Sunday successful.

The things that I specifically put attention into with the new DHR include:

- a pretty nifty dual progressive leverage rate curve that is supple in the early travel, with the end travel ramp that the Sunday lacked.
- modified spring rates, so that a 155 lb rider will now use a 350lb spring rather than a 300lb spring. This will give lighter riders more tuning options.
- lighter weight layout. The Sunday was impressively light, but this bike’s frame takes it to a new level in my opinion. Alone it weighs in the 7’s, and in the low 8’s with shock. Its light and strong at the same time.

Dave



I'm sure everybody wants to see the bikes now:
DHR


DHR Geo


RFX


RFX Geo


5 Spot


5 Spot Geo


Sultan 29


Sultan 29 Geo


Flux


Flux Geo


The Highline is missing from the lineup, maybe in the future we will see whether there are any plans for it.

The 2009 Turner website is up as well.

-runner.pinkbike.com
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91 Comments

  • + 16
 sooo sick. thats gunna be a nice ride. hope to see one soon
  • + 2
 will also be going to pivot bikes
  • + 5
 WOW i thought giant bought it but this is sick Smile
  • + 5
 Giant made a bike with hints from it but did not actually buy it from Dave Weagle.
  • + 0
 The glory is similar but its pretty different, same concept though. The new Turners bikes are sexy cant wait to ride one.
  • - 22
 WHATS IRON HORSE BIKES GONNA LOOK LIKE for 09 ???
  • - 14
 iron horse is going to be selling only mass production bikes after 2008 or 2009. cant remember which one
  • - 13
 sooo nice. anyone know though if Sam Hills going over to turner now or is he going to stick with iron horse? hopefully they don't make all there full suspension frames with DW super expensive.
  • + 4
 ya know i hadnt thought about giving TURNER the DW of all people. But really, there is no one more suited for it. And IH will be going with there own version of ABP next year BTW.
  • - 6
 THE DHR LOOKS SO AWESOME EERRRGGGAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • + 1
 Giant has the maestro setup which is damn near the same thing as the DW setup. If they release a Highline with the DW then youll find my 07 in the classified section right after. On the DHR, at 8 pounds you could throw a dual chainring on that thing and ride like a billygoat.
  • - 2
 if you guys want to see a pic of the new ironhorse sunday check out my profile - got a pic from a friend
  • + 5
 I like it, but I think their is too much hype over it already. Everyone thinks it's the sickest thing right now. But tomorrow they'll see another new bike and it'll be the sickest thing. It's just kind of dumb in my mind to get all hyped up over something that 90% of the "sickest ever" croud will actually buy. So calm down, their will be some super sweet bike just around the corner from another company, and all of the sudden all the attention will focus on it.
  • + 2
 and by 90 % will buy I mean 10% of those people will buy...
  • - 9
 Tyler Morland is gonna kill it on those bike
  • + 2
 Ironhorse will be using ICT suspension after 2009 from what I hear (Ellseworth suspension). Those turners in turn will be insane expensive I'd say!
  • + 2
 hahahah ironhorse are going to be boned!
  • + 3
 Naw, IH have always fielded great DH teams, no matter what frame options they have had. Fact is even a single pivot can compete with a virtual one on the DH circuit. I own a sunday and love it but Sam Hill will always be Sam Hill. Whoever gets the top guys is going to kick ass, whatever linkage Smile Just look at how well comencal are doing.
  • + 0
 WOW, I can't believe turner is finally moving on from the walking'beam style suspension! (now if only kona would follw suit)
  • + 0
 this turner is waaay sicker than any glory. i wish i would have wited for this dhr instead of buying an 08
[Reply]
  • + 4
 It doesn't matter what bike Sam Hill is going to be riding guys. Seriously, can't you see past it? As long as he is on one of the current dh race bike offerings (many offerings there are), he will be riding the same as ever. It doesnt matter, history has shown this. Think about it. Look into racing history folks..
[Reply]
  • + 1
 dbrfreerider16 is right, ironhorse sold the DWlink to turner and they are only going to make mass market bikes along with schwinn and i think mongoose after 2009. For bike shops its to hard to sell bikes that have schwinn, ironhorse, and mongoose on their downtube because the consumers see what they think is the same bike at target, walmart, or cosco for a fraction of the cost. Plus the companies will make much larger margins by selling non-IBD shop quality bikes. Good move for them but unfortunatly not for us. The DHR looks like its going to be a sick bike!!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I do not know why every one keeps raving about 8lbs - that would be great but the geometry specs page on the Turner site specifically states 9.5lbs, which while not heavy is nothing special. SOCOM FRO is the benchmark for a light strong useable frame at 8.5 lbs.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I like how he went on about how Turner bikes are great and traditional with round down-tubes and how they don't need fancy sweeping tubes and hydroforming, and then the first two bikes are swoopy-tubed and hydroformed-looking! Not that I care, they look awesome, but it is rather ironic.
[Reply]
  • + 0
 what about Rotec The RL9 is newest concentric based, floating rear shock design utilizing “Mert Lawwill’s” suspension technology with 9 inches of travel? Which one works more effectly in terms of eating small and big pumps on the trails.
[Reply]
  • + 4
 man i wish i knew how much this was going to cost
[Reply]
  • + 0
 why does it say in here low 8's for frame + shock but on the turner website it reads 9.5 does anyone know whats the correct wheight because 9.5 is more average than impressive
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I would like to see a picture of the DHR on a scale...8 lbs with a shock for a DH bike(That is still stiff) would be impressive.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 An already sick bike just got a whole lot better! Congratulations Turner
[Reply]
  • + 1
 can someone please explain me the technological difference between DW link on RFX frame and Maestro on Gaint Reign?!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 YES it went to a company that deserves it! thank god it didnt go to norco
  • + 1
 Funny, you seem to dislike the company that handles Haro. Secondly the 09 Norco stuff has been up for a few weeks now why is everyone so suprised that they aren't runing the DW link. I will say that the DW link rids amazingly well, rode one of the Ibis sl's we got in and I was suprised that I couldn't feel any chain tug at the pedals, unlike the giants and SC, dispite the amount of chain growth that they have
[Reply]
  • + 1
 and at only around 8lbs with shock thats madd lighttt
[Reply]
  • + 1
 no, but turner sales are going to boom..
[Reply]
  • + 1
 i like the DHM the most but the rest are cool
  • + 1
 DHR*** sorry
[Reply]
  • + 0
 dhr looks like crap. blah blah blah, sure it rides fantastic, still don't like it
[Reply]
  • + 0
 The rfx looks so sick! Do i spot a rear maxxle on it??
[Reply]
  • + 0
 Awesome. So now what will Iron horse do?
[Reply]
  • + 1
 And will Sam follow?
[Reply]
  • + 1
 website says 9.5 pounds
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I WANT A DHR!!
[Reply]
  • + 0
 i want that dhr its sooo sexy!
[Reply]
  • - 1
 Sam Hill will either be riding for mongoose or trek in the upcoming season.
  • + 2
 wtf? thats unbeliveable
  • + 1
 That has not been confirmed
[Reply]
  • - 1
 IT STILL LOOKS LIKE A DEMO 8, 2008 MODELS(THE FRONT TRIANGLE). TURNER IS A COPY CAT.
[Reply]
  • - 2
 I wanted a 2008 DHR as my first DH Rig, now I would have to sell a Kidney to buy the 2009 version as it looks waaaay better. Turner Rocks!!!
[Reply]
  • + 0
 Which bike shops sell Turner in Alberta?
  • + 0
 Mountain Bike City on 17th Ave.
  • + 0
 AND COULIOUR IN CANMORE!!!!
[Reply]
  • + 0
 Turner where already sexy now, there are super sexy!!!
[Reply]
  • - 2
 where the hell can I get one of those frames? Big Grin

I already have checked the Turner website and prices are TBD Frown
[Reply]
  • - 2
 I love how so many people had the 'inside information' with the DW Link going to Trek/Giant/etc.
[Reply]
  • - 1
 soooooooooooooooo sick!!!!!!
[Reply]
  • + 0
 it does look like a demo
[Reply]
  • - 1
 Dam that thing is sharp looking. Cant wait to see it in production.
[Reply]
  • - 3
 so is it a full floater design?
  • - 2
 no, none are floaters
  • - 2
 shows what I know. thanks
[Reply]
  • - 3
 looks like accesing the shock on the dhr may be a little difficult
  • - 2
 much easier than a glory haha
[Reply]
  • - 3
 wow i am utterly surprised about this news. I thought it was going to norco.
[Reply]
  • - 2
 i want one of those os bad it look so pimp christmas PLZ.
[Reply]
  • - 2
 it looked better on the ironhorse... bad sell..
[Reply]
  • - 2
 Damn how good those new bikes look like!!
[Reply]
  • - 2
 wow, didnt see this comming!
[Reply]
  • - 3
 wow the new design looks amazing and the dhr is like ahhh a simplified lighter demo frame
[Reply]
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