Video: Damien Oton Tests the Caminade One-For-All

 LOL, how right you are!

 For a start I can only assume it's available in just black and white?

 Yea, this was like a fragrance commercial, for mountain bikes....

 bike looks crappy to!

 My thoughts exactly, I was waiting for him to stop riding and talk about the bike....

 I've never been so inspired to buy a bike from a manufacture video..

 don't know Instagram in Nokia phones can shoot video.

 kill this bike before it has kids

 is this a cannondale knockoff?

 correct

 I watched in order to see the steel full suspension bike. Fail.

 I remember an episode of The Apprentice where the contestants had to make a TV advert for tissue paper and tehy made the massive f*cking error of not putting a shot of the product or its name in the advert. Needless to say they failed sadi task. If this was an video promoting riding your bike in B&W...

 and horrible music.

 I really like how they use the rear shock as the mudguard for the BB, smart multi functional designing like this is just great...

 was that a Cromagg handle bar add...?

 Most useless video ever.

 so from what i gather from this video is that you have to see in b&w and be french... im out

 Maybe whoever designed it was an archer, the top & down tube look like you're getting ready to fire off an arrow

 WTF was that? je ne comprends pas!!

 don't think that was music

 You didn't miss anything special:
www.pinkbike.com/photo/8777174

 hunchback of notre dame

 Nice, lol.

 q rings have a good placebo effect for road... they might even work, but why are they on a steel mountain bike???

 wait nvm saw a pic they're just rotor d cranks with normal rings (rotor makes those to) but still....

 you're right tho, they are nichey road cranks but no bio pace doesn't work, it ruins your knees. i know someone who went with them for a road bike and they were very problematic and parts took forever to get.

 Actually, the aluminum frames made by top tier manufactures would be way stiffer than the steel counterpart. The nice thing about steel is the compliant ride. Nothing really nice about steel, that's why it's not used often with bicycles anymore.

 Agree completely ...but they should have made the frame less ugly !

 quite practical if you should ever want to actually repair the bike, assuming the pivot bearing/bushing is something produced in a standard size for other industries, and the shock isn't some weird proprietary length/stroke, doing the frame tubes itself from 853 will keep it from (A) becomming obsolete anytime soon and (B) makes for a durable and stiff way to make the frame. Also most likely cuts production costs for the builder.

 its a steel frameset.... off the start its obsolete. Carbon is the standard withtin the next 2,3 years. This is because as technologie for carbon manufacturing continues to diminish in price it will soon be less expensive then steel or aluminum manufacturing. its requires no hot tooling or jig setup. the main expense is the mold, Automated layup processes are becoming more and more available and carbon fiber is also becoming less expensive. Small little production companies such as this one, trying to offer frames made of inexpensive material for the cost of that of a carbon or aluminum are no game player to the industry.

 @deeeight: by "repairing the bike", you mean firing up the welder and having a go? what year are we living in again?

 summit800 - with all the respect to owners of carbon bikes (especialy my dear friend Gustav) I write the following: you have to be completely blinded by "performance" and weight to skip the fact that you pay so much for something that feels simply like... plastic. Santa Cruz has had some nice first units of CF bikes but now sorry, latest V10c feels like a piece of plastic, it's even in this dull matt grey colour making it even worse. Thinking aesthetics most carbon bikes look and feel like shit, and they only get worse in time. A scratch on Alu ro steel is nothing compared to chip off on CF. I would love to have a CF frame but I stand by what I wrote above. Oh and they have no soul.

Now this frame is really beatiful at least to me and there's lot of soul in it

deeight - CF frames and some components can be repaired to a high degree as well.

Blind appraise of progression seems to me to rather be a sign of ignorance... because... everything's been done boys, you just haven't read about it. Some people see high numbers in alloy code as a sign of high tech alu frame, you know 7020, 7075 wooow... welcome to 1936

 First off, doubt you have even put down any ride time on the new 2013 v10C simply because they are in early stages of production. SC headquarters have a staff at our shop on a waiting list for the first shipment of 2013 v10 C's

secondly, you dont know shit about material properties.

Carbon fiber is extremly resilient to wear and fatigue under the proper manufacturing conditions. carbon fiber construction has fewer seams and junctions eliminating stress concentration points thus increasing stiffness as well as the lifespan of the product. Since carbon fiber is a directional material, during the lay up process, manufacturers have the ability to stiffen up the frame where needed as well as provide dampening and flexibility where needed. So in the end, a properly engineered carbon bike will outlast an aluminum or steel bike anyday. your perspective and statements may have held in 2002 when the industry of carbon fiber manufacturing was at a fresh start. litterally it is a material that can be tailored to the application. layouts can determine stiffness and flexibility.

Theres a reason comercial aircrafts are manufactured of carbon fibers for there weight, strength, and resilience to fatigue. also concider F1 race cars that utilizing carbon fiber infrastructure as a damping mechanism. You ever think how much fatigue cycles those car endure during racing events? and if that doesnt do it, go have a peak at the SC video regarding carbon fiber.

 as a composites engineer i agree largely with WAKI, carbon is fantastic for many reasons, but tactile plasticy feel will never be one. Metal frames do have more soul imo

 yes as I wrote you have to be completely blinded...thank you for proving my point. I was talking aesthetics: you know what you see and what you feel when you touch it... eyes and fingers... something you can't find on internet, that weight scale or clock cannot measure

Now can you please explain me the relevance of your description of carbon fibre properties (that I and thousands of people here have read gajillion times) to what I wrote?

engineer much?

 I'm an aircraft structures / composite mechanic by trade and carbon fiber is way more able to be shaped into intricately and aesthetically pleasing shapes than steel or aluminum. And to respond to your statement about chipping carbon... It's not that big of a deal, fill the chip in with some resin and call it a day. Unless you've compromised the fibers to a great degree there is no strength lost. Steel and aluminum on the other hand lose there integrity with every dent and sratches turn to cracks over time and fatigue, especially with aluminum.

 Sorry man, your comment was written in a way that interpreted it thinking only about "feels like plastic" as in ride quality, or when you mentioned chips I thought instantly about structure failure. That would be my engineering schooling overwhealming my ability to speak and understand everyday english, also the fact i'm billangual dont help anyone around these woods.

and yes "to the touch" raw carbon feels funky, I totally agree that the gloss paint vs raw finish of a nomad is something that sicken's me. The gloss feels nice as if it has structural integrity, but the raw carbon reminds me almost of scratching my finger nails against a piece of cardboard or chalkboard, its a nasty feeling material.

Cheers

 Ok, sorry for being a dick. What I ultimately meant was that people buying steel frames dont care that much about "performance" I guess they are after something "authentic", whatever that means. Even if in some cases it is as shallow as just trying to be different, hail to them for creating diversity. If people looked just for numbers Titanium bicycle frames would not exist as they are more expensive than CF

Now this is a small production, probably few blokes doing this as a side job, so you guys can get an idea that carbon fibre is not a good choice to start with in such organisational/economical situation, considering expenses of equipment needed to create a legit CF frame. They are actualy original for using Reynolds 853 in full suspension frame, which by the way is easily available in small amounts.

 yaaay we're all firends again

 I think it's somewhat unfair to write off steel as a wholly aesthetic choice and to put it down only to "soul". Both its flexibilty, springiness and (apparently paradoxical) stiffness (depending on usage) are all advantages as a build material. Add to this its relative cheapness and (MOST IMPORTANTLY) it's stunning ride quality and the fact that you can get insanely light frames (competitve with titanium) depending on the grade of steel and the price one is willing to pay. As well as this it's ease of repairability is paramount; no we don't personally have "fire up the welder" (or welding torch or whatever), but there are a lot of companies who can save a steel frame from some pretty catastrophic failiures that one wouldn't even consider with CF.

As it is, (as summit800 pointed out) the production of a CF frame actually involves a lot less, but we are in a situation where people continue to feed this hype machine of the mystical CARBON FIBRE (don't get me wrong I have a CF bike and know the applications) and overlook other worthwhile materials. And I'm sorry richwants out, but steel and aluminium are apples and oranges.

Glad we're all friends again too...

Vid was crap BTW and I agree with WAKI about you Made in France comment. There are shitloads of companies in France who don't see the light of day in other countries because they don't show enough business acumen to have things like good graphics on the products and surrounding marketing or to do good vidyas.

 Ok now with those friends... It's not fun anymore... All political systems seem to have failed, feudaliam communism, now capitalism, then religions struggle with integrity, atheism becomes a religion and ultimately, psychologists point that even perfectly normal and intelligent people in larger groups become utterly stupid. Given those preconditions I wish to praise groups of no more than 12 people with no less than 3 different opinions. So therefore I'll get back to you here after X-mess, I'll find some argument to argue about...

 CF is by no means mystical, Its just another material in the progression of composites. Graphite, Kevlar, fiberglass, and some others are all composites used in aircraft construction. Alot of brand new aircraft being built now will use aluminum, steel, titanium, and composites made of carbon fiber, kevlar, and old fashioned fiberglass all at the same time on one aircraft. composites are definately the way of the future for the aircraft industry. The advantages over metals are too great to ignore. there's even CF brake rotors now, and with some technological advancments with the resins used CF springs might not be far off Carbon fiber will never crack, it has no welds to be weak or crack, it is definately stonger than steel, and stress over time will not fatuge it. Only UV rays on unpainted CF will break it down. The start up costs are outrageous for any company trying to make things out of CF properly.

 As far as repairability, there's not enough CF bikes out there for a easily accesed repair market yet. Give it 5 or so years and their will be companies able to repair some pretty extensive damage on your Carbon bikes. I've done some pretty extensive CF repairs on aircraft components you'd probably think would even be fixable. Composites are way more repairable than metal will ever be, welding any metal always creates stress points which can tweak the frame out of its proper shape if not done correctly. And then a proper heat treatment process has to be done to relieve that stress. So that means all the paint and parts have to come off the bike to do this. There are too many variables that can go wrong and then your repaired frame is kaput. These problems dont exist with CF, if your repair doesnt turn out as desired it can be done over and over again with little to no adverse problems. No heat treating, only paint in the area to be repaired has to be removed. And a gloss finish can be applied to CF, I think that bike manufacturers just put a different finish on them to make folks go "oh wow, Carbon Fiber!"

 calfee will repair your frame... not a huge deal either to get them to do it

 That's nice...

 richwantsout - thanks for input, good reading. Do you have any assumption or explanation why some CF frames feel like crap, way to stiff and others at same wieght are compliant? My sister in law who is a road racer reports certain CF wheels to be way to stiff to be ridden on training sessions, she uses them only for racing. She especialy disliked ZIPP wheels, which are not necessarily the cheapest. Then she was given ENVE wheels just for test, and said that they are more comfy than aluminium. Too bad her sponsorship does not allow her using them.

I spoke to an ex-aircraft-engineer who used to do one of the best sailplanes in the world (heard of Swift or Fox? ) does RC models for living now, he makes a great living out of that apparently, so he must be good. He said that there are so many ways of putting weaving into desired shape and impregnate with resin that it might be done as total crap or really incredible structure. We went also to Specialized concept store and he said, those frames have up to 0,5kg of paint, stickers and clear coat on them, more than alu frames - in general he was quite unimpressed. The only thig that raised his eye brows were the CNCd forms from ENVE for V10c and he said that it might be the best way, BUT really expensive.

As to price, as I wrote somewhere before, it is the aluminium frames are extremely overpriced, talking prices of CF is therefore pointless. I ordered making of an aluminium frame according to my design, with my geomoetry, tubing choice, etc. The price includes even setting up the welding jig/table and has sliding drop-outs, It will be done in Poland. Now... it will be cheaper than some frames done in Taiwan in tens of thousands.

 There are many different resins and many different weaves of cloth that can be used in CF layups. It's all still pretty new to the bike industry, there's alot of experimentation to do to figure out how to get the desired results for specific applications. Look up the boeing dreamliner, its the first commercial airliner to be built almost 100 percent with composite materials. Aircraft have to be flexable in certain areas and rigid in others or the forces in flight will tear them apart. So flex can be built into composite structures. I totally agree things are way overpriced! I think alot of aircraft are as well. I'm not industry insider or expert by any means, but it seems that alot of the pricing for aviation related things come from poor business practices and the fact that the industry is a niche market. Sales volumes are not that high and products are very unique. Its not like these things are being sold in quantities of hundreds of thousands.

 start ups costs for making anything from CF is very high, I've seen the costs of the tooling for making composite products. Some of the tools are a like $100,000 each others cost even more. But the same can be said for CNC and metal working machines too though. Imagine having to buy 10 or 20 of these to be able to pump out any kind of volume:

www.neobits.com/republic_lagun_machine_tool_20_1015dma_cnc_milling_p2855295.html?atc=gbs

I theroize the bike market is a niche market as well, how many of a particular model of bike is sold in a year. If volumes were higher price would come down.

 The guy I talked to valued those V10c swingarm forms alone for 30-50k $ if done in Poland. But what many do is they use existing facilities and book time on their equipment if they have some breaks in production of own stuff. For instance almost all small Polish bicycle frame manufacturers like Zumbi, Antidote, use old airplane/helicopter factory which due to low interest in their helicopters and planes, do all kinds of stuff requiring "advanced" materials and specialist handling them. If my frame comes out well, for the next one I will buy tubing from Reynolds.

 Richwantsout: No one will ever make any money with a cnc mill like those Republic-Lagun Machine Tool things. Utter crap. Check out some of the Hope factory tour videos. They have Matsuura machines. I have a few at work. Efficient, fast, powerful. Real machine tools cost 10x plus what a converted Bridgeport style mill does.

 Well that's kinda my point, not the machine I referenced specifically, but more that these things are expensive in general. And you're not making production products on a cheapy CBC machine and not in any great quantities either.

 Imagine the costs when you're changing your designs every year or two as well. Small start ups really can't compete with the money the big boys can toss around. But in the end they all have to recoup their R&D and start up costs.

 There's also the fact that Intense... Santa Cruz... those two both started out as "small start ups". Santa Cruz's first frame, the tazmon was made from aluminium, didn't ride that well, and didn't sell that well either because they were very expensive. They later "cheaper" heckler model is what made the company their fortune and paid for all the other models that followed. Intense began with an Amp clone called the Spyder that while "made for DH", this was the DH of 1995... fast fire road mountains like Mammoth's Kamikaze... it still only had like 4" of travel. But it got them on the map. Of course most pinkbike users were still in diapers at the time so its no wonder they don't know this.

 I was Like 10 and already getting decent boners in the beginning of 90s so get off your high horse!

 well deeeight, in relevance the intire industry was at similar standpoints.

 depends, for instance Canyon, Rose started off as if they were huge companies right away, lots of different models at different price ranges... and people buy their bikes massively even though they have shitty geo, rear end stiffness issues poor bearings. Why? because they're cheap! Now someone in Germany sorted it out how to make good business on bikes, not necessarily how to make good bikes... YT is kind of similar

 We think along the same lines, it just looks like a suspension road bike XD

 www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/tech/bianchipez2.jpg you're exactly right thats the creepy part

 and they're all about how shit the vid and bike are

 Its ok... they dont either

 Certainly not eye-candy.