First Look: 27.5" Santa Cruz Heckler

 Wow. People complain about too high end bikes being reviewed - now people complain about too low end bikes. Quit complaining and enjoy the ride

 People just like to bitch and moan

 Ya like chickens; if they are not shitting they are squawking. Me too

 Why the 650b hate?

 Because it's a marketing wheelsize.

 i'm 6ft4inches and in all honesty i think that 650b just puts a bike into perspective for me. i am running XL frames so why should i use the same wheelsize as a 5ft9 person on a small or medium. if everything on the bike gets bigger why not the wheels to?
i feel you on the marketing hype thing but i think there is a place for these wheels and i think santa cruz is all over it because they are getting so much positive feedback from there riders who are all over 6 foot tall running larger frames so it makes sense

 Have you ridden one?

 Because they're scared that the nasty marketing men from Wall Street are going to take away their puppies and 26" wheels and leave them with nothing to suck on!

 Nooooo....26 inch was the marketing wheelsize... it was chosen because it was all that was readily available in the north America parts supply market in the late 70s when Mountain Biking was moving from a bunch of weirdos in jeans converting cruisers and racing the repack DH to actual mainstream production bikes anyone could buy in a store. But the pioneers of the sport as far as production bikes go...Tom Ritchey, Gary Fisher, and Charlie Kelly... they wanted to use 650B and 700C off-road tires from the beginning. Well now 700C has taken hold in mountain bikes, and so has 650B. And the original "marketing" size is on its way out.

 deeeight nailed it! So funny to read all this 650B Scare, while Mountainbikes are just following a simple History when it comes to Wheelsize: Back to the Roots! ;-)

 of course they did deeelight that's why it took them 30 years to start knocking out clown bikes, i have nothing against 650b as a size (its indistinguishable from 26") i just dislike the dishonesty of the bike stylists that claim they are better, faster, smoother etc.
people are not pissed off because the wheel sizes have changed they are pissed off because now if someone wants to get a new frame chances are they are going to need a new set of forks, wheels, tyres and tubes too.

 Go back to the roots indeed, it is a proven design refined with latest technology - next is hydraulic Ice-tech cantilevers. eat it btch!

 I find it funny the resistance to wheel sizes. It's just a wheel size. It's still a mountain bike. All mountain bikes have the potential to be fun. I'll be the very first to admit, when the whole 29er thing first came about and then when the first 650b bikes started popping up I was one of the riders who resisted. I loved my 26" wheels and I wanted to keep them. I rode a 29er on a short section of trail and thought it wasn't for me. Then, by chance I tried a 650b bike. I thought "this has potential" . I decided to be open minded about it, and sold my bike and bought a KHS 656XC. I have to say, I absolutely love it. It's a nice snappy 5" travel bike. It handles well and it's a lot of fun. I find the whole 650b is indistinguishable from 26" is a bit misleading. Same with "they're closer to 27". My 650b wheels with 2.2 WTB Wolverine tires measure just a tiny bit uner 28". I rode my friend's 26" bike the other day and I was very surprised at how different the wheels felt. The way they feel when they turn and roll is definitely noticeable. I just find there are very real benefits to the 650b size. You may or may not agree with me, and that's fine. All types of bikes , wheel sizes, suspension, frame materials, are just a matter of opinion. I honestly think that most 26" riders would fall in love with the "new" wheel size like I have if they give it a chance. They look good as well. There's no denying 29" wheels are drastically different looking than 26" bikes (not saying a 29er looks bad). Most 650b bikes look very similar to 26" models. The fact that I love my 650b bike so much even makes me more open minded to 29" bikes than I used to be. Bikes are fun, bottom line. Time for everyone to embrace the changes to the sport. It's progress for the better, in my opinion.

 as a 6ft6in guy i must give props to 650b, not trying to force it on anyone the way 29ers were/ are from specialized I'm just saying they are quick and they give stability to my tall and delicate body.

 I'm personaly as pissed at people ditching wheel sizes as those who horn and peep that this and that is the future. I went through "that is the best" in the primary school. What's the best aircraft carrier, what's the best sportscar etc., who's the best pilot in the world.

Right now we are at the top of the hype, it will go down in less than 2 years, and we won't see it actualy clarifying itself until 2016-18 . It is called the Hype-cycle and is recognized in all businesses with all products and technologies. Some are released to soon, some too late, for instance Google released "the Cloud" waaay too early, thus nobody knows whether it will work at all. The masters of it are the guys from Apple. Right shit at the right time. 650B is at the right time to me, but don't delude yourself anyone that it isn't over-inflated and that it is going to kill 26"

 Mountain-man78, was your mates 26 the same brand, model and suspension set up?

 Lastnight I took out one of my remaining 26er full suspensions from my collection for a ride on a trail loop that I'd ridden only a few days before on a 650B hardtail and boy did it feel.... WRONG... trails were damp from rain the day before but still, I was having to pay a lot more attention to turns and going over rocks and roots because the bike kept breaking traction a LOT more easily than it does with bigger wheels. And this was even with tires within a tenth of an inch in width to my 650Bs, and a tread pattern and compound a lot better suited to the trail conditions. Definitely have no regrets with my plan to take the bike apart today and rebuild it to sell off.

 I agree that 650b will take over, of that I have no doubt, and my next bike will be 27.5. But could people please stop telling me how shit 26 is. I just don't buy that the new wheel size so vastly superior that bikes that where considered fantastic only a couple of years ago are suddenly rubbish.

 Deeeight, I meant to reply to your comment but instead it ended up below. If you don't mind, have a look and let me know. Cheers.

 Hmmm there are people able to notice half of a degree of head angle change, then 5mm of cs length or can rant for days on wheel base lengths. 2 psi of tyre pressure, or in the air fork, one click of rebound, you get the idea... Those who come to the shop with pendulum and a measuring tape... Jah bless them for the time they spend measuring and feeling those measurements as if it mattered to anyone but themselves

 ^ I'm happy you've identified yourself as just another bike shop douche. Thank you for being a steward of the cycling community

 Wait a second!! pb changed my comment, thats not what I originally wrote!!!

 @Kramster... until 2008 all my own personal mountain bikes were 26ers (I'm fractionally under 6'7 so I wasn't resisting bigger wheels because I couldn't fit the bikes, and I've been riding mountain bikes since 1987) when I got a fully rigid 29er and then did a 650B conversion in the same summer. My next series of bikes, for myself, were in sequence, a 29er softtail, a 650B hardtail, a 650B full suspension, then a 26er fat bike and then a 29er full suspension (the earlier softtail literally was one, a Salsa Dos Niner). The one I took out lastnight was a Amp Research B-3 that I've owned over ten years, and have thousands of hours of riding on, and I haven't bothered to ride it previously since last year. Except for my winter fat bike, the only times I willingly take a 26er out of my collection to ride anymore is for nostalgia reasons (and my fat bike might as well be a 29er as that's the inflated diameter of the tires) or because it won the dice roll (I have so many bikes, my girlfriend made me some decision dice for my birthday to roll to pick a bike when I cannot decide). Its also why I'm clearing out a lot of my collection of vintage bikes as I see no joy in riding them anymore myself, not when I have a hell of a lot more fun on bigger wheels.

 So your 10 yr old Amp with 1000s of hours felt bad, huh? Wow, very profound. Your tired and loose fs felt like shite, this experiment is definitive proof that 650 is better. And your going to take it apart and sell this piece of crap to some fool?

 @maxman6000: my buddy's bike is very close in geo, suspension setup, and even frame size, a Giant Trance X. They aren't the same bike, and I realize there are a lot of factors that go into how a bike handles. You can notice the turning differences and rolling differences though, it just makes sense. A bigger wheel will feel different. I'm not saying any wheel size is better. No wheel size can ever be better than another. They're just different. They all ride different, and whatever ride qualities you prefer will basically dictate what wheel size is right for you. For me, I find the 650b ride characteristics suit my style better than my 26" bike did. I'm not sure a 29er would be what I would like. I'm only 5'7" tall and a 29er doesn't seem to fit me well. Anyone who thinks one size is better than the other is being narrow minded. They all have pros and cons. The interesting thing for me is the hatred for the different sizes. No one seemed to hate virtual pivot point suspension when it came along, arguing that they'll die with their single pivot bike. It's only a wheel, what's the problem? Are people afraid they won't enjoy biking as much on a different wheel size? The argument that it's being forced upon us by manufacturers is BS too. Of course manufacturers are trying to sell their new products, but who cares? That's the case with all bike products. What about air sprung suspension over coil? What about hydration packs, what about neck braces? Wider handlebars, dropper posts, tubeless tires, dual crown forks. There was a time when all those things were new to the sport and none of them have had the controversy of the wheel size debate. Personally, I think everyone should ride what works for them. That doesn't mean that the industry will agree with you though. If the new products work for the majority of riders they will become the norm. It's why we don't all still ride on full rigid bikes with cantilever brakes and big bar ends.

 @slowdownU/// I have other 26er bikes newer than that Amp and I don't ride them anymore either. And yes, I'm going to get more selling the Amp frame than what I paid for it originally. Moron trolls like yourself may not grasp this without being told, but vintage bikes and parts are in demand now.

 Troll? Your credibility continues to erode. The Amp is superseded only by the Proflex as the biggest piece of crap of its era. Every one came back to the shop within 6mos all loosey goosey. That rear end had more flex than, even when new, than an gymnast on Valium. There's a reason that design doesn't exist anymore. Now go cry with the rest of your "vintage" bike collector tool box friends.

 Yeah... It was only the most popular and copied suspension design of the 90s. And the only one crying here is you.

 Mountain man78, my first comment was a little clumsy. I wasn't arguing against the new wheel size, I can certainly see it has bright future and more than likely will be the go to size for both manufactures and riders into the future. My argument is that some of the huge advantages that certain people on this site are endorsing, might be a little overstated. Like you said there are pros and cons on both sides. With that being said I was passed on the trail yesterday like I was standing still, he rode a 26 and his mate quite a way back was on a 29. Rider ability will always trump wheel size.

 Deeeight - AMP? Dos Niner? you've lost me mate... please get quality 10 hours on something less "ambitious" like 2007 or newer Giant Reign or Trek Fuel, and we might talk wheel size differences. There only a few old bikes that live up to modern standards (2003 Spec Enduro) just like some of "new" bikes (like Salsa) are still living the nostalgia of the 90s both in design and geometry - Fair enough, thank God we have diversity. But you refer to performance all the time and in that matter your Salsa would be ripped apart by bikes like SC Blur TR, Stumpy Evo 26 or probably even Orange Five.

Retro shit gets popular indeed, just as fixies. Where is the relevance though?

 @Wakidweeb... yes... an Amp... unlike many brands, they supported their frames well past the time they ceased making them, you can still to this day get bushing/link pins for them, and seals for the shocks and disc brakes, and pads, and rotors. And the company got out of bikes because there's very little money to be made in them when there's a shitton to be made in the automotive world. It wasn't anything wrong with their designs... in fact their designs led to patents which the company you seem to worship, specialized, bought a couple of them, after having hired Amp Research to design their bikes for them. And narrow minded trolls like yourself constantly love tell lies and make up lame arguments to try and sound like you know something. I have thousands of hours on my Amp, and thousands on other designs. I've been riding mountain bikes for 26 years now. As to 2007 or newer... the five bikes I listed as having built up... the fully rigid 29er, the softtail 29er, the hardtail and fully 650Bs, and the fat bike were all 2008 or newer. And as to what a Stumpy Evo 26 can do I really don't care, nor a SC Blur TR. I won't own a specialized as I don't support companies with their lack of business ethics with my money, and as to SC, I've not been impressed over the years by their designs, and I used to sell them. As to Orange... yeah a single pivot like them or hell the Heckler that this article was about really matters to me. Sorry but I did my time with E-stay high single pivots in the 90s and I have no need for them today.

 I told you once that it is not about the quantity but quality. And if your skills,thus validity of your opinion is as qualitative as that AMP or all those other bikes in your buy/sell then sorry mate...

BTW - I really dont know what dweeb means so you are just wasting your time. You might as well call me doheap

 Yes, and I'd say given that I get emails complimenting me from bike designers and editors and the other people who run this site and you don't... says I've got quality in spades and you've got zip f all.

 Dweeb means dork, nerd, geek, or another pejorative for not fitting in, you doheap

 Deeeight - buahaha... you like compliments don't you. I like the way the red fork goes with the rest of the bike. I recieved compliments from a horny hairy dude in the club

The fact that I haven't heard of the term dweeb even though I listen to English and American stand up few hours per week means that it is a sense of humour as particular as d8's bikes.

Cuban-b stop trying so hard to come in between yall... You'll end up with one in your ass and the other in your eye.

Fkng 6ft guy having issues with 26" wheels and his cuban doggie raau! reeau! rreau! Compliments... Ohoho what a douche

 More gibberish from the loon. Really pointless to try and correct such a moron. He wouldn't get a point even if it involved the end of a pickaxe driving into his skull.

 Heh mate you are riding old junk and telling people about what's gonna work in the future. Who's a loon?

 Yes but anyone but a troll would have read EVERYTHING I've said, not just the one thing that suits his lame argument skills. Yes I've owned an Amp B3 for over a decade. I've also owned a LOT of other bikes. And as to the Amp, until the other night, I had not used it in a year. Anyone not a troll, would have been able to surmise then, that I my pointing out that I haven't ridden 26er anything (other than my fat bike) is over a year to mean I do all my riding on 29ers and 650Bs. And since 650s at least didn't exist in modern terms since 2008... that that means the bikes I ride all the time are a lot newer than an Amp.

But you are simply a troll and incapable of proper reasoning and debate. All you can do is use schoolyard type arguments and hope you get read before you're negatively propped out of sight.

 Waki, seek anger management. If you're this angry over the Internet, I'd be afraid to have a constructive conversation with you in real life. Take it easy mate, I was just trying to help out, no need to get your panties in a bunch. You said you didn't know what a word meant, so I clarified. Does that not qualify as helping out?

 How can people take you seriously (since that is your objective) when you say things like, "Heh mate you are riding old junk and telling people about what's gonna work in the future. Who's a loon?" Amongst your other rhetoric.

 gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Boy-That-Escalated-Quickly-Anchorman.gif

Hey doheaps.

Not wanting to get in the way of your little tiff here, before all the childish mud slinging started I thought Waki may have had a point: Comparing a modern 650B bike to a 1990's 26er is a little unfair. A more relevant test might be a series of 26" bikes vs 650B equilavents vs 29 equilavents.

But then we would have to factor in different disciplines, different types of trails within each of those disciplines, different rider body types, heights and inner leg and arm measurements.

But then I got really bored at the prospect and realised it's different strokes for different folks and as Joe Graney wisely pointed out: "You can make shitty 26er's, you can make shitty 29er's, you can make shitty 650bs. You can also make really good ones."

WHEN IS THIS BULLSHIT NON-ARGUEMENT GOING TO END...?!

 Oh I fully agree with you, and just like anything else, there are ways of expressing this without being a total dick. Btw, excellent use of doheap

 Never heard that insult before...!

 Bike magazines have done such tests though... MBA especially loves to do wheel size comparios... they tested three KHS hardtails in one, and three full suspensions in another (KHS was chosen because they offer both hardtails and full suspensions in all three wheel sizes, at similar price points and component levels). And in both the tests MBA conducted, the 650Bs won. Similar results have happened with other magazines (print ones) comparing wheelsizes.

Look...people seem SOOO concerned about my bikes and how old/new they are for me to make my own comparisons for my own riding and my own trails... fine, here is what they include for non vintage/snow/road/cross models.... Oh all my bikes run bash guards/rockrings and all have thumbshifters (except my road/cross bikes which have STI levers)

Eclipse Kinetic FS4, 100mm front and rear, 26 x 2.3 Hutchinson Scorpion Elite Gold tires, 4-bar horst-link aluminium frame, setup 2 x 8 with bash guard. I last road it on a night ride last fall. Built in October 2006.

Eclipse Hero FS4, 100mm rear and 100-120-140 front, 650B x 2.0 Pacenti Quasi Moto tires, 4-bar horst-link (same as the above in layout) Carbon/Scandium frame, setup 2 x 10. Built july 2010.

Haro Beasley, 125mm front, 650B x 2.3 Pacenti Neo Moto tires, chromoly frame hardtail, setup 2x9. Built june 2009.

Salsa Dos Niner, 25mm rear and 100mm front, 29 x 2.4/2.25 Schwalbe Racing Ralph tires, softtail scandium frame, 2 x 9 drivetrain. Built august 2009

Salsa Spearfish, 80mm rear and 100mm front, 29 x 2.4 Schwalbe Racing Ralph tires, single-pivot linkage aluminium frame, 2 x 9 drivetrain. Built in October 2012.