First Look: 27.5" Santa Cruz Heckler

Jun 14, 2013 at 0:14
Jun 14, 2013
by Mike Kazimer  
 
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227 Comments

  • + 41
 If ever there was a bike that needed 142 it was the heckler! The only thing that would slow you down on the old model was the fact that you never knew what direction the bike would be pointing on the way out the corner. I wish my girlfriend was that flexy.
  • - 8
 This in a carbon frame with the XX1.. my lordie, that's about as dream of a setup when they first introduced the VP free with the 888 Marzocchi... OK not exactly but you guys probably get the point, haha.
  • - 22
 Totaly agreed, Heckler 2 in 26" was slightly flexy and back in 2007 when was released nobody could care less, but these days with even longer swingarm and availability of 142x12 parts, I really don't get it why they did it this way. Maybe they thought it is a budget option and people buying frameset only will prefer to keep their old wheels. Dunno.
  • + 18
 "The rear swingarm is now equipped with a 12x142 thru axle"
  • + 9
 Waki's mad. It's palpable

Do you guys read before posting?
  • + 9
 Seems maybe pana was acknowledging the smartitude of the spec, and referring to the lack of it in the old model.
  • + 3
 This is awesome! The Heckler finally got a much needed update. I have a 2011 heckler and its a super fun bike. I would highly recommend a Heckler to anybody who wants a fun trail bike to throw around.
[Reply]
  • + 13
 First off deeeight, come on facts are irrelevant.
I wonder how many of you saying there is no difference have actually ridden one?
Also, bet you'd be the same guys saying that a 69 degree HTA is to steep, a bike needs a 68 degree HTA.

I took a Jamis 650b out on my trails for the hell of it and I can say there certainly is a difference and it's not hard to tell.
Maybe it depends on your trails, but for rocky, root infested east coast trails I noticed an improvement in climbing and on downhills it carried more speed and momentum than my 26er.

It funny to see all the arguments over a degree of HTA or STA or 1/4 inch of chainstay length as important, but then it comes to the 650b wheel and it's immediately dismissed as marketing and hype.
  • + 5
 Can't agree more, demoed a KHS sixfifty in Sedona. felt like a 26", but with the rolling resistance of a 1.8" tires, and the grip of a 2.4" tire. it was awesome.
  • - 5
 I'm waiting for the 26.875 wheel size, 17.5 mm front axel, 4x10 drivetrain, $10,000 new bike so I can shave .0086 seconds off my racetime and still only end up with a t-shirt on raceday. Wait, make that $20,000 for a new bike. I love all you guys that buy into this shit b/c I love to buy the old shit for a fraction of the new cost and can't wipe the grin off my face as I ride the hell out of it. BTW your 25 y/o girlfriend is looking ooold!!!!
  • + 8
 Just think J50005, if everyone was as closed minded as you, you wouldn't even be mountain biking.
Those guy would have been like why the hell do we need to ride off road? We've been riding on the road for years, no reason to change a thing!

Thank god there are people that continue to think outside of the box and try new things.

Funny making asinine comments about 10k bikes on a thread of a $2600 complete
  • + 3
 @ theoriginaltwotone I will admit this thread was not the best opportunity state these points but with the influence of a couple beers there it was. Anyway there has been incredible innovations such as road to mountain, suspension, cantilever to V to disc brakes that have merit and value. Other changes such as 8 to 9 to 10 spd cassettes, 135 mm to 142mm, and 26 to 27.5 are expensive changes for maybe marginal improvement. It's not that I am closed minded but just because it's different doesn't make it better. Would you sell you 3 year old car for half the price of new just to buy the new model with the only difference being the wheel size changed from 15" to 16" or 17" and the manufacturer/media told you it rolls so much better?

And $2,600 for a quality complete bike these days is awesome! And that's also kind of sad because that really should be more the norm. Pricing is out of control and I know the common response is innovation cost money so say it if you must. So buy away and I will keep buying the used stuff like I said. And being critical of the price tag of a $10K bike is asinine, really?
  • + 0
 No being critical of 10k bikes isn't, I went over my budget to get me TBc and it was under 1/2 that. My point was that you made the rant on a thread about a much cheaper bike.

I total understand and no I wouldn't sell a perfectly good bike just to change wheel size, however all the bashing has just been directed at the wheel size as though there are no gains from it. Unless you've actually ridden one how would you know?.

I as said I did try one and was actually very surprised at the difference, I was already shopping for a new bike. The only reason I didn't end up on a 650b was because the shop said if you like that try a 29er before you decide, so I did.

For my riding the benefits of the 29er outweighed the draw backs. I'll be the first to admit, I rode a 29er in a parking lot and though, what a POS, but on a trail it's much different. I'm actually glad the shop pushed me to expand my view on them and try it..
  • + 0
 So what if 27.5 isn't a revolutionary improvement? There's room for evolutionary improvements, too: v-brakes vs cantilever, for instance: are v-brakes better than cantilever? yes. Are they as revolutionary to riding as disc brakes are? not even close, but: doesn't mean that I'd ever run cantilever ever again, given the choice.
  • + 2
 it's all good, mine was mostly just a beer influenced rant anyway and whatever points there were have been discussed too much on countless threads. Like the word choice on evolution vs revolution. You all have a great summer!
[Reply]
  • + 14
 I've never tried a quality single pivot like this, I'm sure it would perform quite well.
  • - 10
 yeah has santa cruz even made a single pivot since the bullit? Or was it a bullet? Anyway, have they?

I thought single pivot was kind of outdated, but I suppose a pro would be less bearings.
  • + 18
 the majority of bikes on the market are single pivots, the designers simply slap a few linkages on there and give them groovy sounding names, abp, knucklebox etc. some of the best bikes i've ridden are are well sorted single pivot bikes like the orange 5 and prophet.
  • - 8
 Interesting. But some bikes are single pivot but that doesn't mean all single pivots are the same. Many bikes are single pivot, but actually have moving parts in the rear triangle to take out the negative sides of single pivots, such as brake jack. This one doesn't seem to have anything like that. It's just straight up single pivot, nothing more.
  • + 23
 Heckler is still one of the best performing trail bikes of all time. Classic bike. It will never go out of style.
  • + 6
 Honestly I was hoping someone would give me some insight but it seems like all I'm getting is negative props. I enjoy the innovative engineering that goes into modern suspension designs.

All I wanted to know is why the single pivot? Because it's simple? I hardly ever see a bike with it come out nowadays, so I'm surprised to see this one. Especially from Santa Cruz.

Again, not hating, just curious.
  • + 9
 So Santa Cruz can offer bikes to people on a bit of a budget that will last well and are simple, not every bike has to have the latest designs although apparently they do all have to be 650b.
  • + 5
 Simple is good enough reason for me to use proper single pivot bike. If you ride lot in wet and muddy conditions the bearings die quickly, and damn it costs a good money to replace them. MTBing is an expensive hobby, so it's tempting to get bikes with lower upkeep bills.

I'm no expert on linkages, but I've heard this is a good place to search information linkagedesign.blogspot.fi. Google translate might be a good friend on that site...
  • + 2
 Also, the suspension itself is way more important than the design (so long as the geo is good). Might is well put the money where it will make the most difference.
  • - 4
 Well the reason there are suspension designs that look like single pivot plus some bearings is to eliminate brake jack, which all single pivots seem to have. It was kind of a breakthrough to enjoy the advantages of single pivot without it, and now I feel like they're taking a step back. If it's to save money and simplify things, I get it. In a way, that's a step forward, but I guess I'm surprised/confused.

Whatever. It's their company. They can experiment all they want. I'm just curious surprised to see this from them.
  • + 1
 Yea, suspension matters greatly. I had Mondraker Dune (2011 and 2012) with Fox Float R, and after breaking few of those frames, I bought Orange Alpine with CCDBA. From the very first ride I was very suprised how much better the alpine was, the rear end seemed so much stiffer and well controlled. Float just went through travel too easily and also the Dune was pretty flexy.
But then again my friends Uzzi with Elka Stage 5 is much more soft and smooth than my Alpine.
  • + 2
 Yes, the Superlight and Heckler are both single pivots that are still current in the SantaCruz line up.
  • + 2
 The single pivot Heckler is actually highly refined. The pivot placement is perfectly aligned with the front chainring to eliminate pedal bob and chain growth, and brake jack isn't as noticeable as with other single pivots. It's active, lively, with plenty of pop, and handles rough terrain like a mini-DH bike.
  • + 17
 Its not $9000.00, but people are still complaining.
  • + 20
 People complain when it's too expensive, then they complain that it's not advanced enough haha
  • - 1
 Yeah but it's different people. It's just opinions in the end anyway. Be open minded to them. I'm happy with my FSR suspension from 2005.

I just feel like for this $2599 complete bike price, there's many other bike's I'd go with.

To each his own!
  • + 2
 Santa Cruz has always been an advocate of single pivot, they were telling people it was all you needed right up to the point when they introduced VPP.
  • + 2
 Freerider (I'm not putting the numbers in), I agree, I'm still happy with a hardtail
  • - 3
 Trek make the best single pivot bikes ....
  • + 5
 Wooord Smile Single pivots are still definitely hold their own. I love my prophet - sure, it suffers a bit with rear braking and yes, it isn't the most technically advanced design in the world but I'm not phased. The most important thing is, its got a sorted set up / design and it's a beast of a ride! I can't see myself replacing it for a couple of years yet Smile
  • + 2
 The Nickel was single pivot.
  • - 1
 Not hating, but there's a reason for the neg props - figure it out, instead of waiting for someone to spoon feed it to you
  • + 5
 @Fr3rid3r: NO, adding linkages and "bearings in places" will not change the fact that there is ONE bar from the main pivot to the rear wheel nor will it "eliminate brake jack". it has to do with shock actuation and mechanical advantage aka suspension actuation rate. The MAIN PIVOT placement is the only thing that will effect things like wheel-path, and pedal feedback in a single pivot suspension. Horst links (your FSR suspension) are a lot more then "some bearings o eliminate brake jack", Norco's new ART version of the HL is possibly the most plush, active braking and pedal neutral Horst style suspension ever made (even better then Spec's FSR IMO). SC on the other hand has been doing single pivots for along time and have really gotten that pivot placement down to a science. It's still gonna have brake jack because without a floating brake there's no way around this in a single pivot. Doesn't mean it's going to ride badly, it's just a different style of suspension. Other single pivots, no matter HOW MANY extra linkages or bars they add will have the same traits, but with a more complex actuation rate (changes to the suspensions "feel" -rising rate, falling rate, linear etc- through it's cycle/movement path) as the added "bars/links" move through their paths. Now SOME links, depending on where they're placed, are simply there to add lateral load stability to keep the rear end stiff (for example a "dog link" like on the Transition Double/Bottlerocket or the Nukeproof Mega Am bikes) and have no effect on the suspension action. Braking and pedaling forces come from locking he rear wheel to the rear swing-arm (in the case of a Single Pivot w/no floating brake) or having the chain pull at the axle as well as the physical motion of the rider so it's a different force then a bump acting against the riders mass through the suspension.
  • + 3
 Eh, treks split pivot ?? It's a single pivot and has almost no brack jack ....
  • - 2
 that's because split pivot is not a single pivot.
  • + 2
 @Fr3rid3r:
dirt.mpora.com/wp-content/uploads/old_images/news/AbsolutSXVIPframemay09.jpg

This is a single pivot that rides extremely well and has sharp response. The upper part of the triangle acts as a pushrod for the shock. The bearings are huge.
Its low maintenance. The shock sucks.

One up - the rear triangle is properly triangulated, single pivot:

wrlksw.sn2.livefilestore.com/y1pCKpmhwL9UWqE8jeMiGlvoemQGmdpkUrE3zshDxEUK9Kphxky-6i5zEqatpnhjJH-btm64gvjrfvYGTObQXfpFl5OBhmUDvML/_DSC4367.JPG?psid=1

This is a very stiff frame sideways and longitudinally. There is no deflection happening. That means the suspension does its job supersmooth and predictably. The cheap Boxxer is easy to dial in and does the job. The Fox shock is engineeringwise f*cked up beyond repair and will be replaced with an simple Elka.

Would I ride multilink rear triangle? No, too much slop and deflection, to many bearings. Mushy riding.
  • + 2
 No one owns the patent for single pivots and santa cruz bikes before first gen vpp was all single pivots. So all those years with the heckler and superlight and bullit, SC has gotten there single pivot designs down packed.
  • + 2
 spent 3 days on a bronson recently through demo program, and if this thing performs half as well as that its worth $2500 imo.
[Reply]
  • + 11
 Santa Cruz must be playing ring toss with 650B rims and their "old" 26in frames at their headquarters...whatever frame the rim lands on is the next, NEW GREATEST BIKE EVER!
  • + 2
 For a company whose owner used to hate anything but 26 they sure are throwing the 650b hoops on anything they get their hands on.
  • + 2
 Yeah, but their number one selling bike is a 29er. Money talks...
[Reply]
  • + 13
 三条裤子吊炸天
  • + 15
 I totally agree ..
  • + 3
 LOL, if you put it into google translate it means "Three pants hanging fried days"... what are you guys thinking !? Wink
  • + 5
 actually 三条裤子 sounds like Santa Cruz in Chinese pronunciation so..
  • + 2
 99% of us, haven't a clue what you said
  • - 1
 I would recalculate. 1.4 Billion people in china not to mention more in Singapore, Taiwan, and other mandarin speaking Asian nations. Smile
  • + 11
 Well done Smile , but I'm talking about PB Users, genius
  • - 1
 The future will soon be here. All you neg proppers know that too hahahaha
[Reply]
  • + 7
 Santa Cruz you are my peeps, I freakn love ya! Haven't been the biggest fan of your colors lately (pastels/yellow). My ano green Nomad is still the sexist thing next to my wife. Im a full 26er but you get props for giving the people what they are asking for.
  • + 4
 This is a great point: "props for giving the people what they are asking for." Most bike companies only care about their top riders and the other companies. Here we have a bike that is more in line with the average mountain biker.
[Reply]
  • + 6
 of course they did deeelight that's why it took them 30 years to start knocking out clown bikes, i have nothing against 650b as a size (its indistinguishable from 26") i just dislike the dishonesty of the bike stylists that claim they are better, faster, smoother etc.
people are not pissed off because the wheel sizes have changed they are pissed off because now if someone wants to get a new frame chances are they are going to need a new set of forks, wheels, tyres and tubes too.
  • + 1
 keep in mind that you could easily run 26" wheels and fork on this, and most other 650b bikes, as an interim step until you can get the new fork and wheels.

There will be some disadvantages, but it'll be more than rideable.
  • + 3
 You had to buy new wheels, or at least new hubs when we switched from rim to disc brakes as well. People complained that was just marketing, and that people would be repeatedly stranded with ripped off hoses, and bent rotors LOL.
[Reply]
  • + 5
 It was a no brainer to offer the heckler this way as the previous generation has been one of the most often converted bikes among 650B enthusiasts. All it needed was a spacer inside the shock to limit the stroke (and keep the tire smacking the seattube).
  • + 1
 You actually don't need a spacer, well I don't on mine. I took the coil off my DBcoil, and cycled the rear shock completely with no tire rub anywhere close, and I'm even running a 2x9 setup. You can see my setup in my profile...
[Reply]
  • + 5
 I've ridden quite a few "dialed" 29ers, were they fast? Did they have better roll over on small bumps? You bet! But 26ers are just more fun! However, if the industry does indeed faze out the 26" and bring in the 27.5", or more accurately the 27", then that will be the wheel size I will buy I guess. At the end of the day, fun is the reason I ride!
  • + 1
 27" is not more accurate. Please don't tell us you were one of the thousands who fell for MBA's april fools prank ? Or fall for their all the time idiocy of trying to be relevant to the bicycle literature world by inventing new names for already existing things (like trying to call freeride bikes as black diamond bikes).
  • + 1
 ........maybe.
  • + 2
 There has been a lot of other statements out there saying the the 650B isn't really the halfway size. Just makes sense
  • + 3
 26 will never die
  • + 2
 And the people making those statements are equally as moronic as the people at MBA who wrote those articles or tried to rename the size because they were too lazy to use the decimal point, or tooo anti-euro to call it 650B. In terms of rim / tire bead interface sizes, none of the wheel sizes are at all anything close to the inches number they label the tires as (a 26er tire has a 22" diameter rim), and the tire "sizes" are based off inflated diameters for the most common size tire available at the time. When 26" mountain bike tires became known as such, the "standard" tire was a 2.125" width model common to balloon tire cruiser/newspaper boy type bikes from the mid 20th century. Inflated that width of tire was about 26 inches in diameter, hence 26 x 2.125. Its only when "29ers" came along and were being labeled as that instead of 700C x something, which is what they were, that 26ers started being called 26ers by most mountain bikers.

Kirk Pacenti, who is the one responsible for the whole 650B industry shift in mountain bikes, called the 650B / 27.5 when he had the first bike and tires on display at the NAHBS in I think it was winter 2007-08 because his tires he had made, the Neo-Moto 2.3s, were 27.5 when inflated.
  • + 2
 Your comparing three different models that are different widths and surprised that the result isn't a perfect slope... apples, oranges and grapefruits people...
  • + 1
 Don't forget that running tires bigger than 2.125 will make your 26" wheels larger than 26". Who really cares if 650b is EXACTLY in the middle. Most of us can feel the difference between 2.1 and 2.4" tires, so logically we should be able to feel differences larger than that. Smile When I was racing BMX on 26" wheels, many 2.0 tires were taller than 26" inflated. It mattered at the provincials where the bikes were inspected, as the rules limit diameter to 26".
  • + 1
 Also even for the same brand and wheel size and claimed width, you will get a variance in diameters with different models. Racing ralphs and nobby nics come in the same widths and basically share casings, but the RaRa has a much lower tread height so the overall wheel is easily a quarter inch smaller diameter than the NoNi.
[Reply]
  • + 5
 Here are some phrases I really like.

ultra-simple single pivot design
reliability and extremely low maintenance
12x142 thru axle
complete bikes starting at $2599
last for multiple seasons of hard use
simple, durable, do-it-all bike that makes it possible to enjoy the geometry of the Bronson in a less pricey package
[Reply]
  • + 5
 Quite frankly, I think the industry needs more bikes like this. Wheelsize is irrelevant here. Yes, the finely engineered multi-pivoted exotic-materialied, super-linkaged unberbikes are a joy to behold and ride. But the price tag isn't, nor is the worry about keeping it functioning like the day it was new. For the majority of the riders, a straightforward, durable bike is exactly what is needed and will work out the best. For me, perfection in a bike is pretty much exactly what's being offered here, albeit for a bigger premium than I'd personally be willing to pay for the level of componentry. One pivot, thru-axles on both ends, threaded BB, good 'ol aluminum, and a solid build. Now if only it came in a raw finish...
[Reply]
  • + 4
 "I think on the consumer side there is a desire for some sort of better mousetrap/magic bullet – a wheel size between 26″ and 29″ that will combine all the positive attributes of both into one bike that will do everything. That desire is a bit naive, but people go down that road all the time."

Mike Ferrentino, Bike Rumor , 6/6/12.
I guess it's only naive until your company is the one making the bike...err mousetrap.

I understand that opinions and views can change, but in one year?

This is why so many people are against the new wheel size:

Every company not making one says its not much different UNTIL they're the ones making them.
[Reply]
  • + 8
 Where is the Santa Cruz 650B Razor scooter?
  • + 1
 Right alongside the 650B penny board and ultra-trick, urbanized 650B fixxie.
  • + 18
 I think 'm gonna change my toilet seat to 650b as well.
  • + 5
 one to many big mac's and you will be upsizing to a 29er toilet seat!!!!
  • - 1
 No. I started eating porriage now so I will be upgrading from 29" to 650b, preferably carbon with no bead.
[Reply]
  • + 3
 I'm sure PB will catch onto this when they get around to posting a review of the new Ibis Mojo HD-R, but Anne Caroline Chausson is now riding hers with the new Mavic 650B wheels and Maxxis tires. When the most winning gravity and BMX event racing woman in the world, who isn't exactly the tallest either, adopts the wheels... its pretty much going to influence a crap load of riders to try them out also.
[Reply]
  • + 3
 650b vs 26 is just like camber vs rocker in the ski/snowboard industry a few years back. everybody abandoned camber asap and praised the characteristics of rocker. after a few years of fallout, there are some who still love the attributes of rocker but some have gone back to what they originally loved. the same initial barrage is happening now. don't be a sheep and sell all your 26" stuff just because you're told to.
26 may have been the go-to wheel size for 25 years but it wasn't questioned all that much because it rips. if you need bigger wheels to help you climb faster, maybe you just need to get fitter. if you need better rollover descending, maybe you need to work on wheeliing (sp) and manueling your bike. Im blowing doors of all my homies on a sb-66c up and down, regardless of their wheelsize....just sayin.
  • + 3
 Rocker is the only way to go when powder skiing! Definitely not a gimmick! I don't really know about the 26er, 27.5er, 29er business though.
  • + 1
 i agree with the first half but not the second half. camber and rocker have their places, and so do the different wheelsizes. it's up to the people. i rip a lot of people on cross country trails with my kona honzo, but it doesn't mean people should stick to steel hardtails or that they should convert to 29ers.
  • + 1
 It's funny how I blow by some guys on sb-66c, Nomad or HD. And I ride a Tallboy LTc...

There's always going to be a fitter and/or faster guy/gal! Seems like your homies need to be fitter to catch up to a fit you.

Some of my homies are faster than me even on a tricycle!

The fastest bike is the bike you're comfortable on. Ask the WC guys!

And rocker skis are no fad and/or marketing hype. DPS Wailer everywhere. Sucks in moguls but still works. Like a tricycle down Val di Sol run...
[Reply]
  • + 7
 why didnt i wait to buy my heckler!!!!!!!
  • - 6
 Because this one is the fkng same thing?
  • + 0
 ^ you mad bro?
  • - 6
 Cuban-b - "if you can't tell the difference - why do you care?" You can't - so shut up, and ket the bro enjoy his 26er!
  • + 2
 You obviously don't know what I ride. Take it easy bro, you might enjoy life that way.
  • + 2
 Waki here's a (SC) nickels worth of advice: remove foot from mouth, then speak.
[Reply]
  • + 3
 Man SC is on a new release tear...my friend just ordered one of the last 26" 2013 Hecklers and I would love to try this 650B version up against it to satisfy or decimate my anti-anything-that-isn't-26" mentality. Either way, single-pivot rips! I had a 1996 Heckler, a 1999 Heckler, and the a 2001 Bullit that just died last year. The Bullit raced DH, and XC and was dead reliable when I could only afford one bike. Now I have a 2012 SC Butcher as the replacement for the Bullit and I absolutely love it. Even tho it is single-pivot, I swear the rear feels more supple than my 2010 Big Hit FSR with tons of pivot points. Either way, SC will sell tons of these things. Dont' fear single pivot! with the small aircan Fox shock it will feel great.
[Reply]
  • + 6
 I want it because its 650B
  • + 3
 I dont want it because its 650B
  • + 2
 I want it because I never met my father ;'(
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Deeeight, I'm curious as to which two bikes you are comparing. Not trolling, just interested to see. Can you tell me which frame and shock was 26 and which was 650B? Also, how do tire and rim weights compare? How about HA and BB height?

Is there any chance there's more to it than wheel size? I know for sure you could compare two 26ers and reach the same conclusion.

I'm quite certain that if you change wheel sizes there will be a difference so I'm not about to start arguing that. I would just like to see the frame of reference you are working from. I'm curious about everyone's experiences as only few people have actually put time on these but it's useless to compare without evaluating the frame of reference.

Cheers
  • + 2
 I'm not deeight, but I have compared my Mojo SL back to back on the same loop with carbon 26" wheels, and with aluminum 650b wheels. I thought for sure the carbon wheels would mask any advantage the 650b might present. I figured if the cheaper 650b wheels were equal in performance to the high end carbon wheels, I would invest in some high end rims and spokes. Same tires on each wheel size. The 650b is much better at flow. It stalls out less, maintains speed better, has better traction in the corners. It holds a line better in the rough. The difference is similar to switching from a revelation to a lyric in difference in feel. Its just more secure. The last time I felt that kind of difference was when I bough a set of cobalt wheels to replace the cheap generic wheels (Shimano deore hubs, straight guage spokes, brass nipples, and Disc o Flea rims.) Even with the less exotic build, the 650b was faster and funner in almost every way. I could ride longer with less fatigue, which is more fun right? We do intervals for fitness, but ride for fun. It was slightly slower in acceleration, but I later laced up a set of 650b carbon rims, and most of that difference disappeared.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Who cares about the wheelsize between a 26" or 650B or 27.5". It's just semantics. What the bike is about is the single pivot frame. It's built for one thing - going down the mountain - fast. With good suspension on that bike, it's awesome! I'm not sure about a single pivot bike's ability to go up as efficiently as a 4-bar linkage bike, though. Single pivot sucks up huge bumps like you're floating in air. That's what they're built to do and it's all pure physics.
[Reply]
  • + 5
 Now we are talking $2599 for complete bike! Woohoo!
  • + 3
 Norco Range Killer-B3 is 10mm more suspension front and rear, can be raised to 170mm, is of similar weight, and costs right around the same price. The FSR-based suspension design is very good as well.

I'd be interested to ride all of the "sub-$3000" 150mm+ bikes (including the low-end RM Altitude) to find out which is the best climber.
  • + 0
 skulpture a decent spec in the uk will be just shy of £4000 don't get too excited, santa cruz bikes are horrendously overpriced
  • + 1
 ^ compared to what other manufacturers? Specialized??
  • + 1
 the likes of canyon and YT industries and even cube bikes are far better value, my current strive AL8 is a far higher spec and lighter than the heckler XT build and it's just over HALF the price

www.santacruzbikes.co.uk/heckler#builder

www.yt-industries.com/shop/en/Bikes/Trail/Wicked-650B

www.canyon.com/_en/mountainbikes/bike.html?b=3047
[Reply]
  • + 1
 In the market for a new Santa Cruz and I want to try the 650B's. Was debating between the Solo and Bronson but now they have my Heckler (used to ride a 2008 Heckler and loved it)... I should have tried to buy the Solo yesterday or the day before. The Santa Cruz Website had the R AM build at $3,299 just the other day and now it is at $3,753. Bronson went from $3,399 to $3,802. Hello Heckler R AM kit... my new bike at $2,999 until tomorrow when it goes up to $3,499!
[Reply]
  • + 4
 are all of their bikes gonna be 650b? Man, its like once every couple weeks there is a new 650b from santa cruz
  • + 4
 Which says something because this time last year they were essentially trying to ignore the whole wheel format as being a "fad".
  • + 2
 youre 100% right. it says that the project managers for SC believed that there would be a lot of money in that segment of the market for 2013 and 2014 and SC wants to align themselves as a leader in this wheel size. that is all these new bikes that seem to be coming out every week say.
  • + 4
 santa cruz also said that they could find no measurable performance improvement from a 26" wheel, they've simply done it because of market pressure.
  • + 1
 As the frames are due a geometry tweek I'm sure there thinking which will sell more, 650 (we know there's as good as no difference) or 26"... Also there must be a spacer available so you can mount your 26" kit on a 650 frame, spread the cost of the upgrade.

Interested to hear how the new rear axle stiffens the rear compared to the previous heckler.
  • + 3
 Yeah, likely will in time. However, out of the 90 or so riders at th toonie race last night here in North Vancouver, there were about 4-5 650b bikes. 26" tires will be available for years, don't worry
  • + 1
 "Which says something because this time last year they were essentially trying to ignore the whole wheel format as being a "fad".
Well..still is ..lol ...they are only one more company jumping the band wagon.
  • + 0
 and last year there likely weren't any at those toonie races. next year they'll likely be dozens.
  • + 1
 and the year after that there will be the "new improved 666b standard"...lol
  • + 1
 no chainslap on the Hecklers
  • + 1
 no chainslap on anything with an elevated driveside chainstay/swingarm.
[Reply]
  • + 5
 Interesting that the new Deore group has recieved almost no coverage.
  • + 5
 Yea - Even Top Gear tests Opel Astra...
  • + 4
 it has away from PB... PB don't cover anything that's that good on that low a price!
  • + 1
 I think its the latest issue of Dirt they gave it a 1-page blurb, which is something but they didn't really go into a lot of details about it.
  • + 1
 The brakes are ridiculously good for the price. most bang for your buck at the moment.
  • + 1
 They have been for a while. I do remember tho whn they were leaky and crap but it's nice that all the good important stuff trickles down: Power, Options, Longevity. (Not so much with the servo wave adjust which seems to do nothing on my XT brakes, fortunately not present on SLX and lower).
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I've got one of the original "up-dated" Heckler's...blew thru a few swing arms, all warrantied (& ima 230# Holstein!!!) until they finally went to the 15mm collet pivot. But, what a great bike it's been! p-dub-4 spoke about "pop"....exactly why I chose this over the Nomad. Good for SC to keep updating a venerable design, and keeping it affordable.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 ..this particular single pivot still will suffer from the same chainslap/ brake jacking issues as its predecessor. But now has the "New" 27.5" wheels to sell it in current times. Razz
  • + 1
 Only if you give a shit sbout chain slap and the dreaded brake jack....…….........
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Humm

Heckler Ram, convert to 1x10, add enve rims, swap the frame out for bronson carbon.

Think that's my upgrades for the next 4 years :-)
  • + 1
 You read my mind.
[Reply]
  • + 0
 Yes...let's stick with 26er, a random, arbitrary wheel size that ended up being the industry standard.

Personally, I want to go back to skiing on skinny skis from the 80s, because that's what I learned to ski on and why would I want to give product companies my hard earned money for a fat ski? Never mind the fact that they vastly improve the experience and have changed the way people ski...for the better. 26 is like the tape cassette...dead.
  • + 1
 Because fat skis were an actual innovation in materials and engineering, resulting in a product that actually performed and felt superior, not a marketing campaign.
  • + 1
 Yeah cos 27.5 and 29 inch wheels make absolutely no difference whatsoever... Which is why no one races XC and even to a point Enduro on 26 inch wheels anymore - that was a freak accident and they'll all switch back to 26 next year when they realise 'it was just marketing - silly us!'

Can you read sarcasm?
  • + 1
 Yes, stupid you. Sponsored riders riding what they're told to is definitive proof that something is better.
  • + 1
 ...and race results speak for themselves. Stupid.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 i'm diggin the 90's color scheme. i love that SC tries to keep their tried and true die hard fan favorites around and updated.
[Reply]
  • + 3
 650B is not my thing, wish they would go away!
  • + 3
 Why the 650b hate?
  • - 1
 Because it's a marketing wheelsize.
  • + 10
 i'm 6ft4inches and in all honesty i think that 650b just puts a bike into perspective for me. i am running XL frames so why should i use the same wheelsize as a 5ft9 person on a small or medium. if everything on the bike gets bigger why not the wheels to?
i feel you on the marketing hype thing but i think there is a place for these wheels and i think santa cruz is all over it because they are getting so much positive feedback from there riders who are all over 6 foot tall running larger frames so it makes sense
  • + 7
 Have you ridden one?
  • + 0
 Because they're scared that the nasty marketing men from Wall Street are going to take away their puppies and 26" wheels and leave them with nothing to suck on!
  • + 14
 Nooooo....26 inch was the marketing wheelsize... it was chosen because it was all that was readily available in the north America parts supply market in the late 70s when Mountain Biking was moving from a bunch of weirdos in jeans converting cruisers and racing the repack DH to actual mainstream production bikes anyone could buy in a store. But the pioneers of the sport as far as production bikes go...Tom Ritchey, Gary Fisher, and Charlie Kelly... they wanted to use 650B and 700C off-road tires from the beginning. Well now 700C has taken hold in mountain bikes, and so has 650B. And the original "marketing" size is on its way out.
  • + 4
 deeeight nailed it! So funny to read all this 650B Scare, while Mountainbikes are just following a simple History when it comes to Wheelsize: Back to the Roots! ;-)
  • + 3
 of course they did deeelight that's why it took them 30 years to start knocking out clown bikes, i have nothing against 650b as a size (its indistinguishable from 26") i just dislike the dishonesty of the bike stylists that claim they are better, faster, smoother etc.
people are not pissed off because the wheel sizes have changed they are pissed off because now if someone wants to get a new frame chances are they are going to need a new set of forks, wheels, tyres and tubes too.
  • - 4
 Go back to the roots indeed, it is a proven design refined with latest technology - next is hydraulic Ice-tech cantilevers. eat it btch!
  • + 8
 I find it funny the resistance to wheel sizes. It's just a wheel size. It's still a mountain bike. All mountain bikes have the potential to be fun. I'll be the very first to admit, when the whole 29er thing first came about and then when the first 650b bikes started popping up I was one of the riders who resisted. I loved my 26" wheels and I wanted to keep them. I rode a 29er on a short section of trail and thought it wasn't for me. Then, by chance I tried a 650b bike. I thought "this has potential" . I decided to be open minded about it, and sold my bike and bought a KHS 656XC. I have to say, I absolutely love it. It's a nice snappy 5" travel bike. It handles well and it's a lot of fun. I find the whole 650b is indistinguishable from 26" is a bit misleading. Same with "they're closer to 27". My 650b wheels with 2.2 WTB Wolverine tires measure just a tiny bit uner 28". I rode my friend's 26" bike the other day and I was very surprised at how different the wheels felt. The way they feel when they turn and roll is definitely noticeable. I just find there are very real benefits to the 650b size. You may or may not agree with me, and that's fine. All types of bikes , wheel sizes, suspension, frame materials, are just a matter of opinion. I honestly think that most 26" riders would fall in love with the "new" wheel size like I have if they give it a chance. They look good as well. There's no denying 29" wheels are drastically different looking than 26" bikes (not saying a 29er looks bad). Most 650b bikes look very similar to 26" models. The fact that I love my 650b bike so much even makes me more open minded to 29" bikes than I used to be. Bikes are fun, bottom line. Time for everyone to embrace the changes to the sport. It's progress for the better, in my opinion.
  • + 3
 as a 6ft6in guy i must give props to 650b, not trying to force it on anyone the way 29ers were/ are from specialized I'm just saying they are quick and they give stability to my tall and delicate body.
  • + 0
 I'm personaly as pissed at people ditching wheel sizes as those who horn and peep that this and that is the future. I went through "that is the best" in the primary school. What's the best aircraft carrier, what's the best sportscar etc., who's the best pilot in the world.

Right now we are at the top of the hype, it will go down in less than 2 years, and we won't see it actualy clarifying itself until 2016-18 . It is called the Hype-cycle and is recognized in all businesses with all products and technologies. Some are released to soon, some too late, for instance Google released "the Cloud" waaay too early, thus nobody knows whether it will work at all. The masters of it are the guys from Apple. Right shit at the right time. 650B is at the right time to me, but don't delude yourself anyone that it isn't over-inflated and that it is going to kill 26"
  • + 1
 Mountain-man78, was your mates 26 the same brand, model and suspension set up?
  • - 3
 Lastnight I took out one of my remaining 26er full suspensions from my collection for a ride on a trail loop that I'd ridden only a few days before on a 650B hardtail and boy did it feel.... WRONG... trails were damp from rain the day before but still, I was having to pay a lot more attention to turns and going over rocks and roots because the bike kept breaking traction a LOT more easily than it does with bigger wheels. And this was even with tires within a tenth of an inch in width to my 650Bs, and a tread pattern and compound a lot better suited to the trail conditions. Definitely have no regrets with my plan to take the bike apart today and rebuild it to sell off.
  • + 3
 I agree that 650b will take over, of that I have no doubt, and my next bike will be 27.5. But could people please stop telling me how shit 26 is. I just don't buy that the new wheel size so vastly superior that bikes that where considered fantastic only a couple of years ago are suddenly rubbish.
  • + 0
 Deeeight, I meant to reply to your comment but instead it ended up below. If you don't mind, have a look and let me know. Cheers.
  • - 2
 Hmmm there are people able to notice half of a degree of head angle change, then 5mm of cs length or can rant for days on wheel base lengths. 2 psi of tyre pressure, or in the air fork, one click of rebound, you get the idea... Those who come to the shop with pendulum and a measuring tape... Jah bless them for the time they spend measuring and feeling those measurements as if it mattered to anyone but themselves
  • + 1
 ^ I'm happy you've identified yourself as just another bike shop douche. Thank you for being a steward of the cycling community Smile
  • + 1
 Wait a second!! pb changed my comment, thats not what I originally wrote!!!
  • - 1
 @Kramster... until 2008 all my own personal mountain bikes were 26ers (I'm fractionally under 6'7 so I wasn't resisting bigger wheels because I couldn't fit the bikes, and I've been riding mountain bikes since 1987) when I got a fully rigid 29er and then did a 650B conversion in the same summer. My next series of bikes, for myself, were in sequence, a 29er softtail, a 650B hardtail, a 650B full suspension, then a 26er fat bike and then a 29er full suspension (the earlier softtail literally was one, a Salsa Dos Niner). The one I took out lastnight was a Amp Research B-3 that I've owned over ten years, and have thousands of hours of riding on, and I haven't bothered to ride it previously since last year. Except for my winter fat bike, the only times I willingly take a 26er out of my collection to ride anymore is for nostalgia reasons (and my fat bike might as well be a 29er as that's the inflated diameter of the tires) or because it won the dice roll (I have so many bikes, my girlfriend made me some decision dice for my birthday to roll to pick a bike when I cannot decide). Its also why I'm clearing out a lot of my collection of vintage bikes as I see no joy in riding them anymore myself, not when I have a hell of a lot more fun on bigger wheels.
  • + 3
 So your 10 yr old Amp with 1000s of hours felt bad, huh? Wow, very profound. Your tired and loose fs felt like shite, this experiment is definitive proof that 650 is better. And your going to take it apart and sell this piece of crap to some fool?
  • + 2
 @maxman6000: my buddy's bike is very close in geo, suspension setup, and even frame size, a Giant Trance X. They aren't the same bike, and I realize there are a lot of factors that go into how a bike handles. You can notice the turning differences and rolling differences though, it just makes sense. A bigger wheel will feel different. I'm not saying any wheel size is better. No wheel size can ever be better than another. They're just different. They all ride different, and whatever ride qualities you prefer will basically dictate what wheel size is right for you. For me, I find the 650b ride characteristics suit my style better than my 26" bike did. I'm not sure a 29er would be what I would like. I'm only 5'7" tall and a 29er doesn't seem to fit me well. Anyone who thinks one size is better than the other is being narrow minded. They all have pros and cons. The interesting thing for me is the hatred for the different sizes. No one seemed to hate virtual pivot point suspension when it came along, arguing that they'll die with their single pivot bike. It's only a wheel, what's the problem? Are people afraid they won't enjoy biking as much on a different wheel size? The argument that it's being forced upon us by manufacturers is BS too. Of course manufacturers are trying to sell their new products, but who cares? That's the case with all bike products. What about air sprung suspension over coil? What about hydration packs, what about neck braces? Wider handlebars, dropper posts, tubeless tires, dual crown forks. There was a time when all those things were new to the sport and none of them have had the controversy of the wheel size debate. Personally, I think everyone should ride what works for them. That doesn't mean that the industry will agree with you though. If the new products work for the majority of riders they will become the norm. It's why we don't all still ride on full rigid bikes with cantilever brakes and big bar ends.
  • + 1
 @slowdownU/// I have other 26er bikes newer than that Amp and I don't ride them anymore either. And yes, I'm going to get more selling the Amp frame than what I paid for it originally. Moron trolls like yourself may not grasp this without being told, but vintage bikes and parts are in demand now.
  • + 0
 Troll? Your credibility continues to erode. The Amp is superseded only by the Proflex as the biggest piece of crap of its era. Every one came back to the shop within 6mos all loosey goosey. That rear end had more flex than, even when new, than an gymnast on Valium. There's a reason that design doesn't exist anymore. Now go cry with the rest of your "vintage" bike collector tool box friends.
  • + 1
 Yeah... It was only the most popular and copied suspension design of the 90s. And the only one crying here is you.
  • + 1
 Mountain man78, my first comment was a little clumsy. I wasn't arguing against the new wheel size, I can certainly see it has bright future and more than likely will be the go to size for both manufactures and riders into the future. My argument is that some of the huge advantages that certain people on this site are endorsing, might be a little overstated. Like you said there are pros and cons on both sides. With that being said I was passed on the trail yesterday like I was standing still, he rode a 26 and his mate quite a way back was on a 29. Rider ability will always trump wheel size.
  • + 2
 Deeeight - AMP? Dos Niner? you've lost me mate... please get quality 10 hours on something less "ambitious" like 2007 or newer Giant Reign or Trek Fuel, and we might talk wheel size differences. There only a few old bikes that live up to modern standards (2003 Spec Enduro) just like some of "new" bikes (like Salsa) are still living the nostalgia of the 90s both in design and geometry - Fair enough, thank God we have diversity. But you refer to performance all the time and in that matter your Salsa would be ripped apart by bikes like SC Blur TR, Stumpy Evo 26 or probably even Orange Five.

Retro shit gets popular indeed, just as fixies. Where is the relevance though?
  • + 1
 @Wakidweeb... yes... an Amp... unlike many brands, they supported their frames well past the time they ceased making them, you can still to this day get bushing/link pins for them, and seals for the shocks and disc brakes, and pads, and rotors. And the company got out of bikes because there's very little money to be made in them when there's a shitton to be made in the automotive world. It wasn't anything wrong with their designs... in fact their designs led to patents which the company you seem to worship, specialized, bought a couple of them, after having hired Amp Research to design their bikes for them. And narrow minded trolls like yourself constantly love tell lies and make up lame arguments to try and sound like you know something. I have thousands of hours on my Amp, and thousands on other designs. I've been riding mountain bikes for 26 years now. As to 2007 or newer... the five bikes I listed as having built up... the fully rigid 29er, the softtail 29er, the hardtail and fully 650Bs, and the fat bike were all 2008 or newer. And as to what a Stumpy Evo 26 can do I really don't care, nor a SC Blur TR. I won't own a specialized as I don't support companies with their lack of business ethics with my money, and as to SC, I've not been impressed over the years by their designs, and I used to sell them. As to Orange... yeah a single pivot like them or hell the Heckler that this article was about really matters to me. Sorry but I did my time with E-stay high single pivots in the 90s and I have no need for them today.
  • + 1
 I told you once that it is not about the quantity but quality. And if your skills,thus validity of your opinion is as qualitative as that AMP or all those other bikes in your buy/sell then sorry mate...

BTW - I really dont know what dweeb means so you are just wasting your time. You might as well call me doheap
  • - 5
 Yes, and I'd say given that I get emails complimenting me from bike designers and editors and the other people who run this site and you don't... says I've got quality in spades and you've got zip f all.
  • + 1
 Dweeb means dork, nerd, geek, or another pejorative for not fitting in, you doheap Big Grin
  • - 1
 Deeeight - buahaha... you like compliments don't you. I like the way the red fork goes with the rest of the bike. I recieved compliments from a horny hairy dude in the club

The fact that I haven't heard of the term dweeb even though I listen to English and American stand up few hours per week means that it is a sense of humour as particular as d8's bikes.

Cuban-b stop trying so hard to come in between yall... You'll end up with one in your ass and the other in your eye.

Fkng 6ft guy having issues with 26" wheels and his cuban doggie raau! reeau! rreau! Compliments... Ohoho what a douche
  • - 1
 More gibberish from the loon. Really pointless to try and correct such a moron. He wouldn't get a point even if it involved the end of a pickaxe driving into his skull.
  • + 0
 Heh mate you are riding old junk and telling people about what's gonna work in the future. Who's a loon?
  • + 2
 Yes but anyone but a troll would have read EVERYTHING I've said, not just the one thing that suits his lame argument skills. Yes I've owned an Amp B3 for over a decade. I've also owned a LOT of other bikes. And as to the Amp, until the other night, I had not used it in a year. Anyone not a troll, would have been able to surmise then, that I my pointing out that I haven't ridden 26er anything (other than my fat bike) is over a year to mean I do all my riding on 29ers and 650Bs. And since 650s at least didn't exist in modern terms since 2008... that that means the bikes I ride all the time are a lot newer than an Amp.

But you are simply a troll and incapable of proper reasoning and debate. All you can do is use schoolyard type arguments and hope you get read before you're negatively propped out of sight.
  • + 2
 Waki, seek anger management. If you're this angry over the Internet, I'd be afraid to have a constructive conversation with you in real life. Take it easy mate, I was just trying to help out, no need to get your panties in a bunch. You said you didn't know what a word meant, so I clarified. Does that not qualify as helping out? Smile
  • + 2
 How can people take you seriously (since that is your objective) when you say things like, "Heh mate you are riding old junk and telling people about what's gonna work in the future. Who's a loon?" Amongst your other rhetoric.
  • + 1
 gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Boy-That-Escalated-Quickly-Anchorman.gif

Hey doheaps.

Not wanting to get in the way of your little tiff here, before all the childish mud slinging started I thought Waki may have had a point: Comparing a modern 650B bike to a 1990's 26er is a little unfair. A more relevant test might be a series of 26" bikes vs 650B equilavents vs 29 equilavents.

But then we would have to factor in different disciplines, different types of trails within each of those disciplines, different rider body types, heights and inner leg and arm measurements.

But then I got really bored at the prospect and realised it's different strokes for different folks and as Joe Graney wisely pointed out: "You can make shitty 26er's, you can make shitty 29er's, you can make shitty 650bs. You can also make really good ones."

WHEN IS THIS BULLSHIT NON-ARGUEMENT GOING TO END...?!
  • + 2
 Oh I fully agree with you, and just like anything else, there are ways of expressing this without being a total dick. Btw, excellent use of doheap
  • + 2
 Never heard that insult before...!
  • + 0
 Bike magazines have done such tests though... MBA especially loves to do wheel size comparios... they tested three KHS hardtails in one, and three full suspensions in another (KHS was chosen because they offer both hardtails and full suspensions in all three wheel sizes, at similar price points and component levels). And in both the tests MBA conducted, the 650Bs won. Similar results have happened with other magazines (print ones) comparing wheelsizes.

Look...people seem SOOO concerned about my bikes and how old/new they are for me to make my own comparisons for my own riding and my own trails... fine, here is what they include for non vintage/snow/road/cross models.... Oh all my bikes run bash guards/rockrings and all have thumbshifters (except my road/cross bikes which have STI levers)

Eclipse Kinetic FS4, 100mm front and rear, 26 x 2.3 Hutchinson Scorpion Elite Gold tires, 4-bar horst-link aluminium frame, setup 2 x 8 with bash guard. I last road it on a night ride last fall. Built in October 2006.

Eclipse Hero FS4, 100mm rear and 100-120-140 front, 650B x 2.0 Pacenti Quasi Moto tires, 4-bar horst-link (same as the above in layout) Carbon/Scandium frame, setup 2 x 10. Built july 2010.

Haro Beasley, 125mm front, 650B x 2.3 Pacenti Neo Moto tires, chromoly frame hardtail, setup 2x9. Built june 2009.

Salsa Dos Niner, 25mm rear and 100mm front, 29 x 2.4/2.25 Schwalbe Racing Ralph tires, softtail scandium frame, 2 x 9 drivetrain. Built august 2009

Salsa Spearfish, 80mm rear and 100mm front, 29 x 2.4 Schwalbe Racing Ralph tires, single-pivot linkage aluminium frame, 2 x 9 drivetrain. Built in October 2012.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 A $3000 27.5 inch bike with similar bronson geometry, fox supension and slx/xt components? Hell yes!
[Reply]
  • + 3
 so i just found my new bike pretty much.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 I just built up my "Beckler" not a week ago then this comes out. Heading out for a lotto ticket right now...
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Elevated chainstays = one of the grossest things you can do to a bike.

Sorry, I don't care what anyone says.. I thought we were past that nasty, chain slapping crap..
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Lol. Please go by a SC bike you deserve all the 650b propaganda they are feeding you. Do everyone who doesn't ride SC a favor.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Oh boy, Waki's off his meds again. Everyone hide
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Oh no! a 650b bike! Hmm the sky hasn't fallen yet. Must be waiting on a 29er version.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I was going to buy a Carbon Blur LT but I see they are discontinued. Frame prices are up this year as well.
  • + 1
 The good thing is if you can find one they are cheap. I scored a frame for $1500 shipped
  • + 1
 huge disappointment SC the bltc is an awesome bike.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 That blue color reminds me of the 80's pastel age or Easter. :/
[Reply]
  • + 2
 NOO!! .. bike review have to be after WC news!! .. Frown
[Reply]
  • + 2
 They stole the design from Foes.
[Reply]
  • + 0
 i haven't buy my bronson yet and all this santa cruz bikes updated keep coming out! wish santa cruz or there sponsor give us all free bikes.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Which came first. Heckler or Orange 5?
  • + 2
 In my Opinion the Bullit as the bigger brother of the Heckler with almost the same Frame. The Article from the Link below shows the "Ancient" Bullit at the last 2 Pictures.

www.nsmb.com/5629-hey-neighbour
  • + 2
 Kim Steed's bike in that link is a Heckler...
  • + 0
 an orange five is just a heckler that doesn't handle like there is a hinge in the middle, you can't really compare them, 1 is a hand built boutique bike the other is a taiwan factory budget frame.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 @ PINKBIKE - the link to SantaCruz's website is broken - missing the 's' on the end....
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Looks like SC got rid of a few models...Blur, Blur LT no longer listed on their website
  • + 1
 They are selling the BlurLT (looks like the carbon) frame now in their online store...
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Santa Cruz are turning out bikes like there is no tomorrow!
[Reply]
  • + 2
 I want 650 c, or why did people skip 650a?
  • + 1
 650c is the road bike derivative of 27.5
  • + 1
 650C is a smaller rim size, 650A is larger and actually you see 650A and 650B labeled similarly... the former is also called 26 x 1 3/8 and the later 26 x 1 1/2. The letters refered to the tire width needed to achieve the nominal number diameter when inflated(higher letters meant wider tires). Look at old city cruiser type bikes from the 60s and 70s. You'll see the tire probably is labeled as one of those fractional 26 inch numbers, and they'll be a bead seat diameter listed on the tires of 584 (650B) or 590 (650A) then a hyphen and a 2 digit number which would be the tire width in mm. For example, 584 - 40.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Santa Cruz is just slapping every bike possible with 650b's....
  • + 2
 Coming next: Jackal and V.10!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 now bring back the bullit, i miss mine
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Why Heckler, and not a 650B revised Butcher with it´s APP-Suspension?
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Bring back the Super 8 in 650b with Monster Fork!!!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 just got one. its awesome
[Reply]
  • + 1
 heckler, bronson, solo, I'm a bit lost
[Reply]
  • - 2
 Looks great and ride great i love mine, but its time for an updated design, just seem a little "bland" compared to some of the other bikes on the market now.
  • + 9
 The idea is a simple, durable bike. Any more pivots and that would go out the window
  • + 3
 If you want something more snazzy go for a Blur LT, Blur TR, Tallboy LT, Nomad, Solo or Bronson...
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Looks like Orange....
[Reply]
  • - 2
 How to re-invent a tired design and make a quick buck - brought to you by SC.
  • + 8
 Have you ever ridden a heckler?
  • + 1
 Didn't think so
[Reply]
  • + 0
 RIP 26" wheels...
  • + 3
 26 Aint going anywhere
  • + 1
 Aint going anywhere ..they have gone the way of the wooden wagon.
[Reply]
  • - 2
 650b nomad please
  • + 2
 It's called the Bronson, I would rather an Intense 27.5 Uzzi.
  • + 2
 Bronson has different travel, TT length, CS length, and BB height than Nomad. Hardly a 650b version of a Nomad.
  • + 2
 I'm sure a 650b Nomad will be SC's next announcement in a couple of weeks. They're running out of models to convert to the mid-wheel.
[Reply]
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