Maxxis, Magura, and e*thirteen - Interbike 2013

Sep 18, 2013 at 0:09
Sep 18, 2013
by Mike Levy  
 
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Maxxis Shorty

The New Maxxis Shorty has been designed as a proper soft terrain downhill race tire that isn't as wet condition-specific as their Wet Screams, the tires that racers often trim down to be slightly less aggressive for use in mixed conditions. And while it does clearly employ tall lugs that are spaced widely to shed mud and offer good penetration, its round-ish crown and staggered side knobs have been chosen for their consistency in changing track environments - all signs that the Shorty will excel in more than just the worst slop. As with most of Maxxis' high-performance rubber, the Shorty utilizes their 3C rubber make-up that sees it assembled from, you guessed it, three different durometers of rubber. The specific mix used for the Shorty is something called Maxxgrip, a downhill oriented blend that uses a stiffer base for support, with two much softer and slower rebounding rubber compounds laid over top. This is in contrast to their Maxxspeed mix employed on their cross-country tires that puts more of an emphasis on rolling speed, or their Maxxterra combination that is a compromise intended for trail bike use. The Shorty's 3C Maxxgrip rubber is applied over a true, dual-ply downhill casing that features 60 TPI construction, with the finished product coming in at a very downhill-only 1250 grams. Although the Shorty is currently only available in a single 26" x 2.4" size, Maxxis did hint that they are contemplating offering the tire in other diameters and widths in the future. MSRP $85 USD.

www.maxxis.com




Magura

Magura's battery powered compression damper, the eLECT, uses a 3D accelerometer and micro-sized piezoelectric motor to alter the amount of low-speed compression damping to better suit the attitude of the bike. If that sounds like science fiction, keep in mind that the tiny 3D accelerometer found within the damper is very similar to what an iPhone uses to "right" the display regardless of which orientation the phone is used in, and that its piezoelectric motor is far from being new technology - it's all existing components, with Magura adapting their use to control the eLECT damper. How does it work? The 3D accelerometer senses the angle of the bike and tells the the pint sized motor to either open the compression damping ports if the bike is angled down or level, or close them to firm up the fork if it is angled up during a climb. The motor rotates a disc with three kidney shaped openings that correspond to openings on the compression piston, either aligning the openings to allow the oil to flow and the fork to go through its travel, or rotating it roughly an eighth of a turn to close off the oil passages and firm the fork up. Magura have also incorporated a blow-off, although the fork won't sag into its travel when locked out like with their DLO system, a useful feature for preserving handling on climbs. The system's operating window can be tweaked manually by "zeroing" the damper on either a slight incline or decline by holding down the reset button for a few seconds, effectively tricking it into thinking the terrain is either more level or more sloped, and therefore changing when it firms up.

The eLECT system doesn't alter the low-speed compression instantly, with a slight delay that is similar to how long it takes your phone's display to change, about a second or so, which means that the design might not be best suited to an aggressive trail rider who is looking for wide open performance. And while Magura readily admits that fact, they do also say that the eLECT damper offers some serious performance advantages when talking about efficiency for the sporty trail rider or cross-country racer.

Magura

The damper's built-in battery can be charged via a micro-USB cord (similar to what many phones and cameras use), and Magura says that it lasts 40 hours when set to automatic to allow the 3D accelerometer and micro-sized piezoelectric motor to work full-time. Want more control over the lockout? A handlebar mounted remote is an optional accessory that lets the rider operate the damper manually, with a 60 hour battery life if they choose to do so, and the system simply reverts to being full-open if the battery dies on the trail. Interestingly, the eLECT damper can be retrofitted to Magura's TS8 R, TS6 forks, as well as all of their suspension forks from 2010 on, although we suspect that it makes the most sense on their forks that feature 120mm of travel or less.

www.magura.com



e13 Interbike 2013

e*thirteen showed us their 104mm BCD Guidering that utilizes a narrow/wide tooth profile that has been proven to do an excellent job of holding the chain in place, making them a great upgrade for riders who are looking for a simple single-ring drivetrain setup, and we've even started to see downhill racers also using the rings in conjunction with a full chain guide for even more security. This new version shown here features a nifty offset machined face that lets users adjust their chainline between 49 and 50mm depending on which side faces out, a clever setup that should allow for perfect alignment.

e13

With immense amounts of traction and a massive platform, their standard LG1+ pedal is already our absolute favourite option when it comes to platform pedals for downhilling, but e*thirteen wanted to offer a lighter version for racers or those who like to count grams. The result is the new LG1r pedal that, with revised heat treated aluminum pins and a titanium axle, weigh in at a claimed 380 grams. That's 88 grams lighter than the standard version. Regardless of their lighter weight, the LG1r pedal still features e*thirteen's nifty SpinControl T25 adjuster (as well as the upgraded seals that allow them to turn with less friction than the original versions) and replaceable 'IFD' impact absorbing polycarbonate wear plates on both sides of the pedal body. Traction can be tuned by using the optional 1, 4, and 7mm replacement pins.

www.bythehive.com/e-thirteen
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143 Comments

  • + 47
 Battery powered compression damping, really????
  • + 18
 That makes sense. Right now it just knows its not level...and adjusts between open, not wide open, a little bit open. In context with the crappy xc forks they churn out - wont make a difference. Might be interesting in a DVO, Boxxer, MRP if they set it up to take g-force and angle and shut the valve at the beginning of a corner - that might make you float over the brakebumps and exposed rock. Would be great if it could talk to the rear damper and set it to wide open at the same moment since the front knows what is going on.
  • + 8
 I remember having Noleen Smart forks, they didn't work either.
  • + 3
 Wakaba, I never quite know if I should take you seriously or not, but have you heard if rockshoxs Ei system?
  • + 18
 Wakaba, you do not know what you are talking about. Magura makes much better XC forks than, say, Fox.
  • + 4
 The RS only logs the impact on the front wheel, does not change the damper valving on the fork. Half the rent only. And its ugly and overshooting as sin.

Usually I am serious with my pitch except when I am not ;-)
  • - 8
 I dont care about XC forks, they can be as bad as they want them to be.
  • + 80
 "Sorry guys I can't go for a ride. I forgot to plug in my fork last night."
  • + 5
 Electric damping that changes itself depending on what angle your at ?? what if you hit a big jump pull up the bars a little in the air like a bar hump or whatever, its going to change the compression to high to make the fork rigid cus its thinks your climbing then what if you land on your back wheel and then the front, with high compression its like being locked out and when you slam the front of your bike down your surely going to f*ck something in the process :/ ??
  • + 4
 The Noleen Smart Shock technology used sensors to detect the impact speeds to adjust the compression damping to firm it up for low-speed stuff and open it for the high-speed hits and it too reverted to a wide-open setting if the battery died. As I recall battery life was something like 25 hours but they had problems more with sealing out moisture from the electronics. This was happening in 1998, and they offered it for their frames, linkage forks and a telescopic model fork also that was one of the first single-crown forks on the market with 32mm stanchions.
  • + 2
 @elanto: The system does not block compression: It has fullopen, medium, small. So it is alway open but sometimes a bit slower in compression. It is not locking your fork up only giving you firmer steering and more grip over a small band. If you go beyond the design parameters - you are on your own.

Is it making you faster? I doubt it - dh-bikes have some of the best developped suspension systems on this planet and our trained reflexes and brains are immensly capable and have a built in lookahead feature...

So no, e-damping will lead to gouging and then to cheapened suspension but definitely not to better bikes: Like leatherette, aka vinyl, is now an expensive upgrade over your cloth-seats in a new car where previously you could get real leather.
  • + 2
 the article made it pretty clear that this tech is meant for XC and short travel trail forks...not much jumping involved in either of those.
  • + 1
 It would be a bummer if you forget to charge your fork. Or if you lost power like we did here, due to a disaster. Granted, we don't really have trails to ride right now, but still, don't forget to charge your fork!
  • + 2
 @gene

stay safe buddy!
  • + 1
 Hold on while o go charge my bike up dont see it catching on personally
  • + 5
 If you forget to charge it, all that it does is not lock-out. The cartridge just sets the low-speed compression damping. It doesn't affect any other part of the fork. Since its an drop in cartridge, you can just put the regular manual cartridge in if you forgot to charge it before a ride.
  • + 1
 deeee

you do have a point.. but id still rather much have a fork that doesnt rely on being charged. not saying forks on the market cant be improved today, but when i say 'improved', i mean mechanically.. not putting electronics on it.

i just cant wait to start building my trail bike after the dh is done and get a fork with all sorts of shiny knobs (high and low comp) that you can turn and tune, yourself!
  • + 1
 Yea it would be annoying if you forgot to charge your fork and have to switch dampers before a ride. Too much effort (unless you like working on suspension) but honestly, I would hate to do that. So I don't think I would ever use the battery powered compression damper. But it is kind of cool how it can range your suspension and read what the trail is ahead
  • + 3
 imagine your friend calling you and he says:

'sorry guys, i didnt charge my damper last night, so i have to change it out for my other one before i head out on my ride'

i wouldnt even know what to say to that, probably just hang up.. lol
  • + 2
 To all the people saying that you might forget to charge it, Magura quotes a 40 hour battery life. That's 10 hours more than the interval between getting your fox fork serviced for crying out loud. so if you can keep up with running a fox and staying in warranty, then you should have no issues with plugging your fork in once a month lol
  • + 2
 If you read the article properly you would know that you can still go riding as when the battery dies it goes to open mode which means you can ride also you could lockout the fork manually with the remote if you want loving this innovation
  • - 1
 40 hours riding is not too bad... or is it. I could guess most of the circuitry inside, 40hrs suggests a pretty high active current and not necessarily the most efficient design. 40 hours, will be with a new battery, just after a charge and no loss in battery capacity due to supply chain.
  • + 1
 Its a longer than you can run most any smartphone with a GPS app.
  • + 1
 They should have designed it so the part which needs to be charged pops out without any risk of soilage or oil exposure so it can be carried to an outlet.
  • + 2
 betsie? how can you draw any conclusions about the efficiency, without knowing anything about the size, type or capacity of the battery used?
  • + 1
 Or just take an off-the-shelf battery. Put a thread on o-ring sealed top cap that threads off to reveal where to drop in a 18650 li-ion cell. Ship it with one battery and a charger, and then users can just buy spare cells.
  • + 2
 It is not a smart phone, nor gps.
A smart phone screen backlight can draw 30mA or more. So 1hour battery life for just the backlight.
Although the processor will be much more powerful in a smart phone, the killer is the phone reception tech block, this is drawing current all the time also (15mA peak for BTLE), different peripherals draw different currents.
An STM8 (8 bit micro) in sleep mode between accelerometer checks could draw as little as 25nA (unlikely though). An MSP430 (16 bit micro) 1-3uA depending on sleep mode.
You have to compare apples with apples when it comes to electronics, especially low power electronics. There are many ways to keep the power down, and therefore battery life.
  • + 4
 ^^ Scottish with intelligence ??

whats happening here ??
  • + 2
 Deeeight, you get CR2032 li-pols also, but for the volumes we make they are too expensive.
I would not design with a li-ion cell for a rechargeable device. Li-pol is currently the fav.
Hopefully some of the new technologies will come into mass production at a price point that facilitates mass manufacture on competitive consumer products in the next 2 years.

Mega-turtle. I am a senior development engineer, and have developed low power electronic for over 15 years. If someone tells you the main functionality then it is not too hard to guess what is in there. With the products I currently work on, we have access to things that all bike manufacturers development engineers could only dream of. Electronics are not rocket science. Unless you work for the likes of CERN or one of the large manufacturers you only have access to a small number of products available from the large electronics IC manufacturers. Once you work for a large volume manufacturer other things become available Smile
  • + 2
 Batteries are the bane of my existence.
  • + 1
 just add water it makes a nice soup
  • + 1
 It sounds complicated, but if it's made in Germany, I'll probably trust it. Not that I'm looking for a new fork at the moment, but if I should choose one, it would be either the Magura TS8 150 or the new upside-down X-Fusion.
  • + 1
 or, capture some of the energy generated by the fork itself to constantly recharge the battery.
  • + 1
 @esstinkay, I was confused because Piezoelectric based components rely upon a crystal form that can be moved (generally crushed but apparently there are other ways) to produce and electric current. This would seem to indicate that it uses some sort of recapture technology... I wonder why it still needs charging... very odd.
  • + 1
 Piezoelectric means electricity resulting from pressure. No crushing is involved, just pressure. There is a component in there which measures pressure electrically (or some other mechanical stress).
  • + 1
 Ah o.k, that would make some more sense, so they are using it as a sensor. Seems a little obvious now......
  • + 1
 Many piezo parts contain pzt.... now banned for new designs where possible by large multinationals.
  • - 1
 GIMMICKY! GIMMICKY! GIMMICKY! GIMMICKY! GIMMICKY! GIMMICKY! GIMMICKY! GIMMICKY! GIMMICKY!
[Reply]
  • + 13
 Damn my bike won't fit into my study so I can't charge the fork.
  • - 1
 Terrible fork idea, charging dhould bot be involved with biking at all
[Reply]
  • + 3
 Iv a Ts8 r fix fork 150 mm plush, stiff and light! Often overlooked I think! Good innovate idea's coming out by them with the grease lube, DAD arch and now this electronic adjustment. Backward compatibility as well! Don't see Fox doing this but hey at least they've got gold stantions and pretty decals
  • - 6
 pretty sure fox has the lightest fork on the market with outstanding performance.... i suppose thats nothing though
  • + 2
 Yer fox also made their forks eats themselves over time, the amount of fox forks i see that have stanchion wear from the shitty bushings is unbelievable
  • + 8
 Unfortunetly no, Fox does not have that. Magura forks are definitely way ahead of them weight wise and they're much stiffer also, tests I've seen put the regular open dropout Magura forks as being equal to many competitors thru-axle lower models.
  • + 1
 Yeah, Fox is rad.... I love having a fork that creaks so much I feel like my bike is going to snap in half when I'm going down a trail.... Going to be trying something different next season.
  • + 7
 Also an often not mentioned/realized fact is that all their dual-arch 26er models are actually 650B compatible (in fact the 2013 650B labeled one is actually the 26er... same price...just different labels). All their 26" forks, XC superlights included have tire clearance for 26 x 2.6 tires and 210mm brake rotor ratings.
  • + 2
 magura's fork sounds like its over engineered. gotta love german tech!
  • + 1
 Maybe now, but a couple years old Durin SL I have does not look like it will fit 650b (I have considered converting that hardtail, but decided not to bother.) Nice simple fork. So is Marathon, and old Laurin.. Too bad they do not do Wotan any more. That was a smooth tank. Magura forks are also stupid easy to service. And USA office is very helpful, even out of warranty. Such a contrast with Fox. Only wish they sold cheap maintenance kits like RS does directly online.
  • + 1
 Have you tried fitting one?
  • + 1
 No, I measured clearance with 26x2.25 Racing Ralph (2012) I have on it. Also measured clearance at crown at full compression. I will not risk it with a high volume tire, and do not really want a narrow one.
  • + 1
 Try a Kenda Slant Six 2.1, they have the height of a QuasiMoto 2.0 but are over 55mm width at the tread edges.

forums.mtbr.com/650b-27-5/my-list-650b-compatible-26ers-376656-46.html#post10573671
  • + 1
 Thanks. I will consider that (though not a huge fan of Kenda tires). It is a nice hardtail, I think upping the wheel size just a tiny bit will make it even better.
[Reply]
  • + 3
 maxxis shorty.... recommended for north shore in the rainy season? I was thinking of grabbing either magic or muddy marys for my am and dh bikes as the minions were fine in the rain but the hans dampfs leave alot to be desired in anything loose imo, haven't had alot of time on them in the mud yet
  • + 4
 Pretty much the perfect tire for the north shore!!
  • + 1
 Muddy Mary is amazing in the winter on the shore, but it's a drag to pedal. Very slow tire for an AM bike. Amazing on the descents though! This new Maxxis looks similar. I wonder if it will be available in 3C Maxterra TR flavours?
  • + 1
 Have you guys not seen the new super gravity range from Schwalbe? The super gravity hans dampf has been seen on the DH world cup circuit so i'm sure it offers enough stiffness and puncture protection for the best of us. No flats on them yet for me..
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Why not connect the battery of the changing damper of the magura fork to the movement of the fork itself to generate the power, so that it would be the use of the fork itself to power the battery, in the same way they produce energy from baloons going up and down on the waves in the sea? Smile
  • + 2
 There are battery charging systems now that can be powered by spinning wheels to recharge small devices like mp3 players and smart phones. You bolt them on and add a magnet to the wheel (like a computer sensor uses).
  • + 1
 Or the way that those kinetic flashlights charge. regardless, kinda disappointed with "you have to plug it in."
  • + 2
 They probably didn't want to deal with having to find a way to secure a plug to keep out moisture and also be replaceable in case you snagged it in a crash. There are ways it can be done, but nothing that justifies the extra expense and complications. Worrying about it is pointless though, most people remember to recharge their lights every time they use them (those that recharge) and this damper lasts thru several days of continuous riding. I only wonder if it has a "sleep" mode it rests it to conserve power when the bike is just parked in the garage.
  • + 1
 @ thelongman, i also like the idea of self charging via harnessing the kenetic energy of the forks motion but that would likely result in a loss of plushness as what ever mechanism that would harness that motion energy would create some drag right?
  • + 1
 The method I was talking about shouldn't: you just have a magnet that rides in a tube, passing a coil as it gets bounced up and down. Kinetic flashlights are the ones that you shake.
  • + 1
 attach an old-school dynamo to the wheel and you're good to go Smile
[Reply]
  • + 2
 cameras, tv remotes, clocks, phones, laptops, EVERYTHING with a battery in it will eventually die and leave you feeling rather stupid at some point or other so forgive me if i don't add my bike to this list Smile f### putting my bike on charge, are the current crop of suspension really this under performing???? and this isn't even my biggest issue with electric suspension,

if the computer is changing the compression dampers all the time the way the fork reacts and therefore the bike reacts is constantly changing, when i'm trying to hold my tires on the limit id rather have a bike i can predict than one that can corner 0.001% faster
  • + 1
 yeah I was against cell phones too when they first came out. a lot of people were. now they are everywhere, cheap, and reliable. technology has trickled down to where a $20 phone you buy at a liquor store works fine for what it is meant to do. if your phone dies because you forgot to plug it in, you can't blame the phone for that.

I see electronics in mtb and other sports being the same way, we are just a long time away from when it will be more widely used. but in maybe 20 years we will wonder how we did without them, and maybe a few old grouchy guys will still be riding old school components and everyone will point and laugh at them.
  • + 1
 I have to agree with alazamanza. Its an weird development.
Cell phones are whole different story. There is no mechanical solution to calling someone in case of an emergency but there is mechanical solutions for working shocks and forks so why bother with something that constantly needs your attention and therefore is actually more inconvenient for the user?

I didn't get the electronic gear shifter on the road bikes last year either.
I want to be able to hop on a bike and ride any time i feel like and not having to charge it before i can ride.

To me that simplicity is part of the beauty of riding a bike.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 please keep this electronics away from FR and downhill suspention. batteries inside=low reliability. no knowledge of manulal suspention tuning-no ride. leave these electric plugs for cross country and all-mountain, at least, the fail of electonics won't lead to any injuries there, unlike in FR or DH
[Reply]
  • + 2
 are there ever going to be high tpi dh tires? I'm curious as to whether it would change anything as 60tpi isn't exactly supple compared to 320tpi from my cyclocross experience, whether this applies to dh or not is my question
  • + 9
 I'm not sure it would matter once you take into account how stiff a dual-ply casing is... they want that rigidity.
  • + 3
 makes sense, thanks for the input! could maybe take place in trail if single ply is common there but I guess it will just be cx and xc with the dugast obsession
  • + 5
 I wonder if (when?) they ever come with a tire as rigid and snake-bite resistant as the 2ply, but without all that extra weight. That would be sweet, and will actually make a difference to me. Not like yet another wheel size for example Wink
  • + 1
 Schwalbe is trying real hard, and hypotheticaly stiffness to wieght could be achieved but you will never achieve snake-bite resistance as it relies mostly on thickness of the sidewall. The thicker it is the more the pinching force gets distributed on the wider area of the tube. I'd say if somehow it was possible to make tubeless tyres and rims hook better with each other then it would be solved.Though I can't imagine a tubeless setup handling G-outs on Hafjell burms without burping.
  • + 2
 Yeah, the thickness is needed to protect the tube. But maybe in the future there will be a different way (other than adding more of a heavy rubber on the sidewalls) that will work just as well (different material perhaps?).
But I'm not an engineer or a chemist so I can only wish that those smarter than me will come up with some cool new technology Wink
  • + 1
 you know, prices of those tyres these days are already "too damn high"!
  • + 1
 Have you guys not seen the new super gravity range from Schwalbe? The super gravity hans dampf has been seen on the DH world cup circuit so i'm sure it offers enough stiffness and puncture protection for the best of us. No flats on them yet for me.. They have exactly that, a different material added in the sidewall of a single ply tyre. Also the weight savig is close to half a kg when compared to a pair of dual ply.
  • + 2
 The Continental Dh tires are high tpi
  • + 2
 There is a place for both high TPI and low TPI. The more threads you add, the less rubber you get inside the tire. High TPI makes for a nice, lightweight, supple tire, good for xc and cx. But with less rubber, more fabric, this also makes for quite fragile tires that will be prone to sidewall tears and punctures. DH tires are low fabric, high rubber for durability reasons. Adds a bit of weight, but very resistant to anything you throw at it.
  • - 1
 After riding Schwalbe NNics Evo and Conti MKII Pro I must say that Specialized Control series provide me with best ratio of stability to low weight. Their casings are great. As to gravity stuff as long as I am not hammering berms at high speeds, Maxxis Minions EXO set up as tubeless are hard to beat. They weigh the same as HDampfs abut provide way more grip due to larger knobbs. Hans Dampf is a desert tyre, not bad middle section but side knobbs are rubbish.
  • + 1
 I really wanted to like the Hans Dampf Super Gravity's on my TR250 as they shed so much weight as opposed to 2ply Minions. Been running the HD for about a month, without any flats which is great (25psi front, 27psi back). They feel like they roll faster than Minion's which I attribute to the weight savings as opposed to the tread pattern. However, they are straight up scary when leaned over in the turns. I've been down more times in the last month than I have in the last 3 years on Minions. I am putting Minion DHF 3C's back on when they arrive at my house in 2 days, and I can't wait. Failed experiment for me. Maybe when Schwalbe comes out with a different tread pattern in Super Gravity casing, I will try again. The Magic Mary looks promising. The weight difference and suppleness of the HD's was noticeable, but cornering grip is the most important aspect of a tire for me. HD's are going on the All-Mountain bike now.
  • + 2
 Larry, you've tried EXO Minions?
  • - 1
 Hans Dampf sucks in corners, I find them nowhere more grippy than NNics. it might be good for those Sedona industry-journo testing orgies where the surface is loose as hell anyways, but keep them away from temperate climate zones of the planet. Minions EXO are great! If you want to drop some rolling resistance, put Ardent in the rear. DHF+Ardent set up as tubeless are ozom!
  • + 3
 I have not tried EXO Minion's on my downhill bike because I run tubes. Many of my friends have tried them with tubes for DH, and they get pinch flats. I hate riding with a pack, so I prefer to run tires that rarely flat. I'm hoping to get a tubeless setup for next season at which point I'll definitely try EXO Minions. I like how the Schwalbe Super Gravity casing still has a stiff sidewall which resists pinch flats, as opposed to the EXO casing which just has tear resistance. I've been riding mountain bikes for 25 years and have never torn a hole in the sidewall of a tire.
  • - 1
 No no, I recommend 1ply exos only in tubeless setup, and only on max 7" bikes. For proper DH or inner tube in bigger mountains you should always go 2ply.
  • + 2
 stranix - I think Continental tpi includes all belts (usually 3), so their 180tpi is the same as other brands' 60tpi.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I love the Fat Alberts in the front over the H Dampfs......great rollin tire and wide lugs, superb grip. Tire is great in loose dirt or loose over hardpack and in simi damp conditions, haven't tried them in mud so can't say if they work or not, but they do clean up well, if your looking for an alternative to the Hans Dampf but want better grip on lean angles this tire has saved me many times in those "Oh Shit" moments
[Reply]
  • + 3
 proper innovation from magura folks. backwards compatibilty and you can still buy forks without the expensive electronics. all others should imitate magura.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 85 bucks a bike tire!!
such a nice profit margins on bike industry
with that you buy almost 2 good (city) car tyres.
made two withstand a ton and 100 mph plus
  • + 0
 OK, then go buy 2 good (city) car tyres.
  • + 2
 85 bucks for tires that you could wear out in a weekend of racing... but hey they look like they work well and they're maxxis so not worth bitching about prices because there are far worse prices in the bike industry
  • + 5
 yeah schwalbe for example..
  • + 3
 not saying these arent god
i´m a maxxis fan
allways on ardents, Hr and minion maxxpro or 42a on my bike ( but normaly pay 25 to 30 eu.)
but if you think this price is nice good for you.
  • + 1
 I didn't say the price is good. I'm just tired of people saying what irrelevant stuff they can buy with the money a product costs.
  • + 2
 irrelevant !! why
it’s to share different opinions that the tread is open to everyone
  • + 1
 indeed.. the same thing goes, that a MX bike is the same price as a dh bike.. that baffled me a bit.. esp since a motor bike has more parts..
  • + 2
 yea
now imagin just the cost of develop a hi end engine on 12000 plus rpm, fuel injection etc etc
compared to a mold for a bike frame!
crazy Smile
  • + 5
 You pay all that money for the maxxis writing but you only get it on one side of the tyre lol
  • + 1
 Hell these Maxxis tires aren't as bad for wear as what the top racers were using 20 years ago. The White Onza Porcupines which stuck like glue to trails, lasted MAYBE 3 runs down a DH course before they became useless.
  • + 1
 lol the other side its for you to paint @elanto
  • + 1
 I'm not sure what the cost of hi end engine winds up being. but carbon molds often run $50,000. Even if your molds are only 10-15,000 thats per. So if you have to make changes to a carbon model imagine how rampent the costs can get. The difference is that engine manufacturing techniques can frequently continue between iterations where as carbon molds cannot. Hence the aluminum (aluminium) protos and first gen models.

and a pair of car tires for 85 sound scary, you refering to 85 euro? that sounds more realistic.
  • + 1
 dont question that carbon mould costs
but meh!
just tink on a bike you need a mold for engine parts,for some frame parts, plus all other parts piston , crankase a buch of moving parts, electronics. clutch , injectors injection pump oil pump, a crankshaft that needs to be aligned/calibrated to microns and on and on.
frame parts on mbike are designed to have diferent zones, one being more flexy than others , so you have extruded parts and molded parts.
so for all of this hi dont think there is even a starting point to discuss the diferences in prices.
plus motorbikes are designed and assembled on japan europe and some usa not china cheap labor..

and yes 85 euro you could buy 2 good tires, but just for a city car

sorry my english but im too lazy tu use translator
  • + 0
 carbon bikes aren't mass produced, they take months of work unlike a car which can be made in hours if they so choose to

www.history.com/this-day-in-history/fords-assembly-line-starts-rolling
  • + 2
 just imagine the zilions invested on that machinery and the cost of 500 persons on assembly line.

this discus could last forever

i´m just like annybody else here, love bikes and buying parts but seems like we buy timex with the cost of a casio for the price of rolex
  • + 1
 that money is made back super fast tho with advertising /the selling of the car at 30k which cost like 4k to make, their profits are high so they are on a good margin of profit

with bikes its like a 1 time thing over a few weeks to create with workers doing 9-5, they have to make good money so they can the workers
  • + 1
 no we are eco taxed the shit out of here.. and everything (almost) is made in china.. cheap labour,. and no eco taxes BS !
we are being fooled big time.. every big industry is leaving europe.. due to this crap.. leaving thousands un employed..
and we are left with no other option tha n to buy overpriced products..
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  • + 3
 Would I be right in assuming the Shorty is the replacement for the Swamp Thing??
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  • + 2
 Holy hell, DH tires are getting so skinny! Looks like a roadbike tire with some knobs.
  • + 1
 i know =( partially the reason why i dont see myself buying maxxis anytime sooon. their 2.7s arent really 2.7s, so a 2.4 maxxis surely isnt going to satisfy my needs! although schwalbes 2.5 is more like a 2.7.. care to guess what i bought? Wink
  • + 2
 The 2.7s use their old sizing, the new sizes (2.25/2.4) run truer to size.
  • + 1
 so are they not making any more 2.7? i really like my schwalbes, theyre 2.5, but i was told schwalbes 2.5s are more like 2.7..
  • + 2
 So the reason why their sizing was off is they were using a different metric/SAE conversion. the new sizing uses a closer ratio. Since they print metric sizing on their casings, you can see the difference. Don't have it it front of me, but I believe the 2.4" are actually 2mm wider than the old 2.5s, and only 2mm narrower than the old 2.7s. If you really want to know how close they are, try to find the metric size of the Shwalbes. Some brands make it easier than others to find out, no idea for Shwalbe. I'll post again when I get home with the metric sizing off an old 2.5 vs a new 2.4. They still make both types, they just introduce all the new stuff in the new sizing.
  • + 1
 interesting.. all i knew was that schwalbes tires ran a little bigger than advertised, while maxxis ran a little smaller. although it appears this is no longer the case.
  • + 1
 It's always been hard to compare sizes, because EVERYONE uses a different metric/SAE conversion, so nobody's sizes are exactly comparable, unless they print metric sizing as well.
  • + 1
 Also you can see variations WITHIN a brand just for different models. Schwalbe Racing Ralphs first inflate narrow then the casings stretch over an hour or two to hit the claimed widths. Rocket Rons do the same but even after days are usually LESS width than claimed. Hans Damf's are apparently coming out bigger than claimed.
  • + 1
 So as promised, metric width off casing (that I can find lying around right now) 2.35=52mm vs 2.25=55/58mm 2.4=58/60mm. I don't seem to have any 2.5 tires around, but if memory serves, they're 54mm. happened to find an old kenda blue groove that's marked at 2.35=58mm. so you can see some of the problem. See if you can find the metric for a 2.7, but i doubt that it's much bigger than 60mm. Though I do have to say from experience: if you want something bigger than 60mm you're better off going with a wider rim, ~100g heavier rim is better than a 200~250g heavier tire. better performance as well.
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  • + 1
 I for one would never entrust any part of my life to a complex and fragile lump of electronics, let alone my bike. Sent from my iPhone.
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  • + 1
 Is the fork charged and ready to go when you buy it?. Or do I have wait and charge my fork first. Oh wait im going to be late for the ride. I forgot to charge my fork!
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  • + 1
 I can't go for a ride because E-13 doesn't even make parts for their original pedal. Broke the bushing for the spin control and back ordered until 2014.
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  • + 1
 So when I go up a ramp to take flight on a DH trail, my fork is going to lock itself out? This has bad news written all over it.
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  • + 2
 that shorty tire looks pretty damn perfect for anything other than hard pack. yes please
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  • + 1
 I cant tell the difference in my fork no matter what rebound setting I use so doubt the elect would be worth the expense for me.
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  • + 0
 Why would anyone want to lower the low speed compression damping for a descent and raise it for a climb?

Forks which dive on descents and are overdammoe on climbs
  • + 2
 When you descend you hit stuff so need low compression so the fork moves when you climb you want the fork to be rigid so you get no pedal bob so all your power goes directly into the movent of the wheels
  • + 1
 Hmmm. When I descend, more of my weight is over the front so I need more low speed compression to try to keep the front end higher. When I climb, less of my weight is over the front so my effective sag is less, and the fork struggles to absorb small impacts. Adding more LSC makes it worse. But hey. What do I know.
  • + 2
 It is funny actually how the industry works in that fashion. Everyone is trying to regain the feel of their hard tail from 10 years ago, but don't want a sore ass. Firm for up, soft for down. I myself will also turn the fork to 'descend' mode for tricky, rocky, tight, steep climbing. Allows me to shift my weight around more, and the bike stays planted. However, I'll find myself turning the fork to 'trail' mode for descending. The fork doesn't dive, and it allows me to push the bike harder through the rough and corners.
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  • + 1
 "Hey man you wanna go riding today"? "sorry I can't my forks charging"....... What has shit come to?
  • + 1
 Who the f*ck wants batteries on a MTB?
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  • + 2
 Less tyre but more money!
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  • + 2
 Is the e13 ring 10 speed compatible?
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  • + 1
 E*13 - Would you stock CRC with those guides finaly, I want to buy one, how long can one wait?!
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  • + 1
 any beta on when the e13 narrow/wide ring will be available?
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  • + 1
 Dying to see what Shimano had! Please PB show me!!!!
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  • + 1
 Once, when I was young, bikes were mechanical. Ahh the good old days.
  • + 1
 i wonder if bike shops are going to start hiring electricians and electrical engineers...?
  • + 1
 and you stuck your finger in a hole and turned it around in a circle to dial a phone and you drank kerosene to cure ailments and women couldn't vote. ahh memories.
  • + 1
 i just miss the speakeasy's =(
  • + 1
 Man those times were crazy, but we all knew the nineties wouldn't last forever. Honestly the electro gadgets aren't a big deal. A clinometer adjusting my lowspeed compression seems kind of nifty. The only real complaint i have is that i hate replacing batteries and i am a set and forget guy. I can deal with some pedal bob if it means my shock needs rebuilds less often.
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  • + 1
 Maxxis.....2.6 please!!!
  • + 1
 want a 2.6 sized tire??? the dirty dan/ magic mary should be very similar even if they are marked as 2.35s!!

bloody good tires as well although i do think this new tire from maxxis will be big in the uk where we ride in mud 3/4 of the time!!
  • + 1
 2.7, atleast! their stuff runs smaller =(
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