Pinion 18 speed Gearbox - Eurobike 2011

Aug 30, 2011 at 5:48
Aug 30, 2011
by Mike Levy  
 
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Pinion gearbox on Nicolai
Pinion's P1.18 gearbox attached to the bottom of a Nicolai Helius AM. It offers 18 sequential gears and a 600% range that can be adjusted to suit the terrain by swapping out the drive sprockets.

Pinion P1.18 details:

• 18 gears without an overlapping gear range
• Sequential shifting
• 600% gear range
• Capable of shifting under load or while coasting
• Uses a twist shifter
• Total weight: 2.6kg (including shifter, front and rear sprockets)
• MSRP: Helius AM frame w/ Pinion P1.18 gearbox - $3399 EUR


Pinion gearbox on Nicolai
The Pinion is bolted to this purpose made Nicolai frame, but expect it to show up on a number of other manufacturer's bikes as well.

Smaller package, 18 gears: Nicolai was showing off one of their Helius AM all-mountain bikes that has been manufactured to accept a Pinion P1.18 gearbox. While the Pinion has been around in prototype form for more than a season now, it appears to be nearing production and looks quite promising. The fact that Nicolai, who have long championed their various G-Boxx gearbox designs for many years, are now looking to have their bikes fitted with the P1.18 speaks volumes about their confidence in the design. Not only is the P1.18 lighter than the G-Boxx, it is also much smaller.

It offers 18 sequential gears that don't overlap and a 600% gear range that can be fined tuned by changing out the drive sprockets on either the front or rear. Shifting through the gears is done with a twist shifter and much like other gearbox designs on the market, it uses a dual cable arrangement. The gearbox will only accept Pinion's own crank arms.

Pinion P1.18 gearbox. Photo by Jens Staudt. www.mtb-news.de
Pinion P1.18 gearbox. Photo by Jens Staudt. www.mtb-news.de
The gearbox's cogs are housed within a sealed aluminum housing and fully protected from the elements, making for a reliable and and nearly maintenance free system. Photos courtesy of www.mtb-news.de

Pinion gearbox on Nicolai
The P1.18 is quite a bit smaller than other gearbox designs on the market and will also be less expensive. The 160mm travel Helius AM shown above weighs in at a respectable 15.3kg, complete with the Pinion gearbox.

Less expensive gearbox: Gearbox bikes are known to be quite expensive, but the P1.18 looks to be more affordable than what has been available in the past. For example, the standard Nicolai Helius AM frame retails for $1899 EUR, but required a whopping $4700 EUR if you wanted it with the G-Boxx. Equipped with the Pinion P1.18 it will retail for $3399 EUR, a full $1300 cheaper. While still not inexpensive by any means, the price is coming down.

http://www.pinion.eu/


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159 Comments

  • + 119
 "Uses a twist shifter" Bloody hell........ why not make one with a trigger shifter!? So much better.
  • + 75
 Exactly, using twist shifters in wet and muddy conditions is like trying to get jam out of a jar whilst wearing boxing gloves and using a cocktail stick.. it aint gonna happen.
  • + 21
 The difficulty with a trigger shifter for this gearbox is it contains 18 gears, which makes a gripshift much easier to engineer and build. Hopefully they have something in the works, though it will take some mental prowess to come up with something that not only works, but isn’t the size of a hockey puck.
  • + 13
 It's also quite a bit easier to go through a wide range of gears with a twist grip than a trigger. One crank of your wrist can give you the whole gear range, versus clicking for days looking for the right gear with a trigger.
  • + 27
 They're using twist shifters, because gearboxes don't have return spring. That's why they use double cable and twisters - you need to apply some force to shift either up or down. If it was a trigger shifter then it would have two big triggers - I can't see it work.. Also as atrokz wrote it would be the size of a hockey puck Smile Twister shifters are more suitable here..
  • + 15
 Completely agree proxx. It'd be interesting if they used a left and right trigger... each with simply the large thumb. This would give you the ability to pull two cables and potentially keep it on the lighter/less bulky side. For now though, twist shift seems like the cheapest way to get it to the consumer. Once people get hooked, they release the trigger shift for another 500 bucks!
  • + 30
 Seems like the perfect application for an electronic shifter to me. A servo should be able to provide enough force and could be integrated right into the aluminum shell for protection. Would take the place of what's sure to be some sort of shifting linkage. Hell, you could even set it up so a fake "front derailleur" on the left shifts you up/down 3+ gears at a time with a single push. Completely configurable, of course.

And hey, it's not like cost is a big concern if you can afford the thing!
  • + 2
 I'm with collin, shimano airlines style shifting is something i've always wanted!
  • + 2
 Electric means a battery which is even more weight. As for that simple twist to hit the full range of gears that's the problem. I don't want to hit the range of gears when I land a drop. Still, it seems like he best box I've seen. I don't see a lot there incouldn't reproduce more cheaply in a basic machine shop though. I expect to see some cheap ripoff's before long. Of course they will only be available in Europe. US patent law will keep the original the only one on he market here and Canada won't has enough demand.
  • + 5
 The idea of a left/right shifter combo was toyed with, and personaly I think this is the way to go.
  • + 1
 If this gearbox catches on, and they indeed cannot get trigger shifters to work, maybe we will see some really cool and ingenius/trick twist shifters that work great in all conditions. I can already think of a few ways to make one that provides grip/place to apply force, even in mud.
  • + 1
 Well I would like to see a better gripshift design if anything, something with a good bite to it, that wont chew through gloves. Perhaps something integrated into a CNC'ed barend?
  • + 2
 @HOJJ, you made my day!
  • + 3
 Not to quote The Inbetweeners or anything but "I try.. no I really do try" Smile
  • + 1
 Its because the cable isn't on a spring like a derailleur so it needs to be pulled on shifting up and down.
  • + 2
 They could make a thumb shifter that you push with your left thumb for going down gears and a thumb shifter that you push with your right thumb for going up gears...?
  • + 1
 would something like shimanos sti set up work? like dip the lever to tug the wire one way and the thumb piece to move the other wire or move it the otherway, just ratchet it them different directions and have them both sprung to pull them back into the standard position after a gear change
  • + 1
 Yeah but thats different from what people are used to. Who knows, though, they might develop something.
  • + 8
 Hello,

In the pinion preview on www.mtb-news.de is the reason why they are using a twist shifter instead of a trigger shifter explained.

“The reason why they are using a twist shifter is because of the needed movement radius of the cam shafts which are changing the gears in the gearbox. Altogether the cam shafts turn through 1020° between the smallest and the highest gear, for which reason the Bowden cable in spite of a gear ratio has to be pulled widely. This prevents the application of a real trigger shifter.”

P.S.: Sorry for my poor English-Translation
  • + 2
 It'd be cool if they could do something like this but somehow build it into a universal crankset/bb design like the hammerschmidt so that buyers can apply it to any bike. Great idea though, i like the innovation, and i'm sure this marks just the start of many great gearbox designs to come.
  • + 2
 taletotell, Shimano currently produces the Di2 electronic drive train. They are releasing the Ultegra version soon (or already have) and it doesn't weigh down the bike. on the contrary... everyone seems to be in love with it!
  • + 1
 Collin, cool. I guess it can be done. I'm just skeptical of electronics. the one I'm using to type this dies all the time. . .
  • + 0
 or an electronic button shift like on some racing bikes the gearbox is modern but the twist shift lets it down i think an electronic shift wouls suit it alot better
  • + 0
 @HOJJJ That was the most random comparison ever, and also the funnyest ahaha Big Grin
[Reply]
  • + 22
 I want one of these with a triple chainset, a 10 speed rear cassette linked to a rolhoff 14 speed hub gear. You can never have enough gears, not even 7560 of them
  • + 4
 you sir, are a comedian Big Grin
  • + 3
 HA HA! That would be sweeeet. And have four twist shifters, one on each end of each grip. Or better yet, have those new fandangled mind shifter sets. An EEG machine in the helmet that reads your thoughts and changes your gears accordingly.
  • + 1
 ...And now the price has rocketed up to $10000!
  • + 7
 Thats only $1.32 per ratio, better than sram XX's approximate $150 per ratio...
  • + 1
 you guys are awesome Big Grin
[Reply]
  • + 15
 I'd like to see one with max. 10 gears or so, so that it would be lighter and even more compact, while still having enough gears for people who mostly ride their bikes downhill.. How ace would that be...
  • + 4
 or even less, there is no way in hell this is going to fly in the xc world, they have to target freeride and dh, in dh you need 6 gears or so, many manf are coming out with smaller cassettes for example. the huge problem with this though is the custom designed frame, people are really particular about their frames it seems and that is going to hold this back from ever being mass market.
  • + 3
 In reality for DH the most I find you need is 6 gears , like 4th to 10th sort of range and that could lose a ton of mass and weight , how often do you ride a DH track in 3rd gear at all? even at the start most people have strong enough legs to push 4th gear at high revs.
The gears/cogs look enormous to , not far off the size of a motor bikes for the puny 1/2 BHP output our legs kick out at best.
But i'm dead chuffed people are still trying to perfect it Smile give it a few years and they will have it sussed.
Gear boxs , in my opinion , are one of the only things left to add to mountain biking to make it perfect . (apart from maybe stuff being sold at real value and realistic prices )
  • + 3
 @bigburd - I am also stoked to see gearboxes getting closer to the mainstream. It's only a matter of time. Some people want to bag them over and over but the dérailleur had it's day in the 90's. It's the single biggest piece of sheet part that bicycles still utilise.

This isn't quite the answer but it appears to be another massive step forward!
  • + 3
 If action is needed in both directions for a shift, and a return spring would be too strong, why not hydraulic?
  • - 1
 just put 6 speed internal gearing in a hub and you'd have the biggest selling bike part since the wheel.

i'd be all over it if it had 1/3 the gears and 1/3 the weight, and came in a hub, not a boutique frame.
  • + 3
 Totally. 8 gears would do the trick. The key would be having different ratios for different purposes. Small range for DH, large range for XC and medium for FR.
  • + 3
 I'm glad there are other people who can see the benefits of gear box's , some people I chat to simply do not understand how revolutionary it will be.
Some Thing between a Rohloff hub and a Shimano Nexus hub in terms of range and pricing is what we need Smile
But there is so much cash to be made out of flimsy , weak and inadequate ( but pretty/bling ) Mechs chain devices etc it gonna be a long slog Smile
[Reply]
  • + 8
 Its still not as good as the Zerode G-1. The Gearbox on the Zerode only weighs 1kg including the shifter (trigger), sprockets and the rest of it. This thing is 2.6. Also being $4,600 AUD for this frame, where as the Zerode G-1 frame is $3000. I'll stick to the Zerode thanks...
  • + 2
 The Alfine hub on the Zerode is pretty gash though. As far as gear box's go this looks and sounds good. But no bike will match the Zerodes handling so as you said. I'll stick to the Zerode.
  • + 1
 18 gears here though, with the weight low and central, the zerode has that kilo pretty high up. Not hating on the zerode as its a fave of mine, but this is a great product.
  • + 1
 it isnt a gearbox though its a modified gearhub. that requires a jack shaft chain. to run. given that this is the first version of it i would like to think they can lose some weight over the next couple of generations of it.
[Reply]
  • + 9
 only Germans can make this kinda stuff!!! super sick
[Reply]
  • + 1
 This looks pretty awesome, but like many others here i think it has more than enough gears. I run 1x9 on my bike already and I could see maybe needing an extra gear at each end. As others have mentioned it is too bad that they didn't go for less gears and lighter weight. I also only have 7 speeds on my DH bike after removing the top 2 cogs of a 9 speed mountain cassette. I think this works better than a road cassette as there are less gears to get to the largest cog. I mean, how many clicks do you want to have to make when you mess up a corner and need to pedal out? 10 or 11 should be enough for a trail bike. We are not as picky as road bikers who want 1 tooth jumps on each shift.

However this is an awesome idea and a great start. I hope this kind of thing takes off and finally puts an end to the second weakest link on a bike (flat tires being #1)
  • + 1
 Tubeless has almost negated that entirely. Derailleur has always been the weak spot in my opinion. Flats are just part of the fact you're dealing with thin sealed rubber - the only means to actually grip anything (and this is the case with ANY wheeled sport Razz )

All other transmissions are internal/away from harm in relative terms to a bike derailleur.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Gearboxes are awesome. I am stoked for when all bikes have these badboys on them. No dropped chains, no derailleurs blowing up on rocks, no peddling to shift etc., etc. This is sweet. Let's see some pics of this thing running some trails. Also, does this bike still have a derailleur on it, or is that just a tensioner? (last pic)
[Reply]
  • + 1
 It looks very well made thing, which will be far more reliable than the system we use nowadays (no crashed derailleurs, no big chainrings in front, no breaking chain?), i totally accept it. But i can't really understand it, it is okey you can change the gear in this box in front but how you transfer this to the back wheel - i can't see chain, or any kinf of surfaces. It seems to me a bit of alien techs. Big Grin
  • + 1
 well they haven't actually shown any photos of the driveside, have they? Wink
  • + 2
 There are photos of the driveside already out, just not here Wink
  • + 1
 The manufacturer must be carefully controlling which pictures photographers can take because it's very odd that the drive side isn't shown. Why take two super-close ups of the non-drive side that basically show nothing? What's the deal Levy?
  • + 3
 Thanks. If you swap the word "large" for "medium" in the above link, you see a large version.
  • + 1
 NP. That site has a whole write up on it with more pictures. In German though.
  • + 1
 Thanks Atrokz.. I was wondering how they were going to drive the rear wheel! hmm.. looks interesting.. the sealed system will have some benefits. it may be heavy, but this stuff takes time. I can see it being a cool thing for frame designers since they may be able to relocate where the drive sprocket is.. thus giving more suspension design options than having a drive gear that's concentric with the bottom bracket..
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I wonder why nobody makes a smaller version of this kind of boxes with less gears (i.e. 4) for downhill/freeride use. How many gears do we actually need to go down on a mountain?
This is actually smaller than the previous version (about half the size I think) but it's still large for me and it still needs a chain tensioner
  • + 3
 Well... four would be a bit extreem. How about an 8 or 9speed? I think the issue they run into is the change in gear ratio between each gear. Planetary gears are strange things. Then again... this doesn't appear to use planetary gears. Now I'm lost... but I do agree. 18 is a bit much to cycle through, especially if you are rounding a corner and come up on a massive climb.
  • + 1
 I would love to see a 2 gear planetary system like the hammerschmidt except it replaces your rear hub, then you could have a 4 gear system, hammerschmidt up front and in the back. 2 gears isn't quite enough for xc/am but 4 would be enough I think.
  • + 1
 too bad hammershmidts wear out way quicker than you would like them to... so no thanks - bad reference Razz

And as for bikepark DHing, I some people (like me) would be better off with a singlespeed
  • + 1
 I got two bikes, both on 8" travel, one is singlespeed since 2009 ;-)
[Reply]
  • + 1
 It's cheaper; great. Does it really need to have 18 gears? I'm not so sure. I'll be happy with 6 covering a range from 20T/34T to 34T/11T. I don't mind big jumps in gears and I want less weight.

Also, integrate the chain tensioner to the gear box and eliminate the derailleur hanger! The derailleur hanger is the weakest link!

_MK
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I hope early Nicolai explains about the frame weight and the cranks weight.

15,3 kg Is the weight of the bike shown in mtb-bikes.de pics without pedals this in raw finish must be lighter.

This bike is a good step to light enduro gearbox bikes but... it's arround 1 kg heavier than no gearbox version :-(
[Reply]
  • + 3
 whats with $3999 EUR? just write €3999. As for the Gearbox itself, that looks amazing. Derailleur-less bikes are the future, and this is a big step forward.
  • + 2
 I'm afraid you're completely wrong Carlos!
[Reply]
  • + 4
 18 Gears in that tiny little box by the BB?! AWESOME. Looks like a sick bike too!! Can't wait for some reviews!
  • + 6
 i think it may have changed my mind about gearbox's, this looks mint
  • + 11
 looks awsome but... twist shift? really?
  • + 3
 twist shifter is a silly idea, true dat. but otherwise looks amazing!!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Great concept and looks like improved ground clearance to boot. Speaking of clearance; I wonder how many rocks you can slam into the bottom of that housing before it becomes a problem and/or trashed frame. I wish there were pictures of the business side of the drive because I don’t see how power is transferred to the rear wheel.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 when these become mainstream, all i want is a shaft drive so i don't have to mess with the worn drivetrain components ever again.
  • + 1
 and i forgot to add - shaft would eliminate chaingrowth which means hooray for crazy rearward axle paths
[Reply]
  • + 3
 Now, get in touch with the guy from Acros and start crunching the hydraulic trigger version...
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Might just be me, but is there a rear mech still in the last picture? Looks smart, and seems like a good idea (apart from the gripshift)
  • + 1
 Think it's a tensioner. A system like this on any full suspension frame (unless the pivot is centered on the drive sprocket) is going to require a tensioner.
  • + 1
 Unless you use horizontal dropouts, but a long travel trail bike like this wouldn`t be well suited to that.
  • + 2
 Horizontal dropouts wouldn't do anything if the pivot isn't located at the direct center of the drive sprocket... the effective chain length would change and rip your drive train to pieces!
  • + 1
 never mind then, that's good to know, thanks.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 very cool, but i could not see myself spending almost 3500 after taxes for something i would not need. there is someone out there that probably does need this, and would gladly spend that money.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Instead of the twist-shifter, how about a good old thumb shifter? They are still better then twist or trigger shifting. You can change a greater range of gears in a shorter period of time.
  • + 1
 18 gears kinda negates the cable travel a thumb shifter can pull. Much more pull than that range is required, unfortunately.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Ive been wanting that for a while, now that they made it, my wallet is saying no
[Reply]
  • + 1
 i say it needs an actuall sequential shifter... press a button and electronically shift to the next gear... pattle shifters on a bike.. =) that would be sweet...
[Reply]
  • + 2
 this one looks way cleaner than most gearboxes on the market now, gut gemacht, Deutschland.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 One important piece of information is missing. What is the power transfer efficiency? Many spur gear designs fall well short of chain drive efficiency.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 wait til next year ther will be a carbon fiber model and a new standard size!
[Reply]
  • + 3
 So rad. This is the future.
[Reply]
  • + 0
 Good looking concept but what about chainguide? You will be loosing chain every 5min. with setup like this fstatic1.mtb-news.de/img/photos/1/_/large/Pinion_Nicolai20von34.jpg
  • + 1
 The chain jumping off really shouldn't be much of an issue just as long as the frame is stiff enough side to side. Think more along the lines of a single speed or a jump bike, since the chain set-up is more like those.
  • - 1
 Chain tensioner chief. Read the article/apply your brain for a moment.
  • + 1
 Don't get me wrong I love the gearbox idea and Nicolai efforts in general but my dirt bike experience is exactly the reason I asked. The only way for me to fix the chain problem on rough trails was to add another tensioner in front but maybe that's just me.
[Reply]
  • + 0
 I suppose the each manufacturer will have their own method of inserting these into the frame so that you're stuck with one company when it's time to fix/replace them? No thanks.
  • + 2
 Stop jumping to such drastic conclusions. It's the first release - do you think they approached EVERY manufacturer in the world to make a frame for their gearbox? No - don't be a fool. Nicolai teamed up with them to prove a concept and provide food for thought.

Another classic PB comment -_-
[Reply]
  • + 2
 3399 euro is a sick bike,haha
[Reply]
  • + 1
 hydraulic shifting and belt drive to the rear tire for mine please! Okay I'll settle for electric shift.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Next thing you know, bikes are gonna come with a clutch lever.
  • + 1
 the same i thought
[Reply]
  • + 0
 Is there really a market for this? I have never seen anyone on any trail with a bike that has a gearbox. Not worth it in my opinion
  • + 6
 thats probably due to the fact that they've always been (and still are) hideously expensive.
  • + 1
 Agreed and really heavy in comparison to more conventional parts. For that price you can replace your whole drivetrain 10 times. I replace/fix mine every 2 years.
  • + 3
 You people have no imagination.
  • + 5
 Seriously - use your brains for a moment. Please. Stop spewing forth pure bullsh!t and think back for moment.

"Is there really a market for this? I have never seen anyone on any trail with a bike that has a gearbox. Not worth it in my opinion"
-Not worth what? The fact most of your drivetrain is completely out harms way from both physical impacts and contaminants? Geez that sucks. Haven't seen anyone with them... because this model is BRAND SPANKING NEW - IT WAS SHOWN AT EUROBIKE. Here in Whistler - I've seen a dozen different guys shredding the Zerode geabox DH bikes and loving them. Top that off with all the companies trying to develop gearboxes for bikes.

"Agreed and really heavy in comparison to more conventional parts. For that price you can replace your whole drivetrain 10 times. I replace/fix mine every 2 years."

-Just like disc brakes. Have a nice set on your bike do you? Wind back 10 years and chuck on a set of old Hayes Mags and tell me they were "lighter and more reliable" than the conventional V-brakes at the time. They weren't - it was new technology - BETTER technology that needed to be refined over the course of a few years. Early disc brakes were TERRIBLE but look now - anything less is laughed at.

Stop shouting down progression, especially progression that will evolve MTBs to a whole new level. We'll see who's bitching about gearboxes at the end of the decade when they are lighter, stronger, more reliable, less prone to damage and shift a whole lot better than your archaic chain and pulley setup.
  • + 1
 Dear Miff. You should learn how to read an understand what you're reading.
Not worth it to me means it's too heavy, too expensive and not worth changing in my opinion. Who are you to tell what is worth it or not worth it in my opinion.
All i said is that i never seen anyone riding a gearbox. So what? You saw a dozen guys in Whistler, out of how many? It doesn't even make a whole 1% of rider using them.
Ps. gearboxes have been around for a long time, unless the price goes down dramatically and it becomes available to most riders, it will not take off and you will only keep seeing a dozen rider a year.
No where did i shut down progression, maybe you should just relax for a bit and re-read my msg. Good luck with your non sense shouting
[Reply]
  • + 1
 How is the movement transfered to the rear wheel? I don't see a chain and the gearbox is all sealed?
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Oh look thats the front of a bike stand i designed for Nicolai :-)
[Reply]
  • + 1
 about freakin time! looks brilliant just needs a belt drive and we'll be making some progress!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 shaft drive, chain drive, imaginary link? i don't see how it makes the back wheel spin the circles.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 yo i found a fourteen speed dh bike once with the same kinda stuff.... just letten everybody know they're out their...
[Reply]
  • + 1
 2 x 9 is enough for me. Too much pomp right now.Good Idea though. I'm sure prince Charles can afford one.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I dunno guys... This is neat, but I can shift hands-free for much less money on my Landrider Autobike.
  • + 2
 They need an auto bike dh platform.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 this is the future... now only for DH...
[Reply]
  • + 3
 MADE IN GERMANY
  • + 3
 '' I love everything Made in Germany'' Smile
  • + 3
 Ich leibe es!!! Big Grin
  • + 1
 Nice try : ) the right version is Ich liebe es! Your version means something like i body that Big Grin anyway dont mind the Price of the Gearbox they have shown the inner Parts, so China will produce this very cheap in a not so far Future.
  • + 1
 Philler I hope you are wrong Wink I like buying stuff made in Europe. It's patriotic in a way - whether it is Germany UK or France... there's a high chance that some Polish guy made it Big Grin
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Next coming soono hydraulic clutch
[Reply]
  • + 0
 i dont see a chain... can someone explain how it transfers pedaling to the back tire? /what happens if you pedal backwards?
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I get by fine with 9/10 gears so dont think i will be needing this
  • + 11
 Its not about having more gears, its about instant reliable shifting whether you're pedaling hard, coasting or pedaling backwards, ie. Being able to change gear in super rough sections or in corners where you cant pedal so you're in the right gear out of the section. Gearbox bikes will be a huge advantage in downhill once they've refined them a little bit, and this one looks like just that.
  • + 2
 I dont think we need them though its just my opionion. Anyways no matter what way they go the will always be heavier than a regular derailleur.
  • + 4
 They wont be far off the weight of derailleur + cassette in a few years time; As mentioned above, Zerode's G1 box is a mere 1kg, in comparison you're talking nearly 800g for a 9sp derailleur setup (Saint mech, shifters, cables + XT cassette) plus the weight is low and central which is a lot better than having it sitting at the back of the bike, not to mention less unsprung weight on the frame's suspension plus less rotational weight on the back wheel with only the one sprocket. You also dont have the issue of ripping your bike to pieces mid-run and the shifting is far more reliable than an exposed derailleur and cassette subject to wear and corrosion - As well as the perks I mentioned above. I really don't see how your opinion is valid when you're basing it on things which aren't relevant or even true.
  • + 1
 18 gears in a regular blokes MTB is an overkill. If there only was a 7sp 11-36 cassette, I would use it gladly in 1x7. As for Pros, talked to a serious XC racer lately asking about 2x10 setup, he said he drops down from 42t very, very rarely.

As for regular mechs, 1x10 and 9x36cassette seems to be the future. You gain reliability and drop 400-600g right away even if you rolled on Sram XX. It's just, if you have a choice: make people buy front mechs, shifters, chain rings and cables, VS a chain guide only, then the answer is simple... front mechs are going to stay here for a while.

Same question goes to a single element: the gearbox VS cassette and a rear mech which is on top of the list of "might-get-wrecked-components"
  • + 4
 I don't understand how your comment is related to this argument WAKIdesigns?
A gearbox bike doesn't sell on how many gears it has, it sells on the fact that you can shift any time you like and its a reliable setup. The fact that this gearbox has 18 gears is totally irrelevant to this argument. I'm not saying this is better than blah blah blah because it has more gears. I'm saying a gearbox in general, no matter how many gears it has, would give you a serious advantage when racing downhill due to the fact that you're not limited to certain places where you can shift, like with a conventional setup. This argument is not specific to this gearbox, its about gearbox's over derailleurs in general for downhill purposes. Your 11-36t setups and what 'serious xc racers' think has nothing to do with it.
  • + 1
 I wasn't disagreeing, you're totaly right both about gearbox and about irrelevance of my PBfart in this argument, I just posted it in a wrong place by mistake...
  • + 1
 Haha no worries then Salute
  • + 1
 @downhill430 - read the comments and the ones i've posted on others. You are a fool of the highest order if you legitimately think a derailluer style setup is better than a gearbox style.

Old Abe had some very wise words and I believe one such quote applies directly to you: "“Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.”
  • - 1
 Ok yeah instant reliable shifting....Dont get me wrong im not completly against the idea but if you were to put it on a DH bike the gearbox adds another 2 - 5 inches max and if you bottomed out there is a chance you would fuck it up...I know Honda used to run them but they werent exactly the lightest things.I also think it might mess with the geometry of the bike. Im not against the idea I just dont think the design is all there.Not to mention they are quite expensive as is most high end bike components Give the gearbox time and it will get there to where it might even become universal on high end bikes. It just needs to become popular at a resonable price. And im no fool It was just an opinion that i didnt explain very well!!
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  • + 1
 smallest gearbox i've seen in awhile.
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  • + 1
 Great...now put one in my Empire and id love you forever....
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 I'm still cool with conventional chain rings and derailleurs.
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  • + 1
 hondas gonna be pissed...
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  • + 1
 thats a brillant idea but too mch gears
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  • + 1
 $3399 EUR ???? HOLLY CRAP !!!
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  • + 1
 That gear box is tiny - Good work guys !!
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  • + 1
 Thats pretty darn aweseome!
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  • + 1
 i think,this is similar to rohloff hubs push and pull cable
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  • + 1
 Driveside photos please! I hate waiting until after eurobike.....
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  • + 1
 Goya oh boya!!!!!!!!!!
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 Goya oh boya!!!!!!!!!!
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  • + 1
 those crafty germans
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  • - 1
 Knock a little bit of weight off and it'll do very well
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  • + 0
 more junk to fall apart
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  • - 1
 6 pounds!!! ummmmm, i will pass thank you...
  • + 3
 6 pounds this year means 3 pound versions to come.
  • + 2
 These guys have been working at this for years. They know the only issue riders will have with this system is the weight. If they were able to build it lighter, it would have been marketed that way... I just don't think they can do it.
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  • - 2
 damn man thats expensive
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