As mountain bikers, we have a tendency to be skeptical of change, wary that what's familiar and comfortable will be taken away, or that new technology won't be as good as the old. For instance, if you're relatively new to the sport, you probably take for granted that most mountain bikes have disc brakes. This wasn't always the case, and there was a time when mountain bike magazines were full of comments about how disc brakes would never catch on. (
This was back in the dark ages, when debates took place on the printed page instead of in internet forums). The same thing happened with full suspension bikes – there was an initial uproar about how they were too heavy, too expensive, and downright unnecessary. As time went by, the fury subsided, and the technology that was once scorned and derided became commonplace.
Wheels. Kindling for internet flame wars since 700c.Wheel size is the most recent hot topic that has fanned the flames of distrust and suspicion, creating worries that what's comfortable and familiar will be taken away forever. It's an issue that still raises the hackles of some, but those last bits of bitterness and rage are sure to fade away as well, replaced by another momentarily divisive technological advancement. And that's the funny thing – in the heat of the moment, nothing seems more important than whether or not V-brakes are superior to cantilever brakes, or whether Rasta colored cranks are better than ones that are anodized blue. But as the seasons go by, it's comical to look back and see how trivial and fairly meaningless these arguments become.
Ok, this type of change is scary.And while we're talking about fear of change, it's worth acknowledging the conspiracy theorists, those who shake their fists at the sky and warn the nameless marketers to “stop shoving (
insert name of current trend here) down our throats.” Sure, there are advertising and marketing deals happening behind the scenes all the time, but the bike industry is nowhere near organized enough to hatch up some diabolical plot to take the fun out of mountain biking. No one's forcing you to buy anything, and no one is coming to your house to take that stack of wheels you're hoarding. Heck, if you really wanted to, with a little sleuthing on eBay you could pretty easily piece together a vintage bike with like-new components from 1985 and hit the trails, modern technology be damned.
Now, this isn't to say that all new products and trends should be embraced without question. Skepticism is healthy, and if you try out a product and find that your suspicions were correct, by all means, announce it to the world. But don't forget to step back once in a while, to get outside and actually go for a ride. Because that's what it's all about, remember? We're all in this together, a motley band of misfits that share the same addiction to spending time on two wheels. We're an opinionated bunch, but I think everyone would agree that once those knobby tires hit the dirt it only takes a few pedal strokes for all the worries and concerns to fade away, replaced by the simple excitement of riding a bike.
In the end, it doesn't matter what you're riding, as long as you are. I'm only 14 and I developed all of my skills on a piece of complete shit Mongoose hardtail- so I know a good bit about riding on a bad bike. If you're reading this and you have ridden $6k+ dream bikes for all of recent memory, then go out to a local shop and rent a sub-$500 hardtail, preferably with v-brakes and no suspension adjustments. I guarantee you, you'll still have fun. If you're used to riding full DH rigs, go rent a single speed, rigid 29er. You'll still have fun. The development of the bicycle and it's different breeds sure make riding a little better, but regardless of what wheel size, suspension system or drivetrain you're running- we still all love to ride.
i like o have v_brake on the rear of my stp.. why not?but i cant because company decide too buld only dick frame,,,
my girl friend is 155cm height,,,she hardly using a s trek remedy7 26... how can she go for a 27.5?
if a want too buy e new bike i love 26 bikes but i have too buy a 27,5... and i will because i have too ride...
I'am ok with 9 sped bat i have too buy a 10 speed...what is 10 speed for?ooo because we nead Larger gear for 29 and 27,5
they chang things for good?it is getting worse for me,,..
all i need is a choice....
If you were looking at changing your frame the problem you'd have is a shrinking number of frames available for 26" wheels in short and medium travel categories of bikes. All because 650b "rolls better" and "it's progress". Well, I can't afford progress if it means I'd have to replace the fork and wheels/rims.
I understand that the bicycle manufacturers would incur higher manufacturing costs by making the same frame for two different wheel sizes but this way they expect us, the customers to incur higher costs so we can keep doing what we love. By eliminating choice manufacturers are forcing this on us and that, I feel is why most people are p****d off.
Naturally this isn't a problem if you can afford to buy a full bike. I can't. I built up my bike with parts I wanted over a period of 3 years and to get a new bike with similar spec would cost well over €5000. Something I won't be able to afford any time soon.
As somebody absolutely enamored of my 26" wheeled trail bike (because it rails corners like it's nobody's business), who doesn't blame the bike when a section of trail is tricky, it sounds like bullying.
I don't go around telling everybody else that they should really be riding the same wheel size as me because I love it so much... "each to their own". We're all different and moves like this tend to divide an already small community and alienate good people who know what they like and aren't particularly interested in changing it for the time-being.
mfbeast, I think A LOT of people buy things they don't really need, and say it's awesome because they need to justify the money they spent or they are getting the placebo effect when really lot's of things don't make a huge difference
call them and you will see that is not available and they don't sell the remdys online...
+remedy 7 is 2500 $ remedy frame is 2000$...
way to feed the stereotype.
Just playing my part. You offended as well now?
Do I appreciate it when change is forced on me by bike companies : No, not really
I think my main bug bear is the likes of Giant and Spesh going on the record saying things like "Sure we will be killing off 26" wheels as soon as we can". I used to have a lot of respect for both these companies, I currently ride a Glory for example. But the whole notion of change being forced on the masses because some pseduo science wheel size graph extols its virtues stinks of nothing more than a cynical marketing gimmick
Am I a dinosaur : No, but I am probably labeled as one for thinking the above.
Here is a great unbiased review of the pros and cons of wheel size, coming for a mechanical engineer. It is only part one of three. Pinkbike would do well to have these articals on the main page.
There are some things that are nice but I wouldn't buy a new bike to get (internally routed dropper posts, 142x12, PF30BBs, 10spd/11spd, whatever the last disc brake mount standard is, etc) but I enjoy them on my new bike. Some features were worth it hands-down to get right away (clutch derailleur, dropper post, the Pike that replaced the low end OEM Fox, EXO tires).
Anyone know the details b-mack is talking about using a SRAM shifter?
bu,t
cant remember where I read it
sorry
Crank technology is a great example what's the point of these hideous integrated BB's and why does the industry use four bolt not 5? Then someone comes along and says 'if everyone thought like you we'd all be riding bikes from the 90's'. Utter BS change is good if it is equally reliable and better performing if unproven please no, and please don't exaggerate the benefits of new tech.
650b is the other big push happening now. I guess it's an improvement, but one that makes (with some exceptions) the three most expensive parts of a bike obsolete. And manufacturers are running with it to such an extent that 26" is disappearing from ranges even faster than the 1 1/8th steerer did.. Not surprising people feel a bit sore when there's a sense that loads of their still new, perfectly good kit is being seen by the industry as obsolete, and that next wheel or fork upgrade that you're saving for might now mean a whole new bike, because American Classic, Fox or whoever no longer make 26" kit.
My bikes have always changed over time - upgrading parts when I find bargains or break stuff or just really want something new, eventually swapping out the frame and transferring the parts over, 650b will probably mean I won't change much for a long time though - eventually I'll change frame forks and wheels together, but I'll be a lot slower to do so. It probably suits folks buying whole bikes, but for me it just means less choice, and ultimately more expense.
waki-leaks.blogspot.se/2013/11/what-grinds-my-gears-conspiracy-of.html. Whenever you have time...
PRICE is the biggest change in the industry that concerns me. I just bought a 650b $4+k bike this year and the spec was shockingly bad at best. In addition to shelling out $4+k I find myself replacing just about everything on the bike. The industry has gone insane when it comes to price. Profit at all costs seems to be the de facto modus operandi now a day especially at your Local Bull S#!t artists. Good value buys are harder and harder to come across even online. Online deals have become very scarce compared to a few years ago.
While prices have skyrocketed, good customer service has plummeted. Standing by by the crappy product you put out has become optional (FOX!).
Now I am in the market for a fat bike. No suspension just a simple frame big heavy wheels and a butt load of hype, the prices are absurd and outright insulting. There is no way in hell a basic rigid fat bike with mediocre components should cost any more than $1k and yet the prices start out at north of 1.5k. The thought of a 4k fat bike just boggles the mind.
I welcome any online and overseas retailers who can undersell the absolutely bogus msrp prices the bike industry is shoving down our throats.
sus in '07 and it's been everywhere, lots. I'm not the smoothest rider either. I don't hit the big-boy stuff, but I still go down the same trails. Paid 2000$ and got a helmet to boot. Friends thought I was crazy for spending that much on a bicycle (with low-end spec too), let alone expecting to do it again within 5 years. So far the frame still looks good, and I'll keep riding it until it shows signs of failure
Yes, early adopters do have to pay more for “innovation” however it is thanks to our feedback that products get better and manufacturers are held accountable. So you are welcome for helping inform potential customers and helping deflate overpriced and overhyped products. I will keep speaking my mind and complaining about the faults I see in the industry until I am blue in the face. The more people do the same the better. For those that do, do not be discouraged by the tired “stop complaining you crybaby” industry insider shill response.
We will never be able to push the big manufacturers out, that is an exercise in futility. What we can do is develop and promote cheaper alternatives and suppliers. QBP has a near monopoly as a distributor to bike retailers, this need to be shattered to little pieces. New distributors who can sell to retailers cheaper is most welcome.
I just don't think a pick of 26" frames and forks will be available in a few years. That's the part that I'm getting from manufactures, is they are gonna stick with 2 wheel sizes and 26 isn't one of them. Maybe it will be like wide rims, every bike had 30mm+ rims in the early 80's, caused to many pinch flats, so manufactures moved to narrow rims. "The rims to have are preferably 20mm wide" and now, 28mm might be the norm again. I do have a nice set of syncros DS28 in 26", oh yeah, they aren't fast and you can't climb with them. I'll bet in 10 years that someone will review a fancy, custom frame builder's 26er and be blown away at how it handles and accelerates and how fun it is and all this stuff will come back around.
This is exactly what will happen...what's new is better, and what's old will be new again.
No one would've contested that having better brakes, in all conditions was anything but a good thing.
So no relevance to the current wheel size 'debate'.
I don’t know what roadies want with long-travel full suspension bikes but I wish they would leave their influence far away from proper freeride machines.
I will most likely end up building some 24" or 26" hoops to put on a bike for my son when he is tall enough to move up to an "adult" sized bike. At least we are still sticking with 32 spoke hubs so it's an option to put smaller wheels on a bike designed for bigger ones.
Next poll: how many spokes for your wheels?
like,,,
it will be hard when you can't find a good tire and rims and forks for it...
26 offers far better gearing options for us old guys and less than WC fit types. 27 rolls over stuff a little bit better.
I know and love change when it is truly of value. Suspension,disc brakes, clutch derailleurs,tubeless tire /wheels. I was the first on the bandwagon for all of these.
This one is hype and BS because it doesn't stand up to objective evaluation.
There is a smaller niche that needs pop, prefers to hop, and something else that rhymes with op. These people need 26.
I need to try a 650b to know what it is for.
I was drooling pretty heavy over the Norco Range, until I realized that at the end of the day it was going to ride exactly like my Mission, except a slightly better axle path and small bump absorption and slightly harder wheelie. My mission was long and low and fast, but wanted to keep it's tires pinned to the ground, making it a chore to get lift. When I thought of that I decided the range wasn't for me, and moved another way. Some people will want that great smooth trail hug: super grippy, but still whippy for the park. I always wanted more pop out of my bike though.
This sounds like my breakup letter to my bike. "You're great, baby, it's just, I need more pop..."
Like many riders, I can easily see past all the marketing BS about how 650b 'makes the trail come alive' (etc, etc), but this is the type of thing which newcomers lap up - and spend their cash on the latest shiny technology (mostly through ignorance).
If all they read in the media is "650b is the future, it brings the trail alive", then that's what they will believe - due to ignorance.
I'm perfectly happy with a fairly old 9sp 26er, yet apparently I *need* a 10sp 650b......
Seeing as opinions are like a$$holes, everyone has one no matter how much theirs stinks to you it's still all theirs so dont touch it, smell it, or gobble it down... if thats not your thing.
"I f*cking hate change, all of those new stuff doesn't make any sense to me, I love my bike and I'll stick with it. It still does shred like hell: tinyurl.com/7u7eg4s
Do I look like scared of something?"
So let me ask you this question if you are reading it and bother to reply: let's say you go 15 years back in time and you are allowed to take only two things from todays bike - what would you take to boost your fun levels on 1998 bike? I take my saint brakes and a dropper post. A person who takes the modern frame and fork providing geometry adapted to "larger" wheel sizes (that all existed back then) or a modern drive train - raise your hand
If you put a man on a bike and close his eyes, and tell him to ride like that (imagine for a moment it's possible to ride with closed eyes ) he will always tell you what kind of brakes is he riding. I'm sure 99% of the people, if not all, will not make a difference between 26 and 27.5" wheels.
Some peoples eyes glaze over in lust when the new part comes out. Then they whip out the credit card. That's why we have so much choice in what to buy, what to ride.
Are we cautious about shelling out hundreds of dollars on something new? I like to think so.
PLEASE KEEP RIDING, SELLING, BUYING 26" bikes so they don`t die
Could this mean taking on such downhill features as a rocky, boulder sized 'big' mountain side????
Im sure it would take a lot to get used to, perhaps there is not even such a thing yet.... but i do ponder, (not having actually even seen one .. ok maybe once i saw one ride past).. How far could you push a FAT bike? What is it capable of? As this article says, full suspension was once hard to grasp, now we can boost any rock garden presented to us, huck to flat etc, but if that rock garden was full of alien volcanic murder rocks.. The old Minions might not like that shit too much...AAAAND, like rumblefish said above, that girl on the fatbike looks scary, quite futuristic one might argue.2999 is the year of the fat bike hahahaha what a spiel !
I take a fat bike over 650b anytime. If they shove fatbikes down our throats instead of 650b world would be a better place.
www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/New-Downhill-Bikes-at-Eurobike-2012,4249/WHAT-THE-Santa-Cruz-V10-Fat-Bike,41635/bturman,109
Cannnodale and Yeti did not have 650b bike available for there riders. Yeti does now; Cannondale doesn't, yet, though Clementz wouldn't deny they were't testing it. Barel, Nico, Lau, etc. have all made the move to 650b, and they had their choice of wheel size from their respective bike sponsor. I would be shocked if Graves didn't do the same next season.
Waki, are you talking about riding extreme terrain like a trials rider, or a DH rider?
Talent helps a lot( however at my local races Mark weir might show up, so the hardtail might not be a good choice).
But what helps the most is full suspension. The short comings of the 26" get minimized or eliminated with full squish. That's why they're the fastest on the roughest courses( DH and Enduro).
It's interesting that there are no retro grouches in the DH / free ride / DJ categories, but immeasurable number of them in the roadie world.
Thanks
26".........obsolete........really?
The issue is progression.
If more people begin to buy larger wheels what will happen?
The trails will inevitability begin to develop more towards the larger wheel size. If we are riding bigger wheels, trail builders will design a trail that takes full advantage of the bikes we ride. Look at it from an extreme, we don't build dh trails like xc trails because the bikes have different characteristics, the larger wheel size has different characteristics again from the 26. As the trails begin to be skewed towards these characteristics the riders choice will be bigger wheels because they will be faster and they will suit the trail more, eventually there will be no benefit going to a 26er because the trails have developed in such a way that they are not needed.
This means the larger wheel will become the better choice and over time eventually buying a 26er will be seen as the lesser choice.
Now what will dictate this change is the trails. If we maintain trails that need or where the 26 offers benefits then the smaller size will not become obsolete but there is a big chance of the flow of the sport going bigger and in which case yes the 26er will become "old technology", whose going to buy a bike that's slower and not ideal for the trails?
The future of wheel size in downhill is going to come down to those who build the trails.
@choppertank3e
Not sure if we had any larger wheels on the podium however that's a poor measure, there are too many variables in downhill more so that parts are a very small part of the equation, equally this season we still have 26er trails essentially, the trails like SA where the trail is more big wheel happy there were clear gains in those sections with minimal lose in the others. Listen to what the riders are saying though most feel the larger wheel is better.
Once justified as a true improvement and actually backed up by data then I'm sure most folk would buy in to the improvement. However no such data exists to support the benefits of 650b / 29" over 26" wheels, in fact using Math it comes out at a disadvantage i.e.
"For any given forward speed of a bicycle, the energy required just to get the wheel up to speed is greater for larger radius wheels. And this relationship is linear, e.g. a wheel that is 50% larger (in radius) will require 50% more energy to reach the same speed (note that this is only wheel rotation energy, not the much larger amount of energy needed to accelerate the bike and rider)" Pulled from here: - www.tomsarazac.com/tom/opinions/wheelsize.html
I see benefit for roadies but not for MTB.
Its also worth remembering that every time you use the brakes the energy lost needs to be replaced on acceleration, as per my point above, you require more energy on larger wheels.
I honestly dont think that 650b / 29" will make much if any impact on Pro cycling (XC/DH) as these are driven by results and not by market forces. If there was tangible benefit you would have seen it already on the podiums.
That's my point though about pros, xc we already have seen may guys on larger wheels and they do make the podium often. For dh the concept is still pretty new, why we haven't seen more riders on them goes back to m previous point. Trails will dictate it. The trails the guys race have been built in the era of 26wheels. SA if you look at the times and splits there are clear gains for the larger wheels (riders who don't ussually have that ability on the pedals were doing very well. If the trails get to the point where the riders chose the larger size this will drive not only market production but public purchases. As this happens more trails will be naturally adapted to the new wheels.
The 26 will be around for a long time. But I can see two situations happening.
1.ideally we have trails that have a good mix in where no one bike stands out and it comes down to personal choice and rider choice.
2.trails begin to be better ridden by larger wheels in where slowly the market will be crowded out with the new standard as trails develop that way.
I hope the former is true. But there is the possibility of the 26er been out dated in a few years.
but would like to sill be able to buy a 26" one thats what gets my goat
After about 10 miles on that trail and after a few steep DH sections it actually felt normal. Even looking down at that big 'ol tire in front of me seemed like I was looking at my 26" bike. I did put a DH cockpit on it to help me ride this thing (800mm bars and a 40mm stem). It has Hans Dampfs on the front so It looked very familiar and the traction was incredible.
I was worried I would feel awkward riding my 26 afterwards, which was the case if you jump from bike to bike. But after a few hours rest, I went back out to the same trails with my 303RDH rig and it was no problem adjusting back to my 26" bikes again. I was thinking how I saw Arron Gwin at Sea Otter this year win the DH on a 29 and how it is possible to be proficient on different wheel sizes. So after only one ride I am considering keeping my new purchase and using it for different types of rides, mainly longer distances.
I love the exploration of new trails and I think this bike might be a good choice for all-day adventures once in a while.
So I guess I don't mind change that much. I still want to be able to get tires, wheels, forks for my 26" bikes when I need them, but adding a new cruiser to my stable has become a pleasant surprise. At 6'3" tall, they all feel like a BMX after a while anyway.
so im with you on this one, except the closing statement lol. a big bike feels like a big bike to me. not like a BMX. and i owned a 26' BMX when i was a kid, loved that bike. was the only thing i wanted for Christmas for like 3 years but yea my bighit even my Norco six dont feel the same as when i tried the 29er, was different but in a positive way. i'll still keep my 26' and i will have to wait and see what happens. 'but they will never make me get ride of my 26' wheel never lol' i love it. its so dependable.
Coming down Chumash Trail at the end was where it got sketchy, not even full DH stuff at all, but real technical for the first 1/2 mile. It was hard to maneuver the rocky obstacles I usually blast right over. Then it gets really flowy and that part was pretty fun. Towards the end it's loose golf ball size rocks over sand and rock and man it was all over the place. Maybe I'm just not used to it yet but I'd rather be on a 26 for that stuff. You are right about the limits a 29 has, and I just found them. I could be my size that is a factor and the higher center of gravity, but when I am on a 26 I barely use the brakes on that trail, I was all over them with the 29 to stay in control and went slower than ever in the loose areas. Lots of wheel flex like I always thought there would be too.
So it seems the 29 is really just for more intermediate trails and longer rides, for me at least. There are plenty of trails around here where I can see it will shine. Its like a XC bike you can thrash around, but I can't see it out performing my 26 AM bike at all. Bottom line: I have way more fun on the 26" bike for that trail today and anything gnarlier would be just scary. But I admit I need more time on it to really see if I can improve my riding the 29 over technical stuff too.
So its back to building jumps, shreddin' the gnar and getting some sick air tomorrow!!!
650B looks awesome but too expensive at the moment.
11 gears are way too much for me, up until last year I did everything on a 6 speed steel hardtail.
And Lycra... Well lycra is... as they put it in "Generation Kill": Homosexual Country music Special olympic Gay.
Now there are 4 or 5 'standard' wheel sizes, new types of derailleurs, gear setups, and more. I like the derailleur changes since derailleurs need to be improved no matter what. The 27.5, 650b, 29er, and other wheel sizes seem strange to me. Maybe they offer improvements but the highest i'd go is a 27.5. 29 seems like it would be unwieldy and make a bike less flickable and trickable. As for gearing, im happy with a single ring front and 9 in the back.
Basically I like the changes going on in the bike world, i'd be worried if we just stayed int he same place out of ignorance. I don't like the wheel size changes, but mountain biking is so popular these days that i'm glad its receiving lots of attention. I know i'll buy a DH/FR bike in the next few years, i'm glad I can wait to see what catches on and what is just a gimmick.
You are talking fantasy stuff in your opening statement.
The girvin flex stem was a thing of absolute desire, canti brakes were sex, then xtr brakes were the closest thing to a night with your fav girl.
Toe straps, girving flex stem, bramah bar and grips on my trek antilope 850.... taking her from rigid to some damping, she was my first mtb when I was around 14. Before that it was off road on touring bikes. My first off road must habe been around 1979, my dads first off road mountain experience around 1957, they just called it touring, there was not roads between bothies and hostels back then.
When elostomer suspension came out, then klein put perlescent paint on frames, these were the things of dreams.
As for 29" wheels.... some might like the current manufacturers attempt to sell us something, but I am not sold, biking is about fun, and it is true that smaller wheels are just more fun.
I can see the draw for 650b for xc, with light low profile tyres, it is not far off big tyres on a 26"bike.
If you want 29 to go fast up a hill..... you better train hard, coz I here that is where speed comes from
Stop assuming because people don't like big hoops that they aren't itching to try out the next bit of good innovation. Look at the response narrow-wide chainrings have got for example.
Friggin' hilarious.
Get out and ride!
The nature of any sport that involves technology will forever change. From film to digital cameras. From Palm Pilots to iPads and manual shifters to paddle shifters. Change is inevitable. Some for good and some for naught.
I do feel that generally most of the time the best technologies will prevail and the hype of others will fall and die out.
The debate over wheelsize to being on a hard tail vs. a full suspension bike is nice to debate about. Challenges the way we think about something and sometimes leads to better ideas. However, bashing or being a snob about it is, IMHO retarded.
To all those people who kept hating on everyone riding a 29er....well, that wheel size proved you guys wrong. It's here to stay. (I ride a 26er but eventually will move on to a 27.5 wheel size)
xD
So I gotta buy some $200 tool if I want to work on my own bike after 2013?
Utter bullshit.
The free world is no country for 29inches.
Nice and warm in the winter lots of shade in the summer.:d
and i agree they are making more bad than good... keep it simple and better... like specialized created the m4 aluminium... like spank created OohBah rim profile... like maxxis reinvented the high roller... like the low friction stanchions for boxxer... now these are new things that came to be better instead of diferent!