Reality Redesigned: The GAUNTLET Ep5: Flexible Floating Piston

63 Comments

Score Time

+ 45

fedz (May 11, 2012 at 2:05)

Step 1 - Buy this new gizmo (£££$$$$)
Step 2 - Send your shock away to get this little gizmo installed...
Step 3 - Pay for your new gizmo to be installed (£££$$$$)
Step 4 - 2 weeks later, shock arrives back....
Step 5 - Realise you have wasted your time & hard earned because you don't actually notice any difference

+ 16

Pendsocks (May 11, 2012 at 2:07)

thats for sure ! ^^
AND realise that you could'nt ride for 2 weeks

+ 29

davehayz93 (May 11, 2012 at 2:47)

you say that fedz, but the fact is... you go out and spend money on your bike by getting yourself a new set of pedals or new bars, whats the difference between tthe new and old ones? probably f*ck all! but you still did it, if this goes into production then people will buy it, its how thw world works

Example (PUSH tuned shocks) have all these adjustments like bottom out and pro-pedal on the DHX-5, people get it done becuase they think its better but actually their ripping you off becuase when you get it back its bascally the same set up which is inside the old Fox Vanilla rc

90% of people will be dragged into these products becuase they want to look better then everyone else - you might be in the other 10% that dont care but they wont give a f*ck about you.

fedz (May 11, 2012 at 2:56)

davehayz93 - you're absolutely right, I get sucked in just like the rest of them, but when I do install something that isn't an improvement on the last then it gets junked !

davehayz93 (May 11, 2012 at 3:54)

simple is better! Smile

maybe designers should concentrate on something that wont ever break?

I-am-John (May 11, 2012 at 4:14) (Below Threshold) show comment

oh im sorry, i didnt think this thing had come out yet, but it seems you guys have already tried one of these things out...?

Anyway, i think this is a rad design, so simple, yet no one else has thought of it. looking at it, it will help small bump sensitivity, but by how much depends on if they can get the materials and dimensions correct.

davehayz93 (May 11, 2012 at 4:25)

I didnt say once that I tried the product?

I-am-John (May 11, 2012 at 4:38) (Below Threshold) show comment

not you, all the people that voted up fedz.

pperini (May 11, 2012 at 6:12)

yes, you are John

- 22

daymo7 (May 11, 2012 at 10:09) (Below Threshold) show comment

John it was done made by a woman!! its never going to work, They need to stay in the kitchens!

Honus (May 11, 2012 at 11:50)

daymo7 you obviously don't know that without women engineers/inventors we wouldn't have things like Kevlar, cell phones, computers, modern furnaces, Scotchguard, White-Out, anti-pollution devices, windshield wipers, vacuum packed foods, antibiotics, advanced building materials, non reflecting glass, radiation detection, etc. Some of the most famous computer scientists, chemists, inventors and engineers of all time are women.

Terrafire (May 11, 2012 at 11:55)

" simple is better! Smile maybe designers should concentrate on something that wont ever break?"

You know, we do design things that wont ever break, then riders complain that its too big and heavy. Expensive, Light, Strong. Generally you can only get two of the three.

sauven (May 11, 2012 at 13:19)

I know this is a stupid post but i think Terrafire's saying is supposed to be Cheap, Light, Strong. You can get Expensive, Light, and Strong, its called carbon fiber.

davehayz93 (May 11, 2012 at 14:28)

That's funny because rally cars are getting lighter yet stronger? How do you explain that one?

Jacko6793 (May 11, 2012 at 14:40)

not if it becomes standard in new shocks?

NoSkidMarks (May 11, 2012 at 16:14)

This is the place to say dumb shit right? I wanna pop the rest of those buttons.

davehayz93 (May 11, 2012 at 23:27)

It is now...

downhillonaharo (May 12, 2012 at 10:07)

You mean cheap, light, strong

matt-simmons (May 12, 2012 at 11:50)

That doesnt make any sense, you dont normally get light and strong without it being expensive?

downhillonaharo (May 16, 2012 at 19:15)

exactly. you pick two. either cheap and strong(but heavy), light and strong(but expensive), or cheap and light(but weak)

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+ 12

sixkdollars (May 11, 2012 at 0:43)

You know, this isn't a bad idea. In theory it will deaden out the small bump stiction you get from the o-ring breaking free and starting to slide. It is kinda like a best of both worlds between a floating piston oil compensator and a rubber bladder compensator. My only request: bleed screw! Great idea Stephanie. Simple and original.

NoSkidMarks (May 11, 2012 at 16:15)

What's wrong with the rubber bladder system? Lot less to go wrong, and wear IMO.

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pintsize (May 11, 2012 at 9:32)

this is nothing new at all, it should be called a bladder and motocross and I have to say Avalanche shocks have been doing this for years years and decades. This is a complicated way of doing it as well, Sorry to be a dick but its true. Plus the surface area of the so called membrane is so small it wouldn't be that sensitive compared to a true bladder technology. sorry again

t1000 (May 11, 2012 at 10:00)

I think that a bladder like the ones you are talking about don't move into the reservoir, they only bend. This concept use the sliding displacement of a floating piston and the deflection of a membrane, two relative movements.

NoSkidMarks (May 11, 2012 at 16:20)

t1000 not sure what you're saying, but as the piggy back/resi/bladder fills with oil, it compresses the air/nitrogen around it. It's a near perfect solution with less stiction than this design, more durability than this design, and probably as light as this design. Bladders are were it's at. Avalanche are reliable as with bladders.

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PhoS (May 11, 2012 at 9:25)

This entire series feels so freakin awkward.

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themountain (May 11, 2012 at 4:45)

Nicely presented idea but I doubt it would make any noticeable effect or difference !
Basicly its for people who done almost everything to their bike and still have money left Wink

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xsn0w (May 11, 2012 at 8:47)

I bet the the membrane is toast after the first hard landing. Huck 10 ft to flat one time and shegone.

I see this as a novelty piece. Maybe it will show up in the pro circuit, because it "increases shock efficiency", but for those of us that want to spend more time riding then tinkering, it wont be an early adoption.

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Spthomas (May 11, 2012 at 15:41)

I get the feeling Joan has no experience in the cycling industry at all, and she's just here to fill space and recite the entrants summary of their design. So she's pretty much a lamb...

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brendan-likes-wheelies (May 11, 2012 at 23:41)

As always the woman sounds like she hasnt ridden a bike in year, the pro sounds like hes a tool and the #D printer is the only person that makes sense( as well as cane creek man)

Lehel-NS (May 11, 2012 at 23:51)

Agree.

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pattellier (May 11, 2012 at 8:49)

In theory, that idea should work. In practice, the tires are already absorbing those subtle impacts and are more responsive to dissipate the force of small impacts than when that force is multiplied at the shock's level. My 2¢.

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tacubaya (May 11, 2012 at 17:14)

Another retarded idea. If anyone here has done a full rebuild on a shock, they should probably know how easy it is to push a IFP with a properly lubed o-ring. Additionally the force that the displaced oil exerts on the IFP is quite large and in my opinion, the break away force plays an insignificant role. Tiny bump compliance is basically taken care of by the tire as they have the amount of force required to bend the tire wall but not enough to overcome eyelet bushing friction and also to initiate any coil spring compression. Small bumps have enough force to overcome the DU busing friction but not enough to initiate any significant coil compression. If you reduce friction in the eyelet interface, the force can compress the spring, store energy and then the energy can be damped by the shocks LSR.

The compression and rebound forces involved in a shock are bigger than on a fork due to leverage of the suspension design and this leverage plays a significant higher role in reducing seal initial friction (especially on air shocks) while mounting hardware (IGUS, DU, needle bearing, spherical bearing) plays a bigger role in small bump compliance. Once the shock gets into medium and high shaft velocities, the friction in the seals is MINIMAL and probably can't be felt my any human being. Also when speeds are higher, you can barely feel the difference between a low friction interface (needle bearings) and a high friction one (DU bushings).

Thumbs down to the judges, I thought they were gonna be a bit smarter and critic when doing these evaluations.

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wingman200 (May 14, 2012 at 11:30)

Dear EdgeFactor,

The Floating Piston is not an new or innovative design!

Read the following:
www.pinkbike.com/news/marzocchi-suspension-2012.html
www.marzocchi.com/template/listNews.asp?LN=UK&idC=1629&IDFolder=713&IDOggetto=59905

www.factoryconnection.com/kashimaPistons.htm
www.foxracingshox.com/fox_tech_center/owners_manuals/08_float_atv_snow_manual.pdf

However if you were to design a flexible membrane I would suggest; Rulon® J (Gold) or Rulon® 1045 (Gold) or even Rulon® 1410 (Gold)... With increasing elastic and self lubricating properties. All of the above plastics are synthetic fluoropolymers and are derived from Teflon or PTFE.

On a side note I still think my submission should have ranked higher.

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Goggsie31 (May 11, 2012 at 1:11)

I think this may only work when the pressure was equal on both sides otherwise you would have a constant bulge one way or the other, just can't see it working.

adderhead (May 11, 2012 at 1:20)

Well except that suspension fluid doesn't compress. it will only bulge into the air side while the shock is being compressed. I could be wrong though, I ain't no engineer.

sixkdollars (May 11, 2012 at 1:53)

In an ideal world with no friction, the pressure on the oil side of the floating piston will equal the pressure on the air side. With friction, as the shaft compresses and oil starts flowing towards the piston, you will feel the back force of the o-ring at first resisting and then breaking friction and starting to slide. On the rebound, it will take a slightly higher air pressure to start returning the piston to push the oil back out to prevent the shock from cavitating. The point here is that while most of the oil displacement is still handled by a floating piston, the transition between stopped and sliding piston is eased by the flexible drum. As oil flows towards the piston, the drum deflects and starts 'pulling' on the rest of the piston. Once that 'pulling' force equals the force of friction keeping the piston from sliding, it will break free and the whole piston will slide, and the drum will relax a bit. If done right it should smooth out the transition from sliding to stationary floating piston.

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uuuu (May 14, 2012 at 2:07)

"It's not very original, 'cause it has been around, in other genres of sports, and stuff"... I'm going to keep watching these just to hear Mike Montgomery impart his wisdom on us. Not entirely sure who hired this guy to speak, but if you're Japanese, it's seppuku time for you.

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pintsize (May 11, 2012 at 9:37)

active-ride.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/167307_162162433833344_137449492971305_284164_1151343_n.jpg

the big black thing is the membrane (bladder)

baca262 (May 11, 2012 at 10:29)

yup, bladder style piggy does away with all the stiction and is possibly more reliable, there's an avalanche shock with bladder. BUT, a chick that knows something about suspension and can come up with an idea like this... i'd sure as hell like to meet her.

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iamamodel (May 11, 2012 at 3:44)

2.30 to 2.35 is funny.

chuchillo (May 11, 2012 at 4:14)

Words. Are. Clear. With. A. Sustinct (Did she mean succinct?). Solution. And, a good model.

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taletotell (May 11, 2012 at 8:07)

most well received so far! Obviously the developer is pretty bright and the kind of rider who knows how to dial her suspension. I wouldn't have ever thought of this. pretty awesome. i bet we'll see them stock in suspension in 5 years.

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wingman200 (May 14, 2012 at 12:29)

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arkon11 (May 11, 2012 at 6:40)

I can see Fox buying the patent for this and releasing it sometime in the coming years at a huge price.

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k2dan (May 13, 2012 at 5:52)

am all for new things ,i think less part less shit to break ,but before passing judgment we would need to try it

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sbrdude1 (May 11, 2012 at 2:25)

Possibly use Kraton rubber for the "o" ring and blue material due to it's resistance to compressing and petroleum products.

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bbeaudoin (May 11, 2012 at 21:43)

Where can I get coffee for $1.60??!!

aceospades1250 (May 13, 2012 at 0:36)

Starbucks?

ptrhssls (May 14, 2012 at 7:47)

Medium coffee at Tim Hortons Smile

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Joebohobo (May 11, 2012 at 11:29)

seems a good idea

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Below threshold threads are hidden

wakaba (May 11, 2012 at 1:40)

Non functional with fluids. Mushy feeling with gas on both sides and no effect on stiction It would create two stiction events.... Trick is multiple rings with gaps and one loose sealing ring. Pistondesign 101. Alternatively very long plunger where stroke is shorter than open bath, like a brake block. What an uneducated bunch in this contest, both contestants and jurors and spectators.

adderhead (May 11, 2012 at 1:45)

Its not gas on both sides, it's suspension fluid on one, and air on the other. this piston is for the floating piston in the air piggyback reservoir on coil shocks/forks. I don't see why this wouldn't be functional with fluids.. I don't think you understand what piston this would be replacing .

sixkdollars (May 11, 2012 at 1:59)

This piston is made for oil on one side and gas on the other. Not sure if you understand what is going on here, try again.

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daymo7 (May 11, 2012 at 10:06)

This is why you don't leave a girl to do a man's job, keep to the kitchen girls!

Honus (May 11, 2012 at 11:24)

daymo7- You are a misogynistic idiot. I know several female engineers that are absolutely brilliant, extremely capable individuals that can easily go toe to toe with any male. Good engineering is gender blind.

daymo7 (May 11, 2012 at 13:29)

Honus you sound GAY!

Honus (May 11, 2012 at 14:27)

Nope- happily married to an intelligent beautiful woman. I'm willing to bet dollars to doughnuts you're single- probably because you're afraid of women.

Lehel-NS (May 18, 2012 at 12:41)

hahaha daymo BUUUUURNNNN lol

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