Santa Cruz Bronson - 650B Enduro Racer in Carbon and Aluminum
Natural carbon Bronsons will be offered in a number of color graphic options and if you pop for the Enve carbon wheel option, you can get them matched to your bike.
Santa Cruz has been busy this season and secretive about its plans - the first of which is the Bronson 650B line. The six-inch-travel VPP design will be offered in both carbon and aluminum in a wide number of build kits (Shimano and SRAM) that range in price from $4150 to $10,419, so there is a Bronson suitable for both thousandaire and millionaire Enduro pilots alike. Most of the release is about the top-line Enve/SRAM XXI build, which is quite stunning. The new carbon frame is updated with all of the bits that were developed for the Tallboy LTC - co-molded aluminum pivot bosses, and the simplified swingarm design. The rockers are still sturdy aluminum and all the main suspension bearings are adjustable.
Billed as an enduro racing bike, the Bronson should put the mid-size wheels to the ultimate test.
Bronson Details:
• 27.5" (650b) wheels
• 142 mm rear axle spacing.
• New molded rubber swingarm and downtube protectors.
• 2 x bottle cage mounts.
• Forged upper link.
• Forged aluminum lower link with angled grease ports: offset for chainguide clearance.
• Collet axle pivots: lock in place without pinch bolts.
• Angular contact bearings: all pivots.
• Direct mount rear derailleur hanger option: standard hanger comes as stock.
• Full carbon dropouts and disk mounts.
• Co-molded aluminum hardware on frame pivots: no bonding.
• Carbon ISCG-05 tabs.
• Routing for Reverb Stealth dropper post.
• 73mm threaded BB.
Bronsons will reportedly be the spearhead for the Syndicate's push into the European enduro racing scene, where the Santa Cruz sponsored team plans to do some damage. Rumors have it that Santa Cruz, which has been cautious to enter new markets, has been testing the Bronson for an extended period, lending credibility to the notion that the mid size wheel is much more than a fad. If you remember, SC was reluctant to offer up a 29er, but when they did, it was an instant hit. We expect the Bronson to follow suit. Is there a 650B V-10 hiding in the new Santa Cruz factory? Syndicate riders say nay, but I am thinking, yeah.
The aluminum-frame version is pretty sweet looking too. Geometry is adjusted for 27.5 inch wheels, so the 67-degree head angle is going to feel closer to 66 on the trail.
Bronson frames follow much of the new design improvements ushered in by the Tallboy LTC - a simplified swingarm design, sturdy aluminum rocker links, and adjustable angular contact bearings in the suspension pivots, but there are some new tricks, like internal dropper post routing and a direct-mount front derailleur (SC originally espoused that a clamp-type was best for those who ran and single chainring). Santa Cruz hinted that the Bronson was only the first of two big releases this spring. Sea Otter may hold another gem. we'll keep you posted.
Check out those tires. A lot of 650B riders have been waiting for those babies.
For more info on the Bronson, check out the page on the SC website. The text of the official press release follows below:
20 YEARS IN THE MAKING
Two decades of evolution at Santa Cruz brought us here. An entirely new frame, new wheel size and new perspective on what a 6" travel bike can conquer.
Bronson is not some rehashed 27.5" tribute act to anything else in our range. It stands alone as testament to the years of designing and refining at our old Bronson Street facility.
Locked up for months of secret testing, Bronson breaks straight onto the scene as the Syndicate's race bike for their Enduro World Series campaign.
From Tazmon to Bronson... Santa Cruz continues to lead each new era in mountain bike design.
Santa Cruz Bikes
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April Fools is about making a fool of people and the only way you are making a fool of anybody is by causing them (me) to post a moany comment like this thus making me look a fool to people running shitty IE. I have a headache and ever time I glance down at my keyboard I get a weird dizzy rush. Thanks pinkbike, now f*ck off. It's past 12 anyway.
weve found a second use for interrnet explorer, you know after using it to download a better web browser
People will pay for the Bronson, but with it being manufactured overseas for pennies on the dollar. Knowing what raw materials cost, I think it could sell for less and still come out ahead. And they would sell more of them. The Bronson looks great, probably has a stellar ride and would bring a big smile, but my 2013 KTM Duke is looking like a huge bargain. That's just my opinion.
A company that has got my attention is Airborne Bicycles. They are an internet only Co. ( no middleman) and most of the lbs's frown on them but when you can get a DH bike equipped with rock shox, marzocchi, avid and the like for $1400 brand new, what the hell, I cant afford $3500+ for a new one from my local shop. To bad the model I want is sold out, but I bought one of their trail bikes for my wife that uses the old Iron Horse warrior frame and for an entry level bike with disc brakes, rock shox forks, marzocchi rear shock and sram drive train I only paid $400 for it.The new top of the line 29er they offer is completely Sram XO equipped and and only cost $2999.95.
Another thing that I have noticed is that you never see a bicycle Co advertising on TV. Is this some kind of unwritten law or what? Or at least that's been my experience.
fstatic3.mtb-news.de/f/fj/71/fj71cfyn44kv/original_706171_434882629894432_1484009667_o.jpg?0
www.ridemonkey.com/forums/f19/new-v10c-xl-frames-huge-discount-254954
any questions?
Are you a idiot? A 9k Moto bike gets you kashima coated forks and shock, not steel. Fuel injection my 2012 KX450f comes with three different couplers so I can change fuel injection mapping in 2 minutes. The wheels are tough as hell, I've never beent a frame, single pivot suspension is amazing, and my wire bead tires never blow out. Not to mention a fuel pump, ecu, hole shot device to tame the power and put it to the ground. My bikes had got just as much electrical as a car, and it only cost 8,400. Then I deck it out with a pipe, wheels, levers, suspension, and different graphics, non of which needed changed, I just wanted to do it. And I still come in cheaper then my Santa Cruz V-10 Carbon with Enve wheels, Fox Suspension and a whole saint group????
That just doesn't add up to me!
Can you pedal you moto bike uphill? No, you can not. It is much easier and cheaper to make something driven by a motor (and sold in large quantities)
At least here you do get quite a bit of moving parts. Road bikes are at this price point all the time, and they do not even have things like suspension or hydraulic brakes.
Why? Because it is even harder to make a machine that is that light, that stiff and holds up to motorcycle like speeds on descends without breaking apart.
It is stupid to compare unrelated products. If you can design and make a better bicycle for cheaper - go start a bike company. Maybe you will earn something and stop counting other people's money.
But the thing is - you can't.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demand_curve
most people are willing to pay more than 100$ for a per of snickers with the right brand name while it only 5$ to make and market them.
BTW the amount of R&D put into MX bike clutch is more than all the R&D Santa Cruz putting for all their bikes combined but again this would not be reflected in the price anyway
I love MTB because I can afford the same equipment the top pros can run. I could never do that when racing moto.
The only Thing i have my parents pay for is school tuitio. I learned the value of a dollar saved bought a motorcycle and a used but nice tacoma no bitching here buddy i work hard for mytoys too
Try racing Moto if you want to see expensive. In a weekend: $300.00 tires, $400.00 clutch, $120.00 fork rebuild, $200.00 entry fees plus truck to haul bike, fuel, oil changes. Ober a season: 3 sets of wheel bearings, three chains and sperockets, 1-2 engine rebuilds. Plan on 15-20k to race each weekend for a year. Its nuts. This is why I ride MTB. Its CHEAP in comparison.
The price is unreal. I'll still to a nomad c. My riding buddy nearly brought a nomad C for £5000 from one of our local shops for half of that top spec bike and it was full custom spec and probaly a better buy!!!! I'm sorry but how ever good'a bike this maybe if you buy it your either stupid, have to much money or are sponsored in which case you've been given it!!!!
Just my opinion.
x9 shifting(type 2), xt brakes with floating rotors, hope hubs, flow ex rims, maxxis tyres (tubeless), slx crank with chromag chainring, kmc chain, atlas bars, pro grips,
so my point is i just can't see how they justify the prices they put on these bikes.
So i just went to Universal Cycles to build up the specs of this bike , and for a grand total of $5500 thats with a coupon code added in i was able to build out this whole exact build minus the frame & fox shock . These companies are still making money off the parts too , so now im left with $5000 . so is that how much they are charging for the frame with a shock ?
$2750 for the aluminum demo? Nearly $1000 less than that for the operator frame? Not hating on specialized (I'd love one of the recently discontinued 4" SX's), but with their volume i'm thinking they must offer a hell of a retirement package for the employees!!!
Idiots will pay whatever someone is asking for something, if they feel its worth it to them.
Is 10k for a bike a lot of money? Yes. Is the demand there? Yes. Do you have to give your 10k to SC? No..that one is optional.
For the guys comparing motorbikes to bikes...be fair and compare top of the line with top of the line, things will look very different then.
Ride on!
i think taletotell has it about right. but an interesting point is that Knolly in BC thinks that 650b may be too much for the chilcotin (160mm) but sees 650b as an optimal solution for their new carbon endorphin (140mm) out this year. Specialised put alot of research $ into 29 so it will obviously pursue a 29 solution for every bike at 160mm and below.
I think time will tell it like this..
170 and above = 26
160 = 26 or 650b
150 to 130 = 650b
120 and below = 29
there will always be people who will want to deviate from this list and thats where specialised with there different take on things will fit in. 650b is here to stay, real shame this years norco killer b's are 'snapping' though...ask the UK distributor.
I love Spec for that and many other things, I am putting my money on them with pride
As to teams, the SC intense team has already announced they're riding 650B M9s this year. No doubt Santa Cruz didn't want their VPP licensing partners to have the only VPP bikes with 650B compatibility.
The thing that is missing right now is the 150mm travel 650b BOS Deville Fork. When that hits the market in the next 12months, the game will change...it will be applicable to the HUGE number of quality trail bikes out there (140 to 150mm whippets) like the lapierre zesty, commencal am, knolly endorphin....i think these might turn out to be the go-to Mega-avalanche bikes of the future.
I still want Curtis Keene to kill it for USA!
As to Curtis Keene...you assume he's not going to be using the new 29er S-works enduro...
Athy is running a 650b GT "enduro" bike at the moment??
not 26 as you say...
dirt.mpora.com/video-clips/wideopenmag-2013-uk-gravity-enduro-series-round-1-at-afan.html
dirt.mpora.com/news/dirttv-uk-gravity-enduro-rd1-chit-chatafan.html
The 26er riders in 3rd to 5th were separated in times by a third of a second total. Then its 41 seconds to 2nd place for the guy on his new 29er, and then 34 seconds to Dan on his 650B which they clearly didn't want to let the beans spill on yet during the interview so instead of video of a cleaned off bike, they edited in a still photo of the bike covered in mud.
This year its going to be all about the bigger wheels in enduro. Adapt or else.
I think all bikes will be 650b soon enough but to be honest i think this "adapt or else" spiel is rubbish. The wheel is only marginally bigger, they are 26.8inches as opposed to 26. The difference in performance will not be huge as quite frankly the difference in the wheels rollover ability isnt very substantial. I guarantee the fast guys on 26 inch wheels wont suddenly be beaten by the slower guys on 26.8 inch wheels.
MBR did a special on 650b bikes last month. The bead seat diameter of a 26inch wheel is 559mm. The diameter of a 650b is 584mm. The diameter of a 29er is 622mm. Clearly the 650b is not right in between the two of them and is in fact much closer in size to the 26 inch. Its plain as day even looking at the three different tyres side by side. The 650b is only a little bit bigger than a 26 inch to look at but noticeably smaller than the 29er. The 650b may be a slight improvement over a 26 inch wheel in terms of rollover but it will also be heavier, fractionally less stiff and accellerate a little slower. Saying it makes 26ers obsolete makes you sound ridiculous. It may very well be a better size tyre but the difference will be very small/not noticeable for most riders. Saying it makes 26ers obsolete straight away is hysterical. I bet plenty of races all around the world this year will still be won by 26 inch wheels.
And by the way i quite like the idea of 650b.
"this is arguably one of the first occasions when a manufacturer didn’t simply choose 650b wheels because they were new and therefore had to be rad – the Bronson’s wheel choice came from the demands of a consumer and not the whims of a product manager. Personally, I wish that so many people hadn’t taken time out of their day to call Santa Cruz and ask them to build a bike with a wheel size that I am willing to bet 90 percent of them had never even ridden.."
Maybe if SantaCruz stuck to their engineering guns seeing as there was no real performance advantage in 27.5 we'd have one of the best 26in enduro bikes ever made.
I think what the engineers are getting at here is that you and me won't really notice a difference in 650b vs 26. I think what the author didn't ask or SC didn't tell him is which size is faster. I am willing to bet that SC had these guys on the 26 proto, 650b proto, and tallboy LT and were doing timed runs on enduro race type trails and 650b is the fastest. Is it the most fun bike SC makes? Maybe not, but for enduro racing I am willing to bet this the fastest bike they make. SC pays Greg, Ratboy, and Peaty a lot of money and if they are racing enduro SC wants them on the fastest enduro bike they make to give these guys the best chance at the podium.
It is much more expensive to make light parts that are still strong enough to handle speed to approach that of a motobike. It really is, especially when you make just a few of them.
You can make and sell a functional bike for $100. They are in every Walmart. It is twice as heavy and it will fall apart if ridden in anger. It is not like it is a global conspiracy.
That said, with a bit of shopping you can get pretty much 95% of performance for around $3K. Which is in line with many sporting toys.
Tell me what, why does a golf putter cost $300?
1 Pro MX bikes are $30,000-70,000. Stock top of the line MTB's are just a pair of unobtainable tires and next year's suspension away from what the Big Boys ride.- 90% Pro race ready.
2 $3000 gets you more bike then ever before. It may not be titanium/carbon/XTR but its still better than the very best money could buy 10 years ago. Should the bike industry stop innovating so that no one will ever feel bad about not having XX1/Enve?
How stupid is to compare two completely unrelated pieces of equipment with drastically different purposes and requirements. The only thing in common is that they got two wheels. Why do not you compare bike to a washing machine - you know you can get a very good one for just around one thousand $..
It is a highly specific product and way of production. You got to be severely silly not to see the difference.
I'm not saying bicycles are more engineered, but they are going through rapid evolution, which prevents using one design for 10 years- unless you are Kona, and read the comments on them when reviews are presented.
Also don't forget rearward axle paths work great on bumps, but dramatically affect pedal feedback. Everything is a compromize.
The 26er camp will of course say its a fluke, just as the 29er XC camp was saying so after the first world cup XC race last year when Nino beat all the 29er riders. Except as the season progressed, he beat them 4 more times, and at the worlds, and a silver at the Olympics...
Deeeight, you probably sleep with 650b wheels you are so obsessed with them, so you opinion is not objective enough to be valid.
From smirgski comment www.bikemag.com/gear/exclusive-video-bronson-santa-cruzs-new-650b-trail-bike
So it was driven from not wanting to be left out of market share, not on any performance benefit. So i presume that SantaCruz is intending to sell more whole bikes? Rather than frames. Makes business sense i guess.
The thing is what Joe Graney say at the end about wheel size "who cares", well im in the market for a new frame, and i care about wheel size. I dont want to upgrade my perfectly good rims, selection of tyres for all condition and forks as they are perfectly good. To do that i may as well just buy a whole new bike as it will cost the same. Maybe the days of selling frames does not make enough money any more. Looks like Intense will end up having my money.
The amount of added rubber is an issue. The only one, but a big one. I am hoping to see lighter tyres coming out. In the mean time, I run a DH minion on the front for traction this time of year anyway so I don't think the added tire weight of a 650b would bother me much.
The world is flat!! The world is flat!!! The world is flat!!!! Iknow its true, stop showingme science and numbers!! They are all marketing BS!!!!
The actual "fanboys" are the guys claiming 26" is good enough when thay haven't tried 650b yet.
Mozz- again, if you read the past 6 months of articles on bike releases and product development, the info is there repeatedly. It is consistent with what those of us who actually own 650b bikes feel and experience. Regarding travel- sure if you want to set up your suspension so active you lose all of your pedaling efficiency. I personally don't want to do that, but you might be OK with it. The inverse is also true, with slacker and lower geometry, you are mimicking the ride of a larger wheel bike with a 26" wheel. If you actually understand what changes in geometry do, then this is obvious.
I think 650b is going to be the new enduro standard. It will be faster on most tracks with a few exceptions. They are just faster most of the time, but it didn't make the difference here.
Races like that annoy me. I was disappointed because if the features had been too gnarly to just roll through the average xc guys would have backed out. 2 of them still would have won it (they did the jumps and one of them was just awesome and the other was pretty good on his big 29er) and I would have been in the top 5, the ones who actually got cash.
Woow, just woow. Now this show us you know absolutely nothing about suspension set up, and you expect me to hear your arguments for a bigger wheel? " Regarding travel- sure if you want to set up your suspension so active you lose all of your pedaling efficiency" The amount of suspension travel has absolutely nothing to do with the efficiency of the drive train. It just means that your bike it not sitting at its designed optimal ride height. Setting you suspension at the rear too hard will just make the bike jack up when pedalled hard on the majority of suspension designs and at that point you might as well buy a hard tail because you rear wheel will be tracking the ground with the same efficiency. When was the last time you bottomed the thing out? Because if your not doing it occasionally then your set up is really poor.
If you really want to improve you drive train efficiency in most cases drop a few teeth on the chainring size, this will increase the moment arm of the chain line against the main pivot location (be it actual or virtual), this is exactly what i do with my Trek, i run a 34T for most of England, and bolt a 38T or Scotalnd, Wales and the Alps. Running the 34T really means you can mash the shit out of the pedals in the first 3 gears without any noticeable bob and buy the time you're up to speed and further down the cassette the pedal feedback in the gnar is minimal. Its a trade off. Pedal feedback and drive train efficiency are inversely proportional gear for gear.
All high performance suspension should be set up at starting point of 0.8* the natural frequency (if you dont understand the maths of natural frequency wiki is actually pretty good) of the system front and rear (Yes slightly under damped), this put the minimum amount of energy into the damper even though it oscillates about the sag point a very small amount. This means all your damping systems are less likely to over heat when really pushed and your damping stays consistan for longer and also helps cancel out other parasitic losses. From there its tune to course and have the rebound as fast as you dare.
Slacker and lower geometry does not mimic that of 29ers at all. Just look at Sam Hills Sunday from back in the day, that was the bike that started the the low and slack ball rolling, not trying to emulate a 29ers. Slackening head angles is something i have been playing around with since 2006 with the first prototype ARC cups from K9 on a Sunday to try and recreate Hills geo. Waaaay before canecreek even thought of its version. The main common feel between the 2 is a function of a longer wheel base making the bike stable and slowing the steering through a greater turning radius (ackerman). A modern bike has lots more mechanical trail then they used to. On a 29er the fork offset is designed to reduce mechanical trail to overcome the gyroscopic effect of a larger wheel, the polar opposite of modern 26in geometry which has been increasing.
So what are you reading for these reviews then? Bike magazine? that garbage publication full of lycra, articles splits across different pages of the magazine, which actually has more adverts than articles? I'm pretty sure they stopped importing that into the UK many years ago. Last time i saw that magazine in the UK Brett Tippy was riding a Specalized BigHit with a 24" rear wheel. The only publication which has done back to back test that i know of is Dirt, where they pitted a tracer29 Vs, a carbine26. And a Trek Slash Vs. Rumblefish. The Tracer29 beat the Carbine, but the Slash beat the Rumblefish. Over all the Slash had the fastest time, but not in every sector of the Enduro they set up. SOOO for the third time, if you could kindly point me in the direction of these reviews i will gladly read them and then form my own opinion. If not i'll presume you cant or wont or you just being an arse.
Im still yet to see any 650 in shops over here, i'll take one on a test ride day asap just from curiosity. AND YOU ARE STILL IGNORING MY ORIGINAL POINT, do you just like reading you own word online?
I, like most people, have more a head for narrative. That is why article reviews are so effective. I haven't seen a ton of articles that claimed science or were particularly balanced in their approach, sacrificing validity in most cases of any comparison. There are exceptions though.
I did read a review of three jamis hardtails in three wheel sizes. They liked the 650b best, but it seemed to be about preference. Then there is that PB article in which they took the three sizes between three guys and rode the same trail 3 times. The author was unimpressed with the 650b, though the other two liked it with one of them preferring it over 29 or 26. They all got the fastest time on their trail with the 29er (but slowest descent) and the writer had the most fun on a 26. The 26 took the techy descent fastest (for all of them) and the 650b averaged between. In the end one guy preferred the 29, one preferred the 650b, and the last liked 26. Seems like it comes down to taste for enjoyment of the ride.
Whether you can crank out win after win will depend on where your strengths lay. If you are super fit, but need help on the tech maybe 26 is your thing. If you are not super fit, but can throw around big wheels then a 29er might make up the difference. If you are neither nor than maybe 650b is for you. If you are both than use a 29er and go even faster while whipping around those huge wheels like a bmx. Congrats you are liam neeson.
I have no math to back this up, only what the reviewers say.
In addition, suspension manipulates the "angle of attac' of the wheel over a bump, depending on all the variables listed above. Tire volume and casing repsonsiveness have an inflience as well. You can mathematically make a 26" and 29" bike have near identical feel over the same bump by manipulating tire variables, leverage variables, geometry variables, suspension variables, and wheel diameter variables. To KISS, imagine an angle of attack based on tire diameter, the add two teeter totters on the ramp that represent spring rate and damping (leave out the other variables to prevent you from losing the concept). By manipulating the variables and responsiveness of each one, you can end up with the exact same effective angle of attack. This is separare from the feel generated by momentum, which influences out theoretical ramps and teeter totters, but this is where the engineers look at balancing amount of rubber/vs/aluminum., spoke count, etc. to minimize the differecne in feel.
BTW, I weld my own frames.
@Willie1 Are you liking reading you own words again???
1st Propedal is shit! Lock outs thats a different game, But cranking up the low speed compression only serves to mask shit suspension designs. As soon as you get hauling all this low speed compression becomes a hinderance and only really ends up heating the oil in the damper, making its performance inconsistent.
The mechanical manipulation you talk is the drivetrain efficiency i was talking about, its effect is on every single full suspension bike, bar a very few with odd drivetrains. All twin link and vpp designs do is make the chains torque relationship away from linear relationship which most single pivots have to a non linear, usually with the effect of the pedal feedback getting less and less as the suspension moves away from its sag point. Wheel size has absolutely minimal to no influence on this contrary to what you say its just the vertical height of the pivot Vs. the vertical hight of the chain torque line the fraction increase in unsprung weight is negligible in relationship to the moment arm.
The sentace you wrote "Since this is the case, the wheel size has a bigger difference on the chassis unless you remove the hydraulic or mechanical manipulation" and all below its incoherent. Im not sure what you are trying to say? Leverage ratio is not even slightly complicated, even if you go for a rising rate or falling or a bit of both. The tricks come in critically damping the the wheel rate at any give wheel travel throughout a range of wheel velocities the bike sees in operation....
The "angle of attac" thing you describe(poorly) is bollocks. Wheels are round some are bigger that others that gives them more time to react to square edge hits at the same speed in comparison to smaller wheels.
Tyres are springs that suffer hysteresis, lets move on from there as that get very complicated very fast and this is Pinkbike.
Im not sure what a teeter totter is, i think Joey in Friends was eating them once, is it some sort of cake? And to be honest it all reads like dribble from then on, i think you are trying to describe a rewards axel path with a smaller wheel feeling like a more normal wheel path with a bigger wheel? And throwing inertia in there for good luck? Who's know. And im far beyond caring at this time in the evening.
You weld your own frames, cool. Lets see them! I did a 4 year advanced apprenticeship in fabrication making parts and exhausts for various race teams team before i went to University. Coolest thing i've made is qualifying exhausts for a 3 litre V10 F1 engine out of 0.3mm Inconel 625 and TIG welded it together (you know you doing crazy thin shit when you are only taking you tig set only up to 12 amps and you base is 5). 20 grand a pop per car back in 2001 and binned due to thermal cycling as soon as F1 qualifying had finished, absolutely criminal.
Still no links to all this data you are on about? Thought as much.
This is not a place to teach you physics. I tell you what read a book and educate yourself. Tony Foale has made some great motorcycle chassis engineering books and many of the theories described can be directly transfered to pedal powered bicycles. Once you've read them, maybe move on to Milliken and Milliken's Race Car Vehicle Dynamics to get a Jedi level of understanding springs, dampers, and the physics underlying any chassis dynamics of any vehicle.
Still like any good troll, you are going to have to get the last word/rant in at this point. Dont waste your time writing a long reply, im not going to bother reading it. I bid you fare well.
Your action is as stupid and pointless as of people who say that "29ers are gay" or shout "26 for life". It does not matter on which side of the barrier you stand, it is the fact how much you fight over nothing
And this recent "Troll" nomenclature heh - no offence man, but since when being a geek became more noble? You two sound like damn science geeks doing experiments and shit. I've ridden bikes with all wheel sizes from 20" to 29" - it's different bikes for different people in different terrains - there is nothing more to say. To hell with the guy saying that this and that is the best weapon for this kind of riding. What the f*ck is "the kind of riding?!" It's a bullshit invented by DH wannabies who's bikes cannot be used effectively on anything else than a f*cking DH course.
Back in 2004, I bought a Spec Enduro and went for my first trip to Whistler. People in the park were telling me to watch out on that bike, it's sketchy and they've seen ones breaking on XC comps! Look where we are now - just compare it's geo to current "NU school trail bikes". Don't be so "this and that will be the best" cuz - we'll see.
Peace!
go and whine to Ferrari about their pricing....nobody from Ferrari will care about your whining. there's a top end in every market (designer, boutique, limited edition, niche) just happens to be one in MTB too. people will still buy this high end stuff and buy their ENVE wheel sets. whatever, good luck to those that can afford. personally this useless whining and snivelling about prices pisses me off
too many broke teenybopper kids whining on PB about bikes and MTB in general. also no, this is not MX/Moto - the volumes are way less, the market is smaller, and has less commercial and sponsorship dollars flowing around. stop comparing oil and water. zzzz
/rant
Two of my nicer bikes did cost less to me together than a single complete in a store. All the good parts one can find.
I custom built a Mojo SL a few years back, and the retail prices of everything would have come in at about 10k. I boulght last years moder every component I could. I have full XX, Formula brakes, and carbon wheels with Hope hubs. I don't see the pricing as out of line for the market segment the top line bikes are in. Stop bitching and buy the SLX version.
10K bikes do sell. S-works Epic case in point. or about 20K road bikes!
Nwe what would a MX motobike with carbon frame and wheels and titanium gearbox cost?
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep;
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks...
etcetera..etcetera
Secondly, the only reason that MTB's are so exy is because of economies of scale. Yamaha etc are all way way way bigger than SantaCruz Yetti etc, have manufacturing lines that cost big $$$ but save time and $$$ consequently and sell heaps more units that these MTB manufactures. You can't even compare. I would charge you $15k for me to build you a box trailer for your mx bike but if you bought a commercial one maybe you'd pay $7k. Mine will have better welds and be much nicer and customized to your every need but it won't be twice as good. Oh and just like I don't need RV2's race bike why do you need a bike same as the top MTB pros? If your like me that level of gear is wasted on even above average skills.
It's a plain simple economics and it applies to all things for trade and sale such as purse, shoes, cars etc etc.... So if you feel that price is too high then deal with it because you have no power over it but you can choose to look around elsewhere...
We have been given the liberty to choose where we throw our cash and who to do business with and that same rights apply to companies... Did you really think green product is green and it cost more?????
Whew! The beauty of capitalism ha!!
although nice ride
because there are still people out there dumb enough to pay it thats why
Same thing with bikes I can't afford $10,000 but $5000 was good for me
The problem is when you add a new standard you complicate things by 100%. Look at forks, can I have a 140mm travel, 20mm axle, 650B 1.5mm taper? So you go to a shop and ask, there's almost a certainty that they won't have what you want. So you have to ask them to order it, thing is you can order it too, get it quicker and pay less. Thing is it's getting so complicated that online retailers often don't have what you want either.
I've got a brand new 2012 carbon tallboy with all new xt components that I spent 3k on.. It weights about 25.5 lbs and it gets the job done.. You keeping wanting and they keep providing.. You all sound like crack heads bitching about the price of crack.. Leave the 10k bikes to the professionals and get a bike based on your skills... and comparing a dirt bike to a bicycle is the dumbest thing I've ever heard? You can't compare them!! And anyone that says I can buy a motorcycle for the price of your bike, just nod at the dip shit and buy the fat ass a burger. They have no clue... The enve/xtr builds are for douche bags and die hard racers.. If your not making a living off racing then don't be a douche bag.. Buy a reasonably priced bike that Santa Cruz does offer..
10k for a bike - wtf?!?!?
m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=ZblxVza9JMk&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DZblxVza9JMk
If Steve Peat says it's alright...it's alright with me.
I'll still stick with my Stumpjumper Evo 29 though...but it's still a sweet looking bike.
In many other industries, companies spend vast amounts of effort to align themselves with a particular section of the market. BMW do not make entry level cheap-as-chips cars for a first time buyer, neither do Merc or any of the names you associate with more expensive cars. Toyota do. Before you all scream they also make Lexus, that is the point: the market is different for Lexus and Toyota so that is the reason why they have two completely different companies. And we let them because we perceive the two to be vastly different. They are separating the two in the minds of us, the consumers. As a result, Lexus buyers do not complain about the price, they know they are buying something they believe to be better. Toyota buyers do not complain about the price of Lexae. Or is that Lexii, or Lexuses. We believe the two to be mutually exclusive, whether or not that be the case.
Now apply that to the world of MTB and you can see, or should be able to, a huge difference. There are industry standards and you can hang any number of different quality and spec parts on one frame, and across different companies' frames. that is pretty unique. you can't take a drivetrain from a Ferrari and put in in a Ford in your garage in an evening: but want to put XX1 or whatever else costs an arm and a leg on your 100$ frame and you can. And that leads us as consumers to believe all bikes are essentially the same. This makes it difficult to believe that price differentials are valid. Companies have a much more difficult time making us accept the same price differentials we are happy to accept in other industries.
Will we ever see a day when a bike company splits its product line like Toyota and Lexus? Maybe not, and i hope not, however please remember that price differentials exist and are justified mainly in the mind of the consumer. As many have said here, if you think it's too expensive don't buy it. I have chosen to build all my bikes from hubs up these days, believe I have got some great riding bikes for not crazy money and am glad that we can choose to hang whatever parts we like off our frames. I love the bike
I've got a brand new 2012 carbon tallboy with all new xt components that I spent 3k on.. It weights about 25.5 lbs and it gets the job done.. You keeping wanting and they keep providing.. You all sound like crack heads complaining about the price of crack.. Leave the 10k bikes to the professionals and get a bike based on your skills... and comparing a dirt bike to a bicycle is the dumbest thing I've ever heard? You can't compare them!! And anyone that says I can buy a motorcycle for the price of your bike, just nod at the moron and and buy the fat chump a burger. They have no clue... The enve/xtr builds are for douche bags and die hard racers.. If your not making a living off racing then don't be a douche bag.. Buy a reasonably priced bike that Santa Cruz offers
price? sc has aLways been priced as hd (harley davidson)...dont complain now.
is the industry going back to hardcore xc geometry or something? does not sound fun at all. this coming from someone who has owned almost every SC bike ever made.
Look at Norco, Rocky Mountain or every other 650b models.
Spec Enduro, Enduro 29er, SJ FSR, Lapierre Spicy, Norcos, Turners, Scott.... everyone has lower BB.
Someone enlighten me please.
Hym, I do no know, I think future DH will be on 650B and enduro 29"
I am waiting for new Santa enduro 29" or will buy Spec
Still, I believe this.
But probobly it is all a joke 1 April
this aint ovah
Take a Blur TRC, ad big wheels, more travel, more angle, and you have a fresh "new Bronson" ! I'm not saying this gonna be a bad bike, this one look stunning ! The Nomad is still a good bike in my opinion, but the Bronson is just answering all the codes of the current market... Enduro season is just starting, make the link and you have the new marketing weapon of Santa Cruz