Scott Genius 720 - Review

Jan 28, 2013
by Mike Kazimer  
 
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TESTED
SCOTT
Genius
720
WORDS: Mike Kazimer
PHOTOS: Ian Hylands

Scott has been at the forefront of the recent push for 650B wheels, with Scott Swisspower athlete Nino Schurter racking up World Cup wins aboard a hardtail running the in-between wheel size. While race results can help prove the viability of a product, Scott's engineers performed further tests to determine if 650B wheels were worth pursuing. Through their testing, they found that 650B wheels weighed only 5% more than 26” wheels, compared to 29” wheels, which weighed 11% more than 26” wheels. Plus, the 650B wheel size could be used on longer travel bikes, such as Scott's Genius line of trail bikes, and could more easily fit smaller riders. Lab tests and the race results of super-fit cross-country racers are one thing, but how a bike handles in the real world is another. We managed to get our hands on a Genius 720 to see if its trail performance matched up with Scott's lab results.

Details

The Genius lineup has undergone numerous refinements since its introduction ten years ago, and for 2013 the Genius is available in 650B or 29” wheels sizes. The 650B wheeled bikes, which Scott calls their 700 series, have 150mm of travel, while the 29ers (the 900 series) have 130mm of travel. The Genius 720 has a carbon front triangle, a Shimano XT/SLX gruppo, and weighs in at 30.03lbs (size large) without pedals. MSRP is $4729.99 USD. SCOTT Sports.

• Purpose: all-mountain/trail bike
• Carbon IMP/HMF front triangle
• Rear wheel travel: 150mm (5.9 inches)
• Tapered head tube
• FOX 34 Talas 650B Evolution CTD Air

• DT Nude2 rear shock / 3 modes: Lockout-TC-D
• Shimano XT/SLX 3x10 drivetrain
• Shimano SLX brakes w/ 180mm rotors
• Weight: 30.03 pounds (w/o pedals)
• Sizes: S, M, L (tested), XL



Scott Genius 720 Geometry

Scott 720 Geometry


Frame Design

Scott is no stranger to making bikes out of carbon fiber, with over twenty-one years of experience, beginning with the Endorphin model that was unveiled in 1992. The Genius 720 features a carbon front triangle constructed using Scott's proprietary Integrated Molding Process (IMP), which involves using high modulus fibers oriented and layered to achieve the optimum strength-to-weight ratio. The bottom bracket area, which uses the PF92 standard, is visually impressive, looking like something from a stealth fighter, a shapely mass of carbon designed to be laterally stiff so that pedaling input is translated into forward motion, not wasted on side-to-side flex. The shift cables and rear shock control are internally routed, disappearing into the frame just behind the tapered headtube before reemerging at the rear shock and bottom bracket area.

Scott Genius 720
  The Genius 720's command center. It looks busy, but everything has a purpose. The TwinLoc lever controls the Fox 34 front fork and DT Swiss Nude2 rear shock simultaneously.

At first glance, the jumble of cables and housing coming off the front end of the Genius 720 looks overwhelming. With a dropper post installed (the 720 build kit doesn't include one, but does have routing for running a stealth post), there are a total of 7 lengths of housing originating at the handlebars. This includes the front and rear brake, front and rear derailleur, front and rear shock (which are both controlled by Scott's TwinLoc lever), and the aforementioned dropper post. Everything has a purpose, but it does take some time to get used to all the gadgetry in one place.

  The bike comes with a 135mm QR, but the dropouts can be switched, letting the Genius accommodate wheels with 142x12 or 135x12 spacing. The Genius also has a post mounted rear brake, a frame design feature that is becoming more common.

The rear dropouts of the Genius are interchangeable, allowing wheels of 142x12, 135x12 or 135x10 spacing to be used. Big fans of creative acronyms, Scott calls this system IDS-SL, or Interchangeable Dropout System – Super Light. The Genius 720 comes with a 135x5mm DT Swiss RWS quick release, which threads into the drive side dropout.

Suspension Design


The Scott Genius 720 uses a link driven single pivot suspension design, with a forged link activating the DT Swiss Nude2 rear shock. The linkage has a chip that can be flipped to alter the bike's geometry, changing the bottom bracket height by 6mm and the head angle by .4 degrees depending on the chip's position. One touch that mechanics will appreciate is the bolt torque specs printed on the bearing caps, eliminating the need for greasy fingered internet searches.

While the Genius' suspension design is relatively basic, Scott takes it a step further with their patented TwinLoc system, which is controlled by the handlebar mounted lever. The three modes for the Nude2 rear shock are Lock, Traction, and Descend, which correspond with the Fox 34 front fork's Climb, Trail and Descend modes. When the lever is pushed to switch the Nude2 shock to Lock mode, the front fork is simultaneously put into Climb mode. Switching to Traction mode limits the rear shock's travel to 100 millimeters and puts the front fork into Trail mode. Compared to
how travel adjustable front forks work, which ride lower in their travel when they're put into short travel mode, putting the rear shock into Traction mode doesn't make it ride lower in its travel. Instead, the shock canister's air volume is reduced, creating less sag, which in turn raises the bike's ride height, and slightly steepens the head angle.

Component Check

The Genius is decked out with a mixture of Shimano XT and SLX components, along with a variety of Syncros products, which isn't surprising considering Scott purchased the company early last year. Front suspension duties are handled by an Evolution Series Fox 34 TALAS with CTD that can be run at 150 or 120mm of travel, while the DT Swiss Nude2 rear shock provides up to 150mm of rear travel. It was nice to see a pair of proper pedals (Shimano M520) included with the bike. While not everyone rides Shimano (or even clipless) pedals, it's better to have them included than needing to tack on another $80 or more to the final price of the bike. We would have preferred a double ring setup in the front versus the triple that the Genius is equipped with - less shifting equals more time to focus on the trail. Shimano SLX brakes keep the Genius' speed under control, and Schwalbe's 2.25” Nobby Nic tires are seated on Syncros branded rims and hubs (although the hubs are made by DT Swiss).

Specifications
Release Date 2013
Price $4729.99
Travel 150mm
Rear Shock SCOTT DT Nude2 / 3 modes Lockout-TC-D
Fork FOX 34 Talas 650b Evolution CTD Air
Headset Ritchey Comp Plus Tapered 1.5" - 1 1/8"
Cassette Shimano XT CS-M771-10 11-36 T
Crankarms Shimano XT FC-M780
Bottom Bracket Shimano SM-BB71-41A / shell 41x92mm
Pedals Shimano PD-M520 Clipless pedal
Rear Derailleur Shimano XT RD-M786 SGS Shadow Plus
Chain Shimano CN-HG74
Front Derailleur Shimano SLX FD-M670-E / DM
Shifter Pods Shimano SLX SL-M670-I
Handlebar Syncros FL1.5 Tbar Alloy 7050 D.B. / T shape Flat / 9° / 700mm
Stem Syncros TR1.5
Grips Syncros Pro lockon grips
Brakes Shimano SLX BR-M676 Disc 180/F and 180/R mm SM-RT66 IT Rotor
Hubs Syncros TR 2.5 650b CL made by DT Swiss
Spokes DT Swiss Super Comp black
Rim Syncros / DT Swiss TR 2.5 27.5''/650b 28 H
Tires Schwalbe Nobby Nic EVO Snake Skin 27.5 (650b) x 2.25
Seat Syncros TR2.0 / CROM rails
Seatpost Syncros FL1.5 / 31.6mm
Scott Genius 720 Photo Ian Hylands




Riding the Genius 720

  The Genius 720 didn't have any trouble making its way down the steep rock rolls we found in Sedona.

On level and rolling terrain, the Genius' geometry put us in a relaxed and upright position that could be maintained for hours on end, with the sloping toptube providing enough clearance for maneuvering the bike when the trails turned technical. We did end up installing a RockShox Reverb dropper post and a slightly shorter stem on the Genius to make our time on Sedona's rolling terrain even more fun.


  There was a bit of a learning curve when trying to find the perfect climbing position. Remaining seated seemed to have better results than an out of the saddle approach.

Climbing

Finding the perfect climbing position on the Genius 720 proved to be more of a challenge than expected. The sweet spot, that point of optimum traction, could be elusive at times, causing us to spin out or lose forward momentum on more than one occasion. It was most noticeable when climbing out of the saddle – if we switched the TwinLoc remote into Traction mode and stayed seated the climbing performance improved. The geometry numbers of the Genius 720 are very similar to other bikes in this class: a 67.7 degree head angle, 17.3 inch chain stays, and a 73.8 degree seat tube angle, but there was some combination of elements that were working together to make the ideal climbing position hard to find.

It's worth mentioning the weight of the Genius at this time. With pedals and the RockShox Reverb dropper post installed, the bike weighed in at 31.6 pounds, which was more than we expected, especially considering the Genius 720 has a carbon front triangle and a fairly light build kit. A few years ago a 150mm trail bike at this weight would have been heralded as 'the next big thing', but the trail bike category has become extremely competitive, with a number of companies offering bikes with similar amounts of travel at lower weights.

After the initial learning curve, we came to terms with the Genius' climbing manners, and began spending more time seated when climbing rather than our preferred out of the saddle climbing position. This worked, and we were able to make our way up several technical rock sections that had stymied us on other rides. The 650B wheels didn't seem to climb any better than their 26” counterparts – there wasn't that feeling of the tires spanning the distance between obstacles that 29” wheels provide.

  While not as plush as other bikes in this category, the Genius behaved well on the descents, especially when the speeds increased.

Descending

The Genius 720 was well-mannered and predictable when descending in both travel modes, although we never felt like we were getting the full amount of travel, despite the o-ring on the rear shock telling us otherwise This was particularly noticeable when riding through extended sections of rough terrain. We experimented with different air pressures, but were never able to make the Nude2 rear shock feel as plush as we'd have liked. Towards the end of our time aboard the Genius, the shock started to make a horrendous squeaking noise when it was switched into Traction mode. The noise would go away after cycling the shock a few times, but it would return the next time we switched from Descend to Traction mode. We spoke with Scott, and they attributed this issue to incorrect cable tension between the TwinLoc remote and the shock. There are marks on the pulley which assist in dialing in the proper tension to ensure the shock functions properly - adjusting the bike's cable tension would likely have remedied the noise we experienced.

It was easy to forget to switch the TwinLoc lever into long travel mode, but luckily the bike handled well in both settings. The shorter travel setting actually felt better in some instances – the stiffer suspension and higher ride height made the bike feel snappier and quicker in the turns. While some bikes have a playful quality to them, encouraging the rider to pop off every possible trail feature, the Genius 720 has a serious feel to it. It gets the job done, but it didn't inspire us to get sideways or to double up trailside features. The Genius will get airborne, and handles well in the air, but it does take some coaxing to get the wheels to leave the ground. At higher speeds the bike shook off some of its serious demeanor, and felt more nimble and easier to whip around. One of our test tracks had a section of sweeping, bermed corners that dove in and out of small gullies. This was where the Genius felt most at home, traveling at high speeds on terrain that wasn't overly technical, but that required a lot of bike movement – quick uphills, followed by equally quick downhills.


Ride Notes

• The Fox 34 was a smooth operator from the start, and the extra stiffness of the larger diameter stanchions was appreciated when cornering through rocky terrain. We rarely used the TALAS feature, preferring how the bike felt in the longer travel mode.

• We mention it in nearly every review, but that's because bikes are still being spec'd with narrow handlebars, like the 700mm bars on the Genius 720. It's easy enough to shorten a handlebar, but lengthening one? Not so easy. A pair of wide bars would be an excellent addition to the Genius.

• Shimano's SLX brakes worked flawlessly throughout the test. Even after a hard crash that had the brake levers dragging over solid rock, they continued operate perfectly.

• Schwalbe's Nobby Nic tires weren't the best choice for the Sedona slickrock. The tall side knobs had a tendency to buckle, especially on off-camber terrain, causing the wheel to slide. On softer terrain it seems like they would be a decent performer, with plenty of room between the knobs to shed mud, but they had a bit too much side knob for the desert rock riding.


Pinkbike's Take:
bigquotesScott has packed a veritable Swiss Army knife's worth of features into the Genius 720. We're not sure where the little toothpick is, but we have no doubt it's mounted somewhere on the handlebars. All joking aside, the Genius 720 is a versatile bike that can go from 150mm of travel to 100 with the push of a lever. Technically savvy riders that aren't daunted by the array of controls on the Genius will find themselves switching travel modes multiple times throughout a ride, dialing in the right setting to match the terrain. While we appreciate the time and effort that has gone into developing the TwinLoc system, in reality it seems the bike would perform better with a Fox CTD rear shock. Plus, for those who love their levers, Fox makes a remote lever that works in a manner similar to the TwinLoc lever. Better rear suspension and a bit of a diet could wake the Genius from its slumber, turning it into the trail-slaying bike we wanted it to be. As it is, the Genius 720 never came alive for us, remaining a capable, yet subdued trail bike whose mild manners left us wanting a more lively ride. - Mike Kazimer
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166 Comments

  • + 70
 So it's not plush, despite the bigger wheels smoothing things out. It's also not poppy or playful despite its firm ride. And it feels like it's not using all its travel despite regularly using the full 150mm. It's also heavy for a carbon trail bike. Sounds like a fun ride....not. It isn't what id buy for my next bike but I'm sure that pinkbike just saved somebody somewhere some money!
  • + 1
 Part of the problem is the Fox 34 forks are pigs... they're 4 1/2 pounds for what Rockshox manages to do for less weight and with better performance, and the Scott rear shocks have historically been valved firmer. For next season (2014) Fox has announced a 140mm travel 650B fork built around the 32mm stanchion platform. It got reviewed on mtbr yesterday. They basically cut a pound out of the fork weight compared to what they offered this year.
  • + 1
 Looks like xfusion makes the best 650b fork.
  • + 10
 Not sold on the bike, but totally sold on that trail--great photos; make me want to ride!
  • + 4
 FWIW I thought Mike was being kind in the review. That thing did not feel plush at all when I took it for a spin in North Van trails. Different strokes for different folks. I like firm suspension setups generally but the Genius being 150mm I thought it rode alarmingly hardtail'ish. Perhaps showing the race-oriented bias.
  • + 6
 as far as a 34 being a pig it's almost a pound lighter than my pushed 36. I trhink it is an awesome fork and the weight of this bike falls elsewhere. I also disslike the travel switch. It has no use for me, as I don't use propedals or other travel reductions on my shox.
  • + 2
 The Genius will take a bunch of pressure fettling to get it feeling like any another bike.. but, I see firmer as a good thing on this when you consider the pedal up-rip down possibilities of this bike.
Lee, what bike did you ride? the US demo that came up to BC for Crankworx? Did you take time to set the shock pressure? Or was your first ride like mine.. uber excited to get out on a fancy newfangled 650b bike and neglect to spend any time preparing it? - my bad.. still enjoyed it though.
I put 3 rides on that large demo, 3rd ride and some work setting pressures, it was dialled, not 'plush' like my Spark's Nude2 can be, but dialled.
  • + 2
 The US demo. I set the rear shock sag. Played with it on trail. Played with it more. Felt like something Geoff K would love. But then he's 3x the man I am. Did not feel the love
  • + 2
 Glad that scott got away from that gay ass pull shock...
  • + 1
 @leelau..Geoff K hey, i used to live close to him in Courtenay, wonder what he thinks of the 650B's..as for myself still convinced by the 26'' im riding
  • + 2
 Speaking of the fork, does anyone know what it is that's sticking out the bottom of the fork crown? The blue thing: as seen here: www.pinkbike.com/photo/9038407
[Reply]
  • + 42
 What was wrong with 26" again?
  • + 7
 Great question!
  • + 16
 It's not "efficient" enough. Apparently that is more important than the fun factor that is best delivered by the good old 26 inched wheels.
  • + 22
 And the other thing, companies couldn't invent anything revolutionary (that would keep the prices up), so they thought of reinventing the wheel... literally.
  • + 8
 They require the rider to actually have some skill to get the most out of them. Not sure how that would be considered a fault.
  • + 0
 This wheelsize isn't new. Its just being brought to North America, and the tire/rim options are being brought up to modern standards. Nothing reinvented here at all.
  • + 3
 That's what many don't understand, those "modern standards". I know 650B existed more than 15 years ago, but why the hype? It's just an inch and a bit bigger? What was wrong with 26 in the first place?
  • + 7
 Like them or not, 650B wheeled bikes are here to stay. Pinkbike isn't opposed to any wheel size, which is why you'll see a variety of bikes with all wheel sizes reviewed. Mountain biking has always been about innovation and experimentation, and it's impossible to turn a blind eye to the number of 650B bikes being released. There's no evil plot, no government conspiracy to take your 26" wheels away - it just happens that this season a number of companies decided to try out the in-between wheel size. I'm a huge fan of 26" wheels, but there a number of bikes with other size wheels that are a ripping good time as well. It's all about shredding trail and having the most fun possible - in the grand scheme of things wheel size is a miniscule detail. After a few hours on the trail it doesn't matter at all.

That being said, there are a couple of 26" inch wheeled all-mountain bikes currently being tested in the mud and snow - stay tuned for the reviews over the next few months.
  • + 1
 If other wheel sizes aparaissent is simply to boost sales of new bicycles. Certain brands and certain disciple, 29 inches did not work commercially. So they ratrappent with 27.5 "to limit the damage. And yes, it makes more sense to use a novelty (the 27.5") to counter another new (29 "). Because the 26" is not again and could not cope with the weight 29 ". (maybe lowering rates 26" but I do not think the big builders wanted lower margin! both prices remain high as people buy! !).
In the past, I was vendeur.Dans sale, we all fesait to highlight the novelty, because it is an opportunity to increase turnovers. I left this area for the purpose of selling it to a max figure (I was even asked to lie to people!) even if the bike is not suitable for clients.
With "pseudo-new" it really takes people for fools, because nothing concrete and prices still rising.
Vive consumer society!!
  • + 1
 I forgot: wheel size has nothing to do with the size of the people and practice. Wheel size, it is only a matter of sensations.
  • + 4
 Ask your GF how much an inch matters. This bike's issues are not wheel size-based, but bike-based. The bike sucks with ANY size wheel.
  • + 5
 @slash: the problem with 26" is that it was designed for beach cruisers in California. The actual off troad wheel size used in europe was the 650b, but limited supply in the states at the advent of the MTB development prevented the size from being the standard. If there wasn't a supply problem, we would not be using 26" at all. This is simply a course correction now.
  • - 2
 Hm... 650B Hype cycle goes towards the summit of inflated expectations. Peer group pressure is about to blow, to send 29ers to the trough of disillusionment. 650B will finaly get what was taken from it... Or? Is it too similar to 26" because effective diameter is larger by only half of an inch, 12,5mm if you like... frame manufacturers already release their babies with replacable drop-outs, fork manufacturers need to raise their arches only a tiny bit and they will satisfy both luddites and ekhem! The modern visionares with one fork model. Raised forks are nothung wrong aren't they? We all like slack head angles! No, 650B has a highly uncertain future, unlike 29ers which are so different showing obvious advantages in certain situations, that they are about to kick it big time and reign in their long range kingdoms. Whats the colour between black and white? Grey! But if you add too much bullshit it might get a tint of... beige.

Mnah, when is 650A and 650C coming?
  • + 4
 Naw! I'll stick with my 25.4" instead.
  • + 3
 There's WAKIdweeb spouting off again with more lies and myths just to get some cheap props from the don't-know-any-betters, like any good troll, and making protour seem downright pleasant in comparison.

#1 The effective diameter comparison depends on the tire width because that effects the casing size, but the rims being 1" larger (than what 26" balloon tires use)means for an equal width, you're never going to have less than 1" increase in diameter of tire. Now if he'd said "effective radius" he'd be right... assuming he even understood the difference, which its clear, he doesn't. Hell, he could even get the math of conversion of inches to mm correct. It takes 8 seconds to ask the internet how many mm in 1" (25.4) if you don't know.

#2 Modern 650B mountain bikes as most PB members would think of them (suspension, disc brakes, etc) didn't exist at all until 2007 because no company was offering tires for it any longer, then Kirk Pacenti comes along and orders a production run of tires made and the snowball took off down the hill. Within a year, dozens of riders are building their own bikes around Kirk's tires and initially Velocity Blunt rims onto whatever compatible frames & forks they could find. Within 2 years and fork companies are stepping up to the plate and the first mid-size bike brand is jumping into the action with production models (haro). Another year and Jamis and KHS join the fray, and Kenda and WTB and Schwalbe and IRD all have tire alternatives and we're getting full suspension bikes also. At five years, the tires have won two silver medals at the olmpics, placed 3rd in the redbull rampage, and won the XC world championship and XC World Cup overall titles. That isn't disillusionment, nor is it peer pressure, nor is it some beige in-between colour. Those are facts. 29ers took two to three times as long to get to that stage of development and still haven't done anything like the redbull results in the gravity fields.
  • + 6
 dee eight, no reason to get so upset that other people don't always agree with you. Personal attacks never help you get your point across, valid or not. Open up your mind, and stop spreading hate. We're all rider's here. 650b is not a bad thing, it's hard to argue against it. People have to make up their minds on what they want, not what other people force down their throats. It has taken a while for 29er's to get the level that they are now, but of course they did as it's a much bigger size than 26, unlike 650b. I think that we can agree that everyone should actually ride the best bike's available in all wheel sizes on legit trails to make a decision rather than spouting out misconceptions. My experience has been very positive on a 650b Intense Carbine, however it was because I couldn't really tell much of a difference between 650b and 26. I felt that the game changer for me was when I rode a legit 29er, made for someone like me. I just wish that they accelerated a little faster. I have downhill runs in pumping through my blood, and just for you dee eight, I won't bring up the brand and model because I know that you don't like the brand that I'm referring to. I like all the different wheel sizes when they are on the right bike. Different strokes for different folks. Again, I'm not hating on 650b, I'm stoked to ride other 650b bikes that are made specifically for that size. It just so happens that this review does not support the idea that this bike is very well executed. It's not because the fork is a quarter of a pound more than a 32mm fork. The market is asking for a 34, not a 32. I agree that the Revelation is a very capable fork, but that's not the issue here. Scott makes very good quality bikes, but it seems that they may have missed the mark on this in particular bike. Cheer's! Keep it pinned!
  • + 0
 @dualsuspensiondave.... as to personal attacks against WAKIdweeb... put it this way, I actually resorted to usinge the BLOCK A MEMBER feature on him, to cut out the PM whines from him. But if what I wrote is what you think of as a personal attack, your standards are too low.

As to my not liking specialized, its not the bikes that's the problem, its how the brand is run. They cheat, they lie, they steal. I see no reason to support them when they behave like that. In many ways, they're the big-oil of the bicycle world. Its going to become amusing in a year when the horst-link patent expires in the USA and all the euro brands that employ it, suddenly arrive in the USA marketplace and start stealing market share from them in a big way. Companies like Ghost, Cube, Lappierre, and more.

As to what the market is asking for... for forks and parts and bikes... the AM market might be asking for 34s, but the XC market is not, and its the XC market that drove the 650B development to where it is at now. But even in the AM market, Fox forks are porky compared to other makes. And as is often reported, they either have problems achieving full travel, or on rare occassions, they blow thru their travel. Now since the guts to the forks are pretty much identical, part wise... this comes down to a fundamental issue of quality control in the manufacturing end, and Fox has nobody to blame for that but themselves.
  • - 1
 Oh poor Kristan got upset after getting three messages in total and blocked me, because he does not like to solve private issues privateky he needs to go to the public, oooo... Poor you. You can't deal with someone not liking your 650B bike? Because you love it so much, mmmm

No I don't use much informaton, it is you who rely on it, so I am not misinformed. All I need is a diameter on the wheel - then I use a thing called thinking and imagination to judge what works, can work and what's an utter bullshit. People or Market as you call it - is not asking for anything, companies don't do much polls, they design something and market it, inflate needs and expectations - it is 99% proactive. Reactive design and manufacture can happen in no less than 3,4 years when people got familiar with the product, so we can talk about actual market demand for 650B earliest in 2016 you economy-illiterate oik. Market demand, you idiot... yea billy sits at home and writes e-mails to companies to revive a wheel size, or Bobby thinks, hmmm, wouldn't 35mm bar clamp be great? I got to call Easton!

As in PM: Google the term useful idiot. There is even a BBC program about such personality. You fit big time!
  • + 1
 And why would bike in 700 or 650b? Why these two sizes on other bikes (Road, CX etc etc ...) and why have the same size wheels as other practices? Now thanks to the other sizes we apeercois the great qualities of the 26 ".
  • + 2
 2nd question: why are BMX 20 "and why no other existing size wheels in BMX, 24" and 26 ", never replaced the 20"?
  • - 1
 GBvip37 - some people simply lack imagination, skill and strength, they believe that anything marketed lately will make them faster. They completely lack perspective, they can only read miles of text and analyze whether it will give something to them or not, but since they have little skill and experience in that skill, they have nothing to relate to. They can just rely on the next big thing. For instance some people here use 2.1 tyres on his 650b wheels and preach advantages of increased wheel size to people on 2.5" wide 26". Or like some testers on Pinkbike say that 275 give more predictable feel in loosecorners - you might like to get a wider handlebar my friend, because the increased feedback comes from increase arm of the force, not magic blessing of hype. And since you don't pay for this cycle fashion show, then some should filter information a bit...

Being objective is usualy reserved to people who can think and really know what they are talking about. Making a big deal out of tiny advantage in tiny area of use is truly showing a finger up while having marketing penis in their mouth.

Wake the f*ck up...
  • + 1
 Waki it's not "magic blessing of hype", it's science. An increased contact patch always will have the potential for more traction, that is a fact. Marketing is definitely there, however science is as well. Let people buy what they want to.
  • + 1
 @ Waki- In the past, I thought you added a lot to the discussions. On this topic you have become obsessed it seems. You claim to know that this wheel is simply a scam, yet you don't have any real experience with it. Listing the difference in mm is rediculous. 10mm shorter on a stem changes a bike, 1" in bar width changes things. 5mm in crank length too. A 2.25" tire feels different from a 2.5" tire. A 21mm rim is different from a 24mm rim etc.We use small differences to tune out bikes all the time. The 650b change is noticeable, and beneficial.
  • + 2
 Waki: I agree 100% your way, the manufacturers do not know what invented. All that is fundamental to the bike already exists. But for us to consume more, they create new pseud-for example, the conical pivot.Here is an article showing why the 29 develops: it is simple relations, some sales bike!
www.bikekulture-mag.com/V2/26-27-5-VS-29-part-II-L-avis-de.html
  • + 2
 Willie1: the 27.5" allows to have at least two studs + in soil. This does not make a difference with a 26 ", only the pilot will this difference.So in the end all stay 26 with all avantges that has the 26 ".
  • + 1
 ya WAKi thinks it's a scam and we are all potheads. who cares. back on topic.
  • + 1
 Willie - I never said it is a scam or at least I have never meant it. It is just another size of anything on a bike. I only mean that it is completely unnecessary. And science has very little to say in a sport with so many variables. Larger contact patch - sure! Just as more inertia which is a bad thing. Smaller angle of attack? Sure - how about it is harder to pick that bike up into the air? 24" wheel has many advantages over 26". Introducing or reviving new sizes is just making us pay more for a simple thing that bike is and generates lots of scrap. How much do you think costs a night at the hotel in Sedona for a journalist? You would be surprised how many of what kind of people get paid to come to such press camps, having a world cup team is no match to such expenses.

Shall I applaud when Fox34 gets 17,5mm axle? Nothing wrong with that?

It's a cheap way for them to "innovate", I'd prefer them to sit more on stuff like dropper posts, gearboxes, cleaner production or bringing production back home, so they make money and people get jobs.

So, 2015 - gearbox or 650C?
  • + 1
 And why not lower prices to boost sales of bicycles, such as through a scrappage scheme? It also is as innovative as to create pseudo-standards almost useless!
  • + 1
 Waki, the gearbox is a great idea, but it is a tough sell to people who are weight conscious. Look at the number of so called freeriders complaining about the extra weight of a 650b wheel.

650c is smaller than 650b. 650c is the same outside diameter as a 26" offroad tire, with a road tire mounted. Basically the same thing. 26"=559mm + 2"(50.8mm) tire, 650c is 571mm + 23mm tire. So assuming a basically round tire for simplicity, the diameters are 609.8mm or 594mm. Approximately 16mm in diameter difference. When tires were 1.5-1.75", they were basically the same size. The reason for the 650b was using the same outside diameter as a road wheel/tire, with larger rubber for off road use. I don't feel like doing the math for you. Its easy to look up if you like.
  • + 1
 Under the french tire sizing code terminology... the number was the nominal diameter of the inflated tire in millimeters and the letter represented the tire width (A is the narrowest, C was the widest). 650A, 650B and 650C tires were all supposed to be about 650mm diameter, but the widths varied. 700A thru C same thing. The problem is, other tire makers took the rim bead seat diameters of those wheels that supported those original tire sizes, and began making other widths of tires that ignored the origins of the codes. That's why now today, we have 650C tires being smaller than 650B tires (even the narrow 650B models offered today are larger in diameter than what is available for 650C).
  • + 2
 The problem with 26 inch wheeled bikes is that they are 11% lighter than 29 inch wheels and 5% lighter than 650 b and all that extra lightness comes with extra stiffness and they are also stronger. No body wants a lighter stiffer stronger bike otherwise they would go to 24 inch wheels and no one would win the pissing contest of who's is bigger.
  • + 1
 GBvip37, which new 29er's, and 650b bikes have you ridden? Waki, how about you?
  • + 1
 I never liked the 29 "on paper, I tried on the ground, ca worthless! Pataud, not handy, inertia carried me at every turn, and hard to revive demand + commitment bicycles and gives horrible. 650 B the same is not interested in me, I do not see the interest. There are only 26 that attracts me and is more fun to drive. ago Less of inertia, the better it is for the general behavior of the bike.
  • + 0
 dave: I haven't ridden any 650B bike and I don't think I ever will, as I tend to ride my 26" bikes with 2,5" tyres for XC, so mhm, 6mm larger radius won't reveal much to me isn't it? The true difference in wheel sizes is what happens below the axle so we talk radius not diameter and that for 650B bike is half of an inch increase over 26" comparing to almost 1,5" (33mm) increase on a 29er bike which is a much more serious piece of trail eating jaws. All above the axle is an unwelcome cockpit and CoG raiser. Now take your thumb and pointing finger, and spread them for 12,5mm then for 33mm. You don't need science all the time, trusting your feel and instinct can be very didactic... just like weighing 70g in your hand and asking yourself whether it is worth to sell SLX crankarms to buy SIXC ones.

In my very own opinion (which is similar to the one of some big heads in MTB skill coaching) people should not ride tyres smaller than 26x2.25" if they are not racing XC or Marathon. For grip and cushioning. At the same time tyres bigger than 2.25" on larger diameter start to provide too much innertia. Sure -you can go thin on sidewalls but that compromises stability of the tyre in the corners and on the loose rocks. That's my whole point of utter pointlessness of 650B wheel size - TOO LITTLE DIFFERENCE

I tried Spec Epic 29 and own Niner EMD love'em! But I treat is as a better way to take long rides to see nature. I applaud the uphill grip and crusing speed. Still, for short intense rippage, 26" is simply more rewarding and allowing for more creativity to bake different cakes from what trail throws at you. Also talking feelings, you are fast on a 29er, yes... on the clock. Feelings wise - things feel slower. TOO MUCH SCIENCE - wake up, absorb the world with your senses, not only eyes reading numbers...
  • + 1
 Also if I was to join an XC race, I would not think for a second whether to take 29er or 26er. But for me racing is for the fun of competing, not riding, and if I can get something that has an aobvious advantage over something else, I take it anytime. Bike for fun - 26" wheels 2.4" tyres, with big thread for late braking and cornering hedonism, relaxed geo, lots of travel, wide bars, flat pedals. Bike for work: max100mm travel, 29"x2.1" small knobs front, semislick back, race geo, semi-narrow bars, clipless.

Will 275 be better on Enduro racing? Might be, but such a tiny bit of advantage it will be random as hell. Both are here to stay, but none will dominate, I am almost certain of it. I'd rather say it will be much bigger discussion whether to take a 29er or not. I think Enduro in terms of bike tech will be mostly about reliability, then light weight, and then at the end of the black tunnel - everything else. If there will be a proof ((I doubt it) that 650B provides better puncture resistance, then yea, that will be a huuuuge point.

But bigger wheel means bigger rotating mass at larger arm of the force (inertia), even in WRC - late braking and acceleration out of the corners is everything. That's why DH might never pick it up. There is just too much to the suspension to take the job of bumps and keep those wheels down. In XC - uphills and average speed away from the corners are everything, downhills in XC is just dressing the cake - make sure your sugar topping is fine so you don't crash and if you can put a cherry up there - good for you! But you better make sure the the dough and filling are right. I think way too many MTBers treat their sport like F1, raw data, little variables, lab tsts - and sorry it is road racing that gets closest to that.
  • + 0
 And there goes WAKIdweeb again, spouting off like he's an expert on all things physical and scientific with the bicycle universe, while dropping this little fact...

"dave: I haven't ridden any 650B bike and I don't think I ever will"

So.... absolutely zero actual experience with the topic of discussion. Anyone who reads beyond this with any of his messages about 650B might as well be watching pro-wrestling, you know the outcome is pre-determined and its just as meaningless to the real world. Not even worth debunking his pseudo-science at this point, people who are gullible will positive prop him anyway, and people who aren't, are in the minority here apparently.
  • + 2
 I saw butt sex on the internet once... on some later occasion I've been told it's good for me... yet I can visualize pros and cons without trying it and have no intention of going there...
  • + 0
 And the topic has just jumped the shark as WAKIdweeb has gone where no one, not even protour, has gone before....
  • + 1
 I'm 6-8 milimeters away from knowing exactly how 650B feels like on the trail, so close to the truth... so far for deeeight! I will cut off the equivalent part of my Waldo if you respect my argument that 26" and 650B are nearly identical!
  • + 0
 You fail to grasp the fact that nearly identical is NOT identical... the weight difference between a 26" tire and 650B tire, of the same model/size need not be the huge amount you'd like the sheep to believe it is. Schwalbe makes the Racing Ralph in 26, 650B and 29er formats and the weight spread from the 26 to 29" versions is only 3 ounces. The size difference is 12mm in radius from the 26er to the 650B versions and 21mm from the 650B to the 29er... none of this 6-8mm crap you keep spewing... the only way you're going to get such a narrow difference is comparing a 26" tire used for AM riding to the narrowest possible XC riding 650B. So...you'd want people believe the differences are smaller in size than they are, and the weight differences are higher, just to get people to listen to someone with ZERO actual riding experience on the wheels, over people with hundreds of hours of riding experience on them ?!

The only thing I respect about you is that you're a perfectly example of a internet forum troll.
  • + 0
 So now you are arguing that I am 4mm of the truth? khehe - you still don't get it that Im just playing with you, because everywhere there is a notion of 650B you jump in and educate everyone, and you type in pretty much the same damn thing.

Oh I wish I had better things to do... but I love to ruin it for you Big Grin And f*ck off from Protour, you ain't better by any mean.

So... an useful idiot, you and the next big thing, 650B in that respect - is first of all a person who considers himself as a intelectual, not stupid at all, in fact he isn't, he usualy truly is more intelligent or at least knowledgeable than average. However what makes him weak and therefore easy to exploit as a puppet to propagate of certain ideas is that he is easy to flatter and bribe (paid testing?). You see what makes us different is that being anti 650B, XX1 or anything gives me absolutely nothing - makes me independent. You on the other hand might get benefits from doing it, so you are way more likely to be biased.

I love this quote: "Some ideas are so stupid that only an intelectual might find them interesting..."

Where's the relevance - I don't knooooo - just please reply. You're the last thing I have!
  • + 1
 My dear Deelight , you may well talk about a subject without trying! Yes, it can be filled on the net and by many other means as people who tried to make a avis.Faut not forget that the laws of physics apply in ATV, unless the manufacturers use quantum physics! But the problem, at least in France, in magazines, the disadvantages of a product we do not see very little revealed at worst minimized! Every novelty is top notch and we need it to run properly! Finally the same address for more than 5 years.

Waki: worry my friend, we lost Deeight and company can not find them anymore, too lobomotisés by marketing discourse with blinding joile make a brainwashing the way! This proves that the manufacturers are well educated in their new customer, as they sell them anything easier!
  • + 1
 Ya know GBvip37...given that 650B is a french invented tire size... you should be more supportive of its adoption and wider acceptance in europe than that upstart renaming of 700C as 29er was. BUT... of course it was a swiss rider who beat the best the french cycling world could offer up this year in XC racing, on a french tire size no less, at the world championships AND six of the world cup races... so maybe its just a case of tire envy that's keeping you from accepting what thousands already know to be true... 650B is just better,.
  • + 0
 Oh the "watch what PROs have" ball has been played! Did you get that idea from Trek poster: World's fastest riders choose Trek? I appreciate your qualitative method of analyzing scientific (?) data, but if we were to go for quantitive... Now, off course questions like "what do pros use?" , "what does this technology do for them?" are completely irrelevant questions because a potential buyer is miles behind them in mental and physical development. So even if 650B does something so you come home a minute earlier or finish race 123rd instead of 125th - nobody cares, you are a slow woose, who cares what you ride? If you want to be faster, you better get a good MTB specific training program and hit the gym with it. In that way you will rock a 26" HT with centilevers way faster and with more style than sub 20lbs race rig of Nino Schurter.

Well, I played that ball so many times that I return it again with precision of Novak Djokovic at 100mph - .... Wait for it.... Wait for it.... Hmmm... Ahmmmmmmm....

You're wrooong!
  • - 1
 Merco Waki, you said it all. Smile Say thanks to Schurter beat Absalon 650B is pure bullshit! It is simply a matter of training. And what would happen if Schurter rolling on the 26 "? Even result.After that the 650B is europpéen, I have nothing to waxing, this size does not attract me at all! The VTTc'est with 26 "wheels. LE26 I love" and nothing in the world I quiterrait 26 ".Deeight like roof which seems to impose a while everyone says me why the wheels are road cx 700 and other bikes are 650? And why should do the same mountain bike?
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns & @deeeight,

Your both being trolls.

Go ride ya bikes; instead of trolling each other over stupid wheel sizes ....

Seriously!
  • + 2
 Trolls post information that is not verifiable to start arguments. I only see one troll hee, other than you mothy.
  • + 1
 The only thing that is verifiable here is that you two suck at riding and rely on equipment, then you can't think for yourselves and you rely on information provided by someone else. Two beige pieces of a blue colour coded brains with overgrown left side. I am sure that gives you two, extremely good luck in communicating with women, and you get along greatly with spiritual people. I bet people of likes of George Bernard Shaw are your ideleogical role models. If you have any ideological model - which might be problematic when being so stuck in the numbers and facts. Done here - thank you for your utter ignorance, go count something. And send my deepest apologies to your ladies if you have any
  • + 1
 I don't remember riding with you ever Waki. I guess that doesn't matter.
  • + 1
 26'' or 650b it was fun in the end... www.pinkbike.com/photo/9179854
[Reply]
  • + 17
 I rode one of these at a Demo day a while back and was initially impressed. The twinlock system worked very well, the bike was nice and stiff and seemed pretty fast. However, after riding a few other bikes throughout the day a few things became apparent. 1) As good as the scott is, the DT shock didn't feel as smooth as the fox rp2 shocks on other bikes that I rode, meaning it didn't descend as quickly as 26'rs that I rode with 150mm of travel. 2) Climbing the bike was pretty good, but I attribute this mainly to the twinlock system allowing you to lock out quickly on the climbs.

In short, most of the bikes perceived advantages emanate from the twinlock system, and were you to remove that from the bike and then compare it to other similar rides I believe it would't hold on the descents or be any better on the climbs. Fit a remote lockout such as fox's CTD system to another bike and it would do exactly the same thing. The suspension seems to be designed around the twinlock remote, using it to overcome any short falls of the suspension design instead of engineering it out a different way. If you like covering up the design faults with a lockout, and are willing to use it, then it is just fine. If you want to ride without having to hit a lockout every time a climb approaches to make the bike climb properly like other bikes do without the lockout, then look elsewhere.
[Reply]
  • + 19
 31.6 pounds? Oink oink oink...
  • + 11
 I wonder if that has anything to do with the SEVEN "lengths of housing originating at the handlebars." Oh, and with that many controls I'd have to be a GENIUS to ride this bike.
  • + 3
 It's really not that much more than your average mountain bike. A lot of bikes are coming with a remote lock out front shock. Two gear cables plus two brake cables plus a dropper post cable and a remote lockout for the front shock. Same as the genius when it's stock standard.
  • + 1
 Thats like my tracer2
  • + 1
 Bolmaing, I agree it has everything you want. 30 lbs isn't great but it's not horrible either.
  • + 2
 My transition bandit 29 weighs exactly that much with more weight in the allow frame, wheels and tires. I Dont think the Scott is a very impressive weight for what it is. Didn't the old carbon framed Scott Ransoms weigh about that much?
  • + 2
 The Scott Genius 700SL is £6699 as I recall from the MBUK review, a full carbon frame, and 26.2 pounds without pedals. Shaving weight off bicycles doesn't come cheaply when you're not patient and custom building, or getting stuff at prodeal prices. But 26 pounds range for an 150mm travel AM bike is exceptionally light, and it comes with an exceptionally high price tag. In this case PB tested a model that was half that price and people are complaining its 5 pounds heavier ?!?
  • + 2
 deeeight, people are not complaining about the weight of this Genius 720 in comparison to the £6699 (about $10,200 USD) 700SL. They, along with me, find that weight to be unacceptable for a $4,700 bike. There are a whole slew of bikes that would be better choices if a travel/weight/price comparison were done. Panaphonic's point is valid: where the heck is the weight in this thing coming from? My Sinister Gruitr with a 5.25 lb. Marzocchi 55 fork and Stan's sealant IN MY TUBES weighs the same as this thing, and if my bike were new it'd be about a $2,500 build.
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  • + 14
 I find the lack of 26'' bikes reviewed disturbing
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  • + 10
 Yawn...another 650b gets pushed by PB....its getting lame already
  • - 3
 Well magazines review what's submitted to them... if the manufacturers stop sending them whatever category item YOU want tested, its probably because the market for that is dwindling and brands are not in business to lose money. You want something else reviewed, go and buy one and send it into pinkbike for them to review it.
  • + 4
 Buying before a review...good idea. Being he is a pinkbike fan an reader, maybe the writers and photographers SHOULD be taking note of his complaints...granted you cant please anyone but being we ARE the market MAYBE he wants to see certain products tested by the hot shots at PB. So instead of sitting and dismissing every complaint, take notes instead of getting defense DEE
  • + 1
 I think it's hilarious how many guys who ride 26 ers have such a problem with the 650b. Lol it's annoying plain and simple. It's a wheel size.....1.5 inch difference, get over it.
  • + 11
 I have no problem with 650b, but that doesn't mean I want to get it shoved down my throat. Its fine if you do a 650b review, but do some 26" reviews too!
  • + 5
 Maybe the 26" lovers need to start up their own website. They can exclude 10 speed, 11 speed, carbon, and all other wheelsizes. In 5 years, they can change the name from 26"Action to Retrobike Action.
  • + 7
 Just like in our Product Picks section, there will be bikes that you are interested in and some you are not into, same goes for the parts mix that we get to test and tell you about. It's winter time - not a lot of DH on the go, but we are able to get out and ride trail bikes - 26, 650B and 29ers, so the current reviews will be a mix of the 3 wheel sizes found in today's market.
  • + 1
 @yorntjefreerider HA you said it!!! "I wish people would stop trying to ram their 27.5" down my throat!" You know what I thought it was ridiculous with 29" but seriously no one is THAT gifted... I like to think Pink Bike is Safe For Work. Let's try and keep it that way...

BTW options are great. Give your 26" horn blowing a rest...
  • + 1
 Can a guy who rides a 26 be friends with a guy who rides a 27.5?
  • + 2
 You do not more want to see 27.5 and 29 in magazines? It is simple, buy no more magazine which proposes these 2 sizes of wheels. Needs not to forget that one to be able to him(it) not buy and so to influence on decisions of magazines to see memes manufacturers!
The Power does not belong to them!
  • + 0
 A 650b guy can be friends with everyone. The 26" guys seem to get their shit in a knot when anything other than what they want is available or reviewed.
  • + 0
 If goldilocks had been a mountain biker, she'd have chosen 650Bs. Its not too big, its not too small, its just right.
  • + 0
 The manufacturers use focus groups, market trends, and test rider feedback to design and develop new products. Maybe, just maybe the people opposed to this trend are the minority, and banded together following their own herd here at Pinkbike. If the feedback received from the engineers, the test riders, the focus groups, and the trade show/dealer network was that this is a bad idea, they wouldn't invest the money in a losing idea. Considering the strength of the anti 29" zealots, and the way the 29er took over the market, shouldn't we be happy there is an option that doesn't have the drawbacks of the 29er? For most riders, the 650b will work better. For the small groups, there will still be a few 26" options, such as 24" DJ/Street bikes, or bmx cruisers have stayed around even after the failed attempt at using 24" wheels on freeride bikes for strength and maneuverability in the early to mid 2000s.
  • + 2
 Its only a winter race series in america, but Logan Binggeli just won the pro-men's Fontana DH on a 650B. Among the riders he beat, there were a few notable names including Eric Carter.

@Willie1... there's an often talked about piece in the industry that made the rounds at Interbike last fall, about a certain large known brand having a new full suspension 26" frame model all set to go to production (all the testing, R&D, prototyping had finished) and they abruptly cancelled it, much to the probable annoyance of the factory they use for production, because they'd rather eat the loss of money already spent, than be stuck with thousands of unsold bikes because the customer base clearly isn't there anymore for them.
  • + 1
 Do people who like these larger wheel sizes just not manual their bikes? Or bunny hop them for that matter? I suck enough with out having longer chain stays and more weight. I get the longer contact patch for climbing traction but, if I got all excited about climbing traction I would buy an All Wheel Drive bike instead. I've hated 26 inch wheels for being too big since I traded in my bmx. Where are these failed attempts at using 24" wheels for freeride bikes Willie1? The Big Hits had a 26" wheel up front and hardly snappy short chainstays. I love the Dobermann Le Pink but, a pivotal seat, steep head tube and short travel make it a bit of a one trick pony.
  • - 1
 Banshee and Specialized used 24" rear wheels, and they are no longer offered because they stalled out too easily, and people stopped buying them. Street and DJ bikes are still available in 24". When was the last time you saw a 24" wheel on a full size bike not intended as a jump bike?
  • + 0
 Or for kids... Remember the norco b-line ? I rebuilt and sold one to a short woman in 2011. She was five foot f#ck all in height.
  • + 1
 They don't sell the Norco b-line or Kona Stinky jnr here in Aus. I first bunny hopped and dirt jumped a POS kids FS bike I mod'ed with bmx handlebars and 3pce cranks . The steering was a bit wacky but, it went over any log you wanted with the short wheelbase by just bunny hopping at it and bouncing over. Had the longest Thompson laid back post so I could just pedal it. Never had problems with it stalling or rolling over anything like everyone claims. I want to get a used Stinky Jnr for my daughter in a few years time so maybe I'll throw some bmx cruiser bars on it just for kicks. Yes all the 24" bikes I see are jump bikes or trials bikes and over built and under suspended for what I want. Plus all the wheels you can get for 24" are either crap or overbuilt for the same reason. When I win Lotto I'll get a custom geo Nicolai with a gearbox and 24 inch wheels, 165mm travel rear, the shortest chainstays they reckon they can get clearance for. Slack HT for stability and have my own fashion not dictated by racing or what bike companies decide we should have.
[Reply]
  • + 9
 Pretty nice,keep doing great job Scott!
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  • + 7
 I really dig this bike, but I'd likely build it from the frame up with different setup.
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  • + 4
 I tried the aluminum version of this thing last weekend. Yuk. Heavy, complicated and completely uninspired handling. It was my first 650b ride, so I expected it to climb techy stuff better than my Knolly - nope. My brother was riding my Knolly, so we switched back and forth in techy spots and the Knolly (Endorphin) crushed the Scott. I'm not against 650b, but I am not a fan of the Scott Genius. I made my brother switch back after 20 minutes. Ahhhhh...
[Reply]
  • + 5
 I can't help but compare it to this 650b bike: www.cube.eu/en/full/allmountain/stereo-super-hpc-160-slt
21.9 lbs, almost 10 lbs lighter. I'm waiting for the Pinkbike review... :-D
  • + 4
 Scott $4730
Cube STEREO SUPER HPC 160 SL £3999.

The SLT that you've listed is a LOT more expensive (£6599) than the Genius, but the SL is closer to it price vise. Apart from that, it is much better spec'd, has a better suspension system (four bar) and is 2.3 kilos lighter, and still much cheaper.

I would take that Cube over the Genius any day!
  • + 1
 -Proper shock
-Comes with a dropper post
-750mm bars
-Hans Dampf instead of Nobby Nic
-Is actually full carbon (Genius has alloy rear end)
-DT Swiss wheels
-About 400 GBP more expensive.


I'd agree and say the Cube wins in everything except price. That is one hell of a bike.
  • + 1
 Still one could spare 400 GBP and buy the Cube, it's worth it!
  • + 0
 You can just order the frame yourself, unpainted from the manufacturer in china for about a grand, and then build it however you choose to, for whatever weight or price target you have.
[Reply]
  • + 8
 Intense carbine 650b =28 lbs Big Grin Baddass factor= over 9000
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Can someone one please explain to me why everyone tries to worship their bikes? in the words of Captain America "Theres only one God Ma'am and im pretty sure he doesn't dress like that" - The Avengers. Get out of the "My bike is the single best bike ever, and everyone should ride what I ride and how I ride" mentality. Why do so many people take it personally when a discussion about wheel size comes up? My bikes are 26" purely because I am poor and thats what I know. When I pass someone on my local trail riding a 29er I dont stop and laugh. I personally dont like the feel of any 29er but I have plenty of friends who claim they are heaven sent. 650b will just be another preference. If you like it, buy it. If you dont, is it really worth getting mad about? Ill make an offer to spend a day on the trail with anyone who reads this post. expect me to show up with what i can afford. Nothing more. My only rule is that you like to ride more than you like to preach your "Bike Religion" and yes im pointing fingers directly at the most notable of trolls who post on EVERY article pinkbike uploads. Take it easy guys.
[Reply]
  • + 6
 Nah way too much $$$$$ for this bike!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I saw them testing identical 26, 27.5 and 29er bikes back to back in Italy in january 2012. I was told not to take pictures, they have a very scientific way of testing with lots of riders etc, based around the scott swiss power team. For sure they made a decision based on what was best. for most riders these bikes will be good...especially their european /german markets.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Interestingly, a friend/customer of mine has asked me to help him put together one of these with XX1 and a Fox RP23. Hopefully that'll address some of the concerns in the review (weight, rear suspension quality, dozens of cables).
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I rode one of these last weekend at a demo. I have to agree that I was not incredibly impressed, especially for the pricepoint. Surprisingly, the 650b wheels seemed to take the negatives from the other wheel sizes rather than the positives. It didn't handle as well or feel as lively, and the bike was not really that much better at rolling over anything, as I ride a 26" on that trail often. It was heavy, despite the model I rode being outfitted with all XTR Components. I asked the price, and immediately thought, "Whaa?". The old genius was amazing, but the only exceptional feature of this bike was the twin-lock system, which was more convenient than astounding. Overall, unimpressed.
  • + 2
 I'm not sure the wheel size has a lot to do with it. Maybe it's just an overpriced under performing pig?
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Im not sure why big companies like Scott are pushing the 650B, when they build bikes like this which from the sounds of the review are nowhere near bikes like my 26" Mojo HD (in any respect)?

From what ive read i can see the logic behind the bigger wheel size, but when a manufacturer pushes it because the new wheel size is supposedly better (like the above bike) and then in the review it isnt.. its simply a waste of everyones time (and money) which i think this is why so many 26" people on these forums are a little peeved off.

Obviously other manufacturers may have done a better job with the new wheel size, but when a large manufacturer who has been supposedly developing 650B from the start cant even get it right it makes you wonder even more that its just another marketing ploy.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I have a Genius 60 2011 and it is lighter than this one... or maybe the same but what ever I don't have a light setup and it is aluminium... I love this bike by the way, It does it's work really good. Better than the new one.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Scott bikes seem to be dirt for the money. They are hugely expensive yet everytime i read a review the reviewers are completely underwhelmed. I dont think i have ever read a review of a scott bike where the rider said "yes, this is it. The best bike in its class". They always seem to come last in group tests in magazines.
  • + 4
 Scott Voltage!!!
  • + 1
 Scott Voltage FR. Short stays, uninterrupted seat tube, adjustable travel. Needs a Talus 180 and a dhx air 5.0 though as the only one I ever saw had a coil spring shock and a float160. I used to like the Ransom but, after reading a review of one tested with a Kona Abra Cadabra I went for another Kona. They stopped making them after that. Scott also make the only kids 20" full suspension bike from a reputable manufacturer. Not in Oz though.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Enough with the 650b who decided that this was the next necessary wheel size, all of the sudden every bike company is making them and no one has demanded them, seriously it 's not like a couple companies came out with them and people have had a chance to try them out, realized they are awesome, and demanded that they be made. In one year out of the blue every company has come out with 650b, and now the forks too. Personally I think this is a redundant wheel size, If any wheel size should be given attention it is the fat wheel, take a look around, people are modifying frames and bulding they're own full suspension fat bike frames and forks at home, yet no companies make a full suspension fat bike frame and no companies make a fork, seriously give the people what they want. I've havn't seen too many people building their own 650b full suspension frames because they absolutely have to have one. Down with 650b, bring on the fat bike revolution
  • - 1
 I've tried over the past several years, but the parts availability was limited, and expensive. It is much more cost effective now to do so.
  • + 2
 You've tried but you never did do it for what ever reason, had you gone through with it you might have a point, basically what you've said is that it is not worth the cost or effort to make your own 650 full suspension frame, take a look on most of the mountain bike forums and you will see people who are building full suspension fat bikes no matter what the cost and difficulty. This shows that there is something unique that full suspension fat bikes have to offer and that people really want them, more so than 650b, but for whatever reason the bike companies have decided to go all out with 650b. I actually have nothing against 650b as a wheel size, I've tried one and can't say i prefer to a 26" that's just my opinion, what is annoying is the sudden emergence of them, like the bike companies are telling use what we need, an not really looking at what people want. I am aware that the modifactions to a 26'' frame, to make it into a 650b are minimal, so I can't help but feel that they are coming out with this as an easy way to sell more bikes and market them as new and exciting and better than 26". Honestly I think if they had come on a little slower with this it wouldn't feel like it is being shoved down our throats. Anyway I think it is cool that you thought about building your own bike, i am currently in the process of building my own fs fat bike, I encourage anyone to build or try to build whatever kind of bike they can imagine and desire no matter what the wheel size
  • + 0
 I did get the parts last winter (2011) and had my Mojo SL in 650b trim all last year. Loved it, and will never spend another penny on a 26" wheel again.
  • + 1
 That's cool enjoy riding it that's all that matters, just want to add that I'm talking about people actually welding their own frames not putting parts together. cheers
  • + 0
 I do weld my own frames, but haven't done a FS yet. I have three gravel road bikes I am putting together now for the fire roads up at the cabin. I plan to try a FS this summer, when I take my vacation so I have full days to design and work on the geometry.
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  • + 3
 To me, Scott's "Trail/All mountain" bikes always look like super long-travel/leggy xc race bikes...
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  • + 4
 I,m waiting for 28 and 5/8 wheel size....
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  • + 0
 It appears this bike works best when ridden fast- ie. in race conditions. It isn't a trail bike, but an enduro competition bike. As the article noted, the faster you go, the better it works. Now, that means it isn't going to be the best bike for most riders, unless you are competing. I don't see this as a bad bike, just one that emphasizes speed over comfort. Isn't that what the 26" guys keep saying? They'll keep the rougher ride to be faster? Flawed logic, but its the same logic used to criticize this bike.
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  • + 3
 No comparisons to its obvious competitor - the Cannondale Jekyll? Sounds like the Jekyll would eat this thing's lunch!
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  • + 1
 Did anyone else notice the bike is listed/pictured with clipless pedals, but all pictures of riding he's wearing 5/10 shoes? do they make 5/10's for clipless?
  • + 1
 It does come with clipless pedals, but I usually ride with flat pedals, which was what I used during the test. It's a matter of personal preference.
  • + 1
 Also, they do make five10's for clipless. I use the 5.10 maltese falcons personally and their pretty dope. Also they have several DH models
check it fiveten.com/products/bike/gravity-spd
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  • + 0
 By the way, Pinkbike, WHAT is that plug that seems to be installed in the underside of the fork's crown steerer opening? Could that be the cause of the 31.6 lb weight of this bike?
  • + 3
 It is a cable guide for the remote lockout fork.
  • + 0
 Is it? Looks like the remote cable wraps around the back of the headtube in PBimage 9038405
  • + 0
 It is a cable guide for the remote cable that goes behind the headtube. An expanding wedge goes into the bottom of the steerer tube - it looks like it slipped down a little. The wedge should be up higher, flush with the bottom of the steerer tube, as it is in the riding photos.
  • + 0
 Cool. That makes sense why I found it visible in some shots, but not others.
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  • + 2
 Call me crazy but I couldn't drop $4700 on a half-carbon bike that weighs this much. No way.
  • + 1
 Yeah, check out the comments, above....
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  • + 1
 "greasy fingered internet searches" - that happens to me a lot specially when i service any of my forks, LOL!
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  • + 1
 Cool bike. But i'm 5ft 2inches...i'm sticking with the standard 26inch wheels and keeping the family jewels too!
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  • + 0
 Even though this review is a bit of a lackluster review I still would like to test one out for myself. Unfortunately no bike shops in my area carry one.
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  • + 1
 On a $4700 doller bike id kinda expect more than slx brakes and no dropper ....
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  • + 1
 why no options to campare to any KHS bikes????
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  • + 1
 What a waste of money!!!!! My full saint aluminum enduro is lighter hahaha
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  • + 0
 To many cables, go single ring and no hancy fancy shock lockout, ha people trying to make mountain biking easier
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  • + 1
 Save 2k buy a giant reign.
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  • + 0
 Can you mount ANY brake on this bike? That chain stay looks like it's in the way for a little bulkier brake.
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  • + 0
 So there are 200 x 50 air shocks with remote lock and limited travel options.... Sounds good for my reign
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  • + 1
 Is that 3x10 gearing? I forgot that existed...
  • + 0
 Couldn't agree more. At least a third of the gears on a 3x10 are redundant. Interesting enough even with all those gears I can't seem to ever find the right gear on a 3x10, and I find my self constantly shifting. Then I get pissed. put in the middle ring and leave it there.
  • + 1
 Time for you to get a 1x10 Smile
  • + 0
 I run either a 1x10 or 2x10 depending on where I'm riding. Bike companies on the other hand spec a 3x10 on almost every demo bike I've ridden lately.
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  • + 1
 Does anyone know how much the 740 cost?
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  • + 0
 For me 650b thing is brilliant, but this genius looks like kellys'... so i would rather go for ibis mojo hd
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  • + 0
 I use both a 1x setup and a 2x depending on where I'm riding, but Every Fricken bike I demo has a 3x10 on it.
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  • + 0
 Needs more cables....where's the dropper post?
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  • + 0
 Triple rings still exist?
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  • + 4
 Just like in our Product Picks section, there will be bikes that you are interested in and some you are not into, same goes for the parts mix that we get to test and tell you about. It's winter time - not a lot of DH on the go, but we are able to get out and ride trail bikes - 26, 650B and 29ers, so the current reviews will be a mix of the 3 wheel sizes found in today's market.
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  • + 2
 Except that the manufacturers really want to impose the 27.5 or 29! At one point they make us believe that 26 is dead and can no longer roll over!I have nothing against the 27.5 and 29, provided that this is done in the SUPPLEMENT 26 ".Personally, I would not leave anything in the world for the 26 ", just like the hardtail, steel frame and Marzocchi.
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  • + 3
 I agree, and steel hardtails with marz coils are sick Razz
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