Shimano Officially Introduces Direct Mount Rear Derailleurs

Apr 22, 2012 at 10:18

Apr 22, 2012

by Richard Cunningham

When Shimano developed its low-profile Shadow derailleur, its engineers needed to move the main derailleur pivot about 25 millimeters to the rear of its conventional location. In order to fit a standard derailleur hanger, this required the B2 link - a short span of aluminum that bolted to the bike's derailleur hanger and provided the new upper pivot location. In short, the B2 link was a temporary patch that Shimano hoped to replace in the future with a more sturdy interface between the frame and the rear derailleur. This was the seed for its direct-mount system which was introduced officially at the Sea Otter Classic as an option for its SLX, XT XTR, ZEE and Saint Shadow-type derailleurs..

Chris Cocalis, founder and designer of Pivot Cycles was on hand at Shimano's 2013 product launch to answer questions about the Direct Mount rear derailleur interface.

Direct mount did not need a push from Shimano to initiate. Much of the impetus for a stronger derailleur interface came from frame designers who had begun to move away from the open rear dropout and towards through axles, or grown tired of compromising the drive-side dropout by machining it thin to accept a flimsy replaceable derailleur hanger. The Direct Mount concept simply encourages frame makers to design a link that connects the frame with the upper derailleur pivot. Shimano will not make the link, that is a development left to the individual frame makers.

Multi image Pivot Direct Mount Shimano Der.

Direct Mount replaces the B2 link and its mounting hardware, as well as the need for the old-school replaceable hanger. Cocalis says his standard-type integrated derailleur hanger is engineered to take a pounding, but the direct-mount (right) makes a more rigid platform for shifting, incorporates the through-axle better, and weighs about 17 grams less.

To help the press get its head around Direct Mount, Shimano invited some early adopters to attend the press launch at Sea Otter. Among the notable bike brands on hand were samples from Santa Cruz, Felt, Ibis, and Pivot Cycles. We asked Pivot designer and founder Chris Cocalis to walk Pinkbike though the bits that make up Direct Mount and to give us a pitch on the concept. Chris says that most of his frames use a 12 x 142 -millimeter rear axle now. Because the drive-side dropout already requires some sort of a threaded insert to accept the through axle, extending that part to adapt a derailleur mount makes good sense.

The finished product looks far more integrated into both the derailleur and the frame design.

Will Direct Mount Gain Traction?

Although the sport's top brands are planning to adopt Direct Mount, Shimano knows that there will be some pushback from customers who may believe that it is shoving yet another 'standard' into an already technically confused marketplace. Direct Mount is an option, not a dictum. Those who feel that they truly need a conventional hanger or a different brand of derailleur can install a conventional hanger (providing that the bike maker makes one available) and by simply unclipping a C-ring, replace the Direct Mount with the B2 link that is supplied with the derailleur. It is interesting that the flimsy replaceable derailleur hanger was invented when frames were one welded piece and a broken dropout could mean that the whole frame had to be repaired or replaced. Suspension made the rear of the frame a replaceable part and eventually the hanger became the frame and drivetrain's weak link - easily bent and rarely stiff enough to provide optimal shifting or a rigid axle interface. Shimano states that the present standard has been unchallenged since it was invented 60 years ago and it's about time we search for a more intelligent option. I agree. -RC

Must Read This Week

1. 24 Bikes of the Enduro World Series 37211 reads
2. A $5 Custom Intense M9 - Cancer Fundraiser 33818 reads
3. Video: Aaron Gwin Blazes a Trail 33507 reads
4. Bikes of the Whistler Mountain Bike Park - Opening Weekend 32179 reads
5. Photo: Brett Rheeder Over Vert Flip 27843 reads
6. The Kids Don't Ride 22785 reads
7. Waking Up the Whistler Bike Park 22051 reads
8. Brett Rheeder Wins 2013 Red Bull Berg Line at iXS Dirt Masters 21640 reads

111 Comments

Score Time

+ 92

racer303 (Apr 22, 2012 at 10:19)

Instead of trying to fix the derailleur, why not fix the problem and work towards other gear solutions like zerode has done

+ 58

bigburd (Apr 22, 2012 at 10:24)

Because there is too much money to be made from parts that need replacing several times a year like chains/cables and stuff that is swapped generally yearly like mechs and cassettes (if you don't smash it off before then)

+ 61

alazamanza (Apr 22, 2012 at 10:33)

can i remind you that zerode's gearbox is actually just a shimano alfine hub so in a sense shimano solved zerodes problem... just sayin Smile

Jacko6793 (Apr 22, 2012 at 10:41)

i agree with both of you i swear a more expensive item such as a cassette with the cycling equivelant of a designer brand such as XTR wears a hell of a lot faster than it would if the companies where less opportunistic. My SRAM cassette is made out of a grade of aluminium that is softer and more prone to fatigue than othergrades that will have harboured no weight penalty. I think cyclists would welcome a brand that offers high quality drivetrain products that arelight but also built to last

+ 45

reks (Apr 22, 2012 at 11:05)

"...eventually the hanger became the frame and drivetrain's weak link - easily bent and rarely stiff enough to provide optimal shifting or a rigid axle interface."

Stop adding additional gears - which are useless to most of us - and this won't be an issue. Ten cogs is too many, IMO.

cedrico (Apr 22, 2012 at 11:37)

I couldn't agree any more eith racer303.

cedrico (Apr 22, 2012 at 11:37)

with*

WAKIdesigns (Apr 22, 2012 at 13:10)

I was actualy hoping Shimano would come up with something revolutionary on 2013 Saint drivetrain, have some balls and cut the bullshit. Something like this Specializeds thing: 6 speed cassette with 10sp spacing on 12x142 hub with narrower freehub body. They manufacture all elements and have power to do something, at least some smart limiting lock on shifter to lock those 6sp but well...

NoSkidMarks (Apr 22, 2012 at 17:03)

Yes Shimano made the Alfine Zerode uses, and it's fine for DH application with 83mm BBs, but they could also make a 100-110mm wide Geared hub to be used like in the Zerode but for XC/trail bike applications to get a narrower Q factor and offer manufacturers more room to move on gear box placement. I dig the Pinnion concept, and it has it's merits, but I believe a rotating geared hub inboard also has it's merits(light, small, easy placement to work with certain suspension designs). C'mon Shimanno, build more Alfine width options, and also gearing options while your at it(5 speed DH model, durable 11 speed XC/trail, even a road one).
I'm happy to help too if you fly me over.
Derailleurs are ridiculous for most applications, please step up to the plate Shimanno, give us the ease, all the wonderful benefits, and maintenance free use of gearboxs, we've paid our dues, you'll still profit.

takeiteasyridehard (Apr 22, 2012 at 20:41)

How do u realign that new piece? Cuz usually u do bend em a few times, and eyeballing it isn't quite optimal. 9 speed rules.

+ 14

fr3er1d3r (Apr 22, 2012 at 23:35)

9 spd is enough. if you're actually trippin about having an extra cog just so the cogs have a slightly, almost unnoticeable difference in formula, then you have other problems.

I think these dicks just want every 9 spd'er to think they need to get a new derailleur, shifter, and cassette.

Doesn't 10 spd mean a thinner chain? Sounds like another problem right there. When I'm shifting, I'm more concerned about getting from low to high gear. having an extra cog just means more shifting. wtf...whatever I don't need it. I wouldn't consider it an upgrade but if my new bike, way in the future, comes with it...great...whatever.

WAKIdesigns (Apr 23, 2012 at 0:15)

Agreed xpirimint - I bought 1x10 drivetrain for XC/AM, as I got tired of the front mech. I went for it just because I thought 11-36 cassette will compensate for the lack of granny. Well it came out that 9sp with 11-34 isn't much harder to crank up. 10sp has worse indexing, is harder to setup and requires readjustment more often. Especially SRAM stuff went to sht. 10sp shifters of X7 and X9 are crap, you need to buy uber expensive X0 to get performance of 9sp X7.

JuVerre (Apr 23, 2012 at 1:58)

I agree with you racer303, it's time to put that fxkin' "ravioli cutter" back to where it belongs ;-)
www.pratmarmilano.it/public/gallery_prodotti/foto_1156_L.jpg

...sorry, I don't know how to put links, just cut an paste

Patrick9-32 (Apr 23, 2012 at 3:15)

Noskidmarks, Just do a quick image search for Alfine 8 speed internals and I think the answer to your question of why there isn't a narrower version being made speculatively so a small number of niche manufacturers can maybe integrate it into frames will become abundantly clear. They can barely fit all those finely machined gears into 135mm spacing, never mind trying to make it 25% narrower.

NoSkidMarks (Apr 23, 2012 at 4:29)

Yeah Patrick, but the axle alone could possibly be remade shorter with bolts going into threaded holes each side, as it's not under load as a gearbox. I'm sure they could work it to be narrower with a different housing, nuts removed and redesigned axle/fittings.

airmiller44 (Apr 23, 2012 at 12:53)

look how much a zerode costs though

racer303 (Apr 23, 2012 at 14:20)

Equal or less than many modern DH race frames, that DO NOT come with a drivetrain. I will also add that i think that the zerode is twice the bike most people consider the modern "standard" Does your carbon trek or V10 come with a drivetrain? how about a CCDB?

Take a look at how much a Saint shifter, derailur, cassette will run you, you get that for "free" on a zerode. its priced to sell and it will

dhridernz (Apr 23, 2012 at 15:50)

How much of a weight penalty and how much extra would peope be willing to pay for a gearbox drivetrain system with the same gear ratio spread as a casstette/derailleur drivetrain and very low maintenance?

NoSkidMarks (Apr 23, 2012 at 17:44)

Racer 303, Zerode also doesn't need chain guide, and also comes with a headset. Oh and it's made in USA, making it priced about even with other Made in USA frames I'm pretty sure(How much is a Foes ETC?). Then there's the savings in no rear mechs, cassettes and the chain and sprockets last so much longer as they're just running straight, not being rammed into each other like some medieval mechanism. I've done one cable adjustment in a year with my Zerode, riding at least two days a week for hours, lube the chain, and that's it, oh and that's still the original chains I put on.
There's a slight weight penalty with the Zerode, but as much of that is probably because it's built tough to last as it is the gearbox. and with the weight all inboard and low acting as ballast, with the super light rear end(no mech or cassette)making it very maneuverable and light feeling. I actually kinda like the weight, the bikes light enough to throw about but very confidence inspiring as it holds it's line well(also thanks to the rearward axle path and 9.25" travel). On paper the Zerode may offend peoples current lightweight trend ideals, but get one under you and see how fast you are before making a judgement that may cost you lots in bike choice. Not to mention having probably over 75% more options on where you get to shift, and not having to pedal the shift through(yeah, think shift in rock gardens, corners, the air ETC).

cedrico (Apr 24, 2012 at 17:10)

that's so true noskidmarks once I'm done school, I'm definately getting a zerode! its an awesome design!

Fearless1 (Apr 24, 2012 at 21:07)

for what its worth, my friend is the rep for Zerode north america. The gear box is awesome. it actually helps keep all the weight centered on the bike. you loose the derailer weight off the back wheel and puts more weight to the middle of the bike. But that design is exteremly limited, and the box its self it pretty heavy. No design is perfect, well just continue to experiment.

WAKIdesigns (Apr 24, 2012 at 23:25)

Every experienced and honest R&D designer will tell you that there are no perfect solutions, there are Design preconditions then compromises to make it work. Zerode provides a very nice variation to ever present "sameness" where one of the better advices you can be given when deciding between Session Demo, Glory or Whatever is: get one with better warranty terms.

[Reply]

+ 51

starcbiker (Apr 22, 2012 at 10:38)

"Suspension made the rear of the frame a replaceable part....",I don't know about yall but on my budget a new rear triangle isn't exactly a replaceable part..

dthomp325 (Apr 22, 2012 at 17:41)

With the exception of Cannondale, modern rear d. hangers are so fragile they bend at the mere thought of a rock. I have to replace 3 or 4 a year, which ain't cheap either, so a stronger version is better in my mind. It looks like the part is burley enough to be bent back into shape if it is damaged, unlike current hangers which are so pliable they pretty much become tinfoil after taking a hit and being realigned.

nigelh (Apr 22, 2012 at 17:45)

If the rear triangle is to become the week point then why not also get rid of the "direct mount' and attach the b knuckle directly to a redesigned rear triangle?

taletotell (Apr 23, 2012 at 5:39)

the hanger needs to be weaker than the derailleur so if it takes a hit the hanger snaps or bends instead of the $250 mech. Mounting the hanger better is good. making it stronger is not.

PLC07 (Apr 23, 2012 at 7:46)

Yeah, I thought the whole point of a flimsy hanger was to save your frame but mainly the derailleur. If the hanger becomes bomb proof, the derailleur business will be good for shimano.

StuntMonkey (Apr 23, 2012 at 17:59)

If the (cheaply made, but not cheaply bought) derailleur hangers Did NOT Bend or Break so easily...
Fewer of my derailleurs would have been caught in my spokes and wrapped up and around in order to become nearly useless donor parts for other (collected) broken derailleurs...
Pilo makes decent Billet derailleur hangers, yet few LBSs carry them...
I am leaning more and more toward SingleSpeed, and GT iT1 internal gearbox styled bikes, but I will not stop riding my 7" Yeti as-X or Cannondale SuperV turned 6" ÜberV, so I will still have to deal with derailleurs and hangers... For a while longer...
Sounds like I should look into the Zeroed and Pinnion...

taletotell (Apr 24, 2012 at 5:18)

you have a point stuntmonkey. I consider going dingle with a hammerschmit in the front.

[Reply]

+ 23

Aibek (Apr 22, 2012 at 13:24)

This is GENIUS , now instead of replacing derailleur hanger , you have the chance to :
1.braking the derailleur itself ,because the mount is looks so beefy
2. the above + striping the threads off the axle & bending it!
1+2= more parts for shimano to sell

the only thing that this is missing is kashima coating to deflect rocks smoothly

i think i'll stick with sram and replace hangers instead !

[Reply]

+ 18

Sarahevoque (Apr 22, 2012 at 10:30)

Gimme an S gimme an H gimme a I gimme an M gimme an A gimme an N gimme an O.... To the left step to the right forward back click yout heels Ssssshhhhiiimmmaaannoo swish your Pom poms Dunno how I feel about that direct mount RD! but iv just watched bring it on! I love that movie.

nightmareterror (Apr 22, 2012 at 10:52)

LOL @ Sarahevoque I like that movie and i'm a guy. Pom poms and cheerleaders are easilly quite exciteable! As for the direct mount hardware I think it's an awesome option. I love to see big brands like these add further options! If anything it gets me that much more pumped to ride!

RaleighVoid (Apr 22, 2012 at 12:16)

hahaha

bunkey (Apr 22, 2012 at 14:19)

That made me chuckle Smile

[Reply]

+ 18

Session603 (Apr 22, 2012 at 10:23)

Shimano has been hustlin' hard lately. i personally like the ability to smash a derailleur hanger off and maybe save the mech but that's just my thought

alazamanza (Apr 22, 2012 at 10:36)

this part will still break like a standard mech hanger the idea is you only need one link plate which would save weigh (albeit very marginally) and make installation much simpler rather than attaching two plates you need only connect one.... less parts = less parts to make or to go wrong... the idea reminds me much of hopes integrated cassette, its just another example of why do we need extra parts?????

schwimble (Apr 22, 2012 at 11:03)

yep!!! wreck you 200 dollar/euro/pound mech when you inevitably pound it off a rock, or bend your 20 euro hanger (of which you should have a spare at all times). and where is the advantage?? are they gonna tell me their high end deraileurs dont shift well because the hanger is flexible??? my hole they dont shift well!!! that is pure shite!!! are we now oing to have a different mech to suit every bike frame manufacturer???

Session603 (Apr 22, 2012 at 16:52)

O ok then. I potentially retract my previous statement in that case.

HandleOfScience (Apr 22, 2012 at 19:35)

I have seen several flimsy hangers bend slightly inward and when shifted to the largest cog cause the chain to throw off into the spokes which promptly jams and rips the derailleur off, bends chain links and breaks spokes. It's not pretty.

[Reply]

+ 15

philneuve (Apr 22, 2012 at 12:27)

Consumers demand innovation. This is an option. Option. I think some people are missing the fact that you can do this if you want because it's an OPTION. Some of us are old enough to remember when a six inch travel bike was an extreme DH bike. Now, a six inch travel XC bike can do it all. The industry moves forward. Don't get offended. The line for 8 speed cassettes for,s over by the porta potties.

[Reply]

+ 12

Matt1234567890 (Apr 22, 2012 at 15:29)

I though the whole point of a soft hanger is so that it bends before the deralier, much less expensive fix...

Jonny616 (Apr 22, 2012 at 16:50)

Couldn't agree more.

[Reply]

drew-ross (Apr 22, 2012 at 11:28)

What, in essence they are doing is re-designing the attachment point of the rear derailleur. This means that the design of bikes derailleur hangers are simply different than what they are now in order to fit the new design of the rear derailleur. Bikes will still have derailleur hangers, but they can now be made stronger and stiffer. It would be nice to see Shimano attempt and encourage a new standard amongst ALL manufacturers (aka SRAM) so that people aren't left out in the cold trying to figure out what derailleur and hanger combo they will need for their bikes!

sam264 (Apr 22, 2012 at 13:33)

No, what they're doing is forcing a new standard upon the bike industry to correct a design mistake that THEY made, in putting a weak link in their derailleur, a mistake that SRAM didn't make, and doesn't need a whole new 'standard' to correct.

[Reply]

davidstuartkelly (Apr 22, 2012 at 11:16)

For crying out loud, every other bloody day do i read company X is bringing out a new industry standard. I thought a standard was universal???. You need to be a rich bitch to keep up with all these so called standards etc. Our brand does this, however it will not work with Company x's stuff... My 2008 Nomad should be retired and given to the smithsonian.

+ 14

LindLTaylor (Apr 22, 2012 at 11:28)

In lieu of giving it to the smithsonian, I'll gladly accept your charitable donation.

Burker (Apr 22, 2012 at 13:00)

This isn't a standard, and it isn't even new. Shimano has already offered the through-axle derailleur in the past - I still have an '04 direct mount 135 x 12 Saint.
The only thing I didn't like about it was that when you take the rear wheel off (which I had to do to cram it in my car), the derailleur hangs only by the chain.

[Reply]

localmotion (Apr 22, 2012 at 17:43)

Any of these systems, the g-box (more appropriately a planetary gear transmission) or the rear derailleur are old systems. The only thing being done is refinement. Everybody seemed to like the Hammershmidt and that is based on a planetary gear transmission, however it is what the market will tolerate and ultimately pay for. Hammershmidt riders are considered a niche market. Volume is what sells, and it is what ends up on the shelves as your options (and we are NOT the volume market, look at China and India, those are the TRUE bike riders out there). The Alfine has been around for a long time now, my dad even has a 3 speed version on his bike that still runs perfectly smooth and he bought his bike in 1978. If you want it, then demand it by pressing the bike manufacturers (there are really only 3 out there, the rest just put stickers on cataloged frames from Star Engineering). I don't mean to burst any bubbles, but it just makes what was "old", new again. Similar to this whole Carbon fiber craze again. It will disappear and re-surface again in 10 years. By the way Rolls Royce tested carbon fiber propellers after the first world war, so it's nothing new, it's just becoming cheaper to manufacture now. Billet Aluminum is just a bit more costly right now.
Rohloff, Honda, and now Zerode are just putting this hub in various locations on the bike. Either way, the choice is always yours if you make the bike manufacturers more responsible for accomodating these transmission types.

Here's a little vid on how the Alfine (ahem, planetary gear transmission) works. Keep in mind the planetary gear system is OLD, probably older than the rear D and much heavier, but far less maintenance and can stand the test of time.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=pebS1TXG6jw&feature=related

NoSkidMarks (Apr 22, 2012 at 18:55)

And? Not really sure of your point. The wheel is an old design too. Nothing wrong with evolving old ideas if they're better.
I do get the push manufacturers bit, hence why I bash so hard on about gearboxes. But if people don't have experience with a decent gearbox bike, they shy to the known entity and comfort of masses and soothing knowledge(mistruths) they gain from marketing. Without having experienced being able to shift any time, and next to zero maintenance, people just don't have a concept of how superior a gearbox bike is. Shimano sure as hell does, hence why they're not pushing them. Sure derailleurs feel good enough, and they do, until you know better. Babies probably think crawling is cool. Gearbox hubs are starting to dominate the commuter bike world, it'll happen in time. The revolution will not be televised.

localmotion (Apr 23, 2012 at 8:33)

I understand what you're trying to say, sure the wheel is old and we think we have "revolutionized" it by placing most of the weight at the hub to decrease the moment of inertia, but again it's an old idea re-visited. In the same manner planetary gear systems have been around for a long time now(circa 87 BCE). I'm not certain what you mean by a domination of gear hubs on commuter bikes in the bike world, as they have always been an option on commuter bikes for quite some time now. Shimano is just waiting in the wings for the mountain bike segment to demand it from frame builders and manufacturers alike, they don't need anymore advice from bloggers like us. I agree that once the masses (the mtn. portion of it) get a taste for it, there will be no turning back, however the industry unfortunately looks to pros and their manufacturers for what is "new" and fancy. What needs to be kept in mind is that we don't have to buy it. What I am keen to know is what kind of feedback was given by Greg Minaar when he rode for Honda? Why was this 2 year stint suddenly ended? Honda definitely has the backing to make it an affordable venture but what was happening at the race tents after Minaar had thrashed the bike on all the UCI courses? Perhaps it would be good for Pinkbike to do an interview of all the top racers and mechs out there to gather data on what they think about racing a g-box bike? Since there seems to be a cross-over of MX racers into the DH world, like Gwin, I would like to know what they think of the rear derailleur too.
I'm with you on the revolution part of it, you're preaching to the choir here, but it won't happen until the mtn. bike masses are educated about their options; 1) being that they don't need to buy it and 2) support g-box companies like zerode, rohloff, etc...

NoSkidMarks (Apr 23, 2012 at 17:48)

I'd be curious to see who neg reped the two above comments, and whom they work for.

iffoverload (Apr 24, 2012 at 13:58)

anyone use one?
www.rohloff.de/en/technology/speedhub/index.html

[Reply]

StinkyTO (Apr 22, 2012 at 10:29)

I would be excited about this if it was a collaboration between shimano and Sram to eliminate all of the different hangers used by each company that even change between their own model years. Think of the convience of having to buy just part A for any bike for any deraillure or to help a fellow rider on the trail. However this is not the case and will become just another thing that some will have some will not and it will be no different then the system that is in place now.
Willl this system work with any current bike, or is it a system that has to be produced for new models only?

sjedawe Plus (Apr 22, 2012 at 10:54)

Sram and Shimano will never collaborate, (may eat my own words)!!! VHS vs Betamax (most of you younger members won't remember what betamax is!), Blu Ray vs HD dvd, ummm could list a million more. Next month sram will have something even better than shimano, so than you buy that, put all the shimano stuff on PB buy and sell, and so on and so forth!!! It's a vicious circle!!!!
Now not only are my 135mm x 10 mm wheels not going to fit a new 12mm x 142mm frame, now my 9 speed xo der will have to go to buy a direct mount 10 speed shimano!!! LOL I love bikes, sorry just had to rant!!!

[Reply]

Jonny616 (Apr 22, 2012 at 16:58)

The idea of basically making a strong hanger sounds good BUT my rear mech's having taken a few hits and it's thanks to the hanger snapping or bending that has saved me having to spend 100 bucks on a new mech. Just seems like it's a bit pointless to me.

[Reply]

michael-douven (Apr 24, 2012 at 18:37)

I'm to lazy to read all the posts but basically by creating a standard that only fits your product your basically just upper your sales on oem products and replacement parts. That's what this is all about. I remember my old dh bike that came with saint first gen and u needed the hub/axle, derailer and brakes cause the hubs only used shimano standard. All worked like shit except brakes. But u basically needed a full groupo to make it work. Very smart $himano.

[Reply]

thatbikefella (Apr 24, 2012 at 4:04)

Why not just direct mount it with a shear bolt? I know Norco does it. That would eliminate derailleur hangers outright. No more what fits what. Still easy to pack spares. Put an allen hex on the inside so you can remove the broken stub, and just put in a new bolt. My buddy's Shinobe even has the spare bolt mounted in the frame for stowage. It seems very simple and smart.

However, I still rock a chromoly rigid frame with 7 speed cassette and shifter, but with a 9 speed Shadow derailleur. Works fine enough for me racing XC and trail riding.

[Reply]

nissmo127 (Apr 23, 2012 at 22:02)

Shimano solved the rear hanger problem years ago...
i8.photobucket.com/albums/a3/Race_Inc/For%20Sale/Der1.jpg
I have been running same derailleur for 5 years! All they would have had to do is offer a non rapid rise version. These things are tanks, I hit a rock so hard I bent a axle the derailleur has a 1/4" deep gash but still running it!

[Reply]

dhridernz (Apr 23, 2012 at 16:42)

This isnt new the 2007 kona stab runs a direct mount with the thrue axle bolting into it! And its shit. just means more broken derailleurs. get with it and build an internal transmition

[Reply]

demonspecialized (Apr 22, 2012 at 16:01)

Personally if they could standardize mech hangers and improve there ridgedness I think that leads to a win win.......no waiting weeks to get a new hanger for your bike and actually improving its reliability in the first place !

[Reply]

misspent-youth (Apr 25, 2012 at 12:26)

Excuse me if I'm speaking out of turn, I understand it's more structural but isn't this just another drop-out??? So really fixing a problem with the same problem??? Please somebody enlighten me...

[Reply]

wibblywobbly (Apr 22, 2012 at 15:03)

What a surprise. RC thinks that something his best friend Chris Cocalis had a hand in designing is the greatest thing ever.

[Reply]

aljoburr (Apr 22, 2012 at 13:26)

Shimano if your reading this!!! If your going to move the deralilleur hanger why not move it so can can run it low profile and sealed
aljoburr.pinkbike.com/channel/Rampage
I am quite happy to help you work it out just send me a plane ticket to Japan?

[Reply]

lely-pie (Apr 22, 2012 at 14:32)

never once have i thought i needed a 'more rigid platform for shifting'. Another prime example of bike industries fixing things that are not broke and finding ways to con people.

[Reply]

AdamTaylor (Apr 22, 2012 at 10:58)

I bet when you snap that mech hanger off, It's going to end up costing far more than the previous idea, looks good though

bigburd (Apr 22, 2012 at 12:33)

I wonder if because of this long hanger there is more chance of the mech going into your wheel because of the greater length to be bent.

Know what I mean ?

Saying that tho it's pretty beefy

[Reply]

bendy (Apr 22, 2012 at 10:30)

I agree with session603 ^^ also it's a lot more practical and cheaper to carry spare derailleur hangers in your kit than spare derailleurs

faaz (Apr 22, 2012 at 10:40)

Sorry but I think you missed the point. This is essentially a universal mech hanger, and you can still remove the mech from the hanger...

Jacko6793 (Apr 22, 2012 at 10:42)

the reply button is your friend

NorCalNomad (Apr 22, 2012 at 11:01)

How many times have you snapped your hanger and the derailleur came out fine? I can say none with 5 blown

danb396 (Apr 22, 2012 at 11:19)

I've snapped my hanger 3 or 4 times, only once has the derailleur needed replacing, so it's definitely worth having the hanger.

conv3rt (Apr 22, 2012 at 14:57)

so where is the weak link? at least with the hanger you knew with some confidence what would break. have they designed something cheaper than the hanger to break? something will have to dissipate all the energy built up during a crash. drop out welds perhaps?

[Reply]

rightarm (Apr 22, 2012 at 10:31)

I have to agree with "Session603", not only does the "replace dearilieur hanger" make more sense it's far cheaper to replace the 'hanger" than it would the "derailieur", although a great idea and is stronger "no doubt".

[Reply]

corona (Apr 22, 2012 at 10:39)

What happens when you fall and bend this hanger? How do you straighten it? Currently my bike shop just pops it off and uses their hanger alignment tool. Can this also be done? And if so what is the difference? All I can see is that shimano wants in on the hanger market.

bunkey (Apr 22, 2012 at 14:25)

Chances are, if you crash hard enough to bend this hangar, you should be more worried about having just bent your frame.

[Reply]

chazza (Apr 22, 2012 at 13:02)

I dont know about you guys but Im quite happy with how my rear gears work atm, if theyre set up right they work work right. I think Ill break/bend just as many of these as I do mech hangers. Everyones ranting about a different method of changing gear with gear boxes etc but this isnt moto gp its a push bike! Think everyones becoming abit to picky, i like rear mechs.

dhridernz (Apr 23, 2012 at 23:25)

if your saying that i must ask what jind of riding you do?? it certainly isnt downhill or you would be long over it...

[Reply]

NoSkidMarks (Apr 22, 2012 at 19:02)

Vote with your money people, buy a gearbox bike. Zerode Alutech Nicolai and there's more covering lots of styles.

madmon (Apr 23, 2012 at 14:22)

cue sounds of crickets

[Reply]

christiankay (Apr 22, 2012 at 11:41)

Nice to see the Shimano Deore XT Shadow+ rear derailleur make an appearance with it's clutch mechanism and silver switch ...

Gibbersticks (Apr 23, 2012 at 14:50)

I'm pretty sure that silver switch is plastic, not impressed.

[Reply]

Thunderbiker (Apr 22, 2012 at 20:01)

Directly mounted onto a thing that looks like a hanger...?? Confused

[Reply]

taletotell (Apr 23, 2012 at 5:43)

How about a mech that works differently and stays out of the line of destruction? I am thinking something that comes off the chainstay?

smike (Apr 23, 2012 at 7:14)

Well, in order to change gears, you need to manipulate the chain below the cassette because of the direction of the chain... so I'm not sure how that would be possible.

taletotell (Apr 23, 2012 at 9:05)

You could do it with a cog rerouting it up before it got back to the cassette. I think I'll draw up a possible design. Too bad I didn't think of it I time to win the intense

iffoverload (Apr 24, 2012 at 6:27)

this?

www.rohloff.de/en/technology/speedhub/index.html

taletotell (Apr 24, 2012 at 11:17)

My design lets you use any hub

[Reply]

Ryanlak (Apr 22, 2012 at 23:21)

"the present standard has been unchallenged since it was invented 60 years ago and it's about time we search for a more intelligent option."

Right... so how is this more intelligent?

NoSkidMarks (Apr 23, 2012 at 4:32)

It's better for their current design. It eliminates one connection, and makes it tidier. I'd still want the hanger to be the fuse that bends under impact though.

Varaxis (Apr 23, 2012 at 15:46)

Everything is challenged, even "well-understood" and "well-accepted" things. Some new things just don't gain popularity and die out, commonly due to lack of investment behind it. Ideas with minimal amounts of investment, that pass and gain popularity & acceptance, are typically just plain better. Shimano invested little in this... they believe it's such a good idea that they're leaving it to the frame builders, who were already not happy with current replaceable derailleur hanger systems.

iffoverload (Apr 24, 2012 at 6:25)

maybe something like this? cmon shim sram show us wot u can do!!

www.rohloff.de/en/service/faq/faq_detail/archive/2005/11/july/article/Weight_comparison_Rohloff_SPEEDHUB_50014_Derai/index.html

[Reply]

saso (Apr 23, 2012 at 13:07)

reminds me of the old sis mecs remmber? probabbly not... they had a plate so you could screw it to the rear axle that wasn't so bad...

El-Warpo (Apr 25, 2012 at 2:26)

Yeah, I remember them. They're still an option on the lower end bikes. I think that doesn't play well with QR axles, but sure it would play well with thru axles... yet, you'd need to redesign the axle at the very least.

saso (Apr 30, 2012 at 6:41)

i agree

[Reply]

nojzilla (Apr 23, 2012 at 10:39)

YAY another F*ck*ng new standard....... pack it the FK in allready > Frown

[Reply]

Fix-the-Spade (Apr 22, 2012 at 13:03)

There are already good strong mech hangers.
There are also already mechs that bolt directly through the upper pivot. SRAM make them... shimano used to too.

Call me cynical, but I'd bet they had this five years ago when Shadow mechs first arrived. Introduce a weak link (haha) into their own mech designs, let them gain enough market, then bring out the 'solution' one hardware cycle later that renders rival brands unusable on OE spec parts and frames.
Why not use a low profile main pivot on the mech? Or make the shadow link plate beefier?

Also why not make the bloody link?!? If you're going to press a new 'standard' mech hanger why not make it a standard size and shape for 10mm open and another for 12mm through axle (like X-12 already does)? Reduce costs, add convenience, presently hanger designs are more or less arbitrary, a standard one or two would make ordering and fitting spares easier too, make it like an innertube or a split link so you can just hand one to your mate/that guy you met on the trail if he needs one.

This is a crap new standard, it improves nothing but Shimano's bank balance and ability to sabotage other brands...

[Reply]

smike (Apr 22, 2012 at 12:53)

Is this not just revisiting the through-axle-mounted Saint from a few years ago?

[Reply]

benjipyatt (Apr 22, 2012 at 13:57)

If it doesn't need fixing, don't fix it!

[Reply]

labman82 (Apr 23, 2012 at 6:54)

i think mech hangers should have a universal standard.

NoSkidMarks (Apr 23, 2012 at 17:52)

At least a few options to allow manufacturers some room to move. But yes the current free for all helps nobody but the brands.

[Reply]

daisycutter (Apr 22, 2012 at 14:55)

This makes my 2009 saint look back to the future. Still have that old derailleur on my back up bike.

[Reply]

Oscarmonk (Apr 22, 2012 at 12:00)

why??

[Reply]

Risingstorm (Apr 23, 2012 at 3:51)

All I see this doing is help break the mech as the direct mount wont bend as much as your small hanger.

[Reply]

iffoverload (Apr 24, 2012 at 6:23)

another "attempt" at "improving" ...

[Reply]

jthefoo (Apr 22, 2012 at 20:22)

I learned all about these today at sea otter!!!

[Reply]

Rockurshoxoff95 (Apr 22, 2012 at 11:52)

Wow ! this is some great ingenuity ! I like it, i'd be pretty interested to try this out

[Reply]

labman82 (Apr 23, 2012 at 6:52)

Remainds me of SIS NICE!

[Reply]

jubs17 (Apr 22, 2012 at 18:55)

i like it....

[Reply]

Below threshold threads are hidden