Shimano Zee Brakes
Shimano's Zee gruppo has been touted as Saint's little brother, and for good reason. Many of the features from Shimano's high end freeride/downhill group have made their way onto the Zee line of components, but at a lower cost. The Zee hydraulic disc brakes are no exception, sharing the same four piston caliper design as the Saint brakes, but without the tool free lever reach and stroke adjust, and priced $70 less, at $229.99 for the caliper and lever (rotor not included).
| Details • Dual diameter, four ceramic piston equipped caliper • Short, textured lever blades • Mineral oil • Weight: 306 grams (front brake, caliper and hose without mounting hardware). • MSRP: $229.99 (single caliper and lever) |
ConstructionThe Zee brakes use a short, textured lever blade designed to maximize stiffness. The texture comes from numerous small circular indentations, a feature intended to improve grip in wet, slippery conditions. A split clamp design allows the levers to be removed without taking the grip and shifter off the handlebar, and the lever reach is adjusted via a 2mm hex key located at the front of the lever.
The Zee brake's levers are compact, with a slim mineral oil reservoir and a dimpled lever blade to prevent slippage during wet weather.
The brake caliper uses four ceramic pistons, with a larger diameter pair located towards the front of the caliper to improve modulation. Ceramic is used because of its insulating properties, which helps protect the system from overheating during periods of extended hard braking. Shimano has made heat management one of their top priorities for their brakes, with the ultimate goal being move heat away from the caliper as quickly as possible, helping to prevent the possibility of brake fade caused by an overheated system. The use of radiator fins integrated with the brake pads is another step Shimano takes to keep things cool and controlled. Since Shimano sells their rotors separately from the lever and caliper, riders could choose to use the Saint-level, three layer ICE rotors if they wanted even more heat management technology. We tested the brakes with Shimano's two piece RT66 rotors, rotors that fall in line with the more budget conscious intent of the Zee gruppo.
Four ceramic pistons, with a larger pair in the front, provide the brake's stopping power.
InstallationInstallation was quick and easy, aided by Shimano's excellent pad clearance, which makes getting a rub-free setup a no-fuss affair. Because of the short lever design, we ended up running the levers positioned closer to the grip than what we're used to with offerings from other manufacturers, but there was still enough room to position a shift lever or dropper post lever in between the grip and lever if necessary.
On The TrailThe Zee's full power doesn't hit you over the head immediately; rather, it remains in reserve towards the end of the stroke for those emergency, full stop moments. Sure, give 'em a good pull and you can skid to your heart's content, but it's not as immediate as on other brakes we've tried – there seems to be more of a delay between when the pads contact the rotor and when the full power arrives. Don't get us wrong, the power is there, it just occurs deeper in the lever stroke. We've spent extensive time on Shimano's SLX and XT brakes, and where those brakes can feel almost grabby from the start, the Zees seem to have more of a ramp up to their power, with more modulation available before full lock up.
It was on long, committing rock faces and extremely steep sections of trail where speed needs to be controlled without losing traction where the brakes' excellent modulation was most apparent. On terrain such as this the ability to find a balance between locking up the rear tire and careening wildly off into the bush is a must, and the Zee brakes more than earned their keep, remaining fade free even after extended periods of brake dragging. In wet weather the metallic pads were relatively silent, with only the occasional squeal, and the stopping power remained consistent.
As far as overall durability goes, we did manage to have a couple over the bar moments during our time on the brakes, usually caused by stuffing the front tire where it didn't belong, but the levers emerged unscathed, without any bending despite having several solid encounters with the ground. There were only a few cosmetic scratches on the reservoir cover bolt to show for our less-than-smooth moments.
IssuesWe've had an excellent track record with Shimano brakes being low maintenance, but we did end up needing to bleed the rear brake after a month or so of use. It started acting up when we traveled to Whistler, exhibiting an inconsistent lever feel, and lacking the power we had come to expect. Luckily, bleeding is a simple procedure, and the fact that Shimano uses mineral oil makes it a much more skin and paint friendly procedure compared to dealing with DOT fluid. How did air work its way into the system? We're not sure, but it's entirely possible that there was still an air bubble or two remaining from when we shortened the line during the initial setup, and that going up 4000 feet in elevation caused it to change position and affect the brake's performance. Again, bleeding was quick and easy, and fixed the inconsistent lever feel.
The only other quibble we had with the Zee brakes is that a tool free lever adjust would be much appreciated. For riders who are particular about their brake lever position, it's especially nice to have the option of quickly turning a dial as opposed to digging for a multi-tool.
Pinkbike's take: | Choosing a set of brakes can be a difficult decision, with numerous factors to examine, including price, ergonomics, mineral oil or DOT fluid, two pistons or four... the list goes on. Shimano's Zee brakes strike a good balance between power and modulation, and we'd say their lever shape is the best on the market right now. The use of mineral oil also makes our inner mechanic happy, as does the excellent pad clearance that reduces rotor rub. At this price we would like to see a tool free lever adjust, but barring that request Shimano's Zee brakes are powerful, reliable stoppers that would make an excellent upgrade for riders looking to ditch their two piston stoppers and step into the world of powerful four piston brakes. - Mike Kazimer |
www.shimano.com
These are the perfect brake! Rather cheap, numerous interchangeable parts, stopping power for days, plenty of modulation, and super durable! I've got them on my DH rig and have no plans of taking them off!
Pros:
1] Awesome Modulation
2] More pressure equates to more stopping power
3] Good lever length
4] Quality material (Hasn't broken or bent from crashes)
Cons:
1] Inconsistent bite point
2] Hardest brake bleed ever (Bleeding my car brakes are easier).
3] Mineral oil is quite expensive
4] No bite point adjustment
I don't know on what point exactly it was hard for you but for me it's probably the easiest brake to bleed(I had SLX, but the system is the same)
I will buy a Zee crankset in this month, they are in excellent price/value range too
Zee can be found for $230 a set if you shop around, and that's not much more than XTs go for. Plus the all black Zee look much better than the shiny chrome XTs!
Greater pad area does not affect power. It gives longer pad life.
4 pistons do not inherently have more power than 2 pistons. Piston area is what matters. If the master cylinder piston remains a constant and a 4 piston caliper with 4 smaller pistons has the same area as a caliper with 2 larger Pistons, power will be the same. Usually a 4 piston caliper has more piston area thus more power.
Different sized Pistons are not used for better modulation in a 4 pot setup. The trailing piston will be larger for one reason..... For more even pad wear. Different sizes pistons have nothing to do with modulation.
The Zee brakes do have considerably more power than XTs. Take a look at piston area between the two and they share the same sized master and you have your proof. XT, XTR, SLX, and Deore all have the same power. Only the Zee and Saint brakes have more power than the rest. The only variable is the lever.
Rotor size, pad type, and rider weight should always be mentioned when comparing brakes but somehow the most important information is usually left out.
EVERY Zee brake I've used or installed has needed a bleed. That's only 4 with two of them on my personal bike but still..... I bought my front and rear separately from different vendors and my friend's ZEEs were from yet another vendor. We had the usual inconsistent bite point and feel. The culprit was a bad factory bleed but not so bad it was immediately obvious. The brakes are amazingly consistent now on both bikes.
Shimano mineral oil is NOT expensive. It's $20 for 1L. This is enough for one person for a lifetime.
On the subject, Shimano mineral oil has a boiling point of 536F, beating out even DOT 5.1 minimum spec (518F) and destroying DOT III and DOT IV.
Anyway, about power in brakes. Some basic hydraulics for you... Force = Pressure x Area. It doesn't matter how many pistons there are, the force exerted on the pads depends on the pressure generated at the lever and the total area of the pistons.
Was assuming all this when he said bigger surface area=bigger bite
Now having both XT and Saint, both with metallic pads and same size/type rotors, knowing that both share same levers thus force at master cylinder is exactly the same, how the hell 4-pot Saint feels stronger? It makes no sense, Help me Science full of Experimental Grace, blessed is thy Logic and so is the fruit of your womb: Reason
The problem with both of these leverage-increasing scenarios is that to gain the higher leverage, you also need more throw - which is why these brakes suffer from an excessively long throw as I detailed above, NittyGritty is completely incorrect above when he claims that bleeding will resolve this issue - it will not, as that would defy physics. Overfilling them is a very short term solution that will decrease throw to moderate levels, but that fluid will soon leak out of the reservoir topcap. At equilibrium the Saint and Zee brakes will ALWAYS have a longer throw than the XT/SLX items due to basic hydraulic theory - no matter what you do, they will revert to this scenario over a short time. Of course if this doesn't bother you - ride on. I've owned every generation of Shimano 4-pot brake and unfortunately I don't think the M820/810/640 are perfect, better engineering could reduce throw while maintaining power. Lever leaks are also very reminescent of Avid, and a departure from past Shimano reliability. I hope Shimano keeps working on their product as it has high potential.
My shifters are sram5, rear derailleru SRAm 7 (9 speed)
So I was thinking of a set of hope e4 or maybe v4s - Can anyone comment on the these brakes stopping power and modulation, specifically vs the zees?
Obviously keeping the pads cool via the fins reduces the most common fade, pad fade. As a bonus the pads should last longer if they are regularly pushed hard and heated up. Generally a pad can wear quicker if it's always too cool and doesn't lay down a transfer layer on the rotor but that's rarely the case. More common is excessive wear from excessive heat. In this case, keeping the pads cooler can reduce wear. I'm boring myself so I will go now.
Good to see a glowing review!
For starters, the brakes let air into the system too easily ( I had it bled twice btw, each time it had an air bubble in the line)
Secondly, I had very inconsistent bite points and a brake that completely changed how it felt half way through a run and the levers were WAAY too stiff, to the point it hurt my damn fingers and had to brake two fingered to get any power out of it.
I ended up having to bleed it for a 3rd time but brought the pads in closer to the disc for a better bite point which resulted in them been too sensitive and twitchy. But most likely putting them back a bit more would probably result in stiff brake leavers and inconsistent bite points again.
I never had any issues with my old pair of saints.
Also, I'm not an isolated case. A lot of other people have had the same issues as I did..
It doesn't matter how many times you "had" to bleed them because they were never done right. When I begin having those sorts of repeating issues I step back and try to figure out what I'm doing wrong because it's probably human error on my part.
As I've stated before the factory bleed on the ZEEs sucks. It's good enough that some don't recognize they need a bleed so they trash the brake on the internet for an inconsistent bite point or excessive travel.
I know it's easier to leak air than fluid but don't you think that if these brakes let air in so easy even though they're not under vacuum, they might possibly leak fluid when the brakes are applied and the lines are under a couple hundred psi?
Changing how they feel part of the way through the run can be the friction coefficient changing as the pads heat up. It can be from a master cylinder that's overfilled from someone trying the very bad method and bandaid gimmick of "resetting" the pistons and topping off the fluid.
I guess it really gets under my skin when people don't understand something so they blame the product and never doubt their own knowledge and skills.
I suspected it might be something to do with the way I store my bike as it seems to happen while the bikes in storage between rides. So I asked Shimano the second time I returned a set if hanging your bike vertically from it's front wheel, like on an uplift, would cause problems or air to get in? They said no and gave me a new set of brakes again. Then the same thing happened so I did a search for similar problems with Shimano brakes. As far as I can tell Shimano brakes have a tiny release valve/hole in the caliper that can let air in/out. Usually when you are riding the bike is upright so the hole is at the lowest point on the system and air doesn't get in. But if you turn the bike upside or store it hanging from the front wheel, the valve is then at the highest point in on the system and air gets in!!
So as much as I love the lever design, look and feel of these brakes, the fact of the matter is if you store your bike vertically or upside down, you can forget it. Unless you really really like bleeding your brakes regularly, like every single ride! So now I've learned to love the feel of the zee lever, but have no choice but to get rid of them and find something else, which I really don't want to do, I really really wish I had never read any of the reviews for the zee, and unless I move and start storing my bikes upright again I will definitely not be buying anymore Shimano brakes!
After a year of putting up with this I'm thinking of a new brakes altogether as I've not seen any remedies.
Can anyone make any direct comparisons between the zee and hope e4 or hope v4? In particular comparison of power on extended descents, modulation and lever consistency?
I'm worried the e4 might not have the same stopping power which I really like about the zee...
1) It is a crappy product and not to be trusted? (that's your pick)
2) I should avoid crashing into trees or
3) Profit
It is nice to see a supplier with a decent mid-range offering, that is affordable to the employed masses. I say employed as some no-job dirty bike bum will no doubt jump on soon and say these are overpriced and that Shimano suck and they will ride a 24" rear wheel til they die.