Pinkbike Tech: Ten-Speed and the Nine-Tooth Cassette Cog

Apr 14, 2011 at 0:09
Apr 14, 2011
by Richard Cunningham  
 
You must login to Pinkbike.
Don't have an account? Sign up

Join Pinkbike  Login

Mountain biking and the triple-chainring crankset are conjoined twins in the minds of most, which has proved to be a greater stumbling block for the proponents of 2 x 10 than was anticipated. SRAM poured untold marketing money into its XX two-by-ten campaign. The sport’s most influential riders and a groundswell of rank-and-file enthusiasts have long-abandoned three chainrings in favor of a more simple single or double arrangement. The validity and versatility of one-by and two-by drivetrains has been proven world wide, from Whistler to the XC World Cups—and yet there still is a great reluctance within the sport to embrace the less-is more philosophy. The pushback is based upon two fears: first, that small chainrings just look wrong; and second, that two-by or one-by gearing range is too limited, so one must give up top speed, or give up low climbing gears to subscribe.

Why nine-teeth matter: The gearing spread on the left represents an old-school triple crankset (22,32,44) driving an 11 x 34 cassette. The far right is a double crankset with small, 24/36 chainrings,  powering a 9 x 36 cassette. The graph shows that the nine-tooth gives the two-by-ten almost an identical climbing gear and the same top gear. Compare this to Shimano's 3 x 10 second from left.  -Race Face graphic
Why nine-teeth matter: The gearing spread on the left represents an old-school triple crankset (22,32,44) driving an 11 x 34 cassette. The far right is a double crankset with small, 24/36 chainrings, powering a 9 x 36 cassette. The graph shows that the nine-tooth gives the two-by-ten almost an identical climbing gear and the same top gear. Compare this to Shimano's 3 x 10 second from left. -Race Face graphic

Recent developments to adapt wide-range gearing, spearheaded by Hope and Specialized, promise to address the only substantial drawbacks to single and dual-ring drivetrains. The most significant being Hope’s innovative cassette based upon a nine-tooth cassette cog, while Specialized, has taken the leadership role in applying 2 x 10, 1 x 10, and nine-tooth to its trail, all-mountain and downhill designs. Pinkbike interviewed Hope’s Neil Arnold and Specialized’s Brandon Sloane to get the facts about the new 9 x 36 cassette, and how it may affect MTB drivetrains in the near future.



The nine-tooth cog is roughly the same diameter as the spline of a standard freehub. To prevent premature wear, Hope machines the last five cogs in one piece from a steel alloy which will remain a secret.
The nine-tooth cog is roughly the same diameter as the spline of a standard freehub. To prevent premature wear, Hope machines the last five cogs in one piece from a steel alloy which will remain a secret.


Pinkbike Interview: Hope’s Neil Arnold and the 9 x 36 cassette

Hope Technologies introduced a 10-speed cassette, based upon an impossibly small, nine-tooth cog last year that may erase all valid reasons to choose an old-school triple crankset. Hope’s ultra-wide-range cassette was intended from the outset to give single and double-chainring users a versatile gearing spread comparable to Shimano’s contemporary triple-crankset options.

The Hope cassette is revolutionary because the freehub pawls and bearings are integrated into the cassette, which eliminates the conventional spline-and-lock-ring arrangement of a standard hub. The Hope cassette slides onto the axle and plugs directly into the hub’s ratchet ring. The cogs are made in two blocks, the five larger sprockets are machined from aluminum, while the nine-tooth cog and its four brothers are machined from a single piece of alloy steel. Hope’s simple design eliminates a few complicated parts and allows the smallest cogs to overlap the larger-diameter cassette bearings and sprocket carrier housing. We asked Hope's Neil Arnold to give us the inside story on how the 9 x 36 project came to be, and who might want to use one.

The key element of the Hope cassette is that the freehub engagement pawls are machined into the cassette body. Sealed bearings in the cassette run directly on the rear axle - elegantly simple
The key element of the Hope cassette is that the freehub engagement pawls are machined into the cassette body. Sealed bearings in the cassette run directly on the rear axle - elegantly simple


Neil Arnold explains the reasoning behind Hope’s simpler-is-better approach to drivetrain technology:


PB Is there one person you attribute the development of Hope’s 9 x 36 cassette to?

Not one person, but the ‘brains’ behind it at our end is Simon, one of the co-owners and designers and Owen, the chief designer. The idea or concept could be credited to all those who ride though, and who inspired something of this type.


PB We have been warned that nine-tooth sprockets wear quickly. What material does Hope use for the block of five small sprockets?

At the moment that’s a secret I’m afraid! We don’t have many – but that will have to be one of them. We originally experimented with aluminum on both the upper and lower sets of sprockets, different types, different coatings… then some steel, we’re still developing it though, so no final decisions as yet – suffice to say that we won’t release something that isn’t ready and we’re not totally happy with as far as longevity, wear and performance goes.


PB What motivated Hope to develop the nine-tooth cassette? Downhill? Trail?

Cross-country/trail, first of all. A few of us have experimented with single rings, single-speed, 2x9 set ups, 1x9 set ups – and the type of riders and the kind of riding that we do allows us to run these setups. It’s not for everyone, that’s an important factor to realize. It suits some people and their riding, although more could benefit from it if they ‘adapted’ slightly. The DH side of things has started to come into play already though, even in the development stages. We’re playing about with six-speed set ups with close-ratio ranges to work on smaller front rings – something all DH riders and bikes could benefit from.


PB The inside diameter of a nine-tooth cog is too small to fit a standard cassette. What modifications did Hope devise to circumvent this problem?

We’ve always followed the ‘industry standards’ as far as components go. We make aftermarket upgrade parts, so we fit and work with what exists. As we already make the freehub body for the hub, it was an ideal part to work with to do what we wanted, and not what already was out there. We therefore combine the freehub body and cassette into one piece, allowing the lockring to be removed and therefore the smaller sprocket sizes to be achieved. It’s a real ‘why didn't anyone do that before moment’ when you look at it!


PB Hope's 9 X 10 system reportedly only interfaces with special Hope hubs. How does the Hope freehub differ from standard?

What is standard? Our freehub body fits our hubs, of course. The new cassette fits on all our current Pro 3 and Pro 2 Evo hubs, and will retrofit back onto the Pro 2, when an axle and spacer kit is used to convert it.


PB How does Hope believe this development will change the future mountain bike?

Simpler, lighter, less complicated - all the things we all want our bikes to be!

Hope's 9 x 36 cassette paired with a 24/36 double crankset produces a wider range of gear selections than a Shimano XT triple  with a 11 x 36 cassette
Hope's 9 x 36 cassette paired with a 24/36 double crankset produces a wider range of gear selections than a Shimano XT triple with a 11 x 36 cassette






Pinkbike Interview: Brandon Sloane and Specialized’s one-by and two-by drivetrain development.

Chain guides for XC: Specialized's Epic Expert Evo 29er comes stock with a single, 34-tooth chainring and a guide--a new look for skinny-tire production bikes.
Chain guides for XC: Specialized's Epic Expert Evo 29er comes stock with a single, 34-tooth chainring and a guide--a new look for skinny-tire production bikes.


When Specialized mobilizes most of its MTB group to develop a drivetrain concept, it indicates that big changes are in the wind. Specialized’s design team was an early adopter of the nine-tooth concept, and had already committed much of its 2010 all-mountain and trailbike range to single- and two-ring drivetrains. Specialized’s pro DH team was secretly using custom, nine-tooth cassettes on the World Cup circuit (link to PB story) and was testing Enduro and Stumpjumper prototypes with 9 x 36 cassettes crafted from Shimano’s little-known Capreo compact road-bike components (link to PB art) grafted onto Deore XT cogs. Specialized is pushing two-by and one-by drivetrain development beyond of-the-shelf options from SRAM and Shimano at a time when notable bike makers are still arguing the merits of triple-chainring cranksets. Pinkbike asked Brandon Sloane to walk us through Specialized's drivetrain philosophy.

SRAM and Specialized co-developed lightweight guide rings that keep the chain from overshooting the big sprocket on Specialized's two-by-ten trailbikes
SRAM and Specialized co-developed lightweight guide rings that keep the chain from overshooting the big sprocket on Specialized's two-by-ten trailbikes


Brandon Sloane on the direction Specialized's new drivetrains are taking its trail, AM and DH designs.


PB How does 2 X 10 fit into Specialized's trailbike and AM lineup?

We went big with 2x setups for almost all trail (SJ FSR) and AM (Enduro) bikes. Enduros have actually been double for some time now (before 10sp). All of our categories have a specific 2x setup tuned for experience and wheel size. Epics and Hardtail's get bigger gears than Enduro bikes and 29-inch wheels get smaller gears than 26-inch wheels. We tend to err of the side of low gearing. We like to make sure you can get up the hills. I think many stock 2x10 offerings (XX and XTR) are too big for Trail and AM use and even XC with 29" wheels. Other brands tend to run bigger gears (because that is what SRAM/Shimano offer up), but we focus on climbing rather than pedaling a 42x11 on the road down a hill.


PB Is it true that Specialized and SRAM are working closely on new drivetrain developments?

SRAM was a great partner with our 2x10 setup making custom ring configurations (24/38 for Stumpjumper FSR) and other setups (like the carbon and alloy shift guards. These are not for bashing - just a little something (that is very light!) to help keep your chain on.


PB You've been on single and dual-chainring bikes forever. What would be your gearing choice for trail riding?

On my trail bike (SJ FSR 26") I run a 24/36 in most cases up front with 11/36 cassette in the rear. On my Enduro, I have a 1x10 setup with a 31-tooth up front and custom 9/36 cassette in the rear. Of course, a shift guide on the double and light single-guide on the single. Unfortunately, chains still fall off without them!

Brandon Sloane is riding the same prototype 9 x 36 cassette that Pinkbike photographed on Curtis Keen's Enduro FSR. The first four cogs are patched from a tightly spaced road cassette, which makes for less-than optimum gear ratios--this will be addressed for future production.
Brandon Sloane is riding the same prototype 9 x 36 cassette that Pinkbike photographed on Curtis Keen's Enduro FSR. The first four cogs are patched from a tightly spaced road cassette, which makes for less-than optimum gear ratios--this will be addressed for future production.


PB Grassroots 2-by and 1-by riders have all adopted some sort of chain retention system, and Specialized is using roller guides on some XC and AM models as well as outer guide rings on 2-by traibikes. Shimano and SRAM, however, have yet to address the subject. A couple of thoughts on the subject?

Yes. We are all for guides, but there are plenty of opportunities to make them better. Today's systems are mostly overbuilt based off of DH systems. We keep weight in mind on most Stumpjumper FSR's (with outer shift guard only) and a light Gamut system on Enduro and Stumpjumper FSR EVO. We made our own super light XC guide for Epics this year and will continue to make our own systems or have them made (like the Gamut shift guide) in the future. SRAM and Shimano are aware of the problem so I am sure you will see something from them.

Specialized teamed up With Gamut to produce a lightweight roller guide for the 2 x 10 Stumpjumper FSR
Specialized teamed up With Gamut to produce a lightweight roller guide for the 2 x 10 Stumpjumper FSR


PB Specialized moved the DH tech needle with Sam Hill's nine-tooth cassette and now Pink Bike has ridden a nine-tooth prototype cassette on Curtis Keen's Stumpjumper EVO trailbike. Specifically, what were the advantages Specialized was looking for in each case?

Nine-tooth for DH came about from trying to help Sam and Brendan from smashing their chain guides during racing/practice. With the low bottom bracket of the Demo, a guide with a 36-tooth ring gets pretty beat up. The nine-tooth in the rear allows us to run a smaller front ring and guide, lessening contact. There are also a few other benefits when you setup the nine-tooth with the number of gears the guys are actually racing on. You will see other improvements based around the nine-tooth soon! Nine-tooth for Trail will be a little more difficult, but we are pushing for it. To take advantage of the wide range nine-tooth could give you, your chainring size options will need to change a bit (for singles). Also, the 9/36 cassette creates pretty big steps in the gear changes, but all these things can be solved for.

Sam Hill's radical six-speed cassette was the debut of nine-tooth in DH.
Sam Hill's radical six-speed cassette was the debut of nine-tooth in DH.

The reason for Hill's nine-tooth cassette was to use a smaller, 30-tooth chainring without affecting Hill's overall gear ratios--a ploy by Specialized to raise the chain guide out of harm's way.
The reason for Hill's nine-tooth cassette was to use a smaller, 30-tooth chainring without affecting Hill's overall gear ratios--a ploy by Specialized to raise the chain guide out of harm's way.


Contact Specialized and Hope to follow the proression of wide-range nine-tooth cassettes and drivetrains.

To earn your Pinkbike doctorate in drivetrain development, please submit a brief dissertation on the nine-tooth concept.

Must Read This Week









94 Comments

  • + 17
 Current chains don't glide well over cogs that are less than 11 teeth. The diameter of the cog is simply too tight to allow smooth chain articulation. This is one of the two reasons why BMX drivetrains developed the half-link chain (the other reason is to allow finer chainstay length adjustments on horizontal dropouts).

This is an important development for MTB drivetrains and major props to the companies for spearheading this but more developments are definitely needed (and on other parts of the bike than just the hub, cogs, and chains) before this is a completely viable option for everyday riders.
  • - 1
 To "North shore" yea chains do become more stressed when smaller rings are used BUT! 1: how often is a mountain biker in the smallest ring under normal circumstances? 2: BMX Half link chains were designed to allow the rider to make smaller adjustments to chain length, making rear when placement in horizontal dropouts easier, and more customizable.
  • + 1
 To Eyon I agree with you but i think it would not be that bad because the cassette is made with 2 sets of sprockets and i imagine that the smaller ones are gonna be available separately considering they probably gonna wear faster than the bigger ones...Anyway it still an expensive upgrade that's not gonna be for me.
  • + 2
 Cool to see this development. I hope they are making stronger chains too! I still run 8 speed; have found 9 speed chains break too often as it is... and if you go ten speed the sprocket width will further be reduced. But I am a fat-arse!
  • + 1
 Fully agree, NSBS. I also don't appreciate the fact that stocking various 9t cassette bodies will be a pain, and personally don't spend that much time in my 11t cog that I feel I need another gear or two past that.
  • + 1
 "Current chains don't glide well over cogs that are less than 11 teeth. "

I call bullshit on that one. Shimano Capreo uses normal chains and I think Shimano know more about gears than you, don't you think?

www.sheldonbrown.com/capreo/index.html
  • + 3
 @north-shore-bike-shop actually i disagree with the fact that chains don't wrap around nine tooths very well. a lot of bmxers ride 25x9 tooth drives soooooo
  • + 1
 we have been reading about this for almost a year now, its time that it comes out so we can test it out... Im waiting to get this set up on my Dh bike, hopefully e-13 comes out with that mini guide too
  • + 3
 Hustler, the point of the 9t isn't to get a higher gear... the idea is it'll be almost identical to your 11t in the big ring, except you'll only need two smaller rings up front and still have the just as wide a ratio. I think that gearing chart is a pretty great demonstration of why these drive-trains could be worthwhile.
  • + 2
 I know, the concept is centered on maximizing ground clearance while widening gear ratios as well (on a DH bike at least). In the context of an AM bike, with a 31 or 32t "big" ring, the granny is what? 24t? To me the step from a 24t to a 32t is too small.

What I'm getting at is that this may have great applications on works/high end DH bikes where durability isn't an issue (because the smaller a gear is the faster it wears), cost isn't an issue, parts availability isn't an issue and setup is corrected after every run. Will we see this anytime soon on a run of the mill AM 1x10 bike? Not likely, if you ask me.
  • + 2
 "I call bullshit on that one. Shimano Capreo uses normal chains and I think Shimano know more about gears than you, don't you think?"

Would you say Capreo is the pinnacle of bike design? In that case, a recumbent/folding bike specific group is hardly designed for the durability tests that a mountain bike would dish out, and a little rougher running chain is a good trade off for a meaningful top gear.

9t cogs do not run as smoothly as 11t ones, a 1/2" link doesn't allow it. Not saying it can't be done, just saying it is not ideal.
  • + 1
 Yes thats right, the last cogs of the capreo are not "directly" on the freewheel. you have to be carefull when you put them together an there is no good tool to thighten them up. i know from experience at work that the capreo is not as durable as the normal freewheel but i still like it.
in some weeks i hope to build my new bike and it will run a capreo 9 speed hub with a mix of the sram 11-34t and the hg-70 capreo.
  • + 1
 Hustler, I take your point, but I imagine Shimano do some serious product testing, putting products through many times the stresses of regular use.

And besides, if Sram, Sam Hill and Brendan Fairclough don't snap chains on 9t cogs enough to stop them using it, I think it's OK, don't you?
[Reply]
  • + 8
 I seem to remember that Hope were claiming this will be pretty expensive (Sram XX market)

I just wore out an XT cassette and am going to replace it with a Sram PG990 (mmmmmm red), it cost me less than £50, but i cant imagine anyone wanting to replace their freehub at the same time as their cassette?

For racers, yes, for normal people, no, just too costly to replace the expensive bits of a rear hub at the same time as a disposable part like a cassette.

But its shiny and nice colours so its tempting to buy!
  • + 1
 Those freehub pols and mechanisms will most likely be sold separately as they will outlast the cassette by a long shot. It would just be a matter of switching those mechanisms to the new freehub/cassette. Theres actually far less parts this way. and think about it, no more ruined freehub splines from torque?
  • + 1
 I cry a little every time I wash my bike and look at my XX cassette. It is a work of art, but once it's worn the thought of replacement costs give me nightmares.

In the current financial state of the world, I don't think we need more $500 cassettes.
  • + 2
 Ha ha ha I laugh at all you guys! I run 3x7 drivetrains - as much range as anything else out there, and I can get a whole drivetrain -chain, crankset and cassette, for 75 usd. A new cassette is 23 dollars, (pg-850 300grams). No seriously, I feel very bad for all of you.
  • + 4
 I bet those are some sweet cranks.
  • + 3
 true, the 40 dollar deore cranks are a little clunky, and I have to admit I usually have a nicer set on there. But I haven't bought a chainring in years. When you get a chain for 20 bucks, you never have to run it when it's got the slightest sign of wear, so the other stuff basically never wears out either. Actually, my hope is that the companies continue to produce more and more preposterously priced drivetrains so the price and quality of the lower tier stuff continues to improve. It's a win-win situation for us cheapskates.
  • + 4
 I can get behind that - I'd rather have a current generation Deore over a three year old XTR any day of the week. Mid range and entry level components have come a LONG way in the last five years.
  • + 3
 Well, that, and new beats high quality any day of the week, when you're talking about drivetrains. If you have to hang on to your 500 dollar cassette until it's worn and skipping, your pedaling life will be miserable. Honestly, I'm sure all this new stuff is really nice, and all the reasons for it make sense, and like people always say, if someone was giving them away I'd be thrilled to have ten-speed hydraulic carbon-titanium cassettes. But in the meantime I'd like to send out a big thank you to everyone spending the price of a whole bike on one tiny, quickly wearing part so skinflints like me can enjoy the trickle-down tech for basically free.
[Reply]
  • + 7
 I recently went to a single 34t up front with a 11-34 9 speed at the rear and havn't had trouble climbing, even in the hills of North Scotland where I ride.

Pro's;
Saved £200 on buying new drivetrain!!!
Cheaper spares/parts

Just means my legs are getting better thats all.
  • + 1
 I've been thinking of running just a 26 front with an 11-36 9 speed. I frequently ride my 48 lbs freeride bike up 5 miles straight of techy, steep climbing. As it is I spend most of my time in 24 front, 34 rear. How heavy is your bike? I can't imagine only having a 1:1 ratio gear for long, steep climbs.
  • + 1
 My bike is light. Dont know the exact weight but its an Intense 6.6, totem coils, with easton havoc wheels, and as much carbon as you can get. I reckon around 30 lbs adding up the manufacturers weights on a spreadsheet.
[Reply]
  • + 7
 The specialized one looks like a copy of the shimano capreo which is availible since some years.

www.sheldonbrown.com/capreo/index.html
  • + 0
 10 speed is far from a new concept
[Reply]
  • + 5
 its good to see all this development work going on, but will this apply to the "every-day riders" who actually buy the equipment that keeps these companies in business?

this afternoon?

I just got from a 3 hour trail ride Smile


my bike runs 2 x 9 with 28T / 36T at front using E13 bash and Blackspire Stinger roller, and 9 speed 11-34T rear

works perfectly, never needs regular adjustment once installed (just slight indexing adjustment after cable stretches)

rode up very steep terrain, lots of fast singletracks, rode down some steep terrain, covered alot of miles on our ride!


my buddy was running 1 x 10 with 36T front with E13 LG1+ and 10 speed 11-36T rear

his gears needed regular adjustment during the ride....indexing would not behave, he never had this problem with his older 1 x 9 setup


not sure how many riders actually need / want 9T-36T cassettes, wear and tear could be horrible based on my BMX experiences with "microdrive"?
[Reply]
  • + 6
 When will we finally abandon this 100+ year old design, and embrace a decent bike "transmission" that's sturdy, efficient, and not susceptible to dirt, mud, etc?
  • + 4
 when someone makes one that is lighter AND cheaper. man i want a fully sealed gearbox which weighs what the derailleur weighs.
  • + 4
 I cant believe we still have to use derailleurs and replaceable hangers, its a joke, surely there's a better way. It seems its acceptable to have an expensive part of your bike right where your likely to bash it off. Madness for us, good for shimano/sram
  • + 1
 CarlosMC, hard to believe it would be perceptible, do you have any data to back that up? the advantages of direct drive in feel, instant shifting, and power while shifting outweighs efficiency disadvantages in many scenarios, if there even are any.
  • + 2
 I have to agree with CarlosMC. With my Hammerschmidt, I notice myself spending a lot more time in the 1:1 ratio granny mode where there is no power loss. I definately do notice the slight loss of power (and snappiness) in high gear mode compared to using the middle ring on my other bike. Since I mainly ride super steep climbs followed by long decents, the Hammerschmidt works well for me. When I'm on flat terrain and need to be in the middle chainring for a long time, I notice the drag.
  • + 1
 +1 on the hammerschmidt, combine one with a single speed hub for a dishless wheel with 5-6 cogs (you can still run 11-34), and with 6 cogs your chainline is much better. I am all for a large range of gear ratios on the rear, but 10 cogs seems overkill when you can get the same low / high gearing range on 5 or 6 and have faster shifting between them.
[Reply]
  • + 7
 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh i heart hope
[Reply]
  • + 3
 the ratio compared to three ring isnt that much different
nto enough in my opinion to be significant
why 9 speed cog? just get a bigger ring

'radical 6 speed cassette'
6 speed is far from radical and is very old

i dont see the improvements here, looks to me like maximum effort for minimal change
a solution to a problem that doesnt exist
  • + 4
 Yes I agree. A problem that doesn't exist. Everyone has their own personal preference to gear ratios 34t 36t 38t or 40t up front 7sp 8sp 9sp 10sp 11-32 11-34 12-36 on the back If you want to go faster JUST PEDAL HARDER job done
[Reply]
  • + 3
 Interesting stuff. I have recently got 2x10 on my trail/AM bike and I love it. I'm running 26/38 and 11-36 and to be honest don't miss the biggest gears of a triple but as I have a Pro 2 Evo I might well try one of those Hope cassettes when they get them sorted.
  • + 1
 Looks good this casette, but how are you supposed to press the seal in when cogs are in the way? and how do you take the cassette out? it will be hard to do it like you do the pro II freehub body
  • + 1
 Im pretty sure taking the cassette out will be similar, just undo the axel in the hope hubs like you currently do and removing the cassette should be just like removing a current hope freehub body no? Atleast that would make sense.
  • + 1
 to take it ut you need to twist and pull which will be hard with the cogs, and to refit it you need to use the tool to press the seal in which seems imposible with the new design...just a thought
[Reply]
  • + 2
 i just put the new x9 ten spd on my bottlerocket and am running 1x10 with a 34t in the front. a silght improvement from 9 speed and so far no issues with chain, cassette or transmission. when its time to get a new drivetrain part you should consider switching to ten speed, it makes for better ratios and more chain security and clean look up front because you can lose that saw blade gear. that full suspension 29r w/ 1x10 looks like its awesome in every way.
  • + 2
 i run 2x9 24/36-11/34 way cheaper than 10spd!!!!!!!
[Reply]
  • + 2
 On my XC bike I am currently running a 9-32 9 speed cassette made from a variety of shimano rings and last 4 sprockets from a capreo system, i have gears of 9-10-11-13-15-18-21-26-32 and I have a Single 27 tooth middleburn ring on the front. all the gears i need and so much lighter. I would recommend this to everyone who doesnt use all their gears, i get around 22 to 78 gear inches which is plenty for me.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I run 1x9, 11-34T cassete and 34T chainring on my stinky. I ride my stinky on dh and trail riding. Would like to get 30T or 32T chainring with 11-36T cassette, cuz I get too burned currently on the climbs. I strongly agree with single chain rings up front for all bicycles, no matter the style, yo.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 they shouldve done a focus group so joe public can tell these companies is not actually needed and generally not wanted there is already so much choice and variety for anyone i guess they just need another product for you to give you their money
[Reply]
  • + 1
 When BMX went to ultra small drivetrain I noticed way more broken chains. Smaller gears means higher tension in the chain. Smaller gears means faster wearing. Shimano's Dynasys 10 speed theory talks about having a bigger granny ring partially to reduce tension on the chain. For all this stuff there will be trade-offs. If you want a really broad range of gears go 3x10 or 3x9 - no real difference in my mind. If you're strong and never use the ultra-low gears go 2x10.nobody's riding experience will be that much better or worse no matter how they go.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I like Hopes 9x36t but the integrated cassette and proprietary with only Hope hubs is a weakness and an increase in the cost of the cassette when it needs replacing, both weaknesses imo, the 9x 36t is great though, so be interesting to see Srams take on this when in production, though not keen on 10spd when its obviously not needed! For DH its definitely the way and should have always been the way, MTB has always unfortunately been afflicted with trickle down from Road bike technology and innovation which we end up having to put up with on MTB bikes which are more like MX bikes not fat tired road bikes e.g XC which can get away with most of that stuff. My only other concern is 9t cog will require another cassette body or wheel, so does this mean more cost to hub manufactures to produce something we already have or will the hub cassette body be upgradeable. You only have to look at what 15mm axles did to fork costs, they did not lower costs, but have increased costs from the manufacturer to the end user and now with more confusing stds when 20mm did the exact same thing and is and can be produced lighter and stiffer. I'm all for it and the innovation as we need it and this is a good concept but as usual it will be how its executed and delivered to us as consumers, if its propriety and high end exclusive it will suffer. or as usual we will.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I may have missed it, but I didn't see mention of the sensativity to misalinement of the rear derailer, ie 10 increments that are smaller are going to be afffected more by misalingment than say a 7 speed der would, making adjustments that much more difficult or a "bump" to the der having that much more of an effect. Or is this even relevant??
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Please build a 9 or 10 speed 9-21T or 9-23T for the 4x-er and downhiller among us! Shoot the crazy DT-Swiss SRAM 9T duck with one shot. Also make the 2 biggest cogs removable and eventually replaceable with a specialized demo style chain guide plate. A lot of us are using Hope Pro 2 rear hubs. I'll be one of the first to buy one.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I have always wanted to run a 24 front ring with a whatever-36 cassette for forever. I run a 22/32 with a 11-34 now, but without that 9 tooth and that 36 tooth, I can't get away with ditching the "middle", or in my case top ring.

When this comes out I'm running a single 24 tooth ring in the front with a guide to keep the chain on, and the 9-36 cassette. I can't wait to ditch that front derailleur. That's going to be a great AM setup for me.
  • + 1
 when running 24t on the front do you ever feel undergearded on the DH??
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Actually what exactly are the gear steps? Do we have a 9-10-12-14-... or a 9-10-11... ? 9-11-13... would also be possible if impractical. Like the Capreo, this could be interesting for the folding/recumbent crowd. Any information on weight or pricing? It'd need to be cheaper than the Rohloff to be of any interest.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 This will be sweet for 1x10 on trail bikes, I dont like having another shifter and derailure, its lighter and cleaner w/o. I have a mine set up with a 33t x 11/36t and sometimes would like a taller gear and more ring clearance would be cool although my 34t bash is rarely an issue..
[Reply]
  • + 3
 Lol people just like the hope cassette b/c its gold and green. It does look sick though
  • + 2
 yes im here for the colours!
[Reply]
  • + 0
 i've ran 30 x 11-34 (9 spd) and now run 24/36 x 11-36 (10 spd) but there are 2 completely different markets for micro drivetrains that require 2 different solutions IMO:

DH - clearance is the advantage. more gears are not needed. the 9 and 10 tooth cogs are really the only innovative thing going on here. run a 29, 30 or 31T chainring, a miniguide and however many gears you want out back and you are done.

Enduro requires a more complex solution IMO. if a 9-36 is a 400% gear range (from graph), for steep terrain and long rides in this part of the world (North Shore Vancouver), more gear range is needed for 6 inch bikes and certainly 29ers. why not 8-36 11 speed? my 10 spd XX is MORE RELIABLE than my old 9 spd setup. i was expecting the opposite. how does 11 spd hold up in the road world? if it's like 10 spd, it will be great. if i switched my current 24/36 11-36 setup (a very popular gear range for 6 inch bikes in this part of the world) to 29x9-36 i'd lose my easiest gear. however 26 x 8-36 (11 spd) would provide a 450% gear range and not drop any gears.

and importantly - how do small chainrings affect current suspension designs?

Hope/Specialized designers - what's preventing 8T cogs and 11spd?
  • + 1
 Follow your experience, can I mix groupset
1) truvativ double crankset 24-36
2) 10 speed shifters xt
3) 10 speed xt fd
4) 10 speed chain
5) 10 speed cassette
6) 10 speed xt rd
thanks
[Reply]
  • + 3
 Please just make a 4 speed, I really don't need any more gears than that.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Is it possible to purchase 9-36 cassette as yet? I restoring some 1960's Moultons and whilst Ihave one with 9-26 cassette the larger range would be great
[Reply]
  • + 2
 If you want to go faster JUST PEDAL HARDER Save your money and don't get sucked in to companies over engineering things
[Reply]
  • + 2
 not sure. i remember going from 8 to 9 and all the dang grass that got in the cogs. i guess that might just be where i ride
[Reply]
  • + 3
 that hope cassette is impressive
[Reply]
  • + 2
 I'd be happy with a 2 by 8. Just set it up without that last little gear and I'll be happy.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 dose this require a special hub?
i love that they have finally gone for a 9t on mtbs but id love to se it in a 9/20 setup for descending with no intent of a climb
  • + 1
 though really this is more of an all mountain or xc gimmick my dh/fr rig has a 9speed 11/26 rear and i used to have a 32 front which wasnt enough
so i just changed my front to a 40 which has it almost where i want it.
yes a 9t cog would be cool but the 10speed thing is really unneeded in anything beyond xc and am
[Reply]
  • + 2
 i dont know much about hope, but apparently, they know whats up. have to find a supplier and give em a go
  • + 1
 If you like loud freehubs they are some of the nicest you can buy. if you don't like loud freehubs then dont go for hope.
  • + 1
 loud is good, but i cant give up my deemax's, too good.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 If I have to go ten (and I'm sure 9 cog cassettes will go off the high end market eventually) then at least I'll have a considerable range.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 thats an amazing tuning.... the green casette for my AM and the 7speeds for my Dh bike... great!!!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 i run a 9t driver on my bmx with a standard 9sp chain and it works absolutely fine
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Hope Brazil Edtion??? I like... I want
  • + 2
 I thought it was the Green Bay Packers edition.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Pretty slick. Makes single ring on the front more useful for all mountain riding.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Mmmmmm pretty pictures...I wish I understood all this 'gear ratio' stuff...
  • + 2
 It says it on the chart... it's how far the rear wheel rolls for every one full revolution of the cranks.
[Reply]
  • + 0
 I'd prefer 9 speed 9-36. But 9-36 in ten speed is a fantastic option for the reasons stated in the article. Hat's off!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 ....i wish they where in the yellow green color scheme. Frown
[Reply]
  • + 1
 They look so steezy, where can i buy one?
[Reply]
  • + 1
 whatever works....but ya gotta love the bling !
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Jeysus I wish I could pedal hard enough to need that small cog!!!
[Reply]
  • + 2
 i miss nine speed
  • + 2
 9 speed is far from dead
  • + 1
 well for now .. but i do know that sram have re tooled all the production equipment to make 10 speed drive train kit ! there are no more spares available from sram for shifters or mechs !
  • + 1
 they will have smed or something in place to make both lots of components, or even a whole new set of machines or factory!

what do you mean no more spares?
for 9 speed?
  • + 1
 no more shifter spares or mech spares... so if you bust your 9 spd xo shifter and you send it off to fisher's they wont be able to do anything with it apart from offer you 10 spd shifters....forcing you to go ten speed as alot of there 9sp gear is coming to the end of production ! chains and cassettes will be available for a year longer but once there gone..there gone !
  • + 1
 is this true?
what is your source??
  • + 1
 my friend works for the sram tech centre in the uk he is head of sram technical and servicing .
  • + 1
 wow?!
really that cant be right, im astounded

they cant just phase out 9 speed like that
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I wish I had this now.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 that is pretty cool
[Reply]

Post a Comment



Copyright © 2000 - 2014. Pinkbike.com. All rights reserved.
dv16 0.076780
Mobile Version of Website