Truvativ HammerSchmidt preview

Aug 14, 2008

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Finally after months of teasing, Truvativ releases the true identity of HammerSchmidt. We can put an end to all the rumors and speculations that have been inundating various MTB forums. Adios front derailleur, hello HammerSchmidt!

EDITED: Added Q Factor Info

History

This project started almost two and a half years ago after noticing that many riders were using 2 x 9 setups on their bikes. The goal was to deliver a reliable crankset that used one single ring, but offered the gear range of a double ring setup. After many discussions with riders and frame makers, Truvativ’s HammerSchmidt was born. A revolutionary front transmission system that replaces your front derailleur and chain retention system while still giving you the gear range of a dual ring setup.

Features

Truvativ’s HammerSchmidt is offered in two version – Freeride and All Montain. Both flavors share the same five main components:

Freeride

All Mountain
Bottom Bracket:
• compatible with 68, 73 and 83mm BB shells
• All Mountain version uses a 15mm crankbolt
• Freeride version uses a 12 mm crankbolt.

Crank Arm:
• All Mountain available in 170 and 175 in Galvanized Silver
• Freeride available in 165, 170 and 175 in Tungsten Gray

FR vs AM crank arms
Collar Assembly:
• HammerSchmidt’s Collar actuates the sun gear
• Will only work on frames that have ISCG 03 or ISCG 05 Tabs
• It’s vital that the ISCG tabs and BB interface are perfectly faced and perpendicular. There will be a specific HammerSchmidt ISCG facing tool.

Mechanism Assembly:
• This is the heart of the HammerSchmidt transmission system.
• 22/36 or 24/38 gear range.
• 1: 1 or Overdrive ranges. 1:1 means the chainring does one full revolution with every pedal stroke. Overdrive is approximately 1:1.6.
• All Mountain bashguard is made of Carbon while the Freeride is made of a special ultra-durable plastic.

Trigger:
• HammerSchmidt triggers look just like the current X.0 and X.9 offering but they are specific to the HammerSchmidt. Easily recognizable by the anvil etched on the lever.
• Actuation is reversed when compared to traditional FD shifting.

HammerSchmidt Trigger Shifter

Advantages

• Superior Ground Clearance when compared to a traditional two or three ring setup. This will allow you to clear more obstacles on the trail.

Clearance with 3 ring setup

HammerSchmidt clearance
• Seamless Shifting under load.

• Instant Shifting even while coasting or pedaling backwards. The HammerSchmidt doesn’t depend on pedaling to shift.

• Ultimate Chain Management with one single ring and a constant chainline. Makes it much easier to use the full range of gears in the back. The chain is encapsulated between the collar assembly, Mechanism assembly and top chainguide slider, so it’s not going anywhere.

• Streamlined design that looks pretty clean and fast.

• Simple and low maintenance with only a few parts to lubricate.

• Granted you have ISCG tabs, this system allows you to run two gears up front on bikes that otherwise can’t accommodate a front derailleur.

Installation

If you want to use the HammerSchmidt, your bike will need ISCG 03 or ISCG 05 tabs. ISCG adaptors will not work. This means this system is not compatible with many top end bikes, but Truvativ reassured us that they are working closely with many of these manufacturers to have them incorporate ISCG table on their frames so they are ready to adapt to the HammerSchmidt. In addition, your BB and ISCG tabs both need to be faced so they are perfectly perpendicular to each other.

BB and ISCG facing tools
The HammerSchmidt uses a proprietary Bottom Bracket – therefore other Truvativ Bottom Brackets won’t work.

The shift cable is routed down the downtube and feeds into the back of the collar assembly. Otherwise the HammerSchmidt install procedures are the same as your tradition crankset. Pretty straight forward really.

Weight, price and availability

Compared to traditional Truvativ All Mountain and Freeride setups, the HammerSchmidt weigh a bit more. Even more so when compared to other lightweight crankset on the market today.

Expect the HammerSchmidt to cost between $700 and $800 for the Bottom Bracket, Crank arms and Trigger shifter. Available starting December of this year.

Impressions

I recently got to ride the HammerSchmidt down in San Luis Obispo and was pretty impressed at how quickly and efficiently the system shifts. Under load, while coasting, while backpedalling, while standing still – shifting is instantaneous! It’s pretty trippy because with a front derailleur you have to do 1/4 to 1/2 of a pedal stroke before the shift is complete – whereas with the HammerSchmidt the shift happens as soon as you actuate that trigger.

Speaking of trigger, since actuation is reversed compared to your traditional front Trigger sifter, shifting the HammerSchmidt takes some getting used to. Even after an hour on the bike, I was still hitting the wrong trigger. I’m convinced that after a few rides I wouldn’t have to think about it anymore – but I was struggling since front shifting has become second nature for me and I’ve never had to think about what trigger to hit.

The pre-production samples we rode were a bit loud – but from what I’ve been told, the final production models are quieter. Tuvativ had HammerSchidt’s mounted on Turner RFX’s and Scott Ransom’s, two bikes that pedal relatively well in granny gears, but alas we all know that not all bikes pedal well in the granny gear – like my Santa Cruz Nomad for example. I can only assume that on some type of suspension linkages/designs, the HammerSchmidt wouldn’t be efficient.

All this aside, I think Truvativ’s HammerSchmidt has potential. The idea of not having to adjust a front derailleur, never dropping a chain and never missing a front shift due to chain suck is pretty appealing to me. The added weight, reverse shifting (compared to what we have now) and requiring ISCG tabs, not so much. A short ride wasn't enough to really gauge the HammerSchmidt - these are only initial impressions. I will let you be the judge unless I can get more HammerSchmidt ride time in the near future.

Truvativ HammerSchmidt Q Factor provided by Truvativ

Q factor defined as the distance between pedal mounting faces of left and right crankarm, measured in a direction parallel with the BB axis.

• Truvativ HammerSchmidt Freeride is essentially the same as Holz OCT and Blaze, i.e. all Howitzer level crankarms.
• HammerSchmidt All Mountain is 8mm narrower than the Freeride version, and is in the class of Stylo's Q-factor (1 mm wider)
• HammerSchmidt Q-factor is symmetric about the centerline plane of the bicycle frame

Learn more about Truvativ HammerSchmidt

www.magicmechanics.com

HammerSchmidt overview and installation with Anthony Medaglia

Sorry about the funky video thumbnails - not sure what's up with that? but the videos still play fine - enjoy!

Part one

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-Luc "Acadian" Albert

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144 Comments

Score Time

+ 27

NSSuburban26 (Aug 14, 2008 at 0:12)

They don't give a fair comparison, since the Hammer Schmidt is 2 gears and they compare the clearance to a 3 ring setup?

+ 13

russpaver (Aug 14, 2008 at 3:31)

and the two bikes were different, so they would have a different BB height anyway. Only a small bracket of riders (XC, all mountain etc) use more than one ring on the front

OrangeGoblin (Aug 14, 2008 at 4:00)

they also compared ground clearance on two different bikes!!?
And when calculating the weight gain/loss, didn't account for the weight savings of not needing a chain device of front derailleur did they?
(that goes in favour of the Hammerschmitt i'm guessing).

I want one, but not sure of its effectivesness on my SS, and the price will be the deal breaker. If its around the $500 mark, it'll be worth it. Still better than buying seperates: Crank ($150) + Chain guide ($200 - E13) + Mech ($50) + Shifter ($50) = $500!!!!

OrangeGoblin (Aug 14, 2008 at 4:03)

Sorry, My bad, didn't see the price.......that's too high i think. Depends what it equates to in pounds - at Â£400 that's seriously expensive, and that's at the current exchange rate, which is not as good as it was. hmmmm....... we'll see.

alech (Aug 14, 2008 at 4:44)

Talkng of botom brackets, i noticed the drive side has small bearings, and loads of people have had problems with isis size bearings! Bad move i think.

fedz (Feb 23, 2012 at 4:56)

changer cable goes underneath the bike ? ...... oh dear !

[Reply]

+ 20

kajtek007 (Aug 14, 2008 at 0:10)

Looks sick, but for a hefty price

krawszczuk (Aug 14, 2008 at 1:42)

so complicated, and looks havy

+ 14

purple (Aug 14, 2008 at 2:17)

looks really good...just need one for the rear now...that would be sweet!

chris-s1 (Aug 14, 2008 at 4:14)

there is a one for the rear, its a hub with one ring but 16 internal gears

brooce (Aug 14, 2008 at 7:01)

'Looks heavy', 'so complicated', but for me seems to be better than gearbox... more bike-likely Smile

rejean (Aug 14, 2008 at 7:57)

but aren't your crank arms going to be too far appart? it looks to be about 2-3cm wider than regular cranks...

rejean (Aug 14, 2008 at 8:02)

but still I don't think the price will be too high ...cranks + BB = 250$, chainguide = 200$ , shifter + trigger = 100$

so if the price comes in that range (550$) they might be a good investment

- 47

extremefreerider89 (Aug 14, 2008 at 10:11) (Below Threshold) show comment

i dont see the purpose in this, it makes absolutly no sense

kajtek007 (Aug 14, 2008 at 12:51)

They are over $800 and they only work on bikes that have ISCG 03 or 05 mounts, an not many bike have that setup.

argyle409 (Aug 14, 2008 at 12:57)

For $800 I could setup 2 bikes with nice front setups, plus how many of your local shops are gonna have a set of Hammer Schmidt cranks along with extra spare parts.

Since everyone knows that when something new comes out there are always problems, I don't care if they have been testing it for 2 years still means that there will be problems.

kaibrabo (Aug 14, 2008 at 22:25)

for $800 usd you could set up a nice hardtail... only if you got half your parts for free that could be possible. i think that they will extend the amount of gears and soon you will only have to run a single cog and a singulator which is excellent! no more broken derailleurs!

audeo03 (Aug 15, 2008 at 4:44) (Below Threshold) show comment

My complaint, is that if you use your ISCG tabs, you can't use a boomerang. It needs to have a built in chain tensioner for me to even consider it. I was stoked when they made the announcement, but will wait until more bikes have something like the Nicolai G-boxx setup.

bkbroiler (Aug 17, 2008 at 18:34)

It does in some other photos

[Reply]

bullitxl (Aug 14, 2008 at 5:28)

Wow, this is amazing. I hope its sealed well enough to make it durable and reliable. I specifically bought my last bike because I could run a front derailleur so now this makes a new bike that isn't compatible with a front derailleur more attractive and gives everybody more options. I'd love to see a long term review.

bigburd (Aug 14, 2008 at 9:16)

i think the sealing is gonna be the downfall of it my self , did you see how much drag there was when he was spinning the cranks ? lots IMO .Seems like a good idea in general to me tho just needs to be lighter and more compact width wise i think

[Reply]

+ 12

mark416 (Aug 14, 2008 at 0:21)

could you run single speen in the back and only have 2 gears with this

HandsomeDave (Aug 14, 2008 at 1:17)

Should be able to because the chain length won't change but you will end up with two gears pretty far apart and nothing in between, far simpler and cheaper just to run regular singlespeed for all the difference it will actually make in riding.

[Reply]

slydaddy (Aug 14, 2008 at 12:45)

I look forward to seeing the progression of this, it's great to see a company putting something new into the shifting world! It's about time!

[Reply]

PissedOffCil (Aug 14, 2008 at 9:41)

I like the idea and the execution seems about right. But there are some definitive problems :
1) Inverted levers
2) Cable must be run along down tube
3) Doesn't offer that much more clearance than a 2 rings + bash setup
4) More chances of problems than the simple old derailleur
5) I doubt many shops will keep spares in stock
6) Noise (I prefer chain slap to that ratchet sound)
7) Price (both initial price and spares price, given you can't just change just the cranks, or derailleur, or rings/bash(???) but have to buy the whole system)

I doubt it will be commercially successful to be honest. At least it might become a valid option in a couple of iterations.

brule Mod Plus (Aug 20, 2008 at 15:46)

I'll do my best to answer how I see some of this playing out:
1-I had trouble with this set up, but look at all the different set ups out there and you'll also see that we as riders adapt pretty quickly
2-doesn't have to be under until the very bottom, so it could run along the side of the down tube and be out of the way.
3-I'd say it's a solid inch of clearance and from riding it I can say that it saved me in that department on 2 occasions on one long ride.
4-only time will tell but the pluses that it offers out weigh the downs to me.
5-This will be one of those high end parts that most shops will order in and then you get parts as needed, doesn't look to be a high wear piece to be honest.
6-That ratchet noise only happens back pedaling, in the videos, the guys are holding on to the product, but when riding, it's only back pedaling.
7-Premium products cost more-simple fact.

I hope that helps a bit.

[Reply]

jackass142 (Aug 14, 2008 at 8:38)

hasnt this already been done? google, schlumpf innovations

bigburd (Aug 14, 2008 at 9:25)

this schlumpf one seems to be far better to me , so much smaller and simpler , only draw back is the fact you gotta cut away at your BB to fit it.
thanks for bringing that name up jackass142 i never heard of this schlumpf before now and probly wouldnt of either

[Reply]

jamespetkau (Aug 14, 2008 at 22:25)

this is one of those ideas that is close to being great, but hits a limited market as it is (how many all mountain bikes have ISCG). imagine this idea for DH racers that could switch between about a 33t or 34t to a 38t or 40t (shifting in a corner without pedaling, shifting while sprinting, unaffected by bumps). my concern about buying one would be finding parts for your $800 crankset in 2 years and ending up being S.O.L.

[Reply]

psycho-baby (Aug 14, 2008 at 18:02)

it is expensive, but think of it this way. They spent over 2 years developing this product. It is much more complex then the average setup. They also gotta fabricate all these pieces and pawls and stuff. I think the price is steep but FAIR.

f-f-d (Aug 14, 2008 at 19:59)

your right indeed, your paying for a brand new shifting system that no one else has with like they said over 2 years of work. good price. sick work sram!!!!

bkbroiler (Aug 17, 2008 at 18:58)

plus if you combine all that it replaces

[Reply]

jonlake (Aug 14, 2008 at 0:25)

its not as expensive as you might think

Price out a Holzfeller crank set with BB, 2 chain rings, a carbon bash guard, a high end chain retention system, a decent front derailer and a X.0 shifter.

won't be a crazy difference

OrangeGoblin (Aug 14, 2008 at 7:03)

Out of interest, why a carbon bash guard? They are v. expensive and really crap

PissedOffCil (Aug 14, 2008 at 9:04)

He's just comparing what's being offered on the AM model

[Reply]

thekonakid24 (Aug 14, 2008 at 0:23)

I think it looks killer, but for the price I'd rather slap an E-13 on with my current Hollzfeller cranks and pocket the remaining $550. ....And on a side note, has anyone on here ever actually NEEDED a bash gaurd? Neither myself or any of the folks I ride with can remember the last time we were ever crank-checked. Just curious.

northshorebiker94 (Aug 14, 2008 at 12:46)

yes I have on my am bike when I was riding on teh shore I totally trashed my big ring !

nato (Aug 14, 2008 at 20:20)

I landed 50/50 on a rock ledge wheels and guard hit at the same time from about 10 vertical feet up and was able to keep riding ( after i finished crashing ) thanks to my bash guard.

audeo03 (Aug 15, 2008 at 4:49)

The bashguard is useful. It along with the upper roller/hood keeps chains from leaving the front ring/s. But, the chain tensioner aspect of the boomerang is FAR more important IMO. It's nice not to have your chain taking chunks out of your chain stays when you descend...

[Reply]

madmtber (Apr 22, 2012 at 10:40)

I have the AM version and I love it, never serviced it and never had any problems with it either,yook me like 3 rides to get used to the reverse actuation and did find myself at the wrong lever at times but now cannot fault it,wouldn't use it for racing but for any rider who wants to ride all day without the problems of bent chainrings..... I would recommend it.

madmtber (Apr 22, 2012 at 10:41)

yook????? took.

[Reply]

knobzy (Aug 14, 2008 at 8:06)

shame like they said, most high end bikes can't handle it due to the lack of ISCG tabs. I know my bike relys on the tabs pressed between the frame and BB! so its not even a close choice for me ( not that i would ) my raceface diablous and e13 work perfetly fine and i've been running one ring up front for years. Its a GREat idea, few years down the road, the price will drop alot and it will be available to any bike that wants it, regardless of build on tabs or sandwiched.

brule Mod Plus (Aug 20, 2008 at 14:40)

This is obviously not a product geared towards you as you run a single ring and most likely shuttle and DH a lot. It is for the riders that grind up and bomb down or spend 5 hours in the saddle riding all over the place.

[Reply]

aenema (Aug 14, 2008 at 7:55)

Major issue is chain path in relation to pivot point. VPP, parallel link, single pivots, all are designed to work best with a certain size chainring, typically around a 36 tooth. Elevated pivot points give you that rearward travel that flows so well over the sharp hits but do not work well in the small ring. I own a Canfield Balance and would hate being stuck with a 22 tooth ring. Tons of pedal kickback. If they made it in 36 tooth with a reduction in gear ratios to shift, I think it would appeal to a lot more frame designs. Sacrifice some clearance but I would take suspension performance over clearance any day.

[Reply]

norefill (Aug 14, 2008 at 9:00)

May be interesting on a DH bike - not for the gears, but because you could run a smaller ring up front giving an extra inch or so of clearance. Stick with the increased clearance or the frame builder could drop the BB by the same amount, giving a much lower center of gravity.

bigburd (Aug 14, 2008 at 9:27)

but then your crank arms would be closer to the floor by the same amout you drop the BB

[Reply]

DirtSavant (Aug 14, 2008 at 9:10)

If it's lower maintenance than a front derailleur, it sounds good to me. Plus, this is the first version of it. I personally won't be getting one soon, but I hope it has some success and sticks around. Truvativ will improve it then, it will work better and be lighter, and the price will come down. Then I'll get one!

[Reply]

alexthebikeguy84 (Aug 14, 2008 at 10:12)

^^ It dosent really matter ...well it does, just dont be stupid about it Wink

I notice all these prices listed.....I'd hate to see what labour would cost!!I mean the cottage industry counts for some "freebees" but at the standard rate of what...$45 dollars an hour...ouch!

[Reply]

another-addict (Aug 14, 2008 at 9:52)

if all the parts are able to be replaced seperate than it elminates the issue you present in number 7. It can be broken down and each part is seperate so you should be able to get a single part of the whole unit for replacement. The ability to shift in any situation is pretty cool though. there are a lot of benefits there.

PissedOffCil (Aug 15, 2008 at 5:31)

I still doubt that spares will be cheap (compared to a new FD) and really wonder up to what point they'll sell them but that is pure speculation! I think they disassembled it to show the internals not necessarily because they'll sell all the parts as spares.

[Reply]

02tbri (Aug 15, 2008 at 10:20)

i think the concept is pretty good, but i dont have any problem with running 2 ring and a blackspire stinger up front, has been fine.

clearance could be better, ive managed to smack the bash ring so hard that the chainring also distorts, i think the crank arms are bent =/

but thats beside the point, its cheap, it works and i dont think anyone NEEDS anything like this unless they want some bragging rights.

lets face it if you go out riding with a bunch of your mates i dont think you will notice your bike performing any better than the others

[Reply]

redeye666 (Jun 30, 2011 at 14:50)

Basicly the hammerschmidt is planetry gearing taken out off an epileptic automatic gearbox, they just transferring automotive technology to the bike and taking too F'ing long.

I can see in 3-4 years time they will come out with an epileptic cassette for the rear.

In another 4-5 years time they will reintroduce the epileptic cassette, this with an Electronic Control Unit, load and speed sensors to provide automatic shifting. All this shit should of been out in the late 90's

[Reply]

cchowe03 (Aug 14, 2008 at 11:41)

seriously!? half a grand for that thing?? im just gonna stick to the basic-standard set up. You dont even really need a bashguard, i have never gotten stuck clearing a obstacle. Its real innovative, but id rather spend that money on booze or stippers

[Reply]

sucker27 (Aug 14, 2008 at 1:44)

how about a Truvativ HammerSchmidt + Rohloff SpeedHub combo?

andix (Aug 14, 2008 at 3:24)

that would be useless. Rohloff covers a wide gear-ratio i think. so you already have the range of a 3x9 setup covered by the rohloff only. is that right?

NickHancock (Aug 14, 2008 at 5:48)

yup ur right cos i ran a rohloff with a 38t n that covered all the gears pretty much

audeo03 (Aug 15, 2008 at 4:51)

Rohloff is 14 speed! Why would you want a 28 speed AM/FR bike!? Jeez...

[Reply]

GarethC (Aug 14, 2008 at 2:31)

forf*cksake man nearly choked when i seen the price they should have put a warning

[Reply]

trolleydude (Aug 14, 2008 at 2:46)

If your going to spend all that, why not just go all the way and get a Rohloff speedhub, and not bother with the expense of and hassle of maintaining a decent rear derailleur setup? Utterly redundant piece of kit.

acadian Plus (Aug 14, 2008 at 2:53)

On a full suspension bike, the Rohloff adds a significant amount of weight to the rear wheel (unsprung mass) which will adversely affect rear wheel traction. on a full suspension bike, I rather have the extra weight be low and centered, like the HammerSchmidt in this case. Rohloff would work well on a HT.

trolleydude (Aug 14, 2008 at 5:21)

Still seems pretty pointless to me. Presumably this thing is for people who want more reliable, better shifting, and it's a lot of money to just improve shifting at the front.

[Reply]

driver-bob (Aug 14, 2008 at 8:31)

To really work it's going to take a lot of bike companies to start fitting ISCG tabs to their AM bikes. Right now the mounting design is really limiting the market and aftermarket upgrades.

I'd be tempted if it worked with my frame, but I don't have ISCG so it's a no-go straight away.

[Reply]

mark523 (Aug 14, 2008 at 15:49)

now they ned something like that for the rear.... no rear derailleur to bash off or hanges to bend that would be what i would by. if you like to have more gears this is great but most FR guys run single ring and everyone (but single seed) has a rear set up so thats a bigger market for SRAM

[Reply]

makripper (Aug 14, 2008 at 20:09)

thats stupid! maybe i'll get one if they dont get phased out. I think companies are developing all sorts of weird things these days to cash in on the "biking getting popular" thing. Its sad really. but all the companies are coming up with crazy "advancements" these days. like the 1.125 and 1.5 combo. GIVE US A F"ING BREAK!!! and with the amount of complexity and it taking 2 years do "develop" means that it might take another 4 to get it right and perfect. who knows? If my front derailler stops workiing on the trail. i can just ride without one. but what about this. if it breaks? stops working. malfunctions? then what? have fun walking!

paul-bikes (Aug 15, 2008 at 20:50)

nobody called 1.25 to 1.5 headtubes a breakthrough, and they are a good idea if saving weight without compromising much strength is within your budget.

bkbroiler (Aug 17, 2008 at 19:03)

ya like zero stack for single crown forks, for the am segment like this is intended. I say let em innovate! Like um...air forks, hydro brakes, vpp, dw link. It all gets cheaper eventually

[Reply]

gastonbx (Jan 16, 2010 at 17:30)

Guys, I have made a fans page in facebook, to promote this device. I Took some of the photos, I will add mines too, become fan if you want.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Truvativ-Hammerscmidt-Owners-club/252610642271?ref=mf

[Reply]

flikende (Aug 24, 2008 at 12:25)

well, it will definitely be better for freeriders that can't shuttle runs, and have to go back up the hill themselves. and it won't be heavy, because think about how much less maaterial is needed in the end- no derailleur post, no front derailleur, plus it's truvativ, so you know it's going to be light.

[Reply]

Osten (Aug 14, 2008 at 21:13)

I tried these today. They shift so fast, no need for pedaling, can even use them on a fixy bike. Tons of more ground clearance too.

timidfreerider (Aug 16, 2008 at 15:33)

At first putting it on a fixie sounds great but the pawls that lock the planetary system, would they ratchet similarly to a freewheel? Because that would eliminate the fixie portion and just make it a cheater speed bike... I dont mean to shoot you down or anything, just thinking... =]

[Reply]

nojzilla (Aug 14, 2008 at 8:30)

hmm looks interesting
bit heavy tho.One thing id say is the iscg mounts on my bike (a u.s company with a good reputation) are sooo in the wrong place!! ive had to modify my chain guides by extending the mount holes to get the right amount of clockwise rotation for the tension wheel to be in the right place.(above the bottom of the bash gaurd so it doesent hit obsticles)
international standard? yeah right!
i could see that being problem with a system like this

audeo03 (Aug 15, 2008 at 9:02)

Let me guess... Specialized. What you need is a boomerang that is mirrored. Like the Gammut. By rotating the boomerang 180 degrees about the front plane, you will get just what you need! I ran into this problem with an SX Trail I had... Maybe this is due to the fact that there is ISCG and ISCG 05 (and ISCG 03 according to this write up???).

[Reply]

racealot (Aug 14, 2008 at 15:15)

This is the future forsure, no more external shifting systems, I am all for it soley because I own two bikes (one 4" travel and one DH) that have no braze-on's to stop cable housing for a front derailleur and both sport 05 ISCG. This can be considered evolution to the DH racing scene adding occational pedalling sections within a course. A prime example was the Red Bull PSYCHOSIS, anyone that has rode that course will relate....

[Reply]

djivotno (Aug 14, 2008 at 5:33)

If some day, they make... like a 5-speed one i'd go for it and lose some unsuspended weight on the back of my DH rig (not to mention the big o'l Saint lupm that eats the rocks Wink

) I hope they go for it and do it an OCT Big Grin

i'll sure be glad to spend the money on it Smile

I imagine a hardtail with a horizontal dropout in the end and a HD chain... and gears (well... 2 but never the less Smile

) would be a bit fun Big Grin

[Reply]

wickrider (Aug 14, 2008 at 7:11)

cool product but i dont see it being popular.
the price and the fact that , beside the instant shifting , it dosent offer someting more that a 2 ring + bash guard config in front.
a good , lite weight 2 ring setup whit E13 SRS , well adjusted gives pretty much teh same result and is bombproof IMO.

northshorebiker94 (Aug 14, 2008 at 12:52)

how do you run a 2 ring setup w/ a SRS?????

zudukai (Aug 14, 2008 at 17:46)

... DRS?

[Reply]

slyfink (Aug 14, 2008 at 6:57)

One of the biggest bonuses I can see of this system is no more dropped chains and no more chain suck... that would be the cat's @ss.... and to the person asking how many times people catch the bash guards, you should see my bash ring! it's pretty banged up. Interestingly enough, the bash ring on my xc/am bike takes way more of a beating than the one on my DH bike...

valtra (Aug 14, 2008 at 15:21)

I bet. I only ride XC and you dont huck over obstacles like DH. You grind out over logs rocks and the likes of that. So I am so glad I've got a bash guard.

[Reply]

dillonchamberlain (Aug 14, 2008 at 0:53)

radical design benefiting the future of mtb!
i love it.

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darkelement (Aug 14, 2008 at 18:06)

so it's basicly a slippery clutch?

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downhiller372 (Aug 14, 2008 at 0:29)

hopefully there will be more of these and they will relpace front shifters so that they arent so expensive

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DIRTCONVERT (Aug 14, 2008 at 5:10)

All the hype aside, I think it will hit the market around the 500.00 mark. These preliminary cost figures are not based on anything "real" just speculation. Once word gets out and interest at a local bike shop level rises, you will see this set up become affordable. I would buy it, same as I would buy a gear driven wheel setup. Weight is not that much of an issue when its directly under the main mass of your body. Great innovation.

acadian Plus (Aug 14, 2008 at 5:18)

Shifter HammerSchmidt X.0 2-speed front with clamp $114
Shifter HammerSchmidt X.9 2-speed front with clamp $57

Crankset HammerSchmidt All Mountain 170 24T ISCG 05 (22T & ICSG 03 included) $595
Crankset HammerSchmidt All Mountain 175 24T ISCG 05 (22T & ICSG 03 included) $595
Crankset HammerSchmidt Freeride 165 24T ISCG 05 (22T & ICSG 03 included) $650
Crankset HammerSchmidt Freeride 170 24T ISCG 05 (22T & ICSG 03 included) $650
Crankset HammerSchmidt Freeride 175 24T ISCG 05 (22T & ICSG 03 included) $650

Bottom Bracket HammerSchmidt All Mountain 68/73 $55
Bottom Bracket HammerSchmidt All Mountain 83 $55
Bottom Bracket HammerSchmidt Freeride 68/73 $55
Bottom Bracket HammerSchmidt Freeride 83 $55

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mtbbritain (Aug 26, 2008 at 10:46)

Nothing this different will be without disadvantages but there is one advantage that I don't think has been mentioned here:

You get to run a 'Short' cage rear mech. These are less vulnerable to damage and are said to shift better plus the chainline stays the same so no 'crossover' gears. Not sure if you can run a short cage with a double ring and bash?

One part that concerns me however is the friction loss:

MBR: "In the field test, we noticed considerable friction losses in overdrive mode. How high are the compared with a derailleur?"

Product Manager Brian Bos: "Losses are integral to the system - I can't argue that they don't exist. We haven't yet carried out a precise 1:1 comparison with a derailleur. Howerver we'll have to consider doing this. Depending on how well maintained they are deraileurs have a greater or lesser degree of friction loss. Also it's important to note that our testing shows that efficiency actually increases as the product ages."

They've been developing a friction prone product like a planetary gearing system for two years and they haven't compared the efficiency with a derailleur? Surely it can't be that bad though as the magazine didn't pan it for this. I'm not interested in race timing but will it really slow me down on my long rides?

Some other disadvantages Weight: not sure what the hike is over my XTR setup but it's not ultimately important.

Need ISCG tabs on your BB: Got those.

Reverse shifting: Who cares? OK, I suppose if you have several bikes it could get annoying.

They say "Our system is just as well encapsulated as hubs, inner bearings and control sets" if the inner bearings they mean are in ISIS botton brackets then there could be a problem!

It could make an interesting twin speed as has been suggested above, some of the bombproof simplicity of singlespeed but with a proper granny gear too...

For the price it would need an excellent warranty.

An exciting product I would love to test long term. Go on SRAM, send me one.

Gareth.

mountains4me (Aug 26, 2008 at 16:45)

It seriously looks like it would need a lower chain tensioner or the chain is going to whip all over the place on the bottom side. That will be an issue for those who are bombing down rough trails. It looks like a cool product for AM and DH/FR for those who have to pedal up. But price and some of the other issues noted will need the time test to see how this product turns out. I would buy one if it turns out to be reliable, low maintenance, lower price, and they put a lower chain tensioner on it.

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paul-bikes (Aug 15, 2008 at 20:47)

its pricey, but really cool.

id like to try that with a single rear cog on a jump bike, low gear for park, high gear for jumping etc... id like that.

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CrayC (Aug 17, 2008 at 0:20)

These Cranks are are if it works.
I Â´think it does, itÂ´s from truvativ not from CHIMPANSO ehh Shimano. Saint and Hone both of them broke on my bike these Cranks are dangerous!!!

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pbuser102331 Plus (Aug 14, 2008 at 3:47)

i like it a lot but wether or not i have the money is another thing all together,ha ha for sale diabolus cranks and chainguide.

bradwalton Plus (Aug 14, 2008 at 7:03)

not sure what kind of riding you're doing, but nothing is going to hold up like those Diabolus cranks, and a DRS guide works perfect. I would think this technology will definitely be popular with the singlespeed crowd though.

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d-petrovic (Aug 15, 2008 at 9:08)

way to much
rather spend my money on new saint stuff

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iggz (Aug 14, 2008 at 1:00)

I like the idea and how they brought it together but I don't think I'd ever run one.

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blove (Aug 15, 2008 at 5:31)

This is a cool idea but cant see it sticking around long. given the choice ill go with the new saint cranks no question.

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livinontheline (Aug 14, 2008 at 20:58)

this has already been thought of.. ive seen soemthing much like it,.. but NOT exactly like it before.plkease tell me where cuz i cant seem to find the video anymore

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fernando1990 (Aug 14, 2008 at 15:29)

Nice, gearbox in bike Smile

Chain will never fall from chainring. Maybe someday they do version with clutch Big Grin

Great! But price must fall...

UncleCliffy (Aug 15, 2008 at 8:50)

Nicolai and Bionicon are working on their own version of this called the B-Boxx. It comes with an internal clutch. Tentative release date is 2010... http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2999118&postcount=244

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hatchleader (Aug 14, 2008 at 0:25)

Lots of talk on Uk forums about this and general consensus is that its a good idea but doesn't look very well sealed against mud like we get over here!

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bomberdave (Aug 14, 2008 at 13:21)

after i saw it i was wondering if they could create a similar system that would slide over the freewheel on a hub to replace the rear derailer, a 6-7 speed kinda thing.

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Gout-Scout (Aug 14, 2008 at 16:44)

Props to any Co. trying to innovate and push the technology further. These efforts aren't cheap to try.

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SMN86 (Aug 18, 2008 at 0:04)

if everyone starts running these its gonna make things interesting for companies like e13!

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jcinkits (Sep 24, 2008 at 21:42)

if it aint broke don't fix it...thanks boys and girls but i'll wait for it to be tried and true by everyone else before i lay down 800 + big ones. coppertop.

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jonkeast (Aug 14, 2008 at 8:17)

could you run single speed in the back with that thing
that would be sweet

forgotmyloginagain1 (Aug 14, 2008 at 8:53)

sure I thought about the same thing.

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lindenpenner (Aug 14, 2008 at 12:32)

looks good but heavy and would not make much of a diffrence for free riding because you don't switch gears of pedal a whole but better for almountian riding not free ride

bomberdave (Aug 14, 2008 at 13:22)

wieghs about 30 grams more then a reg set-up according to the chart for the freeride

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wuwanchen (Aug 14, 2008 at 0:51)

anybody know where to buy one?
want it

BTW, will the facing tool work with "parktool" stuff?

racealot (Aug 14, 2008 at 15:07)

Why would that matter? It is its own tool, like a GXP BB cup remover, it has its purpose, Park has theirs...

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keenanmoi (Aug 14, 2008 at 8:09)

the fact that it only supports ISCG '03 and '05 tabs is a real disappointment.

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mudd (Aug 28, 2008 at 7:04)

Interesting to see how well it'll hold up over time, and how well it takes the abuse of us hardcore riders. Stay tuned?

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RalfB (Sep 30, 2008 at 1:04)

Interesting similar product has been on the market in Europe for a while.
http://www.schlumpf.ch/antriebe_engl.htm

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jeunefred (Jan 15, 2010 at 23:05)

I usually don't judge right away by the price but 800 is a lot of money!!

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noofaloof (Aug 15, 2008 at 0:00)

sweet, i love it when people come out with bizzare crap

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john--b (Aug 14, 2008 at 17:23)

Wow... Mountain bikes have come a long ways in not to many years!

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steve2210 (Aug 14, 2008 at 10:06)

isnt the cable and hoseing susposed to go on the side of the frame not on the bottom.

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c-radDH (Aug 14, 2008 at 11:49)

ill wait for it to become cheeper

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bikybiky (Aug 14, 2008 at 13:44)

funny comparing the chainring clearence with an 44T while tjÂ°he hammerschmidt is 38t at it heaviest

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jazzboy (Aug 14, 2008 at 9:13)

I was about to ad a front derailleur and double crank on my Demo 7, I will now wait to see this beast.

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kingfisher1 (Aug 14, 2008 at 3:38)

for a first timer it look sick, im sure in a year or 2 they will find all the bugs.

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drumerbumer9 (Aug 14, 2008 at 8:38)

love it but tall price to pay. would be good for dh w/ that 24tooth and lots of clearence!

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phunkt Plus (Aug 14, 2008 at 3:37)

very intresting .should allow for lower stable frame bottom bracket hight.
am a fan of that.jump bike compatible we hope.?

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wadesimsonswanabe (Aug 14, 2008 at 14:47)

cool but heavy on the wallet

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wehlami (Aug 14, 2008 at 12:01)

seems to be very vunerable to dirt, shit and sand. im a bit sceptic with it and the price is too high.

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keewee13 (Aug 14, 2008 at 14:52)

Now you can hammer through schimdt...

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stinkyrider17 (Aug 14, 2008 at 15:10)

that looks like it would be awesome. too bad kona dont put ISCG tabs on my stinky!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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m47h13u (Aug 14, 2008 at 7:20)

Deal breaker for most of us, it's ISCG old.

brule Mod Plus (Aug 20, 2008 at 14:35)

It will work on either set up, two different back plates come with the after market set ups.

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Arioth (Aug 14, 2008 at 2:19)

This is epic move. I love it but i dont have ISCG mount on my all-mtn bike

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blackmagic (Aug 14, 2008 at 0:33)

still it's too much for me... Frown

but I want it so bad

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slowrampage (Aug 14, 2008 at 6:29)

looks really good but the question is the maintenance

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JimmyNeutron (Aug 14, 2008 at 8:23)

nice product and look's eficient but a little noisy

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god1 (Aug 14, 2008 at 3:27)

i dnt get it its made by sram bt its got truvitv writen allover it?

acadian Plus (Aug 14, 2008 at 3:33)

It's a Truvativ product - SRAM owns the brand, just like Avid and RockShox.

The Truvativ brand covers BBs, cranks, chainrings, bars, stems, seatposts, etc...
Avid covers brakes
SRAM covers derailleurs, cassettes, triggers, etc..
and we all know what RockShox covers..

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Hockeyman10 (Sep 1, 2009 at 16:33)

gay

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Gang (Aug 14, 2008 at 22:57)

Good ideal!Great change

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DAMZ (Aug 14, 2008 at 13:20)

HAMMERSCHMIDT!! I want one!

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Ro3y (Aug 17, 2008 at 1:45)

now yust wait to shimano to make something like hammersmitdh.....

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f0n888 (Aug 17, 2008 at 17:37)

cool good if you need more clearance for rocks and stuff

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omnikrom (Aug 14, 2008 at 0:14)

soon bike will fly! look very good

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omzig81 (Aug 16, 2008 at 6:00)

Good idea! Smile

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LifeGiver (Aug 16, 2008 at 7:29)

I must buy it!!!!!!!

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bighitrider12 (Aug 14, 2008 at 16:05)

I WANT ONE!!!!

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pinunderjeep (Aug 18, 2008 at 0:52)

beastly

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