Video: Helmet Safety Comparison

Dec 16, 2012 at 9:56
Dec 16, 2012
by Scott Secco
 
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ARF Presents: Certified vs Non-Certified Bicycle Helmet Impact Test from Athlete Recovery Fund on Vimeo.


Come along with pro riders Mike Clark, Brandon Dosch and Chad Kerley. This video shows without a doubt the tremendous difference in protection between certified and non certified helmets. We tried to simplify the physics as much as possible but the results are undeniable. Make sure if you are riding you are wearing the proper protection. It could mean the difference between riding again or not.

Title Photo by: Eric Palmer
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239 Comments

  • + 152
flag querhoch (Dec 16, 2012 at 9:58)
 life threatening death?
  • + 44
flag Jacob1993 (Dec 16, 2012 at 10:44)
 Is there any other kind? Razz
  • + 111
flag nojzilla (Dec 16, 2012 at 11:05)
 good name for a metal band!
  • + 39
flag rollsroyce (Dec 16, 2012 at 12:37)
 FUUUUDGE!!! thats my helmet!! I wear that helmet!!! damn you protec!
  • + 8
flag caunleqmfj (Dec 16, 2012 at 12:45)
 damn, i also wear that same protec helmet.
  • + 7
flag rollsroyce (Dec 16, 2012 at 12:53)
 dude, I feel your pain. I thought that helmet was good, and now I look back on all the times ive fallen and have been dizzy. its not becuase it was a big fall and the helmet protected me like I thought, it was because this helmet sucks shit!
  • + 6
flag tyler-durden (Dec 16, 2012 at 13:46)
 Seriously? You actually thought that that thin ass protec helmet is certified? Certified to look good on your head maybe, and thats about it.
  • + 2
flag Lester22291 (Dec 16, 2012 at 13:47)
 what helmet is that? i wear a protec B2 and its CPSC certified
  • + 10
flag tyler-durden (Dec 16, 2012 at 14:01)
 Pro-tec Bucky Lasek. It's a skateboarding helmet so lots of bikers use it. I see it especially at skateparks, where I would not want to fall wearing it lol. it's like your B2, but without the thick foam on the inside. it's just a shell with a little bit of soft foam so it fits peoples heads.
  • - 36
flag James-Carey (Dec 16, 2012 at 14:21) (Below Threshold) show comment
 They are better than nothing, people know whats up, and when you fall you tend not to hit your head, yeah its why people dont wear helmets, then they do hit their head, but not as hard as a straight up drop... those helmets have saved a lot of lives, and a lot of dudes, but it all gets overlooked because of a couple of high profile cases. what about all the incidents where people are injured with cpc certified helmets. If your falling hard enough to have no control over your fall to your head you are fucked either way. Its also worth noting in a small knock situation the non cps certified helmets are better for preventing concussion. say looping out 6 ft from an abubica to the back of your head, or washing out on a berm. Your falling 30 ft mid air off a jump then yeah i would rather have the cps one, but i have my legs to break my fall first, so the g is lower. Also the tests show a new helmet, im not doubting it, but would be interested to see how a 2 yea old helmet compares to a new one, as us riders hit our heads a lot and ruin our helmets without realising it
  • + 6
flag krash8bit (Dec 16, 2012 at 14:28)
 Can confirm that the Pro-tec Ace is also CPSC certified =] after a slight mini heart attack leading me to go check mine
  • - 104
flag EyERYDEproud (Dec 16, 2012 at 14:35) (Below Threshold) show comment
 i feel safer without a helmet, it always goes over my eyes and i cant see and crash
  • + 19
flag CretinBC (Dec 16, 2012 at 14:42)
 Maybe your wearing it wrong?... Never ever had that. If you wear the helmet right it shouldn't be slipping around and falling over your eyes.
  • - 39
flag James-Carey (Dec 16, 2012 at 14:44) (Below Threshold) show comment
 Right, i am a complete hemet nazi, but i take the risks i do because i know what they are and weigh them up. stuff like this doesnt do that and just shows one side of the story.
  • + 2
flag tyler-durden (Dec 16, 2012 at 17:10)
 Jamer, you can't DENY that a certified helmet is going to be safer than just a flimsy shell with soft foam for comfort...and yeah they may be better than nothing, but if you're already dropping the $30 or w/e it is on a helmet because you want to be "safe", then you might as well be buying a certified helmet, that if something were to happen to you, your chances of injury would be lower.
  • + 12
flag Andrew-Taylor (Dec 16, 2012 at 17:13)
 I think EyERYDEproud is wearing his helmet wrong...
  • + 9
flag VTwintips (Dec 16, 2012 at 19:37)
 If you argue with a scientifically proven fact, your gonna have a bad time. Jamer looses.
  • + 1
flag derschbag1 (Dec 16, 2012 at 21:45)
 Im so happy I got rid of my clear pro-tec helmet. Im not sure how Ive survived after wearing that kind of helmet for 3 seasons.
  • - 11
flag rffr (Dec 16, 2012 at 22:20) (Below Threshold) show comment
 LMAO... bike certified. Unless it's DOT, it's not certified for bullcrap.
  • + 3
flag James-Carey (Dec 16, 2012 at 23:41)
 Your missing my point here. All I'm saying is that you don't fall straight up on your head and they do help. Also n a small crash they do less damage. In a big crash no one can argue a certified helmet is worse. It just all that's going to happen is protec will stop making the lasek. Then there are a lot of riders won't have any comfy helmet options so they won't wear one. I would rather see people wear this than nothing. I will probably get neg propped for this too. But I felt I should at least try go give my reasoning
  • + 1
flag VTwintips (Dec 16, 2012 at 23:51)
 No, what you just said makes sense.
  • + 1
flag everchop (Dec 17, 2012 at 1:22)
 Your missing the point . Didn't u hear him say 'I might as well be wearing a hat!'Wearing one isn't better tha nothing, it is nothing.Yes 99.5% of crashes we don't land our heads. After over a decade of riding serious, i can say it's purely a matter of odds.
Legends like Ron Wilkenson are permently brain damaged and they had a fullface on. My friend was in hospital for 4 days last week with a bleeding brain after crashing at Lym. With that Protec on he'd be dead....your choice Wink
  • + 9
flag taletotell (Dec 17, 2012 at 3:58)
 As for those who prefer DOT, PB did a story on that. They're better in a 60mph to tree, but otherwise they are worse since they do less on small impacts. Don't use motoX helmets fir DH. They aren't designed for it.
  • + 3
flag alazamanza (Dec 17, 2012 at 4:36)
 if it cant save you from a 1metre drop then its not "better than nothing" its less use than a tissue with some string tied to it!!
  • + 4
flag bikermaniac101 (Dec 17, 2012 at 4:44)
 I land on my head alot....
  • + 1
flag fade-to-black (Dec 17, 2012 at 4:47)
 i Got a POC one, expensive but it works really wel ive hit my head and i barely noticed
  • + 2
flag James-Carey (Dec 17, 2012 at 5:01)
 alazamanza when have you ever fallen straight on your head from one meter? Also @ everchop thats what i was saying, in a small crash you do less damage with a lasek as the rate of deceleration is slower, it is only when you fall hard enough to bottom out the padding it becomes unsafe
  • + 2
flag Sidor666 (Dec 17, 2012 at 5:55)
 1 thing I don't get.
They dropped this helmet form 1m, right?
g force = 10m/s^2
10m/s^2 * 1m .... how does it give you 800G??? The helmet weighs 80kg???
  • + 2
flag tcs2186 (Dec 17, 2012 at 7:16)
 the whole apparatus weighs prob 80 kg, that thing looked heavy, its meant to replicate the human body falling from that height, so the 800 G's does make sense because this is meant to simulate the human body falling from that height not just a helmet.
  • + 2
flag Sidor666 (Dec 17, 2012 at 7:45)
 So I was right, damn thing is heavy. All is clear to me now. Just wish there was a web page with Crash test comparison like it is with motorcycle helmets in SHARP test. sharp.direct.gov.uk
Oh one more thing comes to my mind, if you would drop like this on your head you'd still brake your neck....
  • + 1
flag dwdw (Dec 17, 2012 at 7:46)
 I'm not sure if I am seeing this correctly, but I don't think they are comparable helmets. Protec sells helmets that look very similar but have different foam inside. One if them is soft foam and is marketed towards skateboarding and low speed sports, the other has the styrofoam (for lack of a better word) and is designed for bikes. I think they used the soft foam and compared it to one with the hard foam.

If this is the case, it hardly seems a fair comparison.
  • + 5
flag Tristanssid (Dec 17, 2012 at 11:22)
 G is the measure of how quickly something accelerates/decelerates nothing to do with weight. If the time it takes to stop is 100th of the time it took to fall then its 100g. This test does assume the person has landed vertically from 1m on their head and their body is 100% rigid. I.e. Not a real possibility so you won't die from a 1m fall on your head unless you're unlucky.
However what this displays is that because the foam doesn't help decelerate your head until your head is touching the outer shell the head comes to a standstill in very little time. Long and short it, the foam will only protect you from small hits. Once the foam has been used you may as well be hitting the concrete.
  • + 3
flag James-Carey (Dec 17, 2012 at 13:58)
 Basically your saying what i said in a better way so wont get neg props... damn you and your good use of english
  • + 1
flag Tristanssid (Dec 17, 2012 at 15:06)
 I was on my phone so I didn't read all the replies. But yes, 1 up vote for you good sir
  • + 1
flag X1080experimentalX (Dec 17, 2012 at 16:33)
 Bro, shut up
Not usually one to be like that, but really, do you actually stand by what you are saying there?
  • + 1
flag wuzupjosh (Dec 17, 2012 at 22:24)
 its not only have wide it is non certifierd helmets use a retractabnle foam usually certifiedm break once
  • + 3
flag Tristanssid (Dec 18, 2012 at 6:53)
 In reply to X1080experimentalx yes I do if its aimed at me.
Wierldly enough certified foam (generally) when compressed due to moderate sized hits uses up some of its energy absorbing properties and it no longer as safe to use, the more/harder the hits the less safe it becomes. Often cheap helmets that aren't certified use foam that returns to its original shape and is no less safe to additional hits. Now in a kids skate park where the heights are low the non certified could be better as a "proper" helmet may be unsafe after the hundreds of hits it takes as we know kids don't replace them after a crash.
However we are travelling at 20+mph hitting 6ft+ drops. We don't hit our head often but we potentially hit it hard. Wearing a helmet designed to take the hit you're potentially going to have is important. Don't wear a motorized helmet, because its designed to absorb impacts you'll never have on a mountain bike it has to be firmer and will infact let you get serious concussion, but at least you won't die. Don't wear a non certified as it won't absorb the impact and you'll receive a head trama.
  • + 1
flag X1080experimentalX (Dec 18, 2012 at 18:50)
 now i know, thanks
  • + 1
flag wuzupjosh (Dec 18, 2012 at 21:35)
 if your a racer like wc it could make sense also hitting big jumppps its hard to saytristansid
[Reply]
  • + 58
flag dave-m Plus (Dec 16, 2012 at 10:21)
 Doesn't that just show a comparison between one particular non-certified helmet vs a certified Bell helmet...at a Bell testing facility?

I'd like to see a more comprehensive testing of multiple non certified helmets at a non biased testing facility before coming to any conclusions.

This reads more like a Bell advertisement
  • + 16
flag Christoff7 (Dec 16, 2012 at 10:32)
 Yeah. I would have liked to have seen some others. POC especially as I feel they put a lot of work into their products.
  • + 13
flag Jacob1993 (Dec 16, 2012 at 10:52)
 I think the fact of the matter is, if a company is unwilling to have their helmet certified, chances are it doesn't live up to the standard set, regardless of which uncertified helmet it is.
  • + 5
flag Tomarse (Dec 16, 2012 at 11:33)
 Christoff, according to their website, POC helmets are certified, including the CPSC standard that was in this vid. Smile
  • + 11
flag junkyard11 (Dec 16, 2012 at 11:35)
 Basically they were testing out the pro-tec Bucky which is the most commonly used bmx helmet.. I love that unless in a comp, all three of those guys hardly ever wear helmets.
  • - 2
flag BikeTrials (Dec 16, 2012 at 12:40)
 They were testing on behalf of all helmets meeting CPSC standards, all helmets meeting or exceeding the CPSC standard should be considered equal and adequate.
  • + 4
flag Jacob1993 (Dec 16, 2012 at 14:13)
 @BikeTrials, if one helmet simply meets the CPSC standard and another far exceeds it, how can they be considered equal? Both adequate yes, but not necassarily equal.
  • + 0
flag BikeTrials (Dec 16, 2012 at 14:18)
 Because it's a fail or pass NOT a letter grade system.
  • - 5
flag VTwintips (Dec 16, 2012 at 19:39) (Below Threshold) show comment
 You're an idiot.
  • + 3
flag CT-2 (Dec 16, 2012 at 21:13)
 dave-m is that really all you gathered from this video? How in the world was this a biased test, or an advertisement? They mentioned it was at Easton Bell sports, once, at the very beginning. Also they didn't even mention the other certified helmet being tested was a Bell helmet at all, and in fact I hadn't even realized that until reading these comments.

What is pretty clear is the difference between a certified, and non certified helmet (regardless of brand, or how many they tested). THAT was the point of this video. To get some awareness out there and to help people, who might not otherwise know this, and might feel their uncertified helmet is safe enough (which it clearly is not). What other conclusion you could possibly come to, I do not know... more comprehensive testing? non biased facility? I'm honestly unsure if you were just trolling, or you totally missed the point here (along with so many other users who posted below; getting into arguments over moto vs dh, wearing a crappy helmet vs no helmet at all, etc.).
  • + 1
flag HaydenRyan (Dec 17, 2012 at 0:27)
 Actually, that's the way a standard works, you either meet it or you don't. You don't get a bunch of data on a helmet case. It simply reads certified, or not.
  • - 3
flag lenmerderdenfer (Dec 17, 2012 at 0:55)
 So, how many of you riders have heads made of a small metal ball? It seems the test dummy does.
  • + 0
flag Sidor666 (Dec 17, 2012 at 6:05)
 lenmerderdenfer it's not about what you head is made of it's all about how well the helmet absorbs energy or simpler how does the helmet slow down your head during crush. Too slow = no energy absorbtion = head damage. Too fast = it's like having no helmet at all, your head just crushes into interior of the helmet.
  • + 0
flag liveless (Dec 17, 2012 at 6:48)
 Ayeh, but when they say "you'd be dead at that one meter drop" they are basically saying that you need to be 100% stiff with your whole body (neck not moving at all during impact to absorb some force to body) to validify those results.
I won't deny that the certified helmets are safer and stronger, but these testing machines can't imitate real life situations accurately.
  • + 2
flag stikmanglaspell (Dec 17, 2012 at 8:53)
 @Dave-M the guy in the video from ARF, Aaron Cooke, his brother Allan is the Bell sports marketing guy. That being said, ARF is just looking out for the best interest of the riders, they would come profile safety at any lab i'd bet.
[Reply]
  • + 28
flag freemanbr (Dec 16, 2012 at 9:59)
 Is there a website with a list, or references for approved helmets ?? It would be awesome to know in advance wich ones are or not, specially when you are dealing with online shopping.
  • + 9
flag Thrillride (Dec 16, 2012 at 10:16)
 Seeing this video makes me scared for all those bmx kids who never even wear a helmet. Shit, when I have a kid he will have a motorcycle helmet on his head while he rides bicycles!
  • + 53
flag kev-roberts (Dec 16, 2012 at 10:20)
 don't know if you seen a while back, motorbike helmets aren't as safe as mtb specific helmets... they're designed for very, very different impacts and speeds
  • - 68
flag ktmmxrider (Dec 16, 2012 at 10:22) (Below Threshold) show comment
 LOL no. That article was terribly biased. I think that most people will agree that DH helmets are not safer. Tell me how hitting your head on the ground in a motorcycle is different than hitting your head on the ground riding DH.
  • + 23
flag tyler-bmx-77 (Dec 16, 2012 at 10:27)
 my moto helmet snapped my clavical
  • + 2
flag hankyman (Dec 16, 2012 at 10:30)
 @tyler-bmx-77, riding dh and crashing, your head is hitting rocks and roots etc. while crashing a motorcycle, your head slides along a smooth road. those impacts need to be absorbed differently.
  • + 11
flag ktmmxrider (Dec 16, 2012 at 10:33)
 Tell me, at what time during a motocross race are you riding along a smooth road? People don't use motorcycle helmets, they use motocross helmets.
  • + 24
flag jagl968 (Dec 16, 2012 at 10:37)
 The main point is the speed of the impact. The reason mtb specific helmets are better for mtb is because you'll be going about 20 mph on a bike, but you'll be going anywhere from 30-70 mph on a mx bike, so the point is, one needs to be able to handle an impact at higher speeds, whereas the other needs to handle impacts at mtb speeds.
  • + 12
flag jezzah (Dec 16, 2012 at 10:42)
 When riding moto you are going far, far faster than riding MTB. MTB helmets need to be softer to absorb the softer impacts, whereas moto helmets need to be much harder as the impacts are higher speed. Hence why Moto helmets are less safe unless you're a World cup level rider.
  • - 23
flag ktmmxrider (Dec 16, 2012 at 10:42) (Below Threshold) show comment
 So you're telling me that there is no low speed impacts in motocross at all? Couldn't be more wrong. And you are also implying that you get up to roughly 120km/h in a motocross race. Also pretty wrong. Also implying that you only go 20mph in a DH race is also wrong. Moto helmets don't just ignore speeds lower than 30mph or whatever as far as safety, they have to provide adequate protection throughout the whole spectrum.

Edit: If anyone is wondering if I have any motocross experience, or am just talking out of my ass... have been racing MX for 13 years and DH for around 4. Have used both styles of helmets for DH, and had many big crashes in both.
  • + 9
flag Hmason8192 (Dec 16, 2012 at 10:47)
 Yeah but to provide good protection throughout the spectrum they have to be harder then MTB helmats (meaning that impact foam in the slow mo on the video) for the higher speeds that a Moto can achieve
  • + 8
flag Jacob1993 (Dec 16, 2012 at 10:50)
 Yes an mx helmet will provide 'adequate' protection throughout the spectrum, however the mtb helmet design can be focused to provide even better protection for low speeds. Sure an mx helmet will be adequate if you fall at low speed but perhaps the mtb helmet would have been better i.e. a little softer to better dissapate the forces whereas the harder mtx helmet will do the job, but not quite as well at that speed.

If you catch my drift Razz
  • - 6
flag ktmmxrider (Dec 16, 2012 at 10:51) (Below Threshold) show comment
 @Hmason Ever heard of multi-density impact foam? Moto helmets also generally have thicker padding than MTB helmets do to help with this.

@Jacob at the same time, what happens when the speeds in a DH race are higher? Then you will be less likely to be protected at all from the speed because the DH helmet will just fold and crumple. Just look at all the pictures of cracked DH lids out there, I can almost guarantee the mx helmet will be not as affected.
  • + 6
flag Jacob1993 (Dec 16, 2012 at 10:55)
 Yes, I'm not trying to argue, just provide another angle. Mutli-density foam can only go so far, there's still a compromise. At which point the mtb helmet will do a better job. Also mtb helmets tend to be (aside from TLD Razz) a lot cheaper and also lighter/more comfortable than mx helmets so why wear an mx helmet and risk wrecking something far more expensive when the cheaper option works just as well if not better at low speed impacts.
  • + 5
flag StinkyKieran (Dec 16, 2012 at 10:58)
 @ktmmxrider, motorbike helmets are also designed to protect from penetrative impacts at much higher speeds than mountainbikes will reach. So, harder shell and harder foam, so wont absorb impacts as well at lower speeds. Which can lead to increased likelyhood of concussions etc. Having read the article thats the main point i took from it.
  • - 11
flag ktmmxrider (Dec 16, 2012 at 11:01) (Below Threshold) show comment
 @Jacob I would say lighter for sure, not more comfy. It all depends on what you are used to. I'm not really trying to argue that DH helmets are safe (cause I wear one too lol), it more annoys me the stigma that surrounds MX helmets, when in reality, most people on this site have never put a lot of time in on one, and only go based on what other people say. If I recall correctly most of the data was provided by MTB helmet manufacturers. If you had equal data from both sources, then it would be more believable.

@stinky, go back and read the whole conversation, then comment.
  • + 3
flag tanner-greiner (Dec 16, 2012 at 11:02)
 A motocross helmet and any approved mororcycle helmet is tested and approved for higher impacts, a DH helmet is tested and approved to take the minor and medium intensity impacts, you are more likely to get a cuncussion wearing a moto helmet than a DH helmet while riding DH because its tested and designed for the bigger impacts more than small ones.
  • - 9
flag ktmmxrider (Dec 16, 2012 at 11:07) (Below Threshold) show comment
 I also failed to mention, how many DH helmets out there have emergency padding removal and are compatible with the eject system in case of serious neck injury?
  • + 8
flag scrippsranchDJ (Dec 16, 2012 at 11:09)
 MX helmets are not as safe because they do not slow down your brain in the event of a lower speed crash. The reason the helmets work is because they absorb the impact. Despite how much padding you have, an mx helmet has a much higher threshhold for breaking on the low end speed of the spectrum. This means the helmet does not crumple and you risk bouncing your brain off the inside of your skull. Imagine a scale of helmet durability, on the lowest end would be skateboarding helmets,mtb helmets, then mx helmets on the highend. When the helmet does not crumple during a heavy impact then all the force is transfered to a seperate location: your brain.

Use helmets designed for bicycle riding for that is what we do.
  • - 7
flag ktmmxrider (Dec 16, 2012 at 11:15) (Below Threshold) show comment
 I understand that, and see the logic behind it. But when you are looking at safety, it encompasses all of the situations where the helmet needs to provide protection, not just one aspect. I fully agree that a DH helmet is better at absorbing low speed impacts, not to the extent that some people think, but it is better; high quality moto helmets will use dual density eps liners to help provide low speed impact protection as well. But then think about high speed.... no one can say that DH riders go slow. There are many, many high speed situations in the DH world. In this situation, an MX helmet will FAR surpass the protection capabilities of a DH helmet.

My main point is that everyone tries to justify why DH helmets are "safer" by looking at one aspect of safety, when in reality, many different scenarios need to be protected against, and moto helmets provide protection for a lot more situations than a DH helmet does, making it safer overall.
  • + 1
flag nojzilla (Dec 16, 2012 at 11:19)
 heres something interesting
while looking for a new helmet i was checking the wieghts of TLD MX lids. I saw that different U.S an European standard lids had different wieghts... the Euro standard was around half a K lighter
so i guess the U.S standard and testing is more rigorous?

I chose an MX lid cos i read some where that they work better with a neck brace
  • - 4
flag ktmmxrider (Dec 16, 2012 at 11:23) (Below Threshold) show comment
 The main reason behind that is because DH lids don't come as far down on the back of your head, which allows you to look more forward on the trail. This leaves a bigger gap between the helmet and the neck brace, which leaves room for more next extension before getting stopped by the brace. Newer DH lids, like Fox and the D3, come farther down (ala moto style) so they work fine. Also Leatt's are very adjustable so you can adjust the Leatt to work with many DH helmets.
  • + 7
flag jezzah (Dec 16, 2012 at 11:23)
 Just because the helmet is a better shape after the impact does not make it safer. If a helmet has crumpled after an impact, it shows that it has absorbed that much force.

In my view to make a MX helmet worthwhile you need to be going at adequate speeds for downhill, so when Bryceland or Gwin use one it makes sense. Though when the 51 year old down the xc trail has one thinking bigger is better, its not the case.

Every helmet has its own target market, not for fashion but for function (bit of both to be fair). Regarding the eject system - its a new system and specialized have employed it in their new DH lid.
  • + 1
flag scrippsranchDJ (Dec 16, 2012 at 11:24)
 What does a mountain bike helmet not protect against?
  • - 7
flag ktmmxrider (Dec 16, 2012 at 11:30) (Below Threshold) show comment
 Think about a high speed impact. With DH helmets the eps is softer, to allow better absorption of low speed impacts. But at higher speeds, the softer eps will not protect as well because it will be fully compacted much faster Also went back and re-read the article, most of their sources are from 2005! Dual density EPS liners weren't around then, but they were when the article was written. Furthermore, they used older, non-current moto helmets against the newest DH helmets. And the amount of coverage that Kali got in that article was a little offputting as well. The article raises a few valid points, but was written very one sidedly And Jezzah, the eject system isn't new, its been around in the moto industry since the AMA made them mandatory in 2009.
  • + 3
flag FactoryPhil107 (Dec 16, 2012 at 11:31)
 @freemanbr here is a link to a list of both CPSC & ASTM certified helmets: www.helmets.org/dualcert.htm
These certs are recommended for both down hill mountain biking and Bmx.

ASTM: is a standard for multiple impact
  • + 6
flag nojzilla (Dec 16, 2012 at 11:37)
 ktmmxrider, yea thats what i read.(think it was the same article about DH vs MX lids) I originaly ordered a fox V3R carbon cos it was on sale but, when it got to me the mouth piece had a crack so i returned it. While waiting for the return to be processed the shop sold out in my size.Due to the pricing I ended up looking at the TLD MX lid.. something else interesting
the fox carbon V3R DH lid is only 20g lighter than the Euro standard composite TLD air MX
i think theres a LOT more testing to be done before someone can say an MX lid is bad for DH
  • + 3
flag scrippsranchDJ (Dec 16, 2012 at 11:38)
 The cushion inside is not really what's absorbing the grunt of the impact, its the actually deformation and crumpling of material that provides extra time and space for your head to slow down. Having your helmet not deform in a highspeed crash is one of the worst things to happen as far as wearing a helmet. Your brain bounces in your skull like the metal BB in a spray can.
  • + 2
flag jezzah (Dec 16, 2012 at 11:40)
 To be fair, the Fox V3R is basically a moto lid for DH.
  • - 2
flag ktmmxrider (Dec 16, 2012 at 11:42)
 @scrippsranch, I know, I'm talking about a dial density eps, not the liner of the helmet itself...
  • + 2
flag lenmerderdenfer (Dec 16, 2012 at 11:44)
 3 years ago, I bought a new certified leftover Animal MX helmet for 35 euros -it's super comfy! It has a lot of protection and is fully washable. I once put a Troy Lee Designs helmet on my head, and under pressure it hurt, poked and was overall unpleasant. I ride in the alps and reach some very high speeds at times so, I take my protection seriously. I read a very informative, exceptionally in depth study in helmet safety -the gist of the article is that, bigger is better.

Parallels can be made to the MTB helmets. www.westcoastweasels.com/archives/PDF/Blowing_the_Lid_Off.pdf

Ride loose!
  • - 7
flag Dorinfarley (Dec 16, 2012 at 11:57) (Below Threshold) show comment
 @ktmmxrider just let go of it already im sure everyone on here is tired of your rambling.
  • + 8
flag ndubl8 (Dec 16, 2012 at 12:12)
 why would you not wear a helmet that has been tested and designed specifically for the discipline you're riding? that's like saying football players hit harder, so i'll wear a football helmet for hockey, or vice versa. each helmet is designed specifically for its intended application, and this whole conversation is pretty pointless and going nowhere. how can anyone argue that a helmet designed for something entirely different will better protect you than a helmet designed specifically for that? you're talking out of your ass. sure, if you have a moto helmet and can't afford to buy a dh specific helmet at that point in time, then it will suffice for the time being. HOWEVER, it is unanimously accepted (not because of ignorance, but because of r&d, testing, and real world applications) that a dh specific helmet is best for dh and a moto helmet is best for moto. leave it at that. i'm not sure what you're trying to prove here.
  • - 7
flag ktmmxrider (Dec 16, 2012 at 12:20) (Below Threshold) show comment
 The difference is that they are not two completely different sports, they are worldly similar. I'm trying to prove that moto helmets aren't bad like everyone says. PB put out one, very biased article with out-dated sources and now everyone thinks they are a helmet expert. I'm not talking out my ass. Go look at top moto helmets, most, if not all, have dial density eps, emergency removal cheekpads, eject compatibility etc. I'd like to see your source for DH helmets being "unanimously" safer. If you read the article, DH helmet companies did ALL the R&D, using outdated helmets. I didn't see one mention from a manufacturer that does both (Fox, Bell, TLD, etc...), which makes the article biased and outdated. The fact that you are basing your argument soley on assumption means that you are, indeed, talking out your ass.
  • + 1
flag scrippsranchDJ (Dec 16, 2012 at 12:31)
 Moto helmets ARE safer... for motorcross. If you need people to explain again why the hard shell on motocross helmets make them unsafe for downhill, then work on your comprehension. Its simple physics.
  • - 1
flag ktmmxrider (Dec 16, 2012 at 12:34)
 How do you not understand that the eps lining (WITHIN THE SHELL) is dual density, one harder layer for higher speed impacts and the other, softer layer for lower speed impacts. Every single argument you say is about low speed impacts, but low speed impacts aren't the only impact someone riding downhill will ever experience.
  • - 7
flag nojzilla (Dec 16, 2012 at 12:35) (Below Threshold) show comment
 yep the testing was biased
my point is... with so many different safety "standards" for different countrys let alone different sports an different impacts how can the testing be accurate

i know a lot of BMX riders that wear MX lids over DH lids for the same reasons stated that MX lids are not as good for DH
  • + 1
flag scrippsranchDJ (Dec 16, 2012 at 12:38)
 The lining isn't what's protecting your actual head though. The shell is designed to break under high speed, which is what I was talking about the whole time. We don't ride as fast as motorcross hence why mtb helmets are designed with thinner shells because we experience lower maximum speeds on a whole.
  • + 1
flag nojzilla (Dec 16, 2012 at 12:40)
 just the fact that riders are wearing any helmet is a good thing, theres some NUTS riding from BMX street riders wearing nothing more than jeans an t'shirt. check out some of Sean Burns vids, its scary what he gets up to without a helmet an in this video they're testing a skate lid against a bike lid, so theres some bias testing right there!
  • - 1
flag ndubl8 (Dec 16, 2012 at 13:00)
 i never said moto helmets aren't bad, matter of fact i said that if you have a moto helmet and can't afford a dh helmet, it will work for the time being, as we all know how ridiculously expensive both sports are. however there are new standards specifically made for dh helmets to ensure that, when these standards are met, you are getting the best absolute protection for that particular, unique discipline. all the great new advances in moto helmets that you're point to are, in fact great; however, they were all implemented to make the helmet safer for MOTO USE. i think it is ludicrous to try and argue that moto helmets are better for you than a dh specific helmet, and, i don't believe that is the point you are trying to make; which is why i'm so confused as to why you won't shut up about all of this already. dh helmets are best for dh, moto helmets are best for moto, and anyone that tries to argue against that is simply living in a world of fallacy.
  • + 0
flag DylWestbury (Dec 16, 2012 at 13:00)
 bitches are trolling chad kerley never wears a helmet Smile
  • + 1
flag scrippsranchDJ (Dec 16, 2012 at 13:05)
 Ahh ktm my mistake. Yes the eps foam is what I was referring to(the foam on the inside of the helmet but not the padding).
  • + 10
flag Nobble (Dec 16, 2012 at 13:43)
 Here's a fun fact for you guys blindly neg propping ktm into oblivion.

The speed at which DOT/snell helmets become less safe is approximately 9mph. I'm pretty sure that we all go faster than that on our bikes.

The only real difference is that a motocross helmet has to be able to disperse much higher amounts of energy.

If i didn't know better i would say that troy lee and the other helmet companies are putting these things out to try and boost sales.
  • + 6
flag krash (Dec 16, 2012 at 13:45)
 @ KTM. dude, as right as you are, you will never win with the lemmings. nice to see someone else thinks that Kali ad... i mean dh helmet article was bullshit.
  • + 2
flag Bmxerch (Dec 16, 2012 at 15:02)
 KTM's right, you boneheads.

9mph or less is the speed needed to make a DOT/Snell approved helmet less safe, I know Nobble already said it, but maybe if you nunks read it from two people you will understand.

I wear an MX lid for BMX racing and the only non DOT helmet I will wear is a D3 because it's a few vents too much to be DOT.

I've hit my head more times in my career with my Fly F2's than I have with any Bicycle specific helmet. I've had 4 concussions. All of them with a bicycle specific helmet.

This arguement is so tunnel visioned and one sided it's not funny. Look at the FACTS and HISTORY before going and beaking MX helmets to no end. I've seen ten times the concussions come out of Bicycle helmets that I have MX helmets. Why ? Well, maybe because their safer.

Way to go KTM. I feel as though my IQ went down about 50 points having to argue that a DOT helmet is safer than a non DOT.
  • - 5
flag clarky78 (Dec 16, 2012 at 16:05) (Below Threshold) show comment
 Are people seriously trying to imply that wearing an MX helmet for DH and crashing at 20MPH will do more damage than wearing the same helmet and crashing at 50MPH on an MX bike? That is so retarded!! Does the helmet have some kind of bike awareness whereby it will be less effective if your on an MTB!?

And I'm sorry but if you think a helmet with lower density foam (DH) will save you head at 20mph more than a high density foam (MX) one, your mad. That makes absolutely no sense. A higher speed will do more damage so therefore it's protection at lower speeds would be higher. It's effectively the test in this video... The no certified helmet (DH effective) will protect a lesser impact, but the certified (MX effective) will protect a higher impact. Both would protect against a lower speed, lower energy impact, but the certified one will also work for faster higher energy impacts. The principal is the same, so again, how can you say a MX helmet is worse than a DH helmet on a mountain bike?!

Personally, I would never use an MX helmet, because they are heavier and less ventilated.
  • - 2
flag kev-roberts (Dec 16, 2012 at 16:20)
 nobody is implying that whatsoever, also, (I'm tired so may be wrong) but it seems like you've massively contradicted yourself, first off you've said that the MX helmet would be just as good, but then said you'll never use one.

My first comment was basically saying that the different helmet types are designed for different impacts...

as mentioned previously, MX helmets are actually designed for road use because thats what they have to be certified for, so yes, they are designed to hit a SMOOTH road at 40-50+ mph, whereas the DH helmet is designed to hit uneven, usually rocky terrain, at maybe much lower speeds but ones that have the potential to do more damage.

I for one will never go back to using MX helmets after seeing and reading about the disadvantages, that and the weight etc.
  • + 2
flag ktmmxrider (Dec 16, 2012 at 16:25)
 That is so not true, stop talking out of your ass. Moto helmets are designed for offroad use, whether it be trails, tracks or enduro riding. Let me guess, you read the PB article and now think that moto helmets are terrible. A good moto helmet is barely heaver than a top of the line DH helmet. Again, ready above. Snell becomes less safe at 9mph.... Go look up what a dual density eps liner does then get back to us.
  • + 1
flag Bmxerch (Dec 16, 2012 at 17:13)
 Smooth roads ? Are you retarded, or just talking out of your ass ?

DOT... DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION. Do you transport shit on smooth roads 24/7 ? No. Last time I checked you could use a transportation vehicle off road, which ultimately leads to non smooth surfaces.

Stop kissing pinkbikes ass and open your eyes.
  • + 2
flag BikeTrials (Dec 16, 2012 at 17:23)
 Bike helmet when I ride pedal bike MX helmet when I ride motorized bike.
  • + 3
flag Nobble (Dec 16, 2012 at 17:27)
 Snell certification for motorsports... Need i say more?
  • + 2
flag DandelionDan (Dec 16, 2012 at 20:22)
 MX helmet vs. Dh helmet is all personal preference. A MX helmet WILL provide more protection than a DH helmet, but it won't make a big enough difference to worry about while mountain biking. MX helmets are heavier and and less ventilated than DH helmets, and in my opinion are a bit overkill. Again, it's all personal preference.
  • + 1
flag ASR524 (Dec 16, 2012 at 20:53)
 Just a help
Snell certification process
www.smf.org/testing
  • + 5
flag Albe23 (Dec 16, 2012 at 23:35)
 Just to clarify what people mean by, "A DH helmet will protect better than a MX helmet." There is a study and a bunch of videos that back that statement up, but without the proper context/explaination confusion becomes a problem. A MX helmet (DOT/SNELL) will of course protect your head from severe injuries better than a DH helmet. However, it will be at the higher speeds that MX riders frequent. Thus it is certified to keep severe, life threatning injuries from occuring at those speeds. A DH helmet is meant to do the same thing but at a slower speed. I would very much like the source for the 9 mph, because I remember it being SNELL specific, not DOT (could be wrong).



Now stay with me here this is where it gets tricky. The MX helmet, because of the higher standard, is built to take harsh hits. The forces felt and how the body reacts is very different at high and low speeds and thus combating them is different. What this means is that the given the same lower speed crash the DH helmet will cushion the blow sooner at that speed than the MX helmet will. This does not mean that the MX helmet is 'far more dangerous' than the DH helmet. Your brain will experience a higher threshold of force with the MX helmet before it gives and starts to compress than with the DH. That is why a DH helmet is 'safer' than an MX for DH specific riding. Again, does not mean that the MX helmet will put you at higher risk of traumatic brain injury. It just means that with the DH helmet you might not get your bell rung as hard than with the MX helmet. Remember 'safer' is relative term and that we are talking small differences here, not large ones. Also, because of that same setup, the DH helmet will reach its limit sooner than a MX helmet with much harder hits.
  • + 1
flag lenmerderdenfer (Dec 17, 2012 at 0:52)
 It is all interdependent on what the outer shell is made of too. If I'm at speed, doing a 30 feet + step-down gap, with my head several meters above the landing then, I'm wearing an MX full-face helmet. When doing such antics, I think I no longer meet their lab testing criteria. In addition, a very large percentage of the World Cup riders use MX or MX style helmets. And so, that's good enough for me especially when I'm trying to stay on the heels of Al Bond, or some of the British series riders, at our local DH track. (It's very steep, has sharp loose rocks, big pines, a lot of loam and has some sections where the speed will bring tears to your eyes.) It's a proper DH track, you don't say?
  • + 2
flag Nutcracker (Dec 17, 2012 at 20:20)
 Certified cardboard helmet (instead of eps lined) including video about how it was developed.

Warning: This video appears to contain actual facts from someone who actually knows what they're talking about and does NOT have a dubstep soudtrack. Contents may disturb young pinkbike users who don't seem to grasp science very well.

www.wired.com/design/2012/12/kranium

and they're working on a full face version...
  • + 1
flag lenmerderdenfer (Dec 18, 2012 at 1:02)
 @ Nutcracker, Nice find. Thanks for sharing.
  • + 1
flag SeanTCampbell (Dec 18, 2012 at 13:54)
 To throw in my opinion... I think they make dh helmets more centered towards many small impacts at lower speeds (maybe 20-30ish?) because generally people don't hit Mach 3 (exception World Cup racers) and fall off a little more than mx and its not very easy to go over those speeds on really difficult trails. But with mx, they have to make the helmets around the possibility of going down at speeds closer to 50 or whatever because its quite easy to do that with the use of 250-450 ccs of exploding fury. I mean I am really not that good at dirtbiking but there are trails where I can hit 50 easy so in the event I go down, I'd rather have a fat concussion than death. That being said, the helmet manufacturers only have so much room to work with inside that helmet so they make the foam or padding or whatever to be a little harder so in the case of a large crash it doesn't "bottom out". Kinda like setting your suspension. If you know there may be a large hit you crank up your compression wich may cause you to feel more of the little bumps. And for a rough trail (many little hits) you soften it knowing you probably won't bottom it out. Idk if that makes sense to anyone else, but it made sense in my head
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  • + 13
flag tyler-bmx-77 (Dec 16, 2012 at 10:26)
 i knew the protec was bad news when i leaned 3 bikes on it for an hr by accident and the helmet folded in half
  • + 12
flag Downhill340 (Dec 16, 2012 at 11:06)
 Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
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  • + 9
flag karausive (Dec 16, 2012 at 10:07)
 Posted this in the BMX forum yesterday.
So many people (including myself) wear non-approved helmets.

I am ordering a new helmet ASAP.
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  • + 10
flag BenParfitterole (Dec 16, 2012 at 11:13)
 I just found it funny cause chad kerley never wears a helmet!
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  • + 6
flag Grelax (Dec 16, 2012 at 11:16)
 I just can't stand listening shit about moto helmets unsafe in biking. They are designed to take higher speed impacts but also for low speed. You can crash with low speed on a moto same like on a bike. Moto's have just extra compression layers and thicker shell. Bike helmets are just lighter and cooler as you dont sit most of the time like on moto but nowdays light mx designs have so close spec to bike helmets so you don't feel a difference. I've rode last season in a moto helmet, it's lighter and cooler than my previous bike one, and crashing in it is less painful. I you're so moto haters, stop wearing your moto racewar, goggles or gloves cuz you will die!
  • + 3
flag SkylineYakuzaDude42 (Dec 16, 2012 at 21:24)
 Moto helmets aren't as good for low speed crashes compared to Dh helmets.
  • + 1
flag WAKIdesigns (Dec 17, 2012 at 1:20)
 Grelax - I will simplify it greatly: helmet absorbs the force of the impact: inner layers deforms and absorbs the energy this way. Also by deforming it minimizes and decemerates the velocity of brain hitting the skull. Then it also
Minimizes the rebounding of the brain. The outer layer keep inner soft layer in one piece and distributes force on larger surface of inner layers and skull.

Now MX helmet is designed for higher speed crashes, so the inner layer is not only thicker (longer brake path for the brain) but also harder. So your brain in DH helmet on MX will blow through the "travel" of the inner layer and bottom out on the outer. On the other hand at lower DH speed in MX helmet your brain will have no chance to blow through the travel of harder foam and slamming harder on the skull.
  • + 1
flag Sidor666 (Dec 17, 2012 at 6:20)
 True but it all is relative and depends on the standards you use. DOT standards are more restrict than European ECE standards. This results in ECE Motocross helmets being more suitable fore DH use than DOT.
  • + 1
flag Sidor666 (Dec 17, 2012 at 6:24)
 Nowadays there are MX helmets that weigh 1100g with lots and lots of vents Like AGV MX-8
www.agv.com/pl/agv/OFF-ROAD/AX-8%20EVO/PHILIPPAERTS%20ITALY
  • + 1
flag Grelax (Dec 17, 2012 at 7:31)
 Moto helmets has staged compression layers, softer for lower speeds and harder for harsh impacts. Thats what make them bigger and bulky. It will make no sense if the helmet will be safe in some situatiions. It has to give same protection level in every situation. Everyone likes what he likes and no one says that slow amateurs has to wear moto helmets but nothing happen if they get one. I've already tested one mtb helmet and still feel the pain crashing it into pieces. Never again. It makes me smile looking at 661 evo's half an inch of a foam on cheek pads and then next half an inch of styrofoam and thats all.
  • + 1
flag coop918 (Dec 20, 2012 at 13:31)
 I've broken a tld moto lid in a BMX crash. I ended up with a pretty good concussion but feel like the helmet did it's job. I don't think a bicycle helmet would've been better. Mx helmets are made for big and small impacts because both happen in mx. Although it's not as likely, the big hits that moto helmets are designed to handle can happen on a bicycle. I still think moto helmets are safer.
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  • + 4
flag WAKIdesigns (Dec 16, 2012 at 12:26)
 Oh, what was that without a helmet? If Magazines, pop-sites and video makers would stop using pictures of PROs without helmets, the count of serious head injuries would drop drasticaly. But as long as the idol is lookin' chilled out without a helmet, people, mainly kuds will follow the fashion.I don't care what pros do outside the camera frame - people look up to them what they ride and weat on pics and vids.

And this most stupid personal preference argument: it is my personal preference no helmet - not a single penny from my taxes for your medical treatment. And if you are in same insurance company I pay money to, I prefer you little pozer playing with your own and your family life to get nothing as well. Go pay full price for ambulance, staying at hospital, eventual surgery, treatment. Check how much that costs and f*ckin WEAR IT!
  • + 1
flag CyWhit (Dec 16, 2012 at 13:52)
 I agree BUT I think this should be more of a voluntary move, nobody should be forced to wear a helmet, just like they shouldn't be forced to wear a seatbelt...
  • + 2
flag WAKIdesigns (Dec 16, 2012 at 14:07)
 In a way yes, nobody should be forced, and no one actualy is, hou just get a fine for not wearing them. The problem is, you are not alone and someone has to deal with your "corpse" after you crash, you are not the only person taking consequences of avoidable injury. When I drive though, everyone in the car is forced by me (and the annoying beeper) to fasten their seatbelt. I don't want my mother in law sitting behind to kill me or my daughter with her flying body.
  • + 1
flag sourmix (Dec 17, 2012 at 2:40)
 Dealing with a corpse, as you say, will be pretty unfunny. But dealing with a life time of spoon feeding mush to somebody who used to be a family member but is now a dribbling, incontinent wreck with no noticeable personality remaining is potentially even worse, I would say.
  • + 1
flag WAKIdesigns (Dec 17, 2012 at 3:23)
 Sourmix - this we will never know, but I guess we can all agree that wearing a helmet is a very little price to pay to save ourselves and others a great deal of trouble.
  • + 1
flag ryanme (Dec 17, 2012 at 8:29)
 i think CyWhit is completely wrong, people should be forced to wear seatbelts because its everyone else that has to deal with the after affects ... the families and friends left to pick up the pieces when someones been flung through the windscreen because they were not wearing a seatbelt..
  • + 1
flag WAKIdesigns (Dec 18, 2012 at 2:59)
 Ryanme - nobody should be forced to anything, if someone does not want to wear seatbelts or a helmet he/she is highly probably doing lots of other stuff that other people pay for and fix.
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  • + 3
flag ctd07 (Dec 16, 2012 at 15:07)
 I can personally testify that those Bell helmets work as stated, if you look closely you can see the polystyrene in the Bell helmet is about twice as thick which is obviously going to make a difference. 3 years ago I fell 9ft onto concrete-hard dirt on the back of my head wearing that helmet, the impact pushed my head forwards and compressed two of my neck vertebrae, I felt how hard the impact was on my head but even though I sustained a fractured neck from the crash I wasn't even knocked out or had any concussion... Always use the right equipment and I strongly recommend an mx certified helmet for downhill use as I've had a few high speed head impacts in rock gardens that I know a standard mtb full face would have knocked me out in.
  • + 1
flag lenmerderdenfer (Dec 17, 2012 at 1:07)
 Right on!
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  • + 3
flag AthleteRecoveryFund (Dec 17, 2012 at 18:49)
 I'm really impressed by the conversation this sparked! Its great to hear different impressions of this video. A couple points I'd like to make is Pro-Tec makes great helmets, including Certified helmets for bike use. The problem is bike riders using the Lasek without knowing the difference in protection. If you want argue the test is not "real world" you missed the point. It's only from 1 meter and 800g is twice what any human could withstand. Sadly people have died falling from these heights. More important is that the Certified helmet had 5 times less force and you could have got up and ride away under the same conditions. Its a equal comparison not a simulation. Most helmet manufactures make a Certified model and everyone has a different shaped head so find the brand that fits you. Most Certified helmets would have performed similar to the one tested. The level at which the soft foam non certified helmet may give you more deceleration is so low it wouldn't matter if you had the helmet or not. Additionally once the soft foam is compressed the shell will cut your eye brow causing a secondary injury and likely stitches. Our hope is to encourage manufactures to make better fitting and more comfortable "skate style" helmets that can offer better protection than the soft foam style helmet. Engineers struggle with keeping the size as small as the Lasek while offering Certified level protection.
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  • + 3
flag materials-guy (Dec 16, 2012 at 16:11)
 I would like to have seen a second drop test on the certified lid to prove to some people that a lid is only good for one crash. And to see how much the safety is compromised with a second hit.
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  • + 2
flag trycycles (Dec 16, 2012 at 13:58)
 How is this 'news' the standard has been in place since 1999....!
The test merely requires a helmet to be dropped from 1.2 - 2m, when a rider is mounted on their bike their head can be easily 2m above the ground. These are static tests too so speed will become a factor in the real world, how often do we fall straight down on to our heads from stationary?
I always wear a helmet, I have a nice scar on my head to remind me, I would always condone helmet use, especially by 'role models' employed by companies as ambassadors of their brands however do the standards that are set to protect us actually do that much for us or could they be improved further? DH and Freeride lids need to be able to take (in general) harsher impacts than xc lids, yet all abide by the same standard...
It is also interesting to note that the Bell helmet tested in the video is a new for 2013 model, how do their older models (still available on the shelves) stack up in these tests?
Bell are moving helmet design forwards with the feature laden Full 9 with a number of extra safety features available (some as an aftermarket upgrade) I wonder if other manufacturers will follow suit?
  • + 1
flag lenmerderdenfer (Dec 17, 2012 at 1:05)
 Great points!
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  • + 2
flag damskullrider (Dec 16, 2012 at 15:23)
 I guess after this video I am glad I bought my 661 dot helmet yeah I paid way more then what girlfriend wanted me to spend but after showing her the video she is glad I didn't spend my crappy tire money on their lovely 49.99 hyper helmet instead bought me a new first aide kit and a new sd card to record any good spills lol Think of it this way if you don't want std's or unwanted babies you don't buy dollar store condoms you go for the best money buys so protect your head properly or u might not get to try those expensive condoms u bought
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  • + 4
flag Shredder-boy (Dec 16, 2012 at 10:04)
 I saw this yesterday on Facebook. Pays to wear a helmet! Helmet I bet that BMXer went back to riding street and park without one!
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  • + 1
flag Tony13 (Dec 16, 2012 at 18:04)
 is it just me or when they said this is going to be the most important video your going to watch today they came off a bit cocky because today i watched a video about how to feed Africa for a year and i feel that it was a little more important than a helmet comparison but who the fuck am I to say whats important.
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  • + 1
flag thereisnospoon (Dec 16, 2012 at 18:39)
 this video shows how easy it is to get a concussion, regardless of whether your helmet is "certified" or not.
really wish helmet manufacturers would start focusing on making us something reasonably affordable that can get our heads below that 100G threshold in a 2m fall/crash.
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  • + 1
flag AidenCrocker (Dec 17, 2012 at 2:04)
 ive been wearing that protec for the last 4years (obviously replacing frequently) and ive fell more than a metre onto my head and i think im fine... i know its uncertified but im still going to wear it, maybe one day my luck will run out but until they make a comfy certified helmet i will continue to wear my protec
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  • + 1
flag NAPALMJEFF (Dec 16, 2012 at 13:25)
 helmets work i know this and glasses save your eyes too came off my bike this year down deliverance trail glentress and landed on my head and if i didn't have glasses on my eyelid would have got ripped off. well you just wouldn't go on these trails without wearing a helmet . or anywhere on your bike.
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  • + 1
flag BSidwell (Dec 16, 2012 at 16:54)
 I've worked on making alot of helmets over the years (bike, bike dh, skate, snow & moto). The protec helmet tested doesn't do much (the test lab provides proof), it does protect against lacerations minor penetrations, but in regards to protecting the gray matter which does matter it's NOT very protective.

What is protective is CPSC qualified bike helmets, these types of helmets are designed to protect against life threatening injury mechanisms (major brain tram such as skull fractures), inherently these types of helmets also do a great job of protecting against a wide range of injuries that occur from minor falls at slow speeds to very dynamic high speed crashes.

For those who think they can control there fall, there playing odds and you will loss at some point.. I've seen a lot of helmet carnage, and so often the circumstances are one that the rider had no control over how they fell...

If it's a bike helmet in USA it is the federal law to comply with the CPSC specifications. There should be a sticker saying so in each helmet.

Wear a CPSC qualified helmet properly and expect to have excellent protection. Wear a DH ASTM-1952 helmet and expect additional protection on the sides and rear, plus the chin.

You can find a list of helmets that have been reviewed by a non profit group called the Bicycle Helmet Safety Institute.

The BHSI annual bicycle helmet report is at the link below.

bhsi.org/helmet12.htm

So safe travels and have fun ripping it up! It's been a great winter of riding so far...
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  • + 1
flag damskullrider (Dec 16, 2012 at 15:11)
 Wow video proves in this type of sport u can't be a penny pincher and buy cheap equipement so don't go out to ur local crappy tire or walmart to buy a helmet to go out and do a ten foot drop or a 15 foot gap that hunts u ! Now I'll look at peoples helmets and think thats all your lifes worth 49.99 and a few crappy tire bucks lol Glad I pissed off the girl friend when I bought the six six one helmet instead of the on sale at walmart
  • + 4
flag rickyretardo (Dec 16, 2012 at 20:58)
 So your girlfriend wanted you to buy the Walmart helmet over the 661 ?? Wow she really cares about you, time to find a new girl friend.
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  • + 4
flag carraig042 (Dec 16, 2012 at 10:11)
 It certainly pays to wear a good helmet! I always have, but even more now, will I make sure my helmets are certified.
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  • + 1
flag rupintart (Dec 16, 2012 at 16:02)
 Most helmets are designed to just prevent further injury than what would happen otherwise. Parents don't ever look at shit like certifications, they just grab whatever is on sale or what looks coolest or what their kids like. I also bet most people on here have expired helmets. Something most people don't even think about.
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  • + 1
flag alazamanza (Dec 17, 2012 at 4:32)
 6 months ago i had a fairly big off over a jump in a freeride park, more or less went a/over t and landed a jump over 12 ft long and must have sent me a decent 2-3 metres in the air, landing on my head onto hardpacked dirt, fortunately i was wearing a decent lid, yes it may have knocked me out cold for a good 5 mins or so but it did its job, the helmet was a write off, i wasnt.
the ironic part of the story is when i went to the hospital to get myself checked over there was a woman who was clutching her head with a cloth, she caught her trousers in the chain on her bike and fell off without a helmet, she fell from riding height where i fell a good few times that, i only got checked over cos i was knocked clean out, she needed stiches, what im sayin is that if she wore a helmet she probably wouldnt even have needed to go to the hospital and if i didnt i probably wouldnt have made it to one so id just like to say thanks to fox, that helmet saved my ass!!
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  • + 1
flag JohnB1ke (Dec 17, 2012 at 7:31)
 S***! makes you relize! Is there a spercific certification to look out for as one of my helmets(Urge Endur-O-Matic Flash Helmet) has CE1078 Certification, where as my Troy Lee Designs Air Voodoo has SNELL M2000, M2005, US DOT, AU and CE Certification?
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  • + 6
flag snoopy24777 (Dec 16, 2012 at 10:36)
 wear a helmet kiddos
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  • + 1
flag vt6spd (Dec 18, 2012 at 9:46)
 If you were meant to be here on earth, you will be. No helmet will decide your true fate. People wear seat belts and die. People wear good helmets and die. It's luck of draw. But, never give the upper hand to chance I always say!
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  • + 2
flag ridersentity (Dec 16, 2012 at 11:00)
 Eye opening for sure, considering I wear the pro-tec helmet they where testing. Light and comfy doesn't equal save your life? Interesting, I will likely be buying a certified lid.
  • + 1
flag lenmerderdenfer (Dec 17, 2012 at 0:58)
 Protec makes certified helmets too, but not all of them are certified, which is confusing to me.
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  • + 1
flag Terryotomy (Dec 17, 2012 at 9:12)
 This was pretty minimal as far as information or substance. How about actually publishing front/rear/side impact data for every helmet available using something in the test machine that is actually shaped like a head? I think this would do a lot more to push people to make safer helmets. Certified/uncertified is not enough without more data to say WHY. Surely more goes on than simply one drop test.

Good message and cinematography here though:
'You mean if I don't wear a helmet that you approve I am going to die?'
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  • + 1
flag freeride-forever (Dec 18, 2012 at 19:18)
 Lulzy lulzy lulzy, BMXers don't really wear helmets anyway. The whole idea behind styrofoam MB helmets was that they would break in a crash "to absorb energy", which really just used to mean "absorb money from your wallet" & now this guy is pointing out how kifey it is when the absorbtion material doesn't bounce back.

Certified or not, something is better than nothing. One drop test does nothing to approximate all the possible ways a person can fall on their head. This convinces me of nothing except that the Bell helmet performed better in that orientation than the unnamed helmet.

I don't care if my Pro-Tec is certified or not (better be for the stupid price of it), it's comfy & it's safer than a hat.
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  • + 5
flag alexvon123 (Dec 16, 2012 at 10:42)
 I am now checking my road helmet and my Full face, lol
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  • + 1
flag TBagTantalizer (Dec 19, 2012 at 19:56)
 My worst crash was on a berm. The front slipped out and I belly flopped on the dirt. The nose of my fullface snagged a little stump and twisted my neck pretty bad. I was stiff for a few days.
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  • + 4
flag j-maul (Dec 16, 2012 at 10:06)
 So why sell uncertified ones, what application do they have
  • + 5
flag clemson (Dec 16, 2012 at 10:10)
 making money...what else
  • + 3
flag Christoff7 (Dec 16, 2012 at 10:33)
 They tend to be comfier and better looking... mostly because they're no where near as useful s a helmet.
  • + 3
flag MCsession7 (Dec 16, 2012 at 10:40)
 To look cool.. Some people say they fit better, but its usually for people who don't wear helmets, but need to wear a helmet due to park rules.
  • + 4
flag jezzah (Dec 16, 2012 at 10:43)
 uncertified for bike use.. certified for skateboarding. The helmet they are using is a skateboarding lid, but looks nice and is comfy so a lot of bmxers use them.
  • + 5
flag dkidd (Dec 16, 2012 at 11:28)
 for getting around town without a 'no helmet' ticket.
  • + 1
flag spoonyman (Dec 16, 2012 at 11:36)
 Pretty sure it's illegal to sell uncertified bike helmets in the UK...

Although as mentioned above, certified for skateboarding (or any non-bicycle sport) is probably used as a convenient loop hole to try and sell other cheaper helmets :/
  • + 1
flag FactoryPhil107 (Dec 16, 2012 at 11:36)
 " By law a bicycle helmet must meet the CPSC standard to be sold in the US market. But that law is unique to bicycle helmets, and there is no US law that says a helmet being marketed only for skateboarding has to meet any standard whatsoever. The manufacturers and retailers are mostly afraid of lawsuits if they don't meet a skateboard standard, but in fact they can sell anything at all as a skateboard helmet as long as they don't market it for bicycling. So for skateboard use look for the ASTM F1492 sticker. Until 2011 the ASTM standard had a loophole that permitted the manufacturer to leave out the F1492 on the helmet sticker, but that loophole has been eliminated.

Note that some helmet models may be certified only to F1492 in some sizes, and not in others. If the manufacturer makes one shell size and just uses thinner foam inserts for larger size heads, for example, the large may not be certified. Or it may be the other way around and the small is not certified. That sticker in the helmet is the only thing you can rely on. It must be there, or all bets are off."

www.helmets.org/dualcert.htm
  • + 1
flag spoonyman (Dec 16, 2012 at 11:41)
 I imagine it's a similar situation in the UK
  • + 1
flag karausive (Dec 16, 2012 at 13:37)
 This.
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  • + 2
flag dddirt (Dec 16, 2012 at 13:08)
 What about URGE helmets. They aren't CSPC certified, but I believe they are certified to a Euro standard. I wonder if it's as stringent.
  • + 1
flag BeerGuzlinFool (Dec 16, 2012 at 15:02)
 I can't comment on all of the urge helmets but I know from personal experience that their dh.lid is. Crap.
  • + 2
flag rickyretardo (Dec 16, 2012 at 20:55)
 I like my Urge's I only crashed once in the Endur-o-matic hit my head in the dirt no rocks, it put some small dents in it but it's held up great and my head never hurt. They are certified the Endur o matic is CE1078 and the Down o matic is CPSC according to their website, what ever that means
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  • + 1
flag ballabika Plus (Dec 16, 2012 at 22:43)
 Just cant believe people have to make videos to show stupid people that those wake board/skate helmets aren't safe... in all respect to professionals and talented riders... Really? like come on.
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  • + 1
flag ryanme (Dec 17, 2012 at 8:27)
 Any idea of the certification of Capix helmets? I know they are supposedly certified and still sold in the UK but they have the same dual foam no polystyrene setup ..
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  • + 2
flag keyul (Dec 16, 2012 at 15:44)
 Crazy how much difference there is, How about some full face helmets instead of these piss-buckets?
  • + 0
flag AidenCrocker (Dec 17, 2012 at 2:06)
 its a vid for bmx helmets.... the test was run because maddog was wearing a protec when he crashed, why would they test fullface helmets?
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  • + 1
flag enorbz (Dec 16, 2012 at 19:18)
 And why are people hating on the Protecs, I have the Protec Skate Lid with the hard foam, padding, and hard shell and it says on the inside it is CPSC certified
  • + 1
flag Circes (Dec 17, 2012 at 2:02)
 Right, ProTec makes some good helmets, but they also make the most popular non-certified helmets on the market.
  • + 1
flag enorbz (Dec 17, 2012 at 10:13)
 Aww the ones that are just a plastic shell with foam
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  • + 1
flag Schmitty (Dec 18, 2012 at 13:31)
 D3! I walked away from a gnarly crash, the D3 saved me from a horrible injury. Worth every penny! I'll buy another and another and another.
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  • + 2
flag CheryBomb (Dec 17, 2012 at 7:38)
 Some guys don't need any helmets www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymCiIOTlgpE or www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGeZjqEcFvM
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  • + 2
flag swisscirca (Dec 16, 2012 at 17:40)
 Does anyone think its weird they tested a bike helmet vs. a skateboard helmet?
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  • + 1
flag powerline (Dec 16, 2012 at 12:18)
 good video , a side by side of the high speed cams would have been perfect . glad my 661s are certified . also my SNELL for the motorbikes .
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  • + 2
flag KennyKillsIt (Dec 16, 2012 at 12:46)
 Listening to those riders it sounds to me like they got a few too many hits to the head with non certified lids Eek
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  • + 1
flag Camoguy1 (Dec 16, 2012 at 11:58)
 Regardless of your view on personal protection equipment, its great that everyone on here takes it seriously enough to discuss it as much as I'm seeing.
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  • + 2
flag cameronumf (Dec 16, 2012 at 11:16)
 Chad doesnt even use a helmet unless in a contest where he has to, so whys he in this??
  • + 4
flag spoonyman (Dec 16, 2012 at 11:36)
 I think the point is to try and convince him why he should be wearing a helmet?
  • + 1
flag cameronumf (Dec 16, 2012 at 12:20)
 maybe haha.
  • + 3
flag MikeZinger Plus (Dec 16, 2012 at 13:03)
 Cause he rides for bell? or at least uses there products
  • + 3
flag MikeZinger Plus (Dec 16, 2012 at 13:10)
 www.bellhelmets.com/athletes/chad-kerley
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  • + 1
flag olly-geary (Dec 16, 2012 at 11:01)
 For many riders (like myself) who never usually wear a helmet, surely it's safer to wear a non-certified helmet than nothing at all?
  • + 3
flag singlespeedtoday (Dec 16, 2012 at 11:44)
 Not necessarily... Non-certified soft foam helmets can cause a 'bouncing effect' resulting in multiple impacts, while certified hard foam helmets actually help to absorb the initial impact. It also adds a sense of false security.
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  • + 3
flag Downhill340 (Dec 16, 2012 at 11:07)
 Everyone's about to check there helmet certification , lord knows I am.
  • + 1
flag scrammer (Dec 16, 2012 at 11:48)
 Just checked all 5 helmets in the family, XC - AM - DH, and all are certified!!!
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  • + 3
flag mblakely (Dec 16, 2012 at 12:54)
 Chad Kerley's beanie is super protective.
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  • + 2
flag simonsilver (Dec 16, 2012 at 10:15)
 interesting to see if these guys end up switching to certified helmets or keep rocking protecs
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  • + 3
flag Rspanky (Dec 16, 2012 at 10:09)
 look my photos today... tomorrow gotta wear a helmet
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  • + 2
flag dkidd (Dec 16, 2012 at 11:29)
 nice front-page pic there Scott! Gotta get them reading somehow!
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  • + 1
flag Kieran-Young (Dec 16, 2012 at 13:13)
 Was considering a pro-tec Full cut helmet which I've been told isn't certified.......not buying it now.
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  • + 1
flag woolin Plus (Dec 17, 2012 at 6:17)
 It's funny that they have BMX guys in there for the test and 99% of them don't even wear helmets
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  • + 1
flag Ruhtra (Dec 16, 2012 at 12:03)
 Is ce1078 as good as cpsc? My helmet is only ce1078 but is sold in America.
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  • + 2
flag Adym (Dec 16, 2012 at 15:01)
 If you have a $10 head, buy a $10 helmet
  • + 0
flag watsontony (Dec 16, 2012 at 17:07)
 u meant £ pal not $


pffft americanized dik Wink
  • + 1
flag Adym (Dec 18, 2012 at 7:51)
 When I first read it, it was with $ so I kept it the same.
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  • + 1
flag slc-ripper (Dec 16, 2012 at 10:46)
 Im so steezy, I never wore a helmet...Now, can somebody hel me wipe my ass? I Cant do much since I hit my head real hard.
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  • + 1
flag mcellis123 (Dec 28, 2012 at 13:58)
 suppose I better save up my money to invest in a new helmet !!!!!!!!!!! Wink
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  • + 1
flag Sarin (Dec 16, 2012 at 10:53)
 In European Union is a standard call EN 1078:1997. So theoretically you can't buy uncertified helmet in EU.
  • + 1
flag Sarin (Dec 16, 2012 at 10:58)
 In UK is similar standard
  • + 1
flag nojzilla (Dec 16, 2012 at 11:20)
 yep the U.K's in Europe Smile
  • + 1
flag NineOneSix (Dec 16, 2012 at 11:49)
 Not 100% accurate. EN standards have to be certified by BSI and get a BS certification. UK usually uses EN standards if the European Union requirements haven't been tested yet. But being 1997 which is 15 years ago I'm sure there's a BS requirement also in place.

(I had to test electrical equipment to BS standards and EN standards in the past).
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  • + 2
flag socommk23 (Dec 16, 2012 at 10:58)
 this is the stuff we all need to know!
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  • + 1
flag nelsond (May 20, 2013 at 13:26)
 every comment is like a fucking paragraph. i hate when people bitch about helmets of course i wear one but fuck
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  • + 1
flag mq124 (Dec 17, 2012 at 6:34)
 TLD D3 every time I ride. Cant beat a helmet as well constructed as that although they are expensive...
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  • + 2
flag Dixomatt (Dec 16, 2012 at 15:24)
 I want to see a video on BROCK vs. EPS that would be interesting
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  • + 1
flag rickyretardo (Dec 16, 2012 at 20:42)
 Giro Hex is certified and Urge Helmets ( all 4 of my helmets) are certified in case anyone wants to know.
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  • + 1
flag ibis09 (Dec 16, 2012 at 17:49)
 Can pinkbike run as a list of certified helmets? I'm currently using urge is is certified?
  • + 1
flag rickyretardo (Dec 16, 2012 at 20:43)
 Yes
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  • + 1
flag enorbz (Dec 16, 2012 at 19:00)
 kind of weird when they interviewed Chad Kerley, never seen the dude wear a helmet once...
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  • + 1
flag raymond-george (Dec 16, 2012 at 18:03)
 Sketchy! Swallow your pride and pick a helmet that will protect you, not make you look cool!
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  • + 2
flag gnartail (Dec 16, 2012 at 18:12)
 Can we test DOT/SNELL vs MTB standards next?
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  • + 1
flag bbeaudoin (Dec 17, 2012 at 23:41)
 I still think Bells are too heavy and look stupid ill stick with my THE
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  • + 1
flag thunt601 (Dec 16, 2012 at 19:04)
 moto helmets are for going big
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  • + 0
flag dbox123 (Dec 16, 2012 at 11:10)
 Work hard so you can play hard... It's worth spending abit more on protection, d3 all day long for me...
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  • + 1
flag theballinman (Dec 16, 2012 at 19:05)
 was the non certified helmet a protec?
  • + 1
flag AidenCrocker (Dec 17, 2012 at 2:07)
 yep
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  • + 1
flag toddonbike (Dec 17, 2012 at 13:10)
 HOW ABOUT THE SAFETY OF A HELMET WITH A CAMERA OR LIGHT ATTACHED TO IT???
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  • + 1
flag Tharris (Dec 16, 2012 at 22:32)
 im glad chad kerley is there since he rarely wears a helmet haha
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  • + 1
flag Josh696wisenor (Dec 16, 2012 at 22:35)
 Now go to www.6dhelmet.com to see the future
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  • + 1
flag jvoyles2 (Dec 16, 2012 at 21:01)
 fml just got the non certified helmate
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  • + 0
flag jrocksdh (Dec 16, 2012 at 11:59)
 looking forward to the new T.H.E dh helmets as they will be the first DOT approved.
  • + 2
flag swisscirca (Dec 16, 2012 at 17:43)
 There have been a bunch of dot certified helmets, but there was a post awhile back about how dot might be too much for bikers. Those are able to withstand 80mph into concrete. Might think of it as wearing a steel plate around your head when it comes to our 30 mph crashes on dirt, just a thought. Wish I had the post link
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag ivanjumpstyle (Dec 16, 2012 at 14:51)
 just ordered a sweet new "certified" helmet right before i watched this!!!
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  • + 0
flag petikalo (Dec 16, 2012 at 10:15)
 It means, if I fall down from 1 meter to my head without a helmet, i'll die? Can't believe
  • + 2
flag LindLTaylor (Dec 16, 2012 at 10:45)
 it doesn't take much.
  • + 4
flag csermonet (Dec 16, 2012 at 10:50)
 if you were completely stiff and had no idea you were falling on your head, i.e. no time to react, yes it is possible you could die. we've all seen riders smash face/head first from much higher than 1 meter, but they were reacting to the fall, not just free falling straight to their dome.
  • + 7
flag nojzilla (Dec 16, 2012 at 11:24)
 a friend of mine now has a Ti plate in his skull cos his chain snapped, went o.t.b to the floor.........

he was just riding (fast) down the street wasnt doing tricks or anything......

fall was so quick i guess he didnt have time to react or get his hands up to save himself


just goes to show
  • + 2
flag larryssman7 (Dec 16, 2012 at 12:03)
 I crashed doing MTB and didn't have enough time to tuck and roll or react, and ended up shattering my collarbone and breaking my non-CPSC Fox Transition helmet.
  • + 1
flag WAKIdesigns (Dec 16, 2012 at 12:36)
 I rode a medium speed berm faster than usual, my front wheel went over its edge, I didnt have time to even put my hand or knee out, I just fell as I was right on my face and shoulder. Despite D2 fullface and relatively low speed I hurt my mouth and got a massive head ache for a week. That happened 3 minutes after I talked on the lift to my friend who had open face Urge helmet and he was going way faster than me and rides ten years shorter. If he fell like I did on some of really fast berms in the same park he would have no face
  • + 1
flag helibike (Dec 16, 2012 at 21:20)
 I was jumping a fast double on A line and there was a guy crossing the landing at walking speed. I tried to avoid him but hit him with my front brake, it snapped me head first in to the hard packed ground. My TLD D2 had the foam on the forehead flattened and reduced to 30% of original thickness. I had a concussion and was seeing double for a bit but was able to walk away.
www.pinkbike.com/photo/9010652
I have an Urge Enduro and was just riding like an idiot, washed the front tire and went head first into a fence post. Chipped my teeth. Helmet has noticable damage to the foam.

Generally, wear a good helmet. You dont plan smashing your head on the ground.
  • + 1
flag Willie1 (Dec 17, 2012 at 11:08)
 We have a helmet hanging in the garage at the cabin with a 6" gash torn out of the shell from a low speed rollover on a small quad (turning around to come back home.) The footpeg gouged the helmet. Its a reminder that shit happens, even at low speed.
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag Zbaron6 (Dec 30, 2012 at 17:08)
 Dam I have they helmet
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