ARF Presents: Certified vs Non-Certified Bicycle Helmet Impact Test from Athlete Recovery Fund on Vimeo.
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Legends like Ron Wilkenson are permently brain damaged and they had a fullface on. My friend was in hospital for 4 days last week with a bleeding brain after crashing at Lym. With that Protec on he'd be dead....your choice
They dropped this helmet form 1m, right?
g force = 10m/s^2
10m/s^2 * 1m .... how does it give you 800G??? The helmet weighs 80kg???
Oh one more thing comes to my mind, if you would drop like this on your head you'd still brake your neck....
If this is the case, it hardly seems a fair comparison.
However what this displays is that because the foam doesn't help decelerate your head until your head is touching the outer shell the head comes to a standstill in very little time. Long and short it, the foam will only protect you from small hits. Once the foam has been used you may as well be hitting the concrete.
Not usually one to be like that, but really, do you actually stand by what you are saying there?
Wierldly enough certified foam (generally) when compressed due to moderate sized hits uses up some of its energy absorbing properties and it no longer as safe to use, the more/harder the hits the less safe it becomes. Often cheap helmets that aren't certified use foam that returns to its original shape and is no less safe to additional hits. Now in a kids skate park where the heights are low the non certified could be better as a "proper" helmet may be unsafe after the hundreds of hits it takes as we know kids don't replace them after a crash.
However we are travelling at 20+mph hitting 6ft+ drops. We don't hit our head often but we potentially hit it hard. Wearing a helmet designed to take the hit you're potentially going to have is important. Don't wear a motorized helmet, because its designed to absorb impacts you'll never have on a mountain bike it has to be firmer and will infact let you get serious concussion, but at least you won't die. Don't wear a non certified as it won't absorb the impact and you'll receive a head trama.
I'd like to see a more comprehensive testing of multiple non certified helmets at a non biased testing facility before coming to any conclusions.
This reads more like a Bell advertisement
What is pretty clear is the difference between a certified, and non certified helmet (regardless of brand, or how many they tested). THAT was the point of this video. To get some awareness out there and to help people, who might not otherwise know this, and might feel their uncertified helmet is safe enough (which it clearly is not). What other conclusion you could possibly come to, I do not know... more comprehensive testing? non biased facility? I'm honestly unsure if you were just trolling, or you totally missed the point here (along with so many other users who posted below; getting into arguments over moto vs dh, wearing a crappy helmet vs no helmet at all, etc.).
I won't deny that the certified helmets are safer and stronger, but these testing machines can't imitate real life situations accurately.
Edit: If anyone is wondering if I have any motocross experience, or am just talking out of my ass... have been racing MX for 13 years and DH for around 4. Have used both styles of helmets for DH, and had many big crashes in both.
If you catch my drift
@Jacob at the same time, what happens when the speeds in a DH race are higher? Then you will be less likely to be protected at all from the speed because the DH helmet will just fold and crumple. Just look at all the pictures of cracked DH lids out there, I can almost guarantee the mx helmet will be not as affected.
@stinky, go back and read the whole conversation, then comment.
Use helmets designed for bicycle riding for that is what we do.
My main point is that everyone tries to justify why DH helmets are "safer" by looking at one aspect of safety, when in reality, many different scenarios need to be protected against, and moto helmets provide protection for a lot more situations than a DH helmet does, making it safer overall.
while looking for a new helmet i was checking the wieghts of TLD MX lids. I saw that different U.S an European standard lids had different wieghts... the Euro standard was around half a K lighter
so i guess the U.S standard and testing is more rigorous?
I chose an MX lid cos i read some where that they work better with a neck brace
In my view to make a MX helmet worthwhile you need to be going at adequate speeds for downhill, so when Bryceland or Gwin use one it makes sense. Though when the 51 year old down the xc trail has one thinking bigger is better, its not the case.
Every helmet has its own target market, not for fashion but for function (bit of both to be fair). Regarding the eject system - its a new system and specialized have employed it in their new DH lid.
These certs are recommended for both down hill mountain biking and Bmx.
ASTM: is a standard for multiple impact
the fox carbon V3R DH lid is only 20g lighter than the Euro standard composite TLD air MX
i think theres a LOT more testing to be done before someone can say an MX lid is bad for DH
Parallels can be made to the MTB helmets. www.westcoastweasels.com/archives/PDF/Blowing_the_Lid_Off.pdf
Ride loose!
my point is... with so many different safety "standards" for different countrys let alone different sports an different impacts how can the testing be accurate
i know a lot of BMX riders that wear MX lids over DH lids for the same reasons stated that MX lids are not as good for DH
The speed at which DOT/snell helmets become less safe is approximately 9mph. I'm pretty sure that we all go faster than that on our bikes.
The only real difference is that a motocross helmet has to be able to disperse much higher amounts of energy.
If i didn't know better i would say that troy lee and the other helmet companies are putting these things out to try and boost sales.
9mph or less is the speed needed to make a DOT/Snell approved helmet less safe, I know Nobble already said it, but maybe if you nunks read it from two people you will understand.
I wear an MX lid for BMX racing and the only non DOT helmet I will wear is a D3 because it's a few vents too much to be DOT.
I've hit my head more times in my career with my Fly F2's than I have with any Bicycle specific helmet. I've had 4 concussions. All of them with a bicycle specific helmet.
This arguement is so tunnel visioned and one sided it's not funny. Look at the FACTS and HISTORY before going and beaking MX helmets to no end. I've seen ten times the concussions come out of Bicycle helmets that I have MX helmets. Why ? Well, maybe because their safer.
Way to go KTM. I feel as though my IQ went down about 50 points having to argue that a DOT helmet is safer than a non DOT.
And I'm sorry but if you think a helmet with lower density foam (DH) will save you head at 20mph more than a high density foam (MX) one, your mad. That makes absolutely no sense. A higher speed will do more damage so therefore it's protection at lower speeds would be higher. It's effectively the test in this video... The no certified helmet (DH effective) will protect a lesser impact, but the certified (MX effective) will protect a higher impact. Both would protect against a lower speed, lower energy impact, but the certified one will also work for faster higher energy impacts. The principal is the same, so again, how can you say a MX helmet is worse than a DH helmet on a mountain bike?!
Personally, I would never use an MX helmet, because they are heavier and less ventilated.
My first comment was basically saying that the different helmet types are designed for different impacts...
as mentioned previously, MX helmets are actually designed for road use because thats what they have to be certified for, so yes, they are designed to hit a SMOOTH road at 40-50+ mph, whereas the DH helmet is designed to hit uneven, usually rocky terrain, at maybe much lower speeds but ones that have the potential to do more damage.
I for one will never go back to using MX helmets after seeing and reading about the disadvantages, that and the weight etc.
DOT... DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION. Do you transport shit on smooth roads 24/7 ? No. Last time I checked you could use a transportation vehicle off road, which ultimately leads to non smooth surfaces.
Stop kissing pinkbikes ass and open your eyes.
Snell certification process
www.smf.org/testing
Now stay with me here this is where it gets tricky. The MX helmet, because of the higher standard, is built to take harsh hits. The forces felt and how the body reacts is very different at high and low speeds and thus combating them is different. What this means is that the given the same lower speed crash the DH helmet will cushion the blow sooner at that speed than the MX helmet will. This does not mean that the MX helmet is 'far more dangerous' than the DH helmet. Your brain will experience a higher threshold of force with the MX helmet before it gives and starts to compress than with the DH. That is why a DH helmet is 'safer' than an MX for DH specific riding. Again, does not mean that the MX helmet will put you at higher risk of traumatic brain injury. It just means that with the DH helmet you might not get your bell rung as hard than with the MX helmet. Remember 'safer' is relative term and that we are talking small differences here, not large ones. Also, because of that same setup, the DH helmet will reach its limit sooner than a MX helmet with much harder hits.
Warning: This video appears to contain actual facts from someone who actually knows what they're talking about and does NOT have a dubstep soudtrack. Contents may disturb young pinkbike users who don't seem to grasp science very well.
www.wired.com/design/2012/12/kranium
and they're working on a full face version...
So many people (including myself) wear non-approved helmets.
I am ordering a new helmet ASAP.
Minimizes the rebounding of the brain. The outer layer keep inner soft layer in one piece and distributes force on larger surface of inner layers and skull.
Now MX helmet is designed for higher speed crashes, so the inner layer is not only thicker (longer brake path for the brain) but also harder. So your brain in DH helmet on MX will blow through the "travel" of the inner layer and bottom out on the outer. On the other hand at lower DH speed in MX helmet your brain will have no chance to blow through the travel of harder foam and slamming harder on the skull.
www.agv.com/pl/agv/OFF-ROAD/AX-8%20EVO/PHILIPPAERTS%20ITALY
And this most stupid personal preference argument: it is my personal preference no helmet - not a single penny from my taxes for your medical treatment. And if you are in same insurance company I pay money to, I prefer you little pozer playing with your own and your family life to get nothing as well. Go pay full price for ambulance, staying at hospital, eventual surgery, treatment. Check how much that costs and f*ckin WEAR IT!
The test merely requires a helmet to be dropped from 1.2 - 2m, when a rider is mounted on their bike their head can be easily 2m above the ground. These are static tests too so speed will become a factor in the real world, how often do we fall straight down on to our heads from stationary?
I always wear a helmet, I have a nice scar on my head to remind me, I would always condone helmet use, especially by 'role models' employed by companies as ambassadors of their brands however do the standards that are set to protect us actually do that much for us or could they be improved further? DH and Freeride lids need to be able to take (in general) harsher impacts than xc lids, yet all abide by the same standard...
It is also interesting to note that the Bell helmet tested in the video is a new for 2013 model, how do their older models (still available on the shelves) stack up in these tests?
Bell are moving helmet design forwards with the feature laden Full 9 with a number of extra safety features available (some as an aftermarket upgrade) I wonder if other manufacturers will follow suit?
What is protective is CPSC qualified bike helmets, these types of helmets are designed to protect against life threatening injury mechanisms (major brain tram such as skull fractures), inherently these types of helmets also do a great job of protecting against a wide range of injuries that occur from minor falls at slow speeds to very dynamic high speed crashes.
For those who think they can control there fall, there playing odds and you will loss at some point.. I've seen a lot of helmet carnage, and so often the circumstances are one that the rider had no control over how they fell...
If it's a bike helmet in USA it is the federal law to comply with the CPSC specifications. There should be a sticker saying so in each helmet.
Wear a CPSC qualified helmet properly and expect to have excellent protection. Wear a DH ASTM-1952 helmet and expect additional protection on the sides and rear, plus the chin.
You can find a list of helmets that have been reviewed by a non profit group called the Bicycle Helmet Safety Institute.
The BHSI annual bicycle helmet report is at the link below.
bhsi.org/helmet12.htm
So safe travels and have fun ripping it up! It's been a great winter of riding so far...
really wish helmet manufacturers would start focusing on making us something reasonably affordable that can get our heads below that 100G threshold in a 2m fall/crash.
Good message and cinematography here though:
'You mean if I don't wear a helmet that you approve I am going to die?'
Certified or not, something is better than nothing. One drop test does nothing to approximate all the possible ways a person can fall on their head. This convinces me of nothing except that the Bell helmet performed better in that orientation than the unnamed helmet.
I don't care if my Pro-Tec is certified or not (better be for the stupid price of it), it's comfy & it's safer than a hat.
the ironic part of the story is when i went to the hospital to get myself checked over there was a woman who was clutching her head with a cloth, she caught her trousers in the chain on her bike and fell off without a helmet, she fell from riding height where i fell a good few times that, i only got checked over cos i was knocked clean out, she needed stiches, what im sayin is that if she wore a helmet she probably wouldnt even have needed to go to the hospital and if i didnt i probably wouldnt have made it to one so id just like to say thanks to fox, that helmet saved my ass!!
Although as mentioned above, certified for skateboarding (or any non-bicycle sport) is probably used as a convenient loop hole to try and sell other cheaper helmets :/
Note that some helmet models may be certified only to F1492 in some sizes, and not in others. If the manufacturer makes one shell size and just uses thinner foam inserts for larger size heads, for example, the large may not be certified. Or it may be the other way around and the small is not certified. That sticker in the helmet is the only thing you can rely on. It must be there, or all bets are off."
www.helmets.org/dualcert.htm
(I had to test electrical equipment to BS standards and EN standards in the past).
pffft americanized dik
he was just riding (fast) down the street wasnt doing tricks or anything......
fall was so quick i guess he didnt have time to react or get his hands up to save himself
just goes to show
www.pinkbike.com/photo/9010652
I have an Urge Enduro and was just riding like an idiot, washed the front tire and went head first into a fence post. Chipped my teeth. Helmet has noticable damage to the foam.
Generally, wear a good helmet. You dont plan smashing your head on the ground.