Guys shouldn’t write stories about girls. Well, actually they (we) (I) can’t. Why? Quite obviously, guys don’t know anything about girls. Other than they’re different. Really different. We live on separate planets, men and women. It’s proven. Many long and detailed leather bound books have been written on the subject. And while a guy like me shouldn’t write about women, I’m still going to try. Even at the risk of being ridiculed and sandblasted. I feel compelled, and even if this is a story that doesn’t venture into the mysterious vortex of “how girls think and why,” it does discuss their effect on something we’re all incredibly passionate about.
Yes, this is a story about girls in mountain biking. And it’s written by a guy (me).
Wish me luck.
When it comes to mountain biking, there aren’t too many women around. Sure, go to a cross-country race, or certain special nodes in the world, like Whistler, and they’re there. And many of them rip, make no mistake. But throughout the evolution of our sport, and even in the context of per capita participants today, women in mountain biking represent a small percentage. The big official stats from the Outdoor Industry Association (OIA) claim a 2:1 men to women ratio across all mountain bike disciplines in the U.S. Dive behind the scenes into Facebook Insight stats from some of the sport’s larger companies (I had access to one) and it suggests a much smaller percentage, perhaps as low as 10%. So, to be fair, somewhere between 10% to 30% of all mountain bikers are female. Which sucks, and, in my opinion reflects negatively on our sport. In many different ways.
Firstly, as someone who grew up mountain biking, I had to endure (along with many of my friends) the pains of a girl vacuum. In the 80s and 90s there were NO girls mountain biking. Some would suggest the reasons are obvious. But I prefer to not believe that scars and mud and eating shit on a regular basis pushed women away. Maybe so. But really, think about it, humans are some 4 million years into this thing called evolution. Girls have endured a lot more than pedal bites and broken wrists throughout their history. You could even argue that they're tougher than men when it comes to pain and suffering. I would put childbirth in brackets but that might get me flogged.
Not having girls around at the outset of the sport has dramatically influenced its development. This is a dude sport. Companies are run by dudes. The big pro athlete contracts are signed by dudes. Bikes are primarily designed and built for dudes. Pretty much all of mountain biking’s imagery and marketing is dude-centric. It’s basically a dude-o-sphere populated by massive dudeness that can only, by virtue of its almighty dude, continue down the one-way road to dude-town.
Which sucks. Look at surfing. God, I wish I were a surfer. Girls all over the place. And I’m not saying this because I like bikinis and wet bodies and all that wonderful stuff (which I do of course, I’m a dude for crissakes!), but in the want to be somewhat cultured and intelligent (which can be hard for dudes), I know that girls add a certain element of balance to any endeavor. They are smarter, cooler and much more grounded than dudes, especially the athletic ones. Not to mention, quite simply, they represent the other half of our species. We need them, in more ways than we know or are willing to acknowledge.
Secondly, not having girls involved in mountain biking in a significant way has greatly diminished the potential of our sport. Because of the dude brigade, and the fact that only 10% to 30% of mountain bikers are women means that our sport is that much smaller. Imagine if it were 60-40, or even better, 50-50? If there are 7 million mountain bikers in the United States right now (2012 OIA stat), we could increase that number by a few million participants. Which is a huge deal. More jobs, more mountain bike economic muscle, more critical mass, more people working with, riding on, and loving bicycles. And the Good Lord only knows, if there is one thing this planet needs right now it's more people riding bicycles (especially girls).
Thirdly, because girls don’t play an equal role in our sport, it’s my belief that we’ve created a girl backlash of sorts. And I get it. Dudes like to ride with dudes. And we give’r. And sure, while we like to ride with girls, it doesn’t seem to happen much. At least in the circles I ride with. Today, girls (for the most part) seem to prefer riding with girls. And sure, this happens in many facets of society—go to a dinner party and it’s girls on the couch and dudes on the porch. But as women start to gain a larger profile in our sport (which is happening), they’ve been forced to band together. They’re women specific camps, riding groups, clubs. And I think that’s awesome. It’s a natural reaction to the situation. But is that lack of integration an ideal scenario? And maybe I’m just old school, and it’s too late for me. And I do see the younger generation and the inklings of inclusion are there. Maybe I’m jealous that I missed out on that. But you have to agree, a more harmonious blend of women and men riding together is the way it should be…like surfing.
Finally, while we might be from different planets, the circles that go round and round on our bikes don’t care what kind of engine makes them turn. And really, nor should we. Outdoor sports that are killing it right now have an equal balance of men and women: climbing, skiing, snowboarding, kayaking. Yes, rad dudes are cool. Truth is though, rad dudes shredding with rad chicks is way cooler. So, to all the girls, sorry a guy had to write this. The dude inside dictated that I abide.
There's not a lot of women that ride bikes. This could be because getting dirty, sweaty and injured isn't enticing to ladies or it's because they don't know how awesome it is yet. So go outside, bring a lady friend and introduce her to the sport at a level she's comfortable with and use positive reinforcement.
(use a quote from a WOMAN'S perspective). The end.
I've seen you pop up every now and again on here, you seem like a pretty cool, intelligent and articulate lady. What's your take on the apparent lack of women in our sport? Good news on the injury.
We shouldn't have to suddenly respect people based solely on gender either. Just respect the person (if they deserve respect) and all is good. I can see women being upset about *those* comments...
but I truly think amongst the bike community that's not a huge problem, I haven't seen anyone make comments like that over women bikers....unless it's the woman herself that's purposely encouraging those types of comments , if you know what I'm getting at.
The mountain biking community itself is respectful to both sides.
and if other guys are giving you compliments about your looks , why get mad. It probably means you're good looking. The opposite gender is naturally attracted to each other. There's nothing wrong with that. We're human after all.
and It's not a gender specific sport like some people are implying. It's just a bike. and people gonna ride 'em.
The end.
but if we're going blame , blame society wanting too many princesses and beauty queens for daughters. Like cobvious said , bikes are simply all about the fun. That's all that matters.
I'll shut up now
Also I'm curious, why did you not get another doctor? They have a legal obligation, it should've been no problem to get surgery elsewhere.
As for the comments about fullbug's comment about the Mud Bunnies calendar, specifically Mud Bunnies is actually a women's mountain biking club, and they (women) produce their own calendar. Any of the mud bunnies can correct me on that if I'm wrong...
I guess what i'm trying to say in my own clumsy way, is don't be afraid of looking good. (Or taking photos of people (men or women) looking good) It certainly doesn't hurt the sport, and who knows - maybe it will do some good. Keep up the good work Ian, love your work.
could be wrong , I'm a biker not a scientist
riding alone takes all that out, you go your own speed, and dont have to slow down or keep up with anybody.
cheers
sometimes you have to learn the basics on your own , I know it's no fun riding with people who've been riding for 4 years longer than I have. My advice for her would just find some people around the same skill set , that's what I did. worked perfectly and it makes riding much more enjoyable because you don't feel like crap at the end. Good confidence booster as well
and my long username is easy because it rhymes
Thats not necessary. Its alright to have mens sports and its alright to have women's sports, just because men gravitate to one thing doesn't mean women have to. More woman riding would be nice but if they dont want to thats fine. You dont have to go to these pathetic lengths of female worship to somehow convince us that we must assimilate women.
medicaldaily.com/news/20120515/9894/relationship-exercise-cycling-bicycle-women.htm
BTW aleksulmer it's not only about women - I get the numb willy syndrome every now and then. They say it's caused by the wrong seat setup and can be relieved by massage - I massage myself deliberately on long rides, just as roadies on races - pervert sport that is!
Chamois cream helps but is very dangerous - some buddy of yours might play a practical joke on you and put Ben Gay into the tube instead. Getting Ben Gay on your crotch may be worse that child birth pain...
trust me........if someone/something hits you just right , you'll be done for hours.
I only thought that article I found was ridiculous because it seemed to only address "cycling" as casual biking, when obviously women participate in not just beach cruising but downhilling, XC, whatever. The article provides limited data in that sense, so that's why I thought it was kinda stupid.
He has at least one clean finger!!
There is definitly a lack of girls riding where i live and ride.
As a father, i'm doing my part to bring balance. my daughter finished her 3rd year of skiing this year. I wanted her on the snow at an early age so it became something that was part of her life and also as a way for the two of us to spend time together. When she's older, I don't want her to think that its just the boys that ski. Everyone does it. One of the times she fell while skiing and I laughed. Not at her, mind you, with her. I would laugh at any of my friends whenever they crashed. Provided they were not injured. She was actually upset with this. So I explained to her that its ok to crash and fall. and its ok to laugh with your friends about it too. as long as they're not injured. So, later, when she asked me to go off some big jump, i asked her what she'll do if I crash. Her response,"laugh, but not if you're hurt" Gave her knuckles and hit the jump.
Basically, treat her like one of the boys.
btw, in case anyone tries to take this wrong, men are still mostly to blame.
-joel
On the other end, I think mechanic guys in bike shop should be more aware of the differences between men and women body to be able to set up a nice bike with nice components for girls. I know that it is not all the girls that need it but for myself, (I'm 5'3 and 105lbs) I totally need a special set up to be comfortable on a bike. I need air suspension for there is no coil soft enough. I need the brake lever to be closer because I have very tiny hand, etc. Those little details will make a difference on long days. And I am no mechanic at all ! But these guys that know what we need are a rare species. And they can make the difference on the girl population in downhill specifically. (XC has its own WSD anyway) I have been looking for a downhill bike since last year. I haven't found the one yet. I have been very disappointed in my shopping experiences for 3 shops have tried to sell me medium size bikes which are way too big for me. At the end, I was even wandering why I wanted a DH bike so badly and almost ended up buying myself a golf kit !!! There is place for improvement, but I am confident that it will change over time...
Another reason why there aren't so many girls out there, well, it is part of the life cycle...women have kids....in the group of age 25-35, you can see a decline in women biker population just because we are kind enough to let you guys play outside and stay home safe with the babies Many of my friends stop biking during their pregnancy, switch to running, and never get back on their bike. Or only once or twice a year.
good article though, some great points were raised...
so, maybe we can all show a little respect towards a picture of a girl with a bike and help make MTB less of a sausage fest...
If you guys care about bringing more women into the sport then focus on the real world and introduce lady friends into riding (oh look I just summarized the whole article above in one sentence!). That's how you get more women into this sport is by actually bringing them riding, not by bitching at 13 year old kids who write stupid crap on a website.
I've also noticed it's always guys who bring up your point. I'd love to see what a women says about this because so far all the women I've met (in real life omg) who are a part of online communities for mtbing/freeskiing don't give a shit about what's said online... and really why should they?
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that comments on an online site is a non-issue and if you think it is, then maybe you should go outside for a while.
when this article was posted there were a slew of much more lewd comments that were deleted, that's what I and others were referring to...
i was only suggesting people show some respect, not b*tching at 13 year old's, i also said those comments (such as "she needs to sit on my face" and "i'd still take her even with the red hair" those were one of the deleted ones) were not helping women who were reading this, want to get further into the sport, nothing about "never willing to pick up a bike again", if nothing else it is not heightening their opinion of guys who ride...
as for real life, i'm married to a girl that rides...
My little sister also rides and frequents some "ladies only" internet forums ( all kinds of sports not just MTB ), i was surprised at all the stuff the ladies come up when psting/watching dudes pics on there. Most dudes would blush reading what those ladies write
To reach more women pinkbike's not really the best source. The ones of us on here are already into the sport and quite accustomed to the bonehead replies any women's articles on pinkbike receive! I liked this article though did not wholly agree with everything in it.
I keep joking about Specialized designing the Femo-8 women's specific dh bike... mostly I'd just want it to be really light and pink. I feel like smoking guys on a hot pink bike would just be too fun.
Using photos of attractive women and using surfing to argue your point has massively devalued your argument. I read this article as..'Yeah we need chicks at the trails- we love hot girls....' when it should have read... 'MTB is awesome and we should do what we can to make the sport accessible to everyone'. It should be about the amount of enjoyment the girls could get, not about the enjoyment us 'dudes' would get by having them there.
@rippin-norco - You're right in that he tried something I wouldn't.... I'm not that stupid. I honestly think you cannot make any generalisations these days. Are all men the same? Hell no! I think the focus should move away from getting more girls involved and move towards trying to get ANYONE involved. Gender, race, weight, age etc are all just ways in which people are pigeon holed incorrectly. I want to ride with other people who love it like I do- that's all I care about.
Now that I think about it, this whole thing is pretty damned stupid.
scott - the surf club has more members, but not by a huge margin. We have 20 or so, they probably have around 30? I think it's a fair comparison to make.
I'm merely making an observation. Obviously it's not enough to come to some sort of hard conclusion from, but the surf club seems to attract more women. S'all I'm saying.
There's countless reasons why you cannot compare two different sports and that's really all I'm saying. There's no huge mystery or issue as to why there aren't more women bikers out there... I don't see why this dude Mitchell brought it upon himself to try to make an issue out of it anyways, haha.
though that's a bit of a stereotypical view to take, plenty of girls don't mind getting muddy. I know a good few guys that would be more at home topping up their tan on a beach as opposed to getting muddy on a bike though...
What did you post? A girl with a huge rack and a full-face, and a girl with a lip ring and a piss-pot looking sultry.
One photo amongst twelve showed a woman doing something that might wouldn't even get fave'd if it were a guy doing it.
And you wonder why no Y.
They aren't sponsored to sell bikes to women, they're sponsored to sell sex via a posh bike to men.
Now don't get me wrong, I get as hot under the collar from a fit cycling chick as much as anyone. I got my girlfriend into xc mountain biking, and she looks f*cking hot in lycra. I'm sure any girl who cycles downhill might get hot under the collar at the idea of Aaron Gwin (though probably not Danny Hart, no matter how bad-ass he is), but I don't think this article is defensible.
Huge rack? Dude, THAT is not a huge rack.
The way you managed to sexualize both of those photos and see them as anything other than mountain bikers doing shit that mountain bikers do is exactly the problem... those weren't "model" shots by any measure and I've seen dozens, if not hundreds, of shots of dudes in exactly the same type of positions. There's a dozen pictures in this article and not one of them is hyper-sexualized in any way. The issue isn't this article... it's jackasses like you who get so twitterpated at the sight of a woman that YOU make everything about sex. Seriously, grow up...
They are doing shit that mountain bikers do. If it were a guy doing that, he would not have got front page time.
So why didn't they use a single championship winning female rider.
You say that this article and its photographic representation of women is the problem, but then you spend the next few paragraphs objectifying women.
"a girl with a huge rack"? Nice language there. Good to see you're focusing on the riding / quality of photo.
"She's not "doing something", she's sitting on a lift looking hot." And again, looking hot is a subjective thing. Take what you consider to be beauty out and you've got someone sitting in a lift, in a great photo, conveying mood, and a feeling of scale-of-landscape 'etc.
I've seen plenty of pictures of Gee, Gwin and the like sat on chairlifts in beautiful photography, but because she's a women and you find her attractive you've decided thats not ok?
Just because YOU find a girl attractive, you've decided that is not the best / or most 'equal-rights' way to show women in mountain biking!?
Are you saying that attractive women in casual poses is not an appropriate representation of women in mountain biking?
www.pinkbike.com/photo/6836760
www.pinkbike.com/photo/6148667
brimages.bikeboardmedia.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/cosmo-gee-atherton-nude-dec2009-3.jpg
...and if you think that photo of Gee isn't touched up to some degree, you just don't know photography.
well written and funny to read.
Nice article PB.
There still is amazing world class female riders today, but they do not get the same press as the "old" brigade got- I read decline, bike, MB UK and soooo many more and the coverage of women's biking is a almost null....very different from the late 90's-early 20's where you would see women on the cover of major bike mag's....
In short thanks to all the Women racers out there for inspiring me...today I live in Whistler, and every wednesday it makes me smile when I see a bunch of women line up Women's Wednesday...great program that many more trail centers should adapt!!!
Jesus, Glaspell. That's such supreme bullshit and arrogance both! Your daughter's choices don't "empower women." They might empower HER but they don't extrapolate outward.
Stick to wrenching. Social commentary and theory isn't your bag, bucko. And your daughter may be a wonderful young person (she probably is), but she's not turning into Susan B Anthony or Rosa Luxembourg simply by riding a bicycle.
Signed, Jesus Glaspell
Perhaps I do not know what empowerment means? but I assume bringing my 7 year old daughter to an event with a group of women that have done great things in their lives, in their community and to others, will give my daughter even more tools in enriching her life as a woman, than what she is given in her own home and in our family.
I don't think I am arrogant, I just don't know how to write well often times...and you clearly are a much better author, in addition to already having some bone to pick with me, so continue to hate-I can appreciate. Cheers
I'm telling you how your crazy self-promotion comes across here, and on ridemonkey. I mean seriously: your little daughter "empowers women" by riding a bike? How exactly does that work?
And why does my offering critical analysis of your self-promotion equate to "hate"? Hell, I don't even know you, so how can I hate you as a person?
I'm criticizing posts. There's no "hate" or hate involved. It's just logic and reasoning, pal. Nothing more.
I'd also remind you that you have built a Public Persona that you milk on the internet, and because that's what you do, you aren't really entitled to act as though people are "hating on" or literally hating you. Go read some 1st Amendment cases about public figures and defamation.
I wonder why you need to see someone else do a thing before you feel you can do it. Why do you need external validation? Why can't you just pursue what you want?
Every successful person I've known hasn't cared what others thought. He or she just wanted something, and went after it -- to hell with others.
Perspectives like yours, Mitchell Scotts, and Glaspells -- they just relegate women to inferiors who need "lifting up" or "role models to emulate." Nobody needs those things. What people need is to free themselves from the idea that nothing matters if someone else isn't doing it first.
I can't believe the amount of cliche, bullcrap and non-thinking that people allow to guide their lives. I'd say that's the bigger obstacle -- not following your true self, but instead following the herd.
As to empowerment by watching another: what power did you lack before watching someone else gave you that power? Describe the power for me. Please.
You'll notice I didn't make any personal comments/attacks about you--since you like to deal in facts so much, I just stuck to the facts. You, on the other hand, turned to personal insults, insinuating that I'm just some dull follower. What you don't know is that I spent the past 5 years teaching other women to ride with the Dirt Series mountain bike camps--so to claim that I'm just following is pretty ironic. It's also ignorant of how a lot of women like to learn some more physically dangerous activities like mountain biking--they do prefer to see someone else do it first, to understand how the skill is broken down, to know how to safely do it. So your claim that seeing someone else do something first makes people just part of a herd ignores a significant amount of real-world experience, not to mention scientific learning theory. You see, there's these cells in your brain called "mirror neurons" that actually fire when you see someone else do something, in exactly the same way they'd fire if you were doing that activity yourself. So seeing someone else do something can be a *powerful* way for people to learn. I can send you some research articles if you'd like to find out more.
A few thoughts: As a woman, no matter how fit and experienced you are, if you are riding with men who are equally as fit and experienced you will be at the back most of the time, playing catch up. That's why its good to ride with other women. We all want to get to top of the hill/bottom of the trail first sometimes!
Also, when it comes to technical riding, I think women tend to like to know what they are doing and don't take uncalculated risks like men will - but that doesn't mean we're scared off. A lot of the women I know who mtbike also ride horses. Now that's a dangerous sport!
PS Most of my mtbiking friends are over 40 years of age. Are we represented in the mtbiking media? Need you ask?
as a instructor for some years now, i can attest to many of your observations directly through experiencing teaching women's only camps.
Like you, my biology and physiology unfortunately does dictate my physical capabilities which frustrates me considerable at times but also means, like many women and smaller physiqued dudes, I learn to finesse a trail. But like you, i don't always want to ride last when i ride with the men. Fortunately that's becoming less of a problem as my skills increase
I just dont know why we all can't respect the differences and appreciate the similarities. Ultimately, does it even matter if we all just love to ride bikes?
Male = XY
FEMALE =XX
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_sex-determination_system
Perhaps ignorance is the real issue?
Great article, and yeah the girl with the lip ring is pretty darn hot, I want one
I also ride a guy's bike, and wear guy's gear which doesn't bother me at all or make me feel any less feminine. When my mind is on riding I'm not the least bit concerned about what anyone thinks of me, and the guys respect me for that. Biking is biking regardless. So to all the girls or women or whatever you want to call yourselves who think that guys don't respect you on the trails - respect is earned. Try being a little less fussy.
EDIT: I just realised I posted this as my boyfriend not realising he hadn't logged out. See? We can all get along. Now I am going to hide the laptop before he finds out. em-j
My wife and i have been in the industry for a long time and she's working harder than ever on this right now.
Here is an example of what she is doing for women in the sport.
Her first fully self promoted womens event.
www.vitalmtb.com/videos/member/Dixie-Trix-2012-Women-jumping-fatty-ranchstyle,13325/k-shiz,14
Don't shoot the messenger, he's trying to get it and kudos to him for putting himself out there! I know I myself go ballistic when I see local sites advertise things like a "BroCard" to get discounts on mtb gear. A BroCard?? Seriously?! This tells me that women aren't exactly high on their list. And try looking for women's results on some of the mtb websites and you still have to dig deep, if you find it at all.
Want more women in the sport? Then write articles about us, feature us in promotional materials, let us know you take us seriously.
Even womens clothing can be sub standard to the guys, i prefer to ride in boys dh shorts, as they are longer and actually cover my knee pads, i cant stand that womens shorts are cut short, so ride up and leave a gap between short and knee pad!! However the clothing is getting better and not everything is pink and covered in flowers and swirls now either lol I know alot of my gf think im weird for biking and getting muddy and covered in cuts and bruises, when i could spend the money on shoes and crap, but id much prefer to be out biking than shopping any day
Then there is the technical side, owning a bike requires knowing how to fix it!!
I think downhill could help encourage more girls if they were treated equal to guys. For example why are the women run as one group generally early in the day? Why arent elite women at least run before the elite mens for race runs.
The only negative point is gear. The market isn't a large therefore finding decent clothes, general stuff and DH bikes small enough can be a challenge.
As for surfing.... How many of the girls are beach bunny's and how many actually surf?? When I'm surfing the ratio in the water isn't far off MTB'ing, unless it's an easy super sunny day.
Nothing wrong with a dude writing about women's riding, it's just good to see something! Anything.
I found the article funny and it (somewhat) did what it was supposed to do: start a discussion. But it is light reading; not a phd thesis.
And I loved some of the photos not only but also because there were women in them. I like the way women look. And, unless you forget everything else they may offer, that isn't a bad thing. It can't be.
As a female engineer and mountain biker and outdoor freak, there is definitely a part of me that would LOVE to write this article from a woman's point of view, but I won't. Because it will be a lot of (grammatically correct) writing, no pictures for silly people to ogle at, pictures of sick trails, mean feats of daring and general inspiration for riding, and probably (almost definitely) a lot of sweeping generalizations. Because as a woman, I'm not immune to the problem of trying to describe other people's experiences, either.
And then the interwebs would blow up in reaction to this theoretical article and we would not have progressed as a community, again. Solution: (I'll) (we'll) shut up, get stoked, make friends, and enjoy the ride.
Ok, mini-rant over. I think the author made a lot of great points that I agree with and often reflect my own experience in riding so far. The "dude" paragraph is so funny and is making my Friday-at-work-before-a-long-weekend that much better.
Most (not all) of the women who I see come into the shop I work at are looking to bike more casually, as a way to stay in shape or go on easy simple rides somewhere with friends. I feel that mountain biking can be really intimidating, I still feel that. I am fortunate enough that I can convince the guys I work with to go ride with me, because I don't really feel comfortable riding the trails by myself yet. And in an area where there aren't many female riders, I can see how that would affect women wanting to get into the sport.
Oh, and guys judge women in biking all the time. In two weeks, I have heard at least three comments to my face (and who knows how many not) about my wrenching ability/bike knowledge while working in the shop. Just because a girl works at a shop, don't assume that she is just there to work the cash register.
That being said, I have no issues looking at beautiful women on bikes either:-)
Most men will agree, that they would also like to see more women around for the obvious reason of enjoying the company of women. However, one way to get more women on the trail, is to dispense with the idiotic sexualizing comments about sniffing saddles and following her downhill. That type of stupidity only shows that you have no class, no brains, and no game - no game whatsoever.
As for this article. Some women love riding. Some women don't. Same goes for men. We all have different motives for getting out and riding.
My point is, its not about being a dude or a girl riding bikes anymore its about the people who run these companies for one reason $$$$$$$$$$
PB included look how you used the cute one to sell this topic and get more traffic to the site.......
Girls dont worry we respect you no matter what way you ride your bikes DH XC AM
Lame. PB should be ashamed poor effort IMHO.
erniesbot- You're a dirtbag, probably only a kid, and will probably never get laid without an attached prison-term. Your the reason lesbians exist.
Living and riding the North Shore, I could introduce you to girls that go BIG all the time and even hit stunts some guys I know wouldn't. And trust me there are plenty of girls that are competitive out here! They're not competing against guys but other women while racing riding the trails, you name it. I think it all comes down to ones personal mtb community like you said. The best thing you could do is ride with a girl and maybe get her stoked on riding, show her what you've learned from riding with the boys.
I learned how to ride with some very supportive guys before I started riding with other women so I can definitely understand why you have that view. I don't even disagree that boys are more naturally agressive, and that they do push each other to go bigger. Come ride Whistler or the North shore or anywhere that has a good population of women that ride, and at the sames skill level as you and you might actually be surprised
I'm just generalising based on the gap between men and women's riding I suppose, like in the world cups women chose different lines etc which lead me to my conclusion, and trust me, I'd LOVE to go to Whistler!
....While I dont have children it must be the same when your kid first skates, rides, skis, jumps, inside you are screaming GO GO GO YEAH!!!! But you have to remain calm and let the experience and accomplishment speak for itself. I also got my ass handed to me by her friend on a long uphill that psychologically nearly broke me and required me to find something inside that made me take my heartrate into the danger zone to keep up with her(in the past I have given up and pushed my bike) but this time she made me grow and find something I didnt know I had. My buddy jumped a section of trail to make it faster and smoother and while I have not tried to jump that section I can see it is possible; it makes me want to learn more. Invite people into the experience of your passions, share your excitement, shun discrimination and infect others with your shit-eating grins.
She does prefer to ride with the women's group and she says she feels less self conscious around them. I think guys always add "and she's a girls" to the end of everything thing she does on a bike in their heads and it shows in how they act. I hope that isn't something my girls have to deal with.
XX = female
XY = male
Further proof that Mitchell Scott is talking out his ass.
He's an arrogant ass, as well as ignorant -- and a poor writer.
What in hell does PB pay him? I guarantee I could do twice the job at the same pay, and thereby save PB 50% in the bargain.
But then, I don't have ex-BIKEmag "insider" status, do I? Jesus. Felton at RM, Scott at PB... lousy writers with guaranteed jobs. What rubbish.
I guess there's an upside: they are better writers than those clowns at BikeRadar.
I have to give props to the guys I've ridden with. Even random strangers on the trails around here think nothing of stopping and helping you out with some advice on how to clear that rock garden, or get up the hill faster. I ride every week with a group of girls, because it's super chill and really supportive, and we all learn off each other. But I love riding with my guy friends - because they take me on stuff I wouldn't take on myself, encourage me to push my limits, and celebrate with me when I nail something.
I'm a huge fan of the girl groups and girl clinics. We learn differently, and assess risk differently to guys. It's wonderful to learn from other girls, and watch a chick rip a line and think "I could do that ..." I think a lot of girls try MTB, and are put off by being pushed too hard, and too fast, and getting scared and hurt. Some girls get over that, and some don't. So if your girl shows interest, be nice!!! and if it's available, send her for some professional coaching to build her confidence. it might make all the difference.
Peace.
I would suggest introducing females into the sport at a young age and mentoring them to build their skills.The "girls" in the pics look really young to me but they have probably been riding for a while. Many females are not introduced to MTB at a young age Many women try mountain biking and drop out because it is a tough sport to learn and requires strength and stamina to sustain... dh is a greater challenging skill set. I think one of the keys is to find ways that keep women riding. I hope the "girls" remain in the sport and develop into "mature" women riders so they can mentor and inspire others to ride,
You say "In the 80s and 90s there were NO girls mountain biking." Rubbish. Where were you mountain biking? In Broadmoor?
The majority of girls I know just aren't insterested in riding a bike- not even to the shops! And thats OK! I like being unique- I like hanging with the boys- and I love my bike
I'm pretty stoked about the number of women I see riding now and hitting the jumps and am all for promoting mountain biking to more women!
Just like you can't lump all male riders together due to a broad range of skill (I, too, am not all that crazy about the local club rides for the same reasons), you can't do that with women, either. But it may take some time for more women to fall in love with mtn biking so they are no longer a single "group".
There was a recent video on Pinkbike with a woman rider from Scotland ripping up some tech trails on a hardtail - impressive. Or the woman rider from Projekt Roam (the Silverstar video rocks!), who's clearly got the chops.
I certainly hope that change happens sooner rather than later. It'd be a good thing for everybody IMHO.
I've been riding bikes for many years, XC, DH, freeride and commuting, and heard lots of opinions on this topic. I agree that there's a small element of intimidation (skills required, male-dominated, technical-know-how) and dislike for getting hurt/dirty. Conversely, I think most mountain bikers do encourage others to ride and are genuinely stoked to take newbies out and show them how to ride/around their local trails. I also think most guys who have GF/wives/daughters encourage them to participate, too. The % of guys who are completely against supporting women and frown on their involvement or inclusion on rides, I think, is minimal.
So, here are some additional thoughts and observations:
1. Mountain biking is a solo sport HOWEVER it does typically involve moving from A to B in a group of 2 or more. This makes it a bit unique. Surfing doesn't require this - you hang out in the same spot all day and doesn't matter if you catch more or less waves, you're still all together. Fishing doesn't require this. Golf even forces you to play one hole at a time so waiting is necessary. Backcountry skiing/boarding (longer runs) and running are similar, but definitely more established (running is also very accessible when it comes to gear/skill/terrain. Keeping up is definitely an issue in MTB and not just for girls in groups of guys. It's a common concern on female-only rides, or even guy-only rides as someone already mentioned above.
...to be continued below...
2. Girls aren't typically attracted to solo sports. They are attracted to teams because young girls gain strength and confidence through validation and "fitting in". It is not common for young girls to break away on their own to play a solo sport, especially one that is dominated by boys who are more fearless (which likely scares the shit out of the parents of girls). I read this in an article that compares the psychology of team and individual sports...quote "The study showed significant differences in individuals who played team sports, like volleyball, and people who played individual sports, like tennis, track and golf. Participants on the volleyball team, a team sport, tended to display more traits associated with introversion such as being reliable and thoughtful. Learning to cooperate with other players and sharing the recognition for a win with other people tend to require being less bold and outgoing, and instead, being calmer, rational, and aware of surroundings. Participants of individual sports, where the pressure is all on you to perform reflected traits of extroversion such as being outgoing, energetic, spontaneous and to some extent egotistical." (intro2psych.wordpress.com/2009/05/15/the-riddle-of-personality-and-sport). Most of the girls I know who ride DH/freeride/DJ have very strong personalities - even their personalities can intimidate other women. I have found XC/road riders definitely less aggressive - this is a sweeping generalisation, but fitting for where I live and ride (BC).
...continued below...
3. Mountain biking is fairly new (only a couple of decades old as an established sport) and most of our parents are baby boomers who are more conservative in their approach to what sports kids should play (also reflected in school curriculum). I bet once the X and Y generations have kids there will be more and more support and encouragement for kids to participate in action sports. There will likely be more tolerance of the costs, too. I know my parents would be shocked at the worth of my bike quiver & gear.
4. Lack of girl bike gear - there's not enough demand yet so the supply is low. It's a catch 22. But, there are definitely more female-specific frames in market now.
5. It can take a full biking career to become a professional and a mentor to kids and other adults. There were significantly less women racing/pushing limits over the past 10-20 years compared to men (e.g. Streb). As the hot riders of the last 5 years start to retire and/or supplement their careers with coaching, more woman are influencing new riders (e.g. Turenne, Buchar, Donahugh, Pruitt, Kintner, Llanes and many more).
6. And finally, THERE ARE MANY MORE GIRLS RIDING NOW compared to 10, 5, even 3 years ago. I see more girls on the trails, at races (almost triple the number riding 6 yrs ago), in the LBSs, in photos (but not videos), at club rides, tweeting about biking, and starting bike-related businesses. Even though the growth is small, I'm personally stoked.
Not sure anyone will get around to reading this download, but felt compelled - I'm always keen to hear opinions as to why there are less women.
We did a couple of Ladies only rides last year which we are about to start up again, and it was really great to see how many of the guys OH/wives joined us who had never been out on a bike before/within the last decade, and absolutely loved it. Muddy, soaked, knackered and chatting away like they do it every week!
I think if biking is something you are bought up doing, then you already have your wits about you just to carry on, I picked up a bike 18mths ago and have barely put it down since, and I know its one of the best feelings to beat the guys when you've worked so hard for it, but that doesn't come overnight. It is really daunting at times being out with a group of guys no matter what the numbers, because there is always that bit more competition and at times you do get left behind, but that will happen in every sport. I think the thing to be focusing on is to continue to make the sport accessible for women, encourage people to ride to a level they are confident with, and then learn to push that. You guys all do the macho thing when you've nailed a section you've not managed before, but guess what, so do we!
My friend isn't into the majority of sports at all but she is particularly interested in tennis.She watches Wimbledon and has kept up with the US Open recently, anyway she always mentioned having a go at it and I suggested that we go try it out. When I went to pick her up she thought that I wasn't actually being serious (I guess it didn't help taking her to a specific tennis centre instead of just the local leisure centre, It was a bit intimidating for both of us as we'd never played before). So we gave it a go, she wasn't great (neither was I though :3, but she didn't think that) but I made sure too keep encouraging her and concentrate on just our game, no one else's. She enjoyed it and even wants to do it again.
Mountain biking is just as accessible as tennis in terms of gender. The problem isn't the sport, It's the nature of the people who want to engage in it. Men shouldn't push women away from the sport, If they show an interest then try to help them get into biking. If they don't then that's fine, It's dependant upon the individual.
Women might not think they are worth it or good enough to be part of something like this; something that expresses freedom. So, Its up to me ( one person at a time), to push mountain biking. Im not waiting for you to do it!.
Glad this article was here.
Those other sports mentioned still have risk associated with them, but snow and water will nearly always make for a softer landing.
The more reasons and perspectives encouraging women to freeride/DH, the better. At the same time, if we really want more girls riding, we need to sponsor more women. Even if the top ladies' skills don't always measure up to the top mens'.Until the industry takes women seriously as riders, it may be hard to find a large number of us seriously shredding.
Along that thread, while I see room for (and value) images of beautiful women shredding – even if a bit sexualized– those can't be the only ones.
It's a difficult dichotomy for women riders when beauty is often valued as much as, if not more than, their ability. How are we supposed to throw down and push limits if we're scared of how we will look with scars on our legs or dirt on our faces? The solution : glorify women in their bloody, dirt-covered, beat-down, "ugly" moments.
Finally, Much of women's riding clothing doesn't fit well for women over about a size 8/10. The average size of women in the United States is 14. If we continue treating average-sized women as an anomaly in the bike industry, they will stay an anomaly. All I'm saying is that when over 50% of the women in the U.S. would struggle to find appropriate gear to ride in, it is a little unreasonable to expect their equal participation.
Thanks
It's a good point to think globally ... And while I think I may have put too much emphasis on the size of things – though average British dress size is now a 14/16, Canadian 8-10, New Zealand 12 (and who knows what those sizes really mean!!!!). Asia and Europe probably trend lower, and I have no idea about S. America.
The real issue is that it's perhaps a lot harder to fit a variety of women than a variety of men (apples, pears, hourglasses, rectangles, oh my!) And since the market is *currently* small, it's not able to accomodate all of these shapes and sizes. Smaller girls often just buy a size or two bigger so things don't restrict, or so they can fit pads under the girly cuts...but those that are already a L or XL are just out of luck. I'm not sure how you fix this - just making things in bigger and bigger sizes clearly isn't the answer.
I see all sizes of women, most of whom are considerably smaller than the US average struggle with the fit & tech features of women's clothing - In fact, I just saw one very talented woman wearing men's elbow pads as knee pads because they were the only thing that fit. And, I'm still not sure how I'm supposed to fit armor under most any of the women's DH jerseys, or why my shorts are always falling down when I ride . We somehow need more variety to get more women in the sport...but we also need more women in order to get that kind of variety!
Honestly, I don't know the answer to this conundrum ... I'm a bit of a fashion disaster myself.
Mtb'ing is a relative young sport, there will be riding alot of girls in the future!
www.pinkbike.com/video/255842
I think part of it is probably money, i am stuck on a crappy HT but i just use my dads full sus (my dad got me into it surprise) I cant afford to fix my bike - let alone get a new one! its a difficult sport to get into, especially when you are young... I couldnt bring my (ex (see above)) gf riding cos' her wee bike would disintegrate!
It's a shame that it's so expensive cos it makes it difficult to step up from easy trails to shredding big shit!
Just a few questions that popped into my head before realizing what was actually going on in the photo.
There you go!
Huh??? What kind of statement is that?? 20 years ago I would have agreed with this, but times have changed!!
And only 10% to 30% of all riders are female?? I find that hard to believe too.
The main pseudo-essay by Mitchell really hasn't earned my respect, because it's insipid and pathetic.
Respect must be earned. It's not something that one deserves without earning. Mitchell hasn't earned it here. Nor has "stikman" with his nonsensical commentary and self-promotion.
. . . and you never know!!! -------------------- (ironic example of the MBF in action)
"I LOVE GIRL RIDERS"..11.000 Fans from all over the World
What we do? CELEBRATION OF GIRLS DOING WHAT THEY DO = RIDING
..because We Love Girl Riders..
Follow us!!! www.facebook.com/ILoveGirlsRiders
just support it, because every rider should be all for more cyclists.
We don't even know what that means! It's so unfair!
Mitchell's not trying to "break down barriers." Why? There ARE NO barriers. I guarantee I can prove that every imagined "barrier" is nothing more than someone's perception.
Knitting seems like it could be fun and useful. vimeo.com/16783518
If any girl or woman thinks "society is telling her" that she isn't allowed to perspire, that's her own twisted psychology at work.
Ladies and girls -- DO WHAT YOU WANT. I trust you will. I trust you won't imagine that "society" is telling you that you can't perspire.
I've known plenty of competitive athlete women. None of them was afraid to sweat. None cared what your so-called "society" was telling them.
Jesus.
Another reason is the male dominated industry's perception of women since their expectation is lower and therefore women will band together where we feel uninvited. But, change is inevitable and I hope for the best.
I don't broad-brush an entire population of anything in any context. You shouldn't either. Mitchell Scott sure as hell knows better if he's ever answered to an editor's reviewing eye and mind.
I think what you mean to say, if trying to be accurate, is that there are some really sexist jerks who ride bikes and/or work in businesses related to bikes. Which isn't surprising -- there have been sexist jerks of BOTH gender in lots of different settings and mini-communities I've encountered in my life. Prejudice and ignorance are part of the human condition. And if you aren't seeing prejudice, ignorance, sexism anywhere but MTB, you are very naive, or aren't looking very closely.
Don't go blaming me for misogyny, bro-heem. That paint won't stick.
The problems you're talking about, and what Mitchell Scott is trying, poorly, to write about -- they are problems of INDIVIDUAL people who see girls and women in counter-productive or corrosive ways.
Any woman or girl who looks outside herself for a reason to ride a bike -- she's looking in the wrong place. Any person who's been cycling seriously for any decent length of time will agree with me on this, I think. If you're riding for someone else, it's not going to stick. It's not going to last.
So the ladies shouldn't be looking to Pinkbike or NSMB or MTBR or ridemonkey or vitalmtb or anywhere else outside themselves for what to think about riding. They should ride (or not ride, if that's their choice) based on what they want as a result of looking within.
I suggest reading Ryan Leech's latest essay as a counterpoint to this crap above by Mitchell Scott.
I guess what I hear you saying is that you're not sexist and you don't appreciate being labeled as such. I am not labeling you, but your self-defense is a little like a white guy calling himself color blind and trying to suggest that we just drop the issue of racism. I am a white girl, and I recognize I am privileged because of the color of my skin and that it is my obligation to help reverse centuries of discrimination and disparities in income/health etc. that run along racial lines. Likewise, an enlightened man would recognize that he still lives in a man's world and that a passive approach won't reverse the sexism in our society.
I don't buy mountain bike magazines, and this is the first time I've ever commented on Pink Bike. Why? Not for a lack of passion for mountain biking, but because there is no reason why I should buy a magazine only to realize that I am clearly NOT its intended audience. A stripper slung over a bike gives me a message that this ad is for men... this magazine is for men... this sport is for men.
And the most impressive thing is watching her evolve from 0 to amazing is this short period of time, i'm really proud to see her shredding the trails with me... of course a few stacks here and there, bruises and scratches, but she is handling pretty well, gets up hops on the bike and keep pushing those pedals...
So for all of you guys out there, wondering should i do it? My answer is YES, do it, get her a decent bike, not a supermarket brand one, something that is light and easy for her to learn, something with a decent suspension that will save her from some nasty troubles, and she will be hooked... Give it some time, you will have to go with her on light rides without your riding dudes in the beginning, so she can have the feel for the bike without the pressure of having to catch up with everyone 2km down the track. Do it and you will have a ridding buddy for life...
And there is more, now she doesn't even complain if i'm watching a MTB movie at night, she just sits there and watch it with me, because she can relate to it...
So thats it, here is my 2 cents... girls deserve their place on the sport for sure!
For the boys: get your girls in to it! It's cool to have your girl shredding with you... and it's even cooler to plan a MTB holiday trip together...
For the girls: if you have the opportunity or desire to give it a go, do it! You will see how much fun it is... with or without a partner you will love it, and if you don't have a partner, i bet you the moment a guy sees you ripping that bike around the trails he will fall in love with you at fist sight. There is nothing sexier than a sports girl...
cheers,
dan
BTW it's hard to write an article about the opposite sex as you're never going to completely be able to understand their wants, needs, desires, emotions, etc. Doesn't mean that this article doesn't have some validity, though. It's just a man's perspective.
True story - her (at bottom of cwn down) 'so you're upset because you were toasted by a girl?'
Me 'if only it were the fist time that this had happened...'
don't get me wrong there are some that are willing to go get dirty and jump off shit all day long and some more fearless than men i know but it's life the event will always be a sausage fest LOL but as the sport grows hopefully ( crossing his fingers ) more women will join in
As for Mitchell.... I think you have to clarify to everyone you live in Nelson but you are not from Nelson. (I've been there a few times and well you are giving the the dudes a bad wrap).
www.vitalmtb.com/videos/member/Dixie-Trix-2012-Women-jumping-fatty-ranchstyle,13325/k-shiz,14
I do think it is harder for them to get into racing because the harsh truth is mens racing is more exciting to watch, so is dominated by men. For the record I love watching womens racing as well, I was/am a big fan of riders like Anne Caro and Missy Giove and current riders like Rachael Atherton.
I think the bottom line here is this is more of a problem with society. They are the only ones that can make the change, If you really love something, you will do it anyway. Just get out and ride ffs.
Its cool that the girls that are into it are, but in general i think you either grow up around biking or undertake it on your own volition
We all know how impossible it is to show someone the light if they arent willing to go there with thier own two feet and dont have motivation
Its such an involved sport with all the $, injuries, and bike maintenance that it is best left to those willing to endure those drawbacks to taste glory
It's definitely North American Culture circa 2012 to look for social reasons why people do or do not. But people are much more individualized than that. People make choices based on what they want.
Cycling doesn't need to "grow" and I'm pretty tired of every pseudo-journalist writing about MTBs saying that we need to "grow the sport." The sport, the activity of cycling, it will do just fine without "growth" and there will always be girls and women who will ride because they WANT to do so.
What a boring article. Might as well ask why more men don't wear brassieres or put on makeup. This article smells and looks like someone trying to be "feminist" and trying to "promote women's interests" while being patronising and having the author think his particular worldview describes everything honestly and accurately. My experience suggests that the author is clueless. So I submit that I'm right and Mitchell Scott and most other MTB "journalists" are wrong.
vimeo.com/42113828
Ladies aren't only hotter if they ride, but they are having just as much fun as the guys. That's the point.
Hey, I wonder why more women don't look into contract killing (hit man) as a line of work. Clearly the mafia is misogynistic in its decisions to hire hit MEN and not hit WOMEN.
Once when I was in 7th grade I tried out for my jr high basketball team. I didn't make the cut. I'm gonna rewrite history to suggest that my 7th grade BB coach was not willing to "progress the sport" by giving me a spot on the team despite my lack of skill. His cutting me was oppressive, and resulted in my not knowing how to empower myself. If he had given me a spot on the team, my pine-riding antics would have empowered lots of other skinny gawky kids who were good at soccer and motocross but lousy at basketball. I'm pretty sure the coach set us back by decades in our search for skinny gawky kid empowerment.
Also, I was never interested in wrestling for my jr high, high school or college teams. Does that mean I'm entitled to now claim that I was forced out of wrestling by prevailing attitudes? Or is it just that I am not interested in wrestling, and therefore never pursued it for that reason?
I was intentionally using straw men, Courtney.
It's satire.
I suggest you go get "empowered" by being part of the herd mentality.
One of the barriers into the mountaibiking universe in my opinion is nature - as the surrounding we exercise the sport in.
To my girlfriend, who is a sporty but not athletic type (no group sport or competition background) riding a mountainbike is fun.
And I do enjoy spending bike-riding time with her. Also because I´d do it anyway but also because it´s great to do the things you love but greater to do it with loved ones. No argues there - be it friends or family, boy-/girlfriends or wifes/husbands.
But since she started the sport only recently with the age of 27 she is really intimitated by roots and rocks on trails.
And I get it. Other than skiing - where falling obviously results in a dampend impact - falling on rocks undoubtely hurts.
And therefor she is scared even on rocky uphills and I don´t have the patience for long to try to persuade her to do it again, find easy trails and so on.
Because I do the sport for 15 years and in this time I gained skill, confidence and musclepower that can´t be transfered that easily to a beginner in an intimitating surrounding.
vimeo.com/35413040
The fault lies with the parents living in Fearville where risktaking (even calculated risk like dh) is frowned upon. So dont expect more women in the sport.
Later on:
The article is quite on the spot. Objectify women is a business deal - nothing more or less - sell your body for dough. Women do it because if you have looks or talents - it is an e co n o m i c a l means of turning talent into money and by nomeans a central thesis of marketable feminism as feminists want you to believe.
Feminism only fosters to fat slob woman to go even slobbier whining endlessly in the process. Selfempowerment is a danger to marketdriven feminism. I am glad this type of female stays of the dh-tracks.
Even the videos are the same shit... I Just watched kranked 4, guys riding with old bikes that today "wouldn`t last a drop" and having way more fun than videos nowadays...
well, this has nothing to do with the thread, but I just feel that this article has a big financial purpose behind it.... peace
seriously girls? get over it. men have always liked women...no matter what they are pictured with.
guns! cars! motorbikes! bmx! mountain bikes! even just on their own. funnily enough THAT is what makes the world go round!
though i dont want to make a sweeping generalisation....some people are gay. and dont like girls.
1) Women don't have as much upper body strength as men so taking some weight off the front as to the rear would be nice.
2) The guys act like pigs (That's usually when I step in and smack the shit out of him)
3) Not enough girl colored bikes, Pink and Baby Blue are her favorite colors not black and grey
Some times you have to ask a girl what she wants and unlike other people that's what I just did
I'ts been my experience that when Girls see that if another girl can do it (because SOME men say we are not strong in the head or body) so often for beginners, these are very important learning experiences. I mostly shred with guys but always love the "Yippee you just hit that 20 footer perfect!" vibe the girls give. We just learn different, get good, then ride with dudes. Let the beginners get into it with the chicks, then they progress. Get it??? BTW, WOMEN'S CLINICS ARE POPULAR BECAUSE WE THINK AND NEED LITTLE COMMANDS TO GET READY TO SET UP, COMMIT AND KILL IT. WE LEARN DIFFERENTLY, WE ARE TOO SMART TO LEARN BY BREAKING BONES, WE GET INSTRUCTION (NOW WE CAN THANKS TO SO MANY GREAT WOMEN LIKE TAMMY, KAT AND LINDSEY AND SO MANY MORE I AM NOT MENTIONING. IF YOU BUILD IT WE WILL COME. Because of this clinic....where with the right verbal instruction, I hit my first real double.
Happy trails, we all love riding, there is just always a bigger picture. Thanks for listening to this free ride girl's side of the story.
vimeo.com/41988048
This is a good thing!
But, the real deal is me being a girl isn't really what's swaying the tempo on them, it's because I'm new to the sport...as is often the case with girls simply because we don't learn about this awesome sport when we're young like the guys do. We're often not exposed to it until we get a chance to hang around with guys who bike...oftentimes the guys who bike happen to be our boyfriends. What about the guys that come into your group that are new to biking? Don't they mess with your ride tempo too?
I guess what I'm saying is, give us girls (and guys new to biking) a chance. We see how great biking is and we want in. We just need the guys who actually know what they're doing to help us with the learning process. Sure, it may mean you'll have to sacrifice a good flow in your ride every once and a while...but isn't it worth it when it means you get to have more people involved in the sport?
that has caused drama but i was 16 so no shit all your 40 year old friends and i dont get along. And i ride pretty serious for a girl how many of you guys have done the goats gully bridge line, with no armour. Im a stripper dont need tan lines!
Sorry about the spelling
You shouldn't be offended, it's called a joke. They are funny.
I'm not attacking you dude. I just think you haven't thought very deeply about what you are saying.
If you mean something other than what i have said straighten me out.