Anne-Caroline Chausson Joins Commencal Bikes

 if i could afford a new bike now, i d go for a commencal too ... they look awesome and their price are great compared to bigger companies , where 25% (if not more) of the money goes straight in their pockets... its also the support of made in europe company which is good too

 @RedBurn: Wait, which Commencals are made in Europe?! My DH Supreme had a big ol' "Made in Taiwan" sticker on the box, which is where I thought all of them are made.

 @delta5: european company i meant

 @delta5: They're designed in Europe (obviously - Andorra) and made in Taiwan. They are definitely a "European company" though, which is all @RedBurn said.

 if you care about the environment to the degree that you do, then why not look into supporting a local (in the usa) company that makes their frames (at least) stateside? just imagine the pollution that the cargo ships produce.

it's really too bad that your and our economy doesn't support things being locally made anymore...

 @makripper: Very true, shipping should be a concern too, but at least at the end of the day it can be recycled. I currently ride a Banshee, so fairly local since I am only a few hours south of the shore. I just like to mix it up a bit and the new V4.2 looks sweet. Plus I am still a Mountain biker who shuttles on occasion so I can't get too high and mighty with the ecological stance, and will have to pick and choose my battles.

 @Jubbylinseed: That's what I thought, which is why "made in europe company" confused me. No big deal, I still like their bikes.

 I love Commencal bikes. That Raw META V4 is in my honest opinion the best looking bike out there. I love their approach to making frames strong instead of jerking off some weight weenies and then blowing them with warranty. People say their issues with bearing bores are gone. But I still think that this stuff about environment is pure sales bollocks... well, I do not blame them for it. No hub has been widened or made metric in making of this marketing statement... call it environmental, call it gluten free and tranz-friendly. I don't care. Sweeeeet bikes. I will soon be ordering a Meta 20" for my daughter

 Commencal is doing some great choices. Still waiting for that CX bike tho.

 @makripper: arrow straight there chap. It is a big shame. It seems insane that we can ship steel halfway around the globe and it be cheaper than on our doorstep. But wages, machinery, standards etc. all take their toll. Although the UK and USA are looking to be heading back that way in the not so distant future. Who knows what the future will hold, Chinese frames from their local supply will soon be the big hit...

 @makripper: Because it's so difficult to go local, even if you ignore price. I tried building my trailbike as Made in USA only. Once I got down to it though, the only decent US made stuff I could get was frame, pedals, post, seat clamp, stem, headset, BB, and chainring. Eventually just became a non-Taiwan/non-China build, and even that failed.

There are no US made forks, full stop. Even MRP is assembled here from foreign parts. Shocks, the ElevenSix wasn't out yet, Craig at Avalanche doesn't seem to want to build anything for an Intense Tracer 2, and MRP wasn't on my radar as I hadn't liked the Elka when I tried one. Saw that my Renthal stem and bars are actually made in TW, but the grips seem to be made in the UK at least. No droppers were made here either then, though I think the 9point8 is Canadian now?

Finally there have been more and more rumors that Intense aluminum frames are going to made overseas soon, and I feel that everyone but the boutique, custom builders are going that direction. Everyone wants carbon, and we flat out can't produce it well here. Heck, Alchemy made such a big stink about being made here and now the rear triangles are from TW.

I'll be taking one of 3 options for bikes for the next few years:

Made local, welded or tig-brazed by me.

Eco friendly and reasonably price, or as much as can be: Commencal.

Support the little guys: Antidote. (Prob bring a stack of parts with when I go visit family next, buy locally, and spend some time riding while there)

You're right, it does suck that we can't produce bikes and parts locally...

 I'm kind of over the false morality of Commencal. They're setup in Andorra to avoid taxes. All legal, but don't talk to me about morality of not producing with carbon - IDGAF.

 @delta5: Have you been also taking an Antidote for just another bike?

 Designed in a tax haven, built on the other side of the world and carbon is bad, that's commencal for you. The bikes look rad, I really dig their new polished finish.

 @powderturns: why would anyone moan about the tax haven thing, commencal have always been based there. Plus since switching to the direct model, it's allowed Max to put out terrific bikes at great prices all over the globe. If I owned the brand I'd do the same! Long may it continue, loving mine!

 @catalanfc: you must admit that being in the freaking mountains with rather good weather also makes it a good place for having a bike company... so not sure about tax haven.

 @cunning-linguist: I'm not moaning and I don't care about carbon or local or tax. Buy the bikes if you like them (for price, components, looks, whatever) - I personally think the other reasons are phony. Or phony for me anyway.

 @powderturns: Have you ever been there? It's mind blowingly beautiful, people are pretty nice, and the bike park (thanks to commencal I know) is one of the best in Europe (I've actually never ridden anything better in France for example). What I mean is that taxes is probably not the only reason why they chose Andorra.

Besides, what do taxes have to do with ecology?

 It's... It's complicated. We have produced Metas and hardtail frames in carbon in 2007-2008. I went to China to visit these factories. It was a shock for me, because the conditions were a disaster. The workers were working on frames with only paper masks. Kids, I say kids, but they are not kids because they are 18 or 20, are working there weaving the carbon fibre. It's dangerous. When you speak with their boss, he says, "in my factory you don't stay too long because your life might only be five years." So they work six months and they change. All the suppliers are asking for cheaper and cheaper carbon frames. When I came back, believe me, I was not comfortable. I said, I will lose sales, but I do not want to produce carbon. We produce aluminium frames, strong frames, it's a game and we are not there to... kill... only because we want to save 300g weight.

m.pinkbike.com/news/From-The-Top-Max-Commencal-interview-2013.html

No words about environment

 @LuisCR: what kind of masks and gear do they use for smelting/producing aluminum tubing and welding aluminium? i'd imagine its just as nasty.

 @makripper: based on his words, I guess he found a properly alu Factory. Anyway I don't care too much. pasted the quote only to be accurate.

 @makripper: it's the globalization man... the f*cking globalization

 Commencal also has Rob Warner!

 @LuisCR: I like the idea of working with aluminium as it's from my point of view a non sense to pay 6 times the price of an aluminium frame to save 300gr, but, the carbon fiber weaving things sounds exaggerated. Everyone is working with Prepreg right now. They are cut in small pieces by CNC router and the workers have to put them around eps core and/or in a form mold. There is no fiber in the air and very minor solvent emission. The critical process is more during the polishing stage. But, aluminium polishing + phosphate treatment before painting is at least as bad as carbon powder in the air.

 The truth is, if you want a more ethical choice then you buy stuff made in the West because we have higher workplace quality and environmental standards. Give a 16 year old kid a job without body or eye protection and you can end up in FB/Twitter/ Insta sooner than you think. And Facebook activist trolls masturbate 3 times a day to the thought of reading such News. As simple as that.

So buy local stuff and Be prepared to pay more. As to stuff made in China well you have no fricking clue how it is made no matter the material. If they dump chemical sht straight to the river then you can have your moral discussion about carbon vs alu up your high arse. If someone buys a 25$ carbon "replica" of Enve seatpost then

So maybe Commencal or Spec do it right. I know one thing, if someone buys sht from Aliexpress then he is a fkng inconsiderate a*shole. If he buys a "replica" of Enve seatpost for 30$ and it gets broken and ends up in his arse then he fkng deserves it. He can even get ass cancer from the carbon shards that got stuck in it. He still deserve it and I'm not sorry for him carrying colostomy bad. f*ck him

 @WAKIdesigns: can I sell you your next steel UK hand made frame then? :-)

 @cunning-linguist: No I'll get @mad3mechanic to make one for me. Custom made to perfectly match my needs and riding style hahaha.

eh no... fk no... Give me someone who can weld custom aluminium one and I'll buy it in coming 3 years. I had one steel frame and I will not get another one. Ever. I need a bike that can stand outside in the rain for 7 hours a day.

 @WAKIdesigns: Shh, I need a REAL reason for the wife! I just think they're beautiful frames, and love that they're made 40min from babcia's house. If I were building and selling frames, I'd still get one.

 @catalanfc: ...when was polished alum new? 15 years ago maybe

 @ninesix: longer than that, my first proper MTB was Marin Nail Trail in polished Alu. Mmmmmm

 @delta5: so your bab-tcha lives 20 min closer than my parents...
@ninesix - it's no polish - It's RAWwwwww!

 @ninesix: ...never said they invented polished aluminium mate, but if you look really hard you'll notice the Meta has got a different finish compare to last year

 @Aikow: My Banshee Rune frame has a "Made in Taiwan" sticker. I was fairly disappointed, I thought it was handmade in Canada?.

 @powderturns: The Andorra thing is neither here nor there for me, but the carbon thing is silly marketing BS. They make super affordable bikes, and there is nothing wrong with that, Affordability means alu frames, because carbon is expensive. I can appreciate that, making bikes affordable needs to be more of a priority. They are just using a hippy talking point about carbon to make people like them.

 @ClaytonMarkin: found the doukhabor, Kak dela lol

 @zoobab2: mayb the made in taiwan sticker is handmade in canada?

 One of the few riders where the ambassador tile is a perfect fit

 She is the greatest mountain biker of all time...by far!!

 i knew her before you were born

 I came across this video today comparing the suspension kinematics of a Meta V4 with a Process 153. The main difference seems to be the main pivot placement relative to the chainring, which is the main factor that affects pedal bob. The Commencal should pedal better. I'd think that single ring drivetrains would make it easier to design a single pivot bike that pedals well across all gears, without having to resort to a fancy linkage design. youtube.com/watch?v=ZmjpC0CgCVs

 @DMal: Ridden both bikes in the same day, Honestly they felt like they pedalled nearly the same. Both handle the trail really well I felt the 153 was a tiny more stable at really fast speeds but that may also be because at the time my main rig was a 111 so everything just felt a little more at home for me.

 @DMal: last. straigtforward linkage sp

 I think Kona has been getting really good reviews since they stopped using magic links and such. I don't think I've seen a negative review on the process. The main complaint being weight, which COMMENCAL gets hit for too.

 Racers come and go. World champions fall into obscurity. While an ambassador might not "win" they hold way more brand value IMO because they're not 1 dimensional, not chasing something fleeting. They're really living it, doing it, sharing it, and enjoying it. that enthusiasm sells and is tangible.

 @bubbrubb: I think the opposite is normally the case as a racer demonstrates performance. Most ambassadors are just grass roots supported riders not good enough for a proper deal.

This doesn't apply to acc though, a legend is a great ambassador in all senses of the word

 living legend.

 @lepak1corner: indeed

 Not sure why I never got notified of this, but BACK FROM THE DEAD!

You're correct, just because it's made in Taiwan doesn't mean it's crap. I love my made in TW Commencal Supreme DH, Fox 40/36/DHX/Van RC, Renthal bars/stem, RockShox Revelation, etc.

I actually answered your point. Renthal grips get a pass because they're made in a first-world country where my money contributes to a higher quality of life, higher environmental and safety standards, and better supply chain control. I would have loved to buy American. Too bad Oury and ESI aren't comfortable, and Lizard Skins and ODI shred my hands even with gloves on, and I hate lock on grips. So what other option do I have? Seriously. Point me at a US-made non-lock on grip that I haven't mentioned, and I'll go find it. If it's good, I'll happily put it on all my bikes.

My old crapcan Jeep Wrangler is mostly made in the USA. Ditto my wife's slightly newer one. My "fun" car is Japanese because it's a flat out higher quality product than anything American in its class for its era. Electronics, I don't have much of a choice, do I? I'm a realist who does the best he can, not an idealist who will live in a cave to "SUPPORT 'MURICAN!"

Don't assume that I don't research manufacturers of products I purchase regardless of where they're made. Don't feed me that "jingoistic" bullshit. My parents came from Poland a year before I was born, it's my first language. I have family in the old country, the UK, France, and Canada. I'm a product of the global economy.

I don't like it because it's purely about profit with zero social responsibility. Did the US move carbon manufacturing to China because it was better quality? No, we did it because they'll work for far lower wages and they didn't have silly little rules about health and safety and responsibly managing waste. (Thankfully that's changing now, however slowly) Did the prices drop? Nope. A top flight carbon mtb in 2000 would have cost ~$4k in 2017 US dollars. That's cost of entry these days. Quality of bikes is better, but that cost should be offset by greater supply and streamlined manufacturing.

Now, say handlebars, would I rather pad the pockets of SRAM running for profits uber alles? Or should I give my hard earned money to Renthal (mistakenly) thinking a greater percentage of my dollar is going into the pockets of the employees? Or maybe next go-around I'll give it to Hope because I know they're expanding local production which helps their local community? Tell you what, you open a manufacturing facility local to me, and I'll be your brand evangelist, hanging every damn part you make on my bikes, and pay full price to boot. Because then the tax I pay on those parts, and the taxes you pay, and wages you pay, all go towards improving the road in front of my house, the quality of trails around here, the quality of my kid's schooling, etc.

At the end of it all, while I worry about some poor Chinese kid staring at a grip mold all day, I need to worry about what happens at home first, then county, then state, then country, then world. I'm not perfect, I make mistakes, but I'm doing what I can to try to make the world a better place. Globalisation gives us fun gadgets and lets us ignore consequences because it's not happening in my backyard. Localisation is hard, and can be inconvenient, but makes our communities stronger and better.

 agreed

 She would absolute smoke him.

 Not worth the effort

 @fartymarty: and it would be awsome.

 ACC has been with Ibis since 2011, that's 6 years. I don't know how often you change socks, but I tend to change mine quite a bit more often...

 @eldsvada: Point taken. ACC was not the right rider with which to bring up this issue. It seems to apply more to the current UCI DH pro's. I had forgotten that she won Gold at BMX in the Beijing Olympics. She is such talented and hard working rider.