Ask PB - Single Chainring with a No-Clutch Rear Derailleur and Hand Pain On Long Descents

 My girls hand is always in the shape of a C

 hand pain will go away when you switch to metric sized grips.

 Throw some no handers and you won't get arm pump!

 Dear Hand Pain man - There is some good advice here, but if it's a serious amount of pain, go see a physiotherapist. I used to get really bad hand pain and everybody would chime in with suggestions, most of them "You just need to ride more". Physiotherapist pointed out I had weirdly flexible hands that tended to collapse on themselves and cut off the blood flow. She suggested some weird hand strengthening exercises (folding my thumb into my palm using exercise clay) and it made a huge difference. It might be set up. It might be conditioning. It also might be some weird physical quirk that you have and only a professional is going to be able to help.

 Dropping a chain once a week is acceptable? Wow. Seeing as there are products that keep it from virtually EVER happening, this is such a bizarre position. What else would you put up with falling off your bike just once a week? Your saddle? Pedals?

Hope it doesn't fall off, you don't notice, and you grab some pedals out of a corner. Your nuts deserve better.

 Wider bars have helped my hand pain and trigger finger. If you're already running wide bars, then probs just cut off ur hands and ride with hooks yar

 Hand pain guy - Be balanced over your pedals so you are only steering and not pushing or pulling on the bar from being too far forward or back. A bunch of us took some DH training at Whistler from Shaums March. This was one of his first lessons. He asked us if our hands hurt after a day in the park. He said if you're pushing or pulling on the bar then you're not centred and you're using you're gripping too hard to keep you on the bike and you get the arm pump. So now if I feel I'm putting a bit too much pressure on the bars, I shift my weight so I don't need to grip as hard. Dirt Merchant all day and no need to shake out the hands. Being balanced over the pedals has many other benefits too. Thank Shaums! Now if only I could grow some so I can do Crabapple........

 All the reviews on components on this site, and the first we hear about the sram clutch deterioration is just now... wow. THANKS PINKBIKE

 I'm surprised PB didn't mention lever reach. @scottneilson24 See those knobs on most brakes? That's to bring the lever inward to help from overextending your hand. This leads to overextending the muscles and causes fade on long descents. Bring those levers as close in towards the bar as you feel comfortable with and still have the power you need. You'll find your hands feel less fatigued. Most people run them at the default and now that I've worked on this it's so far away I can't even comprehend it. My friends think I'm crazy but I find it really helps on a long and rocky descent and rarely ever get arm pump.

 I've been riding a 1x setup on an unclutched Shimano SLX 9 speed derailleur for nearly two years and very rarely drop a chain. Recently went from a 30t to a 28t narrow wide on the front and it still works like a charm. A tech at Dunbar tried to convince me I couldn't run 1x without a clutch derailleur and I just laughed.

 Hand pain guy- get a better fork. Switching from a fork that was particularly sticky to a nice, smooth fork with less HSC helped dramatically reduce my hand pain. I've switched very little else, but having a better fork (one that works properly!) completely eradicated hand pain the way no grips or bars could.

 Not bashing the guy asking about the 1x without a clutch. However, I have heard many younger riders and mechanics say you can't ride 1x with out a clutch. How do they think Slalom/4X/DH riders have been riding 1x for the last 20+ years? Bikes were a bit noisier and you needed some type of a guide. But it works just fine.

 Running clutchless is not a problem what so ever. I used to ride FR/DH with a Shimano Sora and Tiagra for 4 years and just a front mech to keep the chain from spilling out. Worked like a charm, did not have a single chain drop. Noise was handled by an old inner tube on the chainstay. For my latest bike, I made myself a carbon fiber chain guide, weighing complete at 100g for 12,40€, so this can also be an option for you, plus it's great fun making it
On hand paint, powerball and a squeeze ring

 Sorry... couldn't resist!

www.pinkbike.com/photo/13453274

 The biggest problem with riding without a clutch is not chain retention, but noise. Event with clutch, the bike can be noisy, because clutch wears with time. On shimano you can tweak clutch tension, but it affects suspension sensitivity in a negative way. So in my opinion there is still nothing better then a chain tensioner, but this is just an opinion

 As for the handpain, which finger do you use for braking? It seems like quite a few people use the index finger for braking and if you shift the master lever assy inboard as recommended in the article, it is your only choice. But by using the index finger for braking, you're effectively narrowing your grip. Chances are you compensate by gripping harder. Instead use your middle finger for braking so that the index finger can stay on the handlebar. I think it works better. I got the idea from Dirt Mag (UK) editor Steve Jones in one of his articles, adopted it and never looked back. To make it work you have to go against some other advices given here though. You need the lever a bit more outboard so that your middle finger can reach it properly. Moreover you'll want to leave reach pretty far so that when you apply the brake, your index finger doesn't get stuck between grip and leverblade.

 Even with spades for hands I prefer thin soft grips to loosely/comfortably wrap my hand around and run very high brake lever position. Yoann barreli style. i get no hand fatigue on long descents compared to bigger grips and low brake levers my hands would ache. I think grips and lever position are the keys to no hand fatigue.

 Lizard Skins North Shore grips are great for reducing vibration at a fifth of the cost of carbon bars, well worth a try, they helped me keep riding through tennis elbow problems last year.

 The rebound has a lot to do in our hands, if the front is not runnning smooth it makes us grab it harder.My pain stopped when i changed my grips for biggest ones, fastest rebound,a bit less psi at my tires,closest breakpads and more relaxed body position.

 In one of Guy Martins books he talks about how he used to get arm pump but now does a strange exercise before he races and doesn't get it at all any more. He has a short piece of broom handle about shoulder width long which has a piece of string tied round the middle, tied to the other end of the string is a house brick, you hold the ends of the broom handle with your arms held out in front of you then rotate the handle in your hands to wind the string up, when the brick reaches the handle you rotate the handle in the opposite direction to lower the brick back down to the ground. I think he says he does this about 10 times before each race and never has an issue. Hopefully that makes some sense to someone :-)

 I started using one of those hand strengtheners climbers are fond of and found it helped. I mainly use it over the winter to condition them for the upcoming season, but any time's a good time to start. This combined with the advise given above and thankfully the claw is a thing of the past for me.

 I switched to Ergon grips on all my bikes about 5 years ago + it got rid of my hand pain and numbness. When going down hill I'm usually pushing down and out with my palms. Different things work for different people.

 Just a narrowwide worked well for me. As for hands, I have only hit Silver Star a few times and my hands were screwed after a few days. I rode through the pain stupidly and I think it led to a ganglion in my finger next to the pinky on the left, and it flares up when I do a lot of hand gripping/weight lifting type stuff, and this is years later. DON"T RIDE THROUGH THE PAIN.

 I don't know why so many people think backwards. Thicker grips reduce cramps. Three simple reasons: 1. A thicker grip places your fingers around the grip in less of a C shape as talked about above. 2. A thicker grip forces you to ride with a more relaxed grip. 3. A thicker grip has more padding.

 Best answer to hand pain was, "throw more no handers!" Second was " Stop braking" but you could try a page out of Batty's last vid and try middle finger braking. The grip change should take some pressure off the heal of your palm in those death grip situations, but getting comfortable with that grip might take some time.

 One thing: The older Shimano Rear Derailleurs will actually make contact with the larger range Cogs. I never had a chain drop issue with a Wolf Tooth Narrow Wide on trail riding - but when I put a wider range 11-40t cassette on the back, the arm where the cable mounts actually contacted the big cogs - even the 36t when moved inboard. Mine was the RD-M780 so it may keep the chain on, but it may not clear the cassette.

 Oury! That's the grip that helps me as an arthritic stiff handed older rider. They cost less and last for years. Fatter, soft rubber helps get grip with less squeeze takes away the harsh ride that the clamp on type give to your hands and wrists. Going into third season with same pair.

 Interesting the point about clutch tension in early type2 mechs fading, I always thought my X0 mech felt like it had no more cage tension than a non clutch equipped Shimano mech

 You can re-tension the clutch on those early type 2 SRAM mechs - that large plastic circular cover hides a Torx bolt which can be tightened..... On the newer 2.1 versions, however, this is not possible.

 handlebar rotation is key! The more upright the sweep is, the more pressure is on the outside of your hands. I try and set mine to be flat against my palms while in the standing "ready" position on all my bikes (XC and AM).

 As I just said in Shimano's STEC forum, the things people tell themselves to over look the inherently bad engineering it represents. 1x11 with a NW ring and clutch is supposed to eliminate dropped chains. Here you are saying dropping a chain once a week is ok. My 2x10 XT never drops the chain. If it did even once the bike would be on the stand for a look see. Once a week is completely unacceptable. Its also completely unacceptable to tell the owners of new 1x11 bikes that the chain dropping off the big cogs if you back pedal or cantilever is normal, to be expected and accepted with 1x11. These things are accepted only because they are unavoidable with 1x11 and that is just bullshit. A fool and their money are soon parted. No where is that more applicable than paying a premium for 1x11 and then accepting these inherent flaws as acceptable normal operating characteristics. My 2x10 works fine but when its time to rebuild it I'll be going 2x9 for a more durable and robust system with wider spacing on the cassette that suits our terrain out here better.

 For hand pain all you have to do is inflate your grips! It always works, but just buy extra tubes!

 Remembering to ride with your elbows bent is prob one of the most helpful tips to relieve hand pain.

 wide carbon bars..., i have had nerve issues, tendon issues, you name it..., carbon bars and good grips (ESI or Ergon) make all the difference.

 Ive been getting thumb pain a lot, I dont deathgrip at all. I have a feeling its the bar angle which is putting too much weight on the thumbs and not enough on the palms.

 In regards to hand pain;
I went to a high quality carbon fiber bar like the Easton Havoc. I noticed an immediate difference.
The bar is stiffer but good carbon fiber is also more shock absorbing.

 Death grip was a huge issue for me last season. New bike this season and after first day, seems to have gone away. Awful suspension setup last season perhaps?

 Get yourself a powerball to strengthen your grip for arm pump relief.

 raise your bar height and run your levers higher...also drop your heals more

 @richardcunningham : thanks for the write up on 1x systems it was very well done..informative and helpful

 Just Brake like Emily Batty- Middle finger!

 "I have a brand new Shimano XT Shadow rear derailleur". I'm confused. Doesn't 'shadow' mean Shimano clutch system?

 You want the hand pain to stop ? Ride smoother lol in fact, ir changes nothing!!

 What grips are those in the bottom picture?? I like that pattern.

 A $175 bar is a drop in the bucket compared to college expenses

 Get a softer handle bar. I recommend a carbon ENVE bar they have a nice flex to the bar.

 Ergon grips and no more hand pain.