Ask Pinkbike: Remedy or Slash, Large frame - short stem, Should I Cut My DH Bar?
Here at Pinkbike we get inundated with all kinds of questions, ranging from the basic "Can I have stickers" to more in-depth, soul searching types of queries like if you should pop the question or what to name your first child. Ask Pinkbike is an occasional column where we'll be hand picking and answering questions that have been keeping readers up at night, although we'll likely steer clear of those last two and keep it more tech oriented.
Add Travel to My Trek Remedy, or Buy a Slash?
Question: Pinkbike user, TheRoncolaRocket, asked this question in the All-Mountain, Enduro and Cross-Country forum: I've just bought a Trek Remedy 7 and am starting to become interested in doing some enduro racing in the future. I think that I'd new more travel up front, though, and that's where I can't make up my mind... Should I upgrade my Remedy with a 160mm travel RockShox Pike, or should I just but a Slash 7 instead? I work at a local shop, so cost isn't an issue as both options will end up costing about the same, but I don't know what would be best. I'm slightly worried that the Remedy's 140mm of travel isn't going to be enough when going all-out on a descent, but I'm also concerned that the 160mm Slash is going to be overkill and end up slowing me down everywhere else. I live in Stockhom, and the closest mountains are about 400km away, and I only weigh around 70kg with gear.
 | I think that the most important thing to keep in mind is how much time you're going to spend either racing the bike or be on terrain that calls for 160mm of travel, especially if you live 400km away from any serious mountains. If you're answer to that is to say that it might be a few weekends a year, with the rest of your time spent on tamer local terrain and just having fun, it's pretty clear to me that you should stick with the Remedy. I've spent loads of time on every Remedy that Trek has ever made, as well as every Slash platform, and can vouch for the shorter travel bike's abilities - you'll find that it's just as fast in most places, and also takes less effort to keep going at a good clip on smoother trails. The 160mm travel Slash is a great bike (stay tuned for a review of the Slash 9.8 this coming Monday, by the way) but it wouldn't be my only bike if I lived as far away from the mountains as you do. - Mike Levy |
The Slash is easier to ride fast when things get really rough, but it wouldn't be my first choice if I didn't have some serious terrain close by.
Can I Use a Short Stem to Make a Large-Size Frame Fit Me?
Question: Watchknut asks in the All-Mountain and Cross-Country Forum: I bought a 2010 Ellsworth Epiphany. The seller said it was a size medium, but low and behold, it is a size large. Should I resell, and look for another bike, or should I get shorter stem and try it out? My old bike was a Yeti Pro Fro 17-inch, with a 22-inch top tube and a 110-millimeter mm stem. I loved the way it fit and rode. I have no clue if it was sized correctly, but it worked for me. The Ellsworth has a longer, 23.5-inch top tube and with the current 90-millimeter stem, the reach is roughly the same as with my old Yeti. I can further shorten the reach by swapping out stems. With the stand-over height being the same on all Ellsworth Epiphany frames, does it make sense to try out a new stem, or I am wasting time?
| Your question is poignant because it addresses a trend that made sense a few years earlier, but may not be such a good idea today. After the long-stem, narrow-bar era collapsed and rank and file riders began to demand short stems and wider handlebars, bike makers responded by bolting short stems and wide bars to their existing bikes. It was a marketing move that did not take into consideration that the switch effectively shortened the reach of every bike in their ranges by one or two frame sizes. In response, hard core riders began to buy up one size, using top tube and reach measurements, instead of traditional sizing, to determine their correct fits. The reason for this sidebar intro is to point out that bike makers have addressed that oversight. Today, top tubes are lengthened to adjust for the switch to shorter stems and slacker head angles. Unfortunately, "buying up" became so fashionable that many riders are foolishly buying bikes that are way too big for them. My advice is to ignore posted sizing and purchase according to the bike's reach as it pertains to your cockpit preferences. That said, your situation is legitimate. Considering that the stand-over height is the same, you could get away with using a shorter stem to compensate for the Ellsworth's longer top tube. Adding an inch and a half (38mm) to the top tube of a bike, however, may create too much of a rearward weight shift to ensure that your new bike will handle well. Noting that you liked the way your Yeti handled with its 22-inch top tube and 110-millimeter stem, you would need a 70-millimeter stem to match the reaches of the two bikes. So far, so good, because most PB riders are using 50-millimeter stems, which is what I recommend for riders who prefer technical riding over climbing. The fly in the ointment, though, is that the head tube height (stack) of your large frame may be too tall for you, which would take too much weight off the front tire and cause the bike to push in the corners. The large-sized Epiphany's head tube is stated at 5.12 inches, and 4.75 inches for the small and medium frames. That is the thickness of two headset spacers. The dimensions of your previous bike suggest that you are not tall enough to overcome excessive stack height, If the stack of your Yeti and Ellsworth are similar, I'd say go for it - and I'd recommend trying a 50mm stem and a slightly wider handlebar. If the stack on the large frame is too high and it is not possible to address that issue by using a flat or a low-rise handlebar, I would suggest selling the frame and searching for a better match. - RC |
In the large-size, the new, 27.5-inch wheel Ellsworth Epiphany Enduro SST has the same top tube length as Watchknut's frame, and it features the shorter stem that he proposes to get a proper fit. Good news all 'round.
780 vs. 760mm Handlebar Width
Question: PB user thebaron38 asked the following question in the Downhill forum: I'm currently running 780mm width bars and was wondering if I drop to 760mm would there be much difference in feel.
| Bar width is a topic that can stir up endless debates, mainly because every rider has their own 'perfect' width. Riding style and your physical proportions are both factors in determining the ideal handlebar dimensions, and while I'm a firm believer that wide bars are better for all riding disciplines, I also realize that at 5'11" my preferred bar width isn't going to work as well for someone who barely cracks the 5' mark. The 20mm difference between 780 and 760mm bars may not seem like much, but I'd be willing to bet you'll notice it immediately. A simple way to try out a shorter length is to slide your grips in 20mm (this is easiest with lock-ons that have an opening at both ends), along with your brakes and shifters. Richard Cunningham covered this topic quite well all the way back in 2011. Head out for a spin around the block, and see if you like the quicker steering and slightly different body position that comes with the reduced width. 760mm is still fairly wide, so I don't think you'll find the bars will make your bike's handling too twitchy or unfamiliar feeling, but whether the change feels better or worse will be up to you. - Mike Kazimer |
Most manufacturers print gradient marks on their handlebars to make trimming them an easy process.
Have some unresolved tech questions? Jump in the Pinkbike Forum and we'll look to answer it for next time.
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Recently at Outerbike, and they Ellsworth booth was full of bikes the entire time. You had to beg, bribe or steal a rid on a SB6, Nomad, etc. No idea how they are still in business...
No shit Sherlock! :-)
Short stem, wide bar, long reach can be easily over driven though. The closer the grips get to the axis of the steerer, in a way that the wheel trail - steerer - grips "triangle" gets shallower, the less stable things get because when you apply force by both hands, you get less tow. While riding straight at speed the leverage of wide bars provides no problem with keeping the wheel pointing ahead, as soon as you apply force to turn the bars, particularly at tighter corners, the loss of wheel direction gets more dramatic. If a bike has plenty of intrinsic stability due to factors like wheel inertia, head angle, bb drop, wheelbase, then it may be a good thing, but a bike more nimble by nature, needs a longer stem/bar sweep combo. Bar sweep is important, because it determines how we stand on our bike and apply force to the bars.
I recently switched to a Yeti SB66c (which is similar to the Slash I think) and it's MUCH more stable in the fast and rough, but nowhere near as quick and playful as the Remedy. It's a lot harder to clean technical climbs on the Yeti, but conversely, a lot harder to track a straight line on the Remedy through the rough descents.
I think putting a Pike and burlier shock on a Remedy is a great step in the right direction.
good short stem - affordable good for AM bikes - lightweight
Wide bar + short stem OR narrower bar + longer stem - can both give similar ride position while altering other handling characteristics; steering being a big one.
This is assuming you've got your saddle where you like it. You can get similar results adjusting the saddle fore and aft but personally I don't think the saddle should be moved according to 'fit' and more where you feel you get the best pedalling and to alter the effective seat tube angle - then use the stem and bars to adjust ride position and fit.