Jon Cancellier has managed the BlackBox Program for the past 7 seasons. This includes choosing the athletes, working with them on custom projects, as well as being at the races to make sure that they have everything they need. An athlete on the SRAM BlackBox Program has access to all the engineering horsepower that we have to offer and Jon is the link between racer and company. Earlier this year he travelled to Finale Ligure, Italy with 2013 Enduro World Series Champion Jerome Clementz to test wheels.
We asked Jon some questions about the test, and what it meant for Jerome as he put in his first miles on SRAM wheels.
Explain the test with Jerome.
JC: The goal of the test was to give Jerome time on three models of SRAM wheels and let him evaluate the benefits of each. We chose one track and had him ride it twice for each set of wheels. The tires, tire pressure and rotors were carried over each run to eliminate as many variables as possible. While the runs were not timed, Jerome tried to carry the same pace each run to keep his feedback similar.
How often does a test like this happen?
JC: We tend to test products with athletes at the beginning of the year to set baselines for the upcoming season. If we are working on something new that we are looking to get athlete feedback on, it can happen as soon as we have a ridable prototype. As wheels are a relatively new area for SRAM as well as the BlackBox Program, this is only the second time we have conducted this kind of wheel test with an athlete. The first was with Nico Vouilloz last year. As we create new wheels or have new ideas we want to test, I see this being a very valuable tool for our development process.
What can a test like this potentially yield for both the athlete and SRAM?
JC: Testing in this way allows the wheels to be broken down to their unique parts, each being a different variable. We can then pick apart the results and see which variable created the feeling the rider is after. For Jerome, he was able to feel the differences between rim width, rim material as well as spoke thickness. This way he can feel how one variable can affect the ride and we as a company can learn more about how all the wheel components add up as we strive to make the fastest wheels.
What did Jerome learn during the test?
JC: Jerome discovered all three wheels to be winners. He found that all three offered him such strong unique characteristics that he couldn't put one ahead of the others. He was able to conclude that the hugely varying terrain of the EWS will allow each of these wheel's characteristics to shine at key races throughout the season. Knowing that he has three wheels that he can confidently choose between will give him a competitive advantage every weekend as he looks to regain the Enduro World Series title.
So based on that conclusion, what will Jerome’s wheel choice strategy be?
JC: He will choose the wheel that best suits the conditions and terrain he is faced with on a certain weekend. For example, he found the wider rim of the Rail 50 to add more volume to the tire, so this might be his first choice on a weekend where the terrain is very rough. Jerome found the carbon rim on Roam 60 to be very responsive. This is especially beneficial for tracks that demand quick acceleration, like those found at last year’s EWS round in Scotland. Roam 50 offered him a strong balance of all of these variables and will be a great option most weekends of the year.
Beyond wheels, did you learn anything else?
JC: As you would expect from an Enduro World Series Champion, Jerome is meticulous about his setup and is very in tune with what he expects from his bike. He can feel very small changes in product that can mean big differences for both him on the bike and for us as we develop our wheels.
SRAM ( www.sram.com, @SramMedia )
Hate on haters
interweb users are just gettin a lil more sophisticated these days, including pinkbike.
nobody likes an ad dressed up to look like a real article or test.
an ad is an ad. . there is nothing wrong with ads, but people ain't so dumb anymore to think that an ad dressed up to look like an article is "real".
its a great ad, the mini interview in that ad was cool too, love the pics also.
but its still an ad dressed up to look like a story or an article.
debate on debaters.
Anyone who believes it is PB generated content and expects it to be an unbiased review of the product probably also puts their shoes on the wrong feet most mornings.
It is listed as a press release right on the front page? Not sure what people are expecting here.
It was indeed a test and it would have happened whether there were cameras rolling or not. Sram decided it would be cool to make a press release/story out of the test sessions to bring the product and athlete to life a bit and shed a little light into how a top athlete goes about testing and selecting products for top level competition.
Would people have been more happy if Sram just wrote a pres release that said "JC will be riding all three wheels at various events"
Or can people just enjoy the fact that they tossed in some rad riding footage and a little info on the process that goes into testing to make the whole things a bit more interesting?
How is it any different from the recent brand video's like the one's put out by Yeti, Santa Cruz, Trek, etc ??? they are all marketing driven but just choose to breathe a little creative light into the process.
they set everyone up for expecting something more. Fool me once and all that...
debate on. its healthy.
Was the giant a*shole that is the internet expecting them to bash a product or call one far superior? Would that have made people happy so they could have something to justify their internet hatred?
But since they didn't get that they just shift focus and hate on the video because the video didn't give them anything to hate on...
And where does anyone get "Product Review" out of a video clearly marked "Press Release"
People blindly watched a video without reading the heading and then got all mad that it wasn't what they wanted it to be. It is exactly what it is clearly stated to be... a PRESS RELEASE
Press realease means advertising not product review
Truth and reason are not tolerated by the trolls... We will probably both be banned for introducing logic
Hey Marketing separtments out there! Get your sht together show us something... Advertaining!
I give you an idea for a new way to push and showcase your products: pay Pinkbike for a database and search engine in Trailforks that will show which KOMs are made on which products, so if someone looks at best lap times in SoCal or Whistler sees that most of them are done by riders on your products, you will get some good credibility! Hey - next time you make such project, get those test sessions and upload them to trailforks, so that people can race against Jerome on your wheels, drivtrain, brakes or fork. A totaly New ground for you! Take it!
Whereas the WTB segment put up a week or two back has me seriously considering using at the very least their rims, this SRAM segment i found to be a huge turn off and as a result probably won't be considering their products.
So you wouldn't buy something solely because a brand made a press release in form of a video to introduce a new rider and some of their impressions on the product? If that's the case I guess there's not too much out there you would buy then huh? Unless you got a personal Q&A session first of course.
A press release is always going to be an advertisement. When your local promoter puts a press release on PB about a race that's an advertisement for you to enter. If they in use a helmet can or promo vid it's and advertisment to get people to enter. Why are you guys so bent out of shape that a press release video was an ad??? What did you think it would be?? Are you all that sensitive and/or naive ???
This press release, which seemed like it was going to offer critical insight into their product line, instead came across as pretty obnoxious and didn't give me any reason to be interested in their product. That's all.
Your idea just blew my mind away! I would love to be able to do that! I mean just imagine having that info like that, great idea!
gnarly terrain(as mentioned), the Roam 60 for everything else.......and mentioned the Roam 50 being great all around so we(the consumers) buy the bread and butter version.
www.cbc.ca/player/News/ID/2652041912
going native?
full article here........
www.cbc.ca/news/world/ads-masquerading-as-journalism-the-slippery-slope-of-branded-content-1.2943794
hmmmmmm.
Roam are 21 mm inner width, Rail 23 mm.
New DT M 1700 Two are 22.5 (intended use, AM/ enduro). DT stated them as wide rims, which RC called "pathetic". www.pinkbike.com/news/bmc-speedfox-sf02-xt-review-2015.html
New DT E 1700 Two are 25 mm (intendes use hard enduro). enduro-mtb.com/en/first-look-dt-swiss-presents-3-new-1700-spline-two-wheelsets
Mavic crossmax enduro : 21 mm front, 19 rear (enduro race).
Mavic crossmax XL: 23mm (enduro hard).
It seems that despite PB and small companies pushing, the big players doesn't jump in the "larger is better" rim bandwagon.
My question is : why ?
Maybe somebody from these companies can give us a guess ?
These rims had 2.4 Highroller/Ardent on them. Looked like the edge knobs would never touch ground (they may when you ride like JC in the vid - and that's why downhiller like narrow rims). I am too slow for such narrow rims. I chose WTB i25, just fine for me.
I get quite well the business POV of wide vs narrow.
What I want to know before spending 1 K$ in a pair of wide rims wheels is : does this really change something in terms of physics, not perception, which is generally biased when you spend this amount of money in something.
Historical wheel companies like Mavic, DT, etc... have a very large background in testing and very well equiped facilities. I read a lot of technical review, both in german and french, studying impact of different pressure on ground patch, etc...
Until now, I read nothing technically satisfying (I mean reproductible demonstration based on quantification of phenomenon and results) about why widder is better.
Syntace claim they did a lot of tests, but the only think you can find on their site is a hand draw illustration, which is obviously false from a static (not the same tire dimension) and dynamical (not the same constraints applied on each tire) point.
From Ibis, Derby, Enve, etc..., nothing except the claim that "wider is better".
And most of arguments pro or con wide rims can be turned over, e.g:
"you can run the same amount of pressure, giving you a larger ground patch (so more traction)" yes but more volume at given pressure
= more compressibility (like HV air shocks) = more tire deformation (less pressure ramp-up)
= more rim pinching, even without speaking of hookless rims and tread patterns that doesn't fit wide rims (check Jason Moeschler interview about rims and tire standard).
So more pressure ? but then less tire deformation and patch = less traction, so for which advantage given more weight ?
Tires makers are the first concerned since a good way to go seems to design tires specifically for wide rims. Have you heard something about that ? Me, nothing.
So all that assertions about wider is better needs to be validated and weighted and this can only be done trough serious testing and quantification. I know Mavic, DT, Schwalbe, Hutchinson, Michelin at least did this kind of job for their tires and wheels, so I suppose that if they are reluctant to go farther with wider rims, their can be a serious (I mean scientificaly based) reason.
But they didn't communicate over this topic.
To this point I saw nothing looking like serious testing from Enve, Ibis, Derby, Syntace...
And they communicate a lot over this topic.
So from my point of view and from available documentation, for now the good move is not to move.
So, from this point, mavic, DT, easton, etc... don't produce wide rims.
The maximum performance gain came from running the EX729s at a mid-low pressure. Tire stability, traction and deflection were all improved in all circumstances, and I noticed no difference in rolling resistance.
Tire pressures were: Normal pressure - 28PSI front, 34 PSI rear. Low pressure: 20PSI front, 26PSI rear.
However, I also believe that there rarely is a "bad product" - its just a matter of finding out best suited environment/conditions/terrain/ride style/set up, etc. Or... what it's actually designed for.
and of course, they will be better than the ones they're replacing
:-) £ $
you see that nasty nitrate and gluten laced hoogie he was chowing down on?
that shit will slow ya down fo sho!
dirtmountainbike.com/features/carbon-mtb-wheels-do-you-need-them.html#vwVe7YJlOovQyRuy.97
Not the best case to be using initials for a written interview
Right, who copied who
Just to offer some balance on the subject of press releases.....
Did SRAM forget to inbox me this press release? - Well, yes, yes it appears they forgot to send it to me so thanks for putting it up on the site.
Did I feel pressured to rush out and buy these wheels that you and SRAM appear to be "stuffing down our throats"? - No. Surprisingly enough I have enough control over my own spending to not feel any pressure in the slightest.
Am I all butt hurt that you put this video up? - No. I chose to click play on the video because frankly, I'm a nosey git and I prefered to watch a film about the wheels than read an article.