Eightpins Integrated Dropper Post - First Ride

Dec 5, 2016
by Mike Kazimer  


Eightpins' integrated dropper post caused a stir at this year's Eurobike trade show, and more recently it went on to win Pinkbike's Innovation of the Year award. Dropper posts aren't exactly new, and there are plenty of reasonably reliable options out there, so what's all the fuss about? It's the fact that Eightpins decided to integrate their post into the frame, rather than using the tube-within-a-tube design that's currently the norm. In addition to saving weight (it's claimed to be up to 25% lighter than some of the most popular droppers currently on the market), the design allows for much larger seals and internal parts, which should help increase reliability.

Lighter weight and less maintenance sounds great – so what's the catch? The catch is that you'll need to have a frame designed specifically for the post, since it's held in place by an axle that runs through the lower portion of the seat tube. The design also requires 30cm of uninterrupted seat tube in order to have 170mm of drop, and even more room for the longer travel options. In other words, it's not going to be compatible with frames that have stubby, interrupted seat tubes. Initially, Liteville will be the first company to offer the new post on their bikes, but Eightpins are eager to get others on board.


First Ride

Andreas Haimberger, one of the company's founders, rolled into town on a wet and stormy afternoon with three Eightpins-equipped demo bikes crammed into the back of a rental vehicle. He was halfway through a massive roadtrip that had him driving from Los Angeles to Vancouver, BC, all the way down south to Phoenix, Arizona, and then back to LA before flying home to Austria. Those thousands of miles were part of his quest to visit nearly every major bike manufacturer on the west coast, and since he happened to be passing though my neighborhood, I decided to take him up on his offer to give the Eightpins post a try, foul weather be damned.

We headed out for a soggy lap on my local trails, a relatively short loop, but one with plenty of quick climbs and descents where a dropper post comes in handy. But before hitting the trails a few adjustments had to be made. Due to the fact that there's no seatpost collar, setting the bike's saddle height is a little more involved than simply opening up a quick release, although it's still a simple procedure. It requires taking the seat off in order to access a 4mm hex bolt found near the top of the tube; once the bolt is loosened the post can be set at the desired position. After a few minutes of tinkering at the trailhead parking lot everything was ready to go - time to ride.

Eightpins dropper post
The post's remote lever was easy to reach and activate, even when there was a front shifter to contend with.
Eightpins dropper post
There's no seatpost clamp with Eightpins' design - the black portion houses a seal to keep dirt and mud out of the frame.


From the start, the most noticeable trait of the Eighpins post is how ridiculously easy it is to get it to move downwards. On most posts you need to put a good portion of your body weight on the saddle to push it to a lower position, but that simply wasn't the case with the Eightpins. It required the least amount of force out of any dropper post I've ridden, and once the thumb lever was depressed it felt like it only took a few pounds of body weight to get it to drop. Technically, the post doesn't have an infinite number of positions, but it can be stopped and locked into place every six millimeters, which felt close enough to infinite adjustability to me. The post also felt reassuringly solid - there wasn't any lateral slop, and no vertical play or squishiness. It even looks stout - the 33mm post diameter seems much more fitting for today's bikes rather than the narrow diameter of the upper tube on a 'regular' dropper post.

The post's return speed was smooth and quick, even after being coated with a nice layer of Washington's finest mud. That speed is controlled by an air spring, so it is possible to speed it up or slow it down to match rider preference. As always, one ride can't be considered a review, especially with something like a dropper post where reliability is a crucial factor, which is why we'll be getting an Eightpins-equipped Liteville to see how the post fares in the long term.


bigquotesThis initial ride was only a brief glimpse at the potential of the Eightpins post, but if it's any indication of what the future holds, I'm all for it; on more than one occasion I found myself thinking, "This is how a dropper post is supposed feel." Will any of the major bike manufacturers commit to producing bikes based around this design? I sure hope so - it seems to hold a huge amount of potential. It won't be an overnight change, and there are a few hurdles to overcome, but it would be great to see this technology become the norm sooner than later. - Mike Kazimer


Title photo: Stefan Voitl

184 Comments

  • + 94
 This is the way forward. Today if an all mountain bike is specced without a dropper it is garbage. May as well design it into the frame with more room for parts thus increased reliability.
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  • + 48
 I would be willing to wager that 90% of frames specced without a dropper are for cost reasons. So do you expect those bike companies trying to cut costs on the bottom line of price they can sell the bike for to spend more money designing the frame around a dropper? Moreover what if they also design it around a piece of junk dropper to save cost?
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  • + 257
 Can't wait until Sram designs one that's 2mm wider diameter...
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  • + 4
 Top 1% all the things!
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  • + 34
 I would rather see a move towards fatter seat tubes and correspondingly fatter droppers. This might work in isolation, but you already know that every big bike brand is designing it's own slightly different fitting that ties users into their own brand seat post. It's going be a spares and servicing nightmare. 40mm seat tubes would be better, plus if you don't want or can't afford a new frame and dropper at the same time shims are cheap and reliable. I can see integrated seat posts becoming the new Press Fit Bottom Bracket in a few year's time.
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  • + 24
 @bishopsmike: Yeah it should be called the rock shox "Jupiter" because the price for it would be in orbit...
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  • + 13
 @bishopsmike: or make one that drops in 5mm increments
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  • + 9
 @bishopsmike: ...and then file a lawsuit against this company.
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  • + 1
 @bsavery: I think droppers should be on all full suspension all mountain bikes regardless of price. If this thing catches on, I bet they would develop a more affordable version.
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  • + 5
 @Fix-the-Spade: just wait a few more months... the big red S is coming with something that will suit your desires... (the new enduro is allready designed around a fatter seat tube, and is using shims for the current dropper).
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  • + 10
 This is the gearbox of dropper posts. Beautiful concept, but no way will major players redesign their frames to accept droppers from a small company, when there are big players on the market which would loose money.
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  • + 13
 I'M NOT A BIG FAN OF ANY BIKE COMPONENT THAT CAN'T BE SHIFTED EASILY FROM ONE FRAME TO ANOTHER. SORRY FOR SHOUTING, CAPS LOCK STUCK ON!
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  • + 5
 @bsavery: I think we will soon have low cost, reliable dropper posts. If integration allows the dropper to become, lighter, stronger, simpler etc it will be totally worth it. The downside I see is when the dropper does need to be repaired, you can't just throw in a normal seat post until your old one comes back from service (or can you?)
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  • + 2
 @DGWW: No reason you couldn't make a fixed post to fit this standard. It'd just need to be a little complicated(It has to have a mechanical way to change seat height) or cut-to-fit. Changing seat height with a QR is out though.

That said, from what I understand of the eightpins, you'd just swap in a new cartridge for a failed post, rather than sending it back.
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  • + 6
 @tricklin: Slightly frightening when Specialized are the ones bringing sensible developments.
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  • + 16
 Erm, yes all of the better bikes have dropper posts. They also have shocks, why wouldn't we incorporate shock air can as a part of the frame? Or stem as a part of the steerer tube? Why don't we all ride carbon disc wheels like Bike ahead? Why would you use spokes? Here's an idea - remove outboard BB and headset bearing races and save weight by pressing bearings straight into the frame! fantastic idea loved by mechanics all over the world, since it brings them at least twice as many clients with BB and headset issues.

Can someone explain me again, which problem does integrated post solve exactly? I am thinking and thinking and can't remember nor come up with anything on my own...
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  • + 4
 @WAKIdesigns: it actually seems to be a step towards solving a problem that plagues many dropper posts, reliability while having the added benefits of suposedly being lighter (though I'm not sure that's true, but who cares about weight anyway?) and allow for longer shaft travel (which is better according to most girls). The drawback is the added work to adjust seat height (but again, who cares?) and obviously, the break it argument: frame changes needed.
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  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns: Let's hope someone takes this good idea and build it in a format that doesn't require fiddling with current seatube standards.
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  • + 6
 @ibishreddin:
" I think droppers should be on all full suspension all mountain bikes regardless of price."

A statement which indicates a pretty fundamental lack of understanding of basic economics...
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  • + 2
 @guycharlesvalois: this post will not solve reliability issues that plague other designs. It is a dropper post that is about to hit the market, it will have reliability issues for the next 5 years. As far as I am aware 9point8 Fall lne is the most reliable post. Please take note that Rock Shox is now 6 years into fixing Reverb, so they came a long way. Longer travel is good for long folks, not so nevessary for others. If anybody thinks it is so great to be able to slam the seat all the way down, then please go try to ride without saddle or get a DJ bike with 12" seat tube, put knobby tyres on and tell me how much more confident you feel on descents. There are some markers for noobs when you look at people's setups and I have never seen a good rider with the seat slammed down. So it is great for long legs and worthless for others.
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  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns: I would disagree with this statement. This post MAY solve some reliability issues due to the larger size bushing and internal stanchion.
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  • + 0
 @bsavery: nope. Larger tube diameter requires tighter manufacturing tolerances for bushings and seals. Rock Shox Totem and Marzocchi 888 with 38mm stanchions are saying hello. Now latest Reverbs have increased bushing overlap. It basically comes down to fat arses sitting on posts longer than necessary - end of story. A rather little gain, considering maintenance complications.
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  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns: First of all, no I would disagree strongly that larger tube diameters require tighter manufacturing tolerances. I don't think there is any correlation there you can have a wide diameter with low tolerance or the other way around. Furthermore tighter tolerances can lead to more manufacturing defects, but reliability is a different story. Example. Chris King hubs and headsets are pretty well known to have some of the tightest tolerances around. Do you think they are reliable?

There is however a correlation between bushing size on forks and how quickly they wear out. Take forks for example. It's simple physics that if you have a smaller fork stanchion with the same amount of force, there is going to be more pressure on the fork bushings and internals, and over time more wear and premature breakdown. I,e. Reliability. And I would wager the same issue is true for dropper posts. Wider bearings/bushings are strong. Or else maybe you'd claim that old 24mm bottom brackets are stiffer than 30mm ones?
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  • + 2
 @tricklin: See this makes sense. Solve the same problem without limiting people. I don't care how important manufacturers think their stuff is. I just need the option of replacing it when it brakes (and most stuff on your bike will eventually) without having to donate a kidney.
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  • + 2
 @DGWW: I'm sure a company will make a sleeve adapter to fit the hole.
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  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: just like bmx, little 5' tall kids running the highest rise bars on the market....
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  • + 0
 @WAKIdesigns: I agree with one thing. Longer seatpost travel is really helpful for tall people like me. 100-125mm wouldn't be enough for me and will be somewhat a compromise.
I'm currently riding a XL AM frame (160/160 travel front/rear) with 53cm seat tube and I have a 400mm post fitted.
I'm 195cm with somewhat longer legs than "normal' for this height and my post seems ridiculously high for other people. I still don't have a dropper due to tight budget when I was building the bike and is awful on descends - I don't have any freedom moving around the bike. So I have to sacrifice ascends or descends, or I have to stop frequently and change my seatpost height according to the section that follows, but that's awful too.
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  • + 0
 Design it into frame!

Why?

What about single screw at the back?

I can imagine what sits behind that screw and how it works and it is crap.
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  • + 2
 @DGWW: You can use any other dropper or 34,9mm seatpost. Syntace has a very light shim to run a 31,6 dropper.
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  • + 63
 WAIT. So this product received "Innovation of the year" but this is the first time it's been ridden? How could you guys have made the decision to state it as innovation of the year without actually riding it?
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  • + 22
 That's what I was wondering?
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  • + 17
 And it's only compatible with less than 2% of the bikes out there?
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  • + 20
 I mean like it's pretty innovative
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  • + 8
 Totally my first thought on seeing the article. I'm assuming/hoping this test was done before the award was given out and the delay is simply in writing the article. If not that's ridiculous
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  • + 62
 The rules for Innovation of the Year are different from Component, Suspension, or Bike of the Year (www.pinkbike.com/news/pinkbike-awards-2016-rules-and-guidelines.html). With the other categories, they need to be products we've spent extensive time on. For the innovation category, it's more about recognizing / rewarding a product that shows the most potential for the future.
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  • + 43
 when you are going up against shipping foam in tires and a bike concept from the 90's u sort of paint yourself into a corner.
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  • + 53
 Don't talk bad about it, or Paul Aston will create an entire article on just how mean we are...... Uh oh, this post will make him run to his safe space.
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  • + 0
 @makripper: Wait, sorry how is the Robot bike a concept from the 90's? 3D printing was not invented back then, unless you're saying the concept is custom sized bikes?
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  • + 3
 @makripper: Exactly. Specialized should sue them for not getting the innovation award for the swat compartment.
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  • + 1
 @mikekazimer i think what people are getting at is it seems to have gotten innovation of the year because there was a chance that it does better than other droppers. i can appreciate they took an innovative route and that it may very well be better, but it could also be complete crap....

i also think people feel like this dropper is being jammed down their throats because any chance it can be brought up, it is brought up.
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  • + 9
 @mikekazimer: Future, bike manufacturers will integrate their individual systems thus going away with standards leaving the consumers with less options...possibly higher prices. Not all bike are created equal.
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  • + 7
 Innovation of the year: METALSISTEM chainring. Hands down. There is a MTB version as well. The chainline auto-adjust. i.ytimg.com/vi/j-huOyZsAlM/maxresdefault.jpg
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  • + 3
 @Morebike: 2% I would think more like .00000000000002%
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  • + 3
 @mikekazimer: Im guessing you at least looked at the product at a trade show or did you give it the innovation reward all from press release?
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  • + 3
 @Gregorysmithj1, yes, several of us were able to examine / poke / prod samples at the Eurobike trade show.
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  • + 2
 @mazze: Now that is funny!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  • + 3
 @adrennan: Innovation is more about the concept or the idea than the execution. An award for innovation is an award for thinking outside the box to solve a common problem. While the initial - proof of concept - execution may or may not be "complete crap," you have to admit the concept does attempt to address the most common complaints about droppers: reliability, travel, weight.

As a consumer I agree with many of the haters here in that I much prefer cross compatible components, and would not want to lock myself into a single dropper post option (unless it's performance has been proven).

As an engineer I understand that integrating components to allow for fewer, more robust parts is always the preferred option in terms of weight, strength, reliability.
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  • + 4
 @mrleach: and as an engineer I feel that the frame design, the most important aspect of a bike, should not be constrained by a seat post. This dropper really limits what can be done in the seat tube region.
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  • + 1
 @taquitos: I agree that frame design is by far the most important aspect of bike design. Let’s be honest here, bike frame design is constrained in many ways as it must be compatible with other components which are not designed concurrently with the frame. That is the purpose/reality of “standards.” Head tube diameters, bottom bracket diameter/width, rear axles, seat tube diameters, brake mounts, chain guides, derailleur hangers, internal cable routing. All of these constrain bike frame design.

If the market demands a super reliable, long travel dropper, (which it seems to if you read comments on bike forums) and the frame designer decides to go the “Eightpins” route, it is just one more constraint to have to design around. It may not be ideal for every situation, but many seat tube/rocker style rear suspensions can be designed with the necessary clearance for a long straight seat post. A thru bolt in the same location as the seat tube is not an absolute requirement. I admit, the tire clearance issue for longer travel 29ers with short chain stays is a bit tricky to design around, but not impossible.
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  • + 3
 @mrleach: I'd say tire clearance would be an issue on a large majority of frames that are selling well right now. Just look at the Transition Patrol for example. Switching such frames with modern geometry to a straight seat post would throw the bike's fit back a few years. This strikes me as one of those instances where someone has taken a good idea and overdone it. Extra length is good, but I'd bet that the ideal length is somewhere between a the length of a typical dropper and this. The through hole in the seat post to constrain it is a little bit silly. Actually it's one of the silliest ways I've ever seen a cylindrical object constrained. I foresee issues in the future where this loosens and the entire dropper develops a little bit of play. Not to mention that hole becomes a stress concentration in the frame.

On another note, what the internet wants and what it needs are entirely different. Unless you are riding a frame that is way to small no one needs a 220mm dropper.
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  • + 1
 @taquitos: Well technically with that frame (and most frames with bent seat tubes), you could enlarge front portion of the bottom half of the seat tube seat tube to get the required clearance, while still maintaining the current seat tube angle and tire clearance. The new problem then becomes shock clearance. The bottom shock mount would need to shift forward (along with the upper rocker pivot to clear the way for a seat tube). I recognize that is a lot of change to accommodate a dropper, maybe not worth the effort in that case.

That Transition Patrol you mentioned also has a thru bolt in the seat tube (talk about stress concentration).

I do agree with the fact that "needing" a 200+ mm travel dropper seems ridiculous. I'm perfectly happy with my 125 mm drop Transfer. I'm just playing devil's advocate here.

Manufacturers re-design their frames constantly as part of standard product evolution. I doubt they will initiate a re-design of their frame solely to accommodate a new dropper design, but I feel like they would be remiss to not even consider it as a part of the re-design process. If they can make it work without sacrificing more important things like geometry or suspension design, great. It would lend itself well to many VPP bikes (Santa Cruz, Intense). A good engineer enjoys a design challenge, but also knows when the juice isn't worth the squeeze.
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  • + 1
 @mrleach: Yes you could make the seat tube straight and move the shock mount, but that would have large affects on suspension dynamics. Just about every four bar linkage frame has two through holes in the seat tube for bearings. I don't think they need another or they will look like swiss cheese. Other suspension designs where the shock doesn't mount next to the seat tube have a lot more freedom here, hence the bike this dropper is on mounts the shock on the top tube.

In reference to your comment about how there are many standards the exist and depict frame design, many of those standards were created in order to aide the frame design. That's just about the only selling point of boost.

As far as design challenges go, that's exactly why I think this isn't the ideal solution. I think there has to be a way to get the reliability people want (I've never had issues with my reverb dropper though) without having to design an entire member of the frame around it. A good design challenge that moves technology forwards won't compromise on either end.
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  • + 1
 @mrleach: Eightpins has an offset head to move the seat tube 25mm forward. This should help to create the clearance.
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  • + 61
 When specialized intergrate parts = bad
When other companies intergate parts = good
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  • + 54
 When specialized integrate parts it's usually patented and can't only work with specialized so it is rubbish. With this it can be used by all brands if they choose to.
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  • + 18
 @Paul7189: which sucks because what if the dropper post actually sucks and you would like to use a different brand or the bike actually sucks and you like the dropper post?
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  • + 1
 @makripper: I dont see why wouldnt you be able to shim it.... well clamp will have no space
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  • + 0
 Because most of Specialized house brand stuff is garbage. There hubs are trash. A pain ti deal with their rear proprietary shock, and their dropper will smash the "boys" into sterility om the way up. if you are careful
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  • + 4
 @makripper Because f*ck specialized.
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  • + 9
 @sevensixtwo: constructive comment, you take things pretty serioustly...
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  • + 10
 @Paul7189: not sure about what proprietary parts you're referring to but the swat box is pure genius though, you can't deny it. And their saddles are excellent as well. Short chain stays? They pioneered it. But I agree there is a lot to hate as well: SCS hub spacing, lawyers, etc.
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  • + 2
 @blackthorne: Horst link. . . I know they didn't invent it but they sure did refine it and a few highly loved companies are using it now!
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  • + 0
 @makripper: yo, read it in the "Innovation of the year" article you actually can use a different seatpost/dropperpost just by removing the original Eightpin and putting on a clamp.
And if you hate the bike and like the dropper post you are pretty f*cked because I've heard that if people like something the industry will be like "Hey people actually like this product; We should definitely produce our own not as good variant of this product and sell it way more expensive than what the masses liked in the first place".
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  • + 3
 @its-chris: ^^ This is correct ^^ It would directly take a 34.9 dropper post (huge and heavy) or you can shim it down to 31.6 or 30.9 dropper post.
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  • + 3
 @blackthorne: They pioneered short chainstays? What the hell are you talking about. That's a ridiculous statement.
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  • + 18
 Due to the required length of the internal frame portion - which is more than that of a traditional dropper, I can't many companies designing a bike around a post, when what they have (frame design) is great - it would mean complete redesign for many rear end shock/frame designs. Plus, I like the idea of having many dropper choices to fit my bike.
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  • + 1
 I can see there won't be a 29er full suspension with this dropper.
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  • + 18
 Can PB sort out their dropper post reviews. Every one of them says all other posts are sh*t but this one is the only one which works (Excluding the kronolog review). Either accept that there are multiple options and stop saying that reliability is the main issue or wait for long enough to comment on reliability.
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  • + 6
 in a similar vein everyone seems to report how amazing the reverb is. I don't know anyone who has had a great reverb experience that wasnt also cashing a check from sram
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  • + 29
 Reverb: "The reliability and install-and-forget nature make it our first choice"
"The ultra-reliable D.O.S.S"
Thompson: "reliable, strong, low-maintenance seatpost that should remain trouble-free for multiple seasons"
Specialized: "Reliability is still the big issue for dropper seat posts, and if a dropper can prove its worth on that front, it's a winner in my books. The Command Post IRCC does exactly that."
"The Bachelor 150 works well and after six months is proving reliable"
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  • + 9
 @mikekazimer: Apologies, I didn't actually see that one as that's basically what I was after. I know the reliability is all relative to the current standard as well and that one review over 6 months is never going to find every problem. I just needed to rant about the same issues which keep cropping up and PB was the easiest to blame.
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  • + 10
 @sharky1029: No problem. You'll see more of those review compilations in the future - it's a good way for us to check back in and alert readers to any issues that have cropped up since a review initially aired.
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  • - 1
 @adrennan: I have had two different Reverbs and external (1st gen) and a stealth (2nd gen) since 2011. They have never given me any problems beyond needing routine maintenance and rebuild on each. I ride 2-4 x a week in the Southeast (N GA, W NC, E TN, VA, SC). The biggest issue I have ever had was simply the post return slowing down when they were due for a bleed (simple to do) or rebuild. Regarding rebuilds SRAM via QBP turns them around in a week or less and hardly charges anything for it (2 of the 3 I've had completed cost me only the shipping). I feel pretty confident endorsing the Reverb as it has performed pretty damn well. I have some perspective on the matter as I probably I have ridden dropper posts longer than most around here with employing them on my bikes for nearly ten years. Finally, I can't wait to cash that sweet sweet check from SRAM any minute now...see how I'm livin? Ha!
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  • + 9
 Reverb: I rode many, they all felt different. One broke in the middle of the ride. Stay away. It is popular Only because OEM deals.
Fox: I had it for 8 months and it broke. Same for a friend.
Giant: Good post
9Point8: Good post
Turbine and Easton: Good post not as well made as 9P8, better lever
Gravity Dropper: Crude but undestructable and good deal used
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  • + 1
 @hellbelly: fair. i am speaking to personal experience and people i know. i also personally hate the button ergonomics. i came off a fox doss to the reverb. the doss was a model of reliability, literally never did anything to it and it just keeps working. i may also be the only person who liked the doss remote.
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  • + 1
 @adrennan: I've had my Reverb for about 4 months and am still pretty satisfied. Still functions like when it was first installed. Doesn't seem to like temps below 30 but it just gets a little sluggish on the return. This is my first dropper so I don't really have anything to compare to.
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  • + 2
 @hellbelly: your personal experience, and anyone else's is irrelevant. The fact is that lots of people have had problems with them.
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  • + 6
 I have had two giant contact posts and 0 issues. Cheaper than a reverb and uh you don't need to bleed em
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  • + 2
 @Gasket-Jeff: Yes but that 20mm offset doesn't work for everyone.
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  • + 8
 when something as valuable as a dropper post has become standard equipment on all new bikes for years and years, someone said to themselves, "oh, we should just integrated into the frame!". that is the part that IS the actual innovation, the actually lightbulb going off in the head part of it. maybe not this first try, by this company, on this frame; but the idea itself is the brilliant innovation. kudos eightpins!
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  • + 2
 I am waiting for the integrated shock...
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  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns: ed China's already done it on his four poster bed Smile
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  • + 6
 When this post needs serviced/warrantied by the manufacturer can I take it out and send it in and drop in my $20 backup standard post with a quick release and go ride for the next 2-3 weeks while I wait for my dropper post to be returned?
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  • + 0
 This would be a key point for me. I swap out my dropper/saddle for a regular post/beat up saddle before heading to the park. No point in risking crash damage/damage from chairlifts that retain the bike by the saddle. Maybe I'm just paranoid, anyone else does this?

I also wouldn't take a Liteville to the park.
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  • + 2
 @dave-f: What's wrong with a Liteville in the park?
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  • + 0
 @Skinnyman: Thin-walled downtube with no protection. Do a google picture search for "Liteville dents" or "Liteville beulen".
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  • + 2
 @dave-f: I'd just put an old tyre as a protection if I were to use a 301 in a bikepark. I have no reason to believe that the downtube on 601 is more dent-prone than on the other bikes that are fit for bikepark. Thin walls do not necessarily mean more dents. Try googling for the dents on other frames and the result is more or less the same.
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  • + 6
 @mikekazimer
Lots of comments here about how this isn't a review, how did this win innovation of the year, etc. I have a serious question.

You mentioned the lack of play and ease of movement. I wonder how much of this is due to being integrated to the frame or simply being a bigger diameter and having less stiction on the seals, bigger air chamber etc. I.e, if we all settled on much larger seat tubes could we get the same effect? Because that's an idea I can get behind.
[Reply]
  • + 3
 Oh re-reading the review it sounds like the crucial part is the attachment farther down the seat tube vs the seatpost clamp. Hmm. The seat tube diameter is simply a 34.9. Maybe we simply need to rethink the seatpost clamp, you can certainly effect the operation of a dropper by over-tightening them.
[Reply]
  • + 3
 I'm curious about that as well. I think part of it might have to do with the lack of a seat clamp - there's nothing squeezing on the post, allowing it to move more freely. I think the bigger diameter would be a benefit for traditional designs as well, but it's harder to keep the weight down with that style of dropper.
[Reply]
  • + 3
 @mikekazimer: Yeah. Most droppers seems designed around the lowest common denominator of seatpost sizes then basically shim the lower part. (or increase the lower tube width). I would not be surprised if a dropper properly designed mainly for 34.9 to be as light would have most of the benefits as this. You'd just need to rethink the seatpost clamp.
[Reply]
  • + 9
 So that linkage is just asking my balls to die
[Reply]
  • + 7
 The guys I used to work with would say that v stands for vasectomy.
[Reply]
  • + 22
 If you ride without pants and somehow manage to compress and then unweight the suspension, all while squashing your twig and berries against the top tube, then yes, I suppose it could happen.
[Reply]
  • + 16
 @mikekazimer: People ride with pants?
[Reply]
  • + 14
 @mikekazimer: I ride commando. makes me a smoother rider through rockgardens
[Reply]
  • + 10
 In combination with the seatpost, Liteville calls it the Drop n' Chop.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 If the dropper post don't finish the job, that will!
[Reply]
  • + 3
 Crazy things happen during crashes. Ever ridden your top tube down a steep section?
[Reply]
  • + 0
 Just some clips for evidence purposes. I know there is more, I just can't find them
1. www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io1pbncZysM
2. www.facebook.com/Downhill24hours/videos/533707050160102
[Reply]
  • + 5
 How can anyone honestly complain about any of this content? You're getting awesome reviews, amazing pictures, and mega videos updated daily...and all FREE, mind you. Some people just don't know how good they have it.

Thanks for the write up PB. I'll gladly read up on a MTB innovation over an article on what treachery the rest of the World dealt itself today.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 It is not FREE, we pay with advertisement injected in our subconscious.
[Reply]
  • + 7
 How to set the seat height (Eightpins Edition):
Step 1: Remove the seat from your bike.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Any information on how the locking mechanism works on this post? Does it use a collar like specialized or ball bearings like Fox?

Also does this post have a shortened lower tube? The Eightpins' website mentions a "reduction tube" that the bushings residing in.
[Reply]
  • + 4
 The locking mechanism is an important part of how reliable the dropper post is, and just to claim this will be more reliable because its integrated is ridiculous. The expanding collet employed by Specialized is extremely reliable, but it requires preset "stops" that aren't preferred in today's range of "infinite adjust" droppers, but as the reliability concerns of the RF/Easton "brake" or Reverb's hydraulic locking system have shown, sometimes simpler is better.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 @PHeller: I agree. I think the main advantage to this design is that they don't have to have a thick lower tube to resist seatpost clamp forces. Theoretically this should give them more volume to beef up the locking mechanism but that remains to be seen.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 @mikekazimer Got to love your job. You need to test a seatpost so you get a new Liteville, arguably one of the finest German frame manufacturers out there. Enjoy! Smile But if you're at it, you may just as well review their Evo6 rear axle spacing (seems to make more sense than regular Boost) and other typical Liteville touches.

And if you happen to be happy about the bike, don't worry that half PB will be screaming that a bike for that kind of money ought to be made out of carbon, not aluminium Wink .
[Reply]
  • + 2
 @mikekazimer - did you play with airspring pressure to see what speeding up the return would do to the light touch sufficient to get it down? I love a quick return (go from technical standing climbing to seated in a heartbeat), but always thought it would be nice to get the seat down more quickly and easily (without as much body English) for little adjustments on rolling trails (as opposed to when you're just getting it out of the way once before descending).
[Reply]
  • + 1
 good for straight and long seatposts but would only work on my hardtail. Why not just pick any of the already reliable droppers out there. Im getting on well with my factory fox transfer and i think unless we use telescoping designs we will be very limited to boring frame configurations.
[Reply]
  • + 3
 Why use a tube in the first place? square box with slide guides, fail safe type brake for clamping and mechanical spring inside square seat stay to raise.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 There is a thing that grinds my gears. Is it not just me, who is waiting for a standardised seat tube diameter? If i want to buy a new frame, it is wery likely, that i have to look after a new dropper post, because my old(but perfectly working) one will not fit. In the age of dropper posts, it is nonsense, that we have a dozen of different seat tube diameters, since the shock-absorbtion of the skinnier seattposts is not a factor on full sussers. For me, it makes no sense, why to build a bike with skinnier tubes than 31.6. Larger post diameter leads to more durable construction, right? So why do manufacturers design frames for the smaller sizes?
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I switch my pedals out from clipless to flats. When I do, I have to readjust my seat post height as the pedals have different stack heights. Once you cut the post to fit, you no longer have that option....No thanks on the integrated post. I'll stick with my KS and can't wait till the new carbon version comes out in a few months.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I've had my Rase 9 for 6 years

Head movement killed them - does not affect the ride AT ALL

Ultra reliable and simple

Bad crash cracked the top seat clamp , no parts so now I have to enter the world of no wiggle - most important - and fuzzy reliability - very popular :-)
[Reply]
  • + 1
 It even looks stout - the 33mm post diameter seems much more fitting for today's bikes rather than the narrow diameter of the upper tube on a 'regular' dropper post.

Was this article written by complete idiot?

Pure advertising trick!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Feels like another case of why we should just avoid the sales pitches of every great new thing....I personally think droppers right now are pretty damn good....building it into a frame offers no advantages and good luck getting spares (here in Malaysia spares and service is a bit of an issue)..... Just get out and ride and make sure your riding to social/bike media ratio is high
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I think if this design proves more reliable, look for other companies to adapt their idea into their frame designs, but they'll make their own proprietary designs for their own frames, leaving Eight Pin out in the cold. Beyond that, I just don't see this taking off. Just a hunch.
[Reply]
  • + 3
 My worry is similar in that this design may be patented (I'm not sure) and other companies will be forced to buy into it or create their own way of integrating with the frame.

Heaven forbid companies develop "standards" for integrating with different types.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 @cgdibble: Patents expire, or you can develop some feature that is just enough to avoid violating a patent. Also, you have to police your patent yourself, and a lot of people don't bother. (Although, I think it would be easy enough to police this one). And then there's cost-to-benefit factors -- i.e. Yeah, we could go after Specialized, but do we really have the money to outlast them in court to make it worth our while?

At any rate, we have dozens of droppers on the market right now. If this is a successful innovation, I don't see why we also wouldn't have dozens of integrated designs. Who knows, maybe the bike manufacturers will contract Eight Pin to design their proprietary droppers. If anything comes of it, I think they'll learn to adapt to frames with curved seat stays, etc., as time goes on. They'll have to, or they're dead in the water.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 @mikekazimer: how do you tolerate this keyboard warrior pish on a weekly basis? You are a brave man. Anyways you just send the new dropper and that knacker trapper over to me and I will try to kill it with scottish mud for the winter.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I'm curious to see what checklist does PB have, if any, to base a product winner of innovation of the year? Integrating a dropper post by a manufacturer into their own product line limits the consumers choices in the market of, or better products. A product should be universal to existing systems to be even be chosen in this category?
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Standard seat tubes are outdated. They're the modern equivalent of threaded steerers or quill stems. I hate to say it, but we need a new seat tube standard.

The Eightpins is innovative because the days of standard seat tubes should have been over the instant people started to say "I'm not going to use a standard seatpost ever again". The reason droppers are heavy, unreliable, high maintenance, sloppy and sticky is because a small tube with a clamp at the top is the absolute worst way to try and mount a dropper post to a frame.

This marks the first purpose-built frame (for a dropper) and Mike said it best: "This is how a dropper post is supposed to feel." That's because it was built without the huge compromise that is the standard seat tube with a top clamp. I bet we'll see incredibly reliable, cheap posts with huge service intervals if something like this becomes standardised.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Can I clamp it into a bike stand like a regular seatpost? You can always extend a bit even a long dropper post to have a wider part exposed to clamp it safely, but it seems impossible with this design. Or you just clamp it on that black seal part?
[Reply]
  • + 0
 Just clamp it by the stanchion, as long as your clamp is clean and you're not a retard it will be fine.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 @Nobble: always trying not to be one.
[Reply]
  • + 0
 Here I thought the industry was moving away from the 1st gen tube in tube to the next gen hydraulic brake. Is a scale up of a first gen design the way forward? Let's see how it goes.

Side note: the populist complains about new standards, yet trips over ourselves when a new standard arrives from left field. Strange.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 So this is longer and requires a bolt to go through the seat tube. I imagine it will add carbonium price and cromolly weight savings. Innovation. Bring a gear box to mass production bixe
[Reply]
  • + 9
 Much comment. Very wow.
[Reply]
  • + 3
 taking the seat to adjust the height? surely you can come up with something better than this!
[Reply]
  • + 0
 That's only for the initial setup, to adjust the maximum seat height - it's not something you'd need to do every ride.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 @mikekazimer: Until I get my optimal seat height I make changes almost in every ride. Sometimes more than once per ride. So I have to remove my seat in order to do that?
[Reply]
  • + 0
 The post's return speed was smooth and quick, even after being coated with a nice layer of Washington's finest mud. That speed is controlled by an air spring, so it is possible to speed it up or slow it down to match rider preference. As always, one ride can't be considered a review, especially with something like a dropper post where reliability is a crucial factor, which is why we'll be getting an Eightpins-equipped Liteville to see how the post fares in the long term. BUAHAHA
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Although I've heard the Litevilles are great bikes, I can't help but think 'ballchopper' even if that's physically impossible. Thumbs up for the eightpins concept!
[Reply]
  • + 3
 They do make some bikes with less intimidating linkage positioning.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 this reminds me of specialized doing bullshit OEM specific rear shocks that result in pain in the ass replacement, inability to upgrade, and as a result, less time on the bike when shit hits the fan.
[Reply]
  • + 3
 Although useless on most everyones bike today it's still better looking then Paul Astons Arbr nut Saker. Big Grin
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Is the post user serviceable? If it has to be sent away what do you slap in your bike to ride in the meantime?
[Reply]
  • + 2
 You could use a regular dropper with a shim if for some reason you needed to service this post.
[Reply]
  • + 3
 @mikekazimer: and you clamp it how exactly?
[Reply]
  • + 2
 @bishopsmike: I don't have a bike on hand to verify, but I believe you could pull off the extension tube (the black or red portion in the photos), and then install a standard seatpost clamp.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 @bishopsmike: With a regular seat clamp, I imagine.
[Reply]
  • - 1
 So much credit being given to this post just based on how it looks. It won the innovation award because of reliability, but you even admit to only assuming that is true: "which should help increase reliability". Even in the actual review the bias shows through because it looks more stout, like a good ol mountain bike post should. This is stupid.
[Reply]
  • + 14
 You do realize this isn't a review, right?
[Reply]
  • - 2
 @mikekazimer: No? It's just some validation to say that you actually rode it?
[Reply]
  • + 9
 @thedeathstar: "As always, one ride can't be considered a review, especially with something like a dropper post where reliability is a crucial factor, which is why we'll be getting an Eightpins-equipped Liteville to see how the post fares in the long term."

This is a way to let readers know about my initial impressions, since there aren't many people out there who have seen, let alone ridden a bike with this post.
[Reply]
  • - 9
 @mikekazimer: Got it. It's not a long term review. I don't think anyone thought it was. The point is that your not review is still touting as near fact something that is only assumed based on how big it is. Whether you consider this a review or not, saying that it's probably better in part because it looks more mountain bikey is immensely stupid.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 @mikekazimer: What would be pretty interesting is whether you could retrofit this into an existing frame? Obviously not for carbon, but what a coup for older hardtails that could be brought back to life with a natty dropper - with a few welded modules.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 @GDPipsqueak:
It would require the re-anealing of an aluminum frame. It'd end up costing more than just buying a new frame.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Sounds like a good concept.
Let's see what Specialized will bring along. Aren't their 2017 models equipped with a 34.9mm seattube?
[Reply]
  • + 2
 You pressed a lever and your seat went up and down?!?!?!?!?! How innovative!
[Reply]
  • + 2
 It's innovative because it will add to a bike cost as it requires designing a longer straight seat tube section which in turn may compromise some ingenious bike frame designs and also paying for the exclusive patented dropper post. All which never happened with the use of conventional dropper post designs. I hope I didn't upset Paul.
[Reply]
  • + 3
 all this fuss to save 125 grams? meh.
[Reply]
  • + 3
 how do you adjust rider height?
[Reply]
  • + 1
 there was an article on the post from one of the trade shows which was pretty in depth on how it works, i'm pretty exited about it!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Can you modify the position of the post in the frame or do you have to compromise the travel of the post to set your resting position?
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Good idea for the manufacturer I guess, but you're completely relying on the post not being absolute crap.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 How do you adjust the static seat height? Can you fine tune it as with the regular seat posts and droppers?
[Reply]
  • + 0
 I'm not for brands making design compromises to the performance of their frames just to fit a stupid dropper post standard. This is the opposite of what I like to see.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Singing this to The Clash's "Clampdown"
"It goes up and it goes down, working for the clampdown!"

yes, i'm different lol
[Reply]
  • + 1
 wait so you gave it innovation of the year without riding it first?... hmm...
[Reply]
  • + 3
 Good idea from sure.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Wouldn't this be really hard to service?
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Pretty excited about the tube boost standard.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 @mikekazimer, thanks for the article. Good job. Very informative.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 There is a potential you catch your trouser on that guillotine?
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Fit the bike around the post
[Reply]
  • + 1
 my next post will be brand x.
[Reply]
  • + 0
 This product is a perfect example of a solution needing a problem
[Reply]
  • - 1
 That's an interesting bike. Strange how the suspension is backwards? I'm curious how that bike performs?
[Reply]

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