Eightpins' integrated dropper post caused a stir at this year's Eurobike trade show, and more recently it went on to win Pinkbike's
Innovation of the Year award. Dropper posts aren't exactly new, and there are plenty of reasonably reliable options out there, so what's all the fuss about? It's the fact that Eightpins decided to integrate their post into the frame, rather than using the tube-within-a-tube design that's currently the norm. In addition to saving weight (it's claimed to be up to 25% lighter than some of the most popular droppers currently on the market), the design allows for much larger seals and internal parts, which should help increase reliability.
Lighter weight and less maintenance sounds great – so what's the catch? The catch is that you'll need to have a frame designed specifically for the post, since it's held in place by an axle that runs through the lower portion of the seat tube. The design also requires 30cm of uninterrupted seat tube in order to have 170mm of drop, and even more room for the longer travel options. In other words, it's not going to be compatible with frames that have stubby, interrupted seat tubes. Initially, Liteville will be the first company to offer the new post on their bikes, but Eightpins are eager to get others on board.
First RideAndreas Haimberger, one of the company's founders, rolled into town on a wet and stormy afternoon with three Eightpins-equipped demo bikes crammed into the back of a rental vehicle. He was halfway through a massive roadtrip that had him driving from Los Angeles to Vancouver, BC, all the way down south to Phoenix, Arizona, and then back to LA before flying home to Austria. Those thousands of miles were part of his quest to visit nearly every major bike manufacturer on the west coast, and since he happened to be passing though my neighborhood, I decided to take him up on his offer to give the Eightpins post a try, foul weather be damned.
We headed out for a soggy lap on my local trails, a relatively short loop, but one with plenty of quick climbs and descents where a dropper post comes in handy. But before hitting the trails a few adjustments had to be made. Due to the fact that there's no seatpost collar, setting the bike's saddle height is a little more involved than simply opening up a quick release, although it's still a simple procedure. It requires taking the seat off in order to access a 4mm hex bolt found near the top of the tube; once the bolt is loosened the post can be set at the desired position. After a few minutes of tinkering at the trailhead parking lot everything was ready to go - time to ride.
From the start, the most noticeable trait of the Eighpins post is how ridiculously easy it is to get it to move downwards. On most posts you need to put a good portion of your body weight on the saddle to push it to a lower position, but that simply wasn't the case with the Eightpins. It required the least amount of force out of any dropper post I've ridden, and once the thumb lever was depressed it felt like it only took a few pounds of body weight to get it to drop. Technically, the post doesn't have an infinite number of positions, but it can be stopped and locked into place every six millimeters, which felt close enough to infinite adjustability to me. The post also felt reassuringly solid - there wasn't any lateral slop, and no vertical play or squishiness. It even
looks stout - the 33mm post diameter seems much more fitting for today's bikes rather than the narrow diameter of the upper tube on a 'regular' dropper post.
The post's return speed was smooth and quick, even after being coated with a nice layer of Washington's finest mud. That speed is controlled by an air spring, so it is possible to speed it up or slow it down to match rider preference. As always, one ride can't be considered a review, especially with something like a dropper post where reliability is a crucial factor, which is why we'll be getting an Eightpins-equipped Liteville to see how the post fares in the long term.
| This initial ride was only a brief glimpse at the potential of the Eightpins post, but if it's any indication of what the future holds, I'm all for it; on more than one occasion I found myself thinking, "This is how a dropper post is supposed feel." Will any of the major bike manufacturers commit to producing bikes based around this design? I sure hope so - it seems to hold a huge amount of potential. It won't be an overnight change, and there are a few hurdles to overcome, but it would be great to see this technology become the norm sooner than later. - Mike Kazimer |
Title photo: Stefan Voitl
That said, from what I understand of the eightpins, you'd just swap in a new cartridge for a failed post, rather than sending it back.
Can someone explain me again, which problem does integrated post solve exactly? I am thinking and thinking and can't remember nor come up with anything on my own...
" I think droppers should be on all full suspension all mountain bikes regardless of price."
A statement which indicates a pretty fundamental lack of understanding of basic economics...
There is however a correlation between bushing size on forks and how quickly they wear out. Take forks for example. It's simple physics that if you have a smaller fork stanchion with the same amount of force, there is going to be more pressure on the fork bushings and internals, and over time more wear and premature breakdown. I,e. Reliability. And I would wager the same issue is true for dropper posts. Wider bearings/bushings are strong. Or else maybe you'd claim that old 24mm bottom brackets are stiffer than 30mm ones?
I'm currently riding a XL AM frame (160/160 travel front/rear) with 53cm seat tube and I have a 400mm post fitted.
I'm 195cm with somewhat longer legs than "normal' for this height and my post seems ridiculously high for other people. I still don't have a dropper due to tight budget when I was building the bike and is awful on descends - I don't have any freedom moving around the bike. So I have to sacrifice ascends or descends, or I have to stop frequently and change my seatpost height according to the section that follows, but that's awful too.
Why?
What about single screw at the back?
I can imagine what sits behind that screw and how it works and it is crap.
i also think people feel like this dropper is being jammed down their throats because any chance it can be brought up, it is brought up.
As a consumer I agree with many of the haters here in that I much prefer cross compatible components, and would not want to lock myself into a single dropper post option (unless it's performance has been proven).
As an engineer I understand that integrating components to allow for fewer, more robust parts is always the preferred option in terms of weight, strength, reliability.
If the market demands a super reliable, long travel dropper, (which it seems to if you read comments on bike forums) and the frame designer decides to go the “Eightpins” route, it is just one more constraint to have to design around. It may not be ideal for every situation, but many seat tube/rocker style rear suspensions can be designed with the necessary clearance for a long straight seat post. A thru bolt in the same location as the seat tube is not an absolute requirement. I admit, the tire clearance issue for longer travel 29ers with short chain stays is a bit tricky to design around, but not impossible.
On another note, what the internet wants and what it needs are entirely different. Unless you are riding a frame that is way to small no one needs a 220mm dropper.
That Transition Patrol you mentioned also has a thru bolt in the seat tube (talk about stress concentration).
I do agree with the fact that "needing" a 200+ mm travel dropper seems ridiculous. I'm perfectly happy with my 125 mm drop Transfer. I'm just playing devil's advocate here.
Manufacturers re-design their frames constantly as part of standard product evolution. I doubt they will initiate a re-design of their frame solely to accommodate a new dropper design, but I feel like they would be remiss to not even consider it as a part of the re-design process. If they can make it work without sacrificing more important things like geometry or suspension design, great. It would lend itself well to many VPP bikes (Santa Cruz, Intense). A good engineer enjoys a design challenge, but also knows when the juice isn't worth the squeeze.
In reference to your comment about how there are many standards the exist and depict frame design, many of those standards were created in order to aide the frame design. That's just about the only selling point of boost.
As far as design challenges go, that's exactly why I think this isn't the ideal solution. I think there has to be a way to get the reliability people want (I've never had issues with my reverb dropper though) without having to design an entire member of the frame around it. A good design challenge that moves technology forwards won't compromise on either end.
When other companies intergate parts = good
And if you hate the bike and like the dropper post you are pretty f*cked because I've heard that if people like something the industry will be like "Hey people actually like this product; We should definitely produce our own not as good variant of this product and sell it way more expensive than what the masses liked in the first place".
"The ultra-reliable D.O.S.S"
Thompson: "reliable, strong, low-maintenance seatpost that should remain trouble-free for multiple seasons"
Specialized: "Reliability is still the big issue for dropper seat posts, and if a dropper can prove its worth on that front, it's a winner in my books. The Command Post IRCC does exactly that."
"The Bachelor 150 works well and after six months is proving reliable"
Fox: I had it for 8 months and it broke. Same for a friend.
Giant: Good post
9Point8: Good post
Turbine and Easton: Good post not as well made as 9P8, better lever
Gravity Dropper: Crude but undestructable and good deal used
Lots of comments here about how this isn't a review, how did this win innovation of the year, etc. I have a serious question.
You mentioned the lack of play and ease of movement. I wonder how much of this is due to being integrated to the frame or simply being a bigger diameter and having less stiction on the seals, bigger air chamber etc. I.e, if we all settled on much larger seat tubes could we get the same effect? Because that's an idea I can get behind.
I also wouldn't take a Liteville to the park.
1. www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io1pbncZysM
2. www.facebook.com/Downhill24hours/videos/533707050160102
Thanks for the write up PB. I'll gladly read up on a MTB innovation over an article on what treachery the rest of the World dealt itself today.
Step 1: Remove the seat from your bike.
Also does this post have a shortened lower tube? The Eightpins' website mentions a "reduction tube" that the bushings residing in.
And if you happen to be happy about the bike, don't worry that half PB will be screaming that a bike for that kind of money ought to be made out of carbon, not aluminium .
Was this article written by complete idiot?
Pure advertising trick!
The Eightpins is innovative because the days of standard seat tubes should have been over the instant people started to say "I'm not going to use a standard seatpost ever again". The reason droppers are heavy, unreliable, high maintenance, sloppy and sticky is because a small tube with a clamp at the top is the absolute worst way to try and mount a dropper post to a frame.
This marks the first purpose-built frame (for a dropper) and Mike said it best: "This is how a dropper post is supposed to feel." That's because it was built without the huge compromise that is the standard seat tube with a top clamp. I bet we'll see incredibly reliable, cheap posts with huge service intervals if something like this becomes standardised.
Heaven forbid companies develop "standards" for integrating with different types.
At any rate, we have dozens of droppers on the market right now. If this is a successful innovation, I don't see why we also wouldn't have dozens of integrated designs. Who knows, maybe the bike manufacturers will contract Eight Pin to design their proprietary droppers. If anything comes of it, I think they'll learn to adapt to frames with curved seat stays, etc., as time goes on. They'll have to, or they're dead in the water.
Head movement killed them - does not affect the ride AT ALL
Ultra reliable and simple
Bad crash cracked the top seat clamp , no parts so now I have to enter the world of no wiggle - most important - and fuzzy reliability - very popular :-)
Side note: the populist complains about new standards, yet trips over ourselves when a new standard arrives from left field. Strange.
This is a way to let readers know about my initial impressions, since there aren't many people out there who have seen, let alone ridden a bike with this post.
It would require the re-anealing of an aluminum frame. It'd end up costing more than just buying a new frame.
Let's see what Specialized will bring along. Aren't their 2017 models equipped with a 34.9mm seattube?
"It goes up and it goes down, working for the clampdown!"
yes, i'm different