FOX's Advanced Product Group is free to develop any concept that it believes will have merit within the various branches of FOX's suspension divisions. Three years ago, APG went to work on an electronic suspension control system. FOX's cycling division already had the iCD electronic remote lockout (now called iRD) in production at the time, so they were no stranger to the concept of mixing batteries and buttons with shim stacks and hydraulic fluid. APG’s proposal, however, was the real deal: an automated suspension system capable of reading the terrain and attenuating the compression damping of both the fork and shock to optimize pedaling without interfering with the bike’s bump-leveling and traction performance. It’s called “Live Valve” and I was the first outsider that FOX allowed to ride it.“Blah blah fork mmmm blah Blah mmmm shock blah blah mmmm, suspension….” We’ve all heard those words before – so often that most readers skim over any text that mentions smooth suspension and firm pedaling in the same sentence. If you are as hardened to hype as I have become, I am sure that your Elvis had left the building half way through the first paragraph. But, you might want to pay attention to this report, because the APG group nailed it. Even if you are a hater of all things electric on a mountain bike, you will be hard pressed to come away from a trail ride on a Live Valve equipped bike with a negative comment – and FOX is still in the development stages with it.
| FOX is developing an electronic suspension system that instantly changes suspension modes based on terrain. It continuously maximizes pedaling efficiency and traction. The system switches to the most favorable mode automatically, ALL THE TIME. It can do what a human and an adjustment lever cannot do. FOX Press Release |
What is Live Valve?The heart of Live Valve is a low-speed compression damping valve that is controlled by a magnetic solenoid. The damping system has two positions: open and firm. The solenoid opens and closes a bypass circuit which can toggle the shock between either option in five milliseconds (.005 seconds). For comparison, a human eye-blink requires 300 milliseconds. FOX's solenoid uses very little power and it operates silently, unlike present electronic controls, which use motor-drives. The Live Valve module is the same interchangeable part for both the fork and shock, and it incorporates a mechanical low-speed compression adjustment so that the suspension can be tuned separately via an Allen key when it is in the open option.
Everet Ericksen, APB’s Engineering Manager was quick to point out that Live Valve is much more than a simple low-speed bypass circuit. Low speed compression is controlled by a more sophisticated and sensitive washer-stack, which can respond to a wider range of shaft speeds and bump amplitudes. The bypass circuit operates a servo piston that puts pressure on the valve stack to increase compression forces. This allows FOX to use a very small magnetic solenoid to control powerful hydraulic forces inside the suspension – and is also why Live Valve can respond with such astounding quickness
According to FOX, these are the basic functions of Live Valve:
• System selects between firm and soft damping; Two positions
• Suspension is normally firm
• When a bump is sensed by an accelerometer, suspension switches to soft mode and starts a timer
• If another bump is sensed before timer expires, system resets timer
• If timer expires and no more bumps encountered then it switches back to firm
• If accelerometer detects zero gravity for more than 25 milliseconds, then it goes into Freefall and opens suspension
• Front accelerometer opens the fork and shock; rear accelerometer opens the shock
How Live Valve WorksAcceleration sensors: Live Valve is controlled using accelerometers, one on the fork lowers and one on the swingarm near the rear axle that sense when the wheels contact a bump. The system defaults to firm until one of the accelerometers senses an impact (seven G in the normal setting). Because the wheel sensors are on the un-sprung side of the suspension, they sense the impact and unlock the compression damping before the rider can feel the bump. As mentioned, after the suspension is activated, a timer holds it open in anticipation of a second impact, if not, Live Valve returns to firm. The timer ensures that the suspension feels seamless over braking bumps or rocky, rooted terrain.
At present, accelerometers glued to the left chainstay and lower fork leg sense impacts. FOX may move it to the fork's arch.Threshold adjustments: Presently, there are eight levels of sensitivity built into the Live Valve system, which can be selected by cycling the mode button on the control module. Changing the system’s sensitivity increases or decreases the G-forces required to open the suspension. Select “one” and the suspension will be open most of the time. Select “eight” and the system will remain firm most of the time. The quickness of the Live Valve’s electronics, however, can maintain pedaling firmness throughout all eight levels to the degree that there is only a slight degradation in pedaling feel between the hardest and softest suspension options. Most riders will set Live Valve to the middle position, where it operates seamlessly, and then forget about it.
Dual action: Because the fork does most of the work, FOX programs Live Valve to open both the fork and shock when the front wheel sees an impact, so the shock is ready to receive the blow a moment after the fork does, and the chassis remains level. If the rear wheel contacts a bump separately, its accelerometer signals the shock to open separately. When either the fork or shock sense weightlessness, they automatically open, so that the suspension is cocked and ready to soften a drop or jump.
Dedicated shock: Presently, the Live Valve is encapsulated in an aluminum can that looks like a second reservoir attached to a FOX Float X shock. There was no talk about how FOX was going to incorporate the Live Valve into a standard in-line type Float shock. As it stands, the system requires the dedicated reservoir-style shock and, admittedly, with a reservoir on either side of the shock body, the Live Valve damper may not fit some frame configurations.
The Live valve will drop into any of FOX's 36, 34 and 32-millimeter Float forks, however, which means that the team has solved half of the problem. As mentioned, the Live Valve module is the same part for both the fork and shock, and that should make servicing and/or replacing the module an easy transaction for customers in need.
Long lasting battery: Live Valve’s lithium Ion battery is the same type and voltage as Shimano’s Di2 system. The FOX battery module is lighter, and while the Di2 battery can be concealed inside the frame, Live Valve’s module is external at present, because it contains mode controls and the on-off switch. FOX engineers say that the Live Valve solenoid requires very little amperage to operate and when not active, the system shuts down and goes into “sleep mode” until the bike is used again. Reportedly, Live Valve’s battery can run over 25 hours of actual riding time, depending upon which of the eight possible sensitivity settings you have chosen to ride in.
Isn’t Live Valve Just a Copy of Lapierre’s Ei system?Live Valve and Ei share some basic functions. Using the fork to signal the shock has been successfully proven by Lapierre’s Ei system, which relies upon an accelerometer on the fork slider exclusively to operate the shock. Ei’s low-speed compression valve, however, cannot be used to control the Lapierre’s fork, because the valve is controlled by an electric motor that doesn’t react quickly enough. Ei needs the lag time between when the fork and shock impact the same bump to get the shock open.
Lapierre's Ei Auto system uses bumps sensed by an accelerometer on the fork to trigger the shock to switch from locked to open.Conversely, FOX's Live Valve is quick enough to operate the fork in real time. Also, Lapierre’s Ei system senses crank RPM and opens the shock when the rider is coasting. FOX's Live Valve doesn’t need a cadence sensor, because it relies on its quick reaction time to keep the suspension working. Both systems use accelerometers placed on the un-sprung side of the frame to determine when the bike is weightless. In that situation, Ei opens the shock only, while Live Valve opens both the shock and fork.
The Four-Wheel VersionLive Valve was developed in house by FOX's Advanced Product Group, including the electronic components (with some help from friends in nearby Silicon Valley) – and it is not exclusively a cycling product. FOX's motorsports wing has also been developing Live Valve for high-performance side-by-side UTVs. We had the chance to drive a Live Valve equipped UTV on FOX's test track in Scotts Valley and, while we can’t name names, we can say that the car is going to be a game-changer in that marketplace.
Live Valve stabilizes the car’s ride height and keeps it level while the suspension is pounding over bumps. It also levels the car while braking, steering, or accelerating, but its most important benefit is that Live Valve can eliminate body roll without adversely affecting the car’s suspension action. Push a button and the increase in its cornering ability is laughably better. With Live Valve, the UTV’s suspension and anti-roll devices can be set softer, so by switching Live Valve off or on, the same vehicle can be used for rock crawling, where each corner of the car must operate independently, or high-speed desert racing, where the car must absolutely maintain ride height and stability.
| The Kona could be pedaled efficiently from a variety of positions over the chassis - standing, seated, fore, or aft - and with each thrust, the bike would squirt forward without the persistent mush that we have learned to accept from this genre. |
FOX chose a Kona Process to showcase its Live Valve system, because the 134-millimeter-travel Kona’s suspension performance is biased more towards descending and technical handling than it favors pedaling performance. It must be noted that Live Valve is positioned as a "probable" 2017 release, and it is still in the development stages. Presently, ts wires are external, its accelerometers are glued onto the frame and fork, and the first-gen operating module is sure to be slimmed down as FOX nears serial production. FOX says that production wiring will be internal and that the team is presently evaluating Live Valve’s range of adjustment, but functionally, the system is very close to how it will perform in its final form.
Initial setup: When Live Valve is switched off, it defaults to "open," so setting up the Kona was the same as doing so with a conventional shock and fork. After you have properly tuned your fork and shock, switch on Live Valve, select your bump-threshold option and go ride. The Live Valve module has a low-speed compression feature controlled by an Allen screw and, like the solenoid, it also activates the servo piston that bears down on the compression shim stack. That means small adjustments will make a big difference in the damping forces. I had FOX's suspension guys set the bike up for me to establish a base line, which worked out to 25-percent sag for the fork and 30-percent for the shock, with the rebound set slightly on the quick side of the spectrum.
How threshold settings work: The eight bump threshold options alter the point at which the suspension is asked to open up. Live Valve is presently optimized to open the suspension when the accelerometers see an impact greater than seven G in the number four setting. Raising or lowering the bump threshold simply changes the G-forces required to open the shock or fork. Pushing the threshold button once on the control module causes an LED to flash the number you had previously selected: four flashes means level four. After the report you can then push the button from one to eight times in succession to reset the threshold. Because Live Valve has a timer, lower threshold settings will naturally keep the suspension open for longer time intervals.
Game on: FOX arranged a short lap in the coastal redwoods near Santa Cruz that had all the basic trail challenges: braking bumps, a punchy hill-climb, some small jumps, a twisty flow section, and the requisite smattering of rocks and roots. The idea was to first burn a couple of laps with Live Valve turned off. We would then switch it on and ride the following rotations to evaluate the suspension’s performance at bump-sensor threshold settings between one and eight.
How it feels: Live Valve is almost completely transparent and brilliantly effective. Set at four or five, in the middle of the bump-sensor range, it transformed the Kona Process from a reasonably good climber, into a surprisingly good one. Without climbing aids, long-travel trail bikes drag their butts uphill as the rider’s weight transfers to the softly-sprung rear suspension. Live Valve’s persistent low-speed compression boost keeps the chassis riding level and, while it is stabilizing the bike’s ride height, Live Valve also produces a wonderfully firm feel at the pedals. The Kona could be pedaled efficiently from a variety of positions over the chassis - standing, seated, fore, or aft – and with each thrust, the bike would squirt forward without the persistent mush that we have learned to accept from this genre.
At this point, you may be thinking: “No big deal there. I can get the same results by flipping the pedal platform lever of any shock and fork.”
Of course, any suspension equipped with a manual low-speed compression booster can also stabilize the bike’s ride height and produce a firm feel under power, but all that firmness comes at the expense of a harsh-riding bike. For that reason, manual platform damping thresholds are set lower than optimum, as a compromise between pedaling effectiveness and emergency suspension action.
Suspension action: The beauty of the Kona Process is its balanced and supple feeling suspension, and Live Valve frees that suspension to smooth both the ups and downs without robbing a hint of its new-found pedaling performance. In fact, because Live Valve can open the suspension as it senses bumps, its pedal platform can be set to a much higher threshold than a manual system.
So, there I was, out of the saddle, riding up a climb across nested rocks and redwood roots, and the Process is just cruising through the mess as if the obstacles were plush toys. The advantage of Live Valve is less in its crisp acceleration and pedal feel as it is in its ability to keep the suspension working. Every bump event that bounces the bike upwards converts forward momentum into wasted upward acceleration. The short version is that the Kona was faster everywhere on the course with Live Valve switched on.
Thresholds: Riding the system in bump threshold settings from one to six seemed to deliver a supple ride, and as far as pedaling efficiency goes, it was a very similar feel under power, with very little drop-off at the lowest thresholds. Above six, the suspension’s small-bump performance began to become increasingly harsh until at eight, the Kona’s low-amplitude harshness felt like a 100-millimeter racing bike. At pace, when Live Valve kept the Kona’s suspension open much of the time, the harshness could only be sensed in the highest two options. At six or below, the transitions between firm and open were seamless.
New ways of thinking: That said, Live Valve does not change your pre-set suspension setup. If you pump your air springs to their bursting points and run your low-speed compression adjustment in almost all the way, when Live Valve opens up your fork and shock, it will ride just as harshly as you set it up in the first place. To take full advantage of FOX's electronic controls, one needs to separate the bike’s suspension action from its pedaling performance.
| I found that I could use softer spring settings. Live Valve automatically maintained the bike at my chosen ride height, so there seemed to be more suspension travel available to handle terrain. |
Live Valve allows you to tune the fork and shock for the ride ahead without any consideration for pedaling efficiency. In my case, that meant my Kona could be tuned for descending, with softer shock and slightly firmer fork settings. I could enjoy the downs as if I was shuttling gravity runs because I could depend upon Live Valve to sort out the Process’s pedaling action when the fun ended and the ascents began. I found that I could use softer spring settings. Live Valve automatically maintained the bike at my chosen ride height, so there seemed to be more suspension travel available to handle terrain.
Possible downsides: The obvious issue with adding a battery powered system to your suspension is that a dead battery could be game over. FOX says that Live Valve requires so little power to operate that its time between charges is two to three times greater than Shimano’s long-running Di2 drivetrain. If the Live Valve’s lights do go dim, the system is programmed to warn the rider withan amber light and then default to "open," so your ride home will not favor the climbs. If you break a wire, or damage a module, Live Valve will remain where it was at the time, so you have a fifty-fifty chance; firm or soft.
As mentioned, Live Valve can be fitted to most any FOX 34 fork at present, but the shock must be a dedicated design. That, and because the present Live Valve reservoir is a bulky protuberance, we expect that Live Valve will only be available as an OEM product until FOX gets its fitment issues sorted.
Maintenance and replacement should not be a burning issue, because the actual valve module is the same part for both fork and shock – so Live Valve essentially has two parts: the control module and the valve module. We imagine a scenario where FOX simply swaps out the suspect module in a warranty situation, so returning the bike to action would be plug and play, more or less.
Finally, Shimano and FOX may have teamed up on its iCD system (the FOX iCD remote lockout plugs into and uses the same e-Tube wiring and battery as Shimano Di2), but at present, Shimano and Fox are still negotiating Live Valve, presumably, because Shimano may have reservations that a second battery draw to compromise the burn time of its Di2 components. In a wose case situation, Di2, riders who want electric shifting and electric suspension controls will need to keep and charge two batteries on one bike – which no doubt will seem foolish and wasteful to most. We anticipate the two will reach an accord, otherwise, it will become an either/or situation between Shimano and FOX, and if I had to choose today, I’d pick FOX.
First Impression: | Bottom line is that Live Valve does exactly what FOX advertised it would - it allows the bike to be pedaled firmly and efficiently while at the same time, it uncouples the suspension to operate at its highest performance level. Many will argue that batteries have no place on a mountain bike's suspension, but Live Valve's straight up performance will silence most naysayers after one ride. The ramifications of Live Valve, however, reach much further into the sport than its ability to deliver riders the two most important components of off road cycling at the same time. Live Valve has the potential to uncouple suspension kinematics from pedaling dynamics. In short: by adding Live Valve, mountain bike designers can then optimize the suspension without compromising its kinematics in order to boost pedaling firmness. Considering that every popular suspension at present is a compromise between pedaling and acceleration, FOX's Live Valve may inadvertently become a revolutionary tool for next-gen frame designers. Only time will tell. - RC |
View more Live Valve images in the First Look Gallery
MENTIONS @foxracingshox,
@Lapierre-Bikes
Call me what you want but that's my reasoning. This kind of technology would allow you to have a longer travel bike that would climb like a lower travel bike(if you used a high threshold setting) This kind of sounds like the chainring/cassette size argument.
Youre done riding for the day, bring your bike inside (in the garage, out on the porch, wherever that is not still on your car to get stolen) and you plug it in.
I am pretty sure that is it, if a "hassle" to you is spending the extra 5 seconds to grab a wire off the floor and connect it to your bike, then you are in the wrong sport my friend.
Escape from technology? On a 5000$ DH rig, sounds a little ironic to me. Please stop with this absurd argument, everything we use, eat, wear or interact with everyday exist because of technological advancement. This electronic shock isn't more technologically advanced than a recent Downhill carbon frame, only difference is the "electronic" part.
This seems very similar in function to any ABS system on cars. Also, many sports car these days have active dampening suspension that reacts to road surface and driver inputs so FOX didn't get that from the Aliens (unfortunately). But seriously this feels like the proper way forward, actually making the suspension outperform the current offering, great step forward in my books.
P.S: With today's lithium batteries, energy's gonna be plentiful and for a long time, way longer than any day out anyway.
Last I checked I do t have any batter
Last I checked I don't have any batteries on my bike. Please igonore previous comment I accidentally posted before I finished.
~That's what she said!!
sports.vice.com/ca/article/cyclings-dirtiest-drug
On another note: Man, I totally forgot about the Specialized Brain.
Increasing compression when un-needed and within .005 milliseconds opening for bump compliance is pretty cool way to have the best of both worlds at the same time.
www.unwinded.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/amish.jpg
* - I don't know, my shock went crazy, locked on the landing and sent me OTB !!!!
That is all.
KERS would be my best friend at the end of a long ride
www.youtube.com/watch?v=fq3o0VGUh50
Did you see the blade move?
The energy recovery idea would be cool, as long as its not rattley.
But for now it's like an electronic CTD, so as the CTD isn't best thing in the world, I'll wait before switching to electronic suspensions. (and I don't like batteries).
I would bet that they have already tried and tested other algorithms. Fox are only a small company so will not have access to the vast R&D resources that development companies have.
They are only adjusting the low speed currently, if this is like the CCDB CS then this adjusts low speed compression and rebound speed which would be good. I would not say that Pinkbike is the place to speculate on what they are or are not doing or what they may do in the future. I don't work for Fox as a development engineer, I bet that doing some feasibility testing is more fun than feasibility, characterization and design verification testing that I get to do though.
Anyone in the "not on my bike" crowd is foolish...and you know when it'll become apparent? When you're getting stomped at races because everyone else is running a much more efficient bike.
UK car magazines are the worst for this type of crappy arbitrary review. I was reading a review of a car where he complained that it felt like the chassis just wasn't stiff enough in the tight twisty stuff. Same car was then scientifically tested in Auto Motor und Sport (a german magazine) where it was discovered to be 50% more rigid than the car (a BMW) that Autocar described as being in another league. Ie. The UK magazine said the BMW was best simply because it was a BMW and had a reputation/image.
Oh and the new Jaguar (any new Jaguar) will invariably be a "German beater" upon release.
So how long before someone offers a bike with electronically controlled fork, shock and gearing all tied into a GPS that reads the topo data for the trail you're on as well as getting feedback from your heart rate monitor so it can adjust itself accordingly?
Also, some people (me, anyway) neither has nor wants a heart rate monitor, and heart rate is also not an accurate indicator of what the bike is doing (doesn't change fast enough to be useful, for one thing).
Can someone explain why you would need a shock to adjust between descending and climbing? ;-)
In this day and age, with how good rear shocks have become and the platforms they include for firming up an active suspension while climbing I do not understand trying to sell a suspension design that does that. You will lose out somewhere. If it climbs great it likely will not descend great and vice versa.
If you want it firmer for the climbs: flip a switch. Fox is taking care of all of this for us.
I don't think anyone is going to argue that. As for DW link it's climbing capabilities felt a tad better than its descending qualities when I rode the Mach 6. It was still one of the ore stable descenders I had ridden but coming from all Kona bikes it definitely wasn't as plush as I was used to so the ride was a little harsher than what I was used to.
Either way, the DW link suspension design is one of the best if not the best link designs on the market right now. Might not be for everyone but it ticks a lot more boxes than others.
AND OR
With a dive, your CSU is diving into your lowers whereas a hit is pushing your lowers up towards your CSU?
Say there is a bump in front of you and you are braking. Before you hit the bump, Live Valve has been closed, the fork is not diving. Now, the accelerometer senses the bump and opens the fork's compression damping, but because the fork lower (along with the wheel) is being rapidly accelerated upwards by the bump towards the rider's body mass, the fork is being compressed, but the bike remains level. There is no brake dive, because the tendency for the rider's mass to push the front of the bike down under braking is being countered by the vertical acceleration created by the bump, which is trying to lift the front of the bike upwards.
In the same manner, bump impacts create a lifting force at the rear of the bike while climbing, which becomes an opposing force that prevents the bike from sagging into its rear travel when Live Valve opens to absorb the impact.
zephxii got it right in his second sentence
Hope that helps,
RC
"Coat please".
One thing though what I would like to see with these electronic gadgets on bicycles, is ONE standardised power supply and/or communication bus between the devices. Electronic stuff is eventually coming more and more, and if there would be one standard, at least for the power supply, it would make it possible to embed wires inside frames so there would be no need for a millon new wires... Battery is anyway just a battery, it can be built in various shapes and sizes and easily hidden inside frames etc... Communication on the other hand can be made with wireless technologies, although those might have some downsides too...
The future looks so bright... (XD)
I think crazy clever superbikes will drive the simpler markets too.. Who can argue with the antidote to all this? Hardtail, single speed, simple suspension, done. Straight back to why we all started out... Dealing with bumps. The connection to the ground. Not just tear-assing across it as fast as possible. Obviously that's fun too.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_suspension
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df2mM5jP1W0
www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8sVDenpPOE
-It could open up a meter or two before you hit the rock garden and then tighten up immediately again after.
-You could put it in learn mode along with your garmin connection to map a trail's "roughness" and then share the tracks for local trails. I bet after 20-50 passes of aggregate data you would have a pretty good idea of where the shock should be doing what.
I rode the LaPierre and thought it bit. Clicky clacky and the mode transitions were jarring. It was firm to climb but the two modes felt out of sync to me.
Question: This system has a far faster response, with rapid transition can it emulate all the damper settings between the two extremes?
Something that bugs me about the accelerometer based system is that there doesn't seem to be enough info.
For example it can't predict what is needed in the near future, only what is under the bike right now. A medium step followed by flat can be fully absorbed and rebound can be slow, but a medium step followed by a big step the rebound needs to be fast and there must be compression damping. With fork accelerometer there's only the now (at least for front wheel.) Seems like there needs to be lasers or a camera reading the trail ahead in order to correctly strategize the dampers?
Isn't (bike) velocity needed in order to calculate the delay for rear shock adjustment? Otherwise if you're going faster or slower the adjustments will be out of sync?
Why isn't power to crank also needed? If you know significant power is being applied by rider then you should more aggressively stiffen the platform.
Anyway, still not sure I want batteries and a computer on my bike but still would love to try it.
PS: On the use of the word "protuberance"... you happen to be a zappa fan?
1. Scanning the trail ahead with lasers/ a camera—definitely a next step. Mercedes Benz uses it in its cars. They call it "Magic Body Control."
2. Crank power seems like a useful variable to me, too. I'm sure they could figure out some sort of algorithm to make use of this data.
While this electronic stuff is nice, it is one more thing to break. Electronic shifting replaces something - this electronic suspension adds complexity to already failure prone, fragile, service intense shocks. I will pass for now.
Just got my Pike and Float X back from a rebuild.
Just this AM I got done rushing to replace my failed PF92 Bearings on a BB less than 2 seasons old so I can squeeze a ride in after work.
Seems like I'm forever fixing my bikes! Let's make'm better, not fancier.
Initial setup? Take your chain off & do neko and gwin laps.
I'll be most excited about this technology when an electronic seatpost is integrated!
Because these ARE going to be expensive...
Di2 lasts a f*ck ton longer than 25 hours, much less 1/2 or 1/3 that amount. Pinkbike not proofing their articles as usual.
Obviously hills (front derailleur usage) have a big impact but a quick google search says that 600-1500 miles is normal. Still seems like wayyy longer than 25 hours.
Trail is Emma McCrary, right? Emma is a nice MUT with some great swoopiness but lacks in the steep/rooty/rocky/drops.
I'm wondering if you rode any of the steeper more natural terrain right in the same area. And if so, can you comment on where the shock performed best?
No step motors. Just a rod in a coil that works as a plunger to increase the pressure in the dampening circuit.
If the battery fails there is a 50/50 chance you will have a suspension with too much compression damp.
But you could still ride the bike so not the end of the world.
Would i use it? .
Nah.
Will the suspension firm up for rider inputs?
If you can pump into a roller like a DJ bike and hit a rock garden like a full suspension that would be more interesting to me than improving pedalling performance
On the flip side, not having to mess with the compression switch on my horst link bike so it doesn't bob while I'm climbing would be amazing!!!!
All you fancy people with your fancy bikes. Was at Costco the other day and they have these Motiv bikes selling for $400. FOR A BIKE! Are you kidding me?! Back in my day a bike cost $34 down at Big 5 or Farmer John's Hay & Feed Supply Store. You gotta keep biking old school, brah.
Okay, gotta go, taking my 2017 Porsche 918 Spyder to get detailed...
How do you charge if you're out on some trip where you won't be back the next day? There's nothing wrong with levers. This gadget can't know what kind of terrain you're riding into. More weight, more hassle, more complexity, more stupid shit that no one needs.
www.neebu.net/~khuon/cycling/bikes/K2/1999-OzM/smartshock.html
That bothers me. If there's a manual override, then no problem.
*eye-blink*
Hm, yes! Check
B. Yess! More electronics on my bike!
I had the original iCD system on a BMC FS01 for several years. I ran it off 99% of the time b/c I actually liked my suspension to work.
The only trails this would benefit on are smooth XC trails. Firming your suspension only helps when the trail is smooth. otherwise, you want the suspension to remain active for grip.
A good suspension design like the one found on the YT capra will hold you up in the travel, even with the shock fully open, while still giving you immediate access to 170mm of travel.
Bottom line, you're still on fox suspension... maybe if they made a version of this for the 36 fork...but even then, you still have to deal with fox's garbage Float X shock.
iCD is just a way to make the lockout work fast enough front and back to make it more useful to racers. OBVIOUSLY if your not in the middle of a race, or trying to make your fasted time on a ride then you'd not be using a lockout much... why did you buy it? How did you think a quick on the fly front and back lockout was going to make your suspension work better? Why are you comparing a user activated lockout system to an automatic bump sensing compression adjustment?
Your next comment makes no sense. Smooth XC trails wouldn't do much to activate the Live Valve. (depending on which setting you have it on) So you'd stay in the firmer suspension mode most of the time. But since the trail is smooth why would you want or need to be in the open suspension mode? Therefore the Live Valve is doing exactly what it's supposed to be doing... A trail with more bumps, (the kind most people ride on with mountain bikes), the live valve would constantly be switching to the open mode with every bump or anytime your in the air. Which again, is what it does...
As far as the Capra, same comment I started with. Maybe YT figured out something Specialized never did in the last 15 years? But more likely shock technology has just as much if not more to do with the way the bike rides high in it's travel. Also, I've only seen one review even state anything about it riding high in it's travel? (If they didn't make such small bikes I already would have bought one!) IMO what makes the YT ride so awesome isn't because of the bikes "superior" suspension linkage. It's the top shelf suspension parts on there because their sales strategy allows people to afford much better parts than they are likely used to riding.
FOX, just like the other shock/fork manufacturers has good spells and bad spells. Their 2016 lineup so far has shown to be as great throughout the line as last years 36 was. (trickle down race tech is awesome!)