Push Industries is arguably the largest and most successful aftermarket suspension tuning business in the world, and after over two decades in business, founder Darren Murphy announced today that Push will sell its own shock. The Elevensix is a coil-over damper with a remote reservoir, and it is targeted at the all-mountain and enduro racing segment of the sport. While that market is dominated by air-sprung forks, Murphy says that his coil-over design is better suited for suspension designs with travel in the 140 to 160-millimeter range. Reportedly, the Elevensix weighs slightly more than its air-sprung competitors, but it is significantly lighter than any of their coil-sprung models. To ensure that the shock's damping rates and spring curves are spot on, Push will build every Elevensix shock as a custom order for an individual customer, who will then have access to the tech who assembled the order for future questions. Most everything outside or inside the Elevensix shock is manufactured at Push Industries' facility in Loveland, Colorado, and the few items which they out-source are also made in the USA with domestic materials. The MSRP of the Elevensix is $1200 USD. At present, Push has configurations to fit the Santa Cruz Nomad 27.5, Pivot's Mach 6, Yeti's SB66 and SB6C, Niner's WFO, the Ibis Mojo HD and the Banshee Rune. In case your bike wasn't on that list, Push is presently certifying the Intense Tracer 275, Ibis Mojo HD3, Giant Reign 275, Specialized Enduro 29, Transition patrol, Knolly Chilcotin, Norco Range and the Trek Slash.
| A complete Elevensix shock with a 450 pound-inch spring, ready to bolt onto a Santa Cruz Nomad, with a mount reducer kit is 825 grams. That's 135 grams lighter than a comparable Cane Creek DB Coil and 225 grams heavier than the CCDB Air in the same configuration. The Fox Float X and RockShox Monarch Debonair come in at approximately 425 grams in the same configuration. We feel confident in the fact that the performance gain far outweighs the weight penalty in this case. - Darren Murphy |
Key Tech Points:This bullet point list, taken directly from the Elevensix press release, outlines the key features of the new Push shock:• 100% Manufactured in Colorado at Push from only the finest domestically sourced raw materials.
• 100% of vendor components are domestically sourced.
• Each unit is hand assembled, vacuum bled, and dyno tested. Built custom to rider specification based on rider weight, riding style, and frame application
• Patent Pending "Dual Overhead Valve" design offers two completely decoupled ride characteristics that can be toggled between on-the-fly. For the first time riders can have
ultra plush and ultra firm suspension characteristics without compromise.
• Tool free external adjustments for low-speed rebound, low-speed compression, and high-speed compression.
• Parabolic low-speed needle design for both compression and rebound eliminates the “gap” found in production MTB shock external adjustments.
• Exclusive HyperCo ultralight suspension spring, available in 25lb/in increments. Made from high tensile spring alloy and featuring Optimum Body Diameter technology,
eliminating spring deflection and body wear.
• Next-generation digressive damping characteristic from compression valves provides incredible traction and control while allowing for through-travel on square impacts.
• High volume oil and nitrogen reservoir for fade-free performance.
• Built using premium Maxima shock fluids.
• Exclusive 360-degree spring capture and bump stop cup eliminates extrusion of bumper under extreme bottoming loads and ensures proper spring alignment.
• Weight: Approximately 850 grams, ready to install
• MSRP: $1200 USD
• Contact:
Push Industries
The HyperCo spring is wider in the center to prevent it from rubbing against the damper.
Interview: Darren Murphy - Founder, Push Industries
Push industries has been tuning and servicing mountain bike suspension forks and shocks since 2003, when founder Darren Murphy began with an 800 square-foot industrial space in Irvine, California, furnished with two bike stands, a roll-away toolbox, two work tables and a dozen plastic bins that contained a modest number of custom designed damping pistons, seals, shims needles and springs. I was lucky to be one of the first people that Darren trusted to reveal his plan to rebuild Fox shocks and provide a custom tuning service that would tailor the shock's performance to the individual rider, as well as to the idiosyncrasies of the many suspension designs of that pioneering era.
Every dollar that Murphy possessed was in those tiny little plastic bins and I couldn't help thinking about how risky it seemed to bank on the possibility that riders would box up their forks and shocks and send them to a virtual unknown, who would then charge a decent sum in exchange for his promise that the items would perform noticeably better when they were returned. Darren is gifted with an uncanny understanding of how suspension works, and he made good on his promises. Based upon word-of-mouth alone, Push Industries, now based in Colorado, grew into a worldwide business in just one decade. Using custom parts they design and manufacture in house, Darren says Push has tuned or serviced over thirty thousand shocks and forks. We interviewed the man himself to the get the back-story on Push industries and the factors which led him to develop the Elevensix shock.
- RC Where did you get your start in the bicycle suspension business?My first job was with Marzocchi back in ‘95. Back then, MTB suspension development was on fire. I still remember going over to Bryson’s house and having him pull out the first Z1 Bomber prototype from a bike that he brought back from Italy. We put the bike together and myself, Jim Mahan, and Bryson rode around smashing curbs and stairs. At that point I knew MTB suspension was going to be big.
When and why did you launch Push Industries?My wife and I started PUSH in 2003 in Irvine, California. The business model had been proven in the motorcycle industry and I felt would be a great asset to riders in the MTB world. I started out servicing and tuning the Fox Vanilla coil series, offering a line of engineered and machined tuning parts that would allow me to customize suspension to meet the expectation of niche riders. Having worked on the manufacturer’s side, I understood some of the challenges and limitations that existed for the big brands in regards to working directly with the end consumer. After speaking with a few industry colleagues and putting together an initial plan, we went to work.
Who is your basic customer, and what is the type of service that is most asked for?Two types really. The first are riders that have exhausted their efforts trying to get a certain ride quality out of their stock suspension. These types of riders don’t fit the mold of the “average rider” as determined by product managers or they have a certain expectation of what they want out of their bike. The second are riders who are in need of service on their fork or shock and make the decision to have it tuned more specifically for their riding style instead of just a standard service. By far, the riders coming to us are looking at tuning options, not just service.
What is your estimate for the number of forks and shocks Push Industries has worked on over the years?Haha! That’s not one that I normally get! I can say that there’s more than 30,000 PUSH Factory Tunes out there in the world. We’ve been very fortunate to have a very supportive customer base!
| By having two completely independent fully adjustable valves that you can toggle between on-the-fly, riders can not only have both a setting that is incredibly plush and extremely firm, but they get to define what those settings are ultimately to meet their individual needs. |
What did you learn from over 21 years of servicing suspension that led you to design your own shock?We learned that riders want something that is user friendly, durable, and has simple adjustments. We’ve built a ton of technology into Elevensix, but the one that stands out the most is our patent-pending Dual Overhead Valve system. This technology was developed as a direct response to customer feedback. In this day and age of on-the-fly adjustable suspension, riders are looking for something that doesn’t compromise. With all of the current shocks in the marketplace, the quick adjust compression lever is tied to the overall compression damping level in the shock. This means that both product managers at bike companies and tuners such as ourselves, must settle on a compression setting that offers good bump sensitivity while still having firmness when the lever is flipped. The reality is that firm pedaling settings with the lever on, means a reduction in small bump sensitivity and vice versa. This also means that the rider is locked into a certain range that they can’t adjust themselves. With Elevensix we’ve eliminated that compromise. By having two completely independent fully adjustable valves that you can toggle between on-the-fly, riders can not only have both a setting that is incredibly plush and extremely firm, but they get to define what those settings are ultimately to meet their individual needs.
Why a coil-over design, when air-sprung shocks are widely accepted and more adaptable to different rider weights and suspension curves? Performance. We were specifically targeting the 140-165mm travel bikes and in that category coil shocks have significant advantages. We won’t be stocking any complete shocks, just parts kits. This is because each shock will be hand assembled by one of our technicians one at a time to customer spec taking into consideration rider weight, riding style, and leverage characteristic. This ensures that each rider gets the right setup for their bike.
Where does your shock fit into the marketplace? Will you be selling only to aftermarket customers, or will you also be seeking OEM sales?Initially, production of the shock is going to be very limited, and for that reason we are limited to aftermarket only for now. OEM is something we’re exploring with several interested manufacturers.
What features does the new shock have that might set it apart from a reservoir shock from Cane Creek, RockShox or Fox?Certainly the technology, but also the process. As I already mentioned, our Dual Overhead Valve system is unique in the fact that it gives riders two completely user-adjustable, independent shock settings that can be toggled on the fly. Additionally, this can all be done without tools. Another key technology is the use of parabolic needles for all of our external low speed adjusters to ensure a controlled, consistent change between clicks. We also have worked very closely with HyperCo, one of the world’s premiere suspension spring manufacturers in both the spring and spring retainer system. With this shock, we’re offering 25-pound increments in spring rate and a 2-pound spring tolerance. We also are taking advantage of HyperCo’s Optimum Body Technology and advancements in high performance spring alloys. For a given spring rate we’re between 100 and 200 grams lighter than a traditional MTB spring. With our spring and retainer system, we not only have eliminated unwanted spring rub on the shock body with a 360 degree capture of the spring ends, but have incorporated a bottoming bumper cup eliminating the extrusion of the bumper like in traditional slotted retainers. We’ve also added friction-reducing shaft and cylinder coatings, seal designs, asymmetric piston bolt, increased nitrogen and oil volume…..the list goes on.
| With all that being said, the one element that stands out the most is that we make it. Not just assemble it from parts sourced from both here and abroad ...we actually make it, starting with 100-percent US-sourced raw materials. |
With all that being said, the one element that stands out the most is that we make it. Not just assemble it from parts sourced from both here and abroad….we actually make it starting with 100-percent US-sourced raw materials. For parts that we don’t make such as springs, seals and glide rings, we utilize domestic vendors with whom we have built a close working relationship. From the initial design to laser marking the final product, it’s all done behind our doors in Colorado. We use state-of-the-art 3D CAD systems, and 3D CAM systems for all of our design, engineering, and CNC machine simulation. 100-percent of our machined parts are manufactured using the latest CNC technology from DMG/Mori, Citizen, and HAAS. We have complete on-board suspension data logging for all of our in-field testing as well as a custom built Roehrig Engineering EMA dynamometer that has trail playback capabilities as well as an additional Roehrig unit used for quality control.
As I mentioned, the product itself will be hand assembled and made custom to order, including vacuum bleeding and finally dyno testing to ensure the build quality. Each customer will then get a settings card, dyno report, and technician phone extension and email address as a point of contact. Who better to help you with your product than the person who’s logged thousands of miles on one, was involved in the development, and built it with their own hands?
Besides the damping controls, did you include any other features like needle bearings in the spring collars or eyelets? The shock does have a built in polymer spring bearing and will come ready to bolt up to the bike with our 5pc sealed polymer mount bushing kit. Both of these items are extremely durable and increase small bump sensitivity.
Are there any fit-up issues for some of the most popular AM/enduro models? At this point we’re limiting sales of Elevensix to those bikes for which we have a fully developed application, instead of just selling a shock to someone because it’s the correct size for their bike. For that reason we don’t currently have any known fit issues.
How does Push Industries plan on supporting the new shock – warranty issues, rebuilds, on-line tutorials, etc?All warranty concerns as well as service will be handled directly through PUSH or one of our Factory Tuning Centers. We will be coming out with a “Tech Tuesday” series of online videos where we’ll discuss setup, installation, and technology. Due to the complex nature of the damper, we won’t be providing tools or materials for consumer service unfortunately.
Will you be selling through dealers or directly through Push Industries?The shock will be available directly from PUSH as well as our Factory Tuning Center partners: TF Tuned in the UK, Suspension Experts in North Carolina, SuspensionWerx in Canada, and NS Dynamics in Australia. We also will be welcoming retailer sales here in the USA. Retailers can purchase directly from PUSH for their customers as well as their employees.
Is there a fork coming down the pipe any time soon?Hmmm…...that would be interesting wouldn’t it?
View high res and larger images in the gallery
My $450 CCDB Air CS will do the job just fine. I love Push, but I don't need to feel the ants I'm running over on track.
(And still much heavier)
I don't deny push makes a high quality product. Hell it even may be better than anything else on the market but when it costs twice as much as it's competition while the difference on this level is marginal it makes no sense. Also the production process makes no sense. It's cool that they hand assemble it for every user but outside of making you "feel like a pimp" it makes little sense.
That being said, I also can't afford one but sure wish I could!
it doesn't completely sound out of line considering this is as close to 100% USA made as it gets (sourcing raw materials domestically whaaa?) new product from a small company
and it is fully custom built for every customer...
The RS-1 migh have more exotic materials and more materials, but it's got a giant company behind it and I would say it's in the same price range...
And I'd take this shock over an RS-1 any day.
the 160 travel market makes sense since it is the biggest group and fastest evolving in terms of design. riders are pushing these bikes pretty far
Unless you be rich.
There will be a generic lay out for 4 bar bikes , a generic layout for single pivots and so on with only tiny differences between them in terms of rider weight , most of the ' bespoke ' settings will be achieved through turning the dials and using the correct sprig weight , much like any other shock out there.
Getting a shock tuned before you have ridden it is a bit of a fallacy anyway , I mean when asked about riding style , I bet most people are not honest
I wonder how many people say " well I mostly ride red/blues and drag my brakes most of the way while casing half the jumps" , very few I expect , most will go for the ' hard/aggressive option ' , either answer is so relative and subjective that the best any company can offer you from only the written word is a base tune for your weight.
The 1200 dollar price point is expensive and I would probably never own one of these. However, think about the number of riders out there trying to replace a number of bikes in their quiver with just 1 "Enduro" bike...especially the 160 mm travel options (which this shock covers). Now I am not saying this shock is going to turn your enduro bike into a full on DH rig but I bet with a custom tune it would make the bike much more capable than the stock setup...especially if you share your riding style with Push.
I feel like this shock is marketed correctly at 1200 bucks. I mean based on all the things I read about the industry, this shock is marketed to someone who maybe only owns an enduro bike or competes on an enduro bike but also wants to do shuttle runs with said enduro bike without having to shell out the cake for a full on DH rig (where even an entry level bike will cost north of 3K).
I mean, if I only had an enduro bike and wanted to make it as versatile as possible for light DH and competitive enduro...I would seriously consider buying one of these things to avoid having to purchase a whole new niche bike at double the cost.
It's a bespoke product made to order for high end racer's bikes, who likely won't be footing the bill themselves.
Nobody claimed the product to be 'affordable', so stop bitching and whining. It is what it is, and if you don't like it, don't buy it. Simples.
Although it is always becoming for a student to insult other people on the internets... your other posts make you just another troll.
If you are not racing competitively or don't have a ton of money to burn, then keep enjoying your air shock. That doesn't hurt your wallet any. But don't complain about this option being available for others.
What we need to see now is how well it works. Cane Creek's climb switch adjusts low speed compression and low speed rebound. This adjusts low and high speed compression, not rebound. What will have a better affect? Only heard good things about CC's Climb Switch.
And, if you recall Cane Creek initially hand built every DB coil to order. I wasn't on the PB boards back then, though I'd be surprised if there wasn't a matching response to both the pricing and cottage industry manufacturing approach. If PUSH isn't sure they're gonna move volume on these, and the price alone will block a huge part of riders, then it actually makes a ton of sense to assemble on-demand. Basic lean manufacturing in action there...
That all said, if I were in the position to build up a $10K+ custom bike, why not? I'd rather see suspension performance go this direction than something that requires a battery. Then again, I supposed we all have our luddite tendencies
@sam264 we are not bitching. Any internet post is subject to critique. If PUSH is to function as a company someone has to pay MSRP. They need to sell products. So the critique is well warrantied.
Also a ton of people on the custom hype train tend to forget that most of the riders, even pros can't describe their riding style properly.
@WasatchEnduro I9 Wheelset isn't 2x as expensive as any comparable product.
My point is - why would you buy the most expensive suit? I can have a bespoke suit for $1200 that's going to do the job as well as yours for $12000. Few months ago my tailor made me a cashmere trench coat for €650 - if I gave you a similar €2000 Armani coat, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be able to tell which one is more expensive (and definitely not three times).
In other words, once you reach a certain limit, increases in price will stop resulting in noticeable increases in quality (many times it's only a placebo effect - you know you have the most expensive thing so you convince yourself that it's also the best one and it was worth the money).
@bigburd, how can you say the price is unjustified? have you ridden one and compared it to what you think is the benchmark of justification? I believe knowing what it would cost to just copy the physical part here, not even saying it would function at all, you would be over 3k. no questions asked, and the target buyer for this aside from the guys that just buy the best, is for the people that know their suspension and will totally justify the extra cash for quality and performace. so don't let your settling for the regular mislead others that top drawer stuff is not worth it, it usually is worth that and more!
@DARKSTAR63 you are right if you are willing to pay for every nut and bolt and the production method then it makes sense. That's how people should justify it. What I doubt is people thinking custom is the magic word that makes your shock 10x better.
I think part of the reason for the outrageously high price is that its made here in the US, which is fairly impressive, not too many companies do this any more. But what I think really drives the price up, and is also pretty rare in this day and age, is that ALL the materials are sourced domestically in the US. That has got to get them next to nothing, relative to what they could get for the same cost overseas. Plus you also get to speak with a tech that built your shock anytime, I would like more elaboration of what this includes, is it just about your shock if it has problems, or will they talk to you on the phone for an hour while you rip laps and make minor adjustments?
Those are some pretty unique and cool value added features, but I still don't think it justifies $1200. Sorry PUSH.
Someone above had a pretty good idea, and it would certainly justify the price more so than it currently is, and that was to have free lifetime servicing. I think that would certainly get some people on board with spending $1200 for a shock.
Let's be honest, Avalanche is located 20 minutes down the road. Plus they have human pricing not this "we want your first born child" crap. Lastly they use spectro fluids (way better).
Nobody is making assumptions about your financial situations, and we don't need to. Just the fact that you don't want to pay it because you feel that you can get all you need from an off-the-shelf product tells us all we need to know, and this is that you are not a target customer.
Clearly you don't know a great deal about business or manufacture. Short productions runs cost more than large batches. One-off bespoke work costs even more. I'll leave you to fill in the gaps there. The price is easily justified, and it's not that much more than a CCDB anyway.
Funny thing, people are willing to drop about $2k on decent front suspension, and while there's more metal in there, that doesn't necessarily mean that there's more engineering, and it certainly doesn't mean that it's more important. So why are the purse strings so tight when it comes to rear suspension?
Two compression damper, so txice the price of compression damping.
The parts are machined in the most complex way thinkable for a shock. Look at the part linking the shock body, the eyelet, the piggyback and the compression dampers. Way more complex than on other shocks I know. (Which are cast or forged most time).
And the spring alone cost 100$ (but 825g with these is not a light shock, same as my stoy with a sa spring)
Also it's nice you negrep Polish tailors but you can find craft anywhere and I'm talking about someone who has a successful shop in Moscow. I don't like big business Ruskies but one thing you can't say about them is that they like their suits cheap. Also Poland had a huge clothing and materials industry for a long time.
My sincerest apologies for pulling you away from being closed-minded and bashing products purely on the price being too expensive for you, with no actual regard for how the product actually performs....
@sam264 gets it and makes some pretty REASONABLE points.
I said my piece , some agreed , some didn't , continuing the debate was pointless , no ones opinions were gonna change so there was little point to carry on.
And do you really think it will be that much , if any better than what is currently available ?
And yes with out trying it no one can form a real fact based opinion , it's all speculation , would of thought that much was obvious as the product is not even in the market fully.
With out facts in time on paper showing that it actually is worth say 30 seconds per stage ( random number ) versus another top line shock it's all just chit chat from both us and from PUSH.
@faul just because you have 2 compression dampers does not mean it is twice the price, have you considered volume pricing? and you may be right, it is not such a high price solely because it says "made in the USA". but I would bet that much of that additional cost is due to being made here in the US and sourcing the materials here in the US. have you ever looked at CM's cost here vs. overseas? it is night and day, not as much as 5 years ago, but the price differential is pretty staggering.
Btw it's not a suit, it's a coat.
As for Ralph Lauren if you are using that company as a measure of quality you should not speak about fashion or the clothing industry.
btw. Still your fabric is cheap. Your coat costs less than it costs a good coatmaker to buy their fabric for a coat.
PS. Your argument is even more silly than saying cheap chinease carbon rims are the same quality as easton carbon wheels since both of them are made in Asia.
The Royal family buys the most expensive clothes not because they're best but because they don't want anyone else to wear the same thing. It reminds me a joke about two Russian oligarchs when one asks: "How much was your coat?" And the other answers "Five thousand dollars, but there's a new shop where you can buy it for six."
Also nope. Savile Row suits and coats are overpriced yes that is true but that still doesn't mean they aren't top quality. Also the italians have been making fabrics for coats for way longer than people of nepal because their cashmere was used for different purposes. Want an asian style coat, then yeah but I assume you are talking about western clothing products.
Also manufacturing Cashmere doesn't mean they are the best at making suits and coats or that they were making coats for that long. I assume you've bought a regular coat, not what sherpas wear. So if you want to go with heritage the british coats have a long tradition while the nepalease coats have no tradition.
Though I should cut it this - you know nothing of fabrics. Go to Pitti Uomo (basically the event with the most style on the planet) and ask how many guys there are dressed in coats like yours. I know it feels nice to be thinking you've got a great deal and by your own standards you did but if your goal was to buy a top quality bespoke coat with fabric made by masters and the coat itself was made by masters then you have failed miserably.
PS. I know nepal is not in china but production quality wise they are the same. Vietnam also isn't in china but bikes made in cheap factories in both countries are of similar build quality. How hard is to get that ?
It's like buying a graphics card for your PC; yes, if you look at the specs, the best card is GeForce Titan Z for €3000. But if you look at your screen, you won't see any difference between €3000 Titan Z and €300 GTX 970 because nobody can tell whether a game is running at 100 fps or 250 fps..
And the same thing applies to coats, shocks, everything. Products should be compared in real life, not on a paper or in a lab under a microscope.
Why is this :
www.avalanchedownhillracing.com/woodie.html
Twice as cheap compared to push?
I get that some people want your parts to be made locally a that logic aren't most of the commenters hipocrites if they don't own a locally made frame (not many of them in the US since even intense uses TW tubing. Devinci and who else is left?) and all other parts (kind of a problem with forks and tires)
On the other hand there is no proof genetically modified foods are harmful and scientists are areeing on that. We are just suspicious because we know how big food companies are making really bad really crappy food for us. Though that has little to do with GMO and more to do with the overal quality and cost cutting policy they use.
Though you are right about chemically induced growth. That's risky. Overall I try to buy food that woudl have been called organic 10 years ago. So no stupid labels, just something my grandma would think is fine but some GMO solutions are actually pretty neat (like GM rice to help with vitamine defficiency that happen in some parts of the world)
This is what people go to gear sites to see. The cool new shit that will eventually find it's way to cheaper bits.
The thing is, you can't compare this shock to the resi'd Kings on your truck. Instead, compare it to the completely custom king bypasses that BJ Baldwin is running on his race truck, and you'll see an apples to apples price comparison.
Heres a little photo reminder of what he's running:
i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--E3AkvdZ4--/18vw0uyjkr24fjpg.jpg
sadly, as awesome as king resi's are, they're nothing compared to a proper race set up (in both price and performance)
I think people need to understand that when they complain about the price of this shock. This is a TOP of the line product that not many people will ever need, and its priced accordingly. it isn't aimed at the general public.
i am still riding my 2003 cannondale jekyll with push tuned float RL Nice to learn they actually started that year..
This is just awesome.
But wowzers! That's one pricey shock.
The same happened to GoPro, once the 4 came out in the US for 340$, in Germany it was 480 Euro and the GoPro 3 Silver, once the 4 came out, went from 250 to 320 Euro. Prices, what you gonna' do!
Price wise I guess it's not that bad, even though I will never be able to afford it, but knowing how good Push are, they only do suspension, so the product will be very good
Also Avalanche is cheaper and also made in North America to custom spec.
I mainly see rich kids getting these, and I do mean kids ...which in term may actually be a good thing. With a shock like this, they will be like Chicago, blowing away trees from all that speed they're carrying down them ROOTS as they are on the never ending Quest for love a.k.a. that next big thing after the next big thing.
Damn, it felt good to write that last sentence!
Most DH bikes are designed around coil shocks, so of course an air shock is going to feel weird/crap regardless of reliability, if you just throw on the off the shelf model.
This is why there are shock tuning companies. If you are trying to put a coil shock on an bike designed around air, than the tuning comes into compensate for the different spring rates.
It's way harder to make a reliable air fork and I don't mean just one that doesn't fail but one that has constant performance. What's more a ton of them have wonky characteristic, especially forks. It's probably possible to make a quality 160mm+ air fork but I'm yet to try one that's as good as a coil in every way (not even better).
Also for DHX 5.0 being good - LOL. That shock has no damping.
Also I never suggested they are tools. I also never suggested anyone who rides mid range products is a tool. I just say there is a difference between products which you don't want to aknowledge just to look cool and keep your anti gear tirades on pb.
My Elka coil shock weights 900g with spring, and my CCDB air weights 530g.
So how is the claimed 850g "slightly more" than 530 and "significantly lighter" than 900??
So will they offer a free or heavily reduced lifetime tuning service. Cos if this shock is "all that" and at $1200 it should be, you may want to keep if for all the bikes you will ever have (depending on shock length of course) I damn sure wouldn't want to be buy a one new every time I changed rides.
Another Ultra 4/ Pirate member here...
I think BOS Stoy is a great option or even Marz Moto C2R. Neither have the "climb switch" for this category of bikes as they are DH specific, but cheaper and around the same weight. It's up to everyone to determine what they are willing to pay for what features they want to have.
For a fork, they will have 5 or maybe 6 settings, 1 or 2 that are used the most (because let's be honest, the majority of riders is around 70kg, and not an EWS champion) and then on request or necessity, a specific tune.
Same goes with the shocks, they have some basic tunes for most suspension designs (rising or falling ratio, weird one -like Nomads and some VPPs- linear, ...), and then a few variations depending on rider weight. And that's it ! And again, that's completely normal, it would just be a business killer to spend hours for every client.
And the result for the client is just perfect (I guess that if the client isn't completely happy they'll take the shock/fork back for some fine tuning).
Having only a few settings to work on isn't a thing to be ashamed of, they still spent hours and hours of testing to find these settings
Seriously I'm a suspension geek. I experiment with idiotic settings all the times, went through a few custom tuned products over the years and tbh you are seriously overhyping it. It will be a great product but not because it's super duper custom but because of the design itself so let's concentrate on that because it's what most of the commenters are mission and it's what they should be focusing on.
Also remember you can still have custom tunes without building a shock from scratch every time.
@Ploutre exactly. Most people ride similar terrain, have similar riding style and weigh around the same. It's nice that now everyone feels like that one special snowflake but the reality different.
Just think about it. One rider would have completely different settings for a Santa Cruz Nomad, GT Sanction, Yeti SB6c, SB5c, Ibis Mojo HD3, etc. etc. That's one rider, one weight, one skill level, just different bikes. A different tune will be needed for each based on travel and leverage ratio.
Now, multiple riders on the same bike. Different weights require different springs. Then compression and rebound settings need to be tuned based on that weight and spring. A 150lb rider, 170lb rider, 200lb rider, etc. will all need different settings.
Skill level and riding style are NOT the same. One pro level rider may charge into rocks and roots while another pro rider may weave through/around. One might expect the bike to plow straight through while the other want it to bounce over. On the other hand, skill level may relate to the riders speed and their ability to control the bike, use their weight to move it around, etc.
ALL of these factors are taken into account by any reputable motorcycle suspension tuner. Some even have riders come in to take measurements and personally talk to the rider. And it isn't uncommon for them to do a free second rebuild if it doesn't work perfect for you the first time.
If it was completely impossible for them to make any money doing it, how have they survived doing nothing BUT custom tuning forks and shocks for so long, just like in the moto industry?
Do you think the average MX rider changes his suspension setup for each and every track he goes to ? I'm talking about the guy doing a ride every week-end, with his mates. No he doesn't, he probably has his shop mechanic do the work, every X hours of riding his mx bike, and then he just enjoys the riding. If he wants more out of his suspension, then the mechanic may refer to the equivalent of Push in the MX world, and get the fork/shock tuned.
As for the factory/pro/semi-pro riders who do fiddle with their suspension, who need the best out of it, they have mechanics to do it. They can relate what they felt on the bike, where he thinks it would get better, and then the mechanic does his magic. Some kind of Push on the side of the track if you like. But that's just not what most of the mtb world does.
I still maintain that for every shock they have (of course, not many chances that you can reuse what you have done on a RS Kage onto a Fox RC4), they have a rather small amount of setting (and by setting I mean a compression piston, preload spring, needle, shim stack, ...) and eventually if the case requires it, alter it.
15 settings per bike is actually already too much. Think about it, say we have 100 frames on the market (way more, but whatever), about 10 different shocks on each frame (probably more), 15 settings ? that's already 15000 combinaisons of pistons, shimstacks, ... Just impossible to track this.
Instead the way things most likely are is that for every shock, they have say a dozen settings, and these settings will work for most frames you can have. Some frames that are completely different in design may end up with the very same setting if it fits. If I take the example of the Lapierre DH 2015, chances are the setting would be close to (if not the same as) the one on a RM Flatline from 2010 or a NS bike Fuzz DH (all 3 bikes are very progressive designs, with a leverage ratio pretty close).
I woudln't mind to have the opinion of Push (and not one from the marketing dpt that made this press release ...), but I'm pretty sure of what I wrote.
We should open a thread for that haha
(hope I haven't mixed up things writing the comment tho...)
The nice thing with Push making their own shock is they only have to worry about ONE piston and shaft design, unlike moto tuners.
No, I don't change my settings every time I go riding like a pro, but I also don't consider this shock to be a low end consumer product. This is high end, high performance for racing. If I raced competitively then I'd want the best, and having a custom setup shock will ALWAYS outperform some stock, average unit. And it will cost more.
As for skill and riding style not being the same but they are the same variable. The variable is riding style. If you have a low skill level you have a specific riding style. That's what influences the shock. The variables are 1. How and where you ride the bike (so the forces that will act on the wheel that change dynamically) 2. What's the bike (suspension wise and they are more similar from a shock standpoint than you think) 3. Your weight (also influences the forces acting on the wheel but it's mostly a constant)
Though I must say you are a perfect client for someone working in marketing like me. You belive in facts but you don't take into account how unimportant some of them are. That way a marketer doesn't have to lie, he just has to work with engineers to find nuggets of knowledge that make little difference outside of the lab (and sometimes no difference in the lab too but they look nice on the web page)
And why fully adjustable compression? It's made for a rider and a bike, so the only tuning needed is a low speed compression on the "plush" circuit.
1200$ is not cheap, if there were less knobs it would be less expensive and not less efficient.
The rebound don't seem to be affected by the "switch" lever? So a ccdb with climbswitch may be more efficient on the "firm" position.
The two settings and the spring desing are interesting things, but this shock is not on my wish list. A simpler version of it, cheaper, would be on the top of it.
Yes, I read that is it "custom" made. Yes, I read that it is made in the USA. Doesn't matter.
It is clear that demand does not exist to manufacture the product. Debuting at a price that accounts for the specificity of tooling, materials, and fantastically low demand is not how you better the brand/industry/sport/rider satisfaction.
But, this one looks much cooler than Stendec's.
$1200 for shock?!
Nuff said.