2013 FOX Suspension CTD Damper - First Ride

May 3, 2012
by Mike Levy  
 
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2013 is a big year for FOX, with a brand new addition to both their front and rear suspension in the shape of their CTD damper technology, as well as new 34 forks for 26'' wheels, slick shock mounting hardware, and the lightest fork chassis' that they've ever manufactured. We visited FOX just prior to Sea Otter in order to learn about and ride the new offerings firsthand, as well as tour both their Watsonville, California, factory and the new FOX building that is home to much of the R and D that ends up in production models after it's been proven under FOX's race team. You'll soon be able to read about both FOX facilites in an upcoming photo story, but in the meantime you can learn about the new CTD equipped forks and shocks shown below.

FOX 2013 camp
  We spent two days with FOX, with the first day consisting of shuttle runs that let us quickly get a feel for the new suspension by smashing out back to back runs on the same rocky trail - perfect for making changes to our setup and feeling the results firsthand. Oh, and one of the shuttle trucks just happened to be Ford's 400+ horsepower SVT Raptor, complete with FOX's triple internal bypass shocks that are manufactured in the same building as their mountain bike suspension.

FOX 2013 suspension Tallboy
  Day two was spent doing four laps of a short cross-country loop aboard Santa Cruz's much loved Tallboy, a good choice of steed given the mix of fast and smooth, and faster and rocky singletrack. The big wheeled bike was kitted out with the new CTD suspension front and rear, and FOX equipped the bikes with CTD remotes for the second half of the day in order for us to experience the new bar-mounted controls.


What is CTD?

You'll spot the CTD acronym - short for Climb, Trail, Descend - throughout a large portion of FOX's 2013 lineup, including every single 32 and 34 fork model except for one lonely Terralogic 32 holdout. That large commitment is part of FOX's push to simplify and integrate their front and rear suspension, as well as bring the new D.O.S.S. post into that same fold. The CTD system, found on both forks and shocks, consists of three differing compression settings that can be adjusted on the fly, allowing riders to adjust the firmness of their suspension to best suit the terrain. While the Climb, Trail, and Descend designations certainly outline the concept of the system - the firmer Climb mode for climbing, the middle Trail mode for varying terrain, and the most open Descend mode for maximum suspension activity - we can see many riders finding themselves using each setting in other scenarios. For example, the wide open Descend mode could be used to help lower front end ride height on steep climbs, especially on non-Talas fork models. FOX says that the three position CTD system brings a level of factory tuning to the consumer by giving them quick and easy access to different levels of compression tuning with the turn of a dial instead of having to send their suspension in for a re-valve, or memorize multiple dial positions on a more standard layout.

One possible plus to the system that needs to be mentioned is how riders should be able to easily find the proper suspension balance between the front and rear ends of a CTD equipped bike. Assuming that the spring rates are correct for the fork and shock, having both ends set to the same mode will ensure a level of symmetry front to back when talking about compression, a major factor in creating a stable and predictable ride. It is for this very reason that both the fork and shock rebound and CTD dials feature the same amount of clicks for 2013.

FOX CTD damper detail
  The fork mounted CTD dial (left) gives riders the ability to choose between three levels of low speed compression damping - Climb, Trail, Descend - by rotating the anodized blue knob. The outer black dial offers three extra clicks of adjustability only when in the Trail setting, letting you decide between a soft, medium, or firm tune. Think of the blue CTD knob as the main tuning feature, and the black dial as your preferred setting when in the Trail mode. The same adjustability applies to the CTD equipped rear shocks (right). The blue ProPedal-esque lever selects the CTD setting that best suits the trail, while the black half-round knob determines which of the three levels of compression damping are used when in the Trail mode.



Looking inside the CTD fork assembly
Climb Mode: Turning the dial completely to the rider's right produces the firmest low speed compression, a setting intended to offer maximum pedalling efficiency and minimal suspension movement. Internally, both the Trail and Descend oil bleed ports are closed, forcing the damping oil through the small Climb port. The oil flow is restricted by only being able to flow through the Climb port, limiting suspension movement. FOX has incorporated a spring loaded blow-off valve into the design the will allow the damper to go into its travel under hard impacts.

Trail Mode: Rotating the indexed dial to the rider's left by 90° accesses the Trail mode. This provides an active, but firm feel that FOX says is ''an optimal blend of pedalling efficiency and bike control on variable terrain." Basically, Trail mode is a stable suspension setting that will resist diving and give the rider a firm platform to push against when pumping terrain. Certain CTD models offer Trail Adjust, letting the rider choose from three levels of compression damping while in the Trail setting. Internally, oil flow is opened to the mid and high speed compression shim stack.

Descend Mode: This, the most active suspension setting, allows the fork or shock to react quickest to the terrain. Descend mode is the plushest setting, with the damper's oil allowed to flow through the mid, high, and low speed ports.

FOX 2013 suspension CTD remote
  The optional, bar mounted CTD remote controls both the fork and shock at once, guaranteeing that the bike produces a balanced ride regardless of which mode the bike is in.

CTD Remote: FOX's CTD remote resembles the remote used to control their D.O.S.S. post, but a closer look reveals there it uses a dual cable arrangement that simultaneously controls both the fork and shock. The larger silver lever lets riders go from Descend to Trail and to Climb, while the smaller black lever releases the cable to go the opposite direction. The mount itself is hinged for easy installation or removal, and could theoretically also be positioned under the bar on the left side in place of a front shifter.

Forks that are purchased with crown mounted CTD controls can be converted with an aftermarket kit to use the remote, but this is not possible with the rear shocks due to an entirely different eyelet being required to mount the remote's cable stop.

FOX 2013 suspension CTR remote
  The fork's CTD remote cable runs behind the crown (left). Decide carefully as to whether you want your CTD equipped rear shock to be remote operated or not - no conversion kits are available aftermarket (right).


More 2013 Updates

Modified Float Fork Spring Rates: FOX altered the air spring curve on 2013 Float fork models with 130mm or more travel in an effort to better emulate the rates found on their coil spring models. The longer negative spring is claimed to offer more useable travel throughout the fork's stroke courtesy of a more linear spring curve, as well as require less initial breakaway force to enter the travel.

Lighter Fork Chassis: Both 26'' 100/120mm and 29'' 100mm Float models make use of newly butted stanchion tubes, as well as updated fork lowers that feature a reworked arch assembly that FOX says reduces weight without loosing any rigidity. The 100mm travel 26'' model comes in at a claimed weight of just 2.98 lbs (50 grams lighter than in 2012), while the 29'' model is said to weigh 3.24 lbs (204 grams less then in 2012).

FOX 2013 suspension bushing updates
  Can the new shock mounting hardware really offer close to 50% less friction? Our eyes often do a roll whenever a manufacturer claims a massive improvement in anything (let alone a small jump), but FOX rigged up a small torque wrench in order for us to feel the reduction in friction for ourselves. The difference between the old and new hardware is immense, with the new, split polymer layout definitely requiring less force to move.

New Shock Mounting Hardware: All FOX rear shocks will now utilize new polymer mounting hardware that completely replaces the long standing DU bushing method. The split polymer bushing (each side is pushed in separately, very much like most mount reducing hardware) is said to reduce friction by nearly 50%, a big number for bikes that feature a lot of shock eyelet rotation as they go through their rear wheel travel. Perhaps even more importantly than the decreased friction is FOX's claim that they are seeing the new mounting hardware last ten times as long on their mud slurry testing machines, a figure that is no doubt helped by the flanged bushing edges and O-rings. The hardware can be retrofitted to older shocks, as well - likely a worthy upgrade.



2013 Fork and Shock Options

FOX's 2013 fork range consists of twenty four different options to choose from, including two new 34 models for both 26" and 650B wheels that offer 160mm of travel in addition to the 29'' 34 forks that were available last season. The commitment to their new CTD technology is evident, with the Climb, Trail, Descend system showing up on nearly every 32 and 34 fork model (bar the single Terralogic equipped 32 Float). Many fans of the 36 will likely be glad to see the return of the RC2 damper to nearly the entire lineup, giving riders the ability to tune rebound and both the high and low speed compression.

FOX 32 Lineup:
• 26 Float Factory FIT Terralogic - 100mm - 3.22 lbs
• 26 Float Factory FIT CTD - 100, 120, 140, 150mm - 2.98 to 3.85 lbs
• 26 Float Factory FIT CTD Remote - 100, 120mm - 3.26 to 3.28 lbs
• 26 Float Evolution CTD - 100, 120, 140mm - 3.33 to 3.92 lbs
• 26 Talas Factory FIT CTD - 140, 150mm - 3.66 to 3.85 lbs
• 26 Talas Factory FIT CTD Remote - 140mm - 4.10 lbs
• 26 831 Factory FIT CTD - 100mm - 3.67 lbs
• 29 Float Factory FIT CTD - 100, 120mm - 3.24 to 3.78 lbs
• 29 Float Factory FIT CTD Remote - 100mm - 3.49 lbs
• 29 Talas Factory FIT CTD - 120mm - 4.05 lbs
• 29 Talas Factory FIT CTD Remote - 120mm - 4.30 lbs

FOX 34 Lineup:
• 26 Float Factory FIT CTD - 160mm - 4.30 lbs
• 26 Talas Factory FIT CTD - 160mm - 4.49 lbs
• 650B Float Factory FIT CTD - 160mm - 4.38 lbs
• 650B Talas Factory FIT CTD - 160mm - 4.57 lbs
• 29 Float Factory FIT CTD - 140mm - 4.49 lbs
• 29 Talas Factory - FIT CTD - 140mm - 4.68 lbs

FOX 36 160 Lineup:
• 26 Float Factory FIT RC2 - 160mm - 4.71 lbs
• 26 Float Performance R - 160mm - 4.63 lbs
• 26 Talas Factory FIT RC2 - 160/120mm - 4.79 lbs

FOX 36 180 Lineup:
• 26 Float Factory FIT RC2 - 180mm - 5.27 lbs
• 26 Talas Factory FIT RC2 - 180/140 - 5.37 lbs
• 26 Van Factory FIT RC2 - 180mm - 5.94 lbs

FOX 40 Lineup:
• 40 Factory - FIT RC2 - 203mm - 6.93 lbs



2013 Shock Options

The CTD system is also employed across the entire range of Float shocks, with riders able to choose from air sprung shocks with either shock or remote operated functions. All Float shocks will feature a slightly more linear spring curve thanks to larger air chamber (this will still be adjustable via air volume spacers), as well as the improved mounting hardware that is mentioned above.

• Float Factory CTD w/ Trail Adjust Boost Valve
• Float Factory CTD Boost Valve w/ remote
• Float Factory CTD
• Float Factory CTD remote
• Float Evolution CTD
• DHX Air 5.0 Factory Boost Valve
• DHX RC4 Factory Boost Valve
• Van RC Performance



On The Trail

What does two days worth of riding on unfamiliar terrain tell us about FOX's 2013 offerings? Surprisingly, quite a bit thanks to the devilishly rocky terrain. Our first day was spent on Yeti's 150mm travel SB-66 that was sporting a 160mm travel, 34 Float Factory FIT CTD up front and a Float Factory CTD w/ Trail Adjust Boost Valve out back. Day two was on a Santa Cruz Tallboy, again with a 34 Float Factory FIT CTD (this one a 29er version, obviously) and a CTD equipped Float Factory rear shock. We won't blame you if you are getting your model names and acronyms mixed up - there is a lot going on when it comes to names and specs. It is for this reason that we'll focus in our early impressions on the CTD damper alone instead of the entire fork or shock as a whole. You can bet that we'll be featuring a FOX fork and shock standalone review down the road, though.

FOX 2013 suspension setup
  There was a FOX tech for pretty much every rider in our group, with each one spending time with us in order to be sure our bikes were setup correctly. Suspension pressures were set with FOX's digital pumps and then written down on a label right on the bike. This gave each rider a place to begin their tuning from, as well as letting us know the pressure and damping settings to return to if our own adjustments had the opposite effect that were were looking for.

Up To Speed: Suspension setup remains relatively simple, despite the CTD damper technology and influx of techno-jargon that goes along with it. Start by dialling in your spring rate, then choose the appropriate compression and rebound settings to match, before hitting the trail for a trial run. Self styled suspension tuners will likely find themselves adjusting their suspension rate in relation to which CTD setting they find themselves using the most: nearly always in Descend? An extra 5psi might be in order if you are an aggressive rider.

The CTD dial controls a very wide range of compression damping, with the suspension feeling quite firm with the it flipped to the Climb setting. It doesn't approach a complete lockout, which is a good thing, but it is enough to keep the suspension steady when climbing out of the saddle. A spring loaded blowoff valve prevents any damage to the bike or rider if you drop into the descent without remembering to open the suspension back up. The Trail setting is where we can see most riders setting and forgetting the blue dial, especially on CTD equipped forks, in order to best preserve the handling of the bike. It's this setting that most closely resembles our non-CTD setups on our own bikes, with it still able to track the terrain without pitching back and forth. The three position, black Trail Adjust dial that decides the level of damping when in the Trail setting was our main tuning tool when on the trail, with a noticeable difference between the soft and firm positions.

The reason for us staying in the Trail position the majority of the time was due to what we feel is too light of valving in the Descend position. It was light enough, in fact, that we actually spent nearly all of our time descending with the fork in the firmer Trail setting, defeating the purpose of offering three different damping levels. There was just too much fork dive when with the CTD damper set to full open, allowing the bike to pitch forward and compromise the geometry when braking hard for corners, as well as not giving us a firm enough suspension 'platform' to push against when trying to work the rocks and undulations of the test track.

Presss Launch for the Fox Racing Shox 2013 CTD system with DOSS seatpost and 34mm Long Travel Forks and matching rear shock. Photo by Colin Meagher
  Levy guiding his Yeti SB-66 test bike down through the rock landmines.

That Remote: The rather sizable CTD remote may stand out atop the handlebar like a sore thumb, but we do have to say that it was very cool to be able to simultaneously adjust both the front and rear suspension on the fly. Hitting the levers either instantly firmed up or softened both ends of the bike, something that racers and sporty trail riders will likely appreciate. The downside to the CTD remote is the two cables, one for the fork and one for the shock, that make the front of the bike look like a rat's nest. Regardless, those who want on the fly adjustability will look past this. The remote's black release lever, the one that takes the suspension from firm to open, had a tendency to jump right past the middle setting. This meant that it could be tricky to go from Climb to Trail without simply jumping straight past into Descend mode. Heavier indexing, please.

Presss Launch for the Fox Racing Shox 2013 CTD system with DOSS seatpost and 34mm Long Travel Forks and matching rear shock. Photo by Colin Meagher
  Mark Fitzsimmons, FOX's race program manager, works with some of the fastest racers in the world, a list that includes the Athertons, Trek World Racing, and the Syndicate. As you'd expect, he can also rally a bike hard.

Concerns: We like the idea behind the CTD system and its three distinct levels of compression damping, but our early impressions left us wishing for heavier valving while in the Descend mode. Compounding that sensation was the new flatter spring rate in the Float forks. We've always felt that FOX's air spring curves were a bit too linear for our liking, so we were surprised to see that FOX went out of their way to flatten the rate even more for 2013. The result is a fork (both the 26'' and 29'' Float 34s we rode, anyways) that simply wants to use too much of its travel too often. One answer is, of course, more air pressure. But that will also have a negative effect as the fork becomes less eager to absorb smaller impacts at the top of its stroke. A fix could be a small amount of oil in the air spring side to reduce the chamber's volume, but we would love to see FOX offer volume spacer kits (just like in their Float rear shocks) that would do the same thing. Likewise, firmer damping in the Descend position would also mean that a softer spring rate could be used without the suspension using too much of its travel.


Pinkbike's Take: So, does the three postion CTD damper make sense? It will certainly take some of the mystery out of suspension for riders who might otherwise be intimidated by low and high speed compression dials, not to mention anyone who cringes at the thought of actually performing a rebuild to do any tuning. FOX has made it simple: flip the lever to Climb when doing so, Trail when traversing, and Descend when the bike points down - perfect for many. Unfortunately, our early impressions have left us believing that CTD might leave aggressive riders wanting quite a bit more support from the damper (as well as the new Float fork air spring rate) when in the descend mode. We spoke to FOX about our concerns and they agreed that aggressive riders will likely require more pressure, roughly 10psi or more than what they would have used in comparable 2012 forks. "Bumping the air pressure also doesn’t really affect the sensitivity of the suspension because of the long negative spring design,'' FOX's Mark jordan told us, "It just helps the fork ride higher in the travel". FOX says that proper air pressure is key to providing enough support when in the Descend mode, with too soft of a spring rate exaggerating the change in damping levels between Trail and Descend settings. More trail time will be required to see if we can tune FOX's latest suspension offerings more to our liking, something that you'll be able to read about down the road.

www.ridefox.com
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225 Comments

  • + 120
 There are at least 436 cables and hoses on that Tallboy. I'm just going to leapfrog everyone and mount my laptop to my handlebars, I'll figure out what to do with it later.

Edit: At least it doesn't have that ridiculous on the fly tire inflator thing that RC found at Sea Otter.
  • + 120
 Don't worry Shimano is there to save us all with Di2. Bluetooth brakes is where it's at. Imagine if we could only get hold of technology that will be able to automaticaly post all our bottom outs to Facebook!
  • + 24
 Best get some super wide bars so there's space for all the 'remote' controls!
  • + 35
 agree......ooohhhhh common fox........really...all these "new standards" and suspension buttons are kinda getting to a stupid level already....what are we now? Lab monkeys to buy and "test" all these stuff that NOBODY needs?!! ....this is getting hilarious!!...i will stick to Marzocchi....good old quality, buttersmooth, and just the right "twisters" that u need....fox really pisses me off nowadays...u used to like them...but then u look at the price of the forks and shoxs, and the rather sh*tty quality..and then this...they spend tons of money on these useless tecs and dont improve things like...durability?! less maintenance?! or at least improve this sh*tty customer service you have here in europe!!!! thank you!! dont need no "trail control"!!!!
  • + 28
 Soon you won't need to turn the handlebars to turn the front wheel. There will be bar-mounted joysticks and gadgetry for that.
  • + 15
 No more 160mm Van for 36mm?
  • + 25
 Is it just me or is mountianbiking becoming one of thiese lazier sports that new tech stuff overcomes.....
  • + 16
 all this expensive tech makes me wanna go ride a rigid singlespeed! simple but full adjustability so you can dial your own setup without a tech and loads of specialist tools.
  • + 54
 Im going to have to run a second handlebar for all this sh*t.
  • + 12
 DARKSTAR63 duuuuuuude! you're onto something! One handlebar for uphilling and one for downhilling! Double stem or just the upper part mounted on top of the normal one. Roadies have some kind of that thing in their TT bikes! It's brilliant! I will remember that man! if someone steals that Idea I will fight for your right to the patent! Think of business potential - people would have to run four brake levers! Wait... in MTB It would be a tough one... they would have to decide which of 3 diameters to choose from, or make a completely new one.
  • + 8
 i've seen it done with an ipad... better get on that. maybe theres an app for that..
  • + 3
 oh thats why i need wider bars!
  • + 4
 Loadeds new flat bars... 810mm and youre good to go!
  • + 10
 The sort of people that ride 29ers and have a stroke every time they hear their bike make a creak are going to love all this overly-tech nonsense. Can't people just ride a bike instead of convincing themselves that any of this will make a difference to what should be just a fun experience rather than a bling and statistic contest. I'm surprised they aren't wearing HUD goggles in the photos so they can give us a a whole pile of random speed stats too
  • + 1
 Waki brilliant. Two bars with different widths and appropriate controls on each. Full customizable cockpit, on the fly.
  • + 3
 now the race will be on to go wireless... fully digital wireless adjustment i can voice command over my helmet heads up display... hurry up fox...
  • + 5
 I was just thinking that, lol, its not a bad idea right, voice command. Just tell your bike "decend!!", "climb!!"
  • + 12
 @Yario and Darkstar.
How will the bike adjust when I yell, "OOOOOOOH SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII.....". Maybe it could be CTDB, Climb, Trail, Descend, Brace for Impact.
  • + 0
 Now i see why handlebars are getting wider - more room for these awesome hand controls
  • + 8
 DARKSTAR and Waki, Thank you. That was hilarious. On the new system.... So between the rear shock remote, front shock remote, seat post remote, and gear shifters, I'm going to feel like NASA flicking switches for a shuttle launch EVERY FRIGGIN TIME THE TERRAIN CHANGES! I would need 15 arms if I still want to steer the damn bike while managing all of that. If Fox is sooo smart, why dont they come up with a system that just changes automatically.... OR how about this, just ride your damn bike and quit being such a sissy that you need to make 23 mechanical alterations in order to pedal up a 100 foot hill. What a thought! The best riders always seem to have the oldest bikes... and the most fun. Just a thought.
  • - 3
 Everyone's always hating on innovation. It's simple, if you don't like it, don't buy it.
  • + 12
 I dont... however most bikes are sold fully built at bike shops to people who dont know a hub from a bottom bracket. They walk in with a wad of cash and buy whatever the newest MBA ad tells them. This is what makes companies their money putting this stuff out and leaves the hardcore enthusiast who actually know better screwed. Cars have gone the same route. Between traction control, ABS, and all the other computers in your car... you aren't even driving it anymore and it blows. It happened because of people who dont know jack wanting all that because it was marketed as "an improvement." How about you learn to drive properly in the first place and then you dont need any of that crap.
  • - 6
 If I wasn't broke I would ride all the latest stuff and so would every one here
  • + 3
 but wit cars its ok, because cars arent hobby, they are used to commute by maaany people that dont even like cars...so yeah they have to be safe and drive themselves so that the grandma behind the wheel wont crash on you while youre riding your bike....and Villageboy, the problem is not that we are just "hating" on innovation, innovation is good...but innovation is only good when it brings us foward...and not only made to make money...i mean, yes adjusting your susps on the fly might be interesting for the first 5 miles...but after that not only u get sick of using that extra lever, but u also realize that u just dont need it...DO NOT compare this tho to the Scott bikes, why? because scott integrated the lever to the system...the bike itself, the meaning of the bike and its abilitys depend on the lever, because the bike was built around the lever..
  • + 6
 Not hating villageboy, just having some fun. You have to admit, all the gizmo's coming out.. it's pretty funny. In the future we just buy robots that ride our bikes for us. We sit at home and watch on a video screen and eat junkfood.
  • + 7
 Agreed, there's a difference between innovation and needless tech which will eventually take the fun out of riding.
  • - 2
 Hey Waki I know the solution, get an on the fly button for adjusting the three diameters and the two bars!
  • + 7
 24 forks in a catalog and 8 rear shocks? you could get rid of half the skus on the forks alone and not confuse the end user, not frustrate your vendor and probably still increase your margin. THAT would be innovative.
  • + 11
 looks like fox has p!ssed off a lot of potential customers, not only that but lost some street cred too. I always looked too up to and respected fox but now they are making a mockery of grass root riders to pander the growing market of cashed up here today gone tomorrow Johny come latelies. its insulting that someone who cant take the time to understand the concept of set and forget slow speed compression, aka RC2, gets preference by saying something like, 'i dont want low speed compression because i wont be going slow man'. i ride off road because i love working with untamed nature to challenge myself and thereby improve my skills and experience. but now it seems the idea of innovation is to completely divorce the riding experience from the main reason you go in the first place. if given option I know i'll now pass on the fox option, I dont agree with their philosophy any more
  • + 1
 Rob-is-on-fire, here we go... The future of DH racing!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpXITgL47mw
  • - 2
 I'm lost without this fork!
  • + 6
 Agree with the majority of you guys, Im running a marzocchi z150 from 2005 with rebound air and lock down/out.. what more do you need? In my opinion people are becoming far too heavily reliant on their suspension settings rather than just learning to ride a bike as it is.
  • + 6
 to be fair, the ctd just looks like a reworked version of the 1,2,3 settings you get on a rp23, which they are selling as new and improved... its probably just the same
  • + 2
 Looks pretty fukin complicated, folks.
  • + 4
 I hucked a 12' drop on a hardtail with a marz drop off, 6" fork w/ air pres as the only adjustment. More shit doesn't necessarily = faster/bigger/badder-ass. LSC/HSC/Rebound= more adjustment, but it honestly aint that complicated folks.. This whole up/down switch thing is cool for dudes that want simple shit, but honestly, is LSC/HSC and even LSR/HSR really THAT complicated? Slow, fast, compression, rebound.. 4 words, understand them and you understand suspension. Theyre pretty simple concepts. Am i wrong? Sometimes, but not this time. Big Grin (Tech tuesday (Boxxer adjustments)) are applicable to all forks. C'mon, dudes, you can tune your fork w/o some easy ass 3-way switch.
  • + 3
 I was going to spec Fox suspension on my new build, but it looks like Rockshox is getting my money now. Horray to Rockshox for building a solid, consistent, lineup that isnt re-vamped every 5 minutes to fix everything that was wrong from the last improvements.
  • + 2
 i have like a 7 year old marzocchi 888, the 2 adjustments it has i think are broken, and im just fine, i dont really care about most of this new shit they put on forks, i just care that i have something that works so i can go out and ride my bike
  • + 7
 For 2014 I would like them to mount the speaker in the top cap and some voice player reading input from the fork while it's working on the terrain. Would be great to have some talking dirty program on it: Yea, oh, oh, yea daddy, work my Kashima! bring it on, oh oh yea, yea daddy, my LSC is so horny now, YEA! YEA! YEA! Oh oh my bottom out bladder, you wicked cucumber, yea Oh, you so hot, you so fit...
[Reply]
  • + 40
 dear fox STOP FIXING THINGS THAT AREN'T BROKEN!!!! sinceerly the world of mountain bikers
  • + 0
 They aren't trying to fix it. They are trying to come up with new and better designs to stay ahead of the competition. There is a difference. If you don't like what they are doing, don't buy from them. Also, speak for yourself. I have no problem with your opinion, I like hearing other peoples opinions. That's why I read the comments. Just don't sign it from everybody.
  • + 1
 Except changing things they just unveiled changes of less than a year ago is not staying ahead. Its advertising that they are still desperately trying to catch up. Rockshox has them beat by a wide margin right now. Motion and mission control compression damping is like propedal, and all but the bottom model aftermarket and oem models have used that across the brand for six or seven years now. Most of them get external adjustments to the lockout thresholds and even the really cheap models have offered remote lockouts for years. And don't get me started on how much better the lyric and boxxer models are than the fox 36 and 40 platforms. I have a reba race 29 fork. It has motion control,external threshold adjustment for the MC damper, adjustable rebound, seperate positive and negative air chambers, and came with a remote lockout which i used twice and then removed. Other than air pressure it worked perfect out of the box and has never needed fiddling with. My fox talas RLC on the other hand, needed multiple rides to find a setup where it worked as well as that reba fork, and i have never used its useless lockout lever either, and its doubly useless lockout blowoff threshold adjuster. The only reason to even have that is to have riders use the lockout all the time as a kluggey way of duplicating what motion control damping does automatically.
[Reply]
  • + 34
 So last year they replace the propedal/RP23 setup everyone already understood with adaptive logic dials which totally reversed the dial position settings, and now less than a year later they're announcing yet another redesign that changes the dial options and settings yet again. Just too hard to just give the XC shocks the same controls as the DHX models isn't it? All we want is a low speed compression damping adjustment, a rebound adjustment, and MAYBE a seperate high speed compression adjustment, and the freaking air pressure.... THAT'S IT... why is it that Fox treats the DH user as being smart enough to figure this out, but not any of their other customers ?!
  • + 15
 deeeight - it is just harder to bullsht with a DH or any other racing bike - I mean you can introduce a new material or handlebar standard but more cables?... All mountain/trail segment is a perfect toilet for all sorts of bizarre crap. A weekend warrior with limited time to train and a fat wallet will suck and swallow way more of such stuff than a "what-it-takes" conscious racer
  • + 14
 Could not agree more.....

Give me a fork and a shock with high & low speed, compression and rebound adjustments and let me ride....

Pro-Pedal was useful for the rare occasion that I pedaled my 9" travel dh bike up a hill, but I personally have no use for all this other "technology"
  • + 18
 I have a 2012 Fox 40 and DHX RC4 on my race bike and I love them, but IMO Fox needs to go back to keeping things simple and down to what the rider needs, not changing it up every year. I like what they've done with improving the 40, but a lot of their new stuff is going way overboard. Even things like the 15mm thru-axle on the 831 irritated me; all the other dirt jump forks run 20mm, why does the 831 have to be different?!
  • + 10
 +1 We seem to be the only sport that uses suspension that's treated to so many 'new' adjustments. A decent setup guide and base settings for a bike and rider, rather a three stage compression system (seriously, isnt it just a compression dial with less rider choice and tunability) would give riders so much more. I see bikes that so often dont even have the right pressures for rider weight in for the xc/am crowd, and i can see how this would aim to simplfy things for them, but a lot of us DO understand what all the dials do!!

The forks that are getting the biggest praise in taking suspension forward lately are zocchi, who basically shrunk the dh fork for use on other bikes in other applications, and BOS. BOS created a properly designed and shimmed fork, with easy to understand adjusters that work. Am currently riding a speed sensitive fork, with low speed rebound and compression, thats it, and i can safely say i've managed to get more mout of this fork than any other 'complicated' fork i've owned.

Taking a step back might be a bigger step forward here fox. That seatpost just needs to go up and down, even office chairs can do that simply.... that much adjustment...really?
  • + 5
 The worst part is, that others might think the same - let's just complicate stuff so we don't loose clients to Fox, we have to stay competitive, innovate or die, this kind of crap. How about "stay true"? Despite all that crap around I just bought 9sp rear mech, 26" rims from 2003 along with Hope hubs to be ready for whatever industry throws at them in the future - I am not buying into this sht.
  • + 2
 ^What WAKI said. I wouldn't even mind all this new innovation if it weren't replacing what is tried and true because who knows, some of it might work and there are people out there who like that kind of stuff. But for the rest of us, can we have the old lineup back please, Fox?
  • + 6
 touche. high and low speed rebound on a simple pair of 36 floats please, its not fucking rocket science
  • + 0
 One of X-Fusion's mid-range XC Air shocks comes with three adjustments only, air pressure (duh), a red dial for rebound damping, and... and this is the BIG feature I like, a blue lever which actually adjusts the compression adjustment across a fairly wide range. Not one of those simple, and largely useless lockouts like Fox likes to use. If you actually are riding and need to locking out your rear suspension... you don't know how to ride properly in the first place, or shouldn't have bought a full suspension for trips to the 7-11.

As to the 15mm axle on the 831... thats simply because its a 32mm stanchion fork. Rather than actually take the time to invest in FULL new lowers for the jump fork, or even do something simple like take a 36 and then make a reduced travel version of that platform to market as the jump model.... they try and make the 32mm platform a bit stronger. And since they were already had the tooling made for the new 15mm axle lowers for them, they just slapped a new colour into the process, a few stickers and poof... the 831 lowers using an axle standard not supported by any other jumper.
  • + 5
 Anyone else notice the disapearance of RLC and the reappearance of RC2? WOOT I can adjust high speed compression on a 160mm Talas again!!
  • + 1
 As 36 VAN 160 has gone, Fox is out there shitless towards BOS DeVille, MZ 55 RC3 Ti and Lyrik with MC DH... i wouldn't change my 2007 Lyrik U-TURN for neither 160 Talas or Float anyways, even if they released a Ti crown version for the cost of Suntour Durolux... And Fox air with RLC is either divey poo or a ride in two condoms
  • + 3
 My AM rig is running 1x10 with no lockouts on fork or shock and an old school seat post QR. 1 cable, 2 hoses, all I really need.
  • + 1
 Yeah I have to say all this is ridiculous, I ride with the "old school" / "obsolete" fox f80 with two controls, rebound and lockout. What happened to those days?
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  • + 19
 Typical Fox. Shove a bunch of crap down our throats that we don't want or need. The Float R on my Ellsworth works just fine. Although it needs rebuilt 2-3 times a year.

A good suspension design doesn't and shouldn't require constant lever flipping to work well.
Fox Please do all of us a favor and give us the same controls you give the DH guys. Rebound, Low Speed compression, and maybe High Speed compression, a lock out for the pavement ride to the trail, and Volume adjust.
Most of us are more than capable of setting up our suspensions. I demo at least a dozen bikes each year. And It only takes me a few minutes to get the initial sag, rebound and low speed compression set. Then a minor adjustment here or there on the first few rides.

At the very least give us the option to upgrade to the DH style controls. Heck, I'd even box up the CTD cartridge and send it back to you.

To Frame Manufactures: If Your Bike Requires Lever Flipping to Perform well. You Will Not Get My Business. I buy a new frame every 2-3 years and spend over 2 grand on them. I have no problem throwing down cash for great products as long as its what I want.

Adding levers that need constant flipping is the Last Thing riders need or want. I want to enjoy my ride and not be constantly thinking about whether my fork and shock are in the right mode.

Long story short Keep It Simple Stupid!
[Reply]
  • + 14
 The DOSS remote is excessively large and complicated. If its just controlling a seatpost it should replace one of your grip lock-rings, like KS' posts. Also, while the CTD remote IS doing a lot of stuff at once, it could probably be smaller/more out of the way as well. The technology behind the rest of it seems really solid though, and I like that your fork and rear shock will always be in the same mode.

Also, on a more random note, but why doesn't FOX sell more than one level of 40? You would think they'd be able to do well with a more entry level fork, a la boxxer race or 888 cr. They would be able to be OEM equipment on lower price point downhill bikes too, something that they really, really aren't capable of doing at the moment.
  • + 2
 if fox sold a "budget" 40 they would loose too much money cos nobody would bother buying their expensive one.... fox is a lot like Aston martin these days....
more expensive than it needs to be and its all about the badge!!!!!
still bloody good stuff though..
  • + 1
 The majority of profits brought in by most companies are from the lower level, consumer type products. They would make more money selling two lower end 40s than one high end one, for example.
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  • + 9
 NIce write-up, good to see honest reporting of the product impression. But, 2 days of testing, and there wasn't an opportunity to do back-to-back runs with increased air pressure, in order to test out the Mark Jordan's assertions about increasing the air pressure not negatively impacting the sensitivity?
  • + 2
 I did increase the air pressure a few times by small amounts, but would like more time on the suspension before commenting further.
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  • + 8
 Read two first ride reports on the CTD stuff now, here and on VitalMTB - both criticised the "descend" settings for being too soft and diving into the travel too much.

Was surprised to see one first ride report being critical, as they're normally closer to a press release than a review - to see two of them being critical suggests Fox have got things a bit wrong.

Either way, all that extra cabling and complication - no thanks. I'll stick with BOS - lighter, cheaper and better.
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  • + 11
 Oh a 29er what a surprise!
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  • + 9
 That Raptor is gnarly, still love my Tacoma though Smile

And the new tech...it will be commonplace in 5 years...
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  • + 6
 I've got a Reverb remote on the left and a shifter on the right. I almost never lock out my Revelation or flip my pro pedal lever. I just want to ride. I get the feeling I'm not alone in cringing at a lot of the remote actuated crap coming out these days.
[Reply]
  • + 8
 I didn't actually think it was that hard to set up a fox fork anyway. Put in the air, adjust the rebound. Pretty much done!
  • + 1
 same goes with their rear air shocks. i've never had a problem with those.
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  • + 5
 I'm on the same opinion as you guys . Lady week I had a play on a trek top fuel with all the gadgets and stopped after a minute cause the crap on the bars was getting stupid . I have the best CTD idea ride 1x10 C- harden up and stomp T- enjoy the ride D- pick good lines and have some fun
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  • + 8
 831 misshing the 34mm sanctions BAD MOVE fox.
  • + 0
 no need for it on a 120mm chassis.... as much as it would look badass
  • + 1
 Why do you think so many lower 36's. If they offer 34mm forks 4xers and djers would say thanks. Not to mention that it would be a reason for many to upgrade and more revenue to fox...
  • + 2
 Just buy a new 34mm 150mm fork and lower it. Technically the stanchion overlap would make a stiffer fork than the 831 in the end.
  • + 1
 That's missing the point of the dedicated valve/compression mechanism of the 4x/dj fork. I was delaying getting a 2012 to see a 34mm one, SUCKS.
[Reply]
  • + 4
 I want that with a dropper seat post that is on an in line cable with the rear shock, or something like that, so the seat is tied in to the remote so that on the C setting the seat is at the way up, on setting T the seat is half way down and on D the seat is all the way down. one remote for all three things!
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  • + 4
 I guess someone missed the memo that you get better climbing traction with plush suspension. As long as you don't pound up and down like a monkey when you pedal, and as long as your bike has adequate anti squat like VPP or similar, there is absolutely no need to lock out, or firm up suspension. My Nomad with a coil and a push link to make it plush like a DH bike climbs better on tech terrain than any bike I've ever had. Certainly much better than a hardtail that won't conform to the terrain. This is all a bunch of nonsense. What a waste of R&D dollars. Give me a Marzocchi with virtually zero maintenance requirements and the ability to react over a pebble any day over this crap that will no doubt need servicing mid ride.
[Reply]
  • + 4
 Amen to all the commenters above who focus on Fox providing multiple "solutions" to problems that don't exist.

Here's a suggestion, Fox -- if you are finding the average Fox suspension buyer doesn't know how to adjust his/her fork or shock, how about you simplify things NOT with new stuff layered on top of existing tech, but by simplifying the actual tech itself.

How about the "industry" (including the many lame journalists writing about bikes) start telling people that they can't just buy a bike and expect it to do everything for them. How about a little integrity on the journalism side, instead of merely being vectors for marketing fluff?

How about it?
  • + 1
 A very good point. People would need to pay more attention to their RIDING SKILLS than on their bikes' hyper-duper tech stuff, like this CTD.
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  • + 7
 Way too many cables/hoses...
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  • + 3
 As stated before no 36 Van 160??? And to be honest I do not want a fork or shock with 30+ "apps", I want something that is easy to adjust, maintain, and not over-complicated! I guess there is a reason the racers get suspension technicians to support them - they are the only ones that can negotiate the labyrinth of adjustments. I am all for progress, but with all these new technologies they are selling, I imagine service costs are going to be more as well, and you can no longer rebuild your forks yourself at home. I think the acronym K.I.S.S. no longer applies here. Maybe they should have held a survey here on pinkbike, or wherever so that the end user and not the racer would be able to chime in?
  • + 3
 I get what you're saying, for sure. Keep in mind that the CTD system actually has the same amount of dials as many other designs, it's just that these new ones do different things.
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  • + 3
 This is becoming a joke. I can't believe the way the industry is moving with dozens of new standards and technology changing as quick as computers. How about perfecting your products before you come out with completely new everything? I love blowing $900 on an 831 only to have problems out of the box or spending $1500 on a Boxxer only to have to rebuild it every few weeks.

The worst part of the mtb industry is how so many of us consumers are so used to being the "guinea pigs" for products. I knew perfectly well that by buying a new Boxxer fork there is a high chance I was going to have problems given Rock Shox's reputation and my past experience with their products. I have had varying degrees of problems with almost EVERY SINGLE Rockshox/Avid/Truvativ product I have ever owned. But I still bought it because every company has a flaw in someway or another! Joke is on me I guess....
[Reply]
  • + 4
 OK ... i'm riding FOX now for years ... and seeing this makes me wanna stay faithful for a few more years
the only thing that i am worried about is the fact that the 40 is getting heavier and heavier with every year =\
  • + 3
 common man?! how can u stay faithful to this??!!!! all their products are veeery expensive, have bad quality, u need to service them every 10 meters, and when u need to service them the fox customer service here in Ger will take weeks to send u your fork back if thats whats necessary...and now they spend tons of money on this kind of useless stuff!! we dont need that!!!!!!
  • + 7
 never had problems with everything you said (except expensive) for about the past 5 years ;] ... quality is mint, performance is great, reliability is perfect,
stiffness is unrevaled and the guys @ Toxo doing a great job ... i dont see any point switching to a Boxxer witch breaks like no other fork
and the 300g difference ... who cares
  • + 5
 at the end of the day its about personal riding style =]
  • + 5
 me too.. all the complaining about needing service every week is not in my life.. my van and 40 are running on and on.. but the guys at toxo didnt service my rebound cartridge.. while i did ask for a full service.. the best service you can give your fork.. is your own service i learned,,. so no more tox for me..
  • + 2
 good news!!! fox is prototyping a fox 40 float... should be at least 300g lighter if their other fork lines are anything to go by
  • + 3
 my rp23 propedal didn't work when it came on my new bike. I sent it in and they fixed it. One year later and it does nothing again. Fox stuff has the best rep for function, but the service life is the shortest in the world.From what I hear my complaint with my shock is pretty true across the whole spectrum of fox products. This stuff seems like it is all sensible, but if the service life doesn't get better I will stick with my lyrik and look for a more reliable rear shock.
  • + 1
 not quite.. i had a rp on my cowan.. did jumps and street with it.. propedal kept up.. same for the rp in my trek ex 9 has been running okay for 4 years now..
  • + 2
 Which rp? Maybe only the 23 pro pedal sucks. The service life I refer to is the recommended service life and it is uber short. The seals on the forks let crap in as a compromise to let them slide easy which is the reason for the service life length I think. The seals on my rp23 seam good though since I just changed the oil for the first time in months and it looked fine.
  • + 1
 I've put a 2010/11 RP23 with boost valve on my Nomad 1. I bought a PUSHed one as it was only 30£ more than a regular. I ride ONLY with Pro pedal Full on, as by some magic way bike stays super efficient on pedalling and between 25-30% of SAG it just opens fully on any bump. Traction on uphills is amazing and downhill performance is astonishing. Im super happy with it, comparing to a total shit that DHX 5.0 coil was for trail riding. The only downside is hard but slow, not sqaured hits like landing lips of dirt jumps when it dives extensively. Ah anf with propedal off my Nomad bobs like idiot
  • + 1
 So pushing is worth it. I tell myself I'll push it as soon as the warranty is up. We'll see.
  • + 2
 I havent bounced it around on proper gravity riding in proper mountains, but for my technical trail riding it does work excellent. I also have a non pushed RP23 on my wives META 4x but it's less travel and with low volume can so I dobt know if U can compare that. It does feel noticeably worse either too bobby or too firm. I use the middle setting when I "rent" it out from her
  • + 1
 But i might put my RP23 through the Fort William track next month I can update you on that. Ill take DHX 5.0 in case Smile
  • + 3
 @taletotell I would suggest sending it to PUSH Industries in Loveland, CO. Their service is unparalleled and they have a very strong local and international following. I had my 2005 Fox F80 serviced there (I'm from Loveland) and I honestly couldn't tell a difference between that and a brand new 2009 model when it came back and I climbed aboard.
  • + 1
 WAKI i would definatly put the DHX back on for fort bill, i only have a standard 23 on my Tomac but i would dread to have gone down there with that on it would be all over the shop, think it would have just packed up before the bottom of the main DH. DHX was super smooth down there even tho its old.

As for all this tech if you want to see how silly its all getting just compare the internals and service manusal of say a pair of 66s or lyriks to that of a pair of 36s, its just a whole other world. i understand a sealed damper is potentially a good idea but its just over engineered and for what gain really ? £850 for a pair of 36 float Rs versus £750 for a pair of lyrik solo airs with mission control, theyre just having a laugh.

HSC, LSC and rebound is all you need and most of the time you dont really need HSC. I think out of all the forks ive had in the past 7/8 years the best 2 are my Pikes and my Z1 FR2s. Both very simple, bomb proof, can go for ages without needing attention (although i will admit i do check them over regularly now theyre 5 yrs old) and feel amazing. I have friends with overly complicated fox forks and yes they feel great at the start, i wouldnt say any better than the equivalent from marzo or RS, but within 18 months / 2 years theyre in desperate desperate need of an overhaul.
  • + 2
 I run my rp23 full open at the park. Between the oversized can and reasonably low leverage ratio from my frame it feels pretty good. It suffices for the limits of my skill. The pro pedal is only on when I am climbing a big hill for a long time, or commuting, which I do twice a week now. My commute involves some single track, but to get there I do a lot of climbing.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 CTD..... are Fox employing the old Marzocchi boys TST now from back in 2005 or are they just catching up?
I was out on my 2008 Fox Float 36 RC2's yesterday and this morning...
I was out on the 2011 and 2012 offerings last weekend at a demo day...
... why change something when you have it right to something that is just not so right!
[Reply]
  • + 2
 My last two sets of Fox 32s had stanchion rub when I pulled them apart for their first 30 hours 'new seal and oil' service. Fox, please work on the real problems not incremental adjustments. I ride the OEM Fox stuff that come stock on my Giant bikes but I'm starting to wish that Giant switch to Rock Shox for their race bikes for 2013, CTD or no CTD.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 fox and all other companies are only advancing. it's fun for them. this is what the employees are good at and love. think of it like this: if all you negative nancies owned a business would you want to stop making your products new and fun.. essentialythrowing in the towel
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  • + 2
 what ANY fork and shock really need are the low speed rebound, low speed compression that goes to almost lockout and bottom out resistance adjustment (volume adjuster would be the best). also, the damping should be matched to the spring rate.

you can shove the external high speed adjusters on the more expensive models.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 YAAAAAWN....Marzocchi came out with this technology about 3 to 5 years ago. Next thing you know FOX will invent the elastomer bumper system like Manitou back in the 80's. Keep drinking the marketing kool-aid everyone!
www.marzocchi.com/Template/Popup/popupDetailForksFeatures.asp?LN=UK&idC=-1&IdFolder=140&IdOggetto=8368
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  • + 2
 never understood why they havent been using some plastic bushings for much longer time. I mean its state of the art for low rotation movements with high applied forces. I bet its gonna cost us a fortune to get these, even if those bushings are only worth 1-2 $$.

igus.com/default.asp?PAGE=IGLIDE i am using these in my job for construction of heavy industrial machines.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Is this stuff going to work fro more than a season? My rp23 never makes it a full season without being sent back to fox. And since the warrant is up this summer I have to decide whether to send it to push or buy something else from a company whose stuff lasts longer.
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  • + 6
 Rock Shox is just way cooler than Fox these days ...
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  • + 1
 I will say that I went from using a Rockshox monarch RT3 (lump of dog turd) to a Kashima coated CTD and theres a massive difference and I mean massive difference. The CTD when all said and done is just a simplified RP23 for numpties who can work out how to tune an RP23.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 All I can say is that this "new product" has absolutely no appeal to me. I climb and descend just fine without touching a thing on my suspension. The only time I do anything is for very long climbs during which I SOMETIMES use the propedal on my RP2.
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  • + 3
 I'm waiting for the future when we don't actually ride the bike. We will have an avatar to actually ride the bike, and we will just feel the emotions of the ride!
  • + 1
 Combine the movies Tron and Strange Days. I get the impression a lot of people would prefer to reduce MTBs/MTBing to the image it provides them, and to hell with actually riding a bike.

Until the industry provides us with the means to put on a Strange Days hairnet streaming images directly to our brain, we'll be able to watch Fox cater to the non-riding uber-poseur crowd, and/or factory sponsored teams, with absurdly overdone products that require total teardown and rebuild every 5 hours of use and which are priced too high for anyone but the non-riding poseurs (desk jockey e-riders raking in the cash) and factory sponsored teams (who don't buy their own forks and shocks anyway). Oh happy day!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Dear FOX Racing Shox, can i sugest...
2014 range...
float 32 rlc 100mm QR/20mm, 32talas RLC 120 - 150mm 20mm.
float 34 29 RLC 100mm 20mm. 34 talas 29 rlc 20mm.
36 831 100mm RC, simple and cheap. float 36 RLC 160mm 20mm, 36 talas 140-180mm 20mm.
40 RLC 20mm. simples.

rea shox - vanRC. Float RLC, DHX air. DHX coil. done.

now make them cheaper so we can afford to buy the best forks on the planet. Thankyou a long term fox owner
  • + 1
 everything 20mm, ditch the qr.
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  • + 5
 BIONICON and SCOTT were first!!!!
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  • + 1
 i think you could get away with this ctd on a bike that runs 1x10 gearing and no dropper post.... once you start adding all the other stuff it could be difficult to accomodate it all without making your bike look like a mess.. i thought bikes were getting cleaner looking bikes with internal cable routing and matchmaker/ispec mounting these stupid levers are a step back in my opinion...
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I agree that the complexity seems overcooked. However, seems to me the point is that you simplify to a simple binary, on/off, combination. The style of riding in SoCal is simple, straight freaking uphill or straight freaking downhill. I, for one, absolutely want two settings, period. I climb hard, I descend hard. The old talas rlc has really bad habits of turning other dials when you go to lock things out. If this simplifies it so I don't have to worry about other shit when I flip the switch then I'm all for it. I don't look at it as new complexity, I see a refinement of what they were already going for. My $.02.
[Reply]
  • + 5
 so... its like the twinlock and equalizer that scott makes?
  • + 6
 Essentially yes. Fox rarely ever actually innovates. Stealing other people inventions and putting it into a fancier package... that's what they excel at.
  • + 2
 Yes, and Scott have been doing it successfully for quite a number of years now. Nothing new here people.
  • + 1
 dare i say it the actuation levers on the scott system looked way neater... it appears that fox thinks our handlebars should look like a half built nuclear sub!!!
  • + 6
 nuclear subs are cool, they are long hard and full of sea men
  • + 1
 Nuclear subs are gay, jets are the way to deliver nukes. And way less seamen involved
  • + 1
 No a lot of sea men is being wasted on a nuclear carrier
  • + 2
 Lol the nuclear part of the sub is its power source, not related to bombs at all hahaha
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I have the 2013 CTD rear shock and its so so much better than the 2012 RP23 . I got one without a remote as i can reach it nice and easy . Climb mode is great on really hard climbs . Trail mode is perfect to a good allround setting . Desent mode is great to but as stated by pinkbike a little on the soft side i only use that mode on the downs that are really chopy routs rocks and it flows well.

Over all i now get a perfet evan setup . My fox forks have lock out with adjust lock out force.

1 put the rear in climb and front in lockout perfect and evan

2 put the rear in trail and turn off lockout up front perfect and evan

I dont think there is a need for CTD forks to ballance the bike my 2012 fox flout RCL do the job

I think fox have got it sorted with this rear CTD shock. BANG ON Big Grin
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Has anybody realised that all of this stuff is totally pointless and has no real place on a bike why can't we just ride our bike and have fun what if your a bit simple and get confused you'll end up going arse over tit trying to drop your seat post or change your fork/shock settings
  • + 1
 I guess you wont want to drive a car then???
Surely by your reasoning, you couldn't possibly drive safely forward at the same time as flick indicators levers, dip lights, press brakes, press clutch, accelerate, change gears, pick a radio station, change volume, read a sat nav, turn on air con... etc etc etc....
YOU would definitely crash your car then eh?! Big Grin
  • + 1
 well considering driving actually requires everything you've mentioned apart from the radio and twatnav and cycling doesn't technically require anything on the bars it can be a bit confusing if your on a trail and try to adjust something on the fly
  • + 4
 So you CAN multi-task whilst driving a car! At high speeds that endanger all others on the road around you i might add... Wink
And you CAN already multi-task by using the gears and brakes, you know, located on your haaaaaandlebar...
But you cannot for the life of you, imagine being able to push an extra lever at a predetermined moment???...
As the whole idea of changing your shock setting/seatpost height is to do it on-the-fly without stopping, buuuuuuuut....BEFORE each suitable section... Not actually during....
So you can't imagine that being possible huh? Gee what happens? Your brain just stops working? Your fingers fall off??? Big Grin


The fact is, your just blurting out a negative opinion on something you've most likely not experienced...
Where-as I can confidently say, I've tried it, I like it and I DO ride with these added benifits without it being an issue or finding it difficult...
Its like driving a car or hitting a button combo on my xbox controller... Its becomes second nature once you've learnt!


Just like riding a bike.... Wink




(And please don't take my replies personally as your just one of many who jump on the same band-wagon with that type of negativity to something new...
Like angry villagers with thier pitch-forks and torches pointed at the stranger who just strolled into town lol!)
[Reply]
  • + 1
 What we really need is a coaster brake that activates both front and rear disc brakes (back first then rear). That way we can eliminate the brake levers and have more room for the shock, seatpost, air pressure controls as well as the GoPro. lol
I was kringing at the extra cable for my dropper post but add another 2 cables is redonkulus. how about wireless activation....
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Those new shocks look dope, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that the clunky lever will be revised (read: IMPROVED) within a year. Also, why isn't it recommended to be mounted under the bar? that looks like a better position to me even if I don't see the setting indicator.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 i love my fox RP2 that came stock on my 2009 giant anthem X. thank god it only came with a lever that turns on or off the propedal, rebound and air. i had RP23 before on my other bike but the way i see it, the more simpler things are, the more you'll enjoy the product. and any fox air shock beyond 2009 i believe is all BS as we speak.

here's something you need to do dear FOX: put rebound, air, low speed and high speed compression on you air shock and were all good (and probably a propedal lever again that has firm or open). the only one who can do this right now is cane creek (double barrel air shock) and this is too expensive for the masses. bring down the price and we'll like buy it.
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  • + 1
 The industry standard is to create something 'new' every year so they have something different to market and make money on....problem is when consumers keep buying the new indicating a demand for it, when really, there's not...
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  • + 1
 This remote lock-out stuff aint exactly a knew idea as I've been running a remote shock lock-out on my Scott Ransom for ages!

With a seatpost dropper added, it climbs, traverses and descends very efficiently and is a great flow creating, fun bike to ride! Big Grin

And the Scott Genius is a full front/rear shock lock-out remote bike with great reviews for it being a one-bike-to-do-it-all mountain bike...

Its amazing how people jump on a negative judgement about it when i'd put my money on the fact they have never even tried one out?

So I don't put much stock in negative opinions of people who have no actually experience in the subject...

Just buy and ride what you want and like! Because at the end of the day, its all still, just mountain biking, so its all still, just about having fun!

My 2 cents Wink
[Reply]
  • + 2
 compression, rebound & f*cking ride it! what more do you want? want sweet suspension...? get a dirt bike & get a valve job. i want the suspension from my moto on my mountain bike.
  • + 1
 You can have it, just like moto's you can revalve mtb stuff too, just have to know what you want out of the susspension, PUSH and ELKA are probably the best known for custom valving, it's out there, but just like Moto it can be more expensive than it is worth for the average rider.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I'm gonna go against the flow here and say i think this is a good thing. I have a Fox RP23 on my bike and i do use its propedal switch and its a huge pain in the ass reaching down under my toptube to fumble with it, so i would appreciate a remote option. Is it perfect? No, but this is first generation stuff, and i'm willing to bet it gets less clunky with newer generations.

This product exists because if the Fox recognizes that people don't want 40 levers on their handle bar, so here, you get one that controls front and rear compression PLUS the it can also manages the DODD telescoping post, all at the same time. For people who do have front and rear compression adj and tele seat posts, and who do use the compression adjustments on the fly, this is a freaking God send cuz you can use the feature that you paid for more effectively. And before everyone jumps on it and says "people should just ride their bikes and not worry about all this stuff", thats cool. Go buy the non-CTD stuff and don't worry about it, but some people do like to change the bikes suspension characteristics on the fly and this is the most integrated system available.

Am I going to go out and buy it? No, cuz i've still got a few good years left to squeeze out of my current rig and the system would be to damn expensive to buy piece by piece, but you can bet that when i do buy a new bike i'll be looking at one with a CTD system.

Alright now lets hear the haters hate
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Are all you lot down hill riders, for trails this sort of solution is great, saves time getting of your bike and fooking about with the seat post and suspension settings....I personally think it's a great system and will be having it on my bike.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 so instead of getting my forks tuned to one setting, which i spend time like every one else, getting the tune i want. now i can have 3 more settings to tune, maybe fox now offer more internals for this. thats 18 settings which can be preset at the factory, nice one fox. way to make it simple
[Reply]
  • + 3
 I am just glad to see RC2 back on the 160mm forks, keep the RLC or CTD for that matter on 34mm and below and give me RC2 for bikes meant to descend. Thanks for listening!
  • + 1
 i was even perplexed why fox offered RLC on 160mm forks.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Just watches the movie klunkers last night. It's a documentary on the birth of the mountain bike. It was cool to see that the mountain bike came from old pre WW2 crusier bikes with fat tires, single speed, one clutch rear brake. The bikes weighed in at 50 lbs or more. What happened? And to think this was only 30 years ago. All this new stuff makes my specialized p2 look so primative. Really do we need all this stuff on a bike? I can barely afford disc brake pads these days let alone a bike with a lock out front and rear suspension and a adjusting seatpost ect, ect, ect..... We ride bikes for the thrill of being free in the woods or to feel the wind in your face, or to get.the rush from hucking a 15 foot drop. Myself I don't need all this new stuff. Most of the stuff I have is almost a decade old cause its cheaper to buy used than new. Maybe by 2030 ill try fully lockable suspension. For now ill ardor to my dirt jumper and my welded Rm7 with monster t's.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 what they need to do is incorporate this lever into their new post the climb setting on the suspension = full dropper post extension, trail on suspension = medium drop setting and descend mode = full seat drop.. there would still be loads of cables but one less MASSIVE lever on the bar

in case you didn't notice fox the levers to change this are massive (make them smaller and neater ) we noticed and it makes it all look untidy.... less is more
[Reply]
  • + 1
 In the not too far future people will go out to pull leavers rather than riding (post , tire pressure,geo adjust,etc..) , and also no KASHIMA no dice! . MARZOCCHI FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (proud 55 owner!), also consider this, more levers more things to replace and service , less is more!
[Reply]
  • + 5
 so they renamed propedal?
[Reply]
  • + 1
 So did anyone get to ride the new 36 Float RC2 160 or 180? I'd love to hear if it's been "improved" upon or if it's still tough and reliable (but still needing frequent svc...) like my 2008 36 Float RC2 that I still run and is great.
  • + 1
 Nope, no 36 forks while we were there.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 CTD, its just simplifying what pretty much every Fox fork has. I would be all for it expect that the only reason Fox designed it was to say "hey look at our new 2013 fork, you better spend a ridiculously high amount of money and replace your perfectly good 200X-201X fork"

And the remote? Really? Is taking your hand off the bars for a second to flip a switch that tricking? if so you shouldn't have shelled out the kind of Money needed to own a Fox fork in the first place because more than lightly you wont get the use out of it over a cheaper one. Shit there a guys out there that have damaged or ever lost an arm and still rip it up.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Of course it's gonna have 50% reduced friction (with 3/5 piece reducers)... their tophat style reducers have TONS of friction.

But meh, pure marketing. You can buy IGUS polymer bushings for 3 bucks a pop and it's the same thing... probably better as it is a full sleve and not split.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I got to try these out on the new Endorphin, but without all the cables. It felt good, and the adjustability was nice, but I ended up leaving it in descend mode the entire time. Even trail 1 was a big enough difference that I can't imagine ever wanting to use the climb mode.
[Reply]
  • + 4
 Guys , we should go wireless. I doubt the conecction will be fast enought down here, i just might run straight into a corner
[Reply]
  • + 1
 kniting cable ropes will be well payed job in near future. I'm going to teach it myself and then i will get all your money. Smile oh, and you don't need bike lockers anymore. just turn some wires around the bike's stand and make gordian knot. and few other thinks I'm thinking about........
[Reply]
  • + 1
 That DOSS seatpost is two steps behind all others on the market now. Anyone who would buy a new dropper post WITHOUT a stationary cable operation is buying old technology. Only two posts (KS LEV and Kronolog) are worthy of consideration. So let me get this straight- Remote for shock and fork on right side and remote for dropper with dangling up and down seat cable near your rear tire on the left side. You would need matchmakers and 800+ mm bars just to fit all this cabling. I dont have this much cabling spaghetti on my street legal enduro with mirrors, blinkers, key, starter, throttle...seriously
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Thanks Fox. Will be riding and rebuilding my sprung DHX 3.0 for along while. I got the right spring, dialed in the shock and haven't touched it since. Having a shock do three different setups - none of them will be good. One trick ponies. A bike built around this feature will be so 2010, she product planning started. In my eyes, contrary to industry wishful thinking - Xc, dh, parkbike categories exist. Mixbikes are utter crap. This shock is for crapbikes.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Looking forward to the new CTD system. I don't like the fact that I have to reach down to hit the propedal lever on my shock and the fork travel adjustment for my current bike. The lever will come in handy for those that like to climb like xc champs and descend like dh racers. It would be great if fox could make a lever to control all three (post and suspension).
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Y'esterday, dh-track. Max.kitted coal enduro. Counted 8!!!levers. Needless to say - 6 grand rode like shcaat even with all tables left out. Time to ban enduros from tracks! Really gettin ranty.
[Reply]
  • + 0
 This is all evolution of the sport. Look at say 15 years ago. "High speed compression what??? Jesus, I just need preload, what is going on here!?" Things CAN improve. This to me seems a little crazy, but then again, I'm sure HSCV's seemed nuts a while back. Just accept that this is the direction that biking tech is headed, if you don't want to jump on the wagon, you DONT have to! FOX, Rockshox, Marzocchi, (SR Suntour now thankfully) all have products for everyone of us. If you hate adjustments, go to a simpler fork, plain and simple. And 4-5 adjustments isn't bad. Imagine your CD deck with ONE EQ preset. Isn't it nice to have those 4-5 others?

At the end of the day, no one is pushing ANYTHING on you. It's a choice, and if you chose to stay true to what you like, then power to you. If you jump on a wagon just because you want the latest tech, which you have no idea of how it works or what it does, that's fine also.
  • + 1
 You're pretty much missing a huge factor:

The non-riding poseurs spend a lot of money buying things and spend a lot of time on e-forums demanding things as "upgrades" for their unridden but often-photographed uber-"rigs" waiting at home.

They drive the market to a place that goes beyond my $$ reach. And that place also adds complexity and gadgetry I don't want or need.

Some of us have been riding long enough to have seen several cycles of fads in the MTB industry. We recognize how the Gomers and Bettys drive the "progress" in non-productive directions, all of which contribute to ever-increasing costs.

Now if you'll excuse me I have to go write my White Paper on the benefits of 675A wheels (26.75, halfway between 650B and 700C), which I intend to submit to The Honorable Blowhard P. Issov, who is Ultimate Arbiter of MTB Trending for Interbike 2012.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Why not a 34mm 140/150mm fork? The only thing people said they wanted was a stiffer mid-travel fork, I've never heard anyone complaining about the 36 being super heavy.
  • + 2
 I was going to say the exact same thing. I met that Eric guy from Turner Bikes about a year ago on the chairlift in Whistler and he told me Fox was going to add the 34 forks. I've been looking forward to it ever since, but they missed the best application! My 140mm 32 flexes like crazy! And another thing, Fox needs to get someone to help them with their bar-mounted levers. They look bulky and vulnberable.
[Reply]
  • + 0
 It's funny reading this article and then reading a lot of the comments posted.

In the article there is no mention of Scott Sports "Twinlock" remote system they've invented and patented years ago. I've been riding a Scott Genius now and it allows me to lock out both front and rear suspension for those steep climbs and for when I'm on flat ground and need to pump more speed without the loss of energy in each pedal stroke.

It allows me to set the suspension to trail/traction mode for most of my riding along semi rough, rooty, bumpy terrains.

When I'm about to go down hill and the terrain is very bumpy and rooty I set the suspension wide open in "Descend" mode so my front fork and rear shock has a nice confident and comfy 6" travel.

So what's the deal Pinkbike? Why hide the fact that Scott did this first?
  • + 1
 Hiding? I think that you're looking a bit too deep.
[Reply]
  • + 4
 way too complicated...Seriously bike industry, STOP!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Bike Shops around the country are hiring computer engineers to help with all the new gadgets..... By 2014 we will have to charge our bikes just to get the shifter to work......
  • + 1
 Can you say Di2?
[Reply]
  • + 3
 I don't know about the rest of you, but I need low and highspeed compression settings! WTF?
[Reply]
  • + 3
 I thought pro pedal was CTD but without freaking out because you can't fit your hands on your bars anymore
[Reply]
  • + 4
 Who cares about the suspension... I WANT THAT FORD RAPTOR!
  • + 1
 It truly is an amazing truck, all they hype is for real!
  • + 3
 U mean it really makes it bigger?
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Every one will run single speed just so they can fit all this shit on there damn bars... also, the climb trail and decend thing sounds like scotts marketing plan from the last 3 years...
[Reply]
  • + 4
 We will soon need to invest in 900mm bars for all these large commands
  • + 2
 Yea with additional grip in between Big Grin
  • + 2
 not only bars, we will need to get also longer fingers Smile
  • + 2
 or just evolve some extra ones!!!! soo many levers!
[Reply]
  • + 5
 I want a raptor so bad!
  • + 1
 You have to get one! its the best shuttle truck ever!
  • + 1
 jesus! what the hell do you do for a living! your ARE loaded!
  • + 1
 If I ever hit the big time a red Raptor is the first thing I buy. And I don't care how much fuel it burns. these trucks are tits
  • + 1
 The 6.2l Raptor is actually pretty good on gas, its my economy car! It gets an avg of 15mpg and my car only gets 10mpg on a good day!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Polymer bushings in a car last half as long as rubber. Fact.. You won't find both in a racecar or bike. Metalbushings and grease.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Soon you wont even need to ride a bike! We will have robots to do that and for 300 bucks extra it comes in the version that washes your bike! Thats technology man... (Y)
[Reply]
  • + 4
 NO 36 RLC????
  • + 2
 gotta love how fox has been trying to tell us that a 36 rlc fork is the way forward.... until they come up with something newer!!! although i do agree with the 34mm stanctions from a technical point of view.....im not convinced by this ctd palava
[Reply]
  • + 2
 I think Myself and just about everybody else on here will stick to three cables. Not buying it.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 oh, and I pretty sure they will invent some super light, heavy duty, carbon, teflon, kashima wires, to save some weight. Smile
[Reply]
  • + 3
 No more 36 Van 160?! WTF?!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Tooo much. Higher pressure means shit action at low speed for heavy riders who already have to run higher pressures than flyweights.
[Reply]
  • + 3
 "weight of just 2.98 lbs (50 grams lighter than in 2012)"

i love AMERICA!
[Reply]
  • + 0
 Replace metal DU bushings with plastic bushings? How long till they where out? DU bushings wear out too fast. So use plastic?
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Oh, no! More leg strength, less laziness. And less bizarre technology, please.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 That ford is less of a car and more of a transformer.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 The bar's are getting too busy. Maybe they could mount the shifter on one of the pedals like a motorcycle.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Why is the fox 40 heavier?!
[Reply]
  • + 2
 With all that crap on my bars, I won't have room for a bell! Ring Ring!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 rocky ridge and stiles ranch in Santa Teresa. boom baby!, welcome to my backyard!!!
  • + 0
 closer to my backyard buddy Wink fox tests out here all the time
  • + 2
 frickin Chris. when are we gonna flippin ride!?!?!
  • + 4
 Can't you guys throw some rocks at them with greetings from me? These guys need some sorting out, cable sticking out from the ass is not far ahead in their R&D...
  • + 4
 for me too please...
[Reply]
  • + 1
 So is there a simple way to remove cable and have a lever type adjuster on fork
[Reply]
  • + 1
 how is it too complicated to experiment on your compression settings? they put in CTD and SRP goes up...
[Reply]
  • + 0
 too many cable in cockpit......and when we already hit the trail only one thing in mind....faster..faster..n faster....no time to switch the CTD lever control ....lol
[Reply]
  • + 1
 pft! when all we really wanted was frickin lazer beams on our bars! thanx 4 nothin fox Frown
[Reply]
  • + 1
 boner alert! WTF is up with all these fork steer tubes lately? Someone cut that shiz down to size already!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 There is a severe beating of a marketing guy going on right now in one of Fox's conference rooms
[Reply]
  • + 3
 Fuckit im walking!
[Reply]
  • + 2
 hope the guys at Fox are reading this tread, they may learn something
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Im holding out for a fully integrated HUD with look down shoot down capability
[Reply]
  • + 0
 Notice how fox is setting up new gear on a yeti, and shimano had its saint line at sea otter displayed on a yeti.... maybe people are figuring out that Yetis are the BEST.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Wow, the OCD crowd is going to be busy!
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Trails look familiar Wink
[Reply]
  • + 1
 What will be the price for this kit?
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Im wired in now let me go!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I'm wired in... Now let me go!!!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 To new for people to except
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Their premiere DH fork is almost 7 pounds! And not getting lighter.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Zocchi' TST does the same thing for about $300 less
  • + 1
 zocchis tst goes to self destuct after 30 hours of riding look at the user manuals..... it says you should replace the cart after 30 hours of use.... remember disposable cameras.. well marzocchi have come up with the disposable forks!!! hahaha
[Reply]
  • + 1
 So it's just ProPedal with 3 settings?

Ho hum.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 keep it simple...and just ride.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 wow thats retarded. fox is becoming a company of comedians
[Reply]
  • + 0
 Bull Sh*t!!!........................................................End of!!!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 keep it simple...just ride and enjoy.
[Reply]
  • + 0
 More hoses than the space shuttle !
[Reply]

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