Brake Force One
Brake Force One have built the first ever brake which uses water instead of hydraulic fluid. Sounds crazy but their engineers say that brake fluids don't get as hot as people think - Magura and Shimano seals aren't designed to take more than 100°C and the only reason we use DOT or mineral oil is because of old technology taken from the automotive where fluid temperatures can get much higher.
Brake Force One say that water is actually more heat resistant than hydraulic fluid with two times higher heat capacity, five times better heat transportation and less heat elongation. In direct comparison tests the water filled brakes outlast normal fluids, and the outstanding benefit of water is that it's clean and can be found anywhere. Propylene glycol antifreeze is used to prevent freezing in winter temperatures, and there is also a neat quick release button for the hoses if you need to cut, or re-route them. The H2O brakes weigh in at 188g each and will be available in October for €594 pair. (Editor's note - Don't shoot the messenger)
Trickstuff
Trickstuff engineer Cornelius Kapfinger built this upside fork in his spare time, just because he could. It has 200mm travel and weighs 2700g with carbon guards and an 8" post mount. Stiffness is said to be similar to a DVO Emerald, some being gained by using a steel 20mm axle which is 30% stiffer than aluminium of the same weight. Air sprung, oil damped and no steerer tube - short stubs on each crown connected by a long bolt with all forces heading through the fork legs. Cornelius says he has no plans for production although he has made a few single crown versions for friends.
That's right, no steerer tube! Stubs that protrude from the crowns just enough to sit inside the bearing races are then bolted together from the lower crown.
This seat clamp goes by the name of Gandhi and is 10% lighter than any other seat clamp on the market and is designed to be carbon friendly.
| The Gandhi gently caresses your seat post rather than strangling it with brutal force. - Trickstuff |
Make any frame with a standard bottom bracket in to a single speed using these eccentric bottom bracket cups.
Cornelius has also built this derailleur cage for himself. The massive cog gives similar benefits of a longer cage carried on a single sided carbon arm.
Direttissima translates to 'the shortest way down' in mountaineering speak. This all new brake uses four roller bearings in the lever and PTFE coated piston seals to lower friction - less friction equals better modulation and sensitivity. Trickstuff say that the Direttissima is 5-10% more powerful than a Shimano XTR Trail at a very similar weight. The lever shape and pivot placement were chosen to place the finger at 90 degrees to the lever at the bite point for a comfortable ergonomic. Thomas Genon will be using these to slow himself down the Rampage course in October, and the public can get their hands on them in 2-3 months time. Machined in Germany and a snip at €399 per brake.
'Small, Ugly, Useful.' At least they're honest about these bleed blocks.
The lightest 'star nut' in the world. The allen key bolt drives a sliding wedge to clamp it inside the steerer tube, then uses a standard top cap and bolt to preload everything down.
TuneAt 0.3 grams world's lightest spoke magnet for speed sensors.
An 8g battery holder to hide away a Shimano Di2 battery inside of your seatpost.
This laser unit sits on your handlebars and shines a red dot on to your front tire for perfect stem alignment. €69
I understand the saddle, but the cake's decorations were a little confusing.
Tune are well known in expert mechanic/uber geek circles for being some of the fastest hubs around. Found on a number of pro downhiller's race run only wheelset's with a spot of duct tape over the logo's. This xc / all mountain wheelset uses AX Lightness 29mm internal carbon rims and comes in under 1200g for a 27.5" pair.
EDCONot quite German, but Switzerland is close enough, geographically speaking at least. EDCO is a brand that's nearly 140 years old with it roots in engineering for military purposes. This mono block cassette has low range ideal for road bikes but there are wider spreads currently being tested for mountain bike purposes. EDCO say that it's the only true one-piece cassette on the market. A chromoly block is crushed in to a cone shape and then milled out by a 7- axis machine that was constructed purely to build these cassettes. No word on availability but they should be uber-light, hard wearing and priced accordingly.
Photo Credits: Beatrice Baar - @whateverphoto
Direttissima would be Direkt in German ;-)
Still great looking Stuff but I prefere Japanese mainstream
Not really. I can get that laser for $10USD and could mill a $5USD aluminum block to fit it in less than 30 minutes.
Align with the crown and bars using your eyes, cost nothing.
...Not to mention the angry SHOUTING of words in the internetz. Is this a rally or is Großmutter typing here?
all very well saying it, im sure we'd all love to see something about this.
a: water will freeze at low temps
b: heat up and evaporate at high temps
c: compresses a lot, so not much use in a compression brake system....
i am ONLY ASKING BTW.......
can u explain the points above please?
I know TECHNICALLY it will function for a SHORT TIME, i think that wetbed0 is trying to say it completely works ALL THE TIME (though i could be wrong, i await comment.. ).. this is what im questioning
as for water cooling the discs, that'd require some form of external storage reservoir for the cooling water? (cant see the the TT / racing crew being a fan of that extra kilo/half kilo addition, )
or a fully enclosed cooling system (complicated), and then might u need some form of radiator to cool the heated coolant..
www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-mechanics/85231-when-bleeding-magura-hs33s-water.html
www.trials-forum.co.uk/topic/162904-questions-on-water-bled-maguras
I've read about water bled discs, but can only find so much from the bus. It's also a lot easier to bleed your brakes when you can just dunk them in a 5 gallon bucket.
Same goes for water cooling, btw; if temp doesn't go past zero degrees where you live, it's obvious you won't need antifreeze in you radiator (or wipers).
I'd be interested to see if anyone's running water for trail riding, but I'd be very wary of applying trials tech to any other kind of biking.
All very interesting, I am keen to see a proper review of these brakes. And that new Brew shock. If both turn out to be effective upgrades we could actually see some changes to the status quo that bring a real performance/servicability benefit, and don't even require you to buy a completely new bike in order to take advantage of them! Woo!
BTW water puts the 'hydro' in hydraulic.
These kind of products are not meant to be mainstream, but as a weight-weenie XC racer, this is what we want. A lot of xc racers have bikes for training and "race-only" bikes, and those "race-only" bikes are not built to be durable or anything, they just have to be the fastest bike possible for that 1.5h, that XCO races last.
Unless the finish line happens to be at the end of a long alpine descent in a perfectly straight line...
not hating on this idea, just discussing.
I just read this article www.ride.ch/site/index.php/10362-eurobike-bei-brakeforce-one-ist-wasser-das-neue-oel.html
There it says, that you don't screw the brake line in or secure it in any other way. It's just pushed into the leverbody. Not even pressed, just pushed.
I wonder if this design really can hold its own against some shrubbery.
To add fuel to the fire:"
Lol. Good name...
What volume of fluid are you using for inside the caliper? (ignoring the hose/fittings)
So, here's some test data from Adriaan Neys from Chalmers university. Note how cool the fluid is compared to everything else, this is for a car, so the masses of different components will vary, but I doubt bike components will reach these kinds of temperatures.
i924.photobucket.com/albums/ad83/wetbed0/Untitled_zpsesvtxok8.jpg
www.pinkbike.com/photo/11743393
1. Direttissima is - of course - an Italian word. German sounds different.
2. The Direttissima BMC will be available separately (without hoses and caliper) for tuning your Shimano or – mainly – Magura MT5/7 brakes. Be prepared for the monster brake power with excellent modulation!
3. KOLBENRÜCKDRÜCKHOLZWERKZEUG = WOODENPISTONPUSHBACKTOOL. And yes, it is ironic.
4. Please do not mix up Trickstuff-Direttissima and BrakeforceOne. We at Trickstuff believe in the advantages of mineral oil or DOT as brake fluid. We do not believe in water. I experienced boiling DOT ( >270 °C !) personally.
5. We do not claim to have the lightest seat post clamps of the world. We do not claim to have the lightest aluminum clamps of the world. What we claim is that our very light aluminum clamps stand the highest loads whilst – due to the intelligent positioning of the bolt – caressing the post rather than struggling it. The tune, Hope, Zoom, KCNC and New Ultimate clamps have a completely different bolt position.
6. Yes, the brake hose on Cornelius’ bike is too short. We know that ;-)
Greets from small Black Forest to the world, Klaus
That starnut also isn't the lightest unless they've trumped the Extralite 6g version while apparently using more material!
Check your facts Trickstuff and or PB!
Not even lighter than every other alu clamp 10g is pretty average for a lightish clamp (e.g. KCNC)
If you think KCNC is the average (1g more than the Ghandi) then it is still lighter than the average ;-)
"This seat clamp goes by the name of Gandhi and is 10% lighter than any other seat clamp on the market and is designed to be carbon friendly. "
They say lighter than ANY other.... well, just for starters....
Carbonice 4.5g (CF)
MCFK 5g (CF)
POP 6g (CF)
Tune 6g (CF)
Mt Zoom 6g (Alu)
Juniper 6g (Alu)
BK 6.5g (CF)
New Ultimate 6.8g (Alu)
Carbon-Ti 8g (Alu)
MSC 8.4g (Alu)
Procraft 9g (CF)
Procraft 9g (Alu)
Tune 9g (Alu)
.......
Trickstuff 9g (Alu)
YT is here now.
Tjavascript:;he patent expiring on the Horst-link should open up the flood gates.
the fork: 'nah i just build a fork i my spare time'. you have a lot of spare time.
the cassete: ok...
the seat clamp: needs QR...
the other brakes: OH NO WHAT HAVE WE DONE
spoke magnet: why
battery holder: why
stem laser thingy: why
saddle cake: *squish* hey, that wasn't my bike...
wheels: actually, i kinda like this
cassete: also like this
www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEhQD13wtFk
So cool.
11 axis
www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnIvhlKT7SY
PB, can you test a set of these please?
a) befriend Cornelius;
or...
b) get a CNC station;
Its a gun!
What do u need a gun for ? Zee Germans
With regards to frames, aluminium gave frame designers much more freedom over cross-section shape and size (this is also even more true of carbon) and therefore to make frames stiffer in key areas without incurring large weight penalties. Consider as a textbook example, the Yeti DJ 2013, particularly the rear triangle and dropouts.
You are also completely right about wall thickness - that is the limiting factor when it comes to steel. Sure, you can make the tubes wider or larger to create a _really_ stiff frame, but you then end up with an anchor as you put it. There then comes a point where they only way to lose mass is to reduce wall thickness, and most companies have found that wall thickness cannot be reduced enough to retain dent resistance while remaining competitive with the weight of alu frames.
I sure do still love me a steel frame though =P
In this case, since diameter of both axles has to be the same, steel could have the advantage. You could use a butted tube that's super thin in the middle, since it won't really need toughness there. The ends just have to have enough shear strength to to handle landings and bumps.
But yeah. Given the same diameter and weight, steel basically has to be stronger than aluminum. Constraining diameter takes away alu's mechanical stiffness advantage.
Make bike parts... Not war.
(Pedalling is so much cooler than killing)
Why does PB even post this shit?
By FMVSS116 standards, DOT 4 fluids must have a minimum dry boiling point of 446°F and a minimum wet boiling point of 311°F. Water, as well all know, boils at 212F(100C).
And it's not like you gotta be a friggen engineer to know this.
You learn it in 7th grade chemistry.
Because my life used to depend on it, I know brake fluid.
Dry brake fluid has a MUCH higher boiling point than Wet brake fluid.
Obviously you don't know what the difference is, so I'll tell you.
'DRY' brake fluid is fluid in the container before you crack the seal.
'WET' brake fluid is brake fluid that has absorbed WATER-3.7% is the measuring point.
You'll notice the WET boiling point is MUCH lower than the DRY boiling point.
Why? Because it's absorbed WATER
Here's a graph:
www.cquence.net/media/wysiwyg/brake_fluid_chart.jpg
The more water you have in your brake fluid, the QUICKER it will boil, as it requires LESS HEAT to do so.
It doesn't even need to be that complicated however, as the ONLY thing you need to know(and what my original point was) is that driving the same car/riding the same bike around a given course, your brakes will last MUCH longer with fresh-uncontaminated- DOT 3/4/5.1 brake fluid, than they will with pure water in your lines, or even brake fluid contaminated with JUST 3% water. I'm actually a little scared that I even had to explain this, but I guess it makes sense when you consider the Kardashians and Miley Cyrus are what people are attracted to.
Then there are the other properties DOT brake fluid and Mineral oil have that water DOESN'T, i.e. lubricant, anti-oxidation(water itself CAUSES oxidation), a modifier-coupler, which reduces the amount of swelling of exposed rubber.
But that wasn't part of my original point.
IMO, this isn't even a debatable topic-water being more advantages in braking systems- so I'll leave y'all with this, then be on my way.
It's a free world(for the most part), and everyone is allowed to do whatever the heck they want to(within reason of course). If you feel your brakes will work better with water in your system, then all the power to you.
You'll certainly save money on maintenance. Of course you'll end up spending a LOT more money on repairs.
I just hope neither I, nor anybody I know is on the road in front of you, or on the other side of the road coming towards you.
Also trials riders have been using water bled maguras for years so not new
Make a 10-42 that's all steel and weighs about the same as an XX1/X01 cassette but without the aluminum 42 cog and we can talk...
Also, wouldn't' a fork without a steerer tube just pop out of the headtube? I realize there is preload from the legs but still...
I run an 11-28 on road and some of the shifts are too big
@VelkePivo Yeah I know you can go beyond the stated max... I run an 11-32 on my cross bike with stated max of 11-28