Knolly Endorphin - Review
Knolly claims that their 130mm-travel Endorphin is a rather well-rounded machine, even going so far as to say that it ''will dominate your local enduro race, and the 70-mile out-of-bounds epic you have planned the following weekend.'' That will make the Endorphin the Bo Jackson of mid-travel bikes if it's true, which is why Knolly's do-it-all trail bike is so interesting. It's also a premium machine that's built around an aluminum frame, rare in these days of carbon-is-best thinking, and features Knolly's unconventional Fourby4 suspension design, points that set all of Knolly founder Noel Buckley's bikes apart from others.
You want different? Here it is.
You want different? Here it is.
Endorphin Details
• Intended use: trail / all-mountain
• Rear wheel travel: 130mm
• Wheel size: 27.5''
• Frame material: aluminum
• Knolly's Fourby4 suspension
• Dual-ring compatible
• Internal or external cable routing
• Replaceable ISCG 05 tabs
• Threaded bottom bracket
• 12 x 142mm hub spacing
• Weight: 27lb 2oz
• MSRP: $8,395 USD
• knollybikes.com / @KNOLLYBIKES
• Intended use: trail / all-mountain
• Rear wheel travel: 130mm
• Wheel size: 27.5''
• Frame material: aluminum
• Knolly's Fourby4 suspension
• Dual-ring compatible
• Internal or external cable routing
• Replaceable ISCG 05 tabs
• Threaded bottom bracket
• 12 x 142mm hub spacing
• Weight: 27lb 2oz
• MSRP: $8,395 USD
• knollybikes.com / @KNOLLYBIKES
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Our Endorphin test bike is a no-expense-spared kind of thing that's been assembled with Knolly's 'Trail Party' build kit, a setup that would usually go for $6,395 USD. I say ''usually" because this particular Endorphin came from Knolly with an optional upgrade to a set of Race Face's Next SL carbon fiber cranks ($287 upcharge) and Industry Nine's PillarCarbon wheelset ($1,713 upcharge), pushing the bike's MSRP to $8,395 USD. Because YOLO.
Those are big numbers, but the entry price for a complete Endorphin is a less cardiac arrest-inducing $4,895 USD for their 'Dawn Patrol' build, or a frame and Fox Float DPS EVOL or Cane Creek DBinline shock goes for $2,195 USD if you want to throw your own bits and pieces at it.
Do you like it inside or outside? You can do either when it comes to routing cables on the Endorphin.
Boost? Maxle? Nope and nope. Standard spacing and hex keys required back here.
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Frame Details
Knolly's Noel Buckley hasn't been shy about his desire to keep his bikes as user-friendly as possible. One time, at a tradeshow in Europe, I questioned him about why his new Warden Carbon had a threaded bottom bracket shell rather than a PressFit version like so many other brands have decided to use, to which he replied: ''We're not f*cking around,'' with the straightest face you can imagine. The Endorphin also has a threaded shell, of course, as well as removable and replaceable ISCG 05 chain guide tabs - take 'em off if you don't need them.
In the same make-it-easy vein, the Endorphin can accept a front derailleur and two-ring crankset if you want to go that route, not something that all trail bikes can do these days, as well as either internal or external cable routing.
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 You got to make the most of what you have to work with, and the DBinline does exactly that with the Endorphin's 130mm of travel. |
Boost? Nope, there's 12 x 142mm hub spacing on the back of the Endorphin, and the wheel is held in place via a thru-axle and pinch-bolt setup that requires hex keys to remove or install. Solid, no doubt there, but also not as quick as a Maxle, Syntace, or RWS axle system, if you care about such things. I suspect that most Endorphin riders won't, however. There's also a ton of tire clearance, although not enough to run plus-size rubber.
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| The Endorphin's 130mm of travel is controlled by the company's Fourby4 suspension system. |
The Endorphin's Suspension Explained
How many links and pivots does a bike require? Only enough to ''separate out and independently tune (to a higher level) various performance aspects of the rear suspension and shock progression that are otherwise co-mingled in conventional linkage designs,'' according to Knolly's Noel Buckley. The Endorphin's Fourby4 linkage looks like a standard four-bar design that's seen an extra set of pivots and links added, but Buckley is adamant that the design allows for more tuning opportunities. The bike's linkage not only pushes on the rocker arm but also ties the system to the seat tube that's more forward yet slacker than usual, giving the Endorphin an effective seat tube angle that's similar to other bikes.
There is obviously some added complexity with the Fourby4 design, but it has been executed very nicely. Clevis pivots join the rocker arm with DU bushings to save weight in a location that sees less stress, and the co-pivot at the top of the seat stays saves further grams by eliminating another set of hardware.
I've spent a considerable amount of time on at least three different Knollys over the years and have had zero issues with hardware backing out or any other reliability quibbles that I thought might arise, which is more than I can say for some so-called less complicated bikes.
I've spent a considerable amount of time on at least three different Knollys over the years and have had zero issues with hardware backing out or any other reliability quibbles that I thought might arise, which is more than I can say for some so-called less complicated bikes.
Mike Levy: You're one of a small handful of companies still offering what should be considered high-end aluminum bikes. With so much focus on carbon fiber these days, including your new Warden Carbon, why should a customer who's planning on spending a big chunk of money still be contemplating an aluminum bike?
Noel Buckley: The first thing to recognize that is that while carbon gets most of the attention, the reality is that manufacturing techniques and the quality of the materials are much more important than the actual type of material used. There is a misconception in the bike industry that all alloy frames cost the same amount to manufacture and that all carbon frames cost the same amount to manufacture. That's kind of like saying that both a Hyundai Genesis and a Porsche 911 Turbo weigh 1,500kg and have roughly the same amount of materials in them, hence both should cost the same. Of course, that's not true at all, and cost of manufacturing can vary wildly, even with the same materials involved. A well engineered and manufactured alloy frame will far outperform a lesser carbon frame, hands down.
We feel that there is a market for both products: our alloy frames have been receiving rave reviews for years, and we have built tremendous customer loyalty with those products. The introduction of (significantly more expensive) carbon frames does not instantly reduce the performance of the alloy frames. In fact, we feel that we can continue to improve the performance of our alloy frames to even higher levels (and still perform at the top of the market, irrespective of materials) while maintaining value in the alloy product that is not attainable in our carbon product due to its much higher manufacturing cost.
Levy: What would you like to tell the riders who say that your FourBy4 suspension design has an "extra set of pivots and links"? Why are they there and what do they do?
Buckley: The Fourby4 Linkage design is really the heart of our products: it allows us to separate out and independently tune (to a higher level) various performance aspects of the rear suspension and shock progression that are otherwise co-mingled in conventional linkage designs. We are the only company in the world that really does this as a fundamental characteristic of our products. Because it adds additional degrees of freedom to the design of our frames, this makes the kinematic engineering significantly more difficult and time-consuming. However, the trade-off is overall higher suspension performance that always maximizes traction (and without traction, what benefit is there to great pedaling dynamics), gives a very neutral feel, and provides great tracking and braking, features which deliver extremely predictable performance in all conditions. Google search images for "Formula 1 suspension" and you will see a lot of similarities to what we do on our bikes!
Levy: What sets the Endorphin apart from other bikes in the same category?
Buckley: Since the Endorphin's release last fall, we have seen a huge amount of customers flock to this bike after trying the latest and greatest carbon bikes from the past few years: they just want trail bikes that work in all situations, bikes that don't get hung up, have great climbing ability and stable descending, and feature progressive geometry that's comfortable for long rides and yet highly maneuverable and nimble. The Endorphin does that: it's a trail rider's bike that can handle a huge variety of terrain. A customer can completely change the performance bias of the bike based on shock choice and subtle cockpit changes: i.e. Fox Float DPS Evol vs. Cane Creek DBAir CS, an increase in fork travel from 140 to 150mm, shortening the stem by 10mm and increasing bar width. It's the application versatility, progressive geometry, neutral feel and overall performance that makes us and our customers love this bike!
Specifications
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Climbing
"That thing looks like a tank," they said. And it kind of does look that way. We usually assume that aluminum means more weight than carbon (Knolly's own Warden Carbon frame weighs one pound less than the aluminum version) and the Endorphin's industrial looking unpainted finish adds to the bike's overbuilt appearance. I couldn't blame my riding partners for thinking that the 27lb 2oz Knolly weighed more than it does, or that the bike is more cautious riverboat captain than Four Loko-fueled jet ski pilot. Good thing they'd also be wrong, though.
The Endorphin's efficient feeling suspension and reasonable weight, not to mention the semi-slick tire out back, allow it to truck along at a pretty good pace when you need to cover ground on climbs that aren't overly steep. I did reach down for the Cane Creek shock's Climb Switch a few times, including during a local cross-country race, but it probably wasn't actually warranted - the Fourby4 design and all of its links and pivots do a good job of keeping pedaling forces from interfering with the rear suspension.
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 | Knolly's bikes are famously adept technical climbers. In fact, this is one of the few bikes that can rival a good 29er when it comes to sniffing out any and all available traction. A whippet it may not be, but bloodhounds are fun, too. |
Turning off of the fire road climb and onto something steeper and more technically challenging had me wishing that the stock build kit didn't include a semi-slick tire out back, but rubber choice is location dependent, isn't it? Installing something with an actual tread pattern allowed the Endorphin to get up some seriously tricky pitches, but I already knew that'd be the case - Knolly's bikes are famously adept technical climbers. In fact, this is one of the few bikes that can rival a good 29er when it comes to sniffing out any and all available traction. It may not be a whippet, but bloodhounds are fun, too.
That traction, especially when seated, will let you get the Endorphin into some pretty interesting places on the trail, and it seems happy to fit just about anywhere you want to place it. Want to cut inside on that steep switchback? Have at 'er. Like the look of that line up and over the root ball? Its easily placeable nature is going to let you do exactly that, with quicker steering than you would expect. The tight confines of its front triangle might not let you stay hydrated if you prefer bottles over a backpack, however, as there isn't even enough room for a small-sized bottle to fit without it angling out to the side. The medium Endorphin frame makes the rider wear a backpack on any ride long enough to require fluids, which is a bit of a bummer for a bike that I'd happily pedal for five or six hours at a time. A large-sized bike should have enough clearance for a bottle.
Fluid frustrations aside, the Endorphin is yet another Knolly with astonishing climbing abilities.
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| The bike's high-end suspension can deal with whatever you throw it into. |
Descending
According to the dictionary, endorphins are ''a group of hormones secreted within the brain and nervous system that have a number of physiological functions,'' and that they ''help relieve pain and induce feelings of pleasure or euphoria.'' That explains a lot. Knolly's aluminum fun-machine may not be the quickest bike in its class, either up or down the mountain, but it very well could be one of the most fun.
This is a bike that is going to make a lot of riders feel pretty clever about their line choices, even on trails that shouldn't inspire any out of the box thinking. Ultra-forgiving suspension (relative to how much travel the bike has) helps to erase mistakes that might otherwise erase what little traction is available, and the 27.5'' wheels let the Knolly fit into spots on the trail that a bigger wheeled bike, or most other bikes of any wheel size, could only dream of squeezing into. Riding the Endorphin turned into a game of real life Tetris once I got used to the bike's lively handling, only instead of buttons and a video screen, I was holding onto a set of grips and looking down the trail for more opportunities to do silly things. It's like Knolly visited my riding area, measured our trails, and made a bike that fits into every pocket and hole on the mountain. They must have done the same for every zone within three-hundred kilometers as well, because the Endorphin behaved in the same playful manner whether it was on smooth terrain or the steep, massive rock slabs and rooty trails of Squamish, B.C.
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| While high speed over rough ground isn't the Endorphin's forte, the bike can pick its way through slower and more technical lines with ease. |
The bike felt less at home as the speeds picked up, however, and fast, ledgy sections of trail tended to upset the Endorphin more than some other bikes of similar travel, like the 130mm Ibis Mojo 3 or 140mm Devinci Troy. I was reminded on a few occasions that no, sometimes you can't have your cake and eat it, too, as the price for impressive agility is less stability when things go from fun to hairball. So what about Knolly's claims that the Endorphin ''will dominate your local enduro race, and the 70-mile out-of-bounds epic you have planned the following weekend''? If you believe that, I have a minivan to sell you that's also a great track-day racer. The Endorphin is a hoot to ride, and a skilled rider is going to go quicker than someone with lesser abilities regardless of what bike they're on, but the 130mm Endorphin ain't no enduro race machine, even with its formidable suspension.
| Riding the Endorphin turned into a game of real life Tetris once I got used to the bike's lively handling, only instead of buttons and a video screen, I was holding onto a set of grips and looking down the trail for more opportunities to do silly things. |
You can't really go wrong by bolting on Fox's latest Float 34 Factory fork and a Cane Creek DBinline shock. Both ends of the bike provide more setup options than a night spent speed-dating, and they're a reminder of just how good we have it these days. The back of the bike, in particular, was impressive: the DBinline could trick some riders into thinking that there's more than 130mm to deal with things, such is the great balance between suppleness in the first third of the shock's stroke and how it deals with big impacts. This translates to a great handling bike that can really slice and dice its way through corners - so long as they're not rough or ledgey enough for a bike with more travel to pull away.
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| Having some of the best suspension available can come in handy. |
Technical Report
• Industry Nine PillarCarbon Wheelset - The bike's Industry Nine wheelset, with carbon fiber rims and large diameter aluminum spokes, is about as trick as you could hope for, and they perform as well as they look. I didn't hear a ping or pop out of them, and no amount of smashing into rocks could knock the 400-gram rims out of true. And that sound from the freehub! They're expensive and, truth be told, unnecessary compared to many of the great performing, reasonably priced aluminum wheelsets out there, but I have to admit that I also lay in bed at night thinking about them. Also, Industry Nine lists a base price of $2,750.00 USD if you wanted to buy the wheels on their own, whereas you'll pay an extra $1,713 USD if you add them to your Endorphin's build kit.
The Industry Nine PillarCarbon rims are light and proved to be reliable.
Would it be weird if I recorded the hub's buzzing while coasting and played it loudly while I drove around in my van?
• Traction > Rolling Speed - Selling a bike with a semi-slick rear tire is a bit like Chevy delivering their trucks with massive mudders. Sure they're going to look cool and work really well for about six percent of the driving you'll probably end up doing, but they don't much sense for the other times when you, you know, need traction on the road. I swapped out the fast rolling Maxxis tire for a Hans Dampf and, as you'd expect, immediately had more grip and control on both the climbs and descents. Sure, the bike rolled marginally slower on those rare (for the PNW) dry spring days, but the tradeoff was well worth it, especially for a bike that's such a capable climber.
• Sublime Suspension The Endorphin has been fitted with what is arguably the best suspension in the game: a Fox Float 34 Factory fork and a Cane Creek DBinline shock. The latter proved to be reliable, which hasn't always been the case in our experience, and it offered an incredibly composed ride that can be tuned to feel however you'd like it to via Cane Creek's immensely helpful online guide that leaves no doubts as to setup. And what can I say about the 34 that hasn't already been said? It's the most adjustable fork out there in its travel class and is almost too smooth and supple to believe. Knolly couldn't really go wrong with this combo.
Pinkbike's Take:
| The Endorphin is going to shine under a rider who values cleaning any and every climb that they're faced with, and someone who is especially concerned about having a good time, be it during an all-day epic or by trying cheeky lines that put more of an emphasis on fun than speed. It's not a machine made for you to try and drop your buddies on the burliest of descents, although a skilled rider will be able to do exactly that, but rather a bike designed for exactly how so many of us like to ride. - Mike Levy |
About the Reviewer
Stats: Age: 34 • Height: 5'10” • Inseam: 33" • Weight: 165lb • Industry affiliations / sponsors: None Mike Levy spent most of the 90s and early 2000s racing downhill bikes and building ill-considered jumps in the woods of British Columbia before realizing that bikes could also be pedaled for hours on end to get to some pretty cool places. These days he spends most of his time doing exactly that, preferring to ride test bikes way out in the local hills rather than any bike park. Over ten years as a professional mechanic before making the move to Pinkbike means that his enthusiasm for two wheels extends beyond simply riding on them, and his appreciation for all things technical is an attribute that meshes nicely with his role of Technical Editor at Pinkbike.
Stats: Age: 34 • Height: 5'10” • Inseam: 33" • Weight: 165lb • Industry affiliations / sponsors: None Mike Levy spent most of the 90s and early 2000s racing downhill bikes and building ill-considered jumps in the woods of British Columbia before realizing that bikes could also be pedaled for hours on end to get to some pretty cool places. These days he spends most of his time doing exactly that, preferring to ride test bikes way out in the local hills rather than any bike park. Over ten years as a professional mechanic before making the move to Pinkbike means that his enthusiasm for two wheels extends beyond simply riding on them, and his appreciation for all things technical is an attribute that meshes nicely with his role of Technical Editor at Pinkbike.
Author Info:
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Oxymoronic overachievement of the year.
You can get this well under 5k complete with a very decent part kit. As for the wheels, I'd rather have a good alu frame with carbon wheels than a cheap carbon frame with alu wheels ANY DAY OF THE WEEK. Carbon's main benefit is weight- so use it where it counts most (rotating weight!).
They also didn't simply say carbon is too expensive. They said it is expensive to do carbon right (true), and for the same or lower price, we can do aluminum frames really damned good (which they do). Better to have a properly engineered aluminum frame (with awesome standards compatibility) than a generic carbon clone like everything else. Get a Knolly.....or just order the 3 same item combo the non-thinkers choose from the mail order lunchboard.
Final price tag $3K.
This really is good material, please keep it coming!
Also, if you want to make Idiocracy references, you should learn how to use apostrophes properly. It's kind of like walking into a thinking match with your brain in a bucket.
Poor norcal77. You must have experienced such angst when you found norcal 1 through 76 were already taken.
Knolly fer life!
I dont think anyone will argue that Pivot makes nice bikes, but they certainly don't use their own suspension design now do they?
I've got nothing against Knolly, or their suspension designs, but to submit a $8400, 27.2lb 130mm trail bike for a review, and then tout "cost-savings" as the reason for its aluminum frame is simply absurd.
I've taught analytical reading in the Ivy League. Your self-congratulatory attack-ad gets a D. Do your market research before you open your mouth that wide to spew sorry ad hominem rant. Every well-engineered carbon-framed trail bike I've considered buying in recent years by Ibis, Intense or Santa Cruz meets or beats this Knolly on the combined price-to-weight front.
I can get a Santa Cruz 5010 w/ XO1 in their *top aerospace grade* CC carbon for $6600, and it weighs less than this $8400 Knolly. For $4700 I can get their basic C carbon frame w/ 1x11 and a Pike. If you don't like the new boost rear spacing, buy last year's model at a discount, it'll have a standard, threaded BB just like the new one.
There are lots of great bikes on the market, the point here is not that Knolly isn't among them, it's just they're talking out both sides of their face on both cost & weight when selling this particular trail bike.
PLUS Santa Cruz now has lifetime warranty and life time bearings.
Yes that right, life time bearings shipped to your door.
Buckley said this "A well engineered and manufactured alloy frame will far outperform a lesser carbon frame, hands down." *You* took that line and ran with it, asserting that the choice is to opt for either a "properly engineered aluminum frame" OR "a generic carbon clone."
Both of these claims assume that, dollar-for-dollar, to get a frame that performs like Buckley's aluminum, I have to settle for a "generic" or "lesser" carbon frame.
*Here’s the point*, this whole line of argument is a red herring: there are plenty of top-performing, top-brand carbon chassis that I can get for comparable money with the same or better build. For those who buy bikes, the value proposition is not about what it costs Buckley to build his stuff, but rather what other quality bikemakers can offer at comparable pricepoints. You insist on carbon wheels? Drop the carbon Enves on that $6600 Santa Cruz, and you now have an even-lower rotating-mass (375g Enve rim vs 400g I9) on a Carbon 5010 that weighs a full *half pound* less overall than the Knolly bike for $8600. What’s the point? That the aerospace CC-carbon 5010 frame is inherently superior or that half-lb is worth an extra $200? No, it’s exactly the same point I made about the $4700 version of the 5010 with a lower-modulus frame: comparing apples-to-apples on spec, Knolly is asking as much for their aluminum-framed bikes as makers of the best-engineered, premium, carbon-framed bikes on the market. Not the “lesser” carbon “clones” - the very best designs. If you want to pay a premium to support Buckley in doing what he wants in aluminum, knock yourself out: his aluminum may be a better value than his carbon, but his assertions about the quality & value of the carbon alternatives to his product are simply false.
By the way, I was being modest, I had a faculty appointment at Princeton. That's Prof. Dr. Donkey to you. You now have an F for attempting to browbeat a better-informed interlocutor with Knolly's stinky red herring, and for your kindergarten attempt to shout down confirmable factual evidence, while being able to muster none of your own.
I noticed Mark Matthews was running a DH fork on his: www.instagram.com/p/BCJjIliLv56
It’s not about demonizing one brand, merely about calling out their “all in” move to feed this inflationary dynamic with the press, even if it means the pitch for their “less is more” framebuilding philosophy goes down in a sea of cost-is-no-object parts.
The answer is neither to slam Knolly, nor to shoot the messenger that manages to put a satirical finger on the problematic. What might actually be interesting would be a discussion of how sites like PB could do tests & reviews that relate better to what the majority of us actually wind up buying.
A first suggestion: perhaps brands should be required to submit a bike in two build versions for comparative review: one that maximizes bang-for-the-buck with a MSRP limit of $5k, and one that focuses on performance without a price limit?
I don't know if a site like PB realistically has the budget to acquire & manage a component pool like that. They could perhaps get manufacturers to sponsor it, but I'm not sure if that is a better way to minimize bias on a review site than simply have bike companies supply bikes the way they sell them.
Maybe @mikelevy can chime in & keep the constructive vibe going.
You've internalized Santa Cruz's marketing schlock as much as Knolly fans have. Thef*ckouttahere with "Aerospace". What a useless buzzword.
As for value & carbon fiber tech, I've also spent well over a decade working in the outdoor sports industry, and have first hand experience w/ CF as an athlete & tech dating back to the early 80s & the widespread adoption of the material in tennis rackets, then bikes & skis. If you don't like aerospace, just insert high-modulus. The outdoor industry directly competes w/ aerospace & F1 for the highest grade carbon fiber materials. I could care less about airplanes, or buzzwords, but there is a direct link. Specialized hired a guy who designed CF armored helicopter seats to design & source their CF MTB rims.
Santa Cruz is merely invoked as *one* example. In my first post I directly refered to parallels between SC’s pricing & design and Intense & Ibis - all 3 are highly regarded: there are plenty of riders, journos & engineers vouching for their designs on record. I don’t just take their words at face value, I’ve used the stuff. Core-brand loyalists may beg to differ, but we now enjoy a market where most major MTB brands do a great job designing & manufacturing carbon: Trek has producing highest-quality carbon frames for over 20 years. I’ve owned state-of-the-art, top performing Giant CF bikes for well over a decade as well. The list goes on & on.
Go back, re-read what I’ve actually written, and if you’ve got a superior, fact-based counter argument where I got something wrong, I look forward to learning from it.
Otherwise, go find a mirror, and ask yourself why there are so many on these forums that would rather go on the attack & lash out at people they don’t even know, rather than doing the hard work listening, analyzing, and formulating a well-substantiated response.
I understand your position. Homeboy created a false dichotomy between good aluminum and bad carbon. I agree that you can get a well-made carbon bike for Knolly money. It’s your unfounded certainty about value that rubs me the wrong way. The only "cold hard facts" that you brought to the table have been weight and price. If those are your only metrics for value, then you are going to miss out on so, so much. Value can't be proven with stats alone -It's totally subjective. I can spout geometry, leverage ratios, and BB drop figures to you all day, but that doesn't mean it adds up to a bike that rides well. A bike is not the sum of its numbers. But if it were, price and weight would be pretty low on the list.
What Noel is trying to say is that frame material shouldn't be the only feature to base a purchase on. I think SC makes good frames, but I dislike the function of their VPP suspension. Even though the SC is cheaper and lighter, I'd still opt for the Knolly because of the way it rides. So would many others. They are not wrong in their decision.
Also, handling a carbon tennis racket in the eighties and ownership of a 1993 Giant Cadex does not make you a carbon expert. Nor does your vague employment in the outdoor sports industry. If you think Sauber, McLaren, and Mercedes "compete" with the bike industry in terms of carbon fiber technology, then you have no idea what you're talking about. F1 is light years ahead of bikes, regardless of who drops terms like "F1" into their marketing. Knolly included. We're all swimming in the same uninformed sea of opinions. You are no different, professor.
Then I chimed in, called them both pussies, and told them my tale of woe about how we have multiple wheel sizes to choose from, and some people make a different choice than me. They. Were. Horrified.
I think Westerners have labeled it that because we are so trained to think government = law. They have government, just no rule of law.
lol'ed at your comment nonetheless
My point is that the "feudalistic" characteristics of the country we quite temporary, and the result of a transition and the collapse of a central government. Hence I think "anarchy" or "lawlessness" are quite apt descriptions. Upvoted for the coherent discussion, though.
I haven't seen you guys mention that Somalia actually was on the upswing after the US intervention in the 90's, but the de-facto government that was then in place was destabilized by more US intervention. There are some really good podcasts about all this in the archives of the Scott Horton Show/Anti-war radio.
Anyways, back to wheel sizes. Clearly we need the government to get involved to set some standards and price controls. Pffft!
In the same way, I always like to tell those who I would consider "leftist statists", or "progressive fascists", but who like to think of themselves as "liberal", that my ideas might just be "too liberal" for them, and force them to consider the technical definition of the term (and hopefully the implications of using force to accomplish progressive ideas).
Good discussion though, maybe we need a forum topic!
I don't care about new standards and all, it's been 20 years I ride MTB and saw many "game changers" appear and disappear. Now I just want a bike that plain works, is fun to ride and that is reliable for years. Never been so satisfied with my 2 Knolly (I even tried the Chilcotin of my father), so yes, I'm gona spend those 9 grand.
The frame itself is $2195 w/ a DBInline, that's not unreasonable for an alloy frame. Most of the alloy frames I've looked at are aimed at the entry level (e.g. Specialized comp level bikes) market and aren't built for a high end build spec like this bike is (most have evo level shocks, for example). This isn't a knock against alloy bikes, just that it seems options for them with high end components are dissipating in favor of carbon.
Also, consider the build spec of the test model and the fact it had almost $2k of upcharges (Per the article above), in the wheelset and cranks, both of which are carbon. Add in the fact it has a X01 build spec, Guide RSC brakes, a Fox 34, and dropper, the price comes together a little more.
I've seen their frames up close and personal, they are nice looking and they look like you could run it over with a car, then ride it. That said, there are a lot of options at that $6k price point and it would be a tough call if I were in the market for a bike, almost all of the other options would be carbon and have a similar build spec.
You should learn to read before you type; I didn't say that I punched holes in my frame every day, but that I punched holes in my "every-day trail bike", or , in other words, "the bike that I ride daily"... And yes, my last carbon frame had several punches, cracks and splinters from the abusive, rocky trails that I ride.
@Matt76: You even put "Avid hater of carbon fibre!" on your profile ... So no real surprise on your opinion I guess?
But stating... "Give me a well designed aluminum bike like this over a carbon bike any day" ...
Well... the carbon version of your "well designed bike" would simply be a better version!
A lighter, stronger bike, that would climb easier and have less flex generally...
The science proves it!
youtu.be/xreZdUBqpJs
Look it's each to thier own in this world and buy what you can afford...
Any modern mountain bike is more than capable these days...
But your carbon argument is ridiculous in reality...
Just look at the worlds elite downhill riders and what they are riding!
I'm just thankful your not working as a Formula 1 car designer...
A carbon version would not be a "better version" unless it was made to be a better version. What you are really saying is, "If a carbon version were made, it could be made to ride better for a moderate increase in price."
Carbon is a wonderful material in that it creates tons of new degrees of freedom for design, and can be achieved with lower weight. This also means the possibility to make a lot of bone-headed decisions that compromise the dynamic performance but are basically forgiven as a result of low overall weight, and the ability to band-aid the handling with good suspension products and high end cockpit. A surprisingly small section of carbon fibre framed bikes are actually better as a result of having composite construction - the weight delta masks a lot of the deficiencies, and the inadvertent compliance for bigger riders achieved hitting weight targets actually makes them much better, but a lof of bike designs really don't to an intelligent job of leveraging those benefits.
If you see how much aluminum is present on top level UCI DH bikes, you'll see that Aluminum still has a place. There are still full 6061AL frames being raced on the downhill circuit, as well as EWS. Sure, there is a lot of carbon front triangle happening.
Basically, the fixed costs associated with getting carbon molds ready and sorting out layups is why it costs more, and making changes to those is also astronomically expensive. For a smaller manufacturer, they can create a bike that's more dialed and get it to their buyers in Aluminum for so much less cost that throwing some cockpit/drivetrain/suspension bling onto it still nets a lower final bike weight for the same cost (until we're entering the $6000 USD regime).
The ability of bigger brands with a lot of pull in bigger overseas carbon manufacturing to roll out tons of bikes is just an effect of them having enough market share to eat those fixed costs up front each time they need a design change, and having the resources to do a lot more validation testing on test mules before they have to finalize carbon setups (also, having access to pre-production OEM stuff helps a ton too).
Obviously the carbon version of @Matt76's "well designed bike" 'wouldn't be better', if it were a 'poorly made' carbon version...
I was talking about his "well designed bike" made of both materials in direct comparison to each other....
I expect his "well designed bike" means it's of high quality in either material...
And yes it would be more expensive... I never implied it wouldn't.
If it's a "well designed bike" as Matt76 had said... Then your comments on poor dynamic performance are moot?
I also never presumed carbon frame creation was cheap? Your not telling me something I'm not already familiar with regarding the processes involved and the expense... In fact, I've learned that on a personal level from my present and past bike choices...
And yes... there's plenty of aluminum bikes in the UCI DH, but...
Gwin's bike... carbon.
Loic's bike... carbon.
Stevie's bike... carbon.
Troy's bike... carbon.
Gee's bike... carbon
Rachel's bike... carbon...
You get were I'm going don't you?
It was about pointing out your inability to accept innovation and progress that I was eluding to!
As I said... "You even put "Avid hater of carbon fibre!" on your profile" ... So it'll be pointless to try and have an unbiased conversation about it with you obviously...
Yes, like bacon is a better alternative to Quorn...
All other things equal, I'll take the advantages of a carbon fiber bike.
As a tall guy, it's very rare for all things to be equal.
This is especially true with the damping characteristics when somebody my size is putting absurdly huge loads on a frame when using much of the travel, or how overall structural rigidity pans out when putting clyde-proof stuff onto a bike (or god forbid budget is actually a consideration).
And the linkage works great. Some people say it looks weird or flexy... Knollys are VERY stiff, and the suspension works amazingly. And I think the bike looks damn sexy.
And lastly. Aluminum isn't just entry level. There are tons of riders (including myself) that prefer alu over carbon. Plus knolly does make a carbon bike. This bike is great, so don't bash on it until you've ridden one.
As for it's capabilities. It can be ridden on DH tracks fast. But you will be shitting your pants, as I do when I race DH on the endo. I wouldn't say a downhill bike is light years faster, but it's a lot more forgiving than my endorphin. On my endorphin on the DH tracks I feel like I need to hop and skip through the rock gardens, but on my friends transition tr500 I could really plough through the gnar. That's not to say the Endorphin can't be ridden through fast gnarly sections though. Today I really tried to push the limits of the bike and never felt like it wasn't about can the bike ride it, it was can I ride it. Honestly I think it's more capable than the 130mm of travel suggests. But like I said, when you ride fast and aggressive on tracks you would normally find a DH bike on you find it's limits pretty quickly. Especially when jumping. As I said before, when the jumps start nearing 20 feet then it's time for the downhill bike. Really it's a capable bike that can be ridden through some burly stuff, but when you make a mistake in a high speed rock garden you might be more f*cked than you would be on a downhill bike.
In summary I'm getting pissed off at all these people complaining about price. The reason this bike is 8k is because of the i9 pillar wheels and the build kit. AGAIN you can pay half of that without even getting a deal as long as you're okay with an X1 drivetrain and the lower version Guide brakes.
Anyways, I love the bike, I think it's pretty capable, and you don't have to pay 8 thousand for it.
A side question. Steep techy climbing at times requires snappy out if the saddle acceleration. My experience is that Horst link designs typically lack enough anti-squat to do well in this area. Upping the LSC is an option to address this. Or, is one better off with a suspension design that has more inherent anti-squat?
Or just, you know, reasonably priced carbon wheelsets under a grand that'll be at least as good.
On topic though, I'd love to try a knolly, though a warden would probably make more sense.
New frame
New Derby rims/bhs hubs
Used Manitou mattoc 150
Xt brakes/cranks
Swapping over other parts to complete build. So far I've got 3400 in it. I'll be piecing together sram 1x11 components as funds allow but it'll be a great bike as is. Looking forward to riding this little beast.
Also who said anything about racing pro..I'm a mountain biker ..Plain and simple
For racing, I ride my 2015 Carbon Nomad, it pedal more efficiently for me and is a great handling bike. For a fun ride I would take my new delirium any day of the week over the Nomad. Both have similar builds but the knolly just seems to feel better in the gnar and off the jumps.
Not sure why people are freaking out about the price. That build is pretty baller, spec out any 2k priced frame and it would cost about the same. If it's too much than go shimano xt, stans flow, your choice of fork and other components to bring the cost into your price range.
Just wait until you have to overhaul the rear end. I think there are like 12 bearings in that thing.
15 dollars each plus at least 2.5hrs to complete the job @60hr. That's about $330 plus tax.
They would try to do the bearings, and 15mins later would have the bike in
at the local shop because they blew the bearing race out. Lets me realistic here.
hahahaha!! But yeah. I agree, just f*cking giver.
They usually last about a season, 2 max. I have 7 pairs of under wear. They last me all week.
They do make bikes for different purposes.
I have 3 that are built and ridden regularly.
Mark 6 Delirium w 5 seasons
2nd gen Endorphin with 2 seasons
2nd gen Podium with 3 seasons
Thanks for playing
The Scout is more of a plodder, it is also poppier and rails better.As much as i lover the Endo, it was the most high maintenance bike i've ever owned, i could not stop it creaking, i even paid a shop to sort it ,lasted a few rides.
Took it to Morzine, it didn't like it !
I agree with @pigman65 - my Warden requires constant attention to avoid creaking and bolts backing out. It's interesting that @mikelevy stated "I've spent a considerable amount of time on at least three different Knollys over the years and have had zero issues with hardware backing out . . ." It's almost like he's acknowledging a problem that according to him doesn't exist. Anyways, if you do get an Endo, just know that you'll need to spend 5 minutes a week checking bolts, which is no big deal.
As for myself, I did the exact opposite of You : I was on a Carbon Santa Cruz for a while which I got as payment for work I'd done for a customer, and I gave it to my brother. Seems to me that a Knolly is made for a certain type of rider, which, to me, seems to equate to someone who makes utmost use of incredible rear traction at any--angle, and, which is super stiff and very very comfortable to ride hours on end. Add to this the fact that the Knolly allows you to get away with all kinds of stupid mistakes or 'experiments' as you try to push your current degree of talent to the next level... Riding my Knollys has contributed to making me a better and more capable rider with the passage of each month. I can try stuff on my Knolly that I would--not dare attempt on any of my other bikes... Once in a while I try another bike, only to go back to my Knolly's.