Mail Order Madness - Are Wiggle Buying Chain Reaction Cycles?

 There goes customer service

 It probably is for the best. These are both shops that make lbs' go out of business. With less competition in the online world, the prices might become a bit less low and other bike shops might stand a bit more chance again. Note that shops like CRC often sell their stuff cheaper than an LBS would pay their distributor for that exact same part.

In the end I am pro online shops though, since my experience is that most bike shops simply fail to offer the knowledge and service they claim to have, what you apparently pay extra for. Also, if you're in that small percentage of people who know more about bikes than most bike shops, why would you pay them for something you know / can do just as well, or here in The Netherlands, many times better? I also really hate it when I do feel generous and go into the lbs to support them, to find out they never have the exact part I need in stock and they tell me it will either takes months before the next shipment from the distributor where tthey can include my order, or I will have to pay €20 extra worth of shipping costs AND pay full retail price AND wait one or two weeks for the package to arrive to their shop. While I can order the same part from the UK for cheaper, plus I save €16 on shipping costs (WTF?) plus I have it delivered to my house within 3 days. I'm sorry LBS' you need to step up your game because times are changing and you guys are the grumpy CD-stores who go bankrupt one by one complaining about the world, instead of stepping up your game and see this pressure a reason to get out of your comfort zone and create something unique and become better than you've ever been.

 The LBS needs to rethink what it does and how it does it. The old model of retailing will lead them to going out of business. People can read reviews of products online, including video footage, so the LBS has to become something different than a "wait for a guy to walk in" retailer. The shops that figure this out will still be strong.

 The trouble there @Mattin is that as a local bike shop. You can't stock every part everyone wants. One person wants this, the next wants something completely different.

However, when someone comes in and asks for something we can't get quickly we do recommend a few places to them. Sounds counter productive since someone is taking money away from us since we don't have it, but they come back to us. So we get future sales. A little loss for a customer who then spends more.

Although the difference CRC, Wiggle etc has made on sales of small products (lights etc) is massive. We are pretty lucky with bikes though, since we stock Trek, Whyte and Electra as our main brands you have to come instore to buy one. Something I respect those companies for. You still can't get a bike serviced through the internet though

 I challenge you. Kom eens langs????

 #LeaveCRCAlone

 @WECustomizeBikes : I know you personally and I know you don't belong in that majority of lbs' I'm talking about. You are providing that extra service that I was talking about when I said "be creative". You guys anodize parts, give clinics, have very good bike knowledge etc, etc.

I don't want to name bike shops I had bad experiences with, but I had salesman trying to sell me a semi-integrated headset because I was looking for an a-head style headset with a low stack, once ordered a 160mm disc adapter for the rear and they ordered me a 160mm disc adapter for the front and had no clue there was a difference between them when I told him it's the wrong one, even though the packaging said 160F/140R. And this isn't even 10% of my list, and this actually happened in a bike shop which claimed they are specialized in MTB and road bikes.
The problem I think is that these shops will hire anyone, also people who don't ride mtb / road bikes. Just random folks who learned from their heads that this Cube costs €999 and has an XT derailleur.

The small amount of bike shops that are actually really good, are the small ones from very passionate cyclists. Good examples are you WECB, Soulcycle, Meesterknecht and shops like that. These are the only kind of bike shops I still go to. The big known shops which have over 100 bikes in their store generally do lack knowledge and service.

 If online is killing a LBS it's because they have a bad business plan. Around here LBS's are thriving. They cater to most people. It's only the die hards that visit Pinkbike and forums that are obsessive and search out upgrades and the next best thing and try to get it at the lowest price. 90% of bike riders arn't like that.

 bingo. To be a successful bike shop your business needs to cater to enthusiasts and non-enthusiasts. All types of cycling and drop the pretentious bs. Also, If I owned one I would attempt to work off a smaller margin for upgrade parts because honestly they just don't sell at all in today's marketplace. You simply won't sell a given part for 30% more than it can be bought online to an enthusiast who knows this. This is going to sound harsh but I know good bike shops that do stock some parts I want, because they track parts sales and keep up on trends. I understand it's difficult and expensive to retail - but it can be done. Find revenue elsewhere, focus on retention and customer service. Reduce turn around for service and repair. Offer higher level service and repair like suspension tunes, ect. I can not feel sorry for a bike shop where you just sit behind the counter and expect people to throw money at you. I know this is not all bikes shops but it's a lot of them. Sorry for this brutal truth.

 90% of riders? You definitely haven't been to London But yeah, we're focusing more on servicing here due to the high count of commuters.

And @Mattin, spot on. Most of the stores I've had issues with have nearly always been the large bike chain stores. Evan's Cycles, Halfrauds etc....

 @DARKSTAR63 Dammit. I always hoped I would be treated like a pole dancer.

I need a change of career I guess.

 I think everyone's market is different of course. Like around here, you gotta do road. We have a lot of wealthy road cyclists, so you would be crazy not to be good with that crowd.

 hahaha @charlie079 I mean no disrespect to anyone who works or makes a living in bicycle retail. Plenty of shops out there killing it. But I call it as I see, and I see shops struggling and often have an idea as to why. It would be nice if people always supported local and had the money to do that, but the reality is you have to adapt.

 Haha, only messing around. Yeah, a lot of shops round here haven't adjusted to the current situation were in. So in turn, a lot have closed their doors. Sad to see but no one apart from themselves could of helped.

 If the only value an LBS provides is that of exclusion (i.e. You must come here to buy brands X, Y and Z) they won't do well. Those that offer more should survive but I think many of them will struggle in the coming years. A starting point would be to (figuratively) embrace the YT owners walking through the door wanting service.

 I've only ordered from wiggle twice an both times they got it wrong. Long time CRC customer and why not? When I can order stuff Thursday morning an it turns up at work 24hrs later.. For free postage..

I have an lbs but they're primarily XC, road an commuter. I've had brakes bled an a wheel trued by them. I felt no difference in the brake an the wheel was loose as hell after one ride. My nearest GOOD shop is an hours drive away
Petrol is very expensive!!!

I have even heard an admission from another lbs owner of ordering from CRC cos it's cheaper an faster than his supplier!!!

 Wiggle sells Kona, I wonder what that means for Kona. If CRC carries Kona after the merger, will we be able to order Kona direct from CRC? that would be great!

 the only benefit to them buying CRC is to close it down. they are in direct competition. so if its true you will still be ordering your kona from wiggle and CRC will be gone. it's a very expensive way for wiggle to reduce the competition.

 Or maybe for bridgeport capital to run both? Wiggle are better known in the road an triathlon scene. CRC the mtb scene

Fingers X'ed as I'm a sale rail shopper that lives on CRC's bargains.....
An wiggle sucks

 yeh, that would be ideal but I doubt it happening.

I also agree CRC is great
wiggle just isn't very user friendly (and its compulsory on here to hate anything roadie orientated)

 Only place that is any cheaper than CRC is the German Websites. Discountbikes.de etc. Stuff straight from the factories over there, so they get it dirt cheap. Only downside is the shipping time, normally takes a week.

@nojzilla As for stuff being ordered from CRC by shops.... You would be silly not to if this was your business. We get stuff from them all the time. The amount of times I've phoned suppliers asking them to match a company online. I do feel sorry for them though, having to deal with us

 @Downhillrider441 ... never mind customer service. There goes the prices!

 @charlie079 wow! That owner I was talking too said, he only does it when he can't get parts for a customers repairs in time!

 To be honest if I had a cycling company I would allow online bike shops to sell it. But I would warn them from the first moment that as soon as they start selling under the recommended retail price, I would permanently stop shipping new products to them. Only exception being on older stuff from previous years.

 If you haven't tried the Google.de thing yet then now is the time!

 I work at a corporately owned sports store and often the prices from CRC are better than what I would pay at cost from the store distributor. CRC has been a great alternative because we don't have a lbs where I live.

 @doek - wiggle could close CRC down, but there could be huge advantages to keeping both going. As someone said, make wiggle the road and tri specialist, CRC the MTB specialist. There's money to be saved in combined warehousing, distribution, website maintenance and staffing. This could work out well for both of them.

I'll miss CRC if they go though. Amazing selection, great prices and fast, cheap shipping to Canada, couldn't ask for more.

 The LBS, must build their business plan around bike maintenance....that is the one place that onlines cant reach....sales must be a secondary field to them or a complete online solution....

 As a long time bike shop employee and mechanic, I feel a like I can share my experience. I HATE the mantra that LBS are some endangered species that is to be deified and worshipped at all costs.

Too often the over-priced, low-quality work, that takes too long, and over priced parts just aren't worth the cost. Not to mention the opportunity cost of actually getting yourself to the shop and hoping to deal with a competent employee. Let's be honest, retail shops in just about all industries are nearly obsolete (see Amazon.com).

Internet business is faster, more convenient and cheaper than a brick and mortar shop almost every industry. And yes, I order from CRC because their parts are often cheaper than my local distributor and most times faster (and I'm on the west coast of the US!!). We don't go to a artisan shoe maker for our boots, or to a custom tailor for all our clothes. Retail is dead. You have to adapt to survive in any industry as they're constantly evolving.

LBS need to focus on the non-tangible goods that create a positive experience... atmosphere, camaraderie, knowledgable-passionate employees, quick turn around on service, guided shop rides, skills clinics, repair clinics, custom bike build consultations, bike fits.... the kinds of things you can't buy on the internet or take too much time/work for the average customer to research.

I also agree with a few others above, you have to appeal to the types of riders in your specific area; create a niche, but be flexible. We work on and sell all bikes at our shop. But we happen to be on a massive bike commuting corridor; so what do we stock and sell mostly? Racks, fenders, bags, tubes, tires, tune ups, shitty $500 commuter bikes. I went through five other shops before where I'm at for the same reason you all hate most LBS... slow service, clumsy employees, and mostly the prevailing idea that bike shops are some kind of charity case that deserves life support. And every I check out another shop, or give them a chance it reminds me why I hate most bike shops; I could have just done it faster and cheaper online.

No you're not a bad person for ordering online, you're smart. No your LBS doesn't deserve your charity, they have to earn it. Maybe I rambled a bit there...

 No rambling dude just 100% sense. Best thing I ever read about lbs, if only more of em saw it this way.

 +1 @dinero. I too worked in shops and was a wrench but it was just as online stuff was starting to really blow up. I will say though I struggle with this even this week as I consider purchasing a new handlebar. My shop will even do their best to match online prices. The fact is though, I don't need service or a recommendation on this particular item (that's what I have you good people for). It's also out of my way to drive to the store and then...I have to pay sales tax.

On the other hand, I have purchased 3 bikes from from local shops in the last 2 years. ALL of them have had warranty issues with 3rd party components where I was happy to have my shop on the phone with the rep. It was during those experiences that my shop earned my business.

 @doek - I highly doubt such an acquisition would solely be to close the competitor. I assume the UK has regulators over large corporate transactions and they would likely stipulate ongoing operations of both brands for a period of time. And if the capital investors thought they could service their competitors customers and win them over through one of the sites they would invest in the company not buy the competitor. You buy when you recognize the other competitor has something of value you cannot acquire on your own or replicate in a cost effective manner. They will surely harmonize back end operations, negotiate even better pricing (from parts to shipping) and I suspect it is safe to assume each brand will slowly differentiate toward different target markets. There are many parent companies that operate seemingly competitive offerings because it gives them broader exposure to the market and lessens the risk should one of those markets falter. Fox-Marz; Dorel-Pacific Cycle in the bike industry; IAC owns Match.com, PoF, OKCupid and Tinder; there's literally countless examples in nearly every industry. This is just a sign of the bicycle industry reaching the early stages of maturity where consolidation begins... and there is lots more to come.

 Anyone remember CompUSA and Circuit City? me either. Two tech companies who didnt feel they needed to change their business model to compete with the internet

 @robwhynot Seems like Wiggle have been branching out a lot into general outdoor gear and other sports, might make sense for them to gradually funnel more of the pure cycling business into CRC and more 'other stuff' into Wiggle.

 For me what you have said there is bang on!

 its funny that I'm buying mtb stuff online since 2010 and i've never heard of wiggle before today

 You're not missing much

 I manage an LBS and I agree with this

 They more renowned in the road cycling world.

 Likewise. Never heard of Wiggle. Maybe they've come up in searches, but CRC usually has the best price, and such a great (IMO) website. Very easy to drain my wallet there.

 They're more Road and Tri than CRC, Wiggle also doesn't really have any MTB brands of it's own. They have DHB kit but nothing as good as Nukeproof and Vitus. I hope this turns out to be untrue, my experiences with Wiggle have been fine, but my experience with CRC has been better, more than that those two companies under one roof would be catastrophic for competition.

 wiggle is CRC's big brother but as has been said it leans more towards road and Triathlon

 If wiggle buy crc they will sell everything crc had therefore making one kick arse website for gear

 CRC is already one kick arse website for gear having everything under one roof does not necessarily make it better. But, times changes, so.... get ready I guess!

 I think CRC is a little bit better than wiggle, but I like having both. They stock some different stuff which is useful.

 I agree....CRC seems superior.

 Maybe that's part of the reason they want buy them, so they use their scalable architecture and better site.

 If they're smart, they'll leave CRC's business model as is and just profit from their continued success. Or Bridgeport Capitol thinks they control a massive portion of the market and they will increase prices, cut costs in other areas (such as customer service as others suggested) increasing their profit margin which in turns makes it seem like a way better investment... it could go either way its just up to how much Bridgeport wants to appease the shareholders.

 @freeriderayward, totally agree, CRC's web is more user friendly, has far better range and more competitive on pricing. The only thing I can say for Wiggle is there order turn around is faster, as ive often ordered things from CRC & Wiggle on the same day for Wiggle to beat CRC on delivery by over a day most times, often with CRC still processing the order! Wiggle do sell some things CRC dont that I use, but its only a small number of goods!

 Not always higher. I purchased twice from wiggle last year as it was cheaper than CRC. Guess it depends what's on sale, when.

 I rarely buy from CRC anymore. There are not cheap and "sales" prizes are a joke!

 yup it depends on the item. the pike i bought from CRC was cheaper than wiggle, but xtr cranks and brake levers were much cheaper on wiggle with a better selection of sizes (for cranks).

 I've seen discounts up to 85% on CRC. How is that a joke? I'm always about 20-25% cheaper off when buying through CRC than if I would buy it at full price.

 Because a lot of CRC listings have falsely inflated MSRPs. One example in my mind: A 2013 NS Soda Air was 3700 CAD MSRP, but CRC listed it for ~4500, on sale for 3700 CAD. hmmm.....

 @baylenc1

I recently bought 3T Team stem and 3T team bars for my new 29'er and Wiggle were £12 cheaper on stem and £15 cheaper on the bars.

I shop with both Wiggle and CRC, choose the best price or stock availability, no real difference in shipping times, both very easy to use and cheaper than buying products through our trade suppliers in the bikeshop I work in.

Recently I bought some Shimano road wheels for my road bike, £100 cheaper from Wiggle than using our trade supplier (Madison a.k.a. Shimano UK)

internet has changed the game - our shop focuses on bike fitting, bike servicing, expert customer service, selling protected bike brands and soon offering training, yoga, pilates, wattbike studio, coffee shop, etc. adapt and survive!

 @ j-t-g: Exactly!

 Have you tried bike discount? Few items I recently compared were cheaper...

 I think wiggle might be better if you like swimming, triathlon and juggling.

 CRC is a smaller company and with wiggle catering more for roadies and their deep pockets it doesn't surprise me.

 wiggle owns the DHB clothing line, which i find pretty good (for road stuff). They also had they're own bike brand (verenti) so it probably helped with revenue. Also, they have a womens road team.

 They also recently bought Eastway bicycles so have their own bike brand

 pinkbike, ebay, facebook trade pages etc..

 Merlin and Ribble are pretty awesome too.

 Also Bike24.

 All non-Canadian based mail order companies are a moot point for anyone ordering from Canada. Right now we are lucky if we get seventy US cents for one Canadian Dollar. Add in the fact that revenue have cracked down on imports like these and the fact CRC insists on sending items DHL instead of parcelforce (the later often flies under the radar tax and duty wise where DHL bend you over and precharge the maximum duty and taxes plus a service charge for doing so.

Chainreaction was a dream when they shipped via mail and the Canadian dollar was at par or better than the Yankee greenback.

 I haven't looked in a while but the euro was still fairly weak and I've ordered from bike discount and paid minimal or no duties.

 @STRMTRPR ... amen

 planet X/on-one are pretty stellar for getting things cheap, but mostly only does the UK and US,

 @STRMTRPR - CRC exclusively shipping DHL is old news. Due to the incredible backlash, they relented (another sign of a great company) and gave us the choice of Royal Mail > Canada Post. Select Standard Postal - Free vs. Standard Tracked (DHeLL) and you get the good old Royal Mail/Canada Post service.

 For me,it's not a problem what happened with CRC.Not even now i don't understand their success. German sites are cheaper even if in some cases you have to pay the transport . So, www.bike-components.de , www.bike-discount.de , www.hibike.de , www.actionsports.de etc.,RULZZZ!

 24 bikes, probike and chain reaction but delivery takes a while to France

 @STRMTRPR yeah! TBS is our new good friend! If they don't have what you want, you can still see with Jensonusa what would be the final price with duty, at your door, and sometimes it is a good deal, sometimes not!

 Realistically I think things will stay the way they were, two different webshops, just the same owner. Kind of like how Fox bought Marzocchi, but Marzocchi stayed Marzocchi and didnt become Fox. It could have a bit effect on the proces though, but I even douwt that, as Wiggle is manly for roadies and CRC is mainly for MTB.

 Just look into your heart and see what's there

 @witica It doesn't know what love is...

 Put on Adeles album. If you just press the stop button, you're fine with it. If it makes you want to kill yourself you're not fine with it.

 Do you feel some type of way?

 Cut your Barnet into a combover and relax fella.it comes to us all.

 Same here, although I don't order from CRC much due to whole customs charge thing which I know they don't control but it makes it not to economically advantageous when buying from the US.

 Same for me. I actually buy from Art's or Worldwide Cyclery now...and they offer a 10% discount on every order, so even a better reason to keep money in our economy.

 I think prices are probably fine. It's not like they won't have competition still, they'll just have much larger market share and be able to leverage their buying power even more. So they can keep prices the same by selling more under one brand than two.

 P.s the next one who says "hey guys" to me,I swear I'm gonna smash em.

 this is why i love the Brits

 Hey guys!

 Hipsters can suck it! They're trying to ruin bikes, beer, beards, and tattoos for the cool people!

 Also, wiggle can suck it too if they kill crc.

 crc is 10 miles away from me. can drop into their shop if need something urgent. Been buying from alltricks and a few german places as its cheaper. Never buy from wiggle as its far too expensive..

 I bought also from Alltricks in France. Way cheaper than CRC/Wiggle, free shipping by UPS and way faster!

 Alltricks was my LBS for a few years, weirdly and they have a nice showroom full of decent, helpful, knowledgable guys in there too. I'm sure it's much the same with CRC and whatnot but having a (perceived) human side to things really made me consider them differently for some reason. Also, a set of next year's XT brakes for 140 odd euros doesn't hurt...

 And their sites shite

 Well said. CRC is great. It's still an LBS with two bricks and mortar shops, one in Belfast, and another in a small town about 15 miles out, creating plenty of bike industry jobs in Northern Ireland. I used to go to the original CRC in 1992 and still shop at their retail stores when i'm back home in Belfast. The founders did really well, congrats to them.

 In the MTB world yes, big difference in the Road discipline.

 It's nukeproof, so I guess nothing.

 my 2016 mega order was delayed 2 months about 8 hours after this story broke

 It's been cheaper to shop my lbs than going to CRC since the dollar tanked last year. Frankly I'm surprised any Canadians would be fretting about this takeover.

 Try pricing a m9000 drive train and tell me lbs is cheaper than crc!!!

 trooper - I usually check with my LBS for prices before ordering online, and except for the odd clearance priced part, they are way more expensive locally (even with the current exchange rate). Do you have examples? I do, one LBS quoted me $1600 for a Pike fork. Would you buy that locally?

 Kurwa

 Mac