Microshift's 11-Speed Electric Drivetrain - Taipei Show 2016
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A Sub-$600 Electric Drivetrain? Maybe.
It's been said that you shouldn't ever talk about sex, politics, or religion in polite company, and I feel like adding electric drivetrains to that list would make sense. It seems that batteries, wires, and the possibility of Skynet hacking into your bike are all things that mountain bikers are nervous about, and there are a few reasons why they should be, including how much current and future electric drivetrains cost. Shimano's Di2 XTR will run you about $2,800 USD for an entire two-by-eleven drivetrain, and there's a good chance that SRAM's electric group will be in the same ballpark when it's eventually released. Ouch. But there might be another option in the future.
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And then there's Microshift's 11-speed electric eXCD drivetrain that, while admittedly still deep in the prototype stage of its life, might retail for around the same price as a $425 USD Shimano XT group. Even if the eventual production eXCD drivetrain ends up retailing for $600, you'd still be able to buy more than four groups for the price of a single Di2 XTR kit.
Will it work as well as a Di2 XTR drivetrain if and when it actually is released? I highly doubt it, especially given that the live display eXCD group that I tinkered with presented some questionable performance characteristics, but I can't deny that a relatively inexpensive electric group is pretty damn interesting.
Will it work as well as a Di2 XTR drivetrain if and when it actually is released? I highly doubt it, especially given that the live display eXCD group that I tinkered with presented some questionable performance characteristics, but I can't deny that a relatively inexpensive electric group is pretty damn interesting.
eXCD Details:
• Wired, electric drivetrain
• 11-speed
• Front derailleur in development
• Lithium AA batteries in shifter
• Battery life display
• 6,000 shifts / 1,000+km battery life (claimed)
• 11 - 42 tooth cassette
• Clutch derailleur
• Weight: TBA
• MSRP: $TBA USD
• Wired, electric drivetrain
• 11-speed
• Front derailleur in development
• Lithium AA batteries in shifter
• Battery life display
• 6,000 shifts / 1,000+km battery life (claimed)
• 11 - 42 tooth cassette
• Clutch derailleur
• Weight: TBA
• MSRP: $TBA USD
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 The eXCD rear derailleur features a clutch, and its motor is located in the large protrusion that hangs off its side. |
eXCD Battery
Battery life and care are always pressing subjects in the comment section of any article about electric drivetrains, so let's get right to it. The eXCD rear derailleur is wired to the shifter, and it's all powered by two rechargeable AA lithium batteries that are located in the rather large shifter. That means there's no battery box or tube that needs to be attached to the outside or inside of the frame and that replacement batteries should be somewhat easy to find. Microshift is claiming that the batteries give the group around 6,000 shifts or around 1,000 kilometers of riding, which matches estimates from riders who've been using Di2 since its release. And, because the AA batteries are relatively small and inexpensive, it'd be easy to bring along a few spares when on a road trip if need be. If the batteries do expire during a ride, the derailleur will stay in whatever gear you were in at the time.
Microshift's battery life claims can't be verified until we get our own eXCD group, but the idea of locating the batteries in the shifter certainly does have some merits when it comes to packaging, even if it does result in a rather large shifter body.
eXCD Derailleur
The eXCD clutch derailleur is interesting. The motor protrudes quite a bit, although Microshift was quick to point out that it is a prototype that will evolve more before the group is ready for consumers, including an update to a slimmer profile that will increase clearance between it and large rocks that would like to tear it from your bike.
Also, the derailleur's parallelogram is not nearly as wide as what you can see on a traditional derailleur, with extremely short pivot pins and a narrow stance.
The eXCD clutch derailleur is interesting. The motor protrudes quite a bit, although Microshift was quick to point out that it is a prototype that will evolve more before the group is ready for consumers, including an update to a slimmer profile that will increase clearance between it and large rocks that would like to tear it from your bike.
Also, the derailleur's parallelogram is not nearly as wide as what you can see on a traditional derailleur, with extremely short pivot pins and a narrow stance.
The eXCD derailleur will likely end up looking a bit different by the time if reaches production.
eXCD Shifter
Two buttons on the shifter regulate the derailleur's action, with each button moving the derailleur in a different direction. There didn't seem to be a multi-shift function that would allow riders to move the chain over a number of cogs at one go. Two smaller buttons control setup and power-saving modes, and a small LED indicator right next to those tell the rider how much juice is left. The shifter body itself is quite large, as it would be given that it's also home to two AA batteries, but it appears as though it won't interfere with any brake levers or dropper post remotes.
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| The eXCD shifter is home to two lithium AA batteries that power the derailleur. |
Shifting eXCD
How does did it feel on the display stand? First, this eXCD drivetrain is still a long way from production, despite being fours years into development, so it wouldn't be fair to come to any real conclusions here. Still, the fact that it's on display and people can walk up and push its buttons means that Microshift is confident enough to let people play with it. So I had to do exactly that.
The shift action is quite slow, to be honest, slow enough that the delay would be pretty noticeable on the trail, and the shifter buttons are laid out differently than I'd prefer. Instead of being beside each other, I'd like to seem them oriented vertically so a rider wouldn't accidently push the wrong one by mistake in the heat of the moment. The system does work, though, and the chain moves smoothly across the gears on the unloaded display.
Microshift said that the slow shift action is down to both the motor used for the prototype and the battery power required to drive it, one or both of which could change before the group becomes available at some point in 2017.
Microshift said that the slow shift action is down to both the motor used for the prototype and the battery power required to drive it, one or both of which could change before the group becomes available at some point in 2017.
Shift action is much slower than a mechanical group.
Microshift clearly still has a lot of work to do, and it's doubtful that the eXCD group could ever come close to rivaling Di2 when it comes to straight-up performance, but there's something to be said for an electric group that costs under or around $600 USD. This is especially true if Microshift is able to sort out the slow shifting and show the group's reliability. If they can do both of those things, the next question is whether a consumer would want a proven mechanical drivetrain from Shimano or SRAM, or a possibly quirky electric group from Microshift. Which would you choose?
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Who wouldn't want this?
I know somone who had effigear and after many reliability problems has given up. So, in theory this is awesome, in practice they have to improve quality.
@Alias530 this is the article that I think the 34% comes from... they are talking about 34.6% worse... which works out to about a watt. I may not have been clear, but my math is just fine.
www.denniskirk.com/moose/replacement-element-for-391957-m92-21014.p391958.prd/391958.sku
These are designed to go under any grip on any bar, and are variable voltage. Simple circuit with voltage regulators and a battery pack later, and there we go.
If you include a chain in dirty and/or worn conditions the belt will generally pull away by a large margin. That gain is also true of the input power in the system, the higher power applied to a drivetrain the more the belt will outperform a chain on efficiency since a belt does not stretch and a chain does. Chain stretch including wear over time or from input load, both of which degrade performance.
Belts, like many other bike components, have strengths and weaknesses. Where the belt can be applied it generally excels; townie bikes, IGH equipped bikes, and e-Bikes (sorry for saying eBike on a MTB site).
I am an engineer for Gates Carbon Drive, so I am biased but I also don't make unsubstantiated claims. I also realize I'm reading the comments and responding to them. But who wants to see bad info spread around. We're stoked to see gearboxes in the market, it will make belts more viable for bikes with gears that (hopefully) shred.
At the end of the day we just love riding bikes, regardless of their drivetrain.
Gates makes the best belts on the planet.
Saying that a belt is 34% less efficient is like saying a truck gets 34% worse gas mileage than a car. These are HUGE differences (in this example, 30mpg vs 20mpg)
But if it's just the LOSS IN EFFICIENCY that is 34% worse, that's a different story. 3 watts lost becomes 4 watts lost, no big deal.
Like with so many things, it's not so much that you get what you pay for, it's that you pay for what you get.
-Imagine your Handlebar is clean from any cable.. and can we make the brake wireless too? TAILWHIP on MTB!!
I do expect to see some sort of electrical braking on ebikes, though: regenerative braking could increase their range hugely. Not that I'm really interested in ebikes, just pointing out the obvious benefit from an engineering standpoint.
On that subject. Why don't these electronic shifters have the same ergonomics as a standard trigger shifter? I love the levers on. My XT shifters. Just adapt the internals to be electric but the hand motions shouldn't be any different than what we are already doing. None of this button mashing crap. Its not a video game.
Will be keen to see how this system stacks up against Di2 when it gets released, hopefully it's a little tougher
edit: didn't read "6 months" for the battery. I suppose 6 months would be fine, but I just don't see why I need that. Give me a damn gearbox already. As soon as I put my college degree to use, I will have a gearbox bike. Or two. Or three.
I'll pass because of the drag and weight that will never be overcome (especially the drag). I think we'll see them becoming more commonplace in DH bikes as they become lighter though. It takes mass off of the unsprung rear wheel, centralizes mass and pedaling isn't as important as we once thought compared to good suspension action.
I put XTR di2 on my RMB Thunderbolt MSL for a total of $750 by shopping carefully and buying a few parts used. Really not that bad for a complete 2X system. I do worry about knocking the RD off but there are di2 derailleurs out there that look like hell but still function perfectly. @Blackers, I think you got really unlucky with the hit that took out your RD.
As for the internal gear boxes, is there already a standard? EFIgear and Pinion look similar to me, but I don't know if they fit the exact same slot. If there are standard dimensions, I don't see why frame manufacturers can just design their frames around that slot and buy one of the off the shelf products. The frame itself shouldn't be that much more expensive than a frame designed for a traditional derailleur. No doubt that if that is going to happen, Shimano and SRAM will jump on the bandwagon and release their own cartridge. They have many years experience with internal gear hubs (SRAM through SACHS) so it shouldn't be too hard. Heck, even Sun Race Sturmey-Archer could surprise us here and shake things up. I absolutely agree that excessive drag while coasting is unacceptable for mountainbiking, but nothing is stopping you from getting a freewheel at the rear hub.
I work with computers and I feel the same way, my bike can be without the electronic drive train besides these trigger shifters are soo cool anyways!
This constant fear of battery dying thing is also hilarious. Your phone, that every single one of us has, relies on a battery to do 100X more work and even bad ones still work for a full day. This would last much longer considering it only uses juice to move the derailleur then goes to sleep.
If you want to see the difference, try a DI2 system, it's freakin incredible. It shifts MUCH better and MUCH MUCH more reliably than a cable derailleur with the added convenience to auto adjust itself for chain wear and gear alignment without any user input. It's been around for years now and I didn't speak to anyone who tried it that didn't think it was brilliant.
Stop being scared of advancement and stop shitting on people who try to make things differently. They are the reason we are where we are now. If no one ever tried to makes things better, we'd still be driving Model T's and riding blimps and heating our homes with charcoal, dying of the common cold.
Get you head out of your asses.
Everyone's perception of value is different, too. So for some people, incremental improvements in shift quality would be far below other, more pressing investments they could make into their bikes, or their riding gear, or riding trips, or riding instruction, or other competing uses.
I'm stoked on DI2. Not because it applies to me right now (the cost benefit equation looks seriously marginal for my case), but because it can't help but push drivetrain development. Modern MTB drivetrains are remarkable in their efficiency, reliability, and resilience - and cost has come down, even as weight has dropped and range has increased. No front derailleur is huge in that regard, too. 'Good enough' (GX, X1, XT) today is way better than tip of the line a decade ago. Having more stuff happening electronically will benefit mechanical systems as well as the engineers learn more about how to make things work with smaller and smaller servos.
"you're self"? Do you realize that means "you are self"?
Fight
Item
PKMN
Run
Run... You got away!
Good thing too because it's the Internet and playing a game of wallet and Dick showing is pointless!
I voice an opinion and you responded like a bitch
If you are not that close to production, then you fall into the vapor-ware bucket...ala Speedplay Syzr. Those pedals were promised so long ago that when they finally did release, no one gave a sh!t.
So if it does come out completely different, and they are a long way from production, showing it now is pointless.
Also, yes, comparing the prototype showing abilities of sram/shimano to a company like microshift is a totally fair comparison. They obviously have the same production and marketing budgets clearly.
Buzz means excitment or anticipation...neither apply here. The forums will not be filled with posts about it...no one saw this and though they need to get this when it's released (and yes, I get it will almost certainly look different when it does; irrelevant).
I've put more thought into responding to comments than the actual article. Maybe they will come through with a low-cost electric shifting system to rival Sram and Shimano in 2017. But based on this, I am willing to wager you.
Again, read the definition of prototype. It isn't meant to be perfect. It isn't meant to be ready for sale. It is a proof of concept effectively. And yes, I am more excited about a much more affordable option in electric gearing than what shimano charge and what sram will charge too. As always, more choice is a better thing for consumers. Especially when that choice covers much more price points.
Why do you keep on saying they have to make a unit to 'rival' sram and shimano? They are planning to sell for 1/3 of their price. So if you think it then has to be a genuine rival to their performance then you again are wrong. You are trying to compare the two biggest companies in gearing who have all the market to themselves, to a small company with no market share trying to bring a cheaper solution to people who can't afford the pricier gear. But no, a slight delay in a prototypes shifting means it is totally pointless doesn't it . . .
And I agree, choice/competition/options within the marker place is good thing.
However, when you say a 1/3 of the price, are you comparing it to XTR Di2, or the eventual XT Di2, which I would speculate could happen by the time Microshift release this.
Lets set the bar at current XT performance, that can be had from Chainreaction for half of it's price. Does this still have you excited?
My 11 speed Sram stuff has not missed a gear once or required any real maintenance in the last 6 months and I just feel that they are trying to find a solution to a problem that really doesn't exist??! Electric dropper maybe but gears just seem a bit unnecessary in my eyes.
Being more serious for a moment: for me mountain biking was always about simplicity of used solutions. Changing gears with cable has been working fine for very long time. It's easy, cheap and you can repair it in minutes. Why would you want to switch to unproven and still very expensive electric version? At same point I'm sure that I'll have occasion to test that solution but I'm still not convinced that this is essential. If a person can't set up drivetrain with cable operated derailleur one won't do it properly with electric one too
Are we, as a mountain biking community, have reached a point when "clean look" is more important than robust durability?
"Why would you want to switch to unproven and still very expensive electric version?" I wouldn't. I would however switch to it when it's been on the market for a while and is way cheaper, which can't happen without it actually getting to the market first.
"...I'm still not convinced that this is essential" It's not. Just like any kind of shifting in general, or a suspension fork.
For me the next step could be graphene based paintings, our bike could feed the system with the energy required. For wireless we only need time...
Hell the amount of stuff I take on rides now is ridiculous anyway. No more gritty cables, great for clutch derailleurs I'd imagine. My Zee is a beast to shift compared to non clutch 10speed stuff I have on other bikes.
Friend - "No can do, I forgot to charge my drive-train battery after our last ride."
Me - :Spits in face and deletes telephone number:
I'm sure a proper gearbox could open up some interesting options for bike design. But it also introduces a bunch of new constraints - and does so in a central part of the bike, right where suspension components are fighting for space. Sure, not having a chain ring opens up some stuff for bike design in terms of clearance - but we're already pretty constrained as to clearance by pedal strikes, and for most riders chainrings hanging up (especially with the smaller rings used in 1x drivetrains) is not a big deal. Sure, having the weight of the drivetrain around the middle of the bike rather than a big derailleur and cassette hanging out at the back would make for better weight distribution and might benefit suspension performance - but then you also add a bit of weight in total. And then there's the efficiency thing (more friction loss than a well-maintained traditional drivetrain).
www.sram.com/stories/introducing-sram-red-etap
AUTOMATIX ^^