Experienced trail builders who work in secret can attest that there are three generations of users, each less respectful of the original builder’s intentions of how it should be used, and each less sensitive to the concept of secrecy which, in most cases, is essential to its continued existence. The first generation of users are directly related to the project. Perhaps they are diggers who lent a hand, or best friends of the builders, sworn to secrecy. First-gen users “get it.” They park away from the trail, stay quiet, sometimes carrying their bikes to the trailhead to mask the entrance point, and when they ride, they respect the line that the builders created. Once shared, however, there is no such thing as a secret.
When the original ten men and two women break their oaths and invite three of their most trusted friends to experience the “secret” trail, they create generation two. The second wave is schooled by gen-one about the tenuous relationship between local residents and land owners, so they respond with a greater degree of respect than they would give to a trail that “everyone” rides. They too, park off site and keep a low profile, but they arrive in groups and have beaten in a trail so they can ride to the new line. Gen two riders probably understand how much work it takes to make a trail and a few of them may have actually worked on one, but for the most part, they are accomplished shredders who are assumed to be trustworthy because they are part of the local scene, and therefore, deemed capable of not screwing things up. Generation-two keep no secrets, but they show respect.
Generation three are users, plain and simple. When the final wave of riders move in, the “secret” trail is referred to by name only and has been a popular post on Pinkbike, Facebook and Strava. Most gen-three riders have grown up in a world of readily accessible riding opportunities and have never experienced a land-access conflict. Those who have, probably cursed the inconvenience that one of their favorite trails was fenced off and simply drove to another location. Gen-three users park at the trailheads, shuttle regularly, arrive in groups, and treat the trail as if it were a public amenity. User-built ride-arounds ensure that mountain bikers of almost any skill level can enjoy it, and if the trail becomes popular enough, it begins to appear in publications and industry photo shoots. At this stage, there is an assumption among gen-three users that the trail has been around “forever” and probably always will be.
This opinion piece, however, is not about trail building. It is about electric mountain bikes and why there is a perception by powerful interests within the industry that they are good for the sport. If one considers mountain biking as a whole, and applies the trail user analogy, it can be argued that we are three generations in. The building period when early mountain bikers had to band together and fight for access, when mountain bikes were largely excluded from existing trails and were threatened to be banned from the back country altogether, has been largely forgotten.
Mountain bike access to public lands is considered a given in most of the world. Trail conflicts are local skirmishes that are most-often won by pro cycling lobbies who document “the larger landscape” - a string of success stories that stretch to the sport’s very origin - as proof that mountain bikers can coexist with other, sometimes conflicting, user groups. The common thread of respect, shared by gen-one and gen-two mountain bikers - that we once toiled to build a positive perception of our sport in a hostile social environment and that care should be taken to preserve the fruits of that labor - has long been severed. Our sport and the industry that supports it is all about generation three: a bold sense of entitlement, one which assumes that the natural world is a mountain bike playground.
Electric mountain bikes would have never flown when the crux of the land-access argument hinged upon the notion that we were human-powered users with the same rights to the back country as those who practiced other self-powered tech sports like skiers and kayakers. It would have been, “BOOM! End of discussion.” The only kind explanation that I can offer of why significant players in the mountain bike industry are touting electric mountain bikes as the next big thing, is that the decision makers responsible were either born yesterday, or were latecomers to mountain biking and don’t have a clue. I would hate to discover that marketing and management people, some of whom I have met and think highly of, have done extensive research and, in spite of the potential setbacks to trail access, have chosen electric mountain bikes as an opportunity to cash in on the sport. Yet, unfortunately, this seems to have been the case.
“So,” one may defend: “What trail access issues are you referring to? From what I can tell, the sport is growing in every country where it is popular, and new trails are being built every day. Electric bikes are simply another way to bring more non-cyclists into our sport. ”
Three triggers indicate that once bike-friendly land managers are under mounting pressure from internal sources, and externally from anti-bike groups, to curtail mountain bike trail access. The first is the rapidly growing unauthorized user-built trail movement, which was once largely relegated to remote areas, but now is rampant in more sensitive landscapes near urban centers. The second is user displacement from traditional, multi-use trail networks, primarily fueled by Strava warfare, where mountain bikers, intent upon busting out PRs and KOMs are intimidating non-cyclists from using the parks. The third is the fact that most ski areas have converted to bike parks in the summer months. Citing that because mountain bikers now have exclusive access to resources where they can ride at any speed and difficulty, land managers of nearby trail systems can now make a viable argument to ban bikes where their speed and operation is deemed incompatible with other users.
None of this has happened – yet – but any astute rider should be able to see the writing on the wall. The only reason that public and private land managers have not come down hard on mountain bikers already is that there are men and women in positions of power who were on that ground floor when mountain bikers grouped together to work alongside them – and who recall when organizations like IMBA went to bat for any administrator who could see things our way. These are the officials who vote pro-mountain bike behind closed doors. Under such rising pressure, however, our allies in high places are not going to find it easy to argue in favor of e-bikes on trails.
Behind mountaintop mining and overgrazing of livestock, motorized OHV sports are the most environmentally destructive elements that park land managers deal with. While the present argument for e-bikes is that they are “motor assisted” and thus not really an OHV, they are unregulated once they leave public roads. History shows that in every case, unregulated motorized vehicles quickly grow faster, more powerful and more capable. In their present form, personal experience shows that a Bosch-powered dual-suspension e-bike can shred on any mountain bike rider, anywhere on the mountain – and this is just the starting point for the genre. Straight-up, throttle-controlled electric-powered bikes are now readily available with six times the power of the best e-bikes. Presently, motorized bikes of any sort are illegal in the USA on trails designated for mountain bikes, hiking and equestrian use, and there are conflicting reports of whether they are legal off-road in Canada. Legal or not, all of them are now called “Electric Mountain Bikes” – and that is the poison dart which we, as a sport, will not be able to dodge.
Viewed from those outside the sport, a mountain bike is a mountain bike. Categories like downhill, cross-country, freestyle and enduro are not perceived by those who are either disinterested or opposed to their existence. I know this, because I have participated at public hearings and town hall meetings, more times than I would choose to recall, where the future of mountain bike access was being weighed by non-cyclists. We are all mountain bikers to them and we ride mountain bikes. When the day comes to ban electric mountain bikes as the latest upheaval to threaten the once-peaceful experience of enjoying a backcountry trail, we all will be lumped in with them. In the minds of anti-bike people, if one mountain biker can have a motor, it won’t be long before they all do. Logic and history supports them. Could you blame the park service for voting against mountain bike access in such a case? Help them help us, by removing any form of the word, “electric” from the term, “mountain bike.”
The moment will soon arrive when key land managers meet to determine if e-bikes should be banned from off-road use and from public trails. Sadly, some major bike companies will be there in-force, arguing in their favor – and their arguments will hinge upon the perception that they are electrically assisted mountain bikes, not motorized OHVs. I sincerely hope that there are enough riders in this, the third generation of mountain bike trail users, who understand and respect the efforts of those who helped found this sport and who have the courage to shout down electric mountain bike makers. The way I see it, mountain bikes are a form of human-powered locomotion with which to experience the wonders and the challenges of the natural world. Engines and motors have no place in that equation. Don't screw it up.
E bikes theyre a whole other story and dont even get me started, just keep them off the mountain! (althohgh they would be great as townies)
Edit: I just realized my whole post just basically said what you just said
I know of three people who ride in there, myself included. The only reason I can come up with that it's still open is because nobody else rides it and everybody who rides it maintains it, and nobody rides moto on it. Respect is the key word- we respect him, he respects us, and all four of us are happy. Also, none of the four of us are dumb enough to say exactly where it is.
Local builders aren't all like the pros who are given money to build and ride. I was the youngun in the group when I'd go and try to help them clean up after storms and riding. They're way more likely to be dads with jobs and families and not a whole lot of time to go out and ride the trails, and frequently they don't ride them to build new features, they build to keep things ridable and fun, but most importantly they build out of respect for the land and the land owners, regardless of whether they own the land or not.
Get it? Get it?
Moto guys do far more damage than downhill bikes for fairly simple reasons such as the increased weight of the bike, and the ability to crank down hard on the throttle in places unsuitable to pedal through hard.
As for the disrespectful riders, I saw a bunch of guys park their BMW at the start of what was once my favourite trail, I said "once" because it's now destroyed to the point where it's not worth riding to anymore. If you like a trail don't be an idiot when you ride it.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slickrock_Trail
I also remember riding the legendary Wayne National Forest ORV Park in Ohio with hundreds of miles of trail on MTB. It was and still is amazing. Moto/MTB/Hikers/horsers we all got along. (well, I don't really like horse poop myself.)
However, "Secret" and illegally built trails on public lands are always going to be a bigger threat to Mountain Biking than anything else. It's illegal, it's selfish, it pisses off land managers to-no-end and even if it's well built(most are not), it's unfortunately wrong. This dude abides.. most of the time.
E-bikes will ruin the party.
Also comparing them to moto-x bikes is ridiculous even at full assist they put out around 0.5 of a horse power, you'd be lucky to get them t brake traction let alone tear up the ground.
One woman showed up on an e-bike and was ridiculed the whole way past. They will never be popular with riders, who would want to be seen on one?
Am I right in thinking that I can now buy a dh bike which feels like a normal dh bike on the downs yet will winch me up to the top of the hill without having to push ? FANTASTIC ! Where do I buy such a machine ? Ok i can see some idiots using it in inappropriate places but if only use it at safely regulated trail centres where is the harm ? (Neg. Prop away)...
"Ok i can see some idiots using it in inappropriate places but if only use it at safely regulated trail centres where is the harm"
Safely regulated by who? would be my response... If you leave it to those in control, those in marketing departments and those in a position to easily regulate this aspect of the sport then you're going to get all of the problems that the original article describes. His call is one to people like you and me who build trails to stick to our roots and not let e-bikes penetrate into the sport that will utimately suffer because 'some idiots' will no doubt snowball into 'loads and loads of idiots causing problems for the rest of us'
the whole article just appears to be about pandering to the "holier than thou" trail hipsters that are so vocal about only riding on their bamboo frames enviro-bike that was built by a non profit gang of tibetan orphans.
On the one hand I can completely see the author's point. You can just hear Local Authority members in a few years saying things like "ooh, all those mountain bikes have become dangerous - they all have electric motors in these days", which could potentially damage the image of the sport.
On the other hand, aren't e-assist mtb's bikes just a natural evolution of the sport/industry? Bearing in mind that riders still have a choice, I think most will still choose to keep it natural (and look down on e-bikers as some lower form of species no doubt).
Like it or not, I think for pure privateer downhilling though there is a market. If there is a market then regulation will naturally follow.
also i'm not sure about the rest of the uk but around south wales most trails and even trail centers are just the paths where moto-x/enduro bikes used to ride, the MTB riders have simply usurped them.
That said it would appear that it could cause very serious problems in the U.S. with trail access. ( unless they are all just being whiny Luddites )
Certainly open throttle bikes, imho, should be banned and are illegal on UK roads though the fuzz haven't yet started clamping down on them. Most mtb riders aren't going to go for an e bike, heavier, less flexible etc but for those of us of the elderly persuasion for example or perhaps less fit older newbies they do provide access and starting point to a sport and leisure pursuit we all enjoy. In my case it just makes my legs 30 years younger and allows me to join in with my kids. So less of the holier than though attitude, an understanding that pedal assist is a totally different beast to an open throttle bike and riders of all things two wheels can be responsible and irresponsible just like any other humans!
Person will reply: But this is a mountain bike.
My reply: No it's a MoPed, aka scooter. And it does not belong on mountain bike trails. If you would like to try mountain biking, I would love to show you around the trails and go for a ride sometime once you get a mountain bike. It will take some effort, and will be harder than anything you've ever tried before, but it will be worth it, I promise! The scooter will still be nice for getting groceries or riding around town, if you don't mind being seen on a scooter I guess :-/
When a relationship has been established to allow a particular activity to occur in said countryside, there are expectations that are Expected to be upheld.
Enter the electric moped: If these electric motor vehicles are placed into the same category as a mountain bike, then you may be looking at a breach of those expectations. And the whole lot will get banned. No more countryside to enjoy. They will just throw all yer asses out.
So yes, I think it is our place to differentiate ourselves from an electric motor vehicle with pedal assist. And these should not be allowed to enter non-motorized multi use trails in designated non-motorized countryside.
I can think of many places i could take an e bike with little resistance and little impact, i live right next to a national park.
I got the impression that the U.S. was vast and you had freedom to explore it as you see fit. Im guessing that isnt quite the case?
The more private land around you the more sensitive land use becomes. Public land and state forests land usage varies depending on the governing bodies and the relationships between them and the various communities out there. Lots of limitations. When we have an area where riding is permitted, they are coveted gems not to be taken for granted. A lot of areas allow mountain bikes access due to good advocacy, and even a willingness to look the other way in some cases where MTBers do more good than bad even if it's not officially supposed to be allowed (like trail maintenance which saves the town $). Too much new trail building, or motorized usage forces attention and things can get shut down practically overnight with rangers handing out fines to mtb'ers and motorized users alike. Sucks but it's reality.
over here in wales we pretty much ride where ever we want on whatever we want with very little hassle from any one, the occasional "get orf muy laarrnd" from a stroppy farmer is about as far as it goes.
That said, why doesn't RC offer the solution that these new e-contraptions should only be allowed where gas-powered motorcycles already ride? I can see the merit in the range-extending capacity of the EGO-kit equipped FS bike in the backcountry, but NOT at the local (Seattle-area) lap like Tiger Mountain, Tokul Creek or dog-help-you Duthie Hill Mountain Bike Park.
Bicycle + Motor = Motorcycle
No motorcycles on the trails.
End of discussion!
You can dress it up like a mountain bike but the reality is, it's not a mountain bike. Why is this even an issue worth debating???
Commuters aside, I see a lot of the push for e-bikes (again particularly in Europe) because trails are quite steeper generally speaking that ones in the US. People who I have seen on an e-bike are on one simply because this is the (seemingly) only way they can get up the trails to enjoy them.
This would allow them to exist and be used by people that perhaps really need such a device for transportation and recreation, but would not allow them to coexist on non motorized multi use trails. They should follow the same rules and regulations as a motorcycle... Because they are motorcycles. As well, there are on road restrictions for scooters due to speed limitations. Should these be the same?
Electric Motorcycle with pedal assist. It's a damn scooter and should be treated as such.
The bike companies pushing this shit should hang there heads in f*cking shame.
bingo.you win.
i know a few, and they rip..............one arm, no hands/no feet(artificial limbs), blind,crippled,stroke victims, etc etc......
so, that aside.
the second part of your comment does hold some merit........
letting marcel hug race against kenenisa bekele would have been a more accurate comparison though.
Off course the US has steep trails. The Point is The Alps are a younger geological formation, less eroded then the most places in the Continental US. Therefor It can be said that the Alpine-Terrain is generally steeper.
Pushing or hiking a bike is nice if the climb is a couple of hundred feet, If you are looking at a 10mile plus with constantly very steep forest road you will have to look at it differently. You can change your gearing or maybe use the help of an electric motor if you feel like. If hiking or pushing your bike is your only answer you will be hiking multiple hours up for 15minutes of downhill... You might become a seasoned Mountaineer that way but definitely not a better mountainbiker
The other thing is shuttling is not really an option either in most places at least not if you don't want to have serious, very costly problems with the police as everything is privately owned land in Central Europe. On an e-Bike you don't have a registration and you can kind of sneak away...
FYI just opposite to ka-brap I am from Austria but live in the US. Just like him I know both. You should try riding in the Alps some day, its definitely worth the trip and a very very very different experience.
It you want to pedal... norther Italy, the Dolomites and the Lago di Garda area are pretty sweet but no (less) lift access in general.
You could also go Austria and see yourself how "boring" the WC track in Leogang really is (sarcasm!!!) and go to Schladming and Saalbach-Hinterglem the following days. Good thing is all thees places are so close to each other on a SoCal scale it all could be considered local. Of course there is great steep places everywhere in between but you would have to have a local guide to find good riding. Mots of it is illegal in some kind of way as a lot of land is privately owned.
I MTB 4-5x a week and it's my first love but I've got news for all you Johnny come latelys. Most trails were developed by hikers, equestirans, and/or motos. It comes down to respect for other use groups. To categorically throw a blanket over one particular group is just unfair. There's plenty of rogue uncourteous MTBers out there giving us a bad name as well. How many videos here on PB glorify all the damn MTB skidding that erodes trails?
To paint motos with a broad brush is similarly just wrong. Yes I can rip a nice trench with my KTM but a responsible OHV user does not. To say OHVers don't maintain trails is equally nonfactual. Have a look at some of the trails in the Sierra Nevada of CA. I can name 3 off hand that were sweet MTB trails until they were outlawed to OHVs in the late 90s and now they're completely impassable. OHVs were the ones maintaining them...they have to as HAB is simply not an option over large deadfall.
Multi use works in places like Sun Valley ID and Crestted Butte where you'll see all of the above living in perfect harmony. Maybe it's cultural, maybe it's less dense usage.
I never see myself on an E bike as I want the silence and effort when I MTB. I moto as often as possible for the thrill. And I hike when I want something different All that said if you want to E bike more power to you. Just because your form of recreation doesn't match mine so what? I'll mind my business, you mind yours, we'll say hi on the trail and be on our merry way.
Who the hell cares if someone chooses and electric motor to get up the hill a little easier?
I do trail work every month. I lead trail work THIS month. I would be a gen 3 user of any of these trails, they're all publicly recognized trails, some have existed for decades.
I kinda resent being labeled as having no respect for trails, when I spend a significant amount of my time volunteering to keep a positive relationship with land managers, & to keep trails safe & sustainable.
It is incredibly frustrating to have to abandon an area that you spend a lot of time and effort building because people find it and destroy it by littering or building something stupid in the middle of the trail. Not much I can do about it if its in a local forest though, they have the same right to be there as I do. Its a problem that a lot of people have to live with if they want something local in their area unfortunately
That said, since I saw e bikes appear, I've made two predictions:
1: as RC points out, there will be access issues, and we will all get painted with the ebike brush.
2: everybody is going to hate on them right until somebody does something on one you can't do on a normal bike, at which point, a lot of people are going to want them.
In the beginning of mtb in the uk ramblers point blank didnt want to share the trails with these "new contraptions". We got a lot of that back then. Its taken over twenty years for walkers to accept us. I just sounds odd to me to here us bikers, a group until not so long ago marginalised hating on another sport without fully understanding its impact
You know what they'll hate more, though? ebikes.
You still have to peddle them, you can't just pull a throttle and away you go! using a 5ltr pick up truck or a ski lift to get to the top is better than someone pedaling an assisted Bike to the top?? When my knees finally give in to the arthritis I'm suffering with will I be allowed to carry on with the sport I love or ridiculed??
We are living in an age of exponential technological expansion, and we have to learn to embrace innovation and find it's proper place in our MTB culture.
All of you guys who are so quick to beat down the idea of Ebikes should first look at the potential benefits and weigh them accordingly.
Make e-bikes for transportation, not recreation.
Moto-MTB's are Motos. end of story.
In California, we're finally getting to a place where land managers are really sitting down with all user groups including mtb riders and there is a possibility for proper legal trail networks. Motos pretending to be mt.'s could really throw a wrench in that.
RC, you have been the one contributor to PB who tends to write from a position of mediator; someone who has both seen and distilled the thoughts of those on the production side of the equation and equally, the consumer audience. There is often in your work an underlying feeling that you are trying, successfully I think personally, to engage the consumer in thinking slightly more about their choices by giving us insights into some areas of bike riding that we had either not known or thought about.
And that is where this one line jumps out of the page and runs screaming out towards us where we may not be the intended target, and it is this one:
"There is a perception by powerful interests within the industry....
So thank you RC, thank you. I get a funny feeling here that you are not writing this for us this time; I get the feeling you are genuinely worried enough to nibble the hand that feeds, the hand that in so many cases has it's existence denied. I too genuinely hope people on all sides of the equation understand the MTB world is, to use your analogy, in the third generation stage which requires some to stand up and highlight the future that awaits us unless we all wise up. Excellent piece.
geeksyndicate.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/kevinhart.jpg
A full hurrah for commuting/urban e bikes as another way of getting people to commute distances they may not otherwise be able to. (I would rather the laziest sod riding a e-assist bicycle than driving a car.). But as far as mountain bikes are concerned they have no place - doing xc and not that fit? You're riding along tow-paths and the pleasure comes from the scenery/being off the road. Doing 'proper' xc - you're fitness will improve with your skills and you'll be loving it so why press a button to go faster and risk a crash? Want the thrill minus the climbs - you're an uplift sorta person, enjoy! (n.b. not that spending a day uplifting is easy, far from it!)
But riding an 'enduro' e-bike? G.T.F.O. This sport SPORT is not for you, *if it were you would enjoy starting any of the above* (the crucial bit) =]
Land access rights - bloody hell, in the Peak district (UK) and northern wales it's still causing a hell of a lot of problems, and there are still such groups fighting for access and coming up against nonsensical, untrue arguments from 'other' parties. Part of which is caused by abuse from the 'ahem' 3rd generation.
Lastly - the ebike argument runs parallel to the smooth trail argument imho. E - assisted bikes are great for helping some people cycling, and smooth trails are great for getting some people into mountain biking. However they should not be the driving force: they have no place on mtb trails and you cannot eschew the core of mountain biking (all terrain riding - rocks, roots, bogs, gravel etc.) in favour of creating more money by making it 'easy' and not catering to the already converted mtb masses (who lets face it, are far more likely to spend their money going to new trails etc.)
And something else: how many of you ignorant negative internet junkies have ever seen an e-bike on a mtb trail and had a negative experience related to this encounter?
Please reserve judgement until you are actually informed about the subject!! E-bikers do not ride trails they ride fire roads, in the alps. Why should the industry not provide these people with bikes they enjoy? Are we the only ones entitled to fun on a mountain bike? Are they not allowed to have fun because they are weird? guess what we also look f*cking weird in our pink and neon yellow TLD pyjama's.
And RC I respect you a lot, love reading your articles but im afraid you have officially become old once you started thinking everything used to be better in the old days. The world is changing get over it.
While I'm not going to buy and electric assist mountain bike any time soon I do think this is going to be the next major development in the bike industry over 5 to 10 years. They will become much lighter and more efficient and be either intended as a light duty pedal assist where the assist is only used in short bursts perhaps even as an alternative to the small step multi-gear drive trains we have now and a heavier duty always or almost always on assist.
This is the same question that has been getting asked about regular mountain bikes for decades. There is no more hope of keeping capable electric mountain bikes off bike paths and out of the mountains than there has been keeping all of us out for the past 30 years so get used to seeing more electric bikes on the trails.
If you condemn folks who want a power assist bike just because you don’t you’re no better than all the hikers naturalists and other narrow minded people who tried to prevent mountain biking from becoming the sport we all love today.
Honestly, I do think we will start seeing eBikes on the trails, way back deep in my favorite trails that take me 90min of hard climbing to get to. Maybe I don't like this because I feel I worked hard to get there and the fact that someone can do this more easily and faster than I can somehow makes my accomplishment less special? I don't know. Maybe just something I'll get used to when it starts happening. If so, I will be nice about it, and show respect to get respect.
The issue, deeper down, is question of bike manufacturers "cashing in" in increasingly larger amounts.
Hardcore riders who can actually *ride* up the damn mountain will always be a sub-sub-section of a larger group of untrained hacks, weekend warriors and thrill seekers. In this group however the manufacturers will find plenty of folks with more cash than brains and/or skills, in business parlance "a market". Most if not all the brands I see advertised on PB and elsewhere cater to one or more of these markets, and the biggest brands need to have presence across multiple markets if they are to sustain their activities and turn a profit.
And as we all know, the manufacturer produces and sells the goods and it's up to someone else - mainly those pesky legislators - to come up with laws, directives, limitations etc, which in turn will be addressed by one or another well funded lobby.
There's really very little we can do to oppose to this degeneration: it *will* happen, under our own eyes. As mountainbikers we will to police and attempt to self-regulate but in the end entropy will prevail.
I see a future where alpine transalp-style rides won't be allowed at all, and we will all - DHers, FRers, Xcers,E-shredders, etc - be bunched in one big category which will only be allowed to ride in restricted and designated areas, just like chimps roaming freely in their zoo enclosures....sad.
It is due to a lack of trail etiquette that we see so much conflict between user groups.
Regulating trails to say one user group or another can or can't use it won't stop the idiots from using it as they do not care about the consequences of their actions and will ride whatever they want. I have built a trail catered to riding with my seven year old on leased private property and have an issue with people coming in and "help" improve the jumps so that they are bigger etc. and then be told a xc rider that hit my son that my son shouldn't be on these trails as he wasn't fast enough!!! They were his trails to ride.
This brings me back to the original start of this article the three types of trail users. It doesn't matter what type of rider you are, whether you built the trail or are just user we need to get more people riding that have common sense and teach trail etiquette to the kids at a younger age.
"I'm older than you, I've been here longer than you, I'm better than you, therefore my opinion is valid, yours isn't. I'm entitled to ride a bike, you just think you are"
Usual rubbish from Richard Cunningham then.
Sweet clickbait ramble, though. I dig it. You ever think of automating--getting some coder to write a program that optimizes Sky Is Falling Net Rage Index? Or would that be unpure?
I rode some e-Bikes this weekend, had a ton of fun. Remember fun?
Who? That's right. Nobody.
I can't believe more people can't see the enormous potential of Ebikes.. Emagine trails that are just as ridiculously sick going up, as they are going down. All green & solar powered by a panel on your roof of your house(or car), or even better, by your employers power bill.
I don't know.. Maybe some people are just scared stiff they will start looking like idiots shuttling their DH bikes with their 10 mpg gas guzzling Escalade Monster Trucks, while the folks with Ebikes are quietly riding their bikes from the house to the trail head, from out of state!
Future looks bright and you can't stop it! We're gonna need to legally build a lot more trail.
www.audi.co.uk/audi-innovation/concept-cars/audi-e-bike-concept.html
Love the fold down seat, genius.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_h-WxZgMfM
It's quite obvious the majority of comments are written by people who have no understanding that a pedal assist eBike doesn't let you sit in the saddle and twist a throttle, you actually have to pedal, and with a generally heavier bike that effort is not minimal. Be nice if a few of the more strident actually went out and tried one and then they might be qualified to comment. I've ridden both in my day so most of what is written here about ebikes is ignorant bull.
Second, being a lover of all things considered toys I would absolutely love a electric mtn bike! And any of you claiming you wouldn't are liars. Fact.
Do they belong on REGULAR trails? No. Would they be righteous on their own trails? Shit yeah!
People that disrespect your trails will do so on any bike, not just e-bikes.
Land owners blame mountain bikes for damage done by motorcycles, because they are stupid. E-bikes will make no difference to this stupidity.
If you want to pedal up hill purely on your own power, fine go ahead and do so, but don't jump on your elitist pedestal and deny someone else that cannot get up that hill without a bit of help (old, injured, the spouse) the pleasure of being outdoors and getting some views.
Hiding all your trails and keeping them secret shows the land owners that only a select few are using them. If 100's or 1000's of riders use a trail then they are more likely to keep it open. They are not the devil, they just cater for the majority and you and your buddies on your secret trail are not the majority. Look at NZ, they understand this. Even in anti-bike Australia we have had walkers banned from a trail after the walkers tried to ban mountain bikes simply because there were more mountain bikers using it than walkers. Power in numbers keeps trails open. Not rants on a new type of bike.
1. Stop with the Motor + Bike = Motorbike. Irrelevant semantics. We all know that if you put these things on a spectrum, e bikes are one degree of separation from mtb's, and 10 degrees of separation from motorcycles. No throttle. No noise. No exhaust. Limited to 20 mph. Same size tires as many non pedal assist mtb's.
2. Riding an e bike in an ATV/Motorcycle area would be extremely dangerous, for all concerned. Also, ATV areas are well outside most cities - not a viable option for daily riding.
3. Limited e bikes (like Specialized Levo for example) do NOT damage trails.
4. How would an e bike affect your mtb experience? They are slower down, maybe a couple mph faster up?
5. With regard to the losing hard won access to hikers, limited e bikes will have little to no impact - and certainly less impact on hikers than the DH crew that fly down trails on the verge of losing control, scaring the sh!t out of hikers (I see it every time I ride).
6. With regard to losing hard won access - don't you think your trail riding interest would be better advanced by the inclusion of the demographic that is drawn to e bikes (e.g. 50+ wealthier riders)? Do you really think that trying to keep your "community" a small aggressive group of unfriendly judgmental diehards will advance your greater interests of opening up more public lands to trail riding?
7. You have no inherent superior right to use a trail than anyone else, nor do you have any right to limit the number of people using trails because you were there first.
8. What argument remains? Oh, your personal opinion as to what mountain biking should be. Let that control how you ride. But why should your opinion on what the sport should be controlling over the rest of us who choose to ride in a different manner?
Enough props and thanks cannot be given for your last comment. Thank you for taking a stand!
Reminds me of that old sketch from the Frost report on class.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mYY1QGK0jQ
Substitute mtb, eBike, uplift users, moto riders as required....
I'd also say e-bikes stay off xc or all mountain trails for sure there their for you to get some exercise not strava sizes
Once again there is a time and place for e-bikes
I find the MTB industry tries to "wag the dog" a lot. E-bikes is all just marketing crap and I have too much respect for my mountain biking brothers and sisters to seriously think they will ever enter the mainstream..
this is going to have be a shift in the industries perception of what is acceptable.
just sayin, its prob going to happen.
If you don't have the fitness or skills to ride to the top of trails you probably don't have the skills to ride down and after 1 or 2 attempts the e-biker will make his way back home and use it for grocery getting like it ought to be used.
Just my thought.
I rue the day that the shop I work at decides to carry them...if that day ever arrives.
No further questions, your honor.
Thanks for the great article RC. Like always worth reading.
2)Building trails is becoming cool with the 3rd gen
The "builder" movie coming soon will add to that.
One day we'll all ride our e bikes on government sanctioned trails downtown.
Sure, as a way for disabled people to access trails and the great outdoors, then fine. I can accept that. BUT in much the same way as disabled access has become a legislatory necessity for the majority of companies in the UK, I don't want to see e-bike suitability become a necessity to allowing mountain biking. What happens if you run out of charge? What happens if your complicated electrical drive system throws a relay or fuse? What if, having purchased an e-bike, you are able to get to remote locations that you can't get back from without one? Do you expect the gracious land owner to cover your ass with sufficient escapes to allow them to get liability insurance at a reasonable price? At least with a human-powered vehicle, there is a reasonable chance that if you could get there by yourself, you can get back by yourself.
And if you believe this I have a nice bridge to sell you.
I'd aay it depends on the area. Soil type, # of users, user demographics etc.
We've got a certain mtb mag already anti dh bikes anywhere but resort trails.
Imho, E bikes will not be sold in mass...too kooky
The same could be said of regular mountain bikes going into the backcountry but it is a hell of a lot easier to figure out when its time to turn back when your legs are powering you.
One more-- cycling has been distinguished for being a HUMAN-POWERED activity. We lose this quality, we lose the essence of the activity.
Okay, two more- if E-bikers want to ride trails. They can build their own to suit their straight-lined, corner-cutting, heavy-assed riding style.
Now I may feel differently if we had a network of trails that were very exclusive to mtb . bikes and these E bikes were becoming a burden clogging up trails and such but as it is, all of our trails while being meant for bikes and hiking are unfortunately very unprotected and you find the people on atvs destroying them, not out of curiosity of where does this lead or ignorance really not knowing it is not for them but simply to be fu@king a$$ holes that while never having tried it, know they hate mountain biking.
They don't rip the trails up like a moto, those on here who say that is the case clearly have not ridden or even seen one of these bikes (I ride MX and dirtbikes so I know what I am talking about).
E Bikes help get you up the hill quicker so you can enjoy the fun part and get back downhill more often. I only MTB with lift served or uplift days, am not interested in pedalling uphill for 2 hours for 10 mins of descent. They are coming and will not go away and are far more green than me being bussed up a hill 8 times on uplift days.
They are a no brainer for me - my NukeProof Mega will be in the for sale section soon...
Just as Cunningham says it... "Don't screw it up!"
I'm curious as to where our largest collective advocacy organization, IMBA, comes down on the question of e-mtb-bikes?
"Motorcycle"
Pedaling is part of the sport isn't it?
One thing though and that is the increasing resistance to non-hiking forms of recreation on public lands by conservancy groups. This includes mtb, walking your dog, climbing, etc. With money always an issue, there are an increasing number of these "conservancy" type groups who influence access policy by partnering with public land managers. I used quotes because it's not so much about how to better manage recreational lands in ways everyone can enjoy them but to exclude those activities that are inconsistent with their view or belief.
This is a great article as it examines how the popularity of these machines could jeopardize our trails and therefore our sport. Just as the A-holes who insist on ripping down multi-use pedestrian/equistrian trails in the name of Strava glory give mountain-bikers a bad name, so too will these. I fear the day when I get passed going uphill by someone out of control going 30 MPH!
That said, eBIkes will have their place in cycling as the years go on. Let's just hope that trail operators see that they are no different than ATV's or dirt bikes.
Something never mentioned in these "scary" articles is the benefit of e-bikes. I don't want them on our singletrack either, but they will make great transportation to and from work, or just around town as commuter bikes. For people like me who are slowly becoming disabled as the years roll by, I would ride an e bike to work instead of a car. You can put panniers and baskets on it to get groceries and beer runs for those who still like beer and wine, etc. I like to ride my old hard tail to work most days, but would consider an e bike on brutally hot days so I don't show up to work exhausted and overheated, as well as snowy or rainy days.
I think the bicycle manufacturing industry should focus marketing towards converting motorists into e-bike commuters, instead of getting lazy people onto our singletrack by eliminating a climb or two, only to have them quit anyway from blisters, forearm pump and sore taints, cause most non cyclists are racist against chamois and Lycra as well as breaking a sweat on a hill.
why should electric bikes be on a downhill train...Sorry but NO!
No matter how you look upon this subject and regardless of what so-called cool name(eBike)you throw on them this is the continued evolution of the motorcycle.
Please everybody lets all work together to keep them off our trails!
Fastfish
E bikes on mtb trails is like saying "I can't run the whole 56k so I will do so on my Segway that way I can still enjoy the experience". Sorry, unless they are in the bike lane, keep them at home.
At the same time if you are creating trails illegally, you're also not respectful of the environment, you're causing erosion and sullying public lands that everyone owns, not just you, and if you're on private land without the owners knowing, you're worse than parasites.
Rules about illegal trail building are made for actual legitimate reasons, it's not "the man" stepping on your throat with an iron boot, illegal trails open up the owners -- that's us tax payers -- to liability, there is trash, there is arsonists, there is illegal fire rings, all the usual problems when aholes make illegal trails even beyond erosion and unsightly damage.
So electric toy riders are equal to aholes that make illegal trails. They deserve each other.
Mountain biking isn't easy. It isn't supposed to be easy. We live in this world where everyone feels entitled to be as good as everyone else at everything all the time. I go on rides with friends and they sometimes say things like "its not fair that you're so fit" or "i could never do that." Those are cop-outs. They fail to realize the serious time investment that I have made to get to the point I am at. It WASN'T FREE and it sure as hell wasn't easy. It isn't supposed to be easy. We go out into the woods to pedal and to suffer and the experience the elation that can only be achieved through innumerable failures. Go and fail. Be frustrated. Embrace that frustration. Without those failures your lens for success will be clouded and out of focus.
The E-bike has no place in the woods. They are not mountain bicycles. They represent the problem and I think that RC hits that on the head. Kudos.