Review: Pacenti PDent Handlebar and Stem

Sep 30, 2015
by Richard Cunningham  



For those who are joining the conversation, PDent is literally a dent in the center section of the handlebar that allows the fork's steerer tube and Pacenti's carbon handlebar to occupy the same space. Without the dent, the shortest that a conventional stem that can be made is about 32 millimeters before the bar and steerer tube touch. "Conventional" is the keyword here, because shorter stems are presently available that place the handlebar above the steerer tube, but at the expense of a ridiculously tall handlebar height. So, designer Kirk Pacenti's patented PDent solution is to dent the handlebar in a place where stresses are actually quite low, in order to create stem lengths in the neighborhood of 25 to 15 millimeters that share the same low profile as the 50-millimeter shorties that all-mountain and enduro riders presently know and love.



PDent Bar and Stem

• Stem: CNC-machined aluminum, black anodize, four-bolt clamp, 15 or 25mm extensions
• Steerer diameter: 1, 1/8"
• Clamp diameter: 31.8mm
• Handlebar: Carbon, 31.8mm clamp area, 8-degree sweep/5-degree up, 15mm rise, 800mm width
• Weights: Handlebar - 220g, stem (25mm) - 140g
• MSRP: TBD (Apx. $180 USD for bar and stem)
• Delivery: January, 2016
• Contact: Pacenti Cycle Design
Pdent stem technology 2015


Pacenti sells the PDent stem and handlebar as a combination - or we should say, "will sell," because no MSRP has been published as of this moment, and delivery is scheduled for January 2016. We received production versions to test, so when they do hit the stores, this is one combination that you will actually be able to purchase. Pacenti intends to engage OEM customers before he makes a less expensive aluminum handlebar and a more manufacturing friendly forged-aluminum stem. Presently, handlebars are carbon fiber only and sold in 800-millimeter widths with a 31.8 millimeter clamping diameter. PDent stems are beautifully machined from aluminum, with a four-bolt clamp to fit 1 1/8-inch steerers. Our test stem was a 25-millimeter model and, as mentioned, a 15-millimeter stem will also be available. Weights on our scale were 220 grams for the bar and 140 grams for the stem, which is lightweight for an all-mountain combo.

Pacenti PDent handlebar and stem 2015
Pacenti PDent handlebar and stem 2015
Pacenti's PDent stem is machined from just about every direction to reduce its weight. The window in the center marks where the handlebar and steerer would normally overlap.


Riding PDent

Kirk Pacenti says that the ultimate stem length for a trailbike designed to maximize technical riding is between 10 and 30 millimeters - with the caveat that the top tube length be adjusted to compensate for proper reach. His take is that because it is difficult to make stems shorter than what we presently have, that the industry at large has yet to experiment with geometry that incorporates stems in that range (Mondraker being the exception here).

To test his theories, I bolted the PDent combination to a Commencal Meta V4, which is slightly large for me and thus, has a top tube length long enough to make up for most of the 25mm (one inch) difference created by substituting the 50-millimeter stem I had been using. I also cut the handlebar from 800 millimeters to a more useable 770 - a bit wider than the 760-millimeter bar that I prefer, but experience shows that a shorter stem usually requires a wider bar to compensate for the faster steering response generated by the stem's reduced moment arm.

Pacenti PDent handlebar and stem 2015
From the rider's point of view, the PDent stem seems shorter than it actually is.

Alrighty then. As one may expect, the first sensations I experienced were that I was much more in contact with what the front tire was doing, and that the steering was way quicker than I was comfortable with. After an hour of playing around with small jumps and boulder drops, however, the Commencal's forgiving handling returned and I was able to enjoy the changes that PDent brought to my once-familiar trailbike.

Climbing was somewhat plagued by a wiggly front end that never quieted - a situation that continued after I had arrived at the point where I was no longer conscious of the other changes that PDent had made to the Commencal's handling. As I have become handy at figuring out how to be comfortable on a wide variety of bikes, I'll call the wiggly climbing out as a negative handling trait that some could overlook in light of the benefits that the system provides to other aspects of the bike's handling.

It would be easy to assume, because direct mount fork crowns allow DH bikes to be regularly ridden with stem-lengths in the 25-millimeter range, that a trailbike would perform similarly, but such is not the case. The trailbike's steeper head angle, combined with its shorter fork length, places the front tire nearly two inches closer to the rider, so there is a significant forward weight shift that the trailbike rider must compensate for in all aspects of its performance envelope. That is especially so on the downs, where the rider can put much more pressure on the front tire and is looking well ahead of the bike.

But, there is a plus side to that lean-forward stance. The front tire tends to stick like glue to the trail surface, and it doesn't push much, even if you forget to properly bank the bike into the bends. Better still, once you get over the face-forward attack position that PDent encourages on the steeps, you'll discover that the bike can be steered with a remarkable sense of security while descending chutes that most riders skid their way down, using hope as a line choice.
Pacenti PDent handlebar and stem 2015
Looking inside the stem, the "dent" is well rounded, which allows the handlebar to be rotated a total of 13 degrees without binding on the steerer tube. That's plenty of adjustment.

I found that I could brake with the front tire much harder and later too. The greatest paradox of the PDent's shorty stem and lean-forward stance, however, is that it becomes easier to loft the front end on the downs while you are hovering closer to the handlebar and putting more weight on the front wheel. Of course, that is usually the case - anytime I actually do get forward enough on my bike and attack a steep descent.

The magic of PDent is that it curtails the option to get too far back over the saddle and screw it up. I'd swear that the bike was handling the downs better, but the truth was that PDent was forcing me to adopt a better riding position. Once I was shamed by that fact that I was using the "eject" and not the "attack" position, I began to ride equally as well with my 50-millimeter stem bikes. Of course, most trail bikes are designed around 50 millimeter stems, which underscores Kirk Pacenti's statement that PDent was developed to allow bike makers to progress to the next level of chassis design - one based upon super-short stems, of course. Until that time, PDent will be a godsend to those who have been wishing for sub-30 millimeter stems and a nudge for designers to consider different paths towards making the ultimate trail bike.


Pinkbike's Take:
bigquotesPDent is going to be popular with riders at the more extreme end of the all-mountain category who live for the downs and yet, possess the fitness to smile at passersby as they muscle their thousand gram tires, Fox 36 fork, and 160-millimeter-travel chassis uphill for two hours to access the tastiest morsels on the mountain. PDent could also gain popularity among mainstream trail riders, but not until bike makers incorporate their frame metrics to blend seamlessly with the different steering attributes of sub 30-millimeter stems. Simply buying up to the next frame size in order to match a longer top tube with a shorter stem is not enough. After riding PDent, I believe that splitting the difference, by choosing a bike with a one-degree slacker head tube angle, paired with a ten to fifteen millimeter longer top tube, would deliver a better PDent handling package in all theaters of the trail riding experience. PDent gives riders and bike makers a new option. - RC




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155 Comments
  • 101 4
 Imagine becoming rich just by denting a handlebar..
  • 128 1
 Imagine being rich by inventing pool noodles
  • 89 1
 Imagine becoming rich by developing a product in the MTB industry...oh wait that doesn't happen
  • 42 2
 Funny he calls it a 'system' and slaps a big patent pending on it, but still, HE thought of it first and not you. Besides, Pacenti was pushing for 650b bikes when everyone else was still in diapers
  • 42 2
 Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do
  • 25 27
 Great, Pacenti pushed 650b, the "revolutionary" wheelsize. What a hero. Of the back of that we have 27.5+ and all sorts of other bullshit standards which do nothing for the average rider except get them to spend more money
  • 28 6
 Here's a revolutionary idea! How about a slightly smaller diameter tube? I reckon about 25.4mm, that should do it

Wink
  • 2 1
 @Eddkilla - Pacenti is already big in the road bike world for rims. Too bad they suck... so many of their rims have spokes pull through the rim.
  • 11 2
 Thank you Pacenti for solving another problem that I didnt have. And trailbikes with the wheelbase of a truck, yea, that's the future of bike design.
  • 1 0
 for a second I thought the tittle said Patent Pending...
  • 6 3
 Or you just taper the bar towards you with any regular stem and you can have a negative virtual stem length, no dent needed, this is ridiculous haha.
  • 3 0
 You'd better patent that before Dave weagle reads it :-)
  • 4 4
 Some good points raised here, if we suddenly need shorter stems than 35mm, why not go back to 25.4mm dia bars!? Pretty sure they used to hold up just fine and would probly resolve the issue of alloy bars being stiffer than carbon too... Also this design doesn't allow enough bar roll for all riders styles.
The design really is about as dumb as increasing a wheel and tyre diameter by not even 20mm and claiming it as revolutionary, then giving it a bs misleading name to make it sound like halfway between two other wheel sizes... I think Trek should employ this pacenti guy, they seem to have the same ethic that insignificant improvements must be forced on the industry with entirely new standards for everything every ten minutes
  • 3 0
 I'm gonna patent dented steerer tubes muahahaha. Don't tell nobody. Ah crap....
  • 2 1
 @Lurch-ECD Some may say you're à dreamer... (But you're not the only one)
  • 6 1
 If u have tried going from a 50 to 40 mill stem then u know there is a difference. So there must be more of a difference going from 50 to 30. So say what u want. Some people will want this. Always good to have options like this. If u don't like it don't buy it.
  • 3 0
 And I'm just here smiling, knowing that the lot of these haters will be running dented bars in 5 years.
  • 2 0
 I was just being facetious, this is a decent idea. A friend and I were talking about this the other day. The closer to zero offset you can get the better, but there aren't many ways to do it that are particularly good, especially on a DH bike.
  • 3 0
 @sam264: With a 35mm stem there already is zero offset with a 7 degree backsweep handlebar. That is, if you trace a line from the center of one grip to the other it will go right through the top cap bolt. And if you use a 9 degree backsweep handlebar you have negative offset, which I have been using and is nice. I was actually considering this bar-stem combo but I figured that with my setup I have the same negative offset as this, because this bar only has a 7 degree backsweep. Those extra two degrees mean one centimeter further back, which is what this stem provides.
  • 49 0
 Until now PB told us that a 50 mm stem puts more weight on the front wheel than a 35 mm one (what I'm able to understand). And now an even shorter stem allows you to put more weight on the front wheel ?
Are you sure of that ?
  • 9 0
 This is puzzling me as well. I mean... what?!
  • 14 0
 That's my question as well. From personal experience (and conventional wisdom) I know that all other things equal, a longer stems puts more weight on the front wheel. The "effective" reach becomes longer so your own CoG moves a bit fwd. That's why I changed from a 40mm stem to a 60mm one. The change cured my front wheel washing out problems too. Which also proves that, depending on bike geo, too short can actually be bad.
  • 10 0
 Yeh agreed! I've been building my own frames for a while and experimenting with ever longer top tubes combined with ever shorter stems. The shorter the stem the less weight goes on to the front wheel. I've had to use lighter weight springs in my forks because of the shorter stem. If you took it to extremes - a 200mm stem would put loads of your weight on the front wheel.
Are you sure about what you're saying there PB?
  • 3 4
 Remember that the stem governs where the bar sits relative to the center of the steerer at the rider end.
The crown offset and axle toe in then effect where the wheel sits relative to the steerer at the other end of the fork.
What can make for a different feel is the difference in these offsets. This stem will feel different with different forks.
Then add in the effects of head angle, bar sweep and position and things are never simple.
.... bottom line... ride whatever you feel comfortable with and works for you. Smile
  • 13 1
 @betsie, you're talking about the feeling of different forks and you're totaly right.
But if you isolate the stem, and we're only talking about stem, the longer the more weight on the front end.

I think we need to take into account that Richard took a bike that is too long for him so he was unable to get that correct position, which has been solved by the shorter stem, hence more weight on the front wheel.
If he had a bike that suited him well in the first place, the effect of the shorter stem would have been what we know.
I think this is key to understant his statement, and it would have been great if he'd explained it better.
  • 5 0
 @RichardCunningham It got me confused as well, could you shed some light on that? Thanks!
  • 9 0
 I think what he was saying is the shorter stem un-weights the front wheel (like stated in the past) which in this case is so extreme that it forces you to change your riding stance to be more forward to compensate. This in turn actually puts more weight on the front wheel than a long stem with a rearward stance.

Side note- 35mm length stems have existed for a while and bike companies have continued sticking to building around a 50mm stem. So why would they all of sudden want to design around a 15mm or 25mm stem?
  • 12 3
 It all depends on application, on what kind of bike being used for what kind of riding. Short stems are terrible at low speeds so if you do lots of tech climbing or need precision at low speeds, it is worth sht. The faster you go the more stable bike becomes, due to kinetic force of your bike mashing into things and getting less fiddled by it, but also due to inertia, which gets magnified by tyre wheel weight (DH tyres) or that weight being located on larger radius (29er), along with geometry (i.e HA, BB drop, Wheelbase), so you may want something to destabilize it so that you can frickin turn. When we talk 100mm stem vs 40mm, yea that's something to discuss about, but 35 vs 25, sorry, it's like one of those companies making carbon levers with slogans like: "50% weight drop compared to alu!" Which means 8g instead of 16g. Sure you are free to find your sweet spot. Kirk is still subtle with it, because if it was Trek or Sram releasing such product, the business case would end up with statement: "it is a discovery of magnitude of Higgs Bozon and it is so much better"
  • 3 0
 Tried a 40mm stem, didn't like it No Sir Not a bit Went back to 50
  • 6 0
 You need to try 49mm, it's the new 50
  • 11 1
 Sorry for the confusion about more weight on the front wheel. Yes, technically, a longer stem will weight the front wheel more on level ground. When the bike is pointed down a steep, a stem that places the handlebar more in line with the fork allows the rider to weight the front tire full force without destabilizing the steering. In better words: the rider can more easily elect to shift more of his or her weight to the front wheel without ramifications while descending or turning. This is what I was referring to.
RC
  • 2 0
 Sub 30mm used to be way higher, that's why you couldn't charge more than à lower 50 stem.
  • 2 0
 He also stated that he went with a wider bar then what he would normally ride. And shorter stems normally go with wider bars. One of the reasons is, as u widen out ur hands ur upper body moves forward. And more weight over the front. But less over the front cause of the shorter stem. So maybe even out but steering feel changes with Diffrent set ups.
  • 4 3
 When exactly is everyone weighing their front end so often? Especially on steeps? This becomes a nice occasion to state the size of your penis "I have my weight on the front a lot! So i need a short stem". Ummm no, I bet you are hanging off the bars, curled like a fetus hanging your bum too far back. Also with geometry front/rear center balance can shift up to 5kg of your weight to/from front wheel, in static terms. Currently we see a shift to short stays and long fronts so if you want more weight on the front then you better keep your old bike
  • 1 2
 WAKI . There is more to it than anyone has hypothesised on here. Much more. Watch some of the GMBN videos on YouTube.
  • 2 1
 Betsie, I watched many, maaany videos from GMBN, so you have to tell me which one as I don't really remember anything about super short stems.
  • 1 0
 WAKI. Watch them again. Don't listen for super short stems. Listen for stem length references.
  • 1 1
 Ok, very well! I will keep my ears sharp for stem length next time I see something from them Smile I have 40mm stem on my "pump bike" Big Grin
  • 1 0
 Do you remember arguing this back in 2006 or was that darkhorse
  • 52 13
 Only in Umerika can you patent a fucking dent in a tube
  • 9 1
 Patent Pending. It's not actually patented yet. Yet.
  • 10 0
 I'm pretty sure there's prior art for denting a thing to bring it closer to another thing.
  • 61 1
 Patent Bending.
  • 3 5
 You didn't think of it, so who are you to say it is such an easy fix? This idea is brilliant, and very worthy of a patent.
  • 1 0
 If apple can patent rounded corners and using email in a smartphone, then why not this?
  • 4 3
 Patent Denting?
  • 5 1
 at least spell it correctly: 'Murica
  • 18 1
 "the fitness to smile at passersby as they muscle their thousand gram tires, Fox 36 fork, and 160-millimeter-travel chassis uphill"

Are you saying I have an excuse, on my WTB Vigilante CCDB Fox36RC2 SB66, as to why I really do not like climbing? My current beefcake build weighs 34.2# and something I XC around the front range often.
  • 12 27
flag VPS13 (Sep 30, 2015 at 23:03) (Below Threshold)
 This is so fucking stupid who cares about a few mm when it comes to a stem... If you think this will make you a better rider, perhaps it would be better served as something you should sit on. Then again maybe I am not on the extreme end of the all mountain category, perhaps I don't live for the downs. Look closely at a mm tape as see the difference we are talking about here...
  • 6 0
 every little bit helps, but I agree in this case VPS13. I remember when Jerome Clementz was cleaning up the with 21mm wide rims when EWS started...yet everyday riders HAD to have 30mm internal width wheels to progress their riding.
  • 15 2
 Its all marketing man, tell the people what they need to buy to ride like the pros and they eat it up. I ride what puts a smile on my face and keeps me happy, that's all that matters. Then again I am not paid to say things make me faster or a better rider so what do I know.
  • 6 0
 And here I was thinking my new 40mm stem was short.......
  • 1 0
 I ride quite a lot of XC on my 16.5 kg (36.4) Range, but I do suffer more than my friends riding their 10 kg (22) bikes and have way more fun! :cheers:
  • 6 0
 Made a huge difference going from 50mm to 35mm. It has claims.

You don't have to buy it if you don't need it. I certainly won't. But it's valid.

I remember 100mm stems the norm, 25.4 clamp and 620mm bars. I certainly wouldn't go back! Could I ride a bike hard with such "passé" set up? Absolutely. But why?

Coul
  • 3 1
 The ultimate trailbike needs to climb in technical terrain as well as descend, without excuses or caveats. And remember bike fit? How many people just jump on a bike and the combo of bars, stem, and seat is perfect? Designing bikes around this system would be pretty short-sighted in terms of fit. And Jerome also cleaned up in his first season on a bike with 26" wheels.
  • 19 0
 I'll dent your bars for 50 bucks a bar. Save money by using your current bar! 10 percent off for the first 100 customers!
  • 16 0
 Thank god. My 60mm stem was really holding me back.
  • 5 0
 You think that's bad?! I'm stuck on a horrid 75mm stem! I don't know how I manage to ride it!
  • 11 0
 60mm? Whoa, is your bike from 1899? To be bang on trend you need to be using a 59mm. Need to get with the times man.
  • 32 0
 I think you'll find it was actually holding you forward...
  • 12 1
 The "moment arm" with a 25mm stem is not much shorter than a 50mm stem because the "moment arm" is the distance from the grip to the center of rotation which is the head tube axis. For a 25mm stem and a 760mm bar vs. a 50mm stem and a 760mm bar the difference in "moment arm" is only 0.6%. The difference in handling ( I have experienced some of this as I am running a 35mm stem coming from a 50mm stem and a 70mm stem before that) is much greater than the difference in "moment arm", so the difference in handling must be due to other geometry factors.
  • 5 0
 better riding through science
  • 10 1
 Weird science, eh? I find that to balance a change in stem length in order to achieve a similar steering feel requires about the same difference in H-bar width (which is sometimes not possible). Longer stems can use narrower bars and vice versa. Of course, there is no problem with picking your favorite width and simply getting used to the new feel.

Fabien Barel told me (and experiments back it up) that once you get the stem too short, and your grips get behind the steering axis, that the steering feels destabilized. He says 10 to 15mm stems are as far as he could take the concept during testing at Mondraker.
  • 1 0
 Time to break out the Patterson control method. . .
  • 2 0
 Thanks Ridge-Rider. Summed up, it's basically all about where you grip compared to the steering axis. How you get to that point doesn't matter. The handlebar itself could have the rearward offset built in to emulate the steering feel of super short stem.
  • 1 0
 Yes and this stem-bar combo has both.
  • 6 0
 Another (better) solution to this problem (ahem) is just to move the point at which the bend in the handlebars start inboard a little. The net effect is the same, without having to put a dent in the bar.

I'm sure the effect Barel mention of bars being too far back can be achieved with existing bars and a 32mm stem?
  • 5 0
 What about the sweep angle? If you have a 40mm stem and a bar with more sweep (assuming your wrists are comfortable), won't you be able to achieve the same hand position, relative to the steering axis? And front axle, for that matter.
  • 1 0
 I completely agree with phutphutend. No patents or pdents needed. Doesn't Easton currently have a 32mm length Haven stem, using the larger 35mm bar diameter? Using that stem along with a new bar with some joggle bends, I would be surprised if you couldn't get your grips in the same position as this does. I don't think back-sweep would need to be increased and I don't think the bar would have to have any real dramatic bends which might interfere with your brake/shifter mounting. Maybe it would add about 10 grams to a ~760mm carbon bar to do it all...
  • 13 0
 180 for a 800mm carbon bar and stem isn't all that bad. When some of the main players bars are going for 150 just for the handlebar alone.
  • 10 1
 Ok I’m gonna’ try cutting a 1 1/8” hole in the bottom of my handlebar and mount it directly on top of the steer tube. And if that isn’t enough I’m gonna’ try mounting my stem facing backwards. My 50mm Chromag would be -50mm if I’m not mistaken.

Joking aside, I dig the out of the box ingenuity! This kind of thinking gave us mountain bikes in the first place.
  • 8 1
 Why knock inovation? Just a couple of years ago, 70mm stems where good. Advances in geometry and components make YOUR ride better. We could spend all day bitching about a dent or boost etc but all ill say is this. Bolt thru. Front or rear. Everyone bitched. Would you be without it now? Er no. Likewise droppers, good air shocks etc. Without inovation, we go stale. Its not marketing. No marketing person in this industry has cash to splash on things that dont do anything. Its like bitching that the latest model of your car now comes with a DAB radio and a reversing camera.
  • 1 0
 Apples and oranges bud...
  • 6 9
 yes but would you want to ride that stem? i wouldn't, it looks ugly and raises the bar height too much...
  • 6 0
 Yep. It says that in TFA:

> shorter stems are presently available that place the handlebar above the steerer tube, but at the expense of a ridiculously tall handlebar height
  • 3 0
 Haha i had that stem with Azonic Chubby bars, triple clamp fork on a hard tail back probably 15 years ago. Rode like shit but I thought I was the cats meow......
  • 2 2
 why did i get neg propped aha, i was referring to the azonic one and it even says in the article that they do raise the bar height too much?
  • 6 1
 The commencals headtube is notched...to make correctly installing anglesets easier? That's awesome! Now fork manufacturers can we please have a steerer tube notch/ groove so we get our stems aligned correctly every time? This is especially difficult with shorter stems, they look straight until you roll down the first trail and realise you're off by a fraction!
  • 4 1
 Get a DH bike with direct mount stem. Problem solved.
  • 5 1
 The stem will twist in a crash, a notch could potentially break your steerer tube which is much more troublesome than re-aligning your stem
  • 6 0
 It doesn't need to be a great big hole in the steerer...what about just painting a line up the back of the steerer??
  • 2 0
 @ThomDawson: SHHHH; what are you doing?! Go patent that real quick! Wink
  • 9 0
 Should be called PaDENTi
  • 3 0
 As the article clearly states, this stem is not for everyone or every bike; The industry as a whole has not adopted the longer top tube/shorter stem approach to bike frames/cockpit, there are some that look to be headed that way though, and this stem/handlebar combo can/will expand what is possible for bike geometry.

I am somewhat an early adopter of this "trend" as some would call it, and I like it. My large GG Megatrail has a reach that is nearly an inch longer than many XL frames, I currently ride with a 40mm stem and 800mm bars and it feels amazing going up and down. I would not mind giving this system a try, but its not like i'm going to throw out my Renthal/Enve stem and bars as soon as these are available.
  • 1 1
 Same here. I have a Transition Smuggler in large that is like two full inches longer in reach than my large Bandit 29. I've been running 40-45mm stems and 765-780mm handlebars for several years across 3 different bikes, only because I prefer the steering feel of a wide/short combo. The Smuggler is the first bike that really made sense with my short stem preference, and it feels awesome, although I'm probably only scratching the surface of its capabilities. The long reach/short stem really forces me into the attack position more, and tight turns are easier despite the longer wheelbase. I'm intrigued by this pdent system, but not necessarily enough to spend actual money on it.
  • 5 3
 Very cool idea! It's smart but in my eyes it's just another standard these frame manufactures don't need! Why lengthen top tubes even more just to accept this and to please one person while bashing on a dozen others. For now I'll stick to my 35mm stems and let others who bought the wrong frame sizes use this idea!
  • 5 0
 35mm sounds pretty damn short- wouldn't 25mm just be one 'notch' further?
  • 2 1
 35mm is sweet on a 29er to sharpen thinns up
  • 3 0
 Ha... notch. Pun.
  • 2 0
 I'm not sure I agree with the argument that bike manufacturers are designing bikes around 50mm stems because "systems" like the Pdent didn't exist in order to make a superior geometry. 35mm length stems have been plentiful for a long time and don't require a dent, so wouldn't that be the length manufacturers designed bike geometry around if shorter stems are always better?
  • 2 0
 maybe has to do with which companies are manufacturing 35mm stems? Just guessing here, but maybe you're an OEM that wants a purchasing contract for 20 000 stems from a manufacturer whose shortest stem is 55mm. Or maybe they make a 35mm but only in their top-of-the-line (or bottom) offering, but you need to be able to spec out the same exact frame at 4 or 5 different build levels. You can't design the frame around a stem length that you can only get at one price point and compromise the handling on all the other builds, and you gotta buy all the bits from the same brand because you get a better deal.

Also frame weights...people want their frames to be light. A short stem doesn't save much weight at all, but a equally longer top tube adds more to the frame weight. So maybe that's in the balance, too, for why a frame designer might just stick with the longer stem. Easier to source parts and the frame is a bit lighter.

All this being said, Pacenti is still the small guy so we're not going to see instant sweeping change, even if it's better. It's going to have to be a lot better for major manufacturers to start licensing the idea to produce their own.
  • 3 0
 Pretty sure if you approach a company with an order for 20-30,000 stems, they'll find a way to machine those f*cking stems! even if they have to sub the contract out.
  • 1 0
 hahaha! You got me there!...I haven't got a clue what a reasonable number is! And only a vague idea of how these decisions get made. I've often wondered just how many bikes some companies sell. Hopefully my point stands, maybe not.

This got me thinking though...is there any reason (handling, bike fit, whatever) why a size Large bike would come with a longer stem than a Small size, except that they didn't actually make the frame long enough to properly fit a taller rider?
  • 2 0
 No they mostly base it on a 50 mill stem. Leaves room to go to a 40 or 35. Or go longer 60 or 70. So they start at 50 and let the people have a choice.
  • 1 0
 PDent Bar and Stem

• Stem: CNC-machined aluminum, black anodize, four-bolt clamp, 15 or 25mm extensions
• Steerer diameter: 1, 1/8"
• Clamp diameter: 31.8mm
• Handlebar: Carbon, 31.8mm clamp area, 8-degree sweep/5-degree up, 15mm rise, 180mm width
????? 180mm width ?????

Richard Cunningham, are you sure?
  • 1 0
 fix in order?
  • 5 1
 Very clever.
At the same time you ask yourself,;
Why I didn't think of that!
  • 5 4
 To me, the only interesting thing here is whether it is easier to make a dent in the bar or bend it so that grips end up in the same location and rotation as with super short stem, so then you can use a standard 40mm stem. Also grip radius is one thing but the stabilizing dragging effect of them being ahead of the steerer axis is yet another factor, depending if you want that or not. I totaly don't buy that crap with head angles because one thing is forks trail (HA+offset) and another is desired suspension action in relation to direction of forces coming at it, which is dependent on expected speed at which bike is going for most of the time. Naturally, from suspension action perspective, the faster you go, the slacker HA you want for sliders to have it easier to slide in. As a side effect, pedalling forces will have it harder to compress the fork. Simply put, that is a design option causing certain effects without them being neither better nor worse, creating certain advantage in certain sets of circumstances and disadvantages in other.
  • 1 0
 Thanks Waki, I also thought this: Can't a nicely bent handlebar have the same effect on a 40mm stem?

(But being also a motorcyclist, I am wondering when we will see negative stem lengths... would be interesting to have a ride!)
  • 3 0
 There is no advantage to having a separate stem/bar, if you can only use one specific bar with the stem. Why not just integrate them into one unit?
  • 3 0
 You could but you would loose the ability to adjust bar rotation.
  • 2 5
 you can't rotate the bar anyway with a dent in it. But for some reason they still have the little lines painted on the bar under the stem for adjusting rotation.
  • 2 1
 @hamplanet I was thinking the same thing, why have four bolts on the front of the stem when you cant make any adjustments to it, make it all one piece, lighter and stronger!
  • 5 0
 13 degrees of rotation. It's up there.
  • 4 0
 ah...
  • 1 0
 It is not like this couldn't be achieved without some proprietary BS. Like with a handlebar that has a little bend backwards. No, Mr. Pacenti would much rather tell us 1cm less stem is worth giving up compatibility.
Oh, and I disagree that we need shorter stems. We haven't settled around 50mm for no reason - with a standard handlebar, you'd be able to go to ~30mm without any interference, yet nobody does. Guess why.
  • 1 0
 Lots of people run shorter then 50 mill.
  • 1 0
 I run a 90mm stem inverted, and I am not an old man.

Also I come from a bmx background, I never wanted to go with the steepest head angle or the shortest stem.

Question though....

We are always talking about sharpness of steering, I am not sure I like that, I know this more so relegates to head angle as well, but if we are wanting sharpness then why not make the headtubes more steep again?

It's weird how people are always claiming there bikes climb like a goat, though I am seeing so many differences in geometry on said bikes.

Also... Do none of you have tree's around where you live? I am 6' 6 and I run a 730mm bar... 800 was to wide for our trail system.

Bmx has seen the same trend pattern though, before people cut down there bars and a typical rise was about 7" nowdays you have bars with a 10" rise and 30" wide, and kids who were sub 5' tall running the newer tall bars and claiming the same type of control influence that I was having...
  • 4 0
 Just me or the comment font changed ?
  • 1 0
 It's all in bold for some reason...
  • 5 1
 180mm width? now thats #enduro. #signmeup
  • 4 0
 Can you actually rotate it as far as those indicators.. indicate?
  • 4 0
 Soon to be standard on Mojo Megatron builds.
  • 2 0
 "selling to oem". I would imagine WalMart Mongoose would be all over this, so handlebars cannot be installed backwards this Christmas.
  • 2 0
 I can't wait to get a go with this system! I've been using Pacenti products for the last 2 years and they never disappoint, so I'm sure this is no different! Nice one!
  • 1 0
 Can I patent putting it on backwards so it is behind the steerer tube. I would call my patent the "not that bothered" patent.
  • 7 4
 Renthal debuted a 31mm stem for 31.8mm bars SANS dent. Unimpressed.
  • 6 1
 But dude, think of how much faster you'll be bringing that bar an extra 6 mm closer to you!
  • 2 2
 More like how much more enduro!
  • 1 0
 I've heard Spank have a 30.2mm proto doing the rounds
  • 4 0
 Yeah, but I've seen a prototype of a 30.something stem, and the bar is in contact to the steerer tube, it feels like as if you just tighten the stem screws enough, you will end up with your own Pacenti design...
  • 4 0
 Sorry, I got it wrong. That stem I heard about is actually reputed to be 30.4mm in length, which by my calculation leaves a space of 0.2mm between the two tubes. You'd definitely be able to tell the 0.6mm difference in length over the renthal 31mm stem.
  • 1 0
 Can someone just get on with making a handlebar that splits in half to clamp directly onto the steer tube? That'll be the next step in this pursuit of the shortest stem
  • 3 0
 Skepticism aside, I'd try it. It's only money afterall.
  • 2 1
 All this to be able to shorten the stem by 7 mm? No surprise this comes from the guy who thought that 12 mm in wheel radius made a difference!
  • 2 0
 Here you go kids... Another thing to buy! Yer bike ll look cool with spacers longer than stem.
  • 1 0
 WTF I how do a few mm's man much of a difference. This industry and all the shit they try to advertise as the latest and greatest must have products is becoming exhausting.
  • 2 2
 my mondraker came with a 30mm stem, mondrakers already have these as oem and even have them in 10 & 20mm!

google: onoff stoic stem Wink
  • 2 0
 True but their 10 and 20mm stems clamp the bar over the steerer tube unlike this one...
  • 1 0
 You just wait the next big thing.... Handlebars with built in stems or would it be a stem with handlebars attached?
  • 5 4
 More products that no one needs from the man that brought us the wheelsize that no one needs.
  • 1 1
 Did the doods riding bloody climbing routes in the Dolomites use this? No. So no one needs it to maximize technical riding. That's it.
  • 1 0
 Begs the question who will come out with a 2 piece handlebar with a Y stem.
  • 2 0
 next patent for a dented steerer. keep it coming !
  • 3 1
 Stick those beautiful WTB anti rotation grips on that anti rotation bar!
  • 2 0
 "using hope as a line choice" some serious poetry here.
  • 1 0
 If any of this is true why haven't downhill bikes with direct mount stems used this geometry?
  • 1 0
 What ever happened to these? I haven’t seen an manufactures spec them and no advertising since this article
  • 2 2
 I'm sure people thought of this idea but probably didn't realize it would structurally be strong enough.. I like it!
  • 1 0
 Can't wait for PVD to claim 100mm negative rise stems are better
  • 1 0
 $180 for that, i've got a rounded hammer i'll do it for 5$.
  • 2 4
 haha I love how it has the angle lines engraved on the clamp area of the bar like you can actually adjust the angle of the bar that much lol
  • 1 2
 Given the dent, can you actually roll the bars fore or aft?? if yes, I guess the shorter the stem gets the less roll would be available in the bars... leading to variants in the position of the dent in the bars to suit the desired roll of the bars the user may want ... would be annoying for a retailer or distro
  • 5 0
 thirteen degrees.
  • 1 2
 since i'm not the tallest one i would like to know if i can cut the handlbar to 74cm or max width 76cm?
  • 1 1
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