Pinkbike Poll: What Area of Mountain Bike Technology Needs the Most Improvement?
Now that the chaos of Eurobike and Interbike has subsided and many of the hot new products for next year have been revealed, it's a good time to take a step back and examine the state of the modern mountain bike. As far as we've come from the era of coaster brakes and rigid forks, there's always room for improvement, although these days technology is so far advanced that new ideas tend to be less disruptive compared to the days when inventions like the suspension fork or hydraulic disc brakes first appeared.
![Shimano Di2 XTR]()
Drivetrain
Electronically controlled suspension and shifting have arrived, but they're not yet the norm largely due to the sky high cost, and the fact that non-electronic shifting and suspension work so well. 1x drivetrains continue to increase in popularity as more riders see the benefits of ditching the front derailleur, and as frames emerge that have been designed without even the option of mounting a front derailleur. What about gearboxes? That's the cry that comes up whenever drivetrains are mentioned, but although the concept is novel, the weight and added complexity continue to limit the number of options.
![Nicolai GeoMetron Review]()
Geometry
Bike geometry has seen a pronounced shift over the last few seasons, and the latest crop of all-mountain machines are longer and slacker than ever. Some companies are pushing the boundaries further than others, the Nicolai GeoMetron being the most obvious example, but it does seem like at a certain point the limits will be found – after all, riders still need to be able to reach their handlebars from a seated position, and no one wants to ride a bike that makes it feel like they're stretched out like Superman.
![Cane Creek DBCoil CS shock 2016]()
![DFL for Gwin but you gotta give the man credit for riding a tire wheel combo from halfway to the first woods at the top of the track all the way home. Sure 39 seconds off pace but he never let off the gas.]()
Wheels / Tires
What goes around comes around, and big tires and wide rims are back in fashion again. On one hand you have the 27.5+ movement, which involves mounting up 3.0” tires to rims that have internal dimensions of around 40mm, creating a wheel that has an overall height of close to 29”. 27.5+ still seems to be in the awkward adolescent phase, trying hard to figure out where it fits in, but I do think it will gain traction among beginner and intermediate riders who will appreciate the stability and the resulting increase in confidence that the wider tires bring. Hardtails are also an ideal use for the big tires, where the lower pressures that are possible help create a less jarring ride.
Wide rims aren't just for Plus bikes, and an internal width of 28-32mm seems to be the sweet spot for “regular” bikes, allowing riders to run lower pressures without ripping the tire off the rim. More and more companies are seeing the light, and I doubt it will be long before large companies like SRAM and Shimano join in with wide rims of their own. There are also several tires on the way designed specifically for wider rims, tires that are intended to prevent the square tread profile that can lead to odd handling on the trail.
Puncture resistance is still an area that could use improvement, especially now that riders are venturing into DH bike terrain on lighter tires. Schwalbe's ProCore, which uses a secondary internal chamber that allows riders to run even lower pressures and not risk denting their rims, is one attempt at addressing the issue, but the jury's still out as to how effective it actually is. Finding the balance between a tire that's light but durable is tricky, but there are several new sidewall construction techniques on the way that may potentially help.
Where does that leave us?
2016 is shaping up to be a year of refinements, full of small advances that will further elevate the current state of the mountain bike. All of this raises the question, “What area of mountain bike technology is in need of the most improvement?” Are you tired of adjusting your derailleur? Sick of bleeding your brakes? Frustrated by constant flats? What would would you change if you were in charge of developing the mountain bike of the future? Cast your vote below.
Electronic shifting and suspension controls are here, but not yet the norm.
Drivetrain
Electronically controlled suspension and shifting have arrived, but they're not yet the norm largely due to the sky high cost, and the fact that non-electronic shifting and suspension work so well. 1x drivetrains continue to increase in popularity as more riders see the benefits of ditching the front derailleur, and as frames emerge that have been designed without even the option of mounting a front derailleur. What about gearboxes? That's the cry that comes up whenever drivetrains are mentioned, but although the concept is novel, the weight and added complexity continue to limit the number of options.
How long and low can you go?
Geometry
Bike geometry has seen a pronounced shift over the last few seasons, and the latest crop of all-mountain machines are longer and slacker than ever. Some companies are pushing the boundaries further than others, the Nicolai GeoMetron being the most obvious example, but it does seem like at a certain point the limits will be found – after all, riders still need to be able to reach their handlebars from a seated position, and no one wants to ride a bike that makes it feel like they're stretched out like Superman.
Suspension Technology
Coil sprung shocks have appeared on the bikes of a number of high profile pros racing in the Enduro World Series this year, a trend made all the more surprising by the fact that air sprung suspension continues to become more common on the World Cup downhill circuit.
What does this mean for the average rider? It means air and coil sprung suspension options are continuing to improve, with the end result being that consumers have more capable choices than ever. 2016 looks like it will be bringing at least three coil sprung shocks equipped with a compression lever that allows them to be firmed up on-the-fly, which could further increase the number of riders that choose to go the coil route.
Coil sprung shocks have appeared on the bikes of a number of high profile pros racing in the Enduro World Series this year, a trend made all the more surprising by the fact that air sprung suspension continues to become more common on the World Cup downhill circuit.
What does this mean for the average rider? It means air and coil sprung suspension options are continuing to improve, with the end result being that consumers have more capable choices than ever. 2016 looks like it will be bringing at least three coil sprung shocks equipped with a compression lever that allows them to be firmed up on-the-fly, which could further increase the number of riders that choose to go the coil route.
The search for the cure for flat tires continues.
Wheels / Tires
What goes around comes around, and big tires and wide rims are back in fashion again. On one hand you have the 27.5+ movement, which involves mounting up 3.0” tires to rims that have internal dimensions of around 40mm, creating a wheel that has an overall height of close to 29”. 27.5+ still seems to be in the awkward adolescent phase, trying hard to figure out where it fits in, but I do think it will gain traction among beginner and intermediate riders who will appreciate the stability and the resulting increase in confidence that the wider tires bring. Hardtails are also an ideal use for the big tires, where the lower pressures that are possible help create a less jarring ride.
Wide rims aren't just for Plus bikes, and an internal width of 28-32mm seems to be the sweet spot for “regular” bikes, allowing riders to run lower pressures without ripping the tire off the rim. More and more companies are seeing the light, and I doubt it will be long before large companies like SRAM and Shimano join in with wide rims of their own. There are also several tires on the way designed specifically for wider rims, tires that are intended to prevent the square tread profile that can lead to odd handling on the trail.
Puncture resistance is still an area that could use improvement, especially now that riders are venturing into DH bike terrain on lighter tires. Schwalbe's ProCore, which uses a secondary internal chamber that allows riders to run even lower pressures and not risk denting their rims, is one attempt at addressing the issue, but the jury's still out as to how effective it actually is. Finding the balance between a tire that's light but durable is tricky, but there are several new sidewall construction techniques on the way that may potentially help.
Where does that leave us?
2016 is shaping up to be a year of refinements, full of small advances that will further elevate the current state of the mountain bike. All of this raises the question, “What area of mountain bike technology is in need of the most improvement?” Are you tired of adjusting your derailleur? Sick of bleeding your brakes? Frustrated by constant flats? What would would you change if you were in charge of developing the mountain bike of the future? Cast your vote below.
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The Trolling-resistance is not high enough yet. At least I feel pretty trolled after I lost 2500$ in less than a year to an 1.5" increase in wheelsize after I bought my first ever new bike.
That equals a price-elasticity of 1666.67$ per inch. It's the price of innovation I guess.
You're right that mid-end drivetrain and brakes are awesome. The problem though, is to try and find a bike with mid-end components and no bottom-end suspension.
I WANT a bike that's just decked out in Zee... but I haven't been able to find one that doesn't also just have a Boxxer RC or something with absolutely shit/non-existent compression adjustments.
The most expensive stuff is by no means the best selling. 90% of sales in a bike shop are recreational level bikes, hardtails under a thousand and around town style bikes. This is what the industry thrives on.
To go back to the original complaint, you can get really decent performance stuff on a budget these days. Low end drive trains are nowhere near as bad as they were a few years back. Entry level bikes are often coming with pretty rad tires. Hydroforming has come down in price and a decent aluminum frame is damned cheap.
Don't complain about how expensive the parts are if you're sticking mostly to the high end. Yes, high end is going to be more expensive, -that's the entire point of it.-
I'd like the industry to focus a bit more on standards, or rather, getting rid of frivolous ones.
But, other things, say, like king hubs, hope brakes, 9point8 posts, straitline pedals. I would rather pay the 15-40% more for such products. Not just because they are made in the first world, but also a superior item.
I'm happy to buy local when all else is roughly equivocal, but I'm not going to pay twice as much for the same product just because it wasn't made in Asia. I know the production costs for a number of quality made in the USA products and believe me when I tell you the manufacturing cost isn't twice what it is in the far east, but the retail is twice as much or even more in some cases. Like I said, I'm not against buying goods manufactured in the first world but I think the mark up is ridiculous. A lot of bikes and gear I've owned, I've got at half or less of the retail abd they're still making money of me and I'm happy to buy USA made in those cars... but full retail is just insane on some made in the USA products.
you do know that Mavic's aluminium alloy rims are made by giant in Taiwan at their aluminium alloy extrusion plant?
I figured, like DT, some European, some Asian......
To get even more off topic, what DT stuff is made in Colorado?
its a tricky one, because the "brands" don't generally share this information. I believe Mavic used to take the extrusions from TW and then roll / pin / weld and finish the rims in France. Not sure if this is still the case, or if its all TW?
I know the cheaper DT Swiss 350 hubs are made in taiwan using the same Star Ratchet internals as the 'swiss made' 240 hubs (which are forged and machined in Switzerland).
But then I wonder...are the Star Ratchet internals actually swiss made, or made in Taiwan and then shipped to Switzerland?
Leave derailleur with roadies
@WAKIdesigns That is the biggest problem. Getting people to try something really "new" instead of incrementally new.
Yes we need special frames but who cares if there is a true standard that all frame builders use.
It is the white elephant in the mtb world
Current gearboxes are too heavy and have too much drive train loss, plus don't fit on any mainstream bikes
Following would be required for this to happen:
1) Reduce weight be designing the gearbox internals directly integrated into a carbon frame, negating the need for a heavy separate gearbox casing, saving weight. This would require heavy R&D costs, so someone like Specialized or Trek needs to step up here, as possibly they could be the only companies with deep enough pockets to get it done. Note Specialized already can make rigid carbon frames with compartments / holes in them with their SWAT thing.
2) Internals have to be super light. A lot of work exists here thorough F1 / Moto GP/ HP road Moto and Car gearboxes that could be capitialized on. A Decent engineering firm like Ricardo could find a sweet spot between price and weight.
3) Drivetrain loss - I suspect a lot of improvements could be made on the existing bike gearboxes, to get the power losses down. Its all in the tolerances that can be achieved at production volume in at an acceptable cost. Drive train loss of a Porsche GT3 box will be way, way, less than a Camero, for example, allowing them to transfer more of their Engine power to the wheels. Again, its all in R&D budget to get the right tolerances, at volume, at the right price.
4) Cost - they will add a big chun of cost to the bike price, much more so than XTR, etc. I'd be happy to save cost with SLX level brakes, and non carbon wheels, and put the money behind the transmission.
So in summary, its going to take a big investment for a large manufacture to fundamentally re-think drive trains for bikes. And we'd have to be comfortable with the drive train being part of the frame. I also can't see Shimano / Shram jumpin to the idea, as it would be much harder to market, and monetize with segmented levels of transmissions, as the do now.
Ironically, today hitting CRC to replace my worn out 2y/o derailleur...
I own a Zerode, it is without doubt the best performing suspension I, or anyone who rides my bike, has ridden. However it comes at a pretty large weight penalty. Though the rolling weight is un-sprung mass, it is still a cumbersome bike when not up to speed. Is the increased performance in suspension due to the ability to run a high pivot point and receive no chain feed back worth it? Yep. But ,this bike could be soooooo much better without that weighty Alfine internal hub. It hasn't 'blown up', there's not stress running through the system, it just spins, but imagine this bike or one like it without the extra weight.
Oh yeah, Honda did it.
Unfortunately small brands like Zerode or Nicolai or whomever dont have the funds to research their own system. Even if they did it wouldn't get specced on mainsteam bikes due to Sram and Shimano wanting to sell their own derailleur setups.
Essentially what i'm saying is, Shimano make the Alfine lighter, or Sram have a crack, but until bigger companies get on board with it being a useful addition to the mtb market, it'll always be a niche.
www.pinkbike.com/u/mattwragg/blog/Roc-DAzur-2012-Cavaliere-DH-Gearbox-Bike.html
@lemonademoney The economies of scale wont come in if nobody buys the expensive ones. Nobody is going to invest millions of pounds in something that might sell. They might invest in something that has been proved to sell.
@mojo348 Light, cheap, strong. Pick two. It is as true with gearboxes as it is with any other bike parts.
My sticking point is getting to try it before buying it. I haven't seen many nicolai demos in north america lately and if I am going to spend that much on a bike, it certainly will not be a blind guess.
And then there's cost. There are a lot of people out there that don't like the prices in MTB so don't buy off the peg. Sticking with Zerode, there site right now states they have deals on frames at $3500 bucks!!!!
If you believe I'm over-hyping the cost issue, why then is "improve the pricing" the number one comment on this page?
Gearbox tech is going to have to go through what a lot of tech does: considerable improvement on design that tends to also positively affect cost.
@LemonadeMoney and @Patrick9-32 I believe bring up a great points about "economies of scale" and just as Patrick stated, we still need people to buy the expensive ones in the short term.
I think it's time mountain biking started looking outside of itself for ideas.
A carbon frame is substantially more expensive, but it will save 200, maybe 300 g over an Alu frame, now a gearbox might just add 900 g or even more, besides some extra power transmission loss. Still I do believe that with enough investment from big brands it could become the norm, besides it will bring great advantages to bikes like less unsprung weight, no more derailleur hanging from the frame, no more mis shifting and so on. Besides I really like the idea of a gearbox!
The issue for me is justifying buying a new bike / frame when I have 2 perfectly good bikes (albeit one is 10 years old designed by Rob at Zerode in his former life at Keewee)
I bet there is a little more behind the lack of development by the big players than meets the eye. For every high end bike how many mid range / budget bikes are sold... Shimano / Sram will be speced on all of these bikes. Why break a good working relationship with S / S for a few hundred / thousand units of Pinions
The change needs to be forced from the little guys - Nicolai, Yeti etc that think outside the box and aren't scared to try something new. They also need to compete on the big stage... If Rude / Graves were riding a gearbox bike and winning the big players would have to step up their game.
Thank you. I am a couch mtb activist though and waki is the leading couch activist so i am really seeking his approval
I wouldn't have a problem with a gearbox like this as long as it was sealed from the elements and mounted on the frame.
It is not that secret.
I know the traditional system leaves them open to the elements and susceptible to damage. But after running Sram's 1x for the last couple years I can say I think less about what's going on back there than I ever have. There are typically less than 5 things wrong when your bike isn't shifting correctly and youtube will guide you back in the right direction if you get really stuck.
The constant battle with tire pressure / traction / flats is never ending. Procore system on the way apparently but back ordered until March 2016 !!!!
@WAKIdesigns - Pretty much exactly why it's only ever going to be a niche.
@Caiokv - Can shift the Alfine hub without pedalling.
Pinion gearboxes (probably the most promising gearboxes currently available form what I've seen) range from 2200g/4.85lbs to 2700g/5.95 lbs, but a gearbox also negates the need for a cassette. You'll still need a shifter, chainring, rear cog, and some sort of chain tension device to allow for chain growth as the suspension compresses. Lets assume the chain tension device weighs half as much as a rear derailleur. So if your cassette weighs 350g and your derailleir is 300g, then you save 350g + 150g or 500g and add 2200-2700g for the gearbox. You can probably also save a little weight by using a smaller chain ring, but you're not entirely eliminating the rear cassette because you still need one small cog so I think it mostly evens out in that regard. That means you're looking at adding 1700g/3.75lbs to 2200g/4.85lbs to your build kit by switching to a gearbox drivetrain.
Obviously this is a very rough estimate, but I think it's safe to say you're looking at a lot more than 2 lbs unless somebody manages to design a gearbox that weighs about half as much as the Pinion gearboxes.
Looking forward though, surely some sort of enclosed gear system that is protected from the elements and easy to remove/clean/maintain is the future.
This 3D printing stuff... It doesn't do much for cycling as well as most other industries. It is fantastic for prototyping but not for production. They do use it sometimes but mostly for complicated elements like joints. That does not apply for bicycles which are very simple structures compared to let's say airplane jet engines.
I would like agearbox equipped bike myself but I am notwilling to pay so much since derailleurs are not bothering me to any bigger extent
* Gearbox for a bicycle will never see as much torque as a motorcycle or even a moped. With that in mind, how wide do those cogs really have to be? If you keep in mind that gear boxes in F1 handle far more power than Jared graves is going to put out at the pedals you may be surprised at how small they've become.
* Considering again the amount of torque a bicycle gearbox is likely to see, alternative materials can play a big part here. One that makes the most sense by far is Carbon Fibre reinforced plastic (techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20150416/414645/?n_cid=nbptec_tecrs). That's like another 5 years out at the very least, but what ceramic or metal matrix composite?
All that said, my dérailleurs still work too so I'll happily live with it a bit longer.
@dlxah : I agree with your assessment 100%!!! Everyone is forgetting that we aren't just adding the weight of the gearbox, but loosing the weight of the old junk as well. 3 to 5 pounds isn't going to bother me much to be honest.
I am a professional design engineer on electronics and automation, not mechanical engineering. I will not be so naive to make assumptions on mechanical engineering challenges...
But one thing I know for a fact is that innovation will only happen when there is a sizable market to pay for it. This has not yet been the case for bicycle gearboxes, and this is the reason why we haven't seen much innovation on this field.
It takes several design iterations and years of field testing for the gearbox to evolve to the level we've seen the traditional drivetrain evolve in the last few years.
Small/medium companies with a limited consumer base will not have enough money/funding to pay for several design iterations (development costs). Also, with a limited number of companies trying new concepts the whole idea will not evolve fast.
One major objection for the gearbox is that we would have to revise most industry standards and introduce several new ones, such as standard frame housings to install the gearbox into. This is much more complicated than different wheel sizes and so on. This is why, IMHO, the gearbox hasn't been able to get a decent market share yet.
If they fork out so many 10k$ bikes I'm pretty sure there's enough buyers for it to be profitable so I don't see why pioneering gearbox frames would be a suicidal business decision for them due to the cost since there are already a lot of buyers out there paying massive money for bikes.
On that note, my brand new sram GX derailleur just failed prematurely today after 2 rides. This shit needs to end.
What if it had 9 gears of the correct ratios and maybe electronic shift allowing you to seamlessly shift in to whatever hear you liked rather than indexing through? How about an auto transmission mode?
Mud never been an issue, the hub can collect a far bit of mud but it spins off easily enough. Never sounds out of shape or like im churning grinding sand between my teeth! The seals are good enough to not need to service more than once a year, just a Shimano bleed cup full of automatic transmission fluid in the little nipple every 6 weeks or so is enough.
Add to this gear box bikes are deadly silent! No more chain fwap!
Check out his carbon trail bike with a Pinion he built for himself in his garage.
He is looking to get it into production and was looking for funding in NZ to do it.
Gearbox bikes are not bending the chain sideways like a mech, add sand/dirt and that equals massive chain and cassette wear not seen on gearbox bikes.
I sell Zerode here in Oz. Have for over seven years now I'd guess. NEVER sold a new gearbox sprocket, LOL. We are the only place to get them. Yes it's a DH bike but still, the drive train on a gearbox bike lasts sooo long as it's running straight. We have had one Alfine fail after years without service. There's probably about twenty Zerodes in Oz. The chain tensioner spring is their weakest point and they last about a year of solid riding. But yeah. Nicolai don't run tensioners so that's an option. My Nicolai Pinion Helius has a tensioner, but it's never failed. I think belts are still not worth it, the only bennefit with them is clean trousers and lack of lubing it seems.
People are overlooking how cool shifting any time is. You need to ride a gearbox bike and get used to it, then jump on a deraileur bike, feels so primitive and agricultural then.
Gearbox cables last forever also as your not fighting the mech and chain up a casstte with them under load.
The weight penalty isn't that bad. Nicolai make the ION 20 with and without PINION, I think it's 500grams different. But the weight is central, low and not on the rear wheel(unsprung weight) so I think the benefits far outweigh the cons.
Oh and Zerodes rearwheel axle path makes close to everyone faster and more confident, so not sure what design flaws you suppose it has Waki. Every bike is a compromise, pick what suits you the best.
Gearboxes would be no harder for companies to addapt to as different wheel sizes etc. Gearboxes will happen when sales and tech gets stale. It's not because it's not needed, it's all marketing and robbery.
Safe to guess Gearboxes will be made light and less durable unfortunately. So they will remain the same as mechs, they will keep their low maintenance and reliability but will wear out quicker. Chains and sprockets will be made lighter as they're under less load and they'll wear out as quick as now too. Gearboxes will still have huge benefits though.
You may want to read this older article here:
www.pinkbike.com/news/article2245.html
Check the picture of the internals as well and compare it with the internals of a geared hub with more than three gears. A bicycle with this should definitely be cheaper and easier to maintain than anything with a hub built into the frame.
So yeah, I voted gearing technology but I think the hub in a frame is the wrong direction. Pinion got it right, but there is so much contact between the sprockets I'm afraid a grain of sand is like the proverbial spanner in the works. They also managed to make it more complex than any gear hub so damn right it is expensive. NiVinci could be an option. They use it in hubs but it makes them so chunky it doesn't really belong there anyway. I can't see how something like that Honda or PeteSpeed gearing couldn't be affordable, reliable and do just fine. It's been well over a decade, time to release it
As a side note it is worth looking at Ted James Designs Gnar 29 www.tedjamesdesign.com/portfolios/29-gnar. Its a bit of a beast but has an IGH mounted in a steel 29er. Some weirdness with double chains etc but guess that is to do with clearances.
Here's mine then, I think both the Zerodes and Nicolais look cool, lots of people buy them, some must just for looks based on what you've said. Nicolai would have to be one of the best looking aluminum tubed bikes.
Personally I buy for function rather than what my bikes look like. Never picked up a girl because of a cool looking bike, and the faster you are the better you look. Doesn't matter how fugly the bike is.
If people like Dentists buy for bragging rights, then "I can shift any time, I change my chain and sprockets every few years, I change 30ml of oil once every second year and I adjust my cable annually"sure has some kick behind it, that can't be argued.
IMO logical stuff looks the best. Zerodes look awesome.
Again with the high pivot "draw back", please support this statement with some facts that you yourself have experienced.
I dig the TedJames rig. I'd have done an old school elevated chain stay for trail compliance though.
I think we are still in the "Function" part of gearbox design... and Form does follow Function after all. Beauty will come once all the engineering is done.
www.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=155131
At least this poll has started some conversations on gearboxes. For that I am glad
Zerode? I don't care I don't ride DH but I saw one in a park once. I don't ride any good enough to care about high pivot - dentists apparently do ride like DH pros because they care and they don't like it. Cuz it looks strange
Nuvinci is nice to live with as there's no gears, just different ratios wherever you put the shifter, but they're too heavy, and not the widest range. Rohloff was good, nice firm clicks, but again too heavy. Alfine would be okay of they made it narrower and lighter, but it's also dependent on how big the hills are near you as it has a smallish range. All the "small range" ones are still close to 1x10 deraileur range though. My 18 speed Pinion is way way wider, the 12speed will be perfect for most, and the 9 good for DH and the fitter people out there.
I was reading on the Pinion www that the P1-12 has 600% and the P1-18 has 636% (compared with 382% on a 11-42 cassette). Thats a pretty massive range. Theres no way a 1x mech set up is ever going to get close.
photos.nsmb.com/files/2/7/2/8/1/millyard.jpg
Do you agree? Perhaps not. Am I worried? Not at all. This is just a friendly nudge that perhaps there's a better alternative.
You are free to do what you want, but of course all the world is free to be stupid.
Looks like im sticking with a Zee and 1x setup for a few years more.
@BDKR - sorry for being an old prick.
Agreed. The cost will reduce with time. The Pinion is about £1100 which when you consider its lifespan isnt too bad, its the initial outlay that gets you. If I was a Dentist, or Stockbroker (as those who tend to live and ride in Surrey) I would definitely buy one.
Millyard was awesome and had many pros. Not sure I like it more than my Zerode or the Lahar I had. But I like high pivots on DH bikes and mid on AM/Funduro bikes. Milyard was BB mounted from memory, not most ideal.
Tubes
The most common mechanical problem riders of all skill levels get on the trail is flats by far. Nearly every other component can fail and you can still at least coast your bike down. Some people have even found themselves on the podium of a WC race after their drivetrain had catastrophically failed. A flat tire is also one of the only mechanical failures that can happen on relatively safe, featureless terrain and still be very dangerous.
It's getting to the point that I won't ride with people who still run tubes. Running out of time on this planet.
Went back to tubes
I am a heavy +90kg might have been something to do with it
All gearbox bikes you can shift without pedaling.
All gearbox bikes have the gearbox centered in main frame and low, so although there's a weight penalty, it's not as major as what it seems when lifting the bike.
There is possibility for less unsprung weight with a gearbox bike.
A gearbox is as easy to move as a mech pretty much.
Your chain and sprockets last several times longer on a gearbox bike as the chain is running straight and not rammed into the next gear under load or twisted sideways.
Cables also last longer as they're rarely pulling something that has fiction against it.
A gearbox may have more drag than a mech in perfect conditions(a lab), but in the real world of mud, and slightly poorly set up, mechs and chain guides and worn chains and cassettes I think it'd be pretty close. There's also the point below.
Because you can shift any time and don't need to find somewhere free of pedal strikes to change gears, or a non uphill, you are more often in the better gear with a gearbox, so your using less effort, so gearbox Vs Mech the gearbox is probably way more efficient in reality. I shift in corners, rock gardens, the air, stationary, on the chair lift, wherever I damn well please, with my two gearbox bikes.
A gearbox is not really any more complex than a mech, cassette, front mech or guide.
Gearbox bikes probably work out costing about the same for most people once you tally up, mechs, cassettes, chains and shifters, hangers, that wore out quicker or broke, oh and those that have put mechs in spokes.. And possible costs uncured by wrecked rides by broken mechs.
Higher possible chain lines can be achieved with a gearbox for better designed suspension. Very small window of design opportunity with everything designed based around the similar chain output.
F@%K Shimanno and Sram, they are robbing YOU!
Gearboxes are not scary. Most distributors will carry a spare box if it's needed. You wouldn't miss any more rides than if a shop didn't have the mech you needed. But your gearbox is WAY WAY less likely to fail.
Look at DH racing, wrecked mech at EVERY race.
Low centered ballast with a gearbox, between your shins, the bike wants to work around the centralized mass, it's a good thing.
Funny thing is, don't let rholoff's gearbox fool you. A glance at pinion's will show you how simple they can be. Not complicated systems that can shrink quite a lot if the money gets behind them. I want a pinion driven bike pretty badly. Think of how much better your rear wheel path can be when you don't have to worry about chain stretch. Think of the weight you could drop by switching to the (much more than they used to be) reliable belt drives. The whole business of chains and rear mechs doesn't make sense. It is just turd polishing at this point.
The Super Gravity casings have never let me down and perform flawless for me every where.
I did have a racing Ralph blow up once which I believed to have been a qc issue. But it was also at 90psi with a tube in it, was sat at the top of our local pump track doing nothing and it just exploded.
Ghetto all the way. Ive had numerous tyre / rim combos over the last 5 years and have only had 2-3 kevlar beads blow off the rim - admittedly it was my fault as I over inflated them.
What we NEED is Boost+ dammit!
It's alright if you like taking care of your bike AND you have enough skill (or time) AND you can afford the tools/workshop.
But even if you have those, too much time is spent repairing rather than riding (plus pb doesn't help).
Even with the high end products...
Well, what's it like?
My bikes are never 100% fixed.
26.5 inch wheels
28 inch wheels
28.5 inch wheels
29.5 inch wheels
And if you really want to smooth the ride out 40 inch wheels
It's only a matter of time and the brilliance of marketing(or dumbness of the public) until all these wheel sizes are the best and fastest Wheels ever made with more advantages than winning the national lottery.
For many people this is the sad truth, as work, family and location/weather only allows 1-2 rides a week. Geeking out is the only way left to get your bike fix then.
It makes no Sense that a World Cup Racer Flats!
It makes no sense that 1X is the answer to drivetrains.
Demanding something better from an industry that we pour money into is not that big a deal.
Dropper post need work, in my time at shops, the most reliable one has been the specialized command post, I just wish they made a 150mm version. Droppers also shouldn't be more then $300, anything above that is ridiculous. They should also be able to function with 100% reliability for 2 years without a rebuild and without a cable breaking. None should use a hydraulic line (reverb), it's just a stupid idea!
We need more gov't funding!!!
A derailleur is literally bending the chain away from parallel to fit other cogs, something that is an absolute no-no in every industry except bikes. The "cheap" argument falls away when you drop $200 on a clutch der to keep engaged on rough terrain, and this system absolutely affects pedaling and braking- it is physics, and no magic link will eliminate it. And then there is that amazing noise of a slapping chain. I really have to zip-tie an old tube on my $6K bike to make it quieter? Really?
My next bike will be a Zerode, and with a planetary gear hub I will be able to shift without pedaling, in the air, whenever I want. The durability of the sealed box has been proven, the maintenance is virtually nil, and I am willing to suffer the "weight penalty" (I'm sure my World Cup results will be much slower, am I right, my fellow top tier racers? Oh wait- I ride FOR FUN!). Yes, flats suck, and everybody gets them, but those are trail-fixable. A blown up der and chain twisted around the frame is not. That is the end of your day, unless you haul a box of spares out every time you ride. I love the YT tues, amazing bike at an incredible price especially for the build, but my hatred of the traditional drivetrain is going to keep me from getting it. More $, more weight, and I am willing to gamble more smiles on the Z. If I am wrong, YT here I come!
There is this french guy who got a few top20 finishes at this years DH WCs aboard a Efiigear Nicolai (read -> 9-speed gearbox bike) that weighs in under 17kg race-ready...
Look at local race results. 99% of people are faster on Zerodes it seems. Go for it. Also gives you more confidence.
Maybe you mean for components, suspension, droppers, etc? Keep in mind that small to mid-size companies are not that profitable (or I'd be working in the industry), so yes, my Race Face Atlas bar costs $85 and I'm okay with that, even though it's "just" one aluminum tube.
Also, I don't have trouble finding affordable flats or clipless pedals in the $50-$80 range.
Finally, the capital investment to create a more efficient process is insanely expensive for a marginal gain. Works if there's volume, but not if there isn't, and a lot of what we buy is relatively niche and low volume.
We're called SixSigma professionals, call us. If we can deliver 1 & 2 hour appointment windows to the cable industry imagine what we can do for bikes...
If i could change one thing in the bike industry it would to be have some bloody standards back into it (not 6 different width rear axles, not loads of seat tube diameters) and most of all get soem decent bb standards nightmare
There's also the chance that the mech gets pulled into the wheel and then you are potentially looking at frame damage too.
A gear box would solve all of these problems and you wouldn't get chain slap which would be nice.
They got a few grams lighter, turned fully black, and it was a puncture every five mins.
Admittedly they have improved on the 5mins in the Las ten years or so..but now the tires cost more than that £100 bike.
So add cost and corruption of the industry to that.
Simply put its the weakest part of the experience, a risk.
We should be able to rely on our gear fully, bombproof.
Gimme that, for thirty quid too.
I am now running Michelin 'anti snake bite' sealant filled tubes for XC on Mavic UST rims with Michelin 'Wild Grip R' UST...... adding around 800gm to the bike, but i ain't had a flat yet (tempting providence) but man, you notice it on big climbs...
Pricing is outrageous, it just is, there's no way around it.
Parts compatibility, a few different standards is fine, but cranks/bottombrackets/headsets/hubs/axles, we don't 500 standards, we need a handful.
Brakes, brakes suck. Everyone bags on the old avids (and maybe even the new avids) the shimano's are no better, they're inconsistent as hell also. Haven't tried some of the other brands yet, but overall better lever feel and consistency needs to be a top priority, power and modulation amongst the offerings is fairly standard and decent, but leaks, bleed problems, etc. needs to be fixed.
Let the Bike Industry do the best thing they know: sell us whatever they want us to buy!!! We'll buy it anyway!!!
Cheers.
-fix flats already! it's the 21st century, we got rovers in mars, and Nino is still struggiling from the ocasional pinch flat? seriously?
-10,000 dlls bikes? c'ome oon
-make bikes silent!
Just a pair of examples: the new suspension coats suppose really a change? no, hubs have better roll and need less maintenance? no..., bottom brackets can work more than a year without maintenance? definitely NO...
The bearings and seals used in bikes are terrible, and de cost of this from good brands are really reasonable, but no... use the worst because people just change the bike when this starts with strange sounds, or when the brand uses a new and revolutionary wheel size.
I replace all the seals and bearings in my bikes and the results are amazing. A lot better function and less maintenance for so little cash.
It is the part on my bike that annoys me most.
Funny thing is that I can easily ride over 500km with it on the road and it still works perfectly. But as soon as I go off road I will have to start maintaining it.
I've done over 150 on my new GX with no problem. I think you are like I am with suspension, always looking for improvement where there isn't much room left.
Other than that, spend your money on superior shifters not the rear dérailleur. And if your gear housing is old, this is probably the problem; new housing and cable will sort many drivetrain woes
check derailleur hanger
mount full length cable housing
I think the main problem is probably indeed what Mazze said, my cable was just a bit on the short side, and it is aswell right now on my current temporary shitty Altus.
Planning to replace it soon with a XT M-8000 11 speed drivetrain as soon as I have money again (money can sometimes be an issue for a freelancer like me).
While thinking about it, I always saved money on the cables, buying the cheapest ones I could find. Do you guys think it is worth spending the extra cash on XTR cables for example?
Teflon coated cables are neat. If you have the money and want to spend it on them, go for it. You'll be fine either way though.
because too much improvement leads to too many standard (that can't be called standards anymore)
and the e-shifting needs too much attention concerning batteries
ride more!
the only manufacture i can remember who have skirted away from tubes is Empire with their cast aluminium frames (which is easily possible with carbon) I cannot comment into the structural integrity and weight of these designs but so much more can be done. Saving weight in places and strengthening areas at the same time.
The rest is just fidgeting with numbers with the bike press going along claiming that 1 degree more in head angle or 12 mm more in wheel radius is a revolution ...
$50 for a switch that controls all derailleurs, chain tension, seat post, fork and shock travel, all rebound and dampening adjustments, and tire pressure. This will be the next revolutionary technology for mountain biking. Everything in the last 10 years is simply incremental.
Imagine descending with setting 1: chain tension is adjusted, fork and shocks are set to fully open, rebound and compression are set, seat post is lowered, tire pressure is increased 3psi to avoid flats.
At the bottom of the G-out in one flick, your bike immediate transforms into a goat with setting 2: chain tension is increased, fork goes to 75% lockout, shock to 100% lockout, rebound and compression are adjusted, seat post is raised, tire pressure is slightly decrease in the rear for better traction.
Hell you could even have it GPS linked to your trail so your bike changes settings for each section of trail, this would be a game changer for racing.
,
not everyone lives in a dry place!
Then, I noticed that "fixing prices" for 2016 was not even an option?
And, the top answer is 'need drivechain improvements', but no-one offered up an example of what is wrong with today's drivechains... Disappoint!
Helmets that do a better job protecting against concussions.
Tires and rims should be better, no flats, no dents, no broken spokes.
Electronic dropper that goes down automatically and preset positions.
I'm currently running a 2002 MXCR air fork with open air/oil setup (ok so I have to top it up every couple of weeks ) it works wonderfully and I get the reassuring Squelchy sound as the oil circulates and keeps everything lubed up . The only forks near that ease of maintenance are DVO forks (ex Zocchi guys) and Magura (oh ok they are cartridge but never had any issues with their forks after running them for 5 years)
Who uses travel adjust anyway?