Results: World Cup DH Lourdes 2015 - Timed Training

Apr 10, 2015
by Pinkbike Staff  
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Member since Jul 22, 2013
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142 Comments
  • 100 8
 Cue loads of comments from folks who dont realise that timed training doesn't count for s**t.
  • 282 0
 i think bryceland got off his bike before the last bridge, walked cautiously over it, and then jumped back on
  • 53 15
 Times training tells us that fast competitive riders are always competitive *cough Gee cough cough* and that chilled riders still don't give a sh*t *cough ratboy cough cough*
  • 5 2
 timed training still ables us to compare some riders .. you can be sure than Gee pushed it a bit to make that time.. After, you could say for example that Vergier is in top form if he's "only" 4,9seconds back on gee
  • 10 1
 The difference is that most riders know when to chill and turn it on when it's race time, but gee just can't help being full tilt all the time! Come race day, the time card may be completely different!
  • 6 8
 @HutchJR and @lukachadwick Check Ratboy's facebook, looks like he was giving it a pretty proper go.
  • 18 2
 Interesting to see Gwin in the top 10, let alone 2nd. He usually spends at least 30 seconds looking at lines.
  • 8 3
 I thought it was interesting to see Gwin up there also. He's normally much further down in timed training.
  • 10 2
 Im actually also very interested in how Remy Morton,Magnus Manson and finn iles will do
  • 4 2
 always fun to see sarcasm go over someones head
  • 1 0
 @HutchJR Ah, but then you would think Ratboy was rational.

Sandbagging!!! My pick to win right there
  • 2 0
 Yes timed training doesn't count but it also tells you that Gee or whoever can make a fast and clean run on this track and possibly go faster in the seeding and final run.
  • 7 0
 It may not count for points but it is all part of the psychological game. Athertons may use it to stamp a bit of authority on the pack. I am sure some riders will be intimidated if they are struggling to put match their times. Top twenty riders probably don't care or may deliberately slow down to hide their capability.... Based on my entirely made up speculation :-)
  • 1 1
 That's nonsense as last season Ratboy was at the top of times trails last season. I'd hate for him to that feel that he's win over all last year means that he doesn't need to have the same drive. I feel like it was his drive last year that got him his wins and that he should carry on with the same attitude and not get complacent.
  • 3 0
 Complacent? The kid shattered his foot and is barely out of rehab. Careful because of it perhaps and rightfully so but complacent? Nah. Doubtful.
  • 53 1
 You are doing well so far but can we make sure that you don't put spoilers in the titles this season please Pinkbike!
  • 17 0
 yeah Sunday especially!
  • 20 0
 Also don't put the winner as the thumbnail photo please, take one from someone mid pack or something. It sucks when your looking for the Red Bull replay and the winner is staring you in the face.
  • 3 11
flag twebeast (Apr 10, 2015 at 13:53) (Below Threshold)
 Here's a tip: if you don't want to know a recent sporting event resut, don't go to online media or open facebook or twitter.

In this case just open up redbull.tv and go find the replay.
  • 6 0
 I did that last year, in the news feed running down the side of the video player it had "Congratualtions Sam Hill!"
Pretty damn annoying
  • 1 0
 Yea redbull.tv is no better, there really is no safe place
  • 1 0
 @Dan255 just use a thumbnail of claudio

And the safe place i get it on cable, one of the sports channels and have it set to record all world cups
  • 1 0
 YES! Please guys... If I can't watch it live, I watch the replay and pretend it's live. When a world cup happened I won't go on Facebook because I know some asshat friend of mine posts up the results like they were there. I know it makes for more exciting headlines, but I beg you not to give away too much.
  • 39 4
 Hey Protour... looks like the two Specialized guys are still doing well despite that flawed bike! Wink wink, wink hahahaha!
  • 4 0
 sniped.
  • 15 30
flag EuanBisset145 (Apr 10, 2015 at 10:31) (Below Threshold)
 On paper the demo isn't exactly great, hardly any anti squat for pedalling and a forward arcing axle path. Which is the worst of both worlds suspension wise. The demo has geometry on it's side and weight since it's carbon but suspension kinematics isn't on the list of strong points in my books. It's no iron horse sunday or nukeproof pulse in terms of suspension.
  • 19 4
 Your head is in 2006.
  • 18 6
 Sit down and work it out for yourself, the figures of the demo from 2011 onwards and the latest demo are a bit wacky. At 100mm travel the anti squat is at -25% on the 2015 demo, compared to a wilson at 120%, last gen v10 is 140%, sunday is 80%, session 88 40% and nukeproof scalp 100%. Then there's the axle path which normally is a compromise between bump absorption and pedalling efficiency but the demo has poor pedalling and a less than optimum axle path.
  • 7 3
 It'll ride ok geometry wise but that's only half the story. People complain about forward weight shifts on high pivot bikes but this bike has such a low virtual pivot that it would cause a rearward weight shift.
  • 1 2
 Euan. FYI. The pulse is terrible at carrying speed and pumping compared to the Old cheap budget scalp. But it is fast. But is wild with the rear end short.
  • 4 3
 Yeah it's not perfect but does the trick for the mast. I wonder how the latest pulse prototype compares to the previous bikes from nukeproof. Another thing I've noticed is the newer specialized enduro is actually not too bad suspension wise, the axle path is better than the demo and anti squat is acceptable.
  • 4 6
 @EuanBisset - which Bike company are you Design Engineer for again?

P"
  • 13 3
 My own actually, currently about to build a gearbox dh frame. Thanks for asking.
  • 11 5
 One other thing I backed up my claims with facts, so it's not like I'm making stuff up.
  • 4 1
 Euan Im sure with the budget specialized have they have thought of all this. if the bike is really so shitty specialized riders would be at the back of the pack but thats not the case now is it.
  • 5 4
 The only way to know that would be put them on other bikes and see how they perform, maybe try a session and see how they do at races...
  • 4 1
 I am sure a small company like specialized (half owned by Merida bikes) do not have a huge R&D budget or team. But a small team of higly specialized development engineers and a reasonable pipeline for development prototypes. Specialized only have 300 or so employees across all diciplines and administration etc. so are a small company. With a revenue of ~$500M, and a reasonable sponsorship program I would not imagine their profits are massive to reinvest.
Medium companies tend to design the majority of their products in house and out source specialist functions for specific projects. They tend to have small R&D budgets for specific products also.
Large companies or mass producers tend to outsource most of the lower level R&D to specific companies, world wide who specialise in the required diciplines and employee staff, principle engineers to manage projects (not as much fun as low level engineering). large companies buy smaller companies....
I have worked for all 3 sizes of company in my time as a development engineer.
small companies are the most fun...
  • 3 1
 From my experience, bikes are very relative to the rider and what they feel comfortable on dictates how hard they are willing to push
  • 2 1
 Exactly but at the same time a good suspension system will help where your confidence can't like maintaining momentum as it goes over obstacles, transferring more of the energy you put in to driving the bike forward rather than wasting it with the bike bobbing about and giving better control which will lead to faster times. Geometry is a big part but suspension is just as big, sure it's still rideable but aren't we supposed to be looking for maximum performance, not what we can just make do with.
  • 3 1
 If MTB DH had a team championship Spec & their Demo would have won it last year. Troy 2nd Gwin 4th. Not saying its a better bike than the rest but they simply couldnt have achieved those results on a bad suspension design. End of.
  • 3 1
 There are always compromises when designing bikes. High Anti-Squat bikes are good at pedaling but not so good when hitting your brakes in the bumps. I think Specialized designed the Demo to have low AS to be more active and use the shock for a pedaling platform. An active suspension for a DH bike is the way to go.

Here is a blurp about axle path from a real bike engineer (not a Pinkbike armchair one):

www.santacruzbicycles.com/en/us/news/344
  • 2 0
 @Karve Gwin got 2nd and Troy got 3rd last year in the overall.
  • 1 2
 The problem with that is it's not unbiased. Ask dave weagle and I bet he'll say axle path is important. Who's to say that gwin might not have punctured if his bike had a better axle path that was less likely to hang up on obstacles. You don't want to use the shock as a pedaling platform as it will retract from suspension performance creating what is almost a barrier to break through reducing sensitivity. As for anti squat, yes that's true but specialized have gone too far the wrong way and basically created a bike that pedals as bad if not worse than a concentric pivot bike which is far from ideal.
  • 1 0
 Troy and Gwin have no troubles pedaling on Demos. I ride with guys on new Wilsons (high AS bikes) and they bob as much as Demos when pedaling standing up. I don't think it's as much of an issue as people think it is. Geometry and cg is the most important of a DH bike imo.
  • 1 0
 Bumblebees shouldn't be able to fly. Fact!

"Drops keyboard. Walks the F*** off!"
  • 1 1
 Actually the calculations that prove that don't take everything into account and it's possible to prove that yes they can in fact fly by looking at the full picture. The demo will still be a fun bike to ride but it's not winning any prizes in the suspension design department, maybe a lot of people won't notice the blindest bit of difference but it is there.
  • 1 0
 all dh bike are designed around the same parameters. they all have their issues but are all fined tuned to minimize these issues. you are looking at the small picture here. I've seen people race and win on demos. I've seen people race and win on any other type of bike. if the bike suits the rider then it doesn't matter what the hell the bikes doing, or how it's achieving it. It will work. sam and troy helped develop the last demo 8. they both on worlds on it. Loic helped work out the new lapierre and he's doing great. those are just some examples, there a many many others. They are just bikes.
  • 1 2
 You can't respond anymore. I duplex the mike. Them's the rules fellow!
  • 1 0
 Yes you'll see top guys win on most bikes. They do have access to all sorts of data logging equipment and can take that information to tune the suspension to mask certain traits. Gwin also runs very stiff suspension so that would reduce any squat under pedalling. I'd like to hear from Specialized why they designed it in this way, to me it doesn't make sense. Don't get me wrong either, I really wanted a Demo back in 2010/11 when they changed to the newer shape Alu frame. I'm sure most owners won't be dissapointed but I was just trying to say they aren't perfect and have a strange combination of attributes in my books.
  • 1 0
 Euan... was Grinning and Gwinning running the new link today.... If so. Big change to suspension curve for a return to form. ... coincidence or luck...
  • 1 0
 Most top guys run stiiff suspension. I tried this in whis one day. I sized up fork and shock springs and it was scary how much faster I could go and had to use way more strength to control the damn thing. Just flew over everything! But I'd much rather run softer and have more fun haha
  • 1 0
 There's a balance between having forks stiff enough and too stiff. I used to run my suspension incredibly stiff and swore by it but then I realized that there's a lot of downsides to that stiffness like less grip and not absorbing chatter very well. I'm still on pretty stiff forks but at an amount that gives grip and absorbs the bumps well.
  • 1 0
 I still run stiffer suspension than most of my friends. At wc speeds the suspension and wheel dynamic is completely different. All about the milliseconds. If you can go x amount faster over all with stiffer suspension over 1 to 5 mins, it's a no brainer. Same reason for cutting treads.
  • 28 1
 Word is Sam Hill may not race this weekend with a shoulder injury. Unfortunate if this is true as this is his kind of track.
  • 7 1
 Sam will decide tomorrow whether or not he will race. Would be a great shame to see him out but that's racing I suppose

dirtmountainbike.com/news/lourdes-world-cup-2015-breaking-news-sam-hill.html#d7XqOl34Pb2vO3XC.97
  • 6 0
 It's a pity, this track seems perfect for Sam!
  • 30 3
 This is the worst news ever
  • 1 0
 What he said above!!!
  • 3 0
 damn that sucks, was looking forward to seeing what he'd do this weekend.
  • 2 0
 Dammit. First buzz-harsh was Stevie being out, now Sam might be out.....BUT, I can almost picture Sam giving it a shot anyways.
  • 2 1
 how did he injure it? at ews?
  • 3 0
 ugh. feels like it's part of the sport more and more - so many injuries, with Smith out as well...
  • 7 0
 damn injuries this year
  • 6 0
 Hill, Minnaar, Rat, Peaty, Stevie, Hannah. That's a good chunk of racing elite injured or nursing right there.
  • 3 0
 such is the nature of the game. gotta keep the body intact to win. calculated risks.
  • 1 0
 what happened to hannah? which one?
  • 1 1
 cmon sam if reedy can ride with a broken shoulder you can do it !!!! built aussie tough
  • 21 1
 Keepin' thumbs for Fearon for the 1st podium!
  • 1 0
 yeah budday!
  • 1 0
 Stoked to see him climbing into the top 10 more often.
  • 6 1
 Would be sick if he smoked them on 26" wheels Big Grin
  • 1 0
 *fingers crossed
  • 8 0
 He's on 27.5
  • 1 0
 Not for this race. He's running his Operator. No 27.5 Precept for this race. Not sure why...
  • 18 1
 MIKE JONES!!!! now i'm hot they all on me...
  • 7 0
 They used to laugh at my belly now they wanna ruuub
  • 3 0
 Now they wanna count my G's, smoke my weed and sip my bar
  • 3 0
 2 8 1, 3 3 oh, 8 0 0 fo' Hit Mike Jones up on the low cause Mike Jones about to blow
  • 13 0
 Procore riders def hav an advantage...too bad gwin ain't one if them. I hate wc-dh flats!
  • 2 0
 Aslong as they use it , last season only one rider used it the whole season.
  • 4 2
 If there ever was a "Procore track" then this is it!
  • 1 0
 what teams are using it? or at least have access to it? any team sponsored by Shcwalbe?
  • 2 0
 "Confirmed Procore teams are Lapierre, Sam Hill/CRC, Gstaadt-Scott, Ben Reid’s Dirt team, FMD Racing." From Vital
  • 12 1
 Seems like historically, Gwin has always taken timed training to dial in his lines and lever posted a fast time. Times are changing?
  • 11 1
 Either that, or he's about to Sam Hill, Danny Hart AND Nico Vouilloz the field altogether?!?
  • 7 6
 God showed him the lines this time.
  • 10 0
 I would rather Sam not race this round and be fit and healthy than risk racing and coming off and being out for the whole season
  • 4 0
 Gutted for Sam. Was really looking forward to seeing him take this track apart. Part of me hopes he still races but riding this track with an injury would be a brave decision to say the least!
  • 7 0
 Where's Neko?????
  • 5 0
 Neko and Loic laid down the fastest split times, then sandbagged the second half of the track. Im betting we see both of them on the podium this weekend.
  • 7 2
 No Sam and no Stevie.......sad hopefullly Minnaar will be able to race with that hurt finger.
  • 2 2
 maybe but he ll get no results ... except miracle
  • 1 0
 Minnaar shouldn't race - that injury can take nearly two months - crazy risking the injury for what most likely will be a painful under performing run (outside of top 5 would be under performing for Greg) and maybe just get way down in the results.
  • 1 0
 Too soon for any e-spec considering this is the first day they've ridden the track and that there's absolutely zero points on the line today. I'm just glad the season has officially kicked off!!!

Ask me how I'm feeling this time tomorrow, though. Smile
  • 2 0
 TOO MANY GOOD RIDERS IN THE MENS!! There's over 10 riders who have a good chance of taking it Sunday!!!
  • 2 1
 Two legit threats from the USA, five from the UK, three (hopefully four) from AUS, three Kiwis and a couple of S. Africans...then "the home town Frenchies" as Claudio would say. I know you folks read Frenchies in his voice, too!
  • 5 1
 TRACEY HANNAH IS GONNA TAKE THIS ONE! just look at her speed at the two splits !
  • 1 0
 Check the run two splits too, looking very quick!
  • 2 0
 whoa..! did not even see that.!

P"
  • 5 1
 Luca Shaw....first pop at a World Cup and he pokes a 45th in timed....good news to come.
  • 5 0
 Anyone know why Eliot Jackson isn't practicing?
  • 7 2
 Loris Vergier!
  • 4 0
 God I hope Sam is not out
  • 6 1
 God hopes he's not out either, I'm sure. Hopefully it's a late April Fools joke??
  • 1 1
 I'm confused by something Gee's split times are 1:08.547 and 2:10.734. That adds up to just over 3:19, but his finish time is 3:09.855. Same type of thing applies to all the riders. Can someone explain how this works?

I'm a data scientist and am going to collect all the timed data and try to write a prediction algorithm that can predict the winner on race day, I want to make sure I understand all the measures first. Thanks.
  • 2 0
 They are points within the total- they are not cumulative. IE he was 1:10 at the first split, 2:40 at the second, and 3:09 at the third split, which also happens to be the end.
  • 2 0
 Made the exact same comment as cridavies; I have to change it now, so...

I love downhill, roll on Sunday!
  • 4 1
 sam hill and stevie smith out...thats not good
  • 5 2
 GO GWIN, WIN ..GO...............!
  • 2 0
 timed training dont mean crap, but oh man I hope Gwin comes out swinging like last year.
  • 1 0
 @Euanbisset.. ok we just witnessed a trek and a commencal flat so do we assume specialized imported special ricks, lol suck it you hater!
  • 1 0
 If Arron Gwin wins I will be the first to go flip cars in downtown LA stoked off my mind
  • 1 0
 Sucks if "HILL" is out so many sick riders out due to injuries. Still gana be a he'll of a race.
  • 2 0
 Oscar Harnstrom outta nowhere!
  • 3 1
 Loris what a nice spot you got there !!! with the big guys now!
  • 2 0
 Ok it is just training. But last years' jumiors are on fire
  • 2 0
 fast times for such a rough track!
  • 3 1
 Rat boy for the win seeing as he finished last in training.
  • 1 0
 Anyone know if Mitch is still riding DH for Specialized? or is it just Gwin and Troy doing the world cups.
  • 2 1
 Looks like is Sam is out for tomorrow, shoulder injury
  • 2 0
 where's jack ilies?
  • 1 0
 he is there but not enough points coming out of Junior to get timed training runs - limited number get them
  • 3 1
 COME ON DANNY !!!!!!!!!!
  • 2 1
 Scribd is shit Please use something else
  • 2 2
 I'm sure that Loic and Mico have done that time to be well place for the race because on some rain forecast
  • 1 0
 Practice has no bearing on race, that's what qualifying is for
  • 1 1
 Optimist ?
  • 2 0
 you are right I mistake time training and qualyfication time.
  • 1 0
 Anyway, you were clear-sighted !!! Smile
  • 1 0
 Everyone knows this doesn't mean anything..
  • 1 1
 Surely there is enough miracles there to cure Sam Hill?
  • 1 0
 Howaayyyyy Danny Boyy!!
  • 1 0
 No JR women?
  • 1 0
 SAM!? where are you?
  • 1 1
 Where is Loic Bruni?
  • 1 1
 Rachael by 5 seconds!!
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