RockShox Monarch Plus RC3 Rear Shock

 @builttoride: Congratulations! This is the most relevant comment posted in a while about suspension. I wish more people could understand basic important concepts like you did.

 excuse me but who measures their sag at the wheel? not very practical

 You can just go by the ratio can't you? like say for example that ghost bike in the previous article has a 2:1 so go to about 15-20% instead of 30-40? Although I guess for the Virtual pivots with varying ratios i'm at a loss, hopefully in that case you've got frame markers. This is more of a question than statement so let me know if I'm on the right track.

 huh???

20% of something is 20%

 Most of serious bike/frame manufacturers provide SAG charts measured at the shock. Single pivots don't need any special charts obviously as they are roughly the only where 20% on wheel is 20% on shock.

 that would be true only with the linear leverage rate in any suspension design

i was just joking about the Smells multiplying the percentage by leverage ratio

You're not on the right track there Smells

 sag refers to the stroke of the shock; if you have a 3inch stroke and you sag aprox 1inch that means you are running 30% sag. So unless you are running an improper stoke shock for your bike then sag guide should be 100% accurate.

 33% cough cough

 say you have a 100mm bike with a progressive leverage ratio. running 30% sag at the shock, would not mean running 30mm of rear travel. The actual value would depend on how progressive the leverage ratio is.

Lets say for sake of argument the leverage ratio of a 100mm travel bike is overall 2:1, and has a perfectly straight line gradient on a graph starting at 3:1 and finishing at 1:1 (at bottom out).

So in this case, the first 1mm of shock compression results in almost 3mm of wheel travel. The last 1mm of shock compression results in about 1mm of travel. (would actually be a touch over 1mm due to leverage ratio if you want to be picky).

say you have a 100mm bike with a progressive leverage ratio. running 30% sag at the shock, would not mean running 30mm of rear travel. The actual value would depend on how progressive the leverage ratio is.

Lets say for sake of argument the leverage ratio of a 100mm travel bike is overall 2:1, and has a perfectly straight line gradient on a graph starting at 3:1 and finishing at 1:1 (at bottom out).

So in this case, the first 1mm of shock compression results in almost 3mm of wheel travel. The last 1mm of shock compression results in about 1mm of travel. (would actually be a touch over 1mm due to leverage ratio if you want to be picky).

so 25% sag at the shock (12.5mm when measured on the shock due to 2:1 overall leverage ratio)...on this bike will represent

(12.5mmx 2.75)(leverage ratio at 12.5% sag - average leverage ratio for first 25% of shock sag))

= 34.375mm of wheel travel...or 34.375% wheel sag.

Now this is obviously an exagerated case, as not many bikes are that progressive, but you get the idea. Wheel sag is what matters.

 tl;dr

 @builttoride: Amen. Good stuff!

 there are two ways you can measure sag on a bike: on the shock or some bikes have scales on the seatstay

when the manufacturer recomends 30% of sag, that means 30% measured at the shock (that's for bikes without the seatstay scale - you wouldn't need the sag indicator in that case)

or do you think they expect us to through leverage curves and formulas to calculate it correctly at the wheel?

that's why they've incorporated sag meter onto their shock, o'righty?

 Offs... that's why I said a wise manufacturer provides a chart with SAG for their frames... so we don't calculate everything. For instance if Intense says 20% then you set it to 20%, what corresponds to let's say 25% of the wheel travel, which would be 25% on every single pivot bikes' shock...

 yeah this is why most dh bikes that have a progressive ratio sag at 40% while a more linear one might be 30%

 The Vivid air is an awesome shock though. Loving mine.

 same here. the vivd are has defiantly proved its self. i love it.

 I got the Fox DHX 5.0: really good except for the pro-pedal that doesn't do much when you climb but makes a bit difference in Super-D course.
Looking forward to the Monarch plus if it can provide a good pro-pedal for climbing

 It says that the pricing is To Be Announced - not available yet.

 the blue lever, lockout, traction, and open mode.

 pro-pedal = low speed compression

 is there any lockout/propedal on the vivd air? cuz i'm using a freeride bike for am so I want a dh shock that wont just squish on climbs

 i would assume so. low speed compression is the basic adjustment and comes on all the low budget shocks/forks

 the vivid air is just like the coil when it comes to adjustments, no lock out.

 wut kind of problem have you been having with your Monarch ?
im intrested in trying one on my rocky mnt slayer ss

 first of all, there is a serious design fault with the valve placement, it rotates around to be more "convenient" but it snaps or gets caught etc (lasts a couple of months at the most). Secondly it leaks air like there is no tomorrow, i have had the valve replaced twice, seals changed and it still manages to fail when i need it most. I think rockshox have had many complaints about this design, which is why they have changed the design, this looks much butter but tbh, if you want a sturds air shock, go for a fox or a marzocchi because they are tough as nails.

 okay thanks for your imput I.ve got a 5.0 coil but i want something lighter

 get a dhx air i think

 ya but their over 100 grams lighter than the dhx air, if this thing proves itself, i think ill replace it for mine.

 3 I've got the top end monarch at the mo on my AM bike, I think an upgrade is in order!

 so this is basically a working version of a roco air?

 wonder if this will overheat badly? :/

since it appears not to feature the hotrod system?

 working version of the roco? since when rockshox work and zocchi dont?! sorry but the last 4 RS products that i have were/are shit...after the 2010 models zocchi is back on my wish list in front of RS...

 well the rocos i have used when riding other peoples bike felt to be honest worse than my suntour shock on my xc bike and i prefer zocchi forks a lot more to rid eon as they feel to much more plush and ramp up a lot better where as boxxers i think feel sluggish and grindey, however rock shox rear shoxs feel a lot more plush on the trail the adjustment also works far better and me2minow you right i may not know everything about rear shock but the roco airs underperform on any trail i have ever tryed one on but as the standard monarch shock is a lot better riding i would choose rockshox 100% of the time and your comment about it being better than a dhx can just go strait out of the window as the dhx performs a lot better than any shock i have ever tryed bar the cane creek double barrel

 well..one thing is for sure..in the whole world u are the first one that say any good about the monarchs...because everyoneelse just say shit about this shock..i guess i cant argue with u on this one cuz ive never used a monarch

 i thnik they work really well sure they dont have as much big bump resistance compared to the dhx but its still a far better shock than the roco

 i did have the 3 the best feel is the dhx 5 air but the rocco air is all around better thats only my opignion ,but i would like to try this 1 to see how it feels

 of course it has less bottom out resistance
im curious though, which shocks have you ridden? because my WC air has been working like a gem consistently for the past 2 years. its not linear (obviously), but it has a much more controlled stroke than the dhx, whose midstroke is absolute shit. and comparing either of these shocks to an rp23 or monarch is totally off base (see my first sentence).
i dont see how you can make such blunt statements like "except this works".

 It all depends who has set the shock up. I've ridden people full on DH rigs with boxxers and a DHX 5.0 coil that felt worse down the tracks than my 130/5 inch xc bike. The marzocchi Air shocks are fantastic bits of kit, and severly underrated. They're just hard as nails and if you get them dead on you almost wouldn't be able to tell the difference between one and a basic coil shock (with a bit of silicone spray of course ) a DHX I had felt lumpy as hell, and having just been properly serviced decided to die. I rode it down XC trails, and I know three other people that had problems keeping theirs up and running full stop which is a bit of a disappointment. I've got to say, I currently love my standard monarch, I've had it for a year and a bit and haven't been nice, but its still running dead on perfect. If this is going to have a far nicer feel to it, and more control over the terrain I can set it up for then I can't see why people can knock it.

 i did have the rocco air tst and now i got the wc and ollyj i think your right on what your saying on the feeleing of the shocks i ride freeride and the rocco is so underrated ,butim not saying the new rock shox wont be good id like to try it to fee the feeling of it

 woowww its a rockshox DHX5 air

 oops, meant to + prop you! D: surely the vivid air is the rockshox DHX 5 air

 yeh i guess, this is a baby DHX5 air

 It says that the pricing is To Be Announced - not available yet.

 The RRP is on the Fischers site