Santa Cruz Team Replica Carbon V10 - Eurobike 2010

 ^^^^ this guy knows his shit, also what worries me is if you spend thousands of dollars on a carbon bike, and a small rock or pebble carries from the front tire and puts a nice nick in the downtube or something. jesus

 Most high end frames only have a 2 year warranty even on aluminum ones that cost more than 3000

 One thing to keep in mind is that a lot of riders won't keep a DH frame for more than two season, even one as expensive and incredible as this. I think I'd keep it forever, but there are lots of people who will be on something else come the next season. DH bikes get around!

 A small detail here: vast majority of companies gives you 2 years warranty and then you can go huck yourself, pay a full retail price for a completely new one. SC gives you a crash replacement program which WORKS. SC is also very generous to warranty claims. Haven't got that feeling when speaking to dealers of other companies before I bought my Nomad Well SC bought me with that so I bought them

 the 2 year warranty covers manufacturing defects, the lifetime crash replacement warranty gives you a discount on spare parts if you manage to snap it. Santa Cruz do this to show they are confident in the carbon technology

 Every bike i have ever owned has had a crash replacement, hell I just got a free replacement and my bike was off warranty for a year!

 they've done this crash replacement program for all their frames since a long time. When you buy the bike or a frame they say on the warranty card or on one of plenty of product broshures and owners manuals (can't remember): they did everything they could so it serves you as long as possible, and they wish you keep it forever as far as I rode few of their bikes (including mine), the geometry is so dialed and tech details are so well solved that I just don't want ot get rid of it. It's hard even between their own frames! I wanted to change my Nomad for Blur LT2 and I just can't do it, I love this bike!

 hardtail freerider, I hae been riding a carbon xc bike for 2 years now and had tons of rocks kick off the tire into the downtube and bottom bracket and all they do it put a nick in the clear coat. I have crashed the bike hard into logs, done 4-5 foot drops on it and it is fine did I mention it is an XC frame. I also have a V10 and nomad but the carbon one has been through a lot and I have no concerns with it.

I used to ride with guys on old school trek oclv hardtails from the 90's which had holes in the bottom bracket area and they still rode them hard for years.

 You forgot titanium!
But I don't get why there is so much commotion about the carbon v10 and not about the gt fury carbon?

 As far as I'm aware, Ti is heavier than aluminium - It just has a massive strength to weight ratio in comparison? Correct me if I'm wrong...

 You are correct that Ti is heavier than Al, but much much stronger, so you can use make small skinny tubes (like steel frames) with Ti that are lighter than the oversized tubes you need for Aluminium.

 The aluminum frame is gone because this carbon model is lighter, stronger, and close to the same price. Makes sense to me.

 you are absolutely right.....

 well if price tag for alu version was (as far as I can remember) 2700$ and carbon is 2850$ then it is pretty stupid to keep both for sale isn't it? Especially having an alu Driver 8. People could figure it out themselves...

 Or they possibly changed their minds?

 Or they obviously wanted to sell the rest of their aluminum bikes. Especially seeing as the have about a nine month lead time from overseas I doubt they just "changed their minds" ...they are not dumb

 yes this is what happened probably, I see no problem with that! But it's pretty stupid when people blame others for doing such thing. As if S-Cruz should throw all the stock to the garbage just so that some forum geek feels not cheated... not cheated by what. Get some job try to start your own company, see what it takes to have one, get the proper understanding of what it means to pay the bills. Then start arguments that SC are money-oriented basterds. FFS - bloody wee forum beigists! political correction from teenage years: get some real life problems, beigism at its best...

 Waki what are you talking about? Throw frames away? Get real life problems? wtf... Just like any thing else in the world when the new model comes out the old one is sold at a discounted price. Santa Cruz obviously wanted to get the full MSRP for the alu v-10 for as long as they could. I say smart move on their part, others say they got ripped off

 A crap i got into this again... it was nothing against you, i tried to agree, writing down stuff then my boss showed up and I haven't finished. You are right as hell! I wanted to write something about rffr's attitude with him calling people suckers etc...

 Perhaps because someone wants to fine tune his/hers sag by buying another spring, and a wrong Ti one would pretty much a waste. A the same time it's pretty strange to buy a complete bike without a shock spring. Fox does not provide own Ti springs with their shocks as far as I am concerned, so I guess it gets a bit messy for SC to make additional orders at third party. But I might be wrong.

 This is a team replica bike, for sale to the public. Some of the parts (like the wheels) have been downgraded to make it more accessible to the public. Also, spring rates are dependent on rider weight, so it's probably one of the first things to be swapped out... kind of the same reason why bikes don't come with pedals - at least high end ones anyway.

 The real truth is that there is almost no profit margin on Ti coils. Even with OE pricing they still will not be able to source a good ti spring for under $200usd. In comparison the OE pricing for a steel spring is under $10usd, yes under $10! At the end of the day it all about the profit margins and if the numbers dont make sense they wont do it

 The downtube is incredibly thick, much thicker than the aluminum tube used on the previous version V10. As opposed to going with large diameter thin tubes that may possibly dent/crack, Santa Cruz has used smaller diameter thicker tubes to ward of impact damage. The opposite route from some other companies, but after hearing their explanation it certainly makes sense.

 The longer stroke shock is used on this V10.

 33-34 lbs

 Looks like the team riders are using the stronger link from the Driver 8. I wonder if they had problems, or just being extra careful.

 Right now.

 Ordered. Medium, Matte Black, Vivid. So stoked.

 I'm not sure what you mean- "...carbon fiber instead of lighter more efficient carbon composites"
Carbon fiber is what makes up a carbon composite... The fiber is either a continuous, long, or chopped, and is infused with a polymer of some type, usually an epoxy.

I know they do make layups for certain applications that are designed to dissipate energy as it fails, or even specifying the failure location so that it isn't catastrophic. Is that what you meant?

Light-weighting from CFRP comes from two things though. carbon and epoxy are both significantly lighter than Al or Steel. 2- if your part doesn't need to be strong in a certain location or direction, you can use the material more efficiently. I'm fairly certain this practice is applied to F1. They throw composites everywhere else in the automotive industry to reduce part weight and to reduce part count by combining parts. If you can do the same thing in F1, why wouldn't you?

 rffr shows off his carbon knowledgabilty again c'mon man! this si the CF use in bicycle at its finest!

 Remedy, you do realize that the majority of matter in this world is based on carbon? IE carbon composites can relate to something not even close to carbon fiber.

I think you mis understood me about the f1 comment. All I said was that it is NOT used for strength... it is used specifically for impact absorbsion.

I don't quite understand how your comment has anything to do with what I said. I didn't put down carbon, nor did I say carbon fiber was not a carbon composite. I said... different carbon composites outside of carbon fiber. (Remember again, carbon makes up the majority of the matter in the world, just like plasma makes up the majority of space).

Bikes would not use carbon for the same reason f1 cars would so I don't quite get where your going with that. Bike companies aren't using carbon for safety/impact resistence, they are using it for sheer strength and weight savings.

Like mentioned... if you have any questions feel free to research it or watch the carbon themed show on history or discovery channel.

btw Idk why your arguing/debating either when my comment was specifically made NOT to be debatable. It was a sheer comment.

 Yep, most things do have some form of carbon in them. In fact, purely by definition, you could call my foot a carbon composite in that it's made up of more than two types of material, and one of them is carbon. Heck, even the epoxy in the V10 is made up of carbon. But if I have a glass-fiber/epoxy mix, I'm not going to call it a carbon composite... this just simply isn't done. A carbon composite either has a PAN or pitch based carbon fiber, in some type of resin matrix. There is also a C-C composite, where even the matrix material is carbon, for high temperature applications.

I agree, engineers probably aren't designing bikes to protect the rider in the event of a crash. Designers turn to carbon composites because you make a part of equivalent stiffness and/or equivalent strength at less than half the weight. Impact resistance can also be considered, but if that was your only goal, there are certainly cheaper avenues to explore.

I think I was just annoyed by the comment is all. Don't get me wrong, if I replied to every comment that annoyed me, well I wouldn't have time to ride. I just felt I could contribute as I do know a little about the topic.

 I'm very happy that I am not the only one writing essays here. Let's show kids that this is the appropriate discussion, not just "siiiiick!". I like how deep you guys go into carbon thing, if you add my philosophical deliberations we could create some science here! who knows maybe in one year we will be posting reference list under our comments!

Language can be improved as well: "I believe that Specialized's arduous attempts to lower the standover in their recent bicycle line appear to me as nothing more than a tasteless nonsense!" "Me and my dear friend Montgomery ambled to this fine location in the woods of southern New Hampshire finding our selves in marvelous singletrack, a day I shall never forget indeed!"

 They say it's 2 lbs (906g) less than the existing V.10 3.

 around 16.5kg I'm pretty sure

 my DH bike if full of bumb on the down tube, i'm pretty sure if i call devinci they will ask me to go f'/% myself. 600$ for a brand new frame if you explode it is quite better then 3000$ ?

 nice analogy... hockey stick to bike frame...hmmm

 hes right though, a hockey stick undergoes alot of stress. and someone who is going to buy a v10 is going to push it to its limits. i dunno i guess we will see in a few years how this bike is

 Hockey sticks are designed to flex by the thickness of the carbon fibers placed at the flex point. That's why it flexes in the same point every time. Ever notice how the carbon blade of your hockey stick doesn't deflect?

 Your hockey stick was designed to flex, thats why it flexes, not becuase it is made of carbon fiber. Carbon fiber is a very versatile material and can be engineered to do exactly what you want with it. It can be made very stiff or flexy depending on the need. Cannondale have bikes where the chainstays are carbon and designed to act as the pivot for the suspension by bending! While at the same time they make carbon cranks that are ultra stiff to get the power from your legs into the drive train. It all depends on how the engineers design the product.

Its pretty obvious that SC did alot of testing, they have the best riders in the world riding their bikes, harder than anyone here can. They can clearly take the abbuse they were designed for. Just because your more comfortable with the old, doesnt mean that the new is not better. That is how technology goes, and has gone for centuries. Humans are just hesitant to change. I would easily put my faith in the bike to hold up. Its like others have said, carbon fiber is used in the automotive industry, our bikes dont go 200 km/h, cars do well over that. If its strong enough for them, then its more then strong enough for us. Look at rally cars if you really need convincing.

Anyways this has been a long enough rant, it just seems that anything new in the bike industry is met with the same cynicism on this site no matter what, and its getting old. Embrace the new and exciting changes, they are what has been progressing our sport, and will continue to do so.

 Well stated

 I think the new Decline mag review has it at around 34lb/15.4kg.

 Awesome but I think something that light would be uncontrollable by most people (in dh)...