A More Capable Tallboy
The Santa Cruz Tallboy debuted in 2009 and immediately began winning over 29er haters. Here, for once, was a big-wheeled bike that didn’t feel like it’d been slipped a bottle of horse tranquilizers. It was nimble. It was capable. It was, against all odds, fun. The Tallboy hasn’t changed much since. Sure, Santa Cruz went back to the drawing board in 2013 and made the bike a bit more efficient, stiffer and lighter, but they never fooled with the fundamentals…Not until now.
As far ahead of the curve as the Tallboy was, it was starting to get a bit long in the tooth when compared alongside the latest crop of longer, slacker, more aggressive 29er trail bikes. This new model raises the bar with entirely new geometry and the ability to wear both 29" and 27.5+ wheels.
Tallboy Details• Intended use: cross-country and trail riding
• Rear wheel travel: 110mm
• Fork travel: 120mm
• Wheelsize(s): 29-inch or 27.5+
• Carbon front and rear triangles
• Clearance for up to 27.5 x 3.25'' tires
• Internal dropper post routing
• 73mm threaded bottom bracket
• Boost (12x148mm) hub spacing
• Sizes: S / M / L / XL / XXL
• Weight as shown: 26.74 pounds
• MSRP: $9,799- $6,499 USD
•
www.santacruzbicycles.com The Tallboy Gets Longer, Lower and SlackerThe Tallboy was already famous for being a capable trail bike in cross-country clothing. This new version steps it up significantly in that regard. Santa Cruz lopped 2.2 degrees off the head tube angle to improve stability and steepened the seat tube angle half a degree with an eye towards improving your climbing position aboard the bike. Next, they grew the top tube 40 to 50 millimeters (depending on the size of the frame) and then trimmed 11 millimeters off the chainstays (which now measure 432 millimeters/17 inches). Finally, they sliced 30 millimeters from the top of the seat tube, to help improve maneuverability. The end result? A next-generation Tallboy that the company claims is more stable and centered when under pressure, yet is still decidedly snappy and agile in tight conditions.
Supple Suspension. Your Choice of Wheelsize.In addition to giving the Tallboy a geometry update, Santa Cruz also tweaked the bike's rear suspension. The Tallboy bounces along on 110 millimeters of Santa Cruz's latest-generation Virtual Pivot Point rear suspension. This iteration of VPP (which is also spec'd on the most recent Nomad and Bronson re-boots) features a higher beginning leverage rate and a flatter suspension curve. The goal here is to give the new Santa Cruz models better small-bump compliance and a more consistent feel throughout the travel. Santa Cruz pairs the tweak in kinematics with a more progressive shock tune, so you don't find yourself blowing through the travel at the worst possible moments.
The Tallboy also sports a flip chip on the rear shock link (a la the new Hightower model) that enables you to run the bike with either 29" or 27.5+ wheels and tires, yet maintain nearly identical geometry in both configurations. It's a fairly straight-forward proposition: Set the chip in Low mode and run the bike as a 29er with a 120-millimeter fork or flip the chip into High mode and outfit the frame with a 130-millimeter travel 27+ fork and 27+ wheels. Making the swap isn't rocket science. Deciding which wheel size to go with is, frankly, the bigger head scratcher. The 29" tires offer a snappier feel, the 27+ tires offer crazy-good flotation and grip. Choices, choices...
Component Spec Gets RowdierThe Tallboy chassis has been re-made with an eye towards making it more capable and the same ethic extends to the bike’s new component kits. To wit, the Fox 32 and pinner XC treads that came stock on Tallboys of the past have been replaced by stouter forks (Fox 34) and meatier, grippier tires. The 29er model, for instance, is spearheaded by a 2.3-inch Maxxis Minion DHF 2.3 while the 27.5+ version gets Maxxis Rekon 2.8s. Rims, no surprise, are wider as well. The stock build kit includes Easton ARC 24 wheelsets. Santa Cruz also offers an Enve wheel upgrade for the 29ers—a set of M60 HVs will add another $2,000 to the sticker price. Finally, the build kits now include dropper posts.
As of press time, Santa Cruz is offering the Tallboy in three guises—two 29er versions (the XX1 and X01 kits) and one 27.5+ model (X01 kit). As you read this, bikes are already in the pipeline and will be available to the public within a week. Will Santa Cruz eventually offer the Tallboy as a frame-only option? Yup. They’ll also roll out more affordable build kits, though the release date for the frame and less-expensive configurations is still up in the air at this point.
You might be wondering whether Santa Cruz will offer separate fork and wheelset kits for people who want to also pick up the parts necessary to convert the Tallboy from 29er to plus-size bike (or vice versa). Nope. You’ll need to pick up the alternate wheelset on your own. You don’t necessarily need to buy a whole new fork—the 130mm travel 27+ fork will work with a 29er wheelset. Alternately, you can swap out the fork’s air shaft.
What About the Juliana Joplin?With all this talk about the new Tallboy, you might be wondering if Santa Cruz is fielding a corresponding model for women riders? They are. The Juliana Joplin gets all the same tweaks at the Tallboy. Indeed, we’re talking about identical frames, drivetrain, brakes and wheel kits. Joplin pricing, no surprise, is also identical to that of the Tallboy. The difference between the Tallboy and the Joplin (aside, of course, from frame color) is that the Joplin is equipped with a lighter rear-shock tune that's better suited to female riders who, at any given height, generally weigh less than men. The Joplin models also roll out with female-friendly saddles and some size-proportional parts spec, including size-specific Reverb dropper posts.
First ImpressionsThe new Tallboy just showed up on my doorstep last week, so I won’t pretend to give you a review here. These are just my initial impressions after a handful of rides. Take `em with a pound of salt. Disclaimer aside, the new Tallboy has a more centered and planted feel than its predecessor. The "old" bike was never what I'd have called nervous or twitchy, but on steep descents, the shift in geometry comes across as a welcome change. The increase in standover height is also a plus when you’re shifting the bike beneath you.
The flipside to slackening the head angle and growing the front center—and there’s always a flipside to every design choice—is that the wheelbase has grown a bit as well. On supremely tight trails, I miss the old Tallboy’s wickedly-sharp handling. If forced to pick between the two iterations, however, I’d go with the new Tallboy in a heartbeat. It’s still a lot of fun on twisty sections and the gains in stability and confidence far outweigh the cost of adding almost two inches to the wheelbase.
That’s all I’ve got for now. I’d love to tell you what I thought of how the new Tallboy rides when shod with its 27.5+ wheels, but since this thing just showed up, I’ve still got a lot of playing to do with the 29er set up before I even slap the plus-size hoops on there.
How's it climb? How does it compare to the Ripley LS or Evil Following or Pivot Mach 429 Trail? It's way too early to say. Stay tuned for a full review later this year.
Visit the high-res gallery for more images from this article.
I think american brands are currently way too conservative. It's unfortunate for me cause I like them, and if the reach becomes slowly longer on some frames, the seat angles (the real once, ones you pull out your dropper post, not the one in the nice geo chart) are back to what they were on my Rocky Mountain Slayer of 7 years ago!On long legged bike really, make the seat angle steep and the reach long, we only seat on the bike when going uphill!
I did realize that the Tallboy is an xxl, but this is just a name. If they'd make a Hightower with a size called ghtg with 500mm reach I could be very interested. Although I'm not decided what to think of the integrated headset
BTW - someone mentioned elsewhere that the Fox 34 can be converted from 120 to 130 or 140 mm, just like the Pike, with a quick switch of the airspring shaft. I just did that to my Pike on my Process, and it turns things up a notch. So if you're looking at the Hightower for geometry and confident descending, rather than ability to absorb huge hits, perhaps that's of interest to you. I'm always amazed at how the short travel in the rear of my Process seems to be plenty for my riding - but I don't take huge drops/hucks to flat.
@Vanguard - for sure, they're all over that low standover, which is a great fit for my apelike build.
www.pinkbike.com/news/Intense-Carbine-29-Review-2013.html. Spider 29c is just a shorter travel version. Like the SC Hightower and Tallboy.
Yes, it is expensive to R&D a product. But a product like this, where it is just a "refresh" or "tweak" of a previous model, it is probably not a TON of R&D. I dont know which carbon frame manufacturing company in Taiwan/China they use to manufacture the frames, but I will bet the same company makes frames for other top brands as well that retail similar designs for less.
I believe a good part of that price tag for SC bikes is for the lettering on the downtube.....
But I am OK with all of that.
Don't get me wrong I have no objection to bikes in the $6000 and up price range, and I know people will buy them. Heck you can pay $100k for a car or $10k, its good for the market to have a diverse selection. Same thing for bike industry. SC chooses to position themselves close to the top, they can do that. This targets the buyers that must have the "best of the best" (real or perceived), the buyers that refresh their bike every 1 or 2 years. Dont be mad if that's not you, because you can pick up these peoples used bikes second hand!
Side Note: who would want to have a $7000 piece of bike anyway? I would be so damn nervous taking it anywhere. Dont scratch it! Careful on the shuttle! Ride slower through rock gardens...etc. Every last nick/dent/scratch/etc devalues it another $400. What stress!!!
If you think the prices on new SC bikes are insane, then click over the the PinkBike Classifieds and find a new bike. There are a ton of great deals on there.
Externalities of a final price of a product does not end with material purchase, formation, welding and man hours. What is your salary? How much do you earn per hour, if you are employed how much overheads does your employer pay for you. Taxes, insurances, retirement money. How long do you work? Would you work 12h 6 days a week at whatever you are doing? Then owning a factory, paying electricity bills, keeping it safe so it doesn't collapse or burn down, sorting and disposing garbage with care for the environment, according to rules. It all costs. But in Asia it is easy to cut those costs, after all those people should be happy they have any job right? We are doing them a favor so that their kids don't become whores for western tourists or starving farmers because instead of vegetables to eat, they have to grow cotton for "I'm with stupid" T-shirt.
So my issue is not to produce stuff localy and be leftist, green hippies, but why don't we pay themwhat they deserve and stop whining about the price all the fkng time. Mountain biking should be exclusive, because nobody really needs it. And if you think it connects you with nature, then go out to real fricking nature and get lost in it. You will probably die.
So let's appreciate what we have and if a fair price for aluminium bike with SLX level componentry is 15k$ then pay it. Withfair price I mean that each person involved injt's production gets decent wage, working conditions and social security, then facilities are run as they should. Nobody whines about how expensive flying planes or racing sports cars is. You just don't do it if you don't have money and making it accessible won't make anyone happier.
The final build weight is pretty good at 31 pounds with pedals.
Agrresive 29ers are finding their way into a nice little corner of the market. I have found a lot of the comments about the capability of these bikes mostly comes from riders who really haven't had much time on one... They'll come around eventually
Don't get me wrong, I'm not picking sides. YT is cheaper because of direct sales and cheaper / lower quality frames, but SC has higher quality frames and includes extra service from your lbs.
Also lifetime warranty means product life and not human life or eternity. If you break your SC after 5 years of riding, they'll most probably say that it is normal for a frame to break after 5 years of heavy abuse, and the damage was caused by normal wear from riding and was not a wrongly produced frame that accidentally slipped through the Quality Control. Not sure about SC specifically, but this is how warranty normally works.
@mikeSC : good point, that might indeed make a difference in how seriously they take your warranty. I had to deal with them directly, so worst case scenario for them is that they lose me as a client. But if a bike shop who sells dozens of bikes per month from that same brand stops dealing them because of bad warranty handling, it will have much bigger impact on them. Thereby it makes sense that good bike shops might be treated better.
Yes I indeed think it is annoying that every single bike their prices get compared to direct sales companies over here in the comment section. But on the same time the world is changing and no one can stop that. If the demand for direct sales is growing, it is smart to jump on that. Fighting a changing world won't help, you'll just become that grumpy old CD store owner going bankrupt while you could have embraced the changing times and see it as an opening door to great success and jumped onto it and become a billionaire by being one of the first to start something like iTunes or Spotify.
Not that I think local bike shops will ever end, there will always be people who want/need the extra service and advise. But I also think hating on direct sales companies makes you one of those grumpy cd store owners that went bankrupted a decade ago. Then again the guys commenting "YT is cheaper" are even more annoying.
Yes there are differences and we are aware about them. This is like arguing about which is your favorite color, it doesn't make sense.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIjQxEOgqIo
Also the jackal, highball, and chameleon come in aluminum.
I'm sure it also depends on the tyre. A very thin walled 3.0 tyre will feel less vague than a beefier 2.8 tyre. Guessing a beefier 2.8 tyre would feel closer to a 2.5 single ply enduro tyre and be much better for me personally.
I have to say that my further experience was good on the plus tyres, I liked how they felt the rest of the time. But my favourite part of riding is cornering very fast and drifting (kind of like trying to ride like Phil Atwill, only with nowhere near as much skills as he has). And that was exactly where the plus bikes I've ridden so far were less joyful than my 2.5 Exo Minion DHF.
this bike even if i wanted a 29er isnt priced as marketing to me. No thanks bike industry, i'll stick to my 2015 27.5 slash
www.pinkbike.com/news/porter-talks-geometron-29-prototype-2015.html
In terms of budget monster truck, It would be hard to rule out a 160mm Yari with Avvy open-bath damper on a 6" travel rig of any variety (though bonus points for progressive enough designs to run coiled).
Even a talent-less git like me can also appreciate 2.5/2.4" Minions on 30mm rims, therefore I'm assuming somebody will make a bike ready to play that game, but anything north of 140mm travel should be adequate considering that it needs to be an all-around bike, but a 150-160mm travel fork is non-optional for me anymore.
I used a DBA Monarch with a medium Hightower in the "high" setting, which is recommended. I just took a minute to measure both the medium and XL sizes to be sure the seat tube/tire clearance was equal, and it was (approx 3"). I don't care about the rub mark itself, but if it happened on the first ride over a reasonable hit, then I'm pretty sure it would be a common occurrence and eventually destroy the frame, which would not be covered under warranty. I was definitely disheartened to discover it didn't work, because the bike was rad with the long shock and set up with a 160mm fork would of made for an awesome monster truck.
I agree that Santa Cruz is just hitting all the obvious sales niches, but doing so with really dialed bikes is hard. They've succeeded, I just wish the market wasn't such that the price of entry is a bit astronomical.
Good point about SC hitting the current niches, BUT stressing top quality. Nothing is better IMO. I just received my Tallboy 3 in 29" XX1 trim today. Looking forward to getting it together and giving it a go!
You might want to drop Tracy Moseley and Remy Absalon a message and tell them they won the EWS and Megavalanche respectively on "over wheel'd" bikes
I'm sure they'd be delighted to hear the thoughts of a keyboard expert.
FYI Remy rides a 27.5 in the EWS
You do realise they will choose the best bike for the conditions
29ers have their place
What's your racing experience?
Going nowhere conversation. You're both correct to some extent.
He doesn't need to be a world champ of have endless racing experience to gave a valid opinion.
If I need tips on crashing I'll give you a shout...
In fact ill summarise for you as Im guessing you wont read it as you didnt before:
-Bike is too expensive
-Wheels are too big
(at this point there is somewhat of a digression)
-Wheel size is not only determinant of how fast you are
-Rider is more important
-Sponsored riders represent product they are paid to represet
@SlowerThanILook insists on personal experience, and somewhat ironically gets personal in his retorts
@poah expresses themselves in a very short manner which has probably extended the conversation
as have i.
extended that is.
-Bike is too expensive - I agree
-Wheels are too big - REALLY REALLY GETTING OLD.
(at this point there is somewhat of a digression)
-Wheel size is not only determinant of how fast you are - DUH
-Rider is more important - DOUBLE DUH but when your fighting for seconds you want the best you can get.
-Sponsored riders represent product they are paid to represet - Once more DUH, but they are going to jump on the best ride they can possible get within there sponsorship. The pro riders are all on board for the bigger wheel sizes, its the the 26" forever crowd that won't give up. 26" will still have it's place (Freeride,DJ, dual, 4X etc), all these butt hurt 26" guys need to let it go.
Tell me honestly what 27.5 and 29er bikes have you owned or ridden for a significant amount of time?
"why, I've crashed maybe two or three times in the last couple of years?"
Judging by your videos you can hardly ride a bike. It doesn't look as though you're in any position to be critiquing wheel sizes
"upset about the size of a bike wheel."
Hilarious
29er makes a good XC/trail bike... 26" makes a good DJ, and free ride bike. You can't argue that different wheels change the characteristics of a bike and 26" is not the best for all situations. Or maybe you can (palm to face).
If it was a light trail bike (and the plus size option points to this) then why has it got a steep HA?
But if its a XC / marathon race bike why has it got a plus size tyre option.
If it were a degree slacker then it would make sence.
Im looking forward to seeing Intense's responce to this....
This isn't much different to the 2013!!!! Intense Spider Comp Carbon set in 116mm travel mode.
(Apart for the unwanted plus size tyres of course)
***edit*** sorry, was thinking of 650. Even that has a 65.5 HA now. I need to get with the times.
Its a trail bike now. And 68 is on the steeper side.
67-67.5 seems to be right for trail, 65.5-67 for smashing the downs....
All Im saying is it would fit the image better if it was a degree slacker...
27.5+ tires ride very, very differently than standard 27.5/650B. It is a whole different feel. They are essentially mini fat bike tires and feel that way.
No question they rip over everything more easily - and that immense grip means you can ride very fast - but that floating feeling takes away A LOT of the fun of trail bikes. The feeling of the trail is largely lost.
They each have their place. I'm not knocking 27.5+ but after trying them I quickly went back to "normal" tires.
I can't imagine 27.5+ would ever replace 27.5/650b tires.
you love to split a hair don't you.....