For this edition of Ask Us Anything, Schwalbe Procore...It's only been in more recent times that reliable tubeless tire setups have become the rule rather than the exception, but it appears as though the next step in tire and rim technology, along with the possible advantage that it could provide riders, could be right in front of us. I'm talking about Schwalbe's dual chamber Procore system that, somewhat ironically, reintroduces a tube into the equation. It employs a small volume, high-pressure tube with a bead attached around its diameter that's installed inside of a large volume tubeless tire. The small volume tube is run at a high pressure, but the tire itself is only pumped to between just 10 and 20 PSI.
How does it work and what are the possible advantages of using the system? The special tube works to hold the tire onto the rim, so the chances of pulling a bead off are greatly reduced to zero, and it also protects the tire from being pinched from sharp, hard impacts. Greatly improved traction is like probably the first thing what comes to mind first, but there's another, less obvious reason that Procore could be the next big thing: better suspension performance. Jo Klieber, Syntace founder and one of the developers of the system,
explained to us that when he added the highly pressurized tube to the inside the tire, the spring rate of the tire would ramp up quicker when the two began to compress in unison and thus would activate the suspension in a more seamless and gradual manner. If successful, the dual chamber system could allow the rider to use lower pressures and at the same time force the suspension and tire to react as a single unit to small bumps.
There are two provisos here, though: first, we've only just now began to test the system, so the jury is still out as to if it is worth the weight gain over a standard tubeless setup. And second, it's certainly more complicated than what riders are used to having to deal with. Most of us can repair a flat, change a tire, and set up a common tubeless system, but there are more components to Procore and a more involved assembly process required. Questions remain, and that's why we have Schwalbe here to answer them, including: Markus Hachmeyer - Head of Product Management, Michael Kull - Marketing and Race Support Manager, Steffi Marth - Brand Ambassador and World Cup racer and Jeff Clarkson - North American OEM Sales.
The Panel
Markus Hachmeyer - Head of Product Management
Years @ Schwalbe: 19
Hometown: Wiehl, Germany
Favourite tire: Magic Mary SnakeSkin TLE TSC with Procore
Favourite Terrain: Whatever is the most fun to ride
Riding Style: Fast, smooth and technical
Michael Kull - Marketing and Race Support Manager, MTB
Years @ Schwalbe: 10
Hometown: Nümbrecht, Germany
Favourite tire: Magic Mary (a little special something with a Firstride label on) with Procore and 1.1 bar
Favourite Terrain: trailparks in the UK and alpine riding
Riding Style: fast and loose over the rough stuff
Steffi Marth - Brand Ambassador and World Cup Racer
Title: Team Rider
Years @ Schwalbe: 7
Hometown: Plessa near Dresden in Germany
Favourite tire: Magic Mary
Favourite Terrain: Loamy forest
Riding Style: BMX-Downhill Crossover
Jeff Clarkson - North America OEM Sales
Years @ Schwalbe: 10
Hometown: Victoria, BC
Favourite tire: Hans Dampf
Favourite Terrain: steep roots and rocks
Riding Style: fast and loose over the rough stuff
How ‘Ask Us Anything' Works:Starting at
10:00 AM PST/6:00 PM BST on Wednesday, June 3rd Schwalbe will have a go at answering your questions. Sometimes your answer will pop up in a few seconds; others may take a while, as they will be busy responding to the flood of questions. Everyone who posts a question, large or small, will be taken seriously. To make the process as efficient as possible, try to follow these simple guidelines:
•
Keep your questions relative. While this is an 'Ask Me Anything' session, the concentration is on Procore. Questions related to this are encouraged, but still feel free to ask whatever pressing queries you may have.
•
Stay focused. Try to keep your questions on one topic if possible. You can always ask about another item later.
• Try to keep your questions to about
100 words.
•
Ask Us Anything is a service to PB readers who are seeking helpful information, not a forum to broadcast opinions or grievances. If you do have a negative issue that you want to ask about, no worries, just keep your complaints relevant and in the context of a question so that it can be addressed in a productive manner.
•
Use propping to acknowledge good - or not so good - questions. Bump them up or down to where they belong.
As for wear life i can get bike tires that last thousands of kms, but those are meant for a different type of riding. An F1 cars tires last 200km and f*cking expensive. My mtb or road bikes tires last a hell of a lot longer thab that, and they are high end race tires.
Im not saying riding is cheap, but what I am saying is dont complain about the price of high end parts when you can easily access less expensive options. Riding is a lot more accessable than anything competitive with a motor. If you dont like paying for bike parts, play soccer.
I would be pretty damned if I buy a tire with that low quality
I understand you got problems and not blaming you.
Schwalbe makes the only MTB tires I have encountered in 30 years of riding where knobs tear *all around* the base before there is significant wear or damage to any other part of the tread.
I had a set of their top-of-the-line Ultremo road tires that COMPLETELY DELAMINATED.
They blamed that one on a subcontractor who supplied the "breaker belt" for the tire.
I'm not interested in Scwalbe's excuses, they're *recidivists* who repeatedly release self-desctructing tires: there is simply no excuse for this.
Their quality is crap, their products are unsafe, and I wouldn't ride them if you gave them to me.
Seriously riders, there are too many companies out there that produce reliable products, vote for them with your dollars & let Schwalbe go the way of Pontiac.
Schwalbe fandom is a bizarre cult like Scientology: every apologetic defense of the brand here on PB or out on the trail starts with:
"it sucks that they fail so much faster than anything else, but..."
No "buts": bad quality = bad tire.
Negprop me all you want, it's an established fact that Schwalbe rubber fails & tears where quality manufacturers like Maxxis, Specialized & Continental do not.
Be codependent, let them abuse your pocketbook, if masochism brings you joy, so be it.
I live in Southern California, Ventura County, a rocky, dry, rough hell hole compared to many other mtb destinations. No other casings last like the Super Gravity. No other tires grip and feel so consistent as my Magic Mary's. I'm no professional but I consider myself to be an advanced rider and I never get premature tire ware. My brother ran his Magic Mary's F/R for 500mi, smoked rear but the front still had plenty of tread left. Two thumbs up to Schwalbe. Make Nobby Nic in a SG casing so I can feel comfortable running tubeless on my trail bike!
i am currently on Maxxis' HRII 60a Exo casing for 650b. they work like a dream out here in SoCal. and you need to understand, in the dirt out here, it isn't about the tacky-ness so much as the tread and nobb design. if your shoulder nobbs are top high they'll fold on you in the corners, if your center nobbs are too low they won't break through the loose and can't find the hard underneath. its a very different type of dirt than what you guys have in canada. and thats what i was trying to say, a lot of tire comapnies make tires for NZ or Canada or Europe, and not for dirty dusty South West U.S. or Mexico or latin america. even italy has the dirt and dust in spots.
Not sure what to make of the "where can you rip knobs off in the uk" comment. What do you imagine our trails to be like? Apart from wet obviously
how does mud ruin nobbs? or do you grab your brakes over every feature on the trails? hahaha.
i mean fort bill with all its slick rock, that i could understand eating up your tread due to braking and the shear amount of rocks in the area, but wet trails i can't see being too harsh on tires, but idk, i've never had the chance to ride in the U.K.
1. lower tire pressure equals more traction
2. Internal chamber helps to prevent pinch flats
3. dual chamber adds more progression to your tires' shock absorption properties.
Some of the first articles I read about Procore said it was developed for reason number 3 (Suspension properties). Do you still believe this is the biggest advantage, or have the increased traction and reduced risk of flatting surpassed your original reason?
Why are World Cup racers running them.. Less chance of a flat tire, or do they think the suspension characteristic make them faster down the hill?
So 1) and 2) are the biggest advantage and suspension characteristic helps to achieve 2).
Of course rim protection is a very important Procore property as well.
Exactly how did Schwalbe resolve this issue? What was the identified reason for the failures? I'm not convinced it was a simple QA issue, as there were simply too many instances of the same type of failure in the global market. Schwalbe tires are mega expensive, and to buy them from overseas markets because of a lack of local (south african) availability only for them to fail after a very short period of usage represents a rubbish value proposition. A lot buyer confidence is lost due to this sort of situation,and the least that Schwalbe could do is offer a sufficiently detailed explanation as to why the failures actually occured, and how this was resolved.
I know this is quality and a racing product, but for the average Joe is very expensive, yet something that most will have great advantages with it.
Thanks!
Haha better get to work!
BTW, Magic Mary is hands down the best front tire out there. Just facking great.
But I really want to try the rock razor, hans dampf and magic mary. They inflate really wide when they're tubeless and for the grip on offer they roll pretty fast too.
But please remember inventions like tubeless, snake skin, super gravity, latex based sealant etc.
With Procore we had the chance to make a very big step ahead and we are sure it will have significant influence on the bike world.
Yes, racers still risk punctures as they prefer light wheels. But choosing bike components for racing is always like searching for the best individual compromise.
Procore will make life easier for lots of racers in future.
translate.google.co.uk/?ie=UTF-8&hl=de&client=tw-ob#en/de/Schwalbe
Will procore produce less tyre squirm? Although a lighter casing can be used won't the new limiting psi factor just become how much squirm you can deal with?
Front: 22 psi / 1,52 Bar
Rear: 26 psi / 1,79 Bar
So rather than take different tyres to a race. With dodgy weather, it'll be different wheelset with tyres allready installed?
It appears as though we are being somewhat more restricted than the rest of the world no?
Still didn't answer my question of how are the rest of the world able to manage but not us?
I see the development of a lightweight mousse system (or even tire balls) for dh racing. 100% flat proof. Or, at least a better bead/rim interface that is much more robust than what is currently available. Call it a downhill "standard" if you will. What do you think about looking into a mousse or some other flat eliminating technology?
Always make sure the tire bead is in the middle of the rim!
That’s not to say I am against the use of Schwalbe tyres, I am just curious if you’re going to limit your market?
First off, the Tubliss system utilizes two valves, one for each chamber, to inflate the system requiring multiple valve holes drilled in the rim. With rims constructed of multiple materials in the mountain bike industry, Carbon, Aluminum, and Magnesium just to name a few, Schwalbe designed the PROCORE system to use only one valve. The valve is a special patented two-way valve on the tube to inflate the two chambers. The upper part of the valve is a selector; with a simple turn you select the chamber into which the air is to be pumped.
The second major difference is the PROCORE AIR GUIDE. Not only does this specially designed piece allow air to easily fill the outer chamber, it is constructed of an extremely flexible material eliminating a hard spot in the tire. Tire sealant and latex do not stick to this special material eliminating the need for constant cleaning.
My question was actually: Will be making the Procore compatible with / available for other tyre brands?
Do you suggest a procore setup for someone like myself looking to get a more bullet proof setup for 29er wheels as super thick tubes and beefy tires aren't an option (only 26 and 27.5) to enhance durability?
Think a full Maxxis DH tude for a tenner does the job better and prods weighs about the same.
Full suspension is to mountain bike frames as ProCore is to ________.
answer: Tires
There's many lots of great innovation in mountain biking but I think this is the biggest single step forward in at least the past 10 years. Can't wait. Thank you!
So do you see ProCore benefiting any XC/AM riders in local trails, etc? I run snakeskin which seems to have reduced my flats, but RR and NN still have relatively thin carcus, so do you see ProCore being a solution that XC riders would use? Seems to counter the performance/weight benefits, but still interested in your answer. Thank You!
"Vorbestellung möglich. Artikel ist von uns beim Lieferanten bestellt." One I asked the shop when can they can send me the set, they said that they do not know since the wholesaler does not know when the set would be available since Schwalbe is having difficulties with producing the valve.
So maybe You could tell me when can I expect the parcel.
Cheers.
by changing to a new nobby nic or changing to a slower magic mary , are you guys going to release a ramped tyre in the future , maybe a ramped HD?
or could i use the procore in a new nobby nic and make it grip more with lower pressures?
thanks
The new Nobby Nic is not available in Vertstar for this reason and I would suggest possibly looking at the above compound options, however one point to make, the new Nobby Nic is a grippier tyre than the Hans Dampf.
Nobby Nic and others can be used with Procore as well improving tire performance drastically.
i have had a few email conversations with Felix from Schwalbe in Germany about the wear rate and he said that before august last year there had been some problems , but assured me that after that date the newer HD tyres would be ok as you changed the compoun/makeup slightly....
i was let to think that only a dan or mary was grippier than an HD , so what you say is that the new nobby nic is faster rolling and grippier than a HD?
Just wanted to know if other, more economical versions of Procore will be developed in the future? Some of us are racers and some of us are just regular guys who like to ride whenever life (and time and $$) allows us to.
Thanks and please continue w/ developing great tires. Love the Nobby Nic that I have and the Hans Dampf that I tried!
Now on 3 bikes I have 1 magic mary and 4 hans dampf. Waiting for the magic mary 27,5" to be available again in the shops to go full schwalbe!
Ah yes for sure I'm waiting for the procore too, I will need 3 of them ahah.. Will it be possible to buy just some parts of the kit? Let's say I want the procore on just one wheel, will I be able to get the tube, Procore and the airguide for just one wheel?
Thanks
Also, with being compatable with all tubeless tires, will it work and seal with non tubeless tires? If I have a non-tubeless tire setup on my bike tubeless, will I be able to use procore without it being affected? (sealing properties of the tire)
Plus availability of spares? New valves, New inner ect. Nothing listed as of yet?
Also on tread patterns why are your out side knobbles facing outwards when everyone else in the industry toes the nobbles in? This seems illogical as it means your turning on a corner of nobble instead of flat edge? (again asked two separate reps, were promised an answer and nothing)
Spares: All spares are listed on our website including article numbers: www.schwalbe.com/en/schwalbe-procore.html
U-Block tread design: We positioned these special U-shaped lugs, against the rotation direction - and so turned on its head the traditional thinking that lugs must run in the driving direction. We began by using U-blocks on our Downhill tires, with the Nobby Nic they worked satisfactorily. The U-shape of the lugs and the newly conceived lay-out arrangement provides even more grip in curves. Every tire wants to move outward in a curve, but with their forward facing, half-open serrations U-blocks fight against it. Less under-steer, more stability – restraint of curve forces.
would be nive no have a tire like for normal riding like the muddy was
Is there a possibility that Schwalbe could make much tougher rear specific tire compounds so that the rear could last as long as the front especially for riders that do hundreds of kilometers a week?
Now. I must say that I'm hugely disappointed about the decision (seemingly supported by Schwalbe) of the UK distributors to only warranty procore fitted by approved centres. This feels like a closed shop, and is also insulting to UK users as it suggests that we are not intelligent enough to do it ourselves (and the rest of the world are). I would suggest finding another UK distributor; there are plenty around.
Off topic; I'd also like to ask if the nobby nics suffer the same degradation issues that the HDs did (as suffered by most of us it seems). Mine went in the bin I'm afraid; they just were not up to the task. The nobby nics look a good tyre, but I'm not spending all that lovely money on more bin fodder.
What does pro core ' feel like ' to ride
Any noticeable difference?
Procore on a whole does feel different to ride at first as you will likely be running a lower pressure than you are used to but like changing anything on your bicycle after a while it becomes the norm, what you will notice is an increase in grip, especially cornering speeds.
Thansk
They are out of stock for ages now!
see this for a proper set-up and tips and tricks: www.ridemonkey.com/threads/ghetto-tubeless-conversion-diy-tips-and-tricks.240026
Its not available in any shops, the distributor has no stock and its nowhere to be found online?
are you having issues?
Why is there a delay?
And to echo others, what is the WIDEST rim that can be used, 35? 40? 50 mm?
Thanks!
Cheers!
Its been on back order for seven months in Alberta CA?
its 2 sp00ky 4 m3 to decide!
Also 15 psi is that not a bit draggy?
Cheers
A new sidewall monofilament fabric brings three advantages over the previous SnakeSkin fabric: Even better cut resistance, increased protection and most importantly it allows an extremely easy Tubeless conversion. The use of liquid sealant is necessary, but otherwise installation is just as easy as with real Tubeless tires. Time consuming conversion requiring intensive shaking and frequent re-inflation is no longer needed with Tubeless Easy. Tubeless Easy replaces both the previous Tubeless (UST) and Tubeless Ready versions.
I have to say I prefered the look of the old Snakeskin sidewall over the new, looks wise. I'm not able to find a suitable rear Schwalbe tyre to use on my Stanton Switchback with the same Snakeskin pattern on as my front Magic Mary so I can match them up. Maybe I just have bad OCD..
I had to go with the new Nobby Nic in the 2.25 width which of course has the new snakeskin sidewall.
Unfortunately I nearly had to consider switching tyre brands to get something that will fit and match up front and rear. The only other option is to go new Nobby Nic front 2.35 and rear 2.25.
Even the Hans Dampf 2.35 is the same, too wide for my frame. You don't make a Hans Dampf 2.25 in Pacestar either.
P.S. Ich lerne deutsch auf dem gymnasium.